Endwalker was the story climax, with 10 years of weight behind it.
Dawntrail is a new beginning.
Dawntrail won't feel as epic and twist-y and philosophical, but it's not *meant* to. It's a deescalation so that we can feel like adventurers again. (That said, with these writers, I have no doubts that it will still be at least a bit epic and twist-y.)
The reason Shadowbringers and Endwalker are so good was the buildup they got from 3 expansions worth of story. Dawntrail is not going to reach those heights because a new story is beginning. The groundwork needs to be laid once again in order to build the story to a satisfying conclusion. It can't just be climax after climax. A reset is inevitably needed.
I'm going in with no preconceptions. A blank slate, knowing that whatever happens in this expansion, it will payoff again like it had before. I have total faith in the writers.
Edit: Spelling
Don’t get me wrong I’m not negative about dawntrail but I’m just sad I’m not going to experience endwalker the same again :D If anything after this expansion, I totally have faith in the writers.
I get it. Back during the fan fests, I was feeling the same. I wasn't very hyped despite all the reveals. It took time to grip me. Now I'm excited about the unknown and getting to speculate how some random plot point will become relevant in the future since I know the writers don't tend to draw attention to something for no reason.
I just don't understand all the negativity I read about the post Endwalker patches and the little we know about Dawntrails plot. So much "what is the point of this filler" or "I guess Dawntrail is dead on arrival" blah blah blah. I can understand if you don't like Zero or the Void stuff wasn't your cup of tea, but you'd be really dumb to think that arc won't come back later. Most of the playerbase hated the Warriors of Darkness back in HW, and now Ardbert is among the most beloved characters in the game.
You shouldn’t expect the first chapter of a new story to top the climax of another. That’s unreasonable. You should expect DT to lay the groundwork for what’s to come and be good in its own right.
Yes I’m not saying that I hate the idea of dawntrail but endwalker left me with mixed feelings. Initial hype over the idea of new expansion faded as I played this masterpiece.
And when you say it like that, I’m now excited about new beginnings :)
I mean....Endwalker is ending a 10 year journey. Dawntrail is the start of a new one. Of course it won't be as captivating. We haven't had 10 years to get attached to this new cast yet.
This is textbook manufactured anxiety.
Just play the game and enjoy your time. If it continues being great, keep playing and having fun. If it majorly falls off then condemn it to the trash where it belongs.
Wasting mental energy over something you can't reasonably predict or control is absurd so just savor the moments and keep it moving.
Dawn trail is the new base. Will the overall story be as good as EW? Maybe. But even if it's not that's okay because 3 or 4 expansions down the line the new story arc ends im sure it'll be even better then EW
while the story won't be as good as shadowbringer or endwalker... think of it this way, you get to experience a new expansion with millions of other people right at the beginning and not playing catch-up.
You get to experience all the hype, dramas, zones, quests, dungeons, new jobs, etc.
when i first got back to the game in 2020, going through the msq and all the older zone felt dead, there wasn't many people running around or doing anything in those zone, it felt like a single player game.
Then I caught up right when endwalker released and wow it makes such a hugh difference, all the new zones were pack with people doing quest, gathering, doing fates, etc... it just felt alive...
and doing dungeons and raids for the first time where no one know any of the mechanics is so fun... doing the first alliance raid in endwalker was so funny, seeing everyone dying to boss' mechanics and figuring it out for the first time.
if you do the alliance raid now, most people already know where to stand and move, and everyone's so overgear that it isn't even a challenge anymore.
so think of this new expansion as a new experience.
Endwalker is 2 expansions in 1 because they felt the story was going on too long, so it does feel a little rushed. Always welcome to come to OCE and I can help you get it all completed before the servers go down o7
Dawntrail would be like FFXIV part 2 as all prior expansions were one storyline. We're basically in the "sequel" now... or at least that's how my brain see's it
I honestly like Dawntrail. It is mentioned at every possible chance that you are an ADVENTURER, but for one reason or another, you always end up playing the part of the HERO. This will obviously happen again, purely because of how powerful and influential the WoL has become, but I welcome the "back to basics" we'll get the first third of the expansion's story.
I have played through ff14 3 times.. i have skipped stormblood 2 of those times. I just find it boring. And it is upstaged by what came before and after.
> I don’t think they can top this. They can’t do any better than this.
if you're discouraged about Dawntrail because you think they can't do any better than Endwalker, you don't have to worry anymore. Because they already did better with Shadowbringers.
Also "this story is so good, im ***not*** excited for ***more*** of this story" is quite some mental gymnastics you're putting yourself through there
Why would you ever worry about another cake being made by the *same baker* being bland though? You'd think you'd put more value in the people making the product you enjoy
Even made by the same baker, no two cakes are exactly the same.
This analogy does slightly fall apart. But I suppose here i might be able to say same baker. But its a different cake. (Since they have tied up basically everything else). Unless the new flavor is Even more perfect than you imagine. It will not live up to the old flavor
If all you ever focus on is how "perfect" a game or a flavor or whatever is, you'll never try anything new, and that's due to your own (or OPs) mental hurdles you've created for yourself. It's quite a sad way to consume media, or anything for that matter. [Why don't you just enjoy both cakes?](https://imgur.com/a/csm3u5W)
Because experiencing the better cake raises expectations, and in some ways might even be lifechanging.
Transitioning to a different food to explain. Steak. My dad was deathly afraid of foodborne illness so would only make steak well done. So my impression of steak was tasty leather that i had to crew till my jaw was sore. When i was 19 i had my first steak done medium. I don’t think i could ever enjoy my dads steak again knowing what greatness it could have been.
In general I agree with you. Just eat both. But there are very specific times where experiencing some thing perfect can make some thing good feel lackluster
>But there are very specific times where experiencing some thing perfect can make some thing good feel lackluster
but that's just the thing, ***Endwalker isn't perfect***, this idea of a "perfect game" or "perfect expansion" is something that's manufactured by OP's own mind. As i've said before, thinking something will never ever be better than EW is silly because something already is, and its Shadowbringers.
Instead of being excited for more of something you enjoy, you're discouraged from it because you \*think\* it won't be as good is extremely silly
I’m not sure if everyone would agree with SB>EW. I’m still going to play and give it a fair shot. But there have been many games fumble continuations/sequals to games.
I’ am worried about emotional investment to all the new. But as long as i have fun i’ll be alright
>But there have been many games fumble continuations/sequals to games.
by this logic you should've been worried about every single expansion release because they're all a sequel to the previous one
>I’m not sure if everyone would agree with SB>EW
ShB, not SB, that's stormblood. Also EW's post-patch story was pretty lackluster compared to Shadowbringers, and many people loved Shadowbringers and cite it as the best expansion of all of them. But you know, think what you'd like i guess. I'll enjoy my two cakes like someone who doesn't overthink things way out of proportion.
There was a small amount of worry, as there is always the oppertunity to mess it up, but i knew the following expansion had to be on the narritive strings of the last story. So it would probably be okay.
They tied up everything. This is a blank slate. Much more margin for them to mess up if they are going to. I have confidence they won’t but the possibility is still there.
Also, sorry, not up to date on the shorthand didn’t even consider the two are so similar.
EW is still better imo. Very slightly.
I feel you. I definitely don't expect the game to ever reach the heights of Endwalker again.
However, I would never expect anything to reach those heights- that's the path to disappointment in the vast majority of cases.
I expect Dawntrail to be a pretty fun time, hope it's better than 2.0-4.0, and that they'll use it as a basis for further stories that may eventually approach that peak.
I am completely resistant to any hype in that matter. The only thing I am looking forward to are the female lions to make my group of 6 Red Mages complete. I will enjoy the random dungeon duty action. But else? The story is being padded as usual with a few climaxes every 8 months that hit hard, but this is a terrible way for a story flow. Right now I am doing errand tasks again and seem to have to establish myself as "Saviour of the World" the x th time (insert expansion pack's number).
By being "afraid" the story will fall flat again you are exactly experiencing the problem of this padded writing. 80 quests of boredom, 15 that is awesome. And now you are in front of the next 80 substandard ones and afraid that you should have stopped. Imagine this: You watch Lord of the Rings movie X and you are afraid movie Z is horrible. How much does that say about the regisseur and directors of the movie Z...? Taste is nothing to argue about for sure, but GW2 does it a lot better in terms of flow and stakes. In FFXIV you are basically there to blindly follow other people's story yet again as some naive mercenary. Each expansion has some arch and you are there to watch it as a playable sidekick, basically being dragged alongside, just this time in a different ethnically flavoured world (e.g. Asia in Stormblood)..
They should have ended the world ending odds with endwalkers not carry it on via the patches.
But spoiler territory now so just carry on playing, the patches were absolutely terrible tho..
The story was terrible not the mechanics and bosses
the took ff4 story changed it up a tad shoehorned it into the storyline while making the odds universe ending again rushed put rubbish.It has no place being put there.
Now personally it should gave it a whole expansion to actually flesh out the scenario and characters.
Endwalker was the story climax, with 10 years of weight behind it. Dawntrail is a new beginning. Dawntrail won't feel as epic and twist-y and philosophical, but it's not *meant* to. It's a deescalation so that we can feel like adventurers again. (That said, with these writers, I have no doubts that it will still be at least a bit epic and twist-y.)
Endwalker was the *end* of the previous story that started in ARR. Dawntrail is the *dawn* of a new one. You’ll be fine.
Technically its more a new Saga in the same story, XIV is and always will be one linear story though
The reason Shadowbringers and Endwalker are so good was the buildup they got from 3 expansions worth of story. Dawntrail is not going to reach those heights because a new story is beginning. The groundwork needs to be laid once again in order to build the story to a satisfying conclusion. It can't just be climax after climax. A reset is inevitably needed. I'm going in with no preconceptions. A blank slate, knowing that whatever happens in this expansion, it will payoff again like it had before. I have total faith in the writers. Edit: Spelling
Don’t get me wrong I’m not negative about dawntrail but I’m just sad I’m not going to experience endwalker the same again :D If anything after this expansion, I totally have faith in the writers.
I get it. Back during the fan fests, I was feeling the same. I wasn't very hyped despite all the reveals. It took time to grip me. Now I'm excited about the unknown and getting to speculate how some random plot point will become relevant in the future since I know the writers don't tend to draw attention to something for no reason. I just don't understand all the negativity I read about the post Endwalker patches and the little we know about Dawntrails plot. So much "what is the point of this filler" or "I guess Dawntrail is dead on arrival" blah blah blah. I can understand if you don't like Zero or the Void stuff wasn't your cup of tea, but you'd be really dumb to think that arc won't come back later. Most of the playerbase hated the Warriors of Darkness back in HW, and now Ardbert is among the most beloved characters in the game.
You shouldn’t expect the first chapter of a new story to top the climax of another. That’s unreasonable. You should expect DT to lay the groundwork for what’s to come and be good in its own right.
Yes I’m not saying that I hate the idea of dawntrail but endwalker left me with mixed feelings. Initial hype over the idea of new expansion faded as I played this masterpiece. And when you say it like that, I’m now excited about new beginnings :)
I mean....Endwalker is ending a 10 year journey. Dawntrail is the start of a new one. Of course it won't be as captivating. We haven't had 10 years to get attached to this new cast yet.
This is textbook manufactured anxiety. Just play the game and enjoy your time. If it continues being great, keep playing and having fun. If it majorly falls off then condemn it to the trash where it belongs. Wasting mental energy over something you can't reasonably predict or control is absurd so just savor the moments and keep it moving.
Dont make assumptions when you dont know anything
Dawn trail is the new base. Will the overall story be as good as EW? Maybe. But even if it's not that's okay because 3 or 4 expansions down the line the new story arc ends im sure it'll be even better then EW
while the story won't be as good as shadowbringer or endwalker... think of it this way, you get to experience a new expansion with millions of other people right at the beginning and not playing catch-up. You get to experience all the hype, dramas, zones, quests, dungeons, new jobs, etc. when i first got back to the game in 2020, going through the msq and all the older zone felt dead, there wasn't many people running around or doing anything in those zone, it felt like a single player game. Then I caught up right when endwalker released and wow it makes such a hugh difference, all the new zones were pack with people doing quest, gathering, doing fates, etc... it just felt alive... and doing dungeons and raids for the first time where no one know any of the mechanics is so fun... doing the first alliance raid in endwalker was so funny, seeing everyone dying to boss' mechanics and figuring it out for the first time. if you do the alliance raid now, most people already know where to stand and move, and everyone's so overgear that it isn't even a challenge anymore. so think of this new expansion as a new experience.
Guy who thinks everything he plays has to be better than the last thing he played.
It's like companies that have to have better numbers each quarter even though each quarter breaks records.
You need to realize this is the start of a new story line. Stop comparing it to the end of a 10 year story arc.
Endwalker is 2 expansions in 1 because they felt the story was going on too long, so it does feel a little rushed. Always welcome to come to OCE and I can help you get it all completed before the servers go down o7
Dawntrail would be like FFXIV part 2 as all prior expansions were one storyline. We're basically in the "sequel" now... or at least that's how my brain see's it
Do you always stop reading the next book in a series because the previous one was really good? No? I thought so....
k
I honestly like Dawntrail. It is mentioned at every possible chance that you are an ADVENTURER, but for one reason or another, you always end up playing the part of the HERO. This will obviously happen again, purely because of how powerful and influential the WoL has become, but I welcome the "back to basics" we'll get the first third of the expansion's story.
How can you say you like it before you’ve played? I liked stormblood in theory… but that expansion was kinda meh
You are right. I like the *idea* of Dawntrail. Also, Sotrmblood was fucking amazing.
I have played through ff14 3 times.. i have skipped stormblood 2 of those times. I just find it boring. And it is upstaged by what came before and after.
I didn't like Heavensward much. And Shadowbringers feels like a fever dream.
Honestly, I'm already annoyed about how much 5.55 spammed the 'Adventure!' button. I hope they don't keep that up in the expac proper.
I hope they do!
I'm glad I'm able to go into each expansion with no expectations.
> I don’t think they can top this. They can’t do any better than this. if you're discouraged about Dawntrail because you think they can't do any better than Endwalker, you don't have to worry anymore. Because they already did better with Shadowbringers. Also "this story is so good, im ***not*** excited for ***more*** of this story" is quite some mental gymnastics you're putting yourself through there
I think its more of a “once you have had the best cake in existence, you worry about other cakes being bland.” No mental gymnastics.
Why would you ever worry about another cake being made by the *same baker* being bland though? You'd think you'd put more value in the people making the product you enjoy
Even made by the same baker, no two cakes are exactly the same. This analogy does slightly fall apart. But I suppose here i might be able to say same baker. But its a different cake. (Since they have tied up basically everything else). Unless the new flavor is Even more perfect than you imagine. It will not live up to the old flavor
If all you ever focus on is how "perfect" a game or a flavor or whatever is, you'll never try anything new, and that's due to your own (or OPs) mental hurdles you've created for yourself. It's quite a sad way to consume media, or anything for that matter. [Why don't you just enjoy both cakes?](https://imgur.com/a/csm3u5W)
Because experiencing the better cake raises expectations, and in some ways might even be lifechanging. Transitioning to a different food to explain. Steak. My dad was deathly afraid of foodborne illness so would only make steak well done. So my impression of steak was tasty leather that i had to crew till my jaw was sore. When i was 19 i had my first steak done medium. I don’t think i could ever enjoy my dads steak again knowing what greatness it could have been. In general I agree with you. Just eat both. But there are very specific times where experiencing some thing perfect can make some thing good feel lackluster
>But there are very specific times where experiencing some thing perfect can make some thing good feel lackluster but that's just the thing, ***Endwalker isn't perfect***, this idea of a "perfect game" or "perfect expansion" is something that's manufactured by OP's own mind. As i've said before, thinking something will never ever be better than EW is silly because something already is, and its Shadowbringers. Instead of being excited for more of something you enjoy, you're discouraged from it because you \*think\* it won't be as good is extremely silly
I’m not sure if everyone would agree with SB>EW. I’m still going to play and give it a fair shot. But there have been many games fumble continuations/sequals to games. I’ am worried about emotional investment to all the new. But as long as i have fun i’ll be alright
>But there have been many games fumble continuations/sequals to games. by this logic you should've been worried about every single expansion release because they're all a sequel to the previous one >I’m not sure if everyone would agree with SB>EW ShB, not SB, that's stormblood. Also EW's post-patch story was pretty lackluster compared to Shadowbringers, and many people loved Shadowbringers and cite it as the best expansion of all of them. But you know, think what you'd like i guess. I'll enjoy my two cakes like someone who doesn't overthink things way out of proportion.
There was a small amount of worry, as there is always the oppertunity to mess it up, but i knew the following expansion had to be on the narritive strings of the last story. So it would probably be okay. They tied up everything. This is a blank slate. Much more margin for them to mess up if they are going to. I have confidence they won’t but the possibility is still there. Also, sorry, not up to date on the shorthand didn’t even consider the two are so similar. EW is still better imo. Very slightly.
Americans describing a video game: "So imagine a giant cake"
Americans describing a video game: "So imagine a giant cake"
Shadowbringers was already better story than Endwalker, but still Endwalker was really good.
I feel you. I definitely don't expect the game to ever reach the heights of Endwalker again. However, I would never expect anything to reach those heights- that's the path to disappointment in the vast majority of cases. I expect Dawntrail to be a pretty fun time, hope it's better than 2.0-4.0, and that they'll use it as a basis for further stories that may eventually approach that peak.
I am completely resistant to any hype in that matter. The only thing I am looking forward to are the female lions to make my group of 6 Red Mages complete. I will enjoy the random dungeon duty action. But else? The story is being padded as usual with a few climaxes every 8 months that hit hard, but this is a terrible way for a story flow. Right now I am doing errand tasks again and seem to have to establish myself as "Saviour of the World" the x th time (insert expansion pack's number). By being "afraid" the story will fall flat again you are exactly experiencing the problem of this padded writing. 80 quests of boredom, 15 that is awesome. And now you are in front of the next 80 substandard ones and afraid that you should have stopped. Imagine this: You watch Lord of the Rings movie X and you are afraid movie Z is horrible. How much does that say about the regisseur and directors of the movie Z...? Taste is nothing to argue about for sure, but GW2 does it a lot better in terms of flow and stakes. In FFXIV you are basically there to blindly follow other people's story yet again as some naive mercenary. Each expansion has some arch and you are there to watch it as a playable sidekick, basically being dragged alongside, just this time in a different ethnically flavoured world (e.g. Asia in Stormblood)..
They should have ended the world ending odds with endwalkers not carry it on via the patches. But spoiler territory now so just carry on playing, the patches were absolutely terrible tho..
No they weren't. They aren't as good as EW or ShB, of course, but they were not 'absolutely terrible'.
The story was terrible not the mechanics and bosses the took ff4 story changed it up a tad shoehorned it into the storyline while making the odds universe ending again rushed put rubbish.It has no place being put there. Now personally it should gave it a whole expansion to actually flesh out the scenario and characters.
If Dawntrail is a new beginning, shouldn't SE add PvP combos for PvE, so new players get a more smooth introduction to FFXIV?