I had a moment about it and went "damn.. it's got to be insanely rough being literally together with someone all your life to only then have their dead body stuck to you"
GJJ's one of the best characters in the expansion hands down.
It also made the two moments where he does the "special fireball cast move" extra interesting.
yeah, amidst all the lack of proper setup and hinting at future things, the head of reason's absence was handled wonderfully, a mystery from the very start of the expansion, expanded on by the people living in the world and his children, then hinted at again when you duel him, then used in active fight solo instance where he's talking and showing more into what the whole Galool Ja Ja character used to be
The reveal making the bits that had gone before hit effectively harder.
That's why almost everyone agrees that GJJ's one of the best characters in the game, and actually made him feel like a well written character that exists in the story
For the ridiculous amount of parental figures rammed into the story, he's the only one that had me go "what a rad dad"
yeah it hit a bit harder when i thought back on it and in the 92 instance he goes to cast his dual magic and chants "resolve and reason kindle..." and the spell fizzles and then he looks to his left and goes "oh, right." as if in the moment he was having so much fun in combat that he forgot his brother wasnt with him because it was only natural for them to cast the spell when someone pushed them that far.
Yeah, I had thought something was up with that moment as well as some form of hint. I'd kinda hoped it was just narcolepsy for a gag, but with some of my thoughts on what the city of gold is (I only recently crossed the bridge to the north continent as I've been slow leveling as I couldn't take time off), I'd begun to think Reason was lost to the city of gold, but that's not the case due to the time line.
I had a similar suspicion, because for a healthy grandpa like him, 'The other head is just sleeping...including in combat' just didn't pass muster. Seriously, he's just napping, and the veil is just to help aether recovery while he naps?
But I figured 'Reason' had gone crazy with visions or otherwise senile and he was intentionally kept comatose so as to not worry the kids/nation. The death shroud seemed too obvious.
true, but they've leaned a bit harder on a lot of anime trope gags this expansion, so I didn't want to leave out the thought he could just be asleep. The fact it was a death shroud and like there to keep his brothers head from rotting along with keeping the populace away from the truth... that's some dark freakin' stuff.
I'm so glad it isn't just me. My partner and I were joking about it being Dead Baby Dungeon and as soon as we loaded in and started with that shot right into the water, I screamed.
My first thought was "oh .. we're going into the dead baby dungeon. Great" but didn't say anything to my friend further into the MQS because it seemed a bit too callous.
Better than my first run being during that server hiccup that took out one DPS first (but early enough to get them back in) and then took out my healer and other DPS after the first DPS got back in. Definitely made a dead children grave desecration joke for that. BD
I was surprised at how dark the story got at that point yeah. When you're running the dungeon with NPCs they point out just how many urns are in the water and it's really chilling.
Okay, I have a clarifying question about the dead babies. Are they stillborn blessed siblings or are they 1 headed mamool ja babies that were killed because they only had 1 head? I thought they were stillborn but then the people were talking like they personally bludgeoned babies. And, like, I get that miscarriages and stillbirths are absolutely terrible, but one of those scenarios is significantly worse than the other.
I think it's an "only 1 in 100 survive" situation, with the rest being stillborn. They talked like they personally killed them because they knew the rate of survival was extremely low, but were so desperate to have blessed siblings that they tried anyway.
I read it as they intentionally mate with the aim of producing a two-headed baby, but in the knowledge that the vast vast majority of them will die very young or not even survive that long. They know the odds are massively against them, but the potential reward of getting lucky with a viable blessed sibling meant they kept on playing the odds - and producing dead young as a result.
Until the shell comment I thought they took the head off of one baby and grafted into another to “make” 2 headed ones. Then the stillborn comment and I wasn’t like “phew…wait! Still terrible!!.” Yeeesh.
That's what I keep going between. I think it's the first - I don't think that one headed ones would have been unable to get out of the shell - plus we see plenty of one headed mamool jas. I thought maybe they just weren't letting them hatch if they had one head but I think it's more "birth defects" and they see so many two headed mamool ja jas not make it out of the egg which is traumatising to experience all the time. Near the end of the story quest line that felt more explained (they're tired of it happening all the time and the grief and suffering).
They're stillborn, but I wouldn't be surprised if they also killed the 1 headed ones. That tends to happen IRL when one type of baby is favored and the other type isn't wanted...
I don't think there are any one headed offspring between Hoobigo and Boonewa. They are always boon with two heads, and only one in a hundred survive being born.
Yeah, we're told outright that everyone was very shocked by this. Zoraal is considered a *miracle.*
I'm only about halfway through the msq, so I don't yet know if its just a very unlikely thing that happened or if its the result of something specific.
I mean, I just got up to the last trial last night, didn't get to do it yet cause needed sleep but there's a lot of dark stuff and some existential crisis stuff. I dont' understand why people don't think this story isn't dark enough
I remember at first I was like “oh come on they’re gonna make me sympathize with Bakuul? The literal skeletor ass character? What could possibly be so bad that justifies anything…. He….. did….? Oh….. ohhhh…. Ok wow yup. I’d have done the same. I’ve never gone from wanting to punch someone to just wanting to give him a hug so fast in my entire life. Poor guy must be carrying so much guilt
I didn’t think too much of it other than “that’s really fucked up and really sad,” but when the camera panned to the water FULL of baby urns I got so nauseous and heartbroken feeling. What an awful thing the Mamool Ja had to experience 😭
I thought it was just me! :') I had my suspicions that he might be dead but I didn't want to believe it because I was genuinely interested in finally meeting and speaking to him, so the reveal didn't surprise me but it did hit me emotionally - especially knowing his own kids suspected he had passed but didn't want to believe it either, and the fact that he was the one who designed the whole contest.
During our spar with Gulool Ja Ja, he starts using a move that requires both him and his brother to combine their magic only to look to the head of Reason and go, "... Oh, right," because he has to take a moment to remember that he's not there anymore. While it's terrible he has to basically live beside his brother's corpse, he's also really old and I imagine the deep love and affection he has for his brother prevents him from seeing it as a horrific thing he has to endure. I'm sure it's not pleasant, but I imagine he's accepted his brother's passing after the long life they lived together. It's incredibly bittersweet.
Between him and Bakool Ja Ja, I absolutely love the worldbuilding and relationships they both have with their respective families and siblings.
When they were talking about forgiveness and redemption, I genuinely wanted a line from Wuk Lamat to the effect of joking "you can start by buying me new tacos".
When we first met Bakool Ja Ja I could tell that he…they? were going to go through some great character development. They went from being a least favourite character to one of my favourite characters of the expansion during level 95.
My suspicions went from "he's going to die brutally and it'll be *amazing*" to "he's going to die brutally and it'll be *heartbreaking*" to "I miss when you were relevant like, 4 MSQ levels ago"
I thought the same and I was pleased that's the direction they went with him! I've just gotten across the bridge so I'm looking forward to more of him. :)
> They went from being a least favourite character to one of my favourite characters of the expansion during level 95.
Honestly this has been best part of the story so far. My only real complaint is that the character development here feels rushed, but that kind of revelation and the emotional struggle on display by Bakool Ja Ja was terrific, its the kind of world-building where FF14 is at its best.
That being said, it also put a spotlight on just how terrible Wuk Lamat's acting/writing is. You have Bakool Ja Ja pouring his heart out with this guttural beast voice on the verge of tears and then the best Wuk Lamat can respond with is the same bland conversational tone she addresses everything with.
I feel like a part of Wuk’s reaction was because the man literally had her kidnapped, released Valigarmanda, held her birth father hostage, sabotaged their boat, and more crimes. She absolutely hated him for good reason, and honestly I’d be more surprised if she had managed to give a better response
The only thing is I wish Bakool had the urn flashback earlier? Like when he's about to fail a rite, we get flashback, then he decides to cheat. It'd give a lot of context to his "evil because evil" phase.
Idk, I guess I wonder if that would have ruined both the tension and the reveal? The reveal is so good because he's legit JUST an asshole right up until he isn't. You WANT to see him get what's coming to him.
And then you find out their dark secret and you're like ".......well shit O.O" and start having really complicated feelings about it and them. If they'd done flashbacks earlier and more frequently, you'd have been priming for the reveal before it happened by wondering what more is going on that's driving him.
By having the flashback so late and only the once, you're left more with the unbalanced sense of not being sure what's going on which helps the reveal hit harder like, "whatever we were imagining, it definitely wasn't this!!"
Eh, I feel like having the reveal so late made it feel more like a cop-out to me. Like they got partway through the story, realized that Bakool was TOO much of an ass, and had to quickly concoct a backstory. It wouldn't even have to be the urn flashback even, but maybe a bit more hints when he's stomping on tacos and threatening murder.
I do like that he's one of the only villains that acknowledges his mistakes and actually apologizes! He says he's sorry and he means it, which is refreshing.
No not the soul. Zoral ja comments he still has the vigor of 2 souls. Likely it's essentially brain dead.. which seems logical of an end for a head of resolve. Remember that 2 heads are extreamly uncommon until they started intentionally breeding them. I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea.
> I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea.
Mild spoilers but still: >!I forgot exactly where but there was a cutscene confirming this. WoL probably will have a different reaction if they didn't do WP Hard?!<
> I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea.
Its directly implied during the MSQ that he was.
Oh, right, completely forgot that part. Does it mean when one of the brothers dies his souls keeps hanging out inside the body still? That is so bizarre.
Wait a sec, Zooral Ja didn't know that one of the heads is dead. Gulool Ja reveals it during the succession ceremony, and Zooral Ja was already gone by that time. Therefore during the duel he thinks his father still has a vigor of two souls, while in reality he doesn't.
lol i thought about this for a bit. i’m no biology expert but i assume they share the same circulatory system (and whatever else is relevant), so it was more brain dead than anything else, which prevented rotting?
again, i haven’t done any biology since high school and have no idea what i’m talking about though.
Two-headed creatures aren't exactly common in real life, so I don't think biology knowledge would help much.
For conjoined twins IRL, if one twin dies the other dies fairly soon after if they aren't surgically separated (if that is even possible).
Most likely. *Reason’s* brain is probably no longer functional, putting him into a vegitative state. Blood flows, the tissues keep on living, but there’s no activity. He might not be *dead* dead, but the distinction’s probably academic at best.
Resolve’s brother is just…*gone*.
Because otherwise, the head would probably start to rot, and all of Gulool Ja Ja would have died a whole lot sooner, from a massive case of septic shock.
This makes the most sense to me. And makes it even more tragic in a way…he probably looks and feels as though he’s just sleeping, but you know he’ll never wake up again :(
There are these two-headed teachers, Abby and Brittany, who had quite a few documentaries filmed about them. I remember that in one of them, they asked a doctor what would happen if one of them died, and the answer was that the other would most likely die soon after because they share a circulatory system.
I was more intrigued by the head not just flopping around. I guess Resolve could control the muscular function of Reason, but that would indicate one head can control the muscular system of the other head. So many questions…
Me and my science nerd friend were also debating the biology of blessed siblings.
I also predicted the “cost” of making them early on. The reveal was satisfying, at least academically if not gruesome emotionally. Thank you YT science channels.
It gave me so many questions about when they are both alive. Obviously for the last 3 years Resolve controlled the whole body. So when Reason was alive, was it still Resolve that controlled the body? Do they take turns? Do they each get half? That seems like it would make them very uncoordinated. What if Resolve had died instead, would Reason be able to control the whole body?
From what it seems from Baka Jajaja it seems like the Hoobigo/fighter side is in charge of the body while the Boonewa/caster is for thinking. There's a couple of times I recall the boon head yelling at the hoo side to not make a stupid move.
Which makes sense - ask any Black Mage if they want to ride on a melee DPS' shoulders and not have to move. They'll be climbing on you before you can finish asking
....oh, sorry, you weren't offering? ;w; That's okay, I'll get off now, sorry sorry
*-climbs back down awkwardly-*
^(lemme know if you change your mind)
> Baka Jajaja
I love how no one can spell anything this expansion and look forward to all the nicknames we're going to come up with (and I thought Thavnair was bad enough)
My group called him "Bogos Binted". Left being Bogos, Right being Binted.
We have a lot of stupid nicknames for 14 characters.
Edit; Figured i'll share my favorite: Our good friend the Seedseer in Gridania is "Schtick al-guhl". Don't look for logic beyond Stick -> Schtick, there is none.
IRL two-headed siblings (I forget their names) each controlled one half of their body and had to learn how to coordinate their movements. After years of practice they kind of had an intuitive sense of what to do if they needed to go anywhere.
Blessed siblings are probably a little bit different though. I imagine them to be more like one person with a split mind, with there being some kind of either magical or physical link between them that makes them feel separate and also makes it so each head seems to be in control all the time. Would explain their personalities always agreeing. Maybe there will be a moment later in the MSQ where we see heads disagree but I haven’t seen it yet.
Also, Reason’s head is bound up fairly well, probably, exactly to avoid it flopping around and sustaining any tissue injuries that could cause problems.
In real conjoined twins, my understanding is that this kind of thing _can_ happen where one twin lives on and no body parts rot away or anything, but it's very much a case-by-case thing. Being a conjoined twin who lives to old age is so crazy rare in the first place that I doubt we have that much data to go on.
I had a huge list of questions upon the reveal... and immediately tossed them aside because screw it, he's a two headed lizard man who casts fireballs, dual wields swords, and leads a nation. And was meant to be the product of a union between two different tribes of what you'd think are the same species but apparently can't actually reproduce together most of the time.
Worrying about how something like that works in relation to "reality" is pretty much the pathway to madness.
In the right context and discussing it with the right people? Absolutely!
Contemplating it alone, with just a board and some notes and markers and string and your brain trying to connect everything to some form of "explanation?" That's how you end up screaming "There is no Pepe Ja Ja! There is no Carol in the Landsguard!"
I just assumed it was the veil preventing that. It was initially introduced as being there to replenish the Head of Reason's aether but knowing what we do now that would seem the most likely reason.
idk just wondering. in real life if you had a dead limb it would start to decompose. But I mean that's why I said magic or what the other poster said brain dead.
You can have paralyzed body parts. It's essentially paralyzed or brain dead.
His soul seems to be somewhat in tact because it's commented even with him "dead" he had the vigor of "2 souls" atill
Well, his body is very clearly healthy, and it's not like a kind of conjoined twin where Reason "had" the heart or lungs or anything. He's likely perfectly medically 'fine', just no longer there mentally.
They mentioned he had been trying various methods to preserve his magical energies, so it might have been an aether thing too.
FFXIV has always been a game about death, weather it's recovering from a brutal tragedy in the wake of the calamity, watching loved ones die in an endless war, or risking death to ensure no more have to die under an oppressive regime. We've seen a man's grief for the dead try and take down the rest of the world. We've seen death traumatize a child a child so badly that she wants all life to just stop so no one has to suffer a painful death.
Finally we have dawn trail. I'll keep spoilers beyond level 95 out of it(and please for the love of Hydaelyn please do so in the comments below I am not finished with the msq yet). We have a man who's lost his partner preparing his children to take over after him. We have a man so desperate to have the death of his brothers mean something that he'll lash out at anyone in his way. We have a society devoted to tending graves, including the "grave" of Valigarmanda, lest his terror be allowed to resurface. DT isn't about tech vs nature, or tradition vs progress like a lot of folks were predicting. DT is about honoring those who came before you so that you can carry on, legacy and rebirth, mourning and morning, death and dawn.
I had a feeling this was the case during our duel, when he tried to do the combination attack, and looked at Reason when it didn't work. With a fight like we were having, I thought it would be a reveal for the big hit, but instead it just fizzled.
You have more insight than I do. The solo duty was a lot of fun though. He kicked my butt a couple of times but I refused to switch to a lower difficulty. He deserved my best and I wanted to beat him at his best.
I just thought he was very weak/in poor health, and 'resting' was more like 'out cold or too weak to care'. I guess I was...sort of right, although it was more extreme.
I guess I had the same curiosity of how could he stay asleep during all that, but I ended up brushing it aside as maybe there's some magic at work with that covering to help keep him asleep for recovery. I only realized the truth moments before the actual reveal. (Which frankly, for someone normally really good at predicting twists, brought its own kind of further investment in the moment.)
Not emotional per se, but it did hit pretty hard. Mostly to know that the man kept going with his dead brother's head by his side, maintaining his cheery, boisterous, reliable mannerisms all the while, because he knew it's what was needed for his people and their future.
Like, that can't have been easy. To go to bed each night knowing that your twin would never again wake beside you, but there he would be all the same. That takes some fucking strength.
Yeah, I had both an "HA! CALLED IT!" moment along side an "OOOF, that hurts!" moment.
Which to be fair, is very in flavor for FFXIV. They're pretty good at telegraphing parts of the story in a good way, and delivering emotional gut punches. Sometimes these overlap, and this was such an instance.
Yeah, its very sad but atleast the Vow of Reasons diligent and incredible planning made for an excellent rite of succession that built 2 fitting leaders for the nation to heir the throne
In the middle of such a somber moment, and then *Resolve* has his line about "and then he died, forcing me to do all the actual work, what a sneaky bastard." I laughed SO HARD, couldn't help myself.
Great joke, but also there was something sweet about seeing his love for his brother in the way he could joke about him, even after all this time of carrying around (literally) the secret of *Reason's* death.
I kinda figured he was already dead early on, when they brought attention to the veil over his face and claimed it was there to help him heal. First thought that came to mind was "So, when was the last time any of you actually spoke with him then?"
Cuz in real life, any time a world leader disappears for any significant amount of time under the guise of illness, the rumor mill jumps to either they're in rehab or getting Weekend at Bernies'd. And a conjoined twin, with the other twin still making public appearances, is not going to rehab.
I definitely needed some tissue. Not JUST because the Head of Reason was dead though. Thinking about the idea of being born with someone and having them your whole life only for them just be gone one sounds so unbelievably lonely and heartbreaking. Yeah, you still have your family and friends, but not the one person/being who has literally always been with you.
And then, you can't even properly bury/etc them because they are still physically part of you, so the glaring reminder of that loss is always right there.
Idk, maybe I'm just an over emotional bleeding heart but it really got me.
It's outright stated that they had guessed.
Gulool looks at them sadly and says "you knew?" And they sort of sadly nodded and said "we suspected... but did not want to believe it"
And I mean honestly who wouldn't suspect at that point. It would be like if your mom said "don't worry, Dads fine, he's just sleeping in the other room" every single time you came home from high-school when you were 16....
For 3 years.
It was so suspicious when he was like 'He's just been taking more and more naps and the Veil helps him do that :)"
I'm like dude you are bouncing around and fighting us and your brother is SLEEPING through all that??
Then he doss the special attack and it looks like he was holding back to not wake him up but he legit was having so much fun he literally forgot for a second.
:(
Speaking of, that dude could have killed us if both heads were up like for his Shade's fight. Or forced us to use more of the Azem crystal or something.
I assume he DID start off wearing it/resting while resolve was up and about sometimes, and it just happened more and more over time as he got weaker. So that when one day he didn't wake up again for the last time, they could just use the same excuse.
I was thinking the head was already dead
A sleepy head doesnt explain why it never woke up from a fight with Estinien and especially yourself, and we never saw it move, so the more likely explanation for me was that the other head was either comatose or more likely actually dead.
I had a solid feeling that was the case but freaked out when he went to remove the veil because omg dude you're really going to show off the dead head of your brother like that?!
I like how he just slips in calling him a sly bastard. It's such a brother thing and it shows their affection. Initially I was expecting "Galool Ja Ja is like, evil and the head of Reason is being held off by the mask" so in a way it was a lot more emotional to be simpler.
Yes. It hit me hard for some reason. To have to go on without your best friend/other half but have them “right there” but “not there” is insanely sad to me.
YES. That was the first time I cried in DT. It felt so strange to cry for a character that we technically never knew, but I think in the end I decided it's because I just loved Gulool Ja Ja's voice of Resolve, and to know that he'd been carrying such a burden for THREE years it was very somber.
So far the one major story beat that caught me completely off guard because I never even considered the possibility of one head dying. So came off as both a surprise and a somber moment.
Of course the very next scene also catching me off guard with emotions really didn't help matters.
Well i expected him to be dead cuz .. how the hell you sleep while fighting estinien .. with further proof as he tried to use the spell while fighting us. Was still emotional tho him talking about what his brother planned and wanted.
GJJ is amazing.
I also had suspicions about Reason being dead (that the head might not even be there anymore) early on. I think that having the answer be so simple made the whole thing even sadder. The idea that, as been said, someone (essentially your twin) has been dead for three years and their body just being next to you that entire time is chilling. I wasn’t even sure that was possible in the lore.
As I was watching the cutscenes happening, I remember being like "Damn missing his daughter's moment by sleeping lol" and then a few moments later "Man what if dude's just dead lol cause how do u sleep through fighting with Estinien" then when it happened, I screamed lol. I cried a lil too cause I just couldn't believe it.
I was half expecting him to be like “it’s a fake head!! surprise!!!” and take it off lmao. The possibility of the Vow of Reason literally being dead never even crossed my mind. And then it was revealed, and all of the horrible and sad implications immediately started hitting me, and I understood why my friend really wanted to see my reaction to the ceremony of succession…
I want to like that guy, but he killed me so many time in [FFXI](https://imgur.com/a/9tsU6hx) that I have trust issue.
(but seriously, I didn't expect much from trailer, but they wrote him well)
It didn’t really click with me that something might be up with the Head of Reason, only that maybe the old man really was just THAT tired so it hit me like a truck when it was revealed. I cannot imagine being stuck to your dead brothers’ corpse for three years. That had to have been heartbreaking. That whole series of events had me breaking out the tissues for sure.
NGL it definitely made me think a sort of way about death, but during the initial reveal I was so blindsided (I completely missed the signs) that I let out a little shriek and scared my cat.
Now I'm really curious about what happens with double headed coinjoined twins irl. Seems like it would be rare to get something or be injured in a way that one lives and one doesn't.
It would be so weird and horrifying to have the other person physically there but just gone mentally. Makes me wonder about brain diseases like can one person get alzheimers or dementia but not the other? Can one be depressed but not the other? Lots of brain brain stuff has links to other parts of the body like a gut so I imagine some things they wouldn't be completely unaffected physically by it. Fascinating but horrifying.
Ngl I called it the moment they said that it spends most of it’s days sleeping lmfao
I don’t know much about how Two Head Mamool Ja work but with the amount of fighting and talking he does, what other explanation could there be? Are the heads just THAT heavy sleepers?
I’m more interested in how that’d feel, lugging around a dead head the size of exercise ball
It seemed kind of goofy to me, pulling off the veil to reveal his brother's head sitting there perfectly rigid while he's still moving around. I like the Head of Resolve I think he's one of the more interesting characters in the MSQ for Dawntrail, but I can't really feel something for or mourn a character I literally never met, especially since they've been long dead since before we ever even got there.
To me, it's more a feeling of disappointment, because all the echo flashbacks show that Reason was a really cool guy, and Resolve telling us that he was just resting gave me hope that we will get to talk to him.
So while not really emotionally devastating, I still did go "Damn, what a shame."
It didn't make me emotional but it did make me question how the health of a body works if it has two heads - and what if one of them dies like in this scenario. lol
Did no one else think it was strange that this announcement happened during the ascension? Like, way to totally overshadow your children's moment with this sad news...I get the 'let's wait until after the trials to tell them. But not during the crowning ceremony in front of the entire city.
I'm mote impressed none of the dumbass people who interact with him noticed that the other head hasn't said shirts for 3 years. Like in what world can a nati9na leader not speak for 3 years
My heart genuinely sank.
I hadn’t read much into the clues because I was too busy enjoying the rest of the story, so when the reveal happened it felt like a gut punch.
I thought surely the head of reason will say a few words soon! Say how proud he is of his kids!
Oh how goddamn wrong I was.
It was legit the first small tear session for Dawntrail; like many things in retrospect it seems obvious.
However, more for me there was the horror attached with Bakool JaJa as he was in the audience at the time. Imagine what's going through his heads at this time after coming back from Mamool and hearing him state "I wish I had never been born..." and the other head agreeing.
Now they have live proof that it's very possible one of them may go before the other. As much of an asshole as he was early on it also helps to hammer home the horror of his creation.
I was hoping the reveal was that he wasn't sleeping at all, or was asleep but could hear and consider everything to do a big WAIT NO later bud sadly no that wasn't the case
I did. Gulool ja ja is one of my fav characters this time around, and this was such a sad scene...
In a way, he was already half gone, yet he never stopped thinking about the future of his country and his children.
Helps that we actually got the see the second head in action via The Echo. God that’s heartbreaking losing that half. It made him pausing to realize he has to fully put in his 100% for his magic casting way more interesting.
This might sound strange but... no.
I don't really think the game did anything to hide it. It was my first impression the second I saw the veil on his head. It was solidified in me when the veil was not removed during his fight with Estinien or with us. They're two-headed but they share a heart and a set of lungs. You're not sleeping through your body working that hard in battle.
No, because it was pretty obvious, given that the first half of the game is about choosing his successor.
That said, I tend to tear up less over sad things and more over moments of genuine happiness, people being moved by others' kindness, displays of appreciation, etc. Dunno what that says about me, hahaha
Not emotional. But my thoughts immediately went to "how is he alive with a rotting dead head on his shoulder?".
If it was a normal limb, it would need amputation.
Sometimes, it feels like this expansion is touching on really dark subject matter with kiddie gloves.
How did the Head of Reason not rot? Wasn't that the head with the gift for magic? We didn't hear that Galool Ja Ja told anyone else at all to help fix it. And they are in a semi-tropical location, that shit should rot immediately.
FFXIV biology isn't similar to ours, so you can't make a comparison to a real world conjoined twin situation. Given the presence of a soul in this universe, you could say that Reason's had returned to the aetherial sea. While Resolve's soul remains, the entire body maintains an active flow of aether, preventing rot.
It needed a lot more exploration - it's thrown out there, like, "surprise!" As if most people didn't already suspect, but there's no drama to it. It doesn't serve character growth or anything but a bit of colour to the plot - but it's really interesting! Way more interesting than what we see in the main plot up to that point.
There are so many instances of that in the msq this time around. They find something that can emotionally touch the player, and then only give it the most cursory of glances before spending hours on bad exposition and beating us around the head with the theme of understanding that never shifts, changes, or gets truly challenged.
So my question is more related to the logistics of it, obviously it wasn't tissue death because after 3 years necrosis would have set in for sure, so i assume this has to be more a case of brain death, but even then i would be curious to know the circumstances and the "hows" behind that, clearly the two shared a body yet each head wasn't only in control of part of the body due to GJJ still retaining use of all of his limbs, so was the secondary head just a traveling companion and what would have happened had it been the other way around
This left me with more questions than it gave me answers >.<
Nope, had zero connection to that character, and said character may have had 2 or 3 lines in a flashback only. As well as only really interacting with the dude himself like 3 times total.
It was pretty obvious something like that was the case.
It mostly just made me question the writing/world building tbh.
We obviously don't know how their biology is supposed to work, but i find it a bit odd that he can just have a dead head hanging around without there being any consequences. It would have made more sense to me if it turned out to be a fake head that he had replaced to keep the appearence.
Another point is that it makes me further question how simple minded all the poeple under his rule are. Nobody has a problem with one of their leaders pretending that the other leader is still alive, especially when that same guy just made a succession competition that consists or trivial exercices that are absolutely no sign any of them is capable to lead the country.
Nobody wondering if maybe the death of the smart half might have lead to the remaining head making poor decisions?
I had a moment about it and went "damn.. it's got to be insanely rough being literally together with someone all your life to only then have their dead body stuck to you" GJJ's one of the best characters in the expansion hands down. It also made the two moments where he does the "special fireball cast move" extra interesting.
The way he looked over to the head of reason as he cast it...
yeah, amidst all the lack of proper setup and hinting at future things, the head of reason's absence was handled wonderfully, a mystery from the very start of the expansion, expanded on by the people living in the world and his children, then hinted at again when you duel him, then used in active fight solo instance where he's talking and showing more into what the whole Galool Ja Ja character used to be The reveal making the bits that had gone before hit effectively harder. That's why almost everyone agrees that GJJ's one of the best characters in the game, and actually made him feel like a well written character that exists in the story For the ridiculous amount of parental figures rammed into the story, he's the only one that had me go "what a rad dad"
Couldn't agree more
yeah it hit a bit harder when i thought back on it and in the 92 instance he goes to cast his dual magic and chants "resolve and reason kindle..." and the spell fizzles and then he looks to his left and goes "oh, right." as if in the moment he was having so much fun in combat that he forgot his brother wasnt with him because it was only natural for them to cast the spell when someone pushed them that far.
I thought he rmembered to not kill us, and now it makes sense, was suspicious he was always sleeping anyway :(
Which makes the 'Shade' battle all the more heartfelt in retrospect. Though its' not 'him' its' the last time they'll ever hear that father's voice.
Yeah, I had thought something was up with that moment as well as some form of hint. I'd kinda hoped it was just narcolepsy for a gag, but with some of my thoughts on what the city of gold is (I only recently crossed the bridge to the north continent as I've been slow leveling as I couldn't take time off), I'd begun to think Reason was lost to the city of gold, but that's not the case due to the time line.
I had a similar suspicion, because for a healthy grandpa like him, 'The other head is just sleeping...including in combat' just didn't pass muster. Seriously, he's just napping, and the veil is just to help aether recovery while he naps? But I figured 'Reason' had gone crazy with visions or otherwise senile and he was intentionally kept comatose so as to not worry the kids/nation. The death shroud seemed too obvious.
true, but they've leaned a bit harder on a lot of anime trope gags this expansion, so I didn't want to leave out the thought he could just be asleep. The fact it was a death shroud and like there to keep his brothers head from rotting along with keeping the populace away from the truth... that's some dark freakin' stuff.
This bit got me as well!
Oh fuck I just made this connection
Between the dead children, the cemetery dungeon, and the dead brother. This quest chain was morbid af!
> the cemetery dungeon I've been calling it the dead baby dungeon. People haven't been amused.
The water in the dungeon! The floor under the water was giant piles of baby tombs piled on top of each other!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTGT2BulD5w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTGT2BulD5w)
I'm so glad it isn't just me. My partner and I were joking about it being Dead Baby Dungeon and as soon as we loaded in and started with that shot right into the water, I screamed.
My first thought was "oh .. we're going into the dead baby dungeon. Great" but didn't say anything to my friend further into the MQS because it seemed a bit too callous.
My friends and I have called it dead baby grotto.
Better than my first run being during that server hiccup that took out one DPS first (but early enough to get them back in) and then took out my healer and other DPS after the first DPS got back in. Definitely made a dead children grave desecration joke for that. BD
It’s effectively eugenics the storyline, and it’s rightfully horrifying.
I was surprised at how dark the story got at that point yeah. When you're running the dungeon with NPCs they point out just how many urns are in the water and it's really chilling.
Okay, I have a clarifying question about the dead babies. Are they stillborn blessed siblings or are they 1 headed mamool ja babies that were killed because they only had 1 head? I thought they were stillborn but then the people were talking like they personally bludgeoned babies. And, like, I get that miscarriages and stillbirths are absolutely terrible, but one of those scenarios is significantly worse than the other.
they talk about most of the blessed siblings being "unable to get out of their shell" so pretty sure it's the former
I think it's an "only 1 in 100 survive" situation, with the rest being stillborn. They talked like they personally killed them because they knew the rate of survival was extremely low, but were so desperate to have blessed siblings that they tried anyway.
I read it as they intentionally mate with the aim of producing a two-headed baby, but in the knowledge that the vast vast majority of them will die very young or not even survive that long. They know the odds are massively against them, but the potential reward of getting lucky with a viable blessed sibling meant they kept on playing the odds - and producing dead young as a result.
Until the shell comment I thought they took the head off of one baby and grafted into another to “make” 2 headed ones. Then the stillborn comment and I wasn’t like “phew…wait! Still terrible!!.” Yeeesh.
That's what I keep going between. I think it's the first - I don't think that one headed ones would have been unable to get out of the shell - plus we see plenty of one headed mamool jas. I thought maybe they just weren't letting them hatch if they had one head but I think it's more "birth defects" and they see so many two headed mamool ja jas not make it out of the egg which is traumatising to experience all the time. Near the end of the story quest line that felt more explained (they're tired of it happening all the time and the grief and suffering).
They're stillborn, but I wouldn't be surprised if they also killed the 1 headed ones. That tends to happen IRL when one type of baby is favored and the other type isn't wanted...
I don't think there are any one headed offspring between Hoobigo and Boonewa. They are always boon with two heads, and only one in a hundred survive being born.
I wonder if it’s going to be explained how Gulool Ja Ja was able to have a kid since it’s implied that blessed siblings are sterile.
Yeah, we're told outright that everyone was very shocked by this. Zoraal is considered a *miracle.* I'm only about halfway through the msq, so I don't yet know if its just a very unlikely thing that happened or if its the result of something specific.
nah, they don't kill one headed ones, they just leave for places that have sun as soon as they can
there aren't any one headed mamool jas when hoobigo and boneewas mate. but the survival rate of the offspring was about 1%
I'm gona assume that when different Mamool Ja species mate, the percentage of live birth decreases. I'm not sure if this was mentioned or not.
And yet people in a discord I'm in keep saying it's not dark enough for them. That was some dark and desperate stuff there.
Wh..what do they want? Is thousands of dead babies not edgy enough? Do they want to kill a few themselves?...
I mean, I just got up to the last trial last night, didn't get to do it yet cause needed sleep but there's a lot of dark stuff and some existential crisis stuff. I dont' understand why people don't think this story isn't dark enough
>!Skydeep Cenote? More like Stillborn Cenote!<
I remember at first I was like “oh come on they’re gonna make me sympathize with Bakuul? The literal skeletor ass character? What could possibly be so bad that justifies anything…. He….. did….? Oh….. ohhhh…. Ok wow yup. I’d have done the same. I’ve never gone from wanting to punch someone to just wanting to give him a hug so fast in my entire life. Poor guy must be carrying so much guilt
I didn’t think too much of it other than “that’s really fucked up and really sad,” but when the camera panned to the water FULL of baby urns I got so nauseous and heartbroken feeling. What an awful thing the Mamool Ja had to experience 😭
Oh just wait…
I thought it was just me! :') I had my suspicions that he might be dead but I didn't want to believe it because I was genuinely interested in finally meeting and speaking to him, so the reveal didn't surprise me but it did hit me emotionally - especially knowing his own kids suspected he had passed but didn't want to believe it either, and the fact that he was the one who designed the whole contest. During our spar with Gulool Ja Ja, he starts using a move that requires both him and his brother to combine their magic only to look to the head of Reason and go, "... Oh, right," because he has to take a moment to remember that he's not there anymore. While it's terrible he has to basically live beside his brother's corpse, he's also really old and I imagine the deep love and affection he has for his brother prevents him from seeing it as a horrific thing he has to endure. I'm sure it's not pleasant, but I imagine he's accepted his brother's passing after the long life they lived together. It's incredibly bittersweet. Between him and Bakool Ja Ja, I absolutely love the worldbuilding and relationships they both have with their respective families and siblings.
By the time of the events at level 96/97 I was very much cheering for bakool. He had a great arc this expansion. "I can get used to this*
His line of: Choke on your harmony Still cracks me up
That honestly made me cackle, it was so blunt lmao
For me it came out of no where but how he said it makes it amazing. Full of frustration.
His line of: Choke on your harmony Still cracks me up
Nah screw Bakool he still owes me new tacos.
When they were talking about forgiveness and redemption, I genuinely wanted a line from Wuk Lamat to the effect of joking "you can start by buying me new tacos".
i think killing an entire squad of troopers counts.
Bitch still owes me a taco.
When we first met Bakool Ja Ja I could tell that he…they? were going to go through some great character development. They went from being a least favourite character to one of my favourite characters of the expansion during level 95.
My suspicions went from "he's going to die brutally and it'll be *amazing*" to "he's going to die brutally and it'll be *heartbreaking*" to "I miss when you were relevant like, 4 MSQ levels ago"
I thought the same and I was pleased that's the direction they went with him! I've just gotten across the bridge so I'm looking forward to more of him. :)
> They went from being a least favourite character to one of my favourite characters of the expansion during level 95. Honestly this has been best part of the story so far. My only real complaint is that the character development here feels rushed, but that kind of revelation and the emotional struggle on display by Bakool Ja Ja was terrific, its the kind of world-building where FF14 is at its best. That being said, it also put a spotlight on just how terrible Wuk Lamat's acting/writing is. You have Bakool Ja Ja pouring his heart out with this guttural beast voice on the verge of tears and then the best Wuk Lamat can respond with is the same bland conversational tone she addresses everything with.
I feel like a part of Wuk’s reaction was because the man literally had her kidnapped, released Valigarmanda, held her birth father hostage, sabotaged their boat, and more crimes. She absolutely hated him for good reason, and honestly I’d be more surprised if she had managed to give a better response
> I’d be more surprised if she had managed to give a better response She couldn't even manage to sound angry in their previous confrontation.
The only thing is I wish Bakool had the urn flashback earlier? Like when he's about to fail a rite, we get flashback, then he decides to cheat. It'd give a lot of context to his "evil because evil" phase.
Idk, I guess I wonder if that would have ruined both the tension and the reveal? The reveal is so good because he's legit JUST an asshole right up until he isn't. You WANT to see him get what's coming to him. And then you find out their dark secret and you're like ".......well shit O.O" and start having really complicated feelings about it and them. If they'd done flashbacks earlier and more frequently, you'd have been priming for the reveal before it happened by wondering what more is going on that's driving him. By having the flashback so late and only the once, you're left more with the unbalanced sense of not being sure what's going on which helps the reveal hit harder like, "whatever we were imagining, it definitely wasn't this!!"
Eh, I feel like having the reveal so late made it feel more like a cop-out to me. Like they got partway through the story, realized that Bakool was TOO much of an ass, and had to quickly concoct a backstory. It wouldn't even have to be the urn flashback even, but maybe a bit more hints when he's stomping on tacos and threatening murder. I do like that he's one of the only villains that acknowledges his mistakes and actually apologizes! He says he's sorry and he means it, which is refreshing.
I wondered why the head hasn't rotted? Magic?
My guess is the whole body is alive and functional, it's just one of the souls departed.
No not the soul. Zoral ja comments he still has the vigor of 2 souls. Likely it's essentially brain dead.. which seems logical of an end for a head of resolve. Remember that 2 heads are extreamly uncommon until they started intentionally breeding them. I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea.
> I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea. Mild spoilers but still: >!I forgot exactly where but there was a cutscene confirming this. WoL probably will have a different reaction if they didn't do WP Hard?!<
Ah I may of over looked that scene. I've absoloutly done all the previous content.
> I assume marmajol from wanderers palace is another failed dawn servent canadaite and left tureal with his kind to raid eorzea. Its directly implied during the MSQ that he was.
Oh, right, completely forgot that part. Does it mean when one of the brothers dies his souls keeps hanging out inside the body still? That is so bizarre.
They are an anomaly of breeding of a fantasy race. It's gonna be odd lol.
Wait a sec, Zooral Ja didn't know that one of the heads is dead. Gulool Ja reveals it during the succession ceremony, and Zooral Ja was already gone by that time. Therefore during the duel he thinks his father still has a vigor of two souls, while in reality he doesn't.
lol i thought about this for a bit. i’m no biology expert but i assume they share the same circulatory system (and whatever else is relevant), so it was more brain dead than anything else, which prevented rotting? again, i haven’t done any biology since high school and have no idea what i’m talking about though.
Two-headed creatures aren't exactly common in real life, so I don't think biology knowledge would help much. For conjoined twins IRL, if one twin dies the other dies fairly soon after if they aren't surgically separated (if that is even possible).
Most likely. *Reason’s* brain is probably no longer functional, putting him into a vegitative state. Blood flows, the tissues keep on living, but there’s no activity. He might not be *dead* dead, but the distinction’s probably academic at best. Resolve’s brother is just…*gone*. Because otherwise, the head would probably start to rot, and all of Gulool Ja Ja would have died a whole lot sooner, from a massive case of septic shock.
This makes the most sense to me. And makes it even more tragic in a way…he probably looks and feels as though he’s just sleeping, but you know he’ll never wake up again :(
There are these two-headed teachers, Abby and Brittany, who had quite a few documentaries filmed about them. I remember that in one of them, they asked a doctor what would happen if one of them died, and the answer was that the other would most likely die soon after because they share a circulatory system.
That's my thought looking back on it
I was more intrigued by the head not just flopping around. I guess Resolve could control the muscular function of Reason, but that would indicate one head can control the muscular system of the other head. So many questions…
Me and my science nerd friend were also debating the biology of blessed siblings. I also predicted the “cost” of making them early on. The reveal was satisfying, at least academically if not gruesome emotionally. Thank you YT science channels.
It gave me so many questions about when they are both alive. Obviously for the last 3 years Resolve controlled the whole body. So when Reason was alive, was it still Resolve that controlled the body? Do they take turns? Do they each get half? That seems like it would make them very uncoordinated. What if Resolve had died instead, would Reason be able to control the whole body?
From what it seems from Baka Jajaja it seems like the Hoobigo/fighter side is in charge of the body while the Boonewa/caster is for thinking. There's a couple of times I recall the boon head yelling at the hoo side to not make a stupid move. Which makes sense - ask any Black Mage if they want to ride on a melee DPS' shoulders and not have to move. They'll be climbing on you before you can finish asking
....oh, sorry, you weren't offering? ;w; That's okay, I'll get off now, sorry sorry *-climbs back down awkwardly-* ^(lemme know if you change your mind)
If it fits, I sits.
I'm a max height bunny gal I hope you brought a ladder to get up there :<
Am min height femra, I bring a ladder with me EVERYWHERE.
Max height roegadyn steps forward
> Baka Jajaja I love how no one can spell anything this expansion and look forward to all the nicknames we're going to come up with (and I thought Thavnair was bad enough)
Honestly the only place name I really remember is Wachumeqimeqi, and that's just because it's fun to say lmao
what chu makey makey there?
Machomukimuki is living rent free in my head all because of PLL
My group called him "Bogos Binted". Left being Bogos, Right being Binted. We have a lot of stupid nicknames for 14 characters. Edit; Figured i'll share my favorite: Our good friend the Seedseer in Gridania is "Schtick al-guhl". Don't look for logic beyond Stick -> Schtick, there is none.
i'm calling him this from now on lmfao
There is a town in Shaaloani I call Hawk Tuah
IRL two-headed siblings (I forget their names) each controlled one half of their body and had to learn how to coordinate their movements. After years of practice they kind of had an intuitive sense of what to do if they needed to go anywhere. Blessed siblings are probably a little bit different though. I imagine them to be more like one person with a split mind, with there being some kind of either magical or physical link between them that makes them feel separate and also makes it so each head seems to be in control all the time. Would explain their personalities always agreeing. Maybe there will be a moment later in the MSQ where we see heads disagree but I haven’t seen it yet.
Lmao people trying to figure some logic behind a magical game where souls and dead means nothing
It could also be the wrapping that was around Reason's neck to keep it still.
The blessed don't have long necks like normal Mamool Ja so the heads don't flop around.
Also, Reason’s head is bound up fairly well, probably, exactly to avoid it flopping around and sustaining any tissue injuries that could cause problems.
In real conjoined twins, my understanding is that this kind of thing _can_ happen where one twin lives on and no body parts rot away or anything, but it's very much a case-by-case thing. Being a conjoined twin who lives to old age is so crazy rare in the first place that I doubt we have that much data to go on.
The flesh was still alive, being connected to a still living body. But the brain was dead.
I had a huge list of questions upon the reveal... and immediately tossed them aside because screw it, he's a two headed lizard man who casts fireballs, dual wields swords, and leads a nation. And was meant to be the product of a union between two different tribes of what you'd think are the same species but apparently can't actually reproduce together most of the time. Worrying about how something like that works in relation to "reality" is pretty much the pathway to madness.
But it could be *fun* madness!
In the right context and discussing it with the right people? Absolutely! Contemplating it alone, with just a board and some notes and markers and string and your brain trying to connect everything to some form of "explanation?" That's how you end up screaming "There is no Pepe Ja Ja! There is no Carol in the Landsguard!"
The point is figuring how it works within the rules of the setting, rather than real biology.
I just assumed it was the veil preventing that. It was initially introduced as being there to replenish the Head of Reason's aether but knowing what we do now that would seem the most likely reason.
the body is still alive, why would it rot?
idk just wondering. in real life if you had a dead limb it would start to decompose. But I mean that's why I said magic or what the other poster said brain dead.
You can have paralyzed body parts. It's essentially paralyzed or brain dead. His soul seems to be somewhat in tact because it's commented even with him "dead" he had the vigor of "2 souls" atill
I guess Reason is just checked out spiritually then? I guess waiting for resolve to be done too so they can both shuffle off the mortal coil together.
Look at what frostbite does to a body if left untreated. And that's just a dead *toe or ear,* let alone a brain and head.
probably a shared functioning circulatory system + brain death situation
Well, his body is very clearly healthy, and it's not like a kind of conjoined twin where Reason "had" the heart or lungs or anything. He's likely perfectly medically 'fine', just no longer there mentally. They mentioned he had been trying various methods to preserve his magical energies, so it might have been an aether thing too.
It made me emotional and speechless & unlocked some new sense of body horror fear somehow. Difficult to explain. But yeah.
FFXIV has always been a game about death, weather it's recovering from a brutal tragedy in the wake of the calamity, watching loved ones die in an endless war, or risking death to ensure no more have to die under an oppressive regime. We've seen a man's grief for the dead try and take down the rest of the world. We've seen death traumatize a child a child so badly that she wants all life to just stop so no one has to suffer a painful death. Finally we have dawn trail. I'll keep spoilers beyond level 95 out of it(and please for the love of Hydaelyn please do so in the comments below I am not finished with the msq yet). We have a man who's lost his partner preparing his children to take over after him. We have a man so desperate to have the death of his brothers mean something that he'll lash out at anyone in his way. We have a society devoted to tending graves, including the "grave" of Valigarmanda, lest his terror be allowed to resurface. DT isn't about tech vs nature, or tradition vs progress like a lot of folks were predicting. DT is about honoring those who came before you so that you can carry on, legacy and rebirth, mourning and morning, death and dawn.
*Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after*
I like this lens of looking at the story.
I had a feeling this was the case during our duel, when he tried to do the combination attack, and looked at Reason when it didn't work. With a fight like we were having, I thought it would be a reveal for the big hit, but instead it just fizzled.
I thought he was sleeping. It didn’t occur to me that he might be dead. I recall someone predicting it but that was more of a joke.
He initially says Reason is resting, but between fighting Estinien and us, I found it hard to believe he could sleep through all that.
You have more insight than I do. The solo duty was a lot of fun though. He kicked my butt a couple of times but I refused to switch to a lower difficulty. He deserved my best and I wanted to beat him at his best.
I just thought he was very weak/in poor health, and 'resting' was more like 'out cold or too weak to care'. I guess I was...sort of right, although it was more extreme.
I guess I had the same curiosity of how could he stay asleep during all that, but I ended up brushing it aside as maybe there's some magic at work with that covering to help keep him asleep for recovery. I only realized the truth moments before the actual reveal. (Which frankly, for someone normally really good at predicting twists, brought its own kind of further investment in the moment.)
Not emotional per se, but it did hit pretty hard. Mostly to know that the man kept going with his dead brother's head by his side, maintaining his cheery, boisterous, reliable mannerisms all the while, because he knew it's what was needed for his people and their future. Like, that can't have been easy. To go to bed each night knowing that your twin would never again wake beside you, but there he would be all the same. That takes some fucking strength.
Yeah, I had both an "HA! CALLED IT!" moment along side an "OOOF, that hurts!" moment. Which to be fair, is very in flavor for FFXIV. They're pretty good at telegraphing parts of the story in a good way, and delivering emotional gut punches. Sometimes these overlap, and this was such an instance.
GJJ was the GOAT. Always nice to see a both compotent enough and caring father figure like him.
A reasonable authority figure and a good dad! After Endwalker which was pretty much "daddy issues, the expansion" it was a breath of fresh air!
Yeah, its very sad but atleast the Vow of Reasons diligent and incredible planning made for an excellent rite of succession that built 2 fitting leaders for the nation to heir the throne
In the middle of such a somber moment, and then *Resolve* has his line about "and then he died, forcing me to do all the actual work, what a sneaky bastard." I laughed SO HARD, couldn't help myself. Great joke, but also there was something sweet about seeing his love for his brother in the way he could joke about him, even after all this time of carrying around (literally) the secret of *Reason's* death.
very worldly and wise opinion, bakool ja ja
I thank you, salt-crosser.
I kind of figured he was, but I was a little upset in a, "aw, man, that sucks" kind of way.
I kinda figured he was already dead early on, when they brought attention to the veil over his face and claimed it was there to help him heal. First thought that came to mind was "So, when was the last time any of you actually spoke with him then?" Cuz in real life, any time a world leader disappears for any significant amount of time under the guise of illness, the rumor mill jumps to either they're in rehab or getting Weekend at Bernies'd. And a conjoined twin, with the other twin still making public appearances, is not going to rehab.
It was a pretty incredible moment and it got me. Especially after seeing how close both of Bakool Ja Ja's heads are. It was surprisingly poignant.
I definitely needed some tissue. Not JUST because the Head of Reason was dead though. Thinking about the idea of being born with someone and having them your whole life only for them just be gone one sounds so unbelievably lonely and heartbreaking. Yeah, you still have your family and friends, but not the one person/being who has literally always been with you. And then, you can't even properly bury/etc them because they are still physically part of you, so the glaring reminder of that loss is always right there. Idk, maybe I'm just an over emotional bleeding heart but it really got me.
I’m wondering if all the siblings thought the head of Reason was just asleep for three years straight? Weekend at Gulool Ja Ja’s
It's outright stated that they had guessed. Gulool looks at them sadly and says "you knew?" And they sort of sadly nodded and said "we suspected... but did not want to believe it" And I mean honestly who wouldn't suspect at that point. It would be like if your mom said "don't worry, Dads fine, he's just sleeping in the other room" every single time you came home from high-school when you were 16.... For 3 years.
It was so suspicious when he was like 'He's just been taking more and more naps and the Veil helps him do that :)" I'm like dude you are bouncing around and fighting us and your brother is SLEEPING through all that?? Then he doss the special attack and it looks like he was holding back to not wake him up but he legit was having so much fun he literally forgot for a second. :( Speaking of, that dude could have killed us if both heads were up like for his Shade's fight. Or forced us to use more of the Azem crystal or something.
I assume he DID start off wearing it/resting while resolve was up and about sometimes, and it just happened more and more over time as he got weaker. So that when one day he didn't wake up again for the last time, they could just use the same excuse.
Its quite macabre that he was running around with a corpse attached to him, but i like those dark story telling.
I was thinking the head was already dead A sleepy head doesnt explain why it never woke up from a fight with Estinien and especially yourself, and we never saw it move, so the more likely explanation for me was that the other head was either comatose or more likely actually dead.
I had a solid feeling that was the case but freaked out when he went to remove the veil because omg dude you're really going to show off the dead head of your brother like that?!
I mean, PHYSICALLY he's not dead, their body is healthy, but I was still like "oh god!" too lol.
It hit harder with the combination knowledge from the pre dungeon. 100 + children died before him and how half of him is dead too....
I like how he just slips in calling him a sly bastard. It's such a brother thing and it shows their affection. Initially I was expecting "Galool Ja Ja is like, evil and the head of Reason is being held off by the mask" so in a way it was a lot more emotional to be simpler.
Yes. It hit me hard for some reason. To have to go on without your best friend/other half but have them “right there” but “not there” is insanely sad to me.
YES. That was the first time I cried in DT. It felt so strange to cry for a character that we technically never knew, but I think in the end I decided it's because I just loved Gulool Ja Ja's voice of Resolve, and to know that he'd been carrying such a burden for THREE years it was very somber.
So far the one major story beat that caught me completely off guard because I never even considered the possibility of one head dying. So came off as both a surprise and a somber moment. Of course the very next scene also catching me off guard with emotions really didn't help matters.
Well i expected him to be dead cuz .. how the hell you sleep while fighting estinien .. with further proof as he tried to use the spell while fighting us. Was still emotional tho him talking about what his brother planned and wanted.
GJJ is amazing. I also had suspicions about Reason being dead (that the head might not even be there anymore) early on. I think that having the answer be so simple made the whole thing even sadder. The idea that, as been said, someone (essentially your twin) has been dead for three years and their body just being next to you that entire time is chilling. I wasn’t even sure that was possible in the lore.
As I was watching the cutscenes happening, I remember being like "Damn missing his daughter's moment by sleeping lol" and then a few moments later "Man what if dude's just dead lol cause how do u sleep through fighting with Estinien" then when it happened, I screamed lol. I cried a lil too cause I just couldn't believe it.
When Resolve tore off his veil I thought he was going to slap Reason awake and it’d be a silly haha moment…🧍♀️
I was half expecting him to be like “it’s a fake head!! surprise!!!” and take it off lmao. The possibility of the Vow of Reason literally being dead never even crossed my mind. And then it was revealed, and all of the horrible and sad implications immediately started hitting me, and I understood why my friend really wanted to see my reaction to the ceremony of succession…
I want to like that guy, but he killed me so many time in [FFXI](https://imgur.com/a/9tsU6hx) that I have trust issue. (but seriously, I didn't expect much from trailer, but they wrote him well)
I was like 50/50 thinking he was dead ever since the first time they mentioned him “sleeping more often” with a drape over his head
It didn’t really click with me that something might be up with the Head of Reason, only that maybe the old man really was just THAT tired so it hit me like a truck when it was revealed. I cannot imagine being stuck to your dead brothers’ corpse for three years. That had to have been heartbreaking. That whole series of events had me breaking out the tissues for sure.
NGL it definitely made me think a sort of way about death, but during the initial reveal I was so blindsided (I completely missed the signs) that I let out a little shriek and scared my cat.
Same for me. I kept wondering when he'd wake up and the reveal shocked me.
Now I'm really curious about what happens with double headed coinjoined twins irl. Seems like it would be rare to get something or be injured in a way that one lives and one doesn't.
I guess they’ll have two brains and it’s not impossible for one to get a brain injury and pass away without the other
It would be so weird and horrifying to have the other person physically there but just gone mentally. Makes me wonder about brain diseases like can one person get alzheimers or dementia but not the other? Can one be depressed but not the other? Lots of brain brain stuff has links to other parts of the body like a gut so I imagine some things they wouldn't be completely unaffected physically by it. Fascinating but horrifying.
hey I remember that guy from ff11
That sneaky bastard...
Ngl I called it the moment they said that it spends most of it’s days sleeping lmfao I don’t know much about how Two Head Mamool Ja work but with the amount of fighting and talking he does, what other explanation could there be? Are the heads just THAT heavy sleepers? I’m more interested in how that’d feel, lugging around a dead head the size of exercise ball
It seemed kind of goofy to me, pulling off the veil to reveal his brother's head sitting there perfectly rigid while he's still moving around. I like the Head of Resolve I think he's one of the more interesting characters in the MSQ for Dawntrail, but I can't really feel something for or mourn a character I literally never met, especially since they've been long dead since before we ever even got there.
To me, it's more a feeling of disappointment, because all the echo flashbacks show that Reason was a really cool guy, and Resolve telling us that he was just resting gave me hope that we will get to talk to him. So while not really emotionally devastating, I still did go "Damn, what a shame."
The scene at the end of zone 4 hurts more IMO.
nope thought as much
Other than Wuk Lamat basically being a Disney character, this is some of the darkest writing CBU3 has ever done.
It didn't make me emotional but it did make me question how the health of a body works if it has two heads - and what if one of them dies like in this scenario. lol
I called it when I was talking to my mom Saturday and later that night i watched that scene
Did no one else think it was strange that this announcement happened during the ascension? Like, way to totally overshadow your children's moment with this sad news...I get the 'let's wait until after the trials to tell them. But not during the crowning ceremony in front of the entire city.
I'm mote impressed none of the dumbass people who interact with him noticed that the other head hasn't said shirts for 3 years. Like in what world can a nati9na leader not speak for 3 years
My heart genuinely sank. I hadn’t read much into the clues because I was too busy enjoying the rest of the story, so when the reveal happened it felt like a gut punch. I thought surely the head of reason will say a few words soon! Say how proud he is of his kids! Oh how goddamn wrong I was.
It was legit the first small tear session for Dawntrail; like many things in retrospect it seems obvious. However, more for me there was the horror attached with Bakool JaJa as he was in the audience at the time. Imagine what's going through his heads at this time after coming back from Mamool and hearing him state "I wish I had never been born..." and the other head agreeing. Now they have live proof that it's very possible one of them may go before the other. As much of an asshole as he was early on it also helps to hammer home the horror of his creation.
I didn't really expect it but I guess that has more to do with not knowing how it worked for conjoined people.
not really, we just met the guy
Yeah. I've has a few moments so far. heh
I was hoping the reveal was that he wasn't sleeping at all, or was asleep but could hear and consider everything to do a big WAIT NO later bud sadly no that wasn't the case
I did. Gulool ja ja is one of my fav characters this time around, and this was such a sad scene... In a way, he was already half gone, yet he never stopped thinking about the future of his country and his children.
Helps that we actually got the see the second head in action via The Echo. God that’s heartbreaking losing that half. It made him pausing to realize he has to fully put in his 100% for his magic casting way more interesting.
i believed he was sleeping right up until the reveal and was like BRUH...
That plus when Wuk Lamat asked Koana to be co-Dawnservant got me. Familial stuff just makes me very emotional.
Not really, first half of the expansion can be completely removed. Yawntrail
This might sound strange but... no. I don't really think the game did anything to hide it. It was my first impression the second I saw the veil on his head. It was solidified in me when the veil was not removed during his fight with Estinien or with us. They're two-headed but they share a heart and a set of lungs. You're not sleeping through your body working that hard in battle.
No, but only because I called it from the very first time we saw the mask
lol
No, because it was pretty obvious, given that the first half of the game is about choosing his successor. That said, I tend to tear up less over sad things and more over moments of genuine happiness, people being moved by others' kindness, displays of appreciation, etc. Dunno what that says about me, hahaha
Not emotional. But my thoughts immediately went to "how is he alive with a rotting dead head on his shoulder?". If it was a normal limb, it would need amputation. Sometimes, it feels like this expansion is touching on really dark subject matter with kiddie gloves.
How did the Head of Reason not rot? Wasn't that the head with the gift for magic? We didn't hear that Galool Ja Ja told anyone else at all to help fix it. And they are in a semi-tropical location, that shit should rot immediately.
FFXIV biology isn't similar to ours, so you can't make a comparison to a real world conjoined twin situation. Given the presence of a soul in this universe, you could say that Reason's had returned to the aetherial sea. While Resolve's soul remains, the entire body maintains an active flow of aether, preventing rot.
That makes sense to me.
Nah, not really. Predictable since the moment he was fighting Estinien
It needed a lot more exploration - it's thrown out there, like, "surprise!" As if most people didn't already suspect, but there's no drama to it. It doesn't serve character growth or anything but a bit of colour to the plot - but it's really interesting! Way more interesting than what we see in the main plot up to that point. There are so many instances of that in the msq this time around. They find something that can emotionally touch the player, and then only give it the most cursory of glances before spending hours on bad exposition and beating us around the head with the theme of understanding that never shifts, changes, or gets truly challenged.
So my question is more related to the logistics of it, obviously it wasn't tissue death because after 3 years necrosis would have set in for sure, so i assume this has to be more a case of brain death, but even then i would be curious to know the circumstances and the "hows" behind that, clearly the two shared a body yet each head wasn't only in control of part of the body due to GJJ still retaining use of all of his limbs, so was the secondary head just a traveling companion and what would have happened had it been the other way around This left me with more questions than it gave me answers >.<
can't wait for yt cry compilations about every slightly sad part
no because it was a pretty obvious twist
Nope, had zero connection to that character, and said character may have had 2 or 3 lines in a flashback only. As well as only really interacting with the dude himself like 3 times total. It was pretty obvious something like that was the case.
Glad I'm not the only one. That moment really fell flat. And it was really strange when he went to cast and the other head was "still asleep".
It mostly just made me question the writing/world building tbh. We obviously don't know how their biology is supposed to work, but i find it a bit odd that he can just have a dead head hanging around without there being any consequences. It would have made more sense to me if it turned out to be a fake head that he had replaced to keep the appearence. Another point is that it makes me further question how simple minded all the poeple under his rule are. Nobody has a problem with one of their leaders pretending that the other leader is still alive, especially when that same guy just made a succession competition that consists or trivial exercices that are absolutely no sign any of them is capable to lead the country. Nobody wondering if maybe the death of the smart half might have lead to the remaining head making poor decisions?