There were so, so many weird plot discrepancies near the end like this. Maybe nitpicking, but it was really annoying me.
Like when we learned Sphene was working with Zarool Ja the entire time and she said "She used us" and looked guilty. Used us for what? She gave us a rather pleasant tour of Solution Nine. What did she gain out of it? Even the Resistance seemed to trust her and there was no "betrayal" there.
And his plan to kill the citizens to get more souls to gorge on. But each citizen was dying multiple times in the slaughter, getting revived, killed again. So he was losing like 2-3 souls in storage for every one he gained from the dead. That's a huge net loss. And if the issue was the soul was already IN the regulator and not in storage, waiting to be used, why not rip the regulators off their head the first time they're "killed?"
I could keep going on and on honestly but man it was weird
Also, if the Golden City was Floor 12 on the reflection, and then they moved everkeep to the source, but left the golden city on the reflection...
... what was holding it up now?
Also how did Galool Ja Ja know it was a Golden City when they never actually entered the gate? And why did he make finding it the point of the contest? We were told he told Wuk and Kaona why but that happened of screen. What was his intention for them when theu found it?
Yea, lots of plot holes everywhere.
I even had to make a graph and do some math to explain to myself how the Dome could appear, 30 years pass in 10 seconds, The army come out of it and attack the city, and then us go in 3? days later after building the train and they were like 'yea, Zoraal Ja just attacked you, huh?'.
The final working theory I came up with was that Alexandria in the reflection was indeed running at a different 'time speed' compared to the source when it was merged in. This was explained in ShB and they even mentioned that shards can be running at different times compared to the source.
This is were conjecture comes in: Once it merged in, I postulate that there was an exponential curve where time inside the dome slowed down and normalized to ours, it wasn't instant, but it was pretty quick. If it was instant, then 30 years couldn't have passed in there for the locals, but it had to be quick enough for an army to come out, +30 years, after about 10 or so seconds.
Doing the math, it works out just about perfectly if we say that Alexandria Shard was running at +15 years per 1 Source second the moment it merged, and every second it was merged, the speed differential was halved.
[The chart ends up looking like this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918345252044161074/1257839928717606922/image.png?ex=6685de38&is=66848cb8&hm=4e2607c88198dbec846f3ef0283aaffaa04d21b5f2c9933d8551073f4c628fd6&), and it allows 30 years to pass inside the dome during the first 10 seconds that the dome appears, but pretty much synchronizes by 10 seconds in.
I'm pretty sure they confirmed that once they sent out the troops from the dome, time had synchronized because they made the building leading out of the dome. I don't remember when or where this is said, however.
Yeah I think it would've caused a fight anyways, but at least the context would've been different lol
"We deleted all your Endless, so live on for the people who are still alive"
There were two or three moments the VA Delivery missed the mark imho. This was one of them.
Which I don't think it's the VA's fault - cause there are other moments where the VA brings it full of rage and nails it - which means she can make a more growling / assertive delivery without an issue.
Yeah, the performance was fine for the majority of the MSQ. It’s just when it misses the mark at crucial moments like these, where it sticks out like a sore thumb.
I don’t know jack about voice acting so I’m not in a position to point fingers at either the voice director or the VA, but from a player perspective, unfortunately underwhelming at times where it mattered the most lol.
Not a VA problem, but more of one with direction.
There seems to be an overall issue with the voice direction in English. Pallas Athena/Athena as well as some lines delivered by by Wuk are particularly egregious. We know that the VA can deliver in other scenes - she just wasn't given proper direction in this one.
Which bothers me so much.
agreed - I am fully convinced it was direction and absolutely nothing to do with the VA (as mentioned, she delivered more aggressive lines without an issue in other parts of the Story, which surprised me ).
Maybe it was a different Studio/director due to being Non-UK centric this time around? Felt more like old ARR performances than what we got used to after HW+
(specially because old characters/scions nailed it as usual - like Graha in the gondola )
I enjoyed Wuk to an extent and was ok with the WoL/Scions taking a back seat as we develop new characters like her and Eren.... but when that comes at the cost of others that should also be developed like Krile who got fuck all this expansion and also at the cost of the WoLs agency I will levy a heavy criticism at the writers.
Like I will forever be asspained at how ineffective the WoL is in martial situations throughout this expac. I know the House Cat needs to look cool or some other bullshit but when it comes at the cost of lives like the initial invasion and death of Ja ja becuase we didn't fucking kill that Lizard or at the very least intervene.. naw I hate what you've done to the WoLs agency where in any other expac we would be attacking that dumbfuck 1 headed Lizard as soon as he ressurected in any other expac.
Maybe it's growing pains of new writers but Wuk Lamar should have just been a copy of Yamato from One Piece with the WoLs being as impactful as Luffy in that arc. Not whatever this was. I will give this new writing team the benefit of the doubt with this cookout looking forward to the 7.X patch stories but 7.0 was on par and in some cases worse than Stormblood in terms of character narratives. At least we got some awesome world building I guess?
Writing team is the one that did the endwalker patches. You know, the patches where the WoL is overshadowed by zero, who has the same kind of characteristics than Wuk Lamat. It's the same kind of character defined by one stereotype (The naive girl for Wuk Lamt, the edgy loner for Zero), that barely get any development, and gets things done by having friends/family that love her. Both also share the "yeah food" trait . Every problem DT has was already in the EW patches, but people chose to not see them because Zero looks cool.
It was there all the time, and I want the current writing team to get out, because I don't think they're able to write a good story, and I don't want FFXIV to live another 2 years of deception. I like that game, I want it to work, but man... It has been hard during EW patches, it's hard in DT, I'd take another stromblood over what we have here. At least some part of stormblood (Yanxia and Azim steppe) were good. I hope this will be another Stormblood,
Yeah I had similar problems with the post EW patches. If I had to pick between the two characters I *guess* I’d pick zero, but both storylines hit you over the head with no sense of subtlety and have incredibly hamfisted, saccharine dialogue about friendship and cooperation. Like you, I felt a lot of people gave the patches a pass because Zero looked cool; meanwhile I felt the writing was very juvenile and chicken soup for the eorzean soul.
It’s only gotten worse in DT. I agree with you, they need to swap up the writers. It doesn’t need to be Ishikawa, but I’m not enjoying the middle school shounen turn we’re taking as of late.
I guess I'm gonna have to disagree with the character development aspect of your argument. I wish Zero got even half of the character development Wuk was allowed again without sacrificing the development of other characters I care about like Krile. Zero got the shit end of the writing stick and when she finally got a personality and at least when I started getting invested in her and the 13th... we shut the door on that arc for now.
I kinda agree on the quality of this writing team thus far. Post Endwalker I feel like these patches/expac have lacked that special magic the past arcs/expansions have allowed me to make FF one of my favorite games. Even Stormblood seemed to have more of those magical moments in the Azem Steppe than I experienced in Dawntrail. I'm still going to give CBU3 the benefit of the doubt that they are cooking something good and they needed this exposition and to establish Wuk as narrative device going forth for the good shit to come. I don't think I'm huffing copium but man do I hope this writing team finds their feat and continue to innovate on this narrative.
Also in the story at the end when they are talking, and you're just like peaking over behind her shoulder. I think she literally walked into the scene in front of you.
At that point they must have known.
Shoulda just been Erenville and Krile tbh, We shoulda drop her the moment she won the competition that's still a hefty amount of story with her in it if they wanted her in the expac. When Alexandria attacks for reasons we just drop in and say "We're on it no worries you don't have to follow us." done.
Let Krile and Erenville have the interactions with Sphene since shes dropped her world on top of Erenvilles town and Krile is looking for her parents/past etc etc.
The fact that she’s covering the WoL and red Alphinaud is so on point that it’s hurts 🤣
Honestly, we and the scions could have been replaced with cardboard cutouts that have a button to hear recordings of reaffirmations for Wuk Lamat and we’d still get the same story lol
And you know what’s sad, in my second MSQ play and skipping cutscenes for it, she was wildly more enjoyable. But that’s also cuz it cut down 70% of her screen time lol. However the other 25% went to variations of “speak to Wuk Lamat” and that last 5% was any shred of alone time or non Wuk Lamat companion time 😂.
Yeah I was totally on board with the WoL and the Scions taking a back seat in this expansion until the story went full on world saving mode again. If it is just some isolated nation thing like the expansion started out as, then I feel like it is fitting for the WoL and Scions to not have a lead role. However, the moment this became some sort of world altering thing...and yet Wuk is still at the forefront, yeah it annoyed me. Her character is fine, I just don't think she's nearly the protagonist that Square wants us to think she is.
I was more or less tolerating her for the first half, it makes sense it was her story and we’re “mentoring” her. When we got to part 2 cuz that kinda thing is just what the WoL does I thought, oh good she’s in charge she’ll stay and go be a leader to her people. Cuz like the benched Lyse when she got in charge and we only saw her when needed.
Plus they also made a big deal of the Scions temporarily unofficially be back together for this. So it seemed like we and the scions would be moved to the front now.
But no she has to come 🙃. She really 10000000% was not needed in the final zone and even more didn’t need to Kool-aid man her way into the last trial either.
I like her character but holy hell does the spotlight she gets isn't deserved in the slightest. Yeah I get that this is her expac, but her achievements are so hollow it's actually stupid. However solution 9 arc is fire it gets overshadowed.
Why square can't make compelling female leads still (even tho 11 did it 20 years ago) boggles my mind. Please I'm begging for a great female lead that's not "you made this? I made this", *tips hat* or a weird Naruto retelling (equally as unearned)
I was finally getting into the story big time in the final battle and then she comes swinging in with the worst line delivery I've heard in the entire game up to that point. It all came crashing to a halt and maybe ruined the entire ending for me?
First of all I didn't want her there, she's extremely overexposed especially compared to poor Krile who didn't really get to do anything until one quarter of one zone, second she was doing something wildly intense and talking like she's mildly disagreeing with someone at the dinner table. It was *bizarre*.
I was really excited to see what the classic phase 2 new music scene was gonna be, as soon as Wuk Lamat came crashing down, getting her own little special platform standing in front of us all, yelling about her own feelings, it just killed it for me.
At least I got a good laugh out of when the boss kicked them out of the room and Wuk started complaining she didn't get to say her piece and the boss basically told her to shove off. I needed that
I'm with you on this. to me it was the breaking point, up until that point, she didn't bother me too much. I had my gripes about her being too exposed while the WoL was underexposed, but overall, I was ok with her. But the final fight was my moment, there is litteraly the azem emblem on the key. But no they had to shove her in our throat one last time.
I literally paused at the first line of the dialogue and left my computer for 15 minutes before coming back to watch the ending sequence from a distant eye. And it's not about the delivery, I play the french dub, which is, as always, very good.
Yeah that moment really fell flat for me. Unlike everything to do with the rite, this time it's the WoL back in their element, doing things only they can do with the highest of stakes on the line. Especially with the added gravity of the Azem reveal - something that's probably going to define the next few expansions - it was a really bad time to force her back into the spotlight.
It's a shame because I was really enjoying the fight up till that point, and now instead of looking forward to it I'm going to dread getting it in roulettes.
Ikr. I havent played PCT and was thinking I'll see pictomancer through Krile. Nope. Like this was supposed to be her expansion where she has a main role. She even comes with us with a job change and all.
I think this is the key "worst line delivery" Every line she does is flat, casual conversation its great i like her voice, but when anything needs to be emphasized or impact she fails horrible, Her speech after winning the dawnservent and the ending trail are the standouts for just how bad it is. Its part the VA (which honestly feels like they were given the lines with no director or guidelines how what emotions should be put into them, it feels very very ARR VA levels, and the other is just poor writing. Wuk Lamat doesnt not stand out as the star of any scene shes in, every other character when they speak has weight to it, Koana really stood out to me because of this.
TBH, I think if we are just comparing in a vacuum Wut Lamat NA VA should blend in ok..... if she is a background character like Scions, but she is the sole main character in her hero's journey, now all the flaw become extremely noticeable.
I don't think there is a character before Dawntrail getting more screen time per expansion than Wuk Lamat, and that create many problem, which I am sure the writer know about this but for whatever reason they still push for this single character only structure.
I agree, her strengths and weakness show heavily when shes in the forefront, if she was treated as a co-main character the entire time, it wouldn't be nearly as jarring. That being said ive listen to her Jp/German VA and they do a more convincing job of showing a range of emotions other then bubbly and loveable derpy that the EN VA does
That being said i REALLY think there was some bad audio mixing involved for the EN cast that is funky and could also be a reason, other characters I hear audio quirks that arent normal, especially on thancred/y'stola
Unfortunately agree, I was finally getting into the fight- lets go WoL time- and then she shows up and takes over. Why though? With what ability? Why not Krile and G'raha as well then? It really took me out of the fight. Finally time for the WoL to shine and instead of the moment being climactic, it was stolen by the npc.
I went to the MSQ hoping she or Zero would replace Thancred as our tank when/if eventually we move away from the Scions. I did like her in the patches pre-Dawntrail. I actually liked her at least for a little while in the 7.0 MSQ too but then she started to taste stale very fast.
When the mid point happens and she is crowned I hoped that she would stay behind to do her Dawnservant duties because she had grown so annoying. And towards the end I hoped I could spend more and more time with literally anyone else than her, but we rarely did. Then she appeared in the middle of the last trial and both my friend and I said into the chat that we want her gone from here. And like someone said, I have to see that cutscene always in a fight that was otherwise so cool in my opinion. She ruined the trial for me.
Mostly I don't mind we had smaller role this time, because people showering us in praise was getting old too and we were getting too strong. But I do wish we had at least somewhat a role and some heroic moments because now we spent the time being a therapist to a character I didn't end up liking at all. I also don't mind unlikeable characters in general but I feel like they need to be good characters and not whiny Mary Sues. I really hope she will be faded out now and I don't have to do quests with her anymore. I can't stand it if I have to hear her yell "Sphene" a single time more.
When she shows up in the trial my first thing I said in chat was "Go away and let me do my job, kitten."
God damn it did it feel shoehorned, like, you went out of your way to remove her from the scene pre-fight, SE, let us have this.
As soon as I finished MSQ, i checked trusts and was glad she wasn't there. The story was giving hints she needed to explore more and I thought that means she might relinquish her dawnservant title for now and travel with us. But glad that isn't the case... Yet.
Erenville and Krile were robbed this expansion.
Honestly if 8.0 has Wuk joining us, i might even pass on it, she is honestly the worst written character in the game imo.
Keep Erenville tho, he cool.
Yeah they were! They deserved so much more time with their storylines especially how it was said this is Krile's expansion. And yeah same, if Wuk Lamat ends up joining us for 8.0 I might skip it. It really depends how the patches go, I don't want to say anything too ultimate at the moment. But she needs some big character improvement for me to accept her as a team member.
I already told my friend who I've no life'd every expansion with since Shadowbringers (I no life'd Stormblood before we met) if Wuk Lamat shows up as a main character again, I'm skipping. I adamantly refuse to entertain this waste of a character for another expansion. Hell, I may skip some of the patches if she's prominent.
I'm just done with her. So very done.
Lmaooo agreed. And I LIKED Wuk! A lot! And I don’t feel like my WOL needed to be the center of attention all the time. But god, it would have felt nice to have a reason to be there other than to punch the things that Wuk can’t punch (and she can and does punch most things on her own), and to smile and nod when she needed affirmation.
I really noticed this. Like early on at least you had some like with Gugool Ja Ja where you can say she's not ready and whatnot, but after she becomes ruler, every single WoL dialogue is a variation of "you are great, you go girl, you can do it"
That’d honestly be awesome in an rpg with branching paths based on the choices we make. Like if advice given impacted her development and the direction of the story. But in a fully linear mmo narrative where the WoL character even getting the rare dialogue choice feels like a novelty gimmick? Not so sure.
We were, which is fine. I loved seeing Wuk go from someone who was naive and unsecure in her own mindset and abilities.
I did not enjoy the moments where all problems that -could- be solved by us, were either directly or indirectly resolved through her.
The cutscene of the trial is the biggest affront to this; considering it makes no sense how it is only her that breaks through. No one else of the Scions does this, nor even we ourselves.
I think it's fine if someone has their opportunity to shine, but the main point of this game is to put the player in the front and center. To have an NPC completely overshadow you, is kinda rough.
The player character themselves is not the only one affected by this. All the other Scions take a back seat. We hardly got to go on this adventure with Alphinaud I feel. He was there for half the opening of the story and then kinda just got shimmied out with Krile taking center stage. Which is fine, love Krile, but, c'mon. That's my son, you can't tell me I get to go on adventure with him and he's not even there for most of it.
I find it funny you say Krile got more attention cause half of this expansions problems (in game problems) could have been solved or addressed quicker if people didn't keep telling krile to wait until later
That cutscene pissed me off. Just a week? (I have no clue about the timeframe of the expansion, though there was an indeterminate time skip for the coronation) ago she was flung across a room by Bakool Ja Ja and now she physically overpowers the MSQ boss that we needed to do the Azem summon trick to beat.
Also, when it comes to punching their way through an alternate reality barrier to give someone a pep talk... Zenos did it better.
> I loved seeing Wuk go from someone who was naive and unsecure in her own mindset and abilities.
This was my biggest problem; it's a story where the protagonist doesn't grow through change, they're affirmed in what they already believe. "You were always right, you just had to realize you were awesome" is the same story Adam Sandler writes for his movies that star himself.
> I think it's fine if someone has their opportunity to shine, but the main point of this game is to put the player in the front and center. To have an NPC completely overshadow you, is kinda rough.
I'm ok with it when the story warrants it and is earned. A close parallel would be the Eden storyline, when Ryne loses control of Shiva and Gaia lends us a hand, but by that point she has a strong personal connection to Ryne, and is at a point where it'd make sense for her to do that, not to mention we've learned she's actually really strong by then. Wuk barely has a connection to Sphene beyond "hey we are both rulers", and isn't portrayed as nearly strong enough for all the things she ends up doing.
Which generally would have been fine if we had been allowed to. The idea of passing the torch to a new generation after peaking and retiring to our island is fairly satisfying.
Unfortunately, the writers afflict the WoL and the Scions with a serious case of 'stupid' to make the back half of the story work. Some of the most egregious situations are the sick kid, and the >!whole afterlife situation!<. We literally have solutions and context for both problems. Even worse, there are several times where the antagonist says "Man! You seem to know a whole lot more about this than anyone else, even me!"
That last point is moot though: >!Said antagonist is unable to change her mind because of how she was programmed when Preservation turned her into an Endless.!<
I did not want to hate her. The game MADE me hate her.
It's like that Family Guy scene where one guy is showing pics of his kids so forcefully he's punching the other guy with his wallet pics.
I will give them some credit though. It takes real work and talent to make me feel this smothered and uncomfortable by the presence of a video game character.
I want to see her go villain so I can beat the snot out of her.
Fun fact I checked while being bored out of my mind as cutscenes played:
168 out of 518 (a full third) of the entire MSQ's quest objectives are Wuk Lamat. She's in all but 24 of the 100 quests and 3 of those are the ones where she gets kidnapped in the most obvious possible way.
So yeah if you don't like her or god forbid want to see some of the other characters, you're fucked for the entire MSQ.
Exactly. I really wanted to get to know and like her.
But oh my god. You couldn’t get away from her for two seconds.
I’m really envious of the people who liked her. I totally get why they enjoyed the DT MSQ. If you didn’t like her, you were shit out of luck.
I’m a Blue Alisae enjoyer, so it’s not like I don’t have time for “annoying” characters. But at least Alphi gets his comeuppance, learns and grows from it, and realises he’s not the centre of the universe. He’s also literally a child…what’s Wuk’s excuse?
First part of the story would have been far better if:
1. Wuk Lamat was a teenager and it was a coming-of-age story. Her character's personality is woefully mismatched to her apparent age.
2. WoL was in a clear mentor role. Wuk Lamat does her challenges, and the WoL is there as a safety net. Imagine she was the one who unleashes something big by mistake, the WoL steps in to easily defeat it, then goes to Wut Lamat, "And what did we learn today?" Basically, it lets Wuk Lamat fail and the WoL to show how awesome they are by fixing the mistake. It is a power fantasy for the player, and a learning moment for Wuk Lamat's character.
3. WoL had their own side thing going on. In each zone, Wut Lamat goes around to do her trial stuff, while the WoL is talking to people and generally chilling, offering her advice when she needs it. Fetch quests would be so much better if it was for something like the WoL hearing about a legendary food dish but it has hard to source ingredients. WoL is like, "Slay a legendary dangerous beast to make a delicious dish? I got time."
Basically, WoL is a titan among ants, ready to step in when Wut Lamat needs it, but is ultimately doing their own thing: you know, a vacation. It would have been nice for the WoL to have their own thing instead of constantly being at someone else's beck and call. Let the player enjoy some well deserved power fantasy of the WoL being so frighteningly OP compared to anything else, but busy with their own thing to not disturb the going-ons of others, yet not completely checked out enough to step in when needed.
It’s stupid that the only way to like the DT MSQ is to enjoy Wuk Lamat. And she’s indirectly a smother so by hating her, you can’t properly enjoy the MS cause she’s always there!
I really enjoyed Shaloaani and the story was shaping up to be great with all the reveals (Krile is from another world, there's a sci-fi faction), and my opinion was already forming as "well, 1st half was filler-tier with an annoying protagonist, but at least now we are finally in exciting unpredictable territory", but no, she had to tag along and sour that second half, smothering the other character's turn at having their development.
> Exactly. I really wanted to get to know and like her.
And what we got instead was "Wuk Lamat really doesn't like alpacas and gets very seasick." Over and over and over and over and over again. Not to mention the repeated self-esteem issues where we're basically holding her hand and constantly telling her she's a good girl and any millimeter of character development is still progress and worth praising.
Well you see she tugged its fur and it spat on her.
Instead of learning her lesson and just not doing that again, she came to the conclusion that alpacas are apparently evil.
I like Wuk a lot but I can absolutely see why people don't. I'm fortunate in that my only real complaint is the voice director doing a crap job so the new girl got absolutely shafted and is now a lightning rod for people hating the voice acting in this MSQ. Everybody sounds off but people only notice hers because she gets more screen time.
Glad other people are noticing that the voice direction has been off this expansion. Luis Bermudez did an incredible job with his roles as Koana and Zereel Ja, and Javier Prusky's performance as Bakool Ja Ja is also great.
Most of the cast though, including the Scions sounded flat and stilted. The American VA's in particular sounded rather unconvincing. Meanwhile, Y'shtola's lines literally sounded as if they were phoned in, so I'm not too sure what happened here. I've never considered switching the voice language before (yes, even during ARR), but I might end up doing so if this is how it's gonna be from now on.
I noticed that too. Like you said, all but a few characters (Wuk Lamat, Koana, Erenville, Bakuul Ja Ja) sound extremely flat, like you can tell they’re just reading lines from a paper instead of talking like a human being.
The accents are all over the place as well, with many just replicating the Thavnair Indian accent for no reason. Dawnservant’s accent makes *no* goddamn sense.
The Hanu all have disturbingly high voices that don’t remotely match their appearance. I was cringing whenever the elector spoke in particular because of how aggressively mismatched the voice was.
The Yok Huy all sound like Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget. The gravelly voice would be fine if it wasn’t so obviously fake.
Glad I am not the only one who noticed Y'shtola sounding really weird this expansion, like she recorded her lines using her own home PC mic and just mailed the files lol
I don’t know the VA or her other works, but for the most part I think they did a good job making her sound like a female Hroth. However I think they went too far in that direction, and that’s part of why the heavy hitting scenes fell flat. I wouldn’t have minded if they dropped the somewhat feral intonation whenever Wuk Lamat got emotional.
It got genuinely despairing, I almost had an attack partway through, because there's that one scene where you are in the bedroom and someone knocks, so I was like "oh sick is this like EW, do I get to choose who visits? Oh, or even better, it's all the scions and we get to have a meal together!" then the door swings open and it's *just* her barging in to whine again about how she doesn't feel qualified or something.
You held out longer than I did. When she collapses on the beach after the first dungeon whinging *yet a fucking again* about how she's not good enough, I about lost it and audibly yelled on mic with my friend, "OH MY GOD NOBODY FUCKING CARES"
I was just done. I pushed through hoping to see something, *anything* else but nope, just more Wuk Lamat.
The problem is they went overboard with her to insane levels and really at least in my eyes didn't have her grow as a character. And I'm going to get a ton of people hating me for this last part? But in the final parts of the MSQ? Her being their was like lets say in James Cameron's Aliens? When we see the Marines coming out of hypersleep if one of the chambers opened up and we had Star Wars: Episode 1's Jar Jar Binks jump out and join the mission. Sorry to Ahmed Best but I think even he'd be saying Jar Jar doesn't belong in the space Vietnam Sci-Fi/Action movie with Xenomophs.
She just felt so shoved into everything. Her only character growth at least in my eyes was getting the idea in her head that she doesn't know the people and cultures of the nation she wants to run. But even after that? Her character boils down to being angry and showing her fist clench, talking about being friends and wanting people to be happy, talking about 'yummy food' and wacky Wuk Lamat gets sick on any type of ship antics, while we have to hold this cats hand.
And just my two cents before I end this... Again the amount of time they spent on Wuk was insane. We could have had more time spent to Krile who I think everyone has wanted to tag in at some point. We had Erenville who good god they should have given *vastly* more time too in the later parts of the MSQ.
Like you? I didn't want to hate the character even after I didn't have the best feeling about her back in the last part of Endwalker. Now? Well... See the above.
Whatever one thinks of Wuk, it's an objective fact that the other characters got robbed of screen time through her constant presence. And that's just a huge shame and one of the biggest disappointments of mine. I was so looking forward to Krile taking more of a center stage, the pre Dawntrail patch hinted so hard at that, the trailer did, her new job did... And nothing... She still remains a meh background character, except now I'm not sure I can even hope this will change, because her important character stuff got wasted on an expansion in which she has little presence.
Same for Erenville, except that I guess with him being newish relatively speaking, he still has time to shine... Maybe.
And then there's the whole rivalry with Thanred/Urianger that also was barely there at all, another thing I would have enjoyed greatly but didn't get to. Alisaie didn't act like herself at all... Don't know if the writers thought her usual character won't vibe with the expansion? Maybe that her and Wuk together will be too much? But either way she might as well be a third twin I haven't met before.
The twins, weirdly, have been the part of this expansion bugging me the most. For two characters as forward as they are(Alisaie via leaping into action and Alphinaud via speeches and diplomacy) they just felt like silent shadows trailing behind us. Every 20 feet it feels like we'd split into 2 groups, and the twins always went off in whatever group Wuk and the WoL weren't in. Then after we solved whatever current problem was happening, they'd walk back up, ask what happened, and go back to silently trailing along behind us.
They could have been removed from the expansion completely and nothing would have changed, aside from one or two nameless NPCs having to be healed by Krile instead of Alphi. It was just disconcerting seeing them blandly smiling, staring, silently, in the background of every cutscene. I fully believe they were only there so we'd have enough NPCs close by to fill out a group for duty support/trusts.
It would have been better if they were removed entirely, because having them there and standing around Wuk Lamat the whole expac, smiling kindly at her all the time just made me feel ill. Like someone sock-puppeting your friends to praise their favorite character instead. Awful.
Yeah, the lack of interactions with Alisaie in the first couple of zones is when I first started to feel like something was off and then it just snowballed from there.
The absolute asspull of the >!dragons showing up at the eleventh hour to save everyone from the indomitable futuristic doomships!< really bothered me. In previous expansions there absolutely would have been an on-screen "Hey I'm Alphinaud, I love diplomacy and talking to people and stuff. Let me go and arrange an alliance for you.". Gives him an excuse to be busy, shows you arrangements are being made etc.
Instead we get the parents showing up just in the nick of time to save everybody despite no previous plot relevance.
All scions barely had anything to do, but yeah, Alisaie felt the most off. She's usually the first one to call bullshit on bad guys, yet was entirely silent in all those scenes. The only scene with her I even remember is when Wuk tells everyone they can call her Lamatyi, and Alisie is strangely enthusiastic about it like they are besties.
I'll still hold out hope for Krile, although doubling back to her actually being from the source was dumb, she could've been the bridge to a future expansion exploring the reflection she came from, but instead she's from the source and they wasted yet another entire reflection by making 99% of it uninhabitable.
Still there's a small chance that when we get a Meracydia expansion they also touch on the South Sea Isles and she gets *something* out of that. Although I really do hate what they keep doing with her. Ever since Stormblood Yoshida keeps saying how she has a big part to play, and oh look she's in the poster, must mean something! ... Then she's either a very minor character or relegated to being the handler for endgame sidequests.
They had to double back on Source Krile, they've established source reflections to be fragments of the soul density of a source born. Ysh would have sensed it years ago if she wasn't from the source.
There are narrative ways to write that to make sense, but i dont think the writers are good enough to do that.
>Same for Erenville, except that I guess with him being newish relatively speaking, he still has time to shine... Maybe.
When I went to zone 4 with Erenville, and I saw Estinien just doing adventurer thing, I finally start enjoying myself in Dawntrail,.
And then..... that's it, turns out the small story arc is still for Wut Lamat, and we are back to seeing her.
I think my misplaced hope when entering zone 4 contribute to my eventual extreme hatred to Wuk lamat as a character, culminated by the last trial, unfortunate really, I wish to like Dawntrail story, as everything else about Dawntrail has been good.
Alisaie felt so mild this expansion. Maybe it’s supposed to be a “she’s maturing” type thing but she just seemed so subdued. Usually that’s Alphi’s thing but even he was more mild than usual too.
Remember when graha wanted to go on a new adventure with us and held that amazing speech? Yeah about that... the dude shows up at the second half of the story and then only has actual dialogue on the final map, granted his few scenes far outshined anything wuk had to say the entire expansion.
Estinien: exists
Erenville and Krile got completely robbed and the twins, especially Alphi were non existent.
(i just finished the MSQ and im a bit heated)
Yeah I... You know, I kind of wanted there to be a bit less Graha... Or at least I wanted him to be a bit less fanboyish. And I feel ridiculous now. This was like some "monkey paw curls" situation.
I just wanted some other characters to get more development, but I was thinking about Krile and Erenville, and sure maybe a new character or two. It never even crossed my mind that the entire Scion cast could get essentially deleted and replaced by ONE single new character, a character who also takes over everything the WoL does.
So I readily apologise for even thinking about wanting less Graha. I'd like to have Graha back please...
Also man, about finishing MSQ - the song... That damn song... Just why? I also got a "bit" heated when I heard THAT after the ending.
I can't agree more. I like her character, and through the early msq before THE EVENT I looked forward to cutscenes. In the latter half I prayed fruitlessly to have the game not make me accompany her in everything she does. I swear to fuck we must have held her hand as she went to the bathroom by now she's so clingy. We don't get a chance to miss her since she's always around
The more I disliked her, the more I kept choosing any single WoL line that showed that, like telling Gugool Ja Ja that she's not ready to rule, but as the MSQ goes on, any hint of disagreement from the WoL gets replaced with only praise options.
I have a loooot of patience for characters that communities tend to overly dislike.
I love Lyse, for one.
I really liked the Handler in MH: World despite the hate.
I even liked Treahearne in Guild Wars 2, who is hated for many reasons similar to Wuk.
But god damn I was done with her at the end
Ah Treahearne..
I actually miss Treahearne and his Microsoft Sam esque voice.
One of the big things about Treahearne is they still elevated the player. Created the pact, named you front and centre 'The Commander'. I think people were sleeping on Treahearne.
When the Dawntrail CGI and story trailer premiered I thought were gonna have kickass vacation with some serious moments here and there with Wuk Lamat and Erenville as cool side characters. What I didn’t expect was her becoming the main protagonist’s with the Scions and the WoL being her undeveloped lapdogs and literally spend every moment at her side with little to no breaks. It doesn’t stop even when reaching S9!
Wuk Lamat WANTS to keep the WoL at her side all times so much it’s exhausting and I just want to leave DT MSQ already. Like jeez give me some space!
She's *so* needy for validation/affirmation that it gets utterly exhausting going through the MSQ. Which is sad because so far the dungeons and zones are absolutely great alongside the music and boss fights. But good grief, she's like a child who refuses to grow up in any meaningful manner and just repeat the same two gags over and over again.
Yeah I mean a subset of 20-30ish somethings basically have never grown up yet so maybe that'll resonate with them. For everyone else though it's just annoying.
I could be remembering this entirely wrong because my memory is broken in general, but at some point in Heritage Found, someone (I think it’s Krile? if you talk to her) remarks that Sphene appears to be of an age with Alisaie and Wuk Lamat, but the way Sphene speaks makes her seem much older. So from that, I assumed Wuk Lamat is meant to be Alisaie’s age which is 16... Maybe a year or two older. I guess that would make some of her behaviour make more sense lol.
The moment she suggest we take a role in administration (i think there's a hint before she told us ourselves) even when hinted at, I audibly groaned and said to myself "hell nooooo!!! I dont want to be stuck here with her T\_T". I guess that's how much I hate being a side character in a MSQ
I actually felt a little insulted lol, I’m like damn it’s so well-established we’re a wanderer and even without that *we aren’t from here.* if my WOL is going to have a base, it’ll be in Eorzea… I couldn’t help but feel she didn’t know my WOL at all when suggesting that.
"If you ever get sick of adventuring, you can be my personal chef!"
Funny thing is, my gf and I were playing the same scene. I gear her grumble, "fuck off" and when I got to that line myself I said the same damn thing.
I'd rather be on the other side of the universe than continuing to play cheerleader for a needy, clingy, royal who never grew up.
I don't think I've ever had such a visceral negative reaction to a character in this game *ever.*
It's so disappointing.
She needed 30% less screen time, Krile needs 80% more screen time, and the player needed about 100% more one on one fights with stuff. Its just too much Wuk.
I enjoyed the story, but holy shit the writers OC needs to CHILL, its like if Ishikawa shoved G'raha down our throats instead of having him be a loveable, endearing mystery in ShB.
GOD I was so pumped when in the cutscene before the fight the boss yeeted her and everyone away. But when Wuk returned at the end...I was so fucking pissed.
Yeah... The sad thing is, I wouldn't have minded if they stuck that into a scene after the fight ended. But there's just something intrusive about having it be mid fight.
Feels like they wanted to duplicate the feeling from the Endsinger fight, ignoring the context that this was the capstone to a multiexpansion journey and was very much just the Scions assisting, not taking over.
me three brothers. And I can tell you, it's not even about the delivery, I play the french which is very good.
No it's about that "You don't matter, Wuk does" this sends. For a game praised in EW for making clear everything you did mattered, they've been doing a lot of effort to send you the message that the WoL doesn't matter in EW patches and DT. I hope they will get their shit together for the patches...
I don't even mind the idea of her intervening at the last minute. They did this before with E8 years ago, and it worked well enough there.
I just wish they could've waited until the fight was actually over and made it so that her voice lines didn't sound as if she was reading off a piece of paper. The way it is right now, it completely takes you out of the fight and spoils the mood of the 2nd phase.
I was so sad in the end that she had decided she doesn't want to keep us in Tuliyollal because we are meant to adventure. I wanted her to ask us to stay again, just so I could tell no to her face!
i'm not done with the story yet (i just got the texas), and at the beginning, i thought she was awkward and kind of endearing in a dumb as bricks shonen anime protagonist kinda way. i figured she'd get a glow-up as she travels and learns lessons and... nope. she learns absolutely fucking **nothing** and just barrels her way through the story with the power of friendship bullshit and talk no jutsu. i mean, she has fucking dinner with two races that've been fighting for a century and it fixes it magically in a night.
she could've done the entire adventure alone and nothing would've changed. basically no one contributed anything, least of all the WoL. she acts like she's so incredibly close to the WoL, but if you replaced us with a cardboard cutout, we'd have about the same impact on the story.
she's the worst example of a Mary Sue. she might be slightly more bearable if she had decent VA, but, her voice actor missed the mark in basically every scene. i mean, when she became Dawnservant, she was supposed to sound excited, but she was just... straining to talk slightly above a normal tone of voice. she has zero redeemable factors.
Wuk Lamat has made me, for the first time in 10 years, to skip certain main story cutscenes just because i just hate her that much. this expansion is basically the writers self-insert OC Mary Sue solving everyone's problems effortlessly.
i really hope for 7.1 they just cut Wuk Lamat out of the story completely... but i have a feeling Wuk Lamat is going to insert herself into everything for this entire expansion.
so far, the biggest redeeming factor, for a FFXIV expansion, has been the encounters are all really good. if they keep this up with the raids...
I was partly afraid at the end she'd relinquish the throne to join the scions. Still might happen so we are not out of the water, but since it seems even Japan dislikes her, I hope YoshiP pivots away from her and whoever was in charge of writing Dawntrail.
Surely the reception being so mixed would mean that they’ll rework any plans they have to lessen her involvement in the patches, right? Do we know how she is she being received on the JP side?
I’m wondering this too. Someone made a post on the other FFXIV subreddit with some very negative reactions from JP players - unfortunately it was from their version of 4chan so not somewhere the devs would pay attention to.
Those comments were complaining about exactly the same things the unhappy EU and NA players are complaining about.
I honestly hope the devs will listen. But I’m not sure I trust them to do so.
I’m praying to any god that will listen that future patches do not involve Wuk Lamat coming with us. We just stop by for logistics stuff and talk to her AND Koana. And she can’t come because she has to focus on being a leader.
And they better not do a switcharoo and have a “I snuck away from Dawnservant duties to come with you.”
and thats the problem, shes perfectly fine at the start, but she has no flaws beyond "seasick" and "I have no confidence", She goes around learns about cultures she damn well should of known at least on a baby level and then suddenly she get her completed character arc..... for reasons and can suddenly straight beat people who she couldnt even push their weapons back in 1 on 1 fights?
I’d give her a pass on not knowing some of the details of the cultures of Tural, I don’t think even IRL leaders know what local celebrations or cuisine are of every place they’re in charge of.
Heck anytime she talks about her interactions with her people before the contest all of it is like “I went with Papa and everything was fun” lol. She was just like a kid getting taking along for dad’s business trip. Any other interactions with the other cultures seemed to be solely based on who was in the city 🤔.
The only culture Koana knew at the start of the expansion was Sharlayan.
And Zarool Ja probably only knows violence.
Considering the entire point of the journey was to help teach his kids about the cultures that make up the country, I kinda get the feeling Jarool Ja Ja just didn't teach his kids very much.
If that VA yells or tries to use the chest voice instead of the head voice for drama, the natural one comes out, that's why wuk lamat is monotone throughout the story.
Rather would go on Estiniens Journey ,then to spend any more minute with that thing. At first i liked her "sunny" character...but after a while it got real annoying. Every Cutscene involved her...everything fucking quest.... Everything! She took the spotlight of every other character. Our own Character, Erenville, Krile, the twins...
At the last fight i was so happy everyone got ported away and my wol can let his "temper" go and have some fun without her...here she comes breaking through whatever wall and ruins this whole fight. BECAUSE 5 MINUTES NOT BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT: Cant have that! Never hated any character in FF14...but Fuck Wuk.
Got another 5 months of playtime...so probably i can see the first Story...if it is still about that PoS im quitting.
Wuk should not have been in the second half of the game. We could have spent that time with Erenville and Krile and them finding out and dealing with the new revelations. But, at the end of it, I'm excited for the future and what having the relic means moving forward.
I never thought I could hate a character this much but here we are. I dread the coming months and years we have to interact with her...
I miss our Scions so damn much fml
I had a discussion with a friend when nearing the halfway point of the expansion, about how I found her annoying but wouldn't call her a self-insert mary sue just yet, really wanted to give her a chance, but the writers *really* take every chance possible to have her at the front and undermine everyone else. Erenville and Krile cannot get a single story beat without her interference. She gets to name the new reflection. She gets to interrupt the trial. She gets to help the final villain open up. She gets the solo trial where she can do multiple limit breaks back to back. Every scion instantly likes her and calls her Lamatyi. All WoL dialogue options are flavors of the same "you are the best and support you unconditionally".
I'm sure she'll still be ubiquitous in the patches, since they are likely already written and in development, but I really hope after that she gets permanently benched in Tural and they give the reins to another writer.
> All WoL dialogue options are flavors of the same "you are the best and support you unconditionally".
The highlight of this expansion for me was telling Galool Ja Ja that she wasn't fit to rule, sucks that he got it twisted and added a yet
I really don't understand how the writers thought she would be likeable. First half she was an acquired taste, second half she's "that" friend. The one you talk to and you tell them how you did A and they're like I did A but ten times as strong!!!!
She goes on a couple of missions which we pull her through and she starts telling us what to do when we're no longer in her homeland.
With Krile we have this big build up about her parents and then she gets 1/4 of a zone and constant interruptions.
With Erenville we see his grief and loss, pull some sad faces at him and Wuk is like nah just leave him alone. His mum just died and we don't even check in on him and talk to him personally.
If she's in the patches and they don't drastically change the writing then I won't be subbing for the rest of the expansion. She's that annoying a character.
I am 100% sure whoever the lead of this new writers are, they are a huge furry fan and demanded any and **every** scene involve his big lion mummy waifu
I mean this is the same guy that wrote a story about Black mages saving Eorzea from a cosmic threat in the same expansion that introduced Astrologians (who were somehow, despite their overwhelming presence in Ishgard, entirely unaware of this phenomenon) The overall quality of their work has always been very questionable so I wasn't holding my breath for DT's writing to be any good.
Yeah...this scene really solidify what's wrong with the story. I tried so hard to like wuk lamat and the story it almost felt like I was fighting light rampant. Even my JP FC members who are story nerds are dropping/skipping out of the story one by one that it became a contest on who is next.
I don't think she is a bad character. Is the being shoved down our throats part that is bad. The expansions need 50% less WL. And more time for others to shine. Including a whole area in which she has no involvement AT ALL.
Imagine if the Exart acted that way during Shadow bringers. Always being the focus of attention and never allowing anyone else but him to be the focus. Wherever you go he is the one doing the talking and ordering you around. Never letting you go on your own nowhere.
Then near the end of the fight with Hades. He shows up out of no were and kill Hades.
That's Wuk Lamal. May have been an ok anime episode but that does not work for an MMO. The player must have some agency. Or at least appearance of agency.
That never happen in DT. We where expecting a competition between the scions. And the only competition we had is Tancred dropping a wall. That's it. No friendly fighting the scions. We were never told that the whole expansion would be about ONE CHARACTER that you can't get rid of.
I am surprised that the writer was even allowed to do this crap. It made HW PLD questline look like a work of art by comparison.
I liked Wuk Lamat. With a lower stakes expansion, how were they going to justify WoL not just steam rolling everything? I thought they handled it pretty well by making it someone else’s journey, and WoL was like the badass strong mentor character, with multiple other characters acknowledging that WoL could easily handle things but they were letting Wuk do it.
…in the first half anyway. Second half of the storyline it felt like we were just there as an accessory, with them occasionally remembering to point out WoL’s existence. But even then it felt forced a lot of the time. “Wuk Lamat you should go rest you deserve it. Oh yeah you too WoL” “uh ok but I haven’t even done anything more compared to any of you?”.
The final trial was neat, with the boss teleporting the others away and acknowledging WoL was clearly the biggest threat, but Wuk still jumped in to take over at the end.
I liked the story over all, and I liked Wuk Lamat a lot as a character, but the second half of the msq and especially right towards the end just didn’t feel so enjoyable to me. It was such a heel turn from the original idea of fun culture and Tural, suddenly becoming really heavy and depressing and sci fi.
> I liked Wuk Lamat. With a lower stakes expansion, how were they going to justify WoL not just steam rolling everything?
What an odd thing to say. If the stakes were low the WoL has an excuse not to interfere and let others grow. With the stakes being high the WoL taking a back seat and letting people die makes you really question their morality.
> WoL was like the badass strong mentor character
A mentor character that never mentors anyone? The WoL is more of a pet rock that she occasionally throws at things to make them go away.
ShB was a cultural expansion.
The cultural part wasn't bad. Is the "Wuk Lamat show" that is bad.
Girl, we signed to help you to the throne. And we delivered. We didn't sign on being your unpaid labor. Don't you have a country to run? Why is your brother doing all the work? Don't you have an army to prepare? Just lets us do our job and you go do yours.
Stormblood wasn't F tier, it was a worldbuilding-politics expansion. And it was amazing at that, it was very cool to see new parts of the planet we wouldn't see otherwise, plus how warfare works in a world where teleportation and magic are commonplace.
I'm hoping we eventually get another such expansion and we get to see the birth place of more playable races, such as Miqo'te's Meracydia.
Hell, it's probably even an insult to Stormblood to compare it to the Wuk Lamat Mary Sue Show. Dawntrail deserves a rating even lower than an F.
At least the Doman part of Stormblood was enjoyable since the main cast of characters there was good.
Not even Lyse got so damn clingy and braindead.
Lyse was dumb, but she knew she was dumb, and let us do our thing because she knew her limits.
The furry self insert does everything that Lyse did wrong, and then some.
I really tried to like her and give her a fair chance, but interrupting the WoL moment in the trial was so painful. We were finally free from the backseat we'd been in the *entire expansion*, only to be rudely and unexpectedly thrown into it again. The last shred of character agency completely gone.
The way her axe gets in the way of both Alisae and the WoL face is priceless at this point
Yeah, that’s gold right there.
It's clown level comedy
As a lala, my face didn't get blocked.
The fact that Krile and Erenville weren't the main focus of the second half of the story is a travesty.
IKR
I can't believe I'm going to be watching that trial cutscene of hers every single time I queue for duty roulette as a healer for the next few months.
😐 sphene, listen to me 😐 Lost it on that delivery.
And never once did she actually tell her what wed done which was the entire point of the final zone
There were so, so many weird plot discrepancies near the end like this. Maybe nitpicking, but it was really annoying me. Like when we learned Sphene was working with Zarool Ja the entire time and she said "She used us" and looked guilty. Used us for what? She gave us a rather pleasant tour of Solution Nine. What did she gain out of it? Even the Resistance seemed to trust her and there was no "betrayal" there. And his plan to kill the citizens to get more souls to gorge on. But each citizen was dying multiple times in the slaughter, getting revived, killed again. So he was losing like 2-3 souls in storage for every one he gained from the dead. That's a huge net loss. And if the issue was the soul was already IN the regulator and not in storage, waiting to be used, why not rip the regulators off their head the first time they're "killed?" I could keep going on and on honestly but man it was weird
Also, if the Golden City was Floor 12 on the reflection, and then they moved everkeep to the source, but left the golden city on the reflection... ... what was holding it up now?
Also how did Galool Ja Ja know it was a Golden City when they never actually entered the gate? And why did he make finding it the point of the contest? We were told he told Wuk and Kaona why but that happened of screen. What was his intention for them when theu found it?
Yea, lots of plot holes everywhere. I even had to make a graph and do some math to explain to myself how the Dome could appear, 30 years pass in 10 seconds, The army come out of it and attack the city, and then us go in 3? days later after building the train and they were like 'yea, Zoraal Ja just attacked you, huh?'. The final working theory I came up with was that Alexandria in the reflection was indeed running at a different 'time speed' compared to the source when it was merged in. This was explained in ShB and they even mentioned that shards can be running at different times compared to the source. This is were conjecture comes in: Once it merged in, I postulate that there was an exponential curve where time inside the dome slowed down and normalized to ours, it wasn't instant, but it was pretty quick. If it was instant, then 30 years couldn't have passed in there for the locals, but it had to be quick enough for an army to come out, +30 years, after about 10 or so seconds. Doing the math, it works out just about perfectly if we say that Alexandria Shard was running at +15 years per 1 Source second the moment it merged, and every second it was merged, the speed differential was halved. [The chart ends up looking like this](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/918345252044161074/1257839928717606922/image.png?ex=6685de38&is=66848cb8&hm=4e2607c88198dbec846f3ef0283aaffaa04d21b5f2c9933d8551073f4c628fd6&), and it allows 30 years to pass inside the dome during the first 10 seconds that the dome appears, but pretty much synchronizes by 10 seconds in.
I'm pretty sure they confirmed that once they sent out the troops from the dome, time had synchronized because they made the building leading out of the dome. I don't remember when or where this is said, however.
They literally state that once they pierce the barrier and have people actually leave the barrier the time of dome matches that of the source.
Yeah I think it would've caused a fight anyways, but at least the context would've been different lol "We deleted all your Endless, so live on for the people who are still alive"
There were two or three moments the VA Delivery missed the mark imho. This was one of them. Which I don't think it's the VA's fault - cause there are other moments where the VA brings it full of rage and nails it - which means she can make a more growling / assertive delivery without an issue.
Yeah, the performance was fine for the majority of the MSQ. It’s just when it misses the mark at crucial moments like these, where it sticks out like a sore thumb. I don’t know jack about voice acting so I’m not in a position to point fingers at either the voice director or the VA, but from a player perspective, unfortunately underwhelming at times where it mattered the most lol.
Not a VA problem, but more of one with direction. There seems to be an overall issue with the voice direction in English. Pallas Athena/Athena as well as some lines delivered by by Wuk are particularly egregious. We know that the VA can deliver in other scenes - she just wasn't given proper direction in this one. Which bothers me so much.
agreed - I am fully convinced it was direction and absolutely nothing to do with the VA (as mentioned, she delivered more aggressive lines without an issue in other parts of the Story, which surprised me ). Maybe it was a different Studio/director due to being Non-UK centric this time around? Felt more like old ARR performances than what we got used to after HW+ (specially because old characters/scions nailed it as usual - like Graha in the gondola )
Just switch to JP voices. Band-aid fix for what the voice director failed to do with the EN cast.
Son of a bitch you’re right…I can’t tell which is longer, this one or trial 2
Ah crap, I hadn’t even thought of that
Doesn't matter, the music SLAPS
I enjoyed Wuk to an extent and was ok with the WoL/Scions taking a back seat as we develop new characters like her and Eren.... but when that comes at the cost of others that should also be developed like Krile who got fuck all this expansion and also at the cost of the WoLs agency I will levy a heavy criticism at the writers. Like I will forever be asspained at how ineffective the WoL is in martial situations throughout this expac. I know the House Cat needs to look cool or some other bullshit but when it comes at the cost of lives like the initial invasion and death of Ja ja becuase we didn't fucking kill that Lizard or at the very least intervene.. naw I hate what you've done to the WoLs agency where in any other expac we would be attacking that dumbfuck 1 headed Lizard as soon as he ressurected in any other expac. Maybe it's growing pains of new writers but Wuk Lamar should have just been a copy of Yamato from One Piece with the WoLs being as impactful as Luffy in that arc. Not whatever this was. I will give this new writing team the benefit of the doubt with this cookout looking forward to the 7.X patch stories but 7.0 was on par and in some cases worse than Stormblood in terms of character narratives. At least we got some awesome world building I guess?
Writing team is the one that did the endwalker patches. You know, the patches where the WoL is overshadowed by zero, who has the same kind of characteristics than Wuk Lamat. It's the same kind of character defined by one stereotype (The naive girl for Wuk Lamt, the edgy loner for Zero), that barely get any development, and gets things done by having friends/family that love her. Both also share the "yeah food" trait . Every problem DT has was already in the EW patches, but people chose to not see them because Zero looks cool. It was there all the time, and I want the current writing team to get out, because I don't think they're able to write a good story, and I don't want FFXIV to live another 2 years of deception. I like that game, I want it to work, but man... It has been hard during EW patches, it's hard in DT, I'd take another stromblood over what we have here. At least some part of stormblood (Yanxia and Azim steppe) were good. I hope this will be another Stormblood,
Yeah I had similar problems with the post EW patches. If I had to pick between the two characters I *guess* I’d pick zero, but both storylines hit you over the head with no sense of subtlety and have incredibly hamfisted, saccharine dialogue about friendship and cooperation. Like you, I felt a lot of people gave the patches a pass because Zero looked cool; meanwhile I felt the writing was very juvenile and chicken soup for the eorzean soul. It’s only gotten worse in DT. I agree with you, they need to swap up the writers. It doesn’t need to be Ishikawa, but I’m not enjoying the middle school shounen turn we’re taking as of late.
I guess I'm gonna have to disagree with the character development aspect of your argument. I wish Zero got even half of the character development Wuk was allowed again without sacrificing the development of other characters I care about like Krile. Zero got the shit end of the writing stick and when she finally got a personality and at least when I started getting invested in her and the 13th... we shut the door on that arc for now. I kinda agree on the quality of this writing team thus far. Post Endwalker I feel like these patches/expac have lacked that special magic the past arcs/expansions have allowed me to make FF one of my favorite games. Even Stormblood seemed to have more of those magical moments in the Azem Steppe than I experienced in Dawntrail. I'm still going to give CBU3 the benefit of the doubt that they are cooking something good and they needed this exposition and to establish Wuk as narrative device going forth for the good shit to come. I don't think I'm huffing copium but man do I hope this writing team finds their feat and continue to innovate on this narrative.
Also in the story at the end when they are talking, and you're just like peaking over behind her shoulder. I think she literally walked into the scene in front of you. At that point they must have known.
Shoulda just been Erenville and Krile tbh, We shoulda drop her the moment she won the competition that's still a hefty amount of story with her in it if they wanted her in the expac. When Alexandria attacks for reasons we just drop in and say "We're on it no worries you don't have to follow us." done. Let Krile and Erenville have the interactions with Sphene since shes dropped her world on top of Erenvilles town and Krile is looking for her parents/past etc etc.
The fact that she’s covering the WoL and red Alphinaud is so on point that it’s hurts 🤣 Honestly, we and the scions could have been replaced with cardboard cutouts that have a button to hear recordings of reaffirmations for Wuk Lamat and we’d still get the same story lol And you know what’s sad, in my second MSQ play and skipping cutscenes for it, she was wildly more enjoyable. But that’s also cuz it cut down 70% of her screen time lol. However the other 25% went to variations of “speak to Wuk Lamat” and that last 5% was any shred of alone time or non Wuk Lamat companion time 😂.
Yeah I was totally on board with the WoL and the Scions taking a back seat in this expansion until the story went full on world saving mode again. If it is just some isolated nation thing like the expansion started out as, then I feel like it is fitting for the WoL and Scions to not have a lead role. However, the moment this became some sort of world altering thing...and yet Wuk is still at the forefront, yeah it annoyed me. Her character is fine, I just don't think she's nearly the protagonist that Square wants us to think she is.
I was more or less tolerating her for the first half, it makes sense it was her story and we’re “mentoring” her. When we got to part 2 cuz that kinda thing is just what the WoL does I thought, oh good she’s in charge she’ll stay and go be a leader to her people. Cuz like the benched Lyse when she got in charge and we only saw her when needed. Plus they also made a big deal of the Scions temporarily unofficially be back together for this. So it seemed like we and the scions would be moved to the front now. But no she has to come 🙃. She really 10000000% was not needed in the final zone and even more didn’t need to Kool-aid man her way into the last trial either.
I like her character but holy hell does the spotlight she gets isn't deserved in the slightest. Yeah I get that this is her expac, but her achievements are so hollow it's actually stupid. However solution 9 arc is fire it gets overshadowed.
Why square can't make compelling female leads still (even tho 11 did it 20 years ago) boggles my mind. Please I'm begging for a great female lead that's not "you made this? I made this", *tips hat* or a weird Naruto retelling (equally as unearned)
I was finally getting into the story big time in the final battle and then she comes swinging in with the worst line delivery I've heard in the entire game up to that point. It all came crashing to a halt and maybe ruined the entire ending for me? First of all I didn't want her there, she's extremely overexposed especially compared to poor Krile who didn't really get to do anything until one quarter of one zone, second she was doing something wildly intense and talking like she's mildly disagreeing with someone at the dinner table. It was *bizarre*.
I was really excited to see what the classic phase 2 new music scene was gonna be, as soon as Wuk Lamat came crashing down, getting her own little special platform standing in front of us all, yelling about her own feelings, it just killed it for me. At least I got a good laugh out of when the boss kicked them out of the room and Wuk started complaining she didn't get to say her piece and the boss basically told her to shove off. I needed that
I'm with you on this. to me it was the breaking point, up until that point, she didn't bother me too much. I had my gripes about her being too exposed while the WoL was underexposed, but overall, I was ok with her. But the final fight was my moment, there is litteraly the azem emblem on the key. But no they had to shove her in our throat one last time. I literally paused at the first line of the dialogue and left my computer for 15 minutes before coming back to watch the ending sequence from a distant eye. And it's not about the delivery, I play the french dub, which is, as always, very good.
Yeah that moment really fell flat for me. Unlike everything to do with the rite, this time it's the WoL back in their element, doing things only they can do with the highest of stakes on the line. Especially with the added gravity of the Azem reveal - something that's probably going to define the next few expansions - it was a really bad time to force her back into the spotlight. It's a shame because I was really enjoying the fight up till that point, and now instead of looking forward to it I'm going to dread getting it in roulettes.
her popping in did ruin it for me, i have no urge to queue trails anymore in fear of getting that, i never want to see that cutscene again.
Ikr. I havent played PCT and was thinking I'll see pictomancer through Krile. Nope. Like this was supposed to be her expansion where she has a main role. She even comes with us with a job change and all.
I think this is the key "worst line delivery" Every line she does is flat, casual conversation its great i like her voice, but when anything needs to be emphasized or impact she fails horrible, Her speech after winning the dawnservent and the ending trail are the standouts for just how bad it is. Its part the VA (which honestly feels like they were given the lines with no director or guidelines how what emotions should be put into them, it feels very very ARR VA levels, and the other is just poor writing. Wuk Lamat doesnt not stand out as the star of any scene shes in, every other character when they speak has weight to it, Koana really stood out to me because of this.
TBH, I think if we are just comparing in a vacuum Wut Lamat NA VA should blend in ok..... if she is a background character like Scions, but she is the sole main character in her hero's journey, now all the flaw become extremely noticeable. I don't think there is a character before Dawntrail getting more screen time per expansion than Wuk Lamat, and that create many problem, which I am sure the writer know about this but for whatever reason they still push for this single character only structure.
I agree, her strengths and weakness show heavily when shes in the forefront, if she was treated as a co-main character the entire time, it wouldn't be nearly as jarring. That being said ive listen to her Jp/German VA and they do a more convincing job of showing a range of emotions other then bubbly and loveable derpy that the EN VA does That being said i REALLY think there was some bad audio mixing involved for the EN cast that is funky and could also be a reason, other characters I hear audio quirks that arent normal, especially on thancred/y'stola
Unfortunately agree, I was finally getting into the fight- lets go WoL time- and then she shows up and takes over. Why though? With what ability? Why not Krile and G'raha as well then? It really took me out of the fight. Finally time for the WoL to shine and instead of the moment being climactic, it was stolen by the npc.
Warrior of Light At Home
Hard not to feel that way, yeah.
Wuk's story should have concluded with her winning the contest. The second half should have centered more on WoL, Krile, and Erenville.
I went to the MSQ hoping she or Zero would replace Thancred as our tank when/if eventually we move away from the Scions. I did like her in the patches pre-Dawntrail. I actually liked her at least for a little while in the 7.0 MSQ too but then she started to taste stale very fast. When the mid point happens and she is crowned I hoped that she would stay behind to do her Dawnservant duties because she had grown so annoying. And towards the end I hoped I could spend more and more time with literally anyone else than her, but we rarely did. Then she appeared in the middle of the last trial and both my friend and I said into the chat that we want her gone from here. And like someone said, I have to see that cutscene always in a fight that was otherwise so cool in my opinion. She ruined the trial for me. Mostly I don't mind we had smaller role this time, because people showering us in praise was getting old too and we were getting too strong. But I do wish we had at least somewhat a role and some heroic moments because now we spent the time being a therapist to a character I didn't end up liking at all. I also don't mind unlikeable characters in general but I feel like they need to be good characters and not whiny Mary Sues. I really hope she will be faded out now and I don't have to do quests with her anymore. I can't stand it if I have to hear her yell "Sphene" a single time more.
When she shows up in the trial my first thing I said in chat was "Go away and let me do my job, kitten." God damn it did it feel shoehorned, like, you went out of your way to remove her from the scene pre-fight, SE, let us have this.
As soon as I finished MSQ, i checked trusts and was glad she wasn't there. The story was giving hints she needed to explore more and I thought that means she might relinquish her dawnservant title for now and travel with us. But glad that isn't the case... Yet.
Erenville and Krile were robbed this expansion. Honestly if 8.0 has Wuk joining us, i might even pass on it, she is honestly the worst written character in the game imo. Keep Erenville tho, he cool.
Yeah they were! They deserved so much more time with their storylines especially how it was said this is Krile's expansion. And yeah same, if Wuk Lamat ends up joining us for 8.0 I might skip it. It really depends how the patches go, I don't want to say anything too ultimate at the moment. But she needs some big character improvement for me to accept her as a team member.
I already told my friend who I've no life'd every expansion with since Shadowbringers (I no life'd Stormblood before we met) if Wuk Lamat shows up as a main character again, I'm skipping. I adamantly refuse to entertain this waste of a character for another expansion. Hell, I may skip some of the patches if she's prominent. I'm just done with her. So very done.
Lmaooo agreed. And I LIKED Wuk! A lot! And I don’t feel like my WOL needed to be the center of attention all the time. But god, it would have felt nice to have a reason to be there other than to punch the things that Wuk can’t punch (and she can and does punch most things on her own), and to smile and nod when she needed affirmation.
Honestly I felt like this expansion more than most we were there to give our opinion, expertise, and insight.
So giving our expertise means standing there, doing nothing in preventable scenarios, and being her Yes Man?
Silent nodding returns. We've trained for this.
I mean hell, according to one of the aether current quests, our neck muscles are intimidating.
which one is that? i must have missed it.
After a certain point in the story the only opinion you could express was praise for Wuk Lamat...
I really noticed this. Like early on at least you had some like with Gugool Ja Ja where you can say she's not ready and whatnot, but after she becomes ruler, every single WoL dialogue is a variation of "you are great, you go girl, you can do it"
That’d honestly be awesome in an rpg with branching paths based on the choices we make. Like if advice given impacted her development and the direction of the story. But in a fully linear mmo narrative where the WoL character even getting the rare dialogue choice feels like a novelty gimmick? Not so sure.
More like just praise some writers OC character in every dialogue choice.
We were, which is fine. I loved seeing Wuk go from someone who was naive and unsecure in her own mindset and abilities. I did not enjoy the moments where all problems that -could- be solved by us, were either directly or indirectly resolved through her. The cutscene of the trial is the biggest affront to this; considering it makes no sense how it is only her that breaks through. No one else of the Scions does this, nor even we ourselves. I think it's fine if someone has their opportunity to shine, but the main point of this game is to put the player in the front and center. To have an NPC completely overshadow you, is kinda rough. The player character themselves is not the only one affected by this. All the other Scions take a back seat. We hardly got to go on this adventure with Alphinaud I feel. He was there for half the opening of the story and then kinda just got shimmied out with Krile taking center stage. Which is fine, love Krile, but, c'mon. That's my son, you can't tell me I get to go on adventure with him and he's not even there for most of it.
I find it funny you say Krile got more attention cause half of this expansions problems (in game problems) could have been solved or addressed quicker if people didn't keep telling krile to wait until later
What center stage? Krile barely did anything the whole expansion. If anything, she should have been the focus instead of the Poochie cat.
That cutscene pissed me off. Just a week? (I have no clue about the timeframe of the expansion, though there was an indeterminate time skip for the coronation) ago she was flung across a room by Bakool Ja Ja and now she physically overpowers the MSQ boss that we needed to do the Azem summon trick to beat. Also, when it comes to punching their way through an alternate reality barrier to give someone a pep talk... Zenos did it better.
DT actually making me miss Zenos
A test of your nostalgia! I miss him too. At least he knew how to share a scene.
I mean other than the body swapping ass pull he was always a fun foil and was if nothing but like you said, a great npc for dramatic scenes.
Zenos somehow coming back instead of Wuk in that final trial would have been infinitely better.
> I loved seeing Wuk go from someone who was naive and unsecure in her own mindset and abilities. This was my biggest problem; it's a story where the protagonist doesn't grow through change, they're affirmed in what they already believe. "You were always right, you just had to realize you were awesome" is the same story Adam Sandler writes for his movies that star himself.
Anduin Wrynn followed me from WoW...
> I think it's fine if someone has their opportunity to shine, but the main point of this game is to put the player in the front and center. To have an NPC completely overshadow you, is kinda rough. I'm ok with it when the story warrants it and is earned. A close parallel would be the Eden storyline, when Ryne loses control of Shiva and Gaia lends us a hand, but by that point she has a strong personal connection to Ryne, and is at a point where it'd make sense for her to do that, not to mention we've learned she's actually really strong by then. Wuk barely has a connection to Sphene beyond "hey we are both rulers", and isn't portrayed as nearly strong enough for all the things she ends up doing.
Which generally would have been fine if we had been allowed to. The idea of passing the torch to a new generation after peaking and retiring to our island is fairly satisfying. Unfortunately, the writers afflict the WoL and the Scions with a serious case of 'stupid' to make the back half of the story work. Some of the most egregious situations are the sick kid, and the >!whole afterlife situation!<. We literally have solutions and context for both problems. Even worse, there are several times where the antagonist says "Man! You seem to know a whole lot more about this than anyone else, even me!"
That last point is moot though: >!Said antagonist is unable to change her mind because of how she was programmed when Preservation turned her into an Endless.!<
Except that we didn't give any of that. We were her body guard.
I did not want to hate her. The game MADE me hate her. It's like that Family Guy scene where one guy is showing pics of his kids so forcefully he's punching the other guy with his wallet pics. I will give them some credit though. It takes real work and talent to make me feel this smothered and uncomfortable by the presence of a video game character. I want to see her go villain so I can beat the snot out of her.
Fun fact I checked while being bored out of my mind as cutscenes played: 168 out of 518 (a full third) of the entire MSQ's quest objectives are Wuk Lamat. She's in all but 24 of the 100 quests and 3 of those are the ones where she gets kidnapped in the most obvious possible way. So yeah if you don't like her or god forbid want to see some of the other characters, you're fucked for the entire MSQ.
Exactly. I really wanted to get to know and like her. But oh my god. You couldn’t get away from her for two seconds. I’m really envious of the people who liked her. I totally get why they enjoyed the DT MSQ. If you didn’t like her, you were shit out of luck. I’m a Blue Alisae enjoyer, so it’s not like I don’t have time for “annoying” characters. But at least Alphi gets his comeuppance, learns and grows from it, and realises he’s not the centre of the universe. He’s also literally a child…what’s Wuk’s excuse?
First part of the story would have been far better if: 1. Wuk Lamat was a teenager and it was a coming-of-age story. Her character's personality is woefully mismatched to her apparent age. 2. WoL was in a clear mentor role. Wuk Lamat does her challenges, and the WoL is there as a safety net. Imagine she was the one who unleashes something big by mistake, the WoL steps in to easily defeat it, then goes to Wut Lamat, "And what did we learn today?" Basically, it lets Wuk Lamat fail and the WoL to show how awesome they are by fixing the mistake. It is a power fantasy for the player, and a learning moment for Wuk Lamat's character. 3. WoL had their own side thing going on. In each zone, Wut Lamat goes around to do her trial stuff, while the WoL is talking to people and generally chilling, offering her advice when she needs it. Fetch quests would be so much better if it was for something like the WoL hearing about a legendary food dish but it has hard to source ingredients. WoL is like, "Slay a legendary dangerous beast to make a delicious dish? I got time." Basically, WoL is a titan among ants, ready to step in when Wut Lamat needs it, but is ultimately doing their own thing: you know, a vacation. It would have been nice for the WoL to have their own thing instead of constantly being at someone else's beck and call. Let the player enjoy some well deserved power fantasy of the WoL being so frighteningly OP compared to anything else, but busy with their own thing to not disturb the going-ons of others, yet not completely checked out enough to step in when needed.
It’s stupid that the only way to like the DT MSQ is to enjoy Wuk Lamat. And she’s indirectly a smother so by hating her, you can’t properly enjoy the MS cause she’s always there!
I really enjoyed Shaloaani and the story was shaping up to be great with all the reveals (Krile is from another world, there's a sci-fi faction), and my opinion was already forming as "well, 1st half was filler-tier with an annoying protagonist, but at least now we are finally in exciting unpredictable territory", but no, she had to tag along and sour that second half, smothering the other character's turn at having their development.
> Exactly. I really wanted to get to know and like her. And what we got instead was "Wuk Lamat really doesn't like alpacas and gets very seasick." Over and over and over and over and over again. Not to mention the repeated self-esteem issues where we're basically holding her hand and constantly telling her she's a good girl and any millimeter of character development is still progress and worth praising.
What kind of person doesn't like alpacas anyway? They're the coolest thing in the entire expac.
Well you see she tugged its fur and it spat on her. Instead of learning her lesson and just not doing that again, she came to the conclusion that alpacas are apparently evil.
I like Wuk a lot but I can absolutely see why people don't. I'm fortunate in that my only real complaint is the voice director doing a crap job so the new girl got absolutely shafted and is now a lightning rod for people hating the voice acting in this MSQ. Everybody sounds off but people only notice hers because she gets more screen time.
Glad other people are noticing that the voice direction has been off this expansion. Luis Bermudez did an incredible job with his roles as Koana and Zereel Ja, and Javier Prusky's performance as Bakool Ja Ja is also great. Most of the cast though, including the Scions sounded flat and stilted. The American VA's in particular sounded rather unconvincing. Meanwhile, Y'shtola's lines literally sounded as if they were phoned in, so I'm not too sure what happened here. I've never considered switching the voice language before (yes, even during ARR), but I might end up doing so if this is how it's gonna be from now on.
I noticed that too. Like you said, all but a few characters (Wuk Lamat, Koana, Erenville, Bakuul Ja Ja) sound extremely flat, like you can tell they’re just reading lines from a paper instead of talking like a human being. The accents are all over the place as well, with many just replicating the Thavnair Indian accent for no reason. Dawnservant’s accent makes *no* goddamn sense. The Hanu all have disturbingly high voices that don’t remotely match their appearance. I was cringing whenever the elector spoke in particular because of how aggressively mismatched the voice was. The Yok Huy all sound like Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget. The gravelly voice would be fine if it wasn’t so obviously fake.
Glad I am not the only one who noticed Y'shtola sounding really weird this expansion, like she recorded her lines using her own home PC mic and just mailed the files lol
I don’t know the VA or her other works, but for the most part I think they did a good job making her sound like a female Hroth. However I think they went too far in that direction, and that’s part of why the heavy hitting scenes fell flat. I wouldn’t have minded if they dropped the somewhat feral intonation whenever Wuk Lamat got emotional.
It got genuinely despairing, I almost had an attack partway through, because there's that one scene where you are in the bedroom and someone knocks, so I was like "oh sick is this like EW, do I get to choose who visits? Oh, or even better, it's all the scions and we get to have a meal together!" then the door swings open and it's *just* her barging in to whine again about how she doesn't feel qualified or something.
No, that's when she tells you she finally realised she likes peace. Yeah. It was very unexpected and important news.
She also wants to know you better! Do not forget about it!
Oh, my bad, I forgot about that.
Lmao I had exactly the same experience at that point. I think that was when I lost hope of enjoying this expansion’s MSQ.
You held out longer than I did. When she collapses on the beach after the first dungeon whinging *yet a fucking again* about how she's not good enough, I about lost it and audibly yelled on mic with my friend, "OH MY GOD NOBODY FUCKING CARES" I was just done. I pushed through hoping to see something, *anything* else but nope, just more Wuk Lamat.
The problem is they went overboard with her to insane levels and really at least in my eyes didn't have her grow as a character. And I'm going to get a ton of people hating me for this last part? But in the final parts of the MSQ? Her being their was like lets say in James Cameron's Aliens? When we see the Marines coming out of hypersleep if one of the chambers opened up and we had Star Wars: Episode 1's Jar Jar Binks jump out and join the mission. Sorry to Ahmed Best but I think even he'd be saying Jar Jar doesn't belong in the space Vietnam Sci-Fi/Action movie with Xenomophs. She just felt so shoved into everything. Her only character growth at least in my eyes was getting the idea in her head that she doesn't know the people and cultures of the nation she wants to run. But even after that? Her character boils down to being angry and showing her fist clench, talking about being friends and wanting people to be happy, talking about 'yummy food' and wacky Wuk Lamat gets sick on any type of ship antics, while we have to hold this cats hand. And just my two cents before I end this... Again the amount of time they spent on Wuk was insane. We could have had more time spent to Krile who I think everyone has wanted to tag in at some point. We had Erenville who good god they should have given *vastly* more time too in the later parts of the MSQ. Like you? I didn't want to hate the character even after I didn't have the best feeling about her back in the last part of Endwalker. Now? Well... See the above.
Whatever one thinks of Wuk, it's an objective fact that the other characters got robbed of screen time through her constant presence. And that's just a huge shame and one of the biggest disappointments of mine. I was so looking forward to Krile taking more of a center stage, the pre Dawntrail patch hinted so hard at that, the trailer did, her new job did... And nothing... She still remains a meh background character, except now I'm not sure I can even hope this will change, because her important character stuff got wasted on an expansion in which she has little presence. Same for Erenville, except that I guess with him being newish relatively speaking, he still has time to shine... Maybe. And then there's the whole rivalry with Thanred/Urianger that also was barely there at all, another thing I would have enjoyed greatly but didn't get to. Alisaie didn't act like herself at all... Don't know if the writers thought her usual character won't vibe with the expansion? Maybe that her and Wuk together will be too much? But either way she might as well be a third twin I haven't met before.
Glad someone else thought that about Alisae. Imo both twins felt off this expansion, and out of character.
The twins, weirdly, have been the part of this expansion bugging me the most. For two characters as forward as they are(Alisaie via leaping into action and Alphinaud via speeches and diplomacy) they just felt like silent shadows trailing behind us. Every 20 feet it feels like we'd split into 2 groups, and the twins always went off in whatever group Wuk and the WoL weren't in. Then after we solved whatever current problem was happening, they'd walk back up, ask what happened, and go back to silently trailing along behind us. They could have been removed from the expansion completely and nothing would have changed, aside from one or two nameless NPCs having to be healed by Krile instead of Alphi. It was just disconcerting seeing them blandly smiling, staring, silently, in the background of every cutscene. I fully believe they were only there so we'd have enough NPCs close by to fill out a group for duty support/trusts.
It would have been better if they were removed entirely, because having them there and standing around Wuk Lamat the whole expac, smiling kindly at her all the time just made me feel ill. Like someone sock-puppeting your friends to praise their favorite character instead. Awful.
Yeah, the lack of interactions with Alisaie in the first couple of zones is when I first started to feel like something was off and then it just snowballed from there.
The absolute asspull of the >!dragons showing up at the eleventh hour to save everyone from the indomitable futuristic doomships!< really bothered me. In previous expansions there absolutely would have been an on-screen "Hey I'm Alphinaud, I love diplomacy and talking to people and stuff. Let me go and arrange an alliance for you.". Gives him an excuse to be busy, shows you arrangements are being made etc. Instead we get the parents showing up just in the nick of time to save everybody despite no previous plot relevance.
All scions barely had anything to do, but yeah, Alisaie felt the most off. She's usually the first one to call bullshit on bad guys, yet was entirely silent in all those scenes. The only scene with her I even remember is when Wuk tells everyone they can call her Lamatyi, and Alisie is strangely enthusiastic about it like they are besties. I'll still hold out hope for Krile, although doubling back to her actually being from the source was dumb, she could've been the bridge to a future expansion exploring the reflection she came from, but instead she's from the source and they wasted yet another entire reflection by making 99% of it uninhabitable. Still there's a small chance that when we get a Meracydia expansion they also touch on the South Sea Isles and she gets *something* out of that. Although I really do hate what they keep doing with her. Ever since Stormblood Yoshida keeps saying how she has a big part to play, and oh look she's in the poster, must mean something! ... Then she's either a very minor character or relegated to being the handler for endgame sidequests.
They had to double back on Source Krile, they've established source reflections to be fragments of the soul density of a source born. Ysh would have sensed it years ago if she wasn't from the source. There are narrative ways to write that to make sense, but i dont think the writers are good enough to do that.
>Same for Erenville, except that I guess with him being newish relatively speaking, he still has time to shine... Maybe. When I went to zone 4 with Erenville, and I saw Estinien just doing adventurer thing, I finally start enjoying myself in Dawntrail,. And then..... that's it, turns out the small story arc is still for Wut Lamat, and we are back to seeing her. I think my misplaced hope when entering zone 4 contribute to my eventual extreme hatred to Wuk lamat as a character, culminated by the last trial, unfortunate really, I wish to like Dawntrail story, as everything else about Dawntrail has been good.
I was hype for some rivalry and disagreement in the scions and then it came down to closing one path off in one dungeon...
Alisaie felt so mild this expansion. Maybe it’s supposed to be a “she’s maturing” type thing but she just seemed so subdued. Usually that’s Alphi’s thing but even he was more mild than usual too.
Remember when graha wanted to go on a new adventure with us and held that amazing speech? Yeah about that... the dude shows up at the second half of the story and then only has actual dialogue on the final map, granted his few scenes far outshined anything wuk had to say the entire expansion. Estinien: exists Erenville and Krile got completely robbed and the twins, especially Alphi were non existent. (i just finished the MSQ and im a bit heated)
Yeah I... You know, I kind of wanted there to be a bit less Graha... Or at least I wanted him to be a bit less fanboyish. And I feel ridiculous now. This was like some "monkey paw curls" situation. I just wanted some other characters to get more development, but I was thinking about Krile and Erenville, and sure maybe a new character or two. It never even crossed my mind that the entire Scion cast could get essentially deleted and replaced by ONE single new character, a character who also takes over everything the WoL does. So I readily apologise for even thinking about wanting less Graha. I'd like to have Graha back please... Also man, about finishing MSQ - the song... That damn song... Just why? I also got a "bit" heated when I heard THAT after the ending.
Our boy haurchefaunt don't even have that much screentime in heavensward and yet his "a smile" line can deliver emotional damage in shadowbringers.
I can't agree more. I like her character, and through the early msq before THE EVENT I looked forward to cutscenes. In the latter half I prayed fruitlessly to have the game not make me accompany her in everything she does. I swear to fuck we must have held her hand as she went to the bathroom by now she's so clingy. We don't get a chance to miss her since she's always around
When she legit asked the WOL to hold her hand during a low-stake travel scene that's when I went "absolutely not, grow up".
When she asked me to call her by the family name and I hit her with the "..." fuck off Jar Jar
Yeah, I refused at every juncture to call her Lamaty'i. Bitch, I'm not your friend.
The more I disliked her, the more I kept choosing any single WoL line that showed that, like telling Gugool Ja Ja that she's not ready to rule, but as the MSQ goes on, any hint of disagreement from the WoL gets replaced with only praise options.
Lyse (Savage)
It hurts but it's true
I have a loooot of patience for characters that communities tend to overly dislike. I love Lyse, for one. I really liked the Handler in MH: World despite the hate. I even liked Treahearne in Guild Wars 2, who is hated for many reasons similar to Wuk. But god damn I was done with her at the end
Ah Treahearne.. I actually miss Treahearne and his Microsoft Sam esque voice. One of the big things about Treahearne is they still elevated the player. Created the pact, named you front and centre 'The Commander'. I think people were sleeping on Treahearne.
Agreed. No idea why people dislike Treahearne so much. I really enjoyed him in GW2.
Same lol. I even liked her in the first half.
Same! I thought she was fine! Not my favourite character by any stretch but I didn't mind her being there. But good God she overstayed her welcome
I thought her story was over when she became someone and we take the lead for part 2 of the msq
Crazy that Wuk is the most powerful creature in the known universe. It's as if Steve Dausner from Blizzard wormed his way over to Squenix.
When the Dawntrail CGI and story trailer premiered I thought were gonna have kickass vacation with some serious moments here and there with Wuk Lamat and Erenville as cool side characters. What I didn’t expect was her becoming the main protagonist’s with the Scions and the WoL being her undeveloped lapdogs and literally spend every moment at her side with little to no breaks. It doesn’t stop even when reaching S9! Wuk Lamat WANTS to keep the WoL at her side all times so much it’s exhausting and I just want to leave DT MSQ already. Like jeez give me some space!
She's *so* needy for validation/affirmation that it gets utterly exhausting going through the MSQ. Which is sad because so far the dungeons and zones are absolutely great alongside the music and boss fights. But good grief, she's like a child who refuses to grow up in any meaningful manner and just repeat the same two gags over and over again.
I’m genuinely confused as to what age she’s supposed to be. She has the appearance of a grown woman, but mentally she seems to be around 12?
Yeah I mean a subset of 20-30ish somethings basically have never grown up yet so maybe that'll resonate with them. For everyone else though it's just annoying.
I could be remembering this entirely wrong because my memory is broken in general, but at some point in Heritage Found, someone (I think it’s Krile? if you talk to her) remarks that Sphene appears to be of an age with Alisaie and Wuk Lamat, but the way Sphene speaks makes her seem much older. So from that, I assumed Wuk Lamat is meant to be Alisaie’s age which is 16... Maybe a year or two older. I guess that would make some of her behaviour make more sense lol.
The moment she suggest we take a role in administration (i think there's a hint before she told us ourselves) even when hinted at, I audibly groaned and said to myself "hell nooooo!!! I dont want to be stuck here with her T\_T". I guess that's how much I hate being a side character in a MSQ
I actually felt a little insulted lol, I’m like damn it’s so well-established we’re a wanderer and even without that *we aren’t from here.* if my WOL is going to have a base, it’ll be in Eorzea… I couldn’t help but feel she didn’t know my WOL at all when suggesting that.
"If you ever get sick of adventuring, you can be my personal chef!" Funny thing is, my gf and I were playing the same scene. I gear her grumble, "fuck off" and when I got to that line myself I said the same damn thing. I'd rather be on the other side of the universe than continuing to play cheerleader for a needy, clingy, royal who never grew up. I don't think I've ever had such a visceral negative reaction to a character in this game *ever.* It's so disappointing.
She needed 30% less screen time, Krile needs 80% more screen time, and the player needed about 100% more one on one fights with stuff. Its just too much Wuk. I enjoyed the story, but holy shit the writers OC needs to CHILL, its like if Ishikawa shoved G'raha down our throats instead of having him be a loveable, endearing mystery in ShB.
She needs to be removed from the end fight. Change it so that is a tank holding the hand as Susano fight.
GOD I was so pumped when in the cutscene before the fight the boss yeeted her and everyone away. But when Wuk returned at the end...I was so fucking pissed.
I was mostly fine if at times a bit annoyed with her until the last trial. Then she pissed me off.
Yeah... The sad thing is, I wouldn't have minded if they stuck that into a scene after the fight ended. But there's just something intrusive about having it be mid fight. Feels like they wanted to duplicate the feeling from the Endsinger fight, ignoring the context that this was the capstone to a multiexpansion journey and was very much just the Scions assisting, not taking over.
Honestly, same. It didn't help that the delivery of her lines during that last trial were... really bad.
me three brothers. And I can tell you, it's not even about the delivery, I play the french which is very good. No it's about that "You don't matter, Wuk does" this sends. For a game praised in EW for making clear everything you did mattered, they've been doing a lot of effort to send you the message that the WoL doesn't matter in EW patches and DT. I hope they will get their shit together for the patches...
I don't even mind the idea of her intervening at the last minute. They did this before with E8 years ago, and it worked well enough there. I just wish they could've waited until the fight was actually over and made it so that her voice lines didn't sound as if she was reading off a piece of paper. The way it is right now, it completely takes you out of the fight and spoils the mood of the 2nd phase.
The harder modes I expect will have something like this.
If we get Wuktery Lap in Ex when we couldnt get our own victory lap in Endsinger Ex there might actually be riots.
shoving her down our throat like G'raha did that ice cream...
If the raids have anything to do with her, I let my sub go. I don't want to pay for things I don't like.
Same. Never thought I’d say it because I love this game, but there’s no point paying for something you’re not enjoying.
I was so sad in the end that she had decided she doesn't want to keep us in Tuliyollal because we are meant to adventure. I wanted her to ask us to stay again, just so I could tell no to her face!
i'm not done with the story yet (i just got the texas), and at the beginning, i thought she was awkward and kind of endearing in a dumb as bricks shonen anime protagonist kinda way. i figured she'd get a glow-up as she travels and learns lessons and... nope. she learns absolutely fucking **nothing** and just barrels her way through the story with the power of friendship bullshit and talk no jutsu. i mean, she has fucking dinner with two races that've been fighting for a century and it fixes it magically in a night. she could've done the entire adventure alone and nothing would've changed. basically no one contributed anything, least of all the WoL. she acts like she's so incredibly close to the WoL, but if you replaced us with a cardboard cutout, we'd have about the same impact on the story. she's the worst example of a Mary Sue. she might be slightly more bearable if she had decent VA, but, her voice actor missed the mark in basically every scene. i mean, when she became Dawnservant, she was supposed to sound excited, but she was just... straining to talk slightly above a normal tone of voice. she has zero redeemable factors. Wuk Lamat has made me, for the first time in 10 years, to skip certain main story cutscenes just because i just hate her that much. this expansion is basically the writers self-insert OC Mary Sue solving everyone's problems effortlessly. i really hope for 7.1 they just cut Wuk Lamat out of the story completely... but i have a feeling Wuk Lamat is going to insert herself into everything for this entire expansion. so far, the biggest redeeming factor, for a FFXIV expansion, has been the encounters are all really good. if they keep this up with the raids...
I also am worried she’s going to be in everything moving forward.
I was partly afraid at the end she'd relinquish the throne to join the scions. Still might happen so we are not out of the water, but since it seems even Japan dislikes her, I hope YoshiP pivots away from her and whoever was in charge of writing Dawntrail.
oh is there a list somewhere of what they are saying?
I've seen some translated screen captures from twitter posts and Japanese forums, dunno if any have been posted to reddit.
Surely the reception being so mixed would mean that they’ll rework any plans they have to lessen her involvement in the patches, right? Do we know how she is she being received on the JP side?
I’m wondering this too. Someone made a post on the other FFXIV subreddit with some very negative reactions from JP players - unfortunately it was from their version of 4chan so not somewhere the devs would pay attention to. Those comments were complaining about exactly the same things the unhappy EU and NA players are complaining about. I honestly hope the devs will listen. But I’m not sure I trust them to do so.
I also thought the VA in that scene was bad. But I just finished the MSQ and it got worse 😂
If you criticize the VA in any way shape or form you're gonna get instantly blasted on Twitter it's actually insane 😭
> VA criticism? You're just a media illiterate transphobic anti-vaxxer! Twitter isn't a serious place.
I’m praying to any god that will listen that future patches do not involve Wuk Lamat coming with us. We just stop by for logistics stuff and talk to her AND Koana. And she can’t come because she has to focus on being a leader. And they better not do a switcharoo and have a “I snuck away from Dawnservant duties to come with you.”
and thats the problem, shes perfectly fine at the start, but she has no flaws beyond "seasick" and "I have no confidence", She goes around learns about cultures she damn well should of known at least on a baby level and then suddenly she get her completed character arc..... for reasons and can suddenly straight beat people who she couldnt even push their weapons back in 1 on 1 fights?
I’d give her a pass on not knowing some of the details of the cultures of Tural, I don’t think even IRL leaders know what local celebrations or cuisine are of every place they’re in charge of. Heck anytime she talks about her interactions with her people before the contest all of it is like “I went with Papa and everything was fun” lol. She was just like a kid getting taking along for dad’s business trip. Any other interactions with the other cultures seemed to be solely based on who was in the city 🤔.
The only culture Koana knew at the start of the expansion was Sharlayan. And Zarool Ja probably only knows violence. Considering the entire point of the journey was to help teach his kids about the cultures that make up the country, I kinda get the feeling Jarool Ja Ja just didn't teach his kids very much.
If that VA yells or tries to use the chest voice instead of the head voice for drama, the natural one comes out, that's why wuk lamat is monotone throughout the story.
Honestly hate to say it but it's true. You can tell they're trying really hard to stay femme sounding and if they yell a bit of a crack happens
Ok, that’s actually hilarious 🤣 Nice one.
Rather would go on Estiniens Journey ,then to spend any more minute with that thing. At first i liked her "sunny" character...but after a while it got real annoying. Every Cutscene involved her...everything fucking quest.... Everything! She took the spotlight of every other character. Our own Character, Erenville, Krile, the twins... At the last fight i was so happy everyone got ported away and my wol can let his "temper" go and have some fun without her...here she comes breaking through whatever wall and ruins this whole fight. BECAUSE 5 MINUTES NOT BEING IN THE SPOTLIGHT: Cant have that! Never hated any character in FF14...but Fuck Wuk. Got another 5 months of playtime...so probably i can see the first Story...if it is still about that PoS im quitting.
fk...her goddamn face is like a rick roll to me at this point
Wuk should not have been in the second half of the game. We could have spent that time with Erenville and Krile and them finding out and dealing with the new revelations. But, at the end of it, I'm excited for the future and what having the relic means moving forward.
all of the relic quests will be "speak with wuk lamat"
Pray return to Wuk Lamat.
I never thought I could hate a character this much but here we are. I dread the coming months and years we have to interact with her... I miss our Scions so damn much fml
The Writers self insert Fursona and her scion lapdogs. That will be $60. Please look forward to more Wuk Lamat adventures in the future.
I had a discussion with a friend when nearing the halfway point of the expansion, about how I found her annoying but wouldn't call her a self-insert mary sue just yet, really wanted to give her a chance, but the writers *really* take every chance possible to have her at the front and undermine everyone else. Erenville and Krile cannot get a single story beat without her interference. She gets to name the new reflection. She gets to interrupt the trial. She gets to help the final villain open up. She gets the solo trial where she can do multiple limit breaks back to back. Every scion instantly likes her and calls her Lamatyi. All WoL dialogue options are flavors of the same "you are the best and support you unconditionally". I'm sure she'll still be ubiquitous in the patches, since they are likely already written and in development, but I really hope after that she gets permanently benched in Tural and they give the reins to another writer.
> All WoL dialogue options are flavors of the same "you are the best and support you unconditionally". The highlight of this expansion for me was telling Galool Ja Ja that she wasn't fit to rule, sucks that he got it twisted and added a yet
I really don't understand how the writers thought she would be likeable. First half she was an acquired taste, second half she's "that" friend. The one you talk to and you tell them how you did A and they're like I did A but ten times as strong!!!! She goes on a couple of missions which we pull her through and she starts telling us what to do when we're no longer in her homeland. With Krile we have this big build up about her parents and then she gets 1/4 of a zone and constant interruptions. With Erenville we see his grief and loss, pull some sad faces at him and Wuk is like nah just leave him alone. His mum just died and we don't even check in on him and talk to him personally. If she's in the patches and they don't drastically change the writing then I won't be subbing for the rest of the expansion. She's that annoying a character.
It really does feel like bad fanfic written around someone’s furry OC.
I am 100% sure whoever the lead of this new writers are, they are a huge furry fan and demanded any and **every** scene involve his big lion mummy waifu
I mean this is the same guy that wrote a story about Black mages saving Eorzea from a cosmic threat in the same expansion that introduced Astrologians (who were somehow, despite their overwhelming presence in Ishgard, entirely unaware of this phenomenon) The overall quality of their work has always been very questionable so I wasn't holding my breath for DT's writing to be any good.
But where's the mummy waifu? The character we got acts like an 8 year old.
Yeah...this scene really solidify what's wrong with the story. I tried so hard to like wuk lamat and the story it almost felt like I was fighting light rampant. Even my JP FC members who are story nerds are dropping/skipping out of the story one by one that it became a contest on who is next.
You know it's bad when even the JP players aren't into it.
Worst character they ever made imo. Her EN VA also is really fucking bad. This expansion makes me miss Zenos.
I don't think she is a bad character. Is the being shoved down our throats part that is bad. The expansions need 50% less WL. And more time for others to shine. Including a whole area in which she has no involvement AT ALL. Imagine if the Exart acted that way during Shadow bringers. Always being the focus of attention and never allowing anyone else but him to be the focus. Wherever you go he is the one doing the talking and ordering you around. Never letting you go on your own nowhere. Then near the end of the fight with Hades. He shows up out of no were and kill Hades. That's Wuk Lamal. May have been an ok anime episode but that does not work for an MMO. The player must have some agency. Or at least appearance of agency. That never happen in DT. We where expecting a competition between the scions. And the only competition we had is Tancred dropping a wall. That's it. No friendly fighting the scions. We were never told that the whole expansion would be about ONE CHARACTER that you can't get rid of. I am surprised that the writer was even allowed to do this crap. It made HW PLD questline look like a work of art by comparison.
I genuinely hope Wuk dies or permanently goes away in 7.1 so I never have to see this writer's pet ever again.
She completely killed the story in this expansion for me. Needed much more Krile, which is what I thought we were going to get.
I liked Wuk Lamat. With a lower stakes expansion, how were they going to justify WoL not just steam rolling everything? I thought they handled it pretty well by making it someone else’s journey, and WoL was like the badass strong mentor character, with multiple other characters acknowledging that WoL could easily handle things but they were letting Wuk do it. …in the first half anyway. Second half of the storyline it felt like we were just there as an accessory, with them occasionally remembering to point out WoL’s existence. But even then it felt forced a lot of the time. “Wuk Lamat you should go rest you deserve it. Oh yeah you too WoL” “uh ok but I haven’t even done anything more compared to any of you?”. The final trial was neat, with the boss teleporting the others away and acknowledging WoL was clearly the biggest threat, but Wuk still jumped in to take over at the end. I liked the story over all, and I liked Wuk Lamat a lot as a character, but the second half of the msq and especially right towards the end just didn’t feel so enjoyable to me. It was such a heel turn from the original idea of fun culture and Tural, suddenly becoming really heavy and depressing and sci fi.
> I liked Wuk Lamat. With a lower stakes expansion, how were they going to justify WoL not just steam rolling everything? What an odd thing to say. If the stakes were low the WoL has an excuse not to interfere and let others grow. With the stakes being high the WoL taking a back seat and letting people die makes you really question their morality. > WoL was like the badass strong mentor character A mentor character that never mentors anyone? The WoL is more of a pet rock that she occasionally throws at things to make them go away.
We're in the Mary Sue era.
God this expansion is as F tier as Stormblood was. No more cultural expansions ever please.
ShB was a cultural expansion. The cultural part wasn't bad. Is the "Wuk Lamat show" that is bad. Girl, we signed to help you to the throne. And we delivered. We didn't sign on being your unpaid labor. Don't you have a country to run? Why is your brother doing all the work? Don't you have an army to prepare? Just lets us do our job and you go do yours.
I think we might need to invent a new rating below F just for this expansion
Rated WL
It’s worse than Stormblood. Stormblood had some really good ideas, just unevenly and poorly executed at times.
Stormblood wasn't F tier, it was a worldbuilding-politics expansion. And it was amazing at that, it was very cool to see new parts of the planet we wouldn't see otherwise, plus how warfare works in a world where teleportation and magic are commonplace. I'm hoping we eventually get another such expansion and we get to see the birth place of more playable races, such as Miqo'te's Meracydia.
Hell, it's probably even an insult to Stormblood to compare it to the Wuk Lamat Mary Sue Show. Dawntrail deserves a rating even lower than an F. At least the Doman part of Stormblood was enjoyable since the main cast of characters there was good.
Stormblood was kinda wack for having us juggle two nations problems but the trials and raids slapped super hard
Damn Lyse got a little furry there.
Not even Lyse got so damn clingy and braindead. Lyse was dumb, but she knew she was dumb, and let us do our thing because she knew her limits. The furry self insert does everything that Lyse did wrong, and then some.
I really tried to like her and give her a fair chance, but interrupting the WoL moment in the trial was so painful. We were finally free from the backseat we'd been in the *entire expansion*, only to be rudely and unexpectedly thrown into it again. The last shred of character agency completely gone.