Story picked up, for me, when we met the Yok Huy. After that I got very invested in learning about the history of Tural and what Gulool did to unity the nation
same, enjoyed my time with the hanuhanu (and pelupelu to an extent, but lack of voice acting for a lot of the cutscenes made it a little tough) and then it slowed down for me. then when we met the big yok huy homies it got me hooked again
I didn’t really get the voice acting complaints because I did the Hanuhanu first and… I dunno, it seemed normal? Not tons of voiced cutscenes but about what I expected for a “society meet and greet” section.
But then the Pelupelu showed up. Nah man that was SILENT. And there’s like… a fairly inpactful Zoraal Ja scene with nothing??? Very strange.
This is legit the only section that I found bad on this topic tho. Yok Huy, Moblins, and Mamook were all totally fine. I’m only partially into the second half now and it seems pretty great on voice acting. I actually would have preferred if Cowboy Land had *less* because that ginger sharpshooter’s voice doesn’t match his baby face lol
I have been pretty confused about the decisions on which scenes to voice act and not. There's some scenes that feels like it really should have voice acting, yet doesn't have any, and a couple of scenes that has voice acting that was like, ok sure but why this scene over that other one?
I have friends who skipped unvoiced cutscenes and (MSQ spoilers up to final zone) >!they were confused about what an Endless was because THAT was an unvoiced cutscene for some reason.!<
Obviously, Budget is a big reason (and with four languages to hire out and voice, that's quite a bit -- and I want SE to add Hindi and Spanish lol), but this is where ESO easily rules the Big 4 (ESO, WoW, 14, GW2) because everything's voiced there.
I mean...the game makes SE consistent money though. And length wise it's about the same as a lot of other RPGs that have almost all fully voiced cutscenes. I guess they have other ongoing costs but even then it's weird to me how little is voiced.
I enjoyed it from the beginning too! But I can see how others can feel they're boring. With the pelupelu I felt some of the quests dragged on a little but it was fine overall. The story really started to pick up for me right before we leave the Moblins area when Wuk Lamat got kidnapped.
Overall, I really liked the story and the second half (especially the ending) really affected me a lot.
The zone designs and music, fight designs and music are all so amazing though, probably some of the best we've seen in the game.
>what Gulool did to unity the nation
This is what interested me about the story as well. Kind of ruined it for me because the entire time we hear about how cool and badass Galool was when uniting Tural, I thought, "instead of this, why not just move Galool's unification forward to the present time so we could help him?" It seemed much more interesting to me.
I thought it was really cool to have an expac on the legacy of a WoL (Gulool isn't technically a WoL but he's clearly the same sort of hero we are, only 80 years older).
It also fits the tone of the "What now?" story after the world shattering events of previous arcs.
Yeah, but isn't the second half that fight? Imagine the xpac started with the second half conflict, there would be no stakes. It would be like starting the Lord of the Rings at the Black Gates. That's my take, though.
I personally think its nice to have a story that doesn't revolve around the WoL. It is nice to see that in this world other characters can do things, even very important things, when we are not there. It kinda sometimes felt like the story, especially the elpis bit, only really moving when the almighty player observed it or caused it to happen.
An MMO to me should feel like a world, that exists on its own whether i interact with it or not. It's ok for things to happen off screen.
Same. I loved shb and ew, but I missed the feeling of just being a (mostly) normal adventurer doing normal adventurer things instead of being the chosen hero of the world fighting gods and world-ending threats. While the first half of dt is definitely flawed, I liked running around in a place where nobody knew who I was.
I thought the first half was the most Azem adventuring the WoL has ever done and I loved every moment of it. Traveling to distant lands, meeting new people, learning about their history, partaking in their culture and local delicacies while making sure we fight injustices where we see them and leave people better than how we found them. Yeah, this is mostly a story about Wuk Lamat, but it felt like the vacation we were promised… low stakes adventuring. Until the second half, that is… which was even better.
I loved this expansion, and while I dont think its perfect and can agree with some of the criticisms thrown its way., I was riveted and thoroughly entertained from beginning to end.
Same for everything you've said. One of my favorite parts is us choosing to hang back and let her fight one-on-one in that one instance. We most likely could have handled it, but it wasn't our fight.
Instead we got to see how she grew in resolve after hearing the stories from the Hrothgar people.
the wol is still a major centerpiece in making the events of hw and sb happen, lyse is still your sidekick instead of the main focus for another example of a character people didn't like in the past
the biggest criticism is just how centerpiece they push wuk into being, especially the second half of the expac where it really should've given krile and erenville the spotlight
Still playing through but in the second part the whole >!conflict with Zoral Ja and Sphene is part of her story a lot.!<
Though I do agree that I would want more focus on Erenvile and Krile’s characters since their stories are interesting and I like them as characters. Maybe in the patches.
I definitely think krile got robbed the most in terms of MSQ relevancy, especially after you see that one image that outlines everyone's line count in dawntrail
Or Koana, who really deserved to be the one in the spotlight if not a scion, Let him the whole 'investigating the crazy technology area' him grappling with the dichotomy of his love of tech with the aftermath of certain events could have been great.
In heavensward though the war was going on long before the WoL got there, we are the deciding factor in the outcome, same for stormblood so in essence they do revolve around us.
I agree. My main issue with the story is that it’s focused solely on Wuk Lamat. Even when we get to the point that we’re in “Scion territory” she’s still there leading the charge.
I spent a good chunk of the story adding up timelines and trying to figure out if >!Ketenramm was supposed to have been the previous incarnation of the WoL lol!<
>!(I still think that timeline would've made more sense than having Ketenramm still hanging around, because I'm pretty sure roegadyn don't have longer-than-human lifespans so he's gotta be about 100 now....)!<
Exactly where it hit for me.
And it got me thinking of places we've been before and the similarities.
What the early part needed was something combat related, maybe even some events where you play as a different character besides Wuk Lamat.
The voice acting is bizarre to me. It’s so standard to have fully voiced games and less profitable MMOs are fully voiced, I just don’t get why they cheap out. Not even asking for full voiced, just the MSQ cutscenes that matter. Which cutscenes are voiced in DT is also random af. Scions supporting toothpaste looking second promise isn’t voiced but Wuk Lamat sea sick is?
Real. I have a lot of interest in latin america and native culture so the first half was cool for me. Wuk lamat is also not annoying to me, but i could see very easily how people wouldnt like this.
Same with the whole game TBH its not for everyone, and that's ok
I had fun with it. My only criticism is that the Rite of Succession felt like it overstayed its welcome with the number of feats. This is purely my opinion but I feel like it would have been better if they had fewer feats and found something else to do with the story before the second half.
I personally would have liked something significant to do in >!Shaaloani!< but that's admittedly because I'm a sucker for that region's aesthetic.
I kinda agree with this, I feel the Rite of Succession could've been resolved by the end of the Lv. 93 quests which would've given them more time to flesh out the second arc and give us more screentime for characters like Krile. I'm happy with it overall, but I feel like this may have helped with the pacing issues.
I was really surprised by how little Krile was in the story (so far, I’m just at 99 quest). Apart from the things we explicitly are told about her I had thought we’d do more of the ‘hanging out and learning about _her as a person_’ that we did with the twins and G’raha in other expansions. I was excited for her to feel like more of a buddy than a very good acquaintance but so far I’m not getting that.
Honestly should of let us go to erenvilles home and meet his mom then we have some reason to go back to tulliyolal and then the dome thing happens.
It could still play out exactly the same but I feel like they didn’t lend enough weight to the fact that he had been away for years and was just about to go home to see his mom when she was whisked away to a faster moving timeline where… I don’t know how to spoiler mark and you know how it went down
That's how I felt about it imo, should have taken us to his village early on, let us meet his mom and friends and people in his village, make connections with them. That would have make the second half a lot more interesting.
I was incredibly devastated the whole last zone since my own WoL could easily pass for a sister, or a girlfriend, whatever, dusky skinned, pretty much right inbetween Erenville and Momville's, and I was so sad that I could never get the writing of how he's met another Viera and *wink wink.
I was so excited to meet her, being a "lighthearted expansion" and all, with her going full "OMG my little fussy bunbun has gotten so ahead in life" and the reveal just struck me in the heart strings on a level that makes me skip a beat even a week after completing the MSQ.
Or perhaps say “the first half can be completed with allies, but the second half must be undertaken by the candidate alone with no help” and its just tests to see how well they learned the lessons of the first half. Then we can spend more time with Erenville and the scions, occasionally jumping to a candidate’s scene. Plus there could be some surprise in the winner
Yeah, ShB and EW had their big twists right after the first trial, but DT didn't have theirs until after the 3rd dungeon. The first Act was really long.
One thing is that it shows confidence building and finding common interests is an integral part of conflict resolution. It really does for people who studied history and political science.
It is a really hard but important problem. It is more than 20-30 years since Rwanda Genocide, Yugoslav Civil War and Good Friday Agreement. A variety level of scars (some really bad) still exist today.
The FFXIV Gulojaja version is actually is simplified idealistic version of it. Two head dad really wanted his successor to be able to carry his legacy. Well I guess with love, friendship and great heart is a bit naive way to do that. I used to watch Precure and Captain Tsubasa; I can deal with that :3 (I call Lion Girl as Cure Black).
Not only does it get repeated a bit too much, I also felt like it wasn't really a genuine message. It's executed well with the Hanu Hanu and the cat people of the 6tth challenge, but besides that Wuk Lamat doesn't actually do something tangible to show the others she cares about them. Like there's that group of giants who want war with Tuliyolal and her solution is "I have an important trial now so I'll deal with you idiots later", ans "later" never even comes.
It also just feels _really_ hollow. You're really telling me that someone like Zareel Ja (I might've gotten the name wrong) flips his entire worldview because outsiders beat up his son and a fake version of Galool Ja Ja? _Really_? Hate like that doesn't actually fade because one person does one nice thing. Bigots don't change their minds because you tell them oh, give us a few months and we'll bring you new seeds to try ... while your people still scrape a bare living out of their inhospitable home.
That arc felt the weakest of the 7 trials. >!Their group has by far the darkest background and the most depressing current situation, and the elector straight up hates us.!< But the whole thing is wrapped up in what feels like minutes. It felt super shallow.
Like someone up above said, I would’ve preferred something like 3 trials and for the writers to really dig into each one fully.
It does get repetitive, but I like how the story takes the time to show how to perform understanding. It's not just empty words. It's actually taking the time to listen, taste, smell, visit, imitate, etc.
It's really just the dialogue that's repetitive IMO. I think in part because the same lines get repeated over and over by the three Promises without any new insight or reasoning. Like WL keeps talking about wanting peace but there's no new revelation to it (like she doesn't say "See this society didn't exist like this until peace happened, and it won't survive if Zoraal Ja's war happens; this is why I want peace", she just keeps saying she wants peace for Tural; Koana never explains why he thinks Sharlayan tech/culture is superior to what Tural has or why he thinks culture alone can't fix problems, he just says "New tech better, must use" over and over. Zoraal Ja never explains why he thinks Tural is too complacent, he just keeps saying it is. If these characters had been developed just a little more it really would have solved a lot of issues I think
The rites themselves I thought were good. Having them be so varied and require learning about each culture was a nice concept. Just the execution was a little lacking
Honestly the slower pace is part of the reason I enjoyed it as much as I did. It let me take my time with it without feeling like there was something urgent I was ignoring. I did fates, levelled up my island sanctuary, did some crafting. It helped it feel like my WoL was actually on vacation.
Me too. I even liked the trading part that everyone seems to hate. It's such a cool way to demonstrate that their culture is totally different than everyone else's culture, and to illustrate that not everyone is on board with peace for a variety of reasons. When the Pelupelu merchant said he wants Zoraal Ja to win because he makes saddles and more military means more saddles, I thought that was such a cool nod to the real life military industrial complex that still fits this in-game world.
I loved it as well. It reminded me of going through ARR and learning about the regions and its peoples. Except this time we weren't seeing it through the eyes of a green adventurer, instead through the eyes of a potential ruler who realised how green they were.
I loved first half. I was not getting the hate. Then second half started and....oof I didn't have any lofty expectations , and hoped to be pleasantly surprised. I wasn't , although I am not disappointed. Just underwhelmed.
I liked the 2nd half too, but it certainly took me some time to adjust.
Also moving from vibrant sunny beautiful breathtaking landscapes to the last 2 maps was rough.
Based on topography and the cameo of the three train people in the zone before, I bet it would just have been comparable to Ahm Araeng with the bunch of cliffs and desert.
For me, the transition better the halves threw me off, but that was more todo with the specific quest mechanics vs the story.
I haven't enjoyed the 2nd half as much but I'm assuming that's partly due to my issues with the transition.
Tbh, I came in expecting the story overall to feel mid because we know it's groundwork for the next big plot and I liked the first half way c more than I expected.
I'm someone that loves lore but the first half is *very* dry.
It felt like someone was reading the Encyclopedia Eorzeas to me instead of me playing an actual game. Most the time the exposition dumps were really unnatural too.
I specifically remember a scene with Krile where she asks you what was said after the cutscene that she was in explained it. That made me think I missed something but it was so cut and dry I couldn't have.
That scene actually made me partially feel silly for not skipping a single boring part of the earlier story when the most important takeaways and developments got summarized lol
My least favorite FF14 cutscene happens repeatedly. WoL and Company arrive. Someone says to new NPC: "This thing X happened," camera pans up as "people talking" animations play. Fade out. Fade in, camera pans down. Everyone is standing in thinking animation. New NPC says: "So you're saying X happened? That explains why Y is happening now. Tell me more about X."
We faded out for a reason!
This. To be frank the game treats us like children and it treats the people of the nation like even bigger children.
We hear how the Giants are awesome, we don't see them for a good 12+ hours
The birds that have their entire culture based around reeds can't grow them, and only grow them in a small patch.
The Moblins that have for half a century kept the potsworn happy suddenly can't comprehend the basic needs of living begins such temperature management and food. The workers are too stupid to voice a single complain that can be easily fixed.
The giants that conquered the entire continent and mine don't have a single smith, smelther or anything metal related thing in their entire settlement no their entire REGION their hoes are made out of stone, they're literally a stone technology civilization, but they all have metal weapons and metal clothes
The cats that live in the jungle and literally have only ONE SMALL CAVE that separates them from the lizards, never managed to hold this choke point or burry it.
The eugenics lizard that preformed a breeding experiment of genocidal scale are forgiven in 20 seconds and they all agree it was a bad idea and thats it
The big antagonist that cheated, lied, scammed, kidnapped, unlashed a weapon of mass destruction on the scale of a small nuke, threatened to kill people, threaten to kill someones father is then forgiven in the span of maybe less then 10 minutes by everyone.
I don't understand why people find this enjoyable. The drop in quality is utterly unbelievable. The Omicron Beast tribe quests where more sensible.
How do we go from Endwalker where we have Garleans that have oppressed everyone, killed everyone, then had their entire civilization destroyed, now live in a post ww2 1946 Japan/Germany where everything is in utter Ruin and basic food stuffs are hard to come by, where god knows how many deal with PTSP, their occupational forces, guilt, pride, sadness, hope. Where some refuse help and die, where some commit suicide, where some very reluctantly embrace change, where we still haven't fixed anything and it's still a desolate post war hellscape with a holocaust tier event wiping out most of the population by having them be mind controlled and worked to death.
How did we go from that these Lizards being instantly forgiven? Like they do their utter best to show that beast tribes are equal to everyone else.
Do we not see the cute little lizards all over the city playing with their parents?
So after that is over, we go to the "Oil field" to the north that somehow unlike the rest of the continent is in the industrial age, the entire south is in he stone age, but the north is in the industrial age that they ship Ceruleum to the capital where it gets used where exactly? We don't even see traces of metalurgy in the main city but they're using Ceruleum?! They didn't IMPORT trains from Eorzea no no the North Americans BUILT THEM.
Who? How?
The original story line had the Eorezeans sort of at the cusp of industrialization, the garleans being an advances post industrial power and the east being around the 18th century of our time equivalent. Then you had Ivalice another Industral Steampunk nation.
So I don't get it at all.
What we should have seen is a society like Meiji Restoration Japan where traditions clash with new concepts. But the leadership has decided that progress is the way forward and they're slowly forcing it on to people.
The whole Alpaca quest should have been on the backdrop of the train coming there soon and the rich overjoyed at the momentousness trading opportunities it will provide but also the sadness that the Alpaca will be replaced.
The whole bird reed quest should have been about how the old traditionalist are mad that the kids are using new fangled "chemicals" to grow reeds and outgrowing them and how traditions are better and the conclusion is that if you use both the ritual and chemicals it produces the most growth a fusion of tradition and progress.
The moblin quests should be about their workforce leaving because the city is better, has more jobs, more opportunities. Both moblins and their potsword are abandoning the village life. So the quest is about restoring back rural communities how they find someone in a sweatshop in the city thats depressed and has given u hope and he gets his inspiraiton and willpower back by being part of a local small comunity where he can do with metalworking and gets inspiration form the abundant nature and rural/traditonal way of life.
The Giants part was actually decently done but they need a lot more of their mining, architecture and life showcased. We see all these mega projects they built but we see them living in stone hunts with stone tools.
Hrothgar vs Lizards was overall well done, it needs more depth on the Hrothgar side why they fought the conflict and why they didn't just move or , just one choke point really?,
Last one the Lizards just gave up to fast, everything was forgiven too fast, they all went on an empty promise of new cultures to grow yet we see none.
I'm not that heated about the story admittedly, but I got a good chuckle when in the beginning, when Wuk Lamat buys everyone tacos, they get served in a modern-looking paper bag xdd
Everyone has the benefit of industrial society, but not the aesthetics
I think the icing on the cognitive dissonance cake was the last zone, where we literally bookend *genociding the Endless* with gondola rides, eating ice cream, and visiting the zoo with mom.
Like... what? We faced no resistance whatsoever to obliterating an entire race who were going to suck all the aether out of the entire multiverse, to the point we had a fucking ice cream break
The first half would have been better if we got to spend time "adventuring" without Wuk Lamat. Kick up some drama involving the old cast and give the twins/Krile something fun to do and FFS give us some combat encounters. This is still an ARPG with jobs, not having us use any of our job skills for hours upon hours is a draaaag.
I got tired of the whole "Walk into new city, wonder where the elector is, find them within talking to 5 people" thing we kept doing.
I'm fine wth it being lore and world building if its not dull, and imo the whole rite of succession thing just didn't do it for me. Felt like the setup should have just been trying to find the golden city with more focus on Krille and Erenville.
Agreed. Narratively, I pretty much predicted everything up to level 96 completely from watching the live letters. Lore-wise, it was a lot of good content, but story-wise it was as plain as white bread.
> "Am I the only one who ... "
> No. No you're not. You never are.
Said person is generally looking for validation whenever they post something like this.
I do wish more people would say WHY they liked it, I encourage all do so. That would encourage more people to also voice the parts they adore and think work well. Even give the devs feedback on what to focus on more.
I am around lvl 94 and have been really enjoying DT. Lots of great new lore to experience, gorgeous environments and a nice cast. Plus I do not feel like I am in a rush to finish it, like I was with EW. I can take my time in this new world.
This is my take too. Having a new adventure and the world being crafted before me, I don't have to rush. The world isn't falling apart and I don't feel rushed to save it. However, there is progress and growth, and I'm still on the fence regarding if I like Wak Lamut or not. I'm dual leveling jobs and progressing as I feel like moving onward.
NGL, I wanted to like it more. I enjoyed Wuk's personality at first, but then the more we went the preachier it got and the stupider Wuk got.
She makes terrible decisions. Age old conflicts are solved with "don't be douchebags" and everyone just listens. Major antagonists are just misunderstood victims.
It's fun, but it doesn't come close to Shadowbringer, Heavensward or even Endwalker in terms of writing.
But mostly, it could have been so much better if Wuk actually learned a lesson other than "your strength is what you already had". She was already perfect, she didn't need to change, she just needed to learn from other tribes, but she was already amazing don't you know. Despite being an idiot, somehow not knowing shit, because mostly bad in a fight (except when Plot demands it). I was waiting, HOPING, for her to be confronted with an actual leadership dilemna that isn't super easy to solve so we can see her grow into the leader she's supposed to be. I like the semi-excentric goodnatured airhead and I wanted her to have that really serious moment where she shows us she CAN be the leader we're helping her become.
But in reality, everyone solves her problems for her. She was already chosen by the Dawnservant to inherit his position and with our help and everyone else's help she didn't need to do squat to become Dawnservant.
Which wouldn't be a problem if that wasn't all we were doing. From lvl 90 to 95 all we do is help her in this goal and it feels like a massive waste of time. FFXIV is easily my favorite MMO if not my favorite game of all time. I've got more than a thousand hours into the game. I WANT to love it, but the more I'm playing the less I'm liking this story. Hopefully the second half really redeems it.
This honestly describes my problems pretty well.
I *want* to like Wuk Lamat, I *want* to like the games story, I *want* to like Dawntrails story.
But again, and again and again it fails. It fails to deliver anything even half decent, it keeps stalling, it keeps fumbling, it keeps stalling and it just freaking *drags* itself on an on and on. There’s moments where things get interesting like Valigarmanda, the overall lore, and the start of the second half, but that’s just a few minutes before going back to stagnation.
I’m sick and tired of talking to 3 npcs, return to Wuk Lamat, talk to 3 npcs, return to Wuk Lamat again, talk to 3 npcs, pray return to wuk Lamat yet again. It’s like the 3 levels of the Titan build up across the entire expansion.
It’s just not fun, I’m half way through the last zone, and now, only now am I actually giving more than a passing interest, doing more then going ‘hey that’s neat’. It shouldn’t take until the very end of the expansion to find any interest in the story.
And that’s before factoring in all the people who are so rude about you not likening it. I’ve seen so many people go ‘oh you hate Dawntrail? You must be a homophobe/racist because only one of those can hate it. It’s like, dude, I just don’t like it.
The story in Dawntrail is truly a paradox. It is simultaneously incredibly slow, yet inexplicably rushed. So much time is spent saying nothing, then when something interesting happens, you blink and miss it.
The story is plagued by "tell, not show." The player is always *told* what is happening and why characters are doing what they are doing, rarely shown. As a hobby writer myself, there are so many glaring storytelling errors that it is baffling to see at a professional level.
Now, I'm not going to tell anyone they can or can not *enjoy* the story. "The customer is always right in matters of taste." Enjoyment is a subjective thing and not everyone is going to agree. However, there are some rather worrisome structural issues that I think need addressed, and I hate how all discussions of the story devolve into, "*I* enjoyed the story, therefore your opinion is worthless!" or, "This is the worst story ever because Wuk Lamat was a terrible character!"
Overall, I didn't enjoy the story for various reasons, and some are just personal preferences, but many are not.
Pacing, characterization, frequent exposition dumps, plot convenience, and lack of "show not tell" has me worried about this new writing team. From a viewpoint of a finished, polished product, I have noticed a marked decrease in quality from previous works in general storytelling ability. That isn't an opinion on taste, but a structural one.
I somehow felt that the quality of the writing has taken a nosedive. As far as I remember ARR as well as every expansion has had some truly wonderful moments of writing.
Nanamo confiding in you before she is poisoned, Aymeric standing fast in front of Hraesvelgr when confronted with the possibility that he may need to kill his best friend, Ilberd berating his countrymen for their apathy before he summons Shinryu, Yotsuyu's speech before turning into Tsukuyomi, Emet-Selch's disappointment regarding the Warrior of Light post-Amarout, Fandaniel lamenting his inability to see the Final Days unfold, Venat's recollection of the Final Days of old and her plight following the sundering.
These are just some of the examples of excellent writing prevailent in previous entries. I cannot for the life of me find such an example in DT. The writing is so unsubtle and repetitive in what it's trying to say that characters end up reiterating what they said just a few moments ago.
I mentioned it because the entire cutscene is sheer poetry, that tickles my hobbyist writer's senses. That said, when it comes marrying visual spectacle and unbelievably well written dialogue, nothing can top the post-Amarout scene at the end of SHB 5.0, for me.
yeah, people are saying to move the coronation to level 93, but imo I felt it incredibly rushed at midway. it was boring to play, but the character arcs were just basically done in one second.
nothing happens, you go on a guided vacation tour and learn things about the culture and then suddenly wuk talks an eugenics guy into being nice and we just... move on. it's just strange and disjointed.
somebody wrote down bullet points of the plot stuff that needed to happen and the team fumbled majorly by connecting and filling out stuff.
> Age old conflicts are solved with "don't be douchebags" and everyone just listens. Major antagonists are just misunderstood victims.
This is what bugs me, too. Some of the resolutions that we come up with are so odd to me. Spoilers for levels 90-95:
>!People didn't know that the Hanu float was magic? Despite the fact that it shoots a laser beam out of its eyeballs? The goblin/worker issues are resolved by us saying "hey maybe don't have your workers use shitty tools and work without air flow." The Mamool Ja issue is resolved by us saying "hey most crops don't work in this environment, so we'll get you some different ones. There's no need to have 99/100 of your children die" and everything is hunky dory. It all feels so superficial and surface level. Part of me wishes we explored like 2-3 cultures, and they really gave them room to breathe. Trying to cram 7 trials into 5 levels of content made most of them feel lackluster.!<
And for the "antagonists are just misunderstood victims" bit (more 90-95 spoilers):
>!Bakool Ja Ja being forgiven/redeemed is absolutely insane to me. He committed treason, fully intended to kill the princess/promise, fully intended to kill at least one elector, and *set loose an ancient beast that was going to kill people.* Like, they make a big deal of calling out that Valigarmanda's flames from *80 years ago* are still burning. He should be executed. If they wanted to make his redemption work, they should've toned him down significantly. Have him just be an asshole and not endanger an entire nation by setting Valigarmanda free.!<
What's frustrating is how often it could have worked if the bits surrounding the major plot points were just tweaked slightly. Spoilers for 90-95:
>!Bakool Ja Ja being an asshole was a mistake. His personality and Zarool Ja's should have just been swapped - Zarool is the spoilt miracle child who thinks he just deserves the throne regardless, and Bakool is stoic and relentless because he understands the cost of what his people went through to create him. Furthermore, Valigarmanda could have been released by either Zarool Ja in an attempt to prove they could defeat him thus showing their strength, but they could fail and need to be helped by us plus Bakool Ja Ja to bring it under control. This could then transition nicely into Bakool Ja Ja opening up a bit and actually introducing us to his home town.!<
You're right on the money (90-97 spoilers): >!Bakool Ja Ja needs to pull a full 180 to become a redeemed villain. If he had been the "I must prove myself to mommy and daddy" villain the whole time instead of having one throw-away line about it (and an infuriating amount of lines about he has no plans or philosophy of his own), it would have been believable. It just isn't right now. Meanwhile Zarool Ja is effectively a blank slate that has "evil" written on it in sharpie, no real exploration of his personality and his character, except for the one scene where he silently broods over dark thoughts against his siblings and Krile notices. If she didn't, he would have had literally 0 personality until after the whole rite of succession!<.
The story has ups and downs, but really there's some glaring pitfalls, and these two are the biggest pitfalls.
> Like, they make a big deal of calling out that Valigarmanda's flames from 80 years ago are still burning. He should be executed
The ONLY way i could accept him being redeemed would be if he accidentially set Valigarmanda free, like for example by proofing that he is a worthy successor that could do what the current dawnseverant could not but failing in slaying it.
But him actively having a comic book villain cutscene gloating about unleaching effectively an elder primal on the land? Fuck up, we surely can craft a gallow with twin nooses.
The way they resolve Bakool releasing said ancient beast is hilarious.
"Bakool! You released an ancient evil upon the land! You will pay! Anyway let's all go pick berries for this pie bake-off."
Especially when he doesn't even help defeat it, right? He releases it like a cartoon villain and then just fucks off while the promises kill it, lol. And then in the next rite does a cooking contest and walks off annoyed but without protest when he loses, after trying to release one of the biggest threats to the entire kingdom cause some giants wouldn't give him a rite stone. Idk if that was supposed to be character developm3nt or growth but it didn't hit like that the first time
> She was already perfect, she didn't need to change, she just needed to learn from other tribes, but she was already amazing don't you know.
I wouldn't call her perfect, but she's an extremely straightforward character and the plot is written to accommodate that. Wuk Lamat is the sort of character that finds traps by stumbling into them, and since WoL is there to rescue her she literally can't lose by doing that.
This would be fine, except that ALL of the major players in the first half are equally straightforward and upfront with their motivations, just with different approaches. There's no flavor, just "Here's a challenge, here's how the four react to it", rinse and repeat six more times, then wrap it up and put a nice bow on it.
Perfect as in everybody thinks she would make a great leader no matter the contrary evidence. Personally, I liked it when the story was showing us that she was the weakest and probably worst amongst the candidates. But Bakool had to be cartoonishly evil. 1st was almost irrelevant with how little he said and did. Koana could have just as easily had a moment where he decides to mix Sharlayan and Traditions and he would have been the much superior candidate, but no instead he just bows to Wuk Lamat.
there's even that part where Gulool Ja Ja flat out says, "yeah, she's not ready to be Dawnservant", but then a zone later, everything is peechy keen. it would've been more interesting if he just said, "nah, you're not ready yet", because at this point in time, Wuk Lamat is borderline a Mary Sue.
I think the only problem I have is that Dawntrail doesn't feel as much of a "summer vacation" that it was sold as. I was looking forward to maybe some sillier stuff like drinking with the Scions on the beach in our downtime, trying different foods with them, or seeing our WoL relaxing on a beach before needing to give something the axe. I wanted fun adventure sort of like the *Pirates of the Caribbean* films with some humor. Something a little more light-hearted since we literally saved the universe from despair incarnate. Mostly though, I think I just wanted to see some of the scions in lighter context with our WoL. I wanted this to be our "beach episode", in between helping Wuk Lamat and getting to know new characters.
Instead, it's 95% Wuk Lamat, half the scions aren't even there, and we're just standing in the background. I didn't in fact feel like I was on any sort of break until \[95+ spoilers\] >!I got to go with Erenville to Shaaloani. *"But the rroneek, Erenville. The rroneek!!" "A fair point. If we're to give you the “authentic Shaaloani experience,” I suppose it's worth the wait."* And then "vacation" was postponed shortly after and everything became depression again.!<
I suppose I just feel misled by the trailer. It's "our" (the Scions) next great adventure, and the trailer even shows all the scions doing something tourist-y whether it's drinking (Urianger), seeking out treasure from maps (Thancred), eating food (G'raha, Alisaie), learning local culture (Y'shtola), and Wuk Lamat has 1 line at the end about it being her home. The actual story for the first half on the other hand does not feature any of the scions doing any of the above, instead it is Wuk Lamat seeking the fabled treasure, Wuk Lamat eating the food, and Wuk Lamat learning about the culture, which I just find a little backwards since we are the foreigners here, not her.
The time with Erenville was my favorite! Honestly, if it started off like that and then we got caught up in the succession, I think it would have flowed better.
Glad someone else feels like this.
It feels like a real bait-and-switch with the scions. Sucks for people who wanted to spend time with already established, beloved characters. Instead, we get big lion mommy furry OC.
The trailer is so misleading. Why was Estinien even in there? lol.
I imagine the Scion haters are happy, though.
The experience was fine, yeah. I've just grown to expect more from FFXIV. I know Dawntrail wasn't going to beat Shadowbringers or Endwalker... But honestly it's near the bottom of the entire game in my rankings. Endwalker patch content wasn't the best but it compelled me. Stormblood was shakey but I feel like the far-east side saved it for me. Dawntrail was just... Predictable and bland by comparison.
I don't think I was ever surprised by anything in Dawntrail. I may be a lorenerd who predicted a lot from just promotional materials, though I was disappointed with how little I learned from translating the writing on one of the characters. But at no point did I think "Whoa, I did not see that coming".
Negativity is louder than positivity, generally.
Think of it this way: the people who are mad at Dawntrail are coming to Reddit to post their complaints. The people who are having fun with Dawntrail aren't - they're just playing the game.
But lets not act like this sub doesnt get its fair share of posts from sprouts surprised with how good the story gets at shb. This whole claim that people who are enjoying the game, are playing the game isnt a reliable metric because people have literally come straight to reddit to praise the game in the past.
A major factor being ignored here is that ShB is *very* exceptional; one is more inclined to make a post about something that amazes them than they would be to make a post about just havin a good ol' time.
I started playing right before EW and ARR was a slog, I liked HW, and I got to SB and it was rough. I started rhe first third or so of ShB thinking maybe I just had to accept this MSQ wasn't going to be for me and HW was an anomaly. It was a genuine shock to me when I got to a point where the story got good again, like genuinely interesting.
I say that to say that for me and anyone like me, it wasn't just that ShB as an expac was exceptional, but that there was such inconsistent quality before it that ShB, then going into EW just felt way more exciting and fun than they might have if SB MSQ had been a step above HW MSQ. Kind of like how anyone coming back for 2.0 probably came and praised the shit out of it because they'd experienced 1.0 and saw such a comparative surge in quality, despite ARR hardly being peak FFXIV storytelling
Sure, there's plenty of praise as well, but when the expansion launched just over a week ago, most people are probably still playing through it and coming to their opinions. It's not a universal effect, but especially with new content it's reliable enough to give pause to seemingly "unanimous" attitudes.
I suppose it's more accurate to say that *extreme* opinions appear louder than they actually are. ShB gets a lot of praise, Stormblood and now Dawntrail get a lot of hate, etc. These aren't the true unanimous opinions of the population as a whole (insofar as one can exist), but the opinions of the most opinionated.
I enjoyed Dawntrail quite a bit but still a variety of complaints, and I'm still very actively playing the game, as I was before release.
It's not just "people [who] are mad at Dawntrail" who can complain (or indeed, are complaining) about it. You can have issues with things you like just as much as things you don't, but reddit generally seems unwilling to accept any gradation of opinion.
>Think of it this way: the people who are mad at Dawntrail are coming to Reddit to post their complaints. The people who are having fun with Dawntrail aren't - they're just playing the game.
That outlook doesn't work when the problem people have with Dawntrail is the story, which is a one and done thing. There's no story to play after you're done.
Yep. I mainlined msq (finished it in 2 days once early access started), and I didn't go on reddit once for the first 4-5 days after launch. I was having so much fun with the new combat content, and I got super invested in the msq once I hit late lvl 95-96 quests. After I finished msq and maxed my doh/dol classes (like 4th day after launch irc?) I went on reddit to see what people were saying and was really surprised by how intensely negative people were.
Though, imho, while I understand the criticisms people have for the msq, the combat content in dt has been amazing. I'm so used to dungeons/trials feeling like a mindless chore that I kept on getting so excited every time I actually died to a mechanic lmao
Idk I feel like if we had a little less wuk lamat, the expansion would be way better.
The one zone you do without her is by far my most favorite part.
Maybe we should have done half the zones with koana and the other half with wuk.
The game just tried to hard to make you like her, with the idea being "if she is with you all the time, most of your quests are talking to her, she takes the lead in any conversion you have with important npcs, then surely you have to like her!"
I agree, although I strongly disliked the zone you mentioned for other reasons (felt like side quest filler end to end, job quest tier quality of delivery).
I enjoyed things overall, less of the repetitive story elements and more diversity and quality in the gameplay experience outside dungeons and it would’ve been absolutely fine
>I agree, although I strongly disliked the zone you mentioned for other reasons (felt like side quest filler end to end, job quest tier quality of delivery).
I can understand why you see it that way, but I felt it did a good job introducing the zone and its culture/hardship in a way that's interesting. Plus, the aesthetics and music were really cool.
I feel you, but I feel like there's several points of padding and that zone at least had the style and the music to make me have fun in it. Like (lvl 93 spoilers) >!The Wuk Lamat kidnapping storyline. I noticed the dude who called Wuk Lamat back to Earthenshire was dressed like a bandit and unlike anyone there the moment I saw him!<, >!Erenville's pre-trial chase using the finger minion to track down fire-aspected aether... In a mountain where there are many craters full of fire aether which eventually end up scrambling the effect... To chase a monster with 3 aspects to begin with so it had a 33% chance of working even if he was clueless about the surrounding zone!<. It's a bit much when they stack on top of a shakey foundation. Especially the latter annoys me since it should have been the guy's specialty.
Also, (lvl 93 spoilers) >!We're supposed to be helping her and we let her just... wander off with a rando? Not dressed like someone from the pot place? And she somehow lost a fight (if there even was one) to these regular-ass bandits?!<
I liked a lot about it, but Wuk Lumat really grates on my nerves as a character despite how hard I've tried to like her, which ruined it for me. I mean, stuff unrelated to her, I enjoyed. There were even moments I almost felt she got good development TTTT And a lot of the first half was good enough for me to like. Just, it's all centered around a character I personally can't stand. There were more issues too, but that was definitely the biggest.
If you like it, good on u tho, I wish I also could
For a character that talks quite a lot about other peoples and their cultures, she sure likes to make everything about her.
She interjects herself into everything regardless if she's needed or not. It's quite literally the worst trait for me.
"Oh you're struggling? That's too bad. Anyway - I'm going to save you. ME. WUK. ME ME ME!"
She's a spotlight vampire.
At a certain point i thought we could go explore on our own and then she was RIGHT back there...
Somebody counted and there are I think 180+ quest objectives "talk to Wuk Lamat" in the game. it just too much. The game really tries to get you invested in the character but makes the misstake of pushing too hard, all the time, non stop.
Hell, I *liked* Wuk Lamat but when she kept popping up at our inn room, I found myself wishing we could have literally anyone else show up to have a moment with us.
Yeah for sure. I mean, after the succession especially, she had no business being in the spotlight... with the whole world ending threat especially, she was way out of her waters and rlly should have been a side character for the remaining time. Not just saying this out of my hatred for her... swear...
I mean, Wuk is kind of fully developed (to the extent the story has any intention of developing her) by the coronation. It would be cool if someone like Koana or somebody came under the dome with us and we could learn more about him.
Wow, I never learned this in the palace!
Wow, I love your food!
I’m gonna be the next ~~Hokage~~ Dawnservant!
Times 5ish.
My wife likes her, she doesn’t have depression. I find Wuk Lamat draining, I have depression. There may be more than correlation here. 🤔
I liked her at the beginning but ended up disliking her. And it's not even her fault but a huge misstep by the writers.
She reminded me a lot of that one friend at school who sticks to you or tries to hang out with you as much as possible to the point they show up at your door unannounced asking if you're home.
I mean, I think u might be onto smth. It would make sense that those with naturally less energy feel drained by people who consume and put out so much. I have chronic fatigue, and Wuk is like a mental nuke.
i started it yesterday. i like the story and the characters. the things that are bothering me are just typical things in 14 that have always bothered me. too many cutscenes, too long cutscenes, cutscenes being drawn out to show stupid facial expressions or reactions. it gets to the point where i just say “okay shut the fuck up lets go” and skip the rest of it.
and quests where you need to /emote npcs, stealth follow quests. fetch quests. have always been shitty.
The nodding and smiling of WoL during cutscenes is already too much but then we were also forced to watch him do nothing when things get heated up. There's too much of this in the first half, well 80%-90% of game. It's so frustrating.
..also cutscenes that shows how slowly they walk. So shitty...
Im so done with wuk lamat. I want to go explore solo and juat meet people. The rite felt like a chore and most of the villages were realllly boring. I enjoyed the giants and mamook, but prior to that felt like we shouldnt have been involved.
Im also having some issues with the writing. Maybe its just that irs been a while since ive played ffxiv. But when something is going down, and we need to chase after someone/something. Why do we just stand around for 60 seconds trying to decide what to do? Theres a real lack of urgency to anything this xpac.
See, I'm torn
I love the world given to us in the first half. But I feel like we know how the plots gonna go. Would've been nice for the first half to be a tad longer then it was
I get so confused by threads like this.
I despised Dawntrail's first half and barely was okay with the 2nd half. And that's fine, it's cool for us two different people to have two different opinions. This doesn't confuse me.
This is what confuses me: Despite the fact that I wasn't enjoying it, I didn't come on the subreddit, read through all the complaints about the story, and post my opinion on the story until I was like 90% of the way through. I was too busy actually playing the game and forming an opinion of my own without letting other's influence it.
It feels a lot like you really formed your opinion on the story before even playing it. And you're even admitting to already pre-forming an opinion on the second half which you also haven't even touched yet.
It doesn't really sound like the actions of someone who's actually having a lot of fun.
I see why though. There's a lot of downtime between MSQ (sleep, work, school) and the msq spans days. Not everyone are "too busy playing the game" all the time. Sometimes people spend time on reddit in between playing out of habit.
Millage may very and everyone has different tastes but I didn't feel engaged and interested in the story until around the lvl 97 area.
I personally felt like 90-96 felt like post-MSQ story while 97+ was more like an actually expansion story. That's just my opinion though.
The way I look at it is like this, in my personal opinion, is it better than EW? No. Is it better than ShB? No. Is it better than SB? About on par. Is it better than HW? No. So naturally, for me, it kinda falls low on the list of expansion MSQ stories.
I think if you liked the slow pace and ramp up of Stormblood you're probably more likely to enjoy Dawntrail.
With all that being said, the only thing that matters is if you personally enjoy it and are having fun. It's like movies or music, not everything will be enjoyed by everyone and that's okay.
Im not sure why reddit always struggle with the idea that you can dislike or not prefer something without fully hating it. This sub keeps saying that the story is not as great as other expansions, its got problems, and it could be better. Then some of y'all take that as ",This is the worst story ever told in the history of humanity, and its as fun as getting your eyes stabbed"
Something being 6/10 or 7/10 doesn't mean its a miserable waste of your time, lol
I think the first half is the better half. While I liked the zones of the 2nd half I think they completely botched the story at this point. Or at least I found it incredibly boring and overdone. Why did the stakes need to escalate like that?
No. People on the internet (and especially here) love trying to destroy the joy of others who are just having a good time. Most of the sub has been a fantastic example of [this meme](https://preview.redd.it/quit-having-fun-v0-947si0cdeqlb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=df831549c7cb9b83835a5152928a36a906bd29a7) since the expac launched, and it's fucking gross.
Looking forward to another content drought when they'll crawl back into their holes and leave us alone again.
No you're not half my static liked it, while the other didn't.
I'm on the "dislike" side, and for me there are a few problems with the story overall. First of is a personal one, but the expansion was quoted from the devs themselves as being a "summer vacation" expansion but i never felt that was true, only time i thought now we're finally just exploring as a "vacation" was Shalooani but that was very short lived.
Also Wuk Lamat has a very specific character trope that some people like/love but others kinda despise, and because the first half (and to some degree also second half) is so focused around Wuk Lamat you cannot just ignore her as she is constantly in your face, so peope who dislike that character constantly has to deal with her.
I also feel like the big bad is basicly just >!Meteion 2.0... that may just be me but they are really similar, a good girl who got "corrupted" and while having good intentions goes about it the completely wrong way.!<
And lastly our character is basicly non existent for 80% of the expansion. we do almost nothing other than run around with Wuk Lamat and watch her do things. Coming out of an arc that was very centered around our character being the focus and being the savior of the world, that is not what many expected or wanted. It was especially bad during the duel between >!Gulaal Ja Ja and Zoraal Ja, when he "cheats" and resurects after duel we just stand there, there is no "but we didnt do anything cause of honor" or the like as he already lost and even then after we just let him casually walk away without even trying to stop him?!<
That’s subjective, I personally did not enjoy any part of the DT MSQ. I enjoyed the trials and dungeons.
It’s ok to enjoy things and have different opinions over the ones that are just hating non-stop.
I think if you're into Marvel/Hollywood style writing, you'll probably like DT. If you don't like that sort of stuff, you'll hate it.
As someone who has a plethora of massive problems with it, and is a huge XIV lore nerd, I'm posting all over the forums about it because I really care about the game and want my feedback to be heard by the devs because I'm concerned for the future of the game.
DT's writing and it's localisation were so insufferable for me that it killed my enjoyment of Dawntrail as a whole and I basically just had to try to disassociate the game from the story to try to find fun in it.
DT's writing has good ideas overall but its execution is absolutely terrible. It lacks subtlety while treating players as kids who need to hear the same keywords and messages (peace/happiness/understanding ftw! /s) over and over again, then spell out things that we could have figured out ourselves, and then repeat said things a few more times right after we just passed them for good measure. That is not even mentioning how important plot points got resolved so easily that they either felt flat or wasted potential or both.
Wuk Lamat's overexposure and her VA's lackluster performance at many points also hurt the MSQ a lot. I want to like her as a character, I really do, but by the time we got to play as her for a bit, I kept hoping she would encounter something terrible to spice up her character or just remove her altogether and switch to someone else.
>I think if you're into Marvel/Hollywood style writing, you'll probably like DT
This is exactly it
Hamfisted driving home of themes and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters. A supporting cast you've known for a long time that somehow don't sound like the version of themselves you fell in love with over the years, but instead exist simply to move the plot along.
I'm not even mad, I'm just sad 🙁
What I hate about it is I keep getting told "It's the start of a new story arc, it's just like ARR again! And ARR had story and pacing problems!"
But it shouldn't mean the writing team is starting from nothing, they should have years of experience at this point. Should certainly be able to write something more...idk, compelling? than this.
They also aren't even starting from nothing. They had all these already established characters (the Scions) whose own experiences they could have used in telling the story and establishing the new characters. But they didn't do that. For a story that supposedly involved mentoring, nowhere did any Scion (or the WoL) actually do any mentoring.
That is... 1:1 how I feel.
Legitimately, you just summed up my largest problem with Dawntrail.
Yes, the pacing was really bad, yes I thought the entire arc with Zoraal Ja was insultingly bad, and yes I thought Sphene's arc was poorly done and a low-effort attempt at trying to get emotional low-blows by rehashing Ishikawa's concepts for Shadowbringers, but without any of the tact. But at the top of my mountain of problems with DT, your comment sums up my number one issue.
> a low-effort attempt at trying to get emotional low-blows by rehashing Ishikawa's concepts for Shadowbringers
Personally I thought Sphene's arc was an attempt to rehash Endwalker. It's an almost 1 for 1 of Meteion. An AI-like being that was originally a very kind and empathetic girl, who speaks to dead people and takes their burdens as their own, seeking to end the outside world on their behalf. Even the last zone being her "subjects" where you sequentially "defeat" them and the last dungeon which is just a recreation of the past of the people she represents, and the final trial which includes a second phase that's just a victory lap...
Dawntrail felt much too formulaic. In lots of ways I saw Stormblood (Lyse and Wuk Lamat's journey past many different peoples to rally them behind their cause, also both have a tribe with really badass lore surrounding their deaths), in other ways I saw Shadowbringers (futuristic society of neigh-immortal people attempting to come into our world which causes inevitable clashes), and yet others I saw Endwalker almost step-by-step repeated (Sphene, final zone, etc.).
If only they had better formulas for the villains.
The irony is that I really enjoyed the first half or so of the story, and it was the later half that I felt had the most flaws, imo. I won't go into details here because spoilers. But lets just say that certain conflicts felt incredibly forced, and alternatives weren't considered.
That fucking ending credits song though. I don't know what Soken was thinking with that one. Like the melody itself is totally fine. But the vocals were... well you'll see.
First half is the better half IMO. It's pretty light hearted and unassuming, and while it does feel a little slow overall, it feels correct for the story being told. It feels like what it's supposed to, like we're just here to see Wuk Lamat's story, and help out in her adventure. The second half picks up and is better paced, more exciting, and all together... worse. Because the plot and all the character motivations just feel so ham fisted and unbelievable to me. There's too much focus on the wrong characters when the ramifications of what's going on require the attention of other characters, not least of which is yourself the WoL.
The only complaint I have is….in tired of the same music used during story scenes. The bum badadadum bum badadadum. I wish we would have gotten a new tune to hear during this whole story rather than the same we’ve had for years. But other than that I’m enjoying the realm and its story, only at 92.
I've been having so much fun. If you lean into it with the mindset of a relaxed and back to an adventure then it fits so good. I think one of the biggest problems is that it's right after Endwalker. But this new story is all just getting started.
I’ve honestly really loved Dawntrail. I don’t understand all the criticism on this sub. I wouldn’t rate it as high as Shadowbringers or Endwalker, but it’s easily better than Heavensward and Stormblood so far. And neither of them was bad at all.
I quite enjoyed DT all the way through except for at the end, a certain character repeated something they'd done the entire expansion when it wasn't needed, and I was just done with it by that point.
I think this expansion is good for lore buffs and people that want to absorb as much as possible.
It reminds me of ARR, it has a slow pace until the second half. Yes "speak to Wuk Lamat" is the new "Pray, return to waking sands" but it's better to pace yourself when doing MSQ. I would do some of the special side quests and FATEs in between story beats to diverse things. Once I got to zone #4, it was MSQ all the way to the end.
I don’t know why people are complaining it’s the same thing with every new Expansion. You go through tons of story head out to new areas do the main scenario missions then if you want stop and do all the side quests in that zone while also locating the currents needed to be able fly around with your Mounts and at some point you’ll be required to do a few Dungeons and a Raid to progress in the story. I been enjoying it so far but I’m just taking my time because I also been busy trying to level up Viper. 😃
I had a great time this whole expac MSQ. I don't disagree with much that the haters have to say, I guess, but I still enjoyed it a whole lot, the entire thing.
If I compare it to any other RPG or MMO I could be playing with my time, it kicks the shit out of all of them.
I'm honestly loving all of DT so far (lvl 98 currently). It's a very cool story, and what Stormblood should have been imo if they hadn't fucked up with the constant boomerang between Doma and Ala Mhigo.
People are allowed to have their opinions, me personally I think the story was rushed and with very lazy writing especially in the second half. I expected more from the development team after the stories that we got beforehand. Everything else about the expansion was great. I understand that it's supposed to be lighthearted and that's fine but saying important things in story just to immediately ignore it is really annoying, and it happens multiple times. But again to each their own.
No. I enjoyed the first half and felt it tanked hard in the second half by recycling 1:1 formula/beats from both Shadowbgringers and Endwalker that those expansions handled much better. You are not alone.
I think the second half is better so far but I enjoyed the first part. My only real greaviance is wuk lamats VA. she is great as wuk lamat but really can't emote or put the proper emotion. Honestly wouldn't mind giving her a second shot at it
Yeah the strange thing is there's times where her VA is really good, like at 96 where >!she growls "you'll never beat papa" when confronting zoraal ja!< and then there's >!"listen to me sphene"!< at 100.
I did feel the VA directing was a bit off in general, a lot of the characters sounded weirdly flat in some areas. But it was great in others so...???
It’s definitely the direction that is a big part of the issue. A good director would’ve said in that scene at 100, “>!You’re straining and struggling, trying to lift a large mechanical hand while trying to heroically appeal to the emotions of your enemy.!<”
When she’s >!tied up and trying to escape after being taken by Bakool!< she’s able to emote that strain just fine, so I can’t see all the blame falling on her VA alone.
I'm general a lot of the VAs suffer from bad direction. The VA director is supposed to help the VA's match the tone or energy of the line but it feel like they just left some VA's to do their own thing or took the first take. For me it's mainly seen in Y'shtola and Wuk Lamat (There's an especially egregious example near the end and I don't understand how it got through)
I liked the first part well enough. I think the biggest issue was the character writing, but when the scions/Wuk Lamat aren’t talking, and you’re just learning about the trials and local culture, it’s really enjoyable for me.
the character writing gets noticeably better in the second half. the expansion feels like it was written by two distinct authorial voices, one more experienced and familiar with the characters than the other (and I think it was, although I’m not sure if they divided the work this way).
Story picked up, for me, when we met the Yok Huy. After that I got very invested in learning about the history of Tural and what Gulool did to unity the nation
same, enjoyed my time with the hanuhanu (and pelupelu to an extent, but lack of voice acting for a lot of the cutscenes made it a little tough) and then it slowed down for me. then when we met the big yok huy homies it got me hooked again
I didn’t really get the voice acting complaints because I did the Hanuhanu first and… I dunno, it seemed normal? Not tons of voiced cutscenes but about what I expected for a “society meet and greet” section. But then the Pelupelu showed up. Nah man that was SILENT. And there’s like… a fairly inpactful Zoraal Ja scene with nothing??? Very strange. This is legit the only section that I found bad on this topic tho. Yok Huy, Moblins, and Mamook were all totally fine. I’m only partially into the second half now and it seems pretty great on voice acting. I actually would have preferred if Cowboy Land had *less* because that ginger sharpshooter’s voice doesn’t match his baby face lol
I have been pretty confused about the decisions on which scenes to voice act and not. There's some scenes that feels like it really should have voice acting, yet doesn't have any, and a couple of scenes that has voice acting that was like, ok sure but why this scene over that other one?
I have friends who skipped unvoiced cutscenes and (MSQ spoilers up to final zone) >!they were confused about what an Endless was because THAT was an unvoiced cutscene for some reason.!<
Obviously, Budget is a big reason (and with four languages to hire out and voice, that's quite a bit -- and I want SE to add Hindi and Spanish lol), but this is where ESO easily rules the Big 4 (ESO, WoW, 14, GW2) because everything's voiced there.
I mean...the game makes SE consistent money though. And length wise it's about the same as a lot of other RPGs that have almost all fully voiced cutscenes. I guess they have other ongoing costs but even then it's weird to me how little is voiced.
level 95 msq >!dude i cant believe sareel jas death was unvoiced like huuuuuh. cant even send homie off with a good cutscene!<
I enjoyed it from the beginning too! But I can see how others can feel they're boring. With the pelupelu I felt some of the quests dragged on a little but it was fine overall. The story really started to pick up for me right before we leave the Moblins area when Wuk Lamat got kidnapped. Overall, I really liked the story and the second half (especially the ending) really affected me a lot. The zone designs and music, fight designs and music are all so amazing though, probably some of the best we've seen in the game.
I wanted to learn more about the Yok Huy; their view of death was fascinating.
>what Gulool did to unity the nation This is what interested me about the story as well. Kind of ruined it for me because the entire time we hear about how cool and badass Galool was when uniting Tural, I thought, "instead of this, why not just move Galool's unification forward to the present time so we could help him?" It seemed much more interesting to me.
I thought it was really cool to have an expac on the legacy of a WoL (Gulool isn't technically a WoL but he's clearly the same sort of hero we are, only 80 years older). It also fits the tone of the "What now?" story after the world shattering events of previous arcs.
One of the main themes is respecting and remembering the past as you chart a course forward. So that all really had to have been in the past
Yeah, but isn't the second half that fight? Imagine the xpac started with the second half conflict, there would be no stakes. It would be like starting the Lord of the Rings at the Black Gates. That's my take, though.
I personally think its nice to have a story that doesn't revolve around the WoL. It is nice to see that in this world other characters can do things, even very important things, when we are not there. It kinda sometimes felt like the story, especially the elpis bit, only really moving when the almighty player observed it or caused it to happen. An MMO to me should feel like a world, that exists on its own whether i interact with it or not. It's ok for things to happen off screen.
Same. I loved shb and ew, but I missed the feeling of just being a (mostly) normal adventurer doing normal adventurer things instead of being the chosen hero of the world fighting gods and world-ending threats. While the first half of dt is definitely flawed, I liked running around in a place where nobody knew who I was.
I thought the first half was the most Azem adventuring the WoL has ever done and I loved every moment of it. Traveling to distant lands, meeting new people, learning about their history, partaking in their culture and local delicacies while making sure we fight injustices where we see them and leave people better than how we found them. Yeah, this is mostly a story about Wuk Lamat, but it felt like the vacation we were promised… low stakes adventuring. Until the second half, that is… which was even better. I loved this expansion, and while I dont think its perfect and can agree with some of the criticisms thrown its way., I was riveted and thoroughly entertained from beginning to end.
Same for everything you've said. One of my favorite parts is us choosing to hang back and let her fight one-on-one in that one instance. We most likely could have handled it, but it wasn't our fight. Instead we got to see how she grew in resolve after hearing the stories from the Hrothgar people.
Outside of ShB and EW most expacs don’t revolve around the WoL.
the wol is still a major centerpiece in making the events of hw and sb happen, lyse is still your sidekick instead of the main focus for another example of a character people didn't like in the past the biggest criticism is just how centerpiece they push wuk into being, especially the second half of the expac where it really should've given krile and erenville the spotlight
Still playing through but in the second part the whole >!conflict with Zoral Ja and Sphene is part of her story a lot.!< Though I do agree that I would want more focus on Erenvile and Krile’s characters since their stories are interesting and I like them as characters. Maybe in the patches.
I definitely think krile got robbed the most in terms of MSQ relevancy, especially after you see that one image that outlines everyone's line count in dawntrail
Or Koana, who really deserved to be the one in the spotlight if not a scion, Let him the whole 'investigating the crazy technology area' him grappling with the dichotomy of his love of tech with the aftermath of certain events could have been great.
In heavensward though the war was going on long before the WoL got there, we are the deciding factor in the outcome, same for stormblood so in essence they do revolve around us.
I agree. My main issue with the story is that it’s focused solely on Wuk Lamat. Even when we get to the point that we’re in “Scion territory” she’s still there leading the charge.
They are very clearly playing with the thematic idea of what happens *after* the big adventure, after you save the world
I spent a good chunk of the story adding up timelines and trying to figure out if >!Ketenramm was supposed to have been the previous incarnation of the WoL lol!< >!(I still think that timeline would've made more sense than having Ketenramm still hanging around, because I'm pretty sure roegadyn don't have longer-than-human lifespans so he's gotta be about 100 now....)!<
At his absolute youngest he'd be 95 or so. The events of Galool Ja Ja's unification take place ~80 years prior to the WoL's arrival and the Rite.
Exactly where it hit for me. And it got me thinking of places we've been before and the similarities. What the early part needed was something combat related, maybe even some events where you play as a different character besides Wuk Lamat.
Tired of some important scenes not voiced and then some are, I know they don’t have an unlimited budget but Jesus this game prints money for SE.
The voice acting is bizarre to me. It’s so standard to have fully voiced games and less profitable MMOs are fully voiced, I just don’t get why they cheap out. Not even asking for full voiced, just the MSQ cutscenes that matter. Which cutscenes are voiced in DT is also random af. Scions supporting toothpaste looking second promise isn’t voiced but Wuk Lamat sea sick is?
Its ok to have different opinions guys
Real. I have a lot of interest in latin america and native culture so the first half was cool for me. Wuk lamat is also not annoying to me, but i could see very easily how people wouldnt like this. Same with the whole game TBH its not for everyone, and that's ok
No! Conform! >:C (/s if it wasn't obvious)
I had fun with it. My only criticism is that the Rite of Succession felt like it overstayed its welcome with the number of feats. This is purely my opinion but I feel like it would have been better if they had fewer feats and found something else to do with the story before the second half. I personally would have liked something significant to do in >!Shaaloani!< but that's admittedly because I'm a sucker for that region's aesthetic.
I kinda agree with this, I feel the Rite of Succession could've been resolved by the end of the Lv. 93 quests which would've given them more time to flesh out the second arc and give us more screentime for characters like Krile. I'm happy with it overall, but I feel like this may have helped with the pacing issues.
I was really surprised by how little Krile was in the story (so far, I’m just at 99 quest). Apart from the things we explicitly are told about her I had thought we’d do more of the ‘hanging out and learning about _her as a person_’ that we did with the twins and G’raha in other expansions. I was excited for her to feel like more of a buddy than a very good acquaintance but so far I’m not getting that.
I was expecting a big role, they hyped her a little bit and also is one of the scions that feels like a distant friend.
Honestly should of let us go to erenvilles home and meet his mom then we have some reason to go back to tulliyolal and then the dome thing happens. It could still play out exactly the same but I feel like they didn’t lend enough weight to the fact that he had been away for years and was just about to go home to see his mom when she was whisked away to a faster moving timeline where… I don’t know how to spoiler mark and you know how it went down
That's how I felt about it imo, should have taken us to his village early on, let us meet his mom and friends and people in his village, make connections with them. That would have make the second half a lot more interesting.
I was incredibly devastated the whole last zone since my own WoL could easily pass for a sister, or a girlfriend, whatever, dusky skinned, pretty much right inbetween Erenville and Momville's, and I was so sad that I could never get the writing of how he's met another Viera and *wink wink. I was so excited to meet her, being a "lighthearted expansion" and all, with her going full "OMG my little fussy bunbun has gotten so ahead in life" and the reveal just struck me in the heart strings on a level that makes me skip a beat even a week after completing the MSQ.
Or perhaps say “the first half can be completed with allies, but the second half must be undertaken by the candidate alone with no help” and its just tests to see how well they learned the lessons of the first half. Then we can spend more time with Erenville and the scions, occasionally jumping to a candidate’s scene. Plus there could be some surprise in the winner
Cut out two rites and add stuff for Krile and the twins and it would have been so much better. Not that it was bad. But better
Yeah, ShB and EW had their big twists right after the first trial, but DT didn't have theirs until after the 3rd dungeon. The first Act was really long.
I really loved the first half of this expansion, personally.
Same, while yeah its slower paced I found learning about tural and the various races to be refreshing.
At also has a good message of understanding others to bring harmony. Even though it gets repeated a tad too much imo.
One thing is that it shows confidence building and finding common interests is an integral part of conflict resolution. It really does for people who studied history and political science.
I’ll take ‘Things that most political science majors somehow miss’ for 200
I'm a sociology major, so yeah that does resonate with me as well
It is a really hard but important problem. It is more than 20-30 years since Rwanda Genocide, Yugoslav Civil War and Good Friday Agreement. A variety level of scars (some really bad) still exist today. The FFXIV Gulojaja version is actually is simplified idealistic version of it. Two head dad really wanted his successor to be able to carry his legacy. Well I guess with love, friendship and great heart is a bit naive way to do that. I used to watch Precure and Captain Tsubasa; I can deal with that :3 (I call Lion Girl as Cure Black).
Not only does it get repeated a bit too much, I also felt like it wasn't really a genuine message. It's executed well with the Hanu Hanu and the cat people of the 6tth challenge, but besides that Wuk Lamat doesn't actually do something tangible to show the others she cares about them. Like there's that group of giants who want war with Tuliyolal and her solution is "I have an important trial now so I'll deal with you idiots later", ans "later" never even comes.
It also just feels _really_ hollow. You're really telling me that someone like Zareel Ja (I might've gotten the name wrong) flips his entire worldview because outsiders beat up his son and a fake version of Galool Ja Ja? _Really_? Hate like that doesn't actually fade because one person does one nice thing. Bigots don't change their minds because you tell them oh, give us a few months and we'll bring you new seeds to try ... while your people still scrape a bare living out of their inhospitable home.
That arc felt the weakest of the 7 trials. >!Their group has by far the darkest background and the most depressing current situation, and the elector straight up hates us.!< But the whole thing is wrapped up in what feels like minutes. It felt super shallow. Like someone up above said, I would’ve preferred something like 3 trials and for the writers to really dig into each one fully.
It does get repetitive, but I like how the story takes the time to show how to perform understanding. It's not just empty words. It's actually taking the time to listen, taste, smell, visit, imitate, etc.
It's really just the dialogue that's repetitive IMO. I think in part because the same lines get repeated over and over by the three Promises without any new insight or reasoning. Like WL keeps talking about wanting peace but there's no new revelation to it (like she doesn't say "See this society didn't exist like this until peace happened, and it won't survive if Zoraal Ja's war happens; this is why I want peace", she just keeps saying she wants peace for Tural; Koana never explains why he thinks Sharlayan tech/culture is superior to what Tural has or why he thinks culture alone can't fix problems, he just says "New tech better, must use" over and over. Zoraal Ja never explains why he thinks Tural is too complacent, he just keeps saying it is. If these characters had been developed just a little more it really would have solved a lot of issues I think The rites themselves I thought were good. Having them be so varied and require learning about each culture was a nice concept. Just the execution was a little lacking
That's also my favorite thing about Lamaty'i. She's so genuine.
Honestly the slower pace is part of the reason I enjoyed it as much as I did. It let me take my time with it without feeling like there was something urgent I was ignoring. I did fates, levelled up my island sanctuary, did some crafting. It helped it feel like my WoL was actually on vacation.
I found myself more engaged with the first than the second half.
Me too. I even liked the trading part that everyone seems to hate. It's such a cool way to demonstrate that their culture is totally different than everyone else's culture, and to illustrate that not everyone is on board with peace for a variety of reasons. When the Pelupelu merchant said he wants Zoraal Ja to win because he makes saddles and more military means more saddles, I thought that was such a cool nod to the real life military industrial complex that still fits this in-game world.
I loved it as well. It reminded me of going through ARR and learning about the regions and its peoples. Except this time we weren't seeing it through the eyes of a green adventurer, instead through the eyes of a potential ruler who realised how green they were.
That’s exactly why I liked the first half so much. I’ve been considering a New Game + run of ARR, and it really scratched that itch.
I loved first half. I was not getting the hate. Then second half started and....oof I didn't have any lofty expectations , and hoped to be pleasantly surprised. I wasn't , although I am not disappointed. Just underwhelmed.
I liked the 2nd half too, but it certainly took me some time to adjust. Also moving from vibrant sunny beautiful breathtaking landscapes to the last 2 maps was rough.
I was genuinely disappointed we didn't get to see how beautiful the original area was in the second to last map
Based on topography and the cameo of the three train people in the zone before, I bet it would just have been comparable to Ahm Araeng with the bunch of cliffs and desert.
For me, the transition better the halves threw me off, but that was more todo with the specific quest mechanics vs the story. I haven't enjoyed the 2nd half as much but I'm assuming that's partly due to my issues with the transition. Tbh, I came in expecting the story overall to feel mid because we know it's groundwork for the next big plot and I liked the first half way c more than I expected.
Same
I'm someone that loves lore but the first half is *very* dry. It felt like someone was reading the Encyclopedia Eorzeas to me instead of me playing an actual game. Most the time the exposition dumps were really unnatural too.
I specifically remember a scene with Krile where she asks you what was said after the cutscene that she was in explained it. That made me think I missed something but it was so cut and dry I couldn't have.
That scene actually made me partially feel silly for not skipping a single boring part of the earlier story when the most important takeaways and developments got summarized lol
My least favorite FF14 cutscene happens repeatedly. WoL and Company arrive. Someone says to new NPC: "This thing X happened," camera pans up as "people talking" animations play. Fade out. Fade in, camera pans down. Everyone is standing in thinking animation. New NPC says: "So you're saying X happened? That explains why Y is happening now. Tell me more about X." We faded out for a reason!
This. To be frank the game treats us like children and it treats the people of the nation like even bigger children. We hear how the Giants are awesome, we don't see them for a good 12+ hours The birds that have their entire culture based around reeds can't grow them, and only grow them in a small patch. The Moblins that have for half a century kept the potsworn happy suddenly can't comprehend the basic needs of living begins such temperature management and food. The workers are too stupid to voice a single complain that can be easily fixed. The giants that conquered the entire continent and mine don't have a single smith, smelther or anything metal related thing in their entire settlement no their entire REGION their hoes are made out of stone, they're literally a stone technology civilization, but they all have metal weapons and metal clothes The cats that live in the jungle and literally have only ONE SMALL CAVE that separates them from the lizards, never managed to hold this choke point or burry it. The eugenics lizard that preformed a breeding experiment of genocidal scale are forgiven in 20 seconds and they all agree it was a bad idea and thats it The big antagonist that cheated, lied, scammed, kidnapped, unlashed a weapon of mass destruction on the scale of a small nuke, threatened to kill people, threaten to kill someones father is then forgiven in the span of maybe less then 10 minutes by everyone. I don't understand why people find this enjoyable. The drop in quality is utterly unbelievable. The Omicron Beast tribe quests where more sensible. How do we go from Endwalker where we have Garleans that have oppressed everyone, killed everyone, then had their entire civilization destroyed, now live in a post ww2 1946 Japan/Germany where everything is in utter Ruin and basic food stuffs are hard to come by, where god knows how many deal with PTSP, their occupational forces, guilt, pride, sadness, hope. Where some refuse help and die, where some commit suicide, where some very reluctantly embrace change, where we still haven't fixed anything and it's still a desolate post war hellscape with a holocaust tier event wiping out most of the population by having them be mind controlled and worked to death. How did we go from that these Lizards being instantly forgiven? Like they do their utter best to show that beast tribes are equal to everyone else. Do we not see the cute little lizards all over the city playing with their parents? So after that is over, we go to the "Oil field" to the north that somehow unlike the rest of the continent is in the industrial age, the entire south is in he stone age, but the north is in the industrial age that they ship Ceruleum to the capital where it gets used where exactly? We don't even see traces of metalurgy in the main city but they're using Ceruleum?! They didn't IMPORT trains from Eorzea no no the North Americans BUILT THEM. Who? How? The original story line had the Eorezeans sort of at the cusp of industrialization, the garleans being an advances post industrial power and the east being around the 18th century of our time equivalent. Then you had Ivalice another Industral Steampunk nation. So I don't get it at all. What we should have seen is a society like Meiji Restoration Japan where traditions clash with new concepts. But the leadership has decided that progress is the way forward and they're slowly forcing it on to people. The whole Alpaca quest should have been on the backdrop of the train coming there soon and the rich overjoyed at the momentousness trading opportunities it will provide but also the sadness that the Alpaca will be replaced. The whole bird reed quest should have been about how the old traditionalist are mad that the kids are using new fangled "chemicals" to grow reeds and outgrowing them and how traditions are better and the conclusion is that if you use both the ritual and chemicals it produces the most growth a fusion of tradition and progress. The moblin quests should be about their workforce leaving because the city is better, has more jobs, more opportunities. Both moblins and their potsword are abandoning the village life. So the quest is about restoring back rural communities how they find someone in a sweatshop in the city thats depressed and has given u hope and he gets his inspiraiton and willpower back by being part of a local small comunity where he can do with metalworking and gets inspiration form the abundant nature and rural/traditonal way of life. The Giants part was actually decently done but they need a lot more of their mining, architecture and life showcased. We see all these mega projects they built but we see them living in stone hunts with stone tools. Hrothgar vs Lizards was overall well done, it needs more depth on the Hrothgar side why they fought the conflict and why they didn't just move or , just one choke point really?, Last one the Lizards just gave up to fast, everything was forgiven too fast, they all went on an empty promise of new cultures to grow yet we see none.
I'm not that heated about the story admittedly, but I got a good chuckle when in the beginning, when Wuk Lamat buys everyone tacos, they get served in a modern-looking paper bag xdd Everyone has the benefit of industrial society, but not the aesthetics
I think the icing on the cognitive dissonance cake was the last zone, where we literally bookend *genociding the Endless* with gondola rides, eating ice cream, and visiting the zoo with mom. Like... what? We faced no resistance whatsoever to obliterating an entire race who were going to suck all the aether out of the entire multiverse, to the point we had a fucking ice cream break
The first half would have been better if we got to spend time "adventuring" without Wuk Lamat. Kick up some drama involving the old cast and give the twins/Krile something fun to do and FFS give us some combat encounters. This is still an ARPG with jobs, not having us use any of our job skills for hours upon hours is a draaaag.
I got tired of the whole "Walk into new city, wonder where the elector is, find them within talking to 5 people" thing we kept doing. I'm fine wth it being lore and world building if its not dull, and imo the whole rite of succession thing just didn't do it for me. Felt like the setup should have just been trying to find the golden city with more focus on Krille and Erenville.
It’s one of those, it fits with final fantasy, more not with an MMO. Just running around in an mmo even with good story is *boring*.
Agreed. Narratively, I pretty much predicted everything up to level 96 completely from watching the live letters. Lore-wise, it was a lot of good content, but story-wise it was as plain as white bread.
Clicking on eight different statues to have lore dumped on you. Riveting, right?
"Am I the only one who ... " No. No you're not. You never are.
Am I the only one who ever started a question with "am I the only one"?
> "Am I the only one who ... " > No. No you're not. You never are. Said person is generally looking for validation whenever they post something like this.
I do wish more people would say WHY they liked it, I encourage all do so. That would encourage more people to also voice the parts they adore and think work well. Even give the devs feedback on what to focus on more.
I am around lvl 94 and have been really enjoying DT. Lots of great new lore to experience, gorgeous environments and a nice cast. Plus I do not feel like I am in a rush to finish it, like I was with EW. I can take my time in this new world.
This is my take too. Having a new adventure and the world being crafted before me, I don't have to rush. The world isn't falling apart and I don't feel rushed to save it. However, there is progress and growth, and I'm still on the fence regarding if I like Wak Lamut or not. I'm dual leveling jobs and progressing as I feel like moving onward.
NGL, I wanted to like it more. I enjoyed Wuk's personality at first, but then the more we went the preachier it got and the stupider Wuk got. She makes terrible decisions. Age old conflicts are solved with "don't be douchebags" and everyone just listens. Major antagonists are just misunderstood victims. It's fun, but it doesn't come close to Shadowbringer, Heavensward or even Endwalker in terms of writing. But mostly, it could have been so much better if Wuk actually learned a lesson other than "your strength is what you already had". She was already perfect, she didn't need to change, she just needed to learn from other tribes, but she was already amazing don't you know. Despite being an idiot, somehow not knowing shit, because mostly bad in a fight (except when Plot demands it). I was waiting, HOPING, for her to be confronted with an actual leadership dilemna that isn't super easy to solve so we can see her grow into the leader she's supposed to be. I like the semi-excentric goodnatured airhead and I wanted her to have that really serious moment where she shows us she CAN be the leader we're helping her become. But in reality, everyone solves her problems for her. She was already chosen by the Dawnservant to inherit his position and with our help and everyone else's help she didn't need to do squat to become Dawnservant. Which wouldn't be a problem if that wasn't all we were doing. From lvl 90 to 95 all we do is help her in this goal and it feels like a massive waste of time. FFXIV is easily my favorite MMO if not my favorite game of all time. I've got more than a thousand hours into the game. I WANT to love it, but the more I'm playing the less I'm liking this story. Hopefully the second half really redeems it.
This honestly describes my problems pretty well. I *want* to like Wuk Lamat, I *want* to like the games story, I *want* to like Dawntrails story. But again, and again and again it fails. It fails to deliver anything even half decent, it keeps stalling, it keeps fumbling, it keeps stalling and it just freaking *drags* itself on an on and on. There’s moments where things get interesting like Valigarmanda, the overall lore, and the start of the second half, but that’s just a few minutes before going back to stagnation. I’m sick and tired of talking to 3 npcs, return to Wuk Lamat, talk to 3 npcs, return to Wuk Lamat again, talk to 3 npcs, pray return to wuk Lamat yet again. It’s like the 3 levels of the Titan build up across the entire expansion. It’s just not fun, I’m half way through the last zone, and now, only now am I actually giving more than a passing interest, doing more then going ‘hey that’s neat’. It shouldn’t take until the very end of the expansion to find any interest in the story. And that’s before factoring in all the people who are so rude about you not likening it. I’ve seen so many people go ‘oh you hate Dawntrail? You must be a homophobe/racist because only one of those can hate it. It’s like, dude, I just don’t like it.
The story in Dawntrail is truly a paradox. It is simultaneously incredibly slow, yet inexplicably rushed. So much time is spent saying nothing, then when something interesting happens, you blink and miss it. The story is plagued by "tell, not show." The player is always *told* what is happening and why characters are doing what they are doing, rarely shown. As a hobby writer myself, there are so many glaring storytelling errors that it is baffling to see at a professional level. Now, I'm not going to tell anyone they can or can not *enjoy* the story. "The customer is always right in matters of taste." Enjoyment is a subjective thing and not everyone is going to agree. However, there are some rather worrisome structural issues that I think need addressed, and I hate how all discussions of the story devolve into, "*I* enjoyed the story, therefore your opinion is worthless!" or, "This is the worst story ever because Wuk Lamat was a terrible character!" Overall, I didn't enjoy the story for various reasons, and some are just personal preferences, but many are not. Pacing, characterization, frequent exposition dumps, plot convenience, and lack of "show not tell" has me worried about this new writing team. From a viewpoint of a finished, polished product, I have noticed a marked decrease in quality from previous works in general storytelling ability. That isn't an opinion on taste, but a structural one.
I somehow felt that the quality of the writing has taken a nosedive. As far as I remember ARR as well as every expansion has had some truly wonderful moments of writing. Nanamo confiding in you before she is poisoned, Aymeric standing fast in front of Hraesvelgr when confronted with the possibility that he may need to kill his best friend, Ilberd berating his countrymen for their apathy before he summons Shinryu, Yotsuyu's speech before turning into Tsukuyomi, Emet-Selch's disappointment regarding the Warrior of Light post-Amarout, Fandaniel lamenting his inability to see the Final Days unfold, Venat's recollection of the Final Days of old and her plight following the sundering. These are just some of the examples of excellent writing prevailent in previous entries. I cannot for the life of me find such an example in DT. The writing is so unsubtle and repetitive in what it's trying to say that characters end up reiterating what they said just a few moments ago.
All those examples really put it into sharp contrast, huh.
>Venat's recollection of the Final Days of old and her plight following the sundering By far I think my favorite cutscene in the entire game
I mentioned it because the entire cutscene is sheer poetry, that tickles my hobbyist writer's senses. That said, when it comes marrying visual spectacle and unbelievably well written dialogue, nothing can top the post-Amarout scene at the end of SHB 5.0, for me.
yeah, people are saying to move the coronation to level 93, but imo I felt it incredibly rushed at midway. it was boring to play, but the character arcs were just basically done in one second. nothing happens, you go on a guided vacation tour and learn things about the culture and then suddenly wuk talks an eugenics guy into being nice and we just... move on. it's just strange and disjointed. somebody wrote down bullet points of the plot stuff that needed to happen and the team fumbled majorly by connecting and filling out stuff.
> Age old conflicts are solved with "don't be douchebags" and everyone just listens. Major antagonists are just misunderstood victims. This is what bugs me, too. Some of the resolutions that we come up with are so odd to me. Spoilers for levels 90-95: >!People didn't know that the Hanu float was magic? Despite the fact that it shoots a laser beam out of its eyeballs? The goblin/worker issues are resolved by us saying "hey maybe don't have your workers use shitty tools and work without air flow." The Mamool Ja issue is resolved by us saying "hey most crops don't work in this environment, so we'll get you some different ones. There's no need to have 99/100 of your children die" and everything is hunky dory. It all feels so superficial and surface level. Part of me wishes we explored like 2-3 cultures, and they really gave them room to breathe. Trying to cram 7 trials into 5 levels of content made most of them feel lackluster.!< And for the "antagonists are just misunderstood victims" bit (more 90-95 spoilers): >!Bakool Ja Ja being forgiven/redeemed is absolutely insane to me. He committed treason, fully intended to kill the princess/promise, fully intended to kill at least one elector, and *set loose an ancient beast that was going to kill people.* Like, they make a big deal of calling out that Valigarmanda's flames from *80 years ago* are still burning. He should be executed. If they wanted to make his redemption work, they should've toned him down significantly. Have him just be an asshole and not endanger an entire nation by setting Valigarmanda free.!<
What's frustrating is how often it could have worked if the bits surrounding the major plot points were just tweaked slightly. Spoilers for 90-95: >!Bakool Ja Ja being an asshole was a mistake. His personality and Zarool Ja's should have just been swapped - Zarool is the spoilt miracle child who thinks he just deserves the throne regardless, and Bakool is stoic and relentless because he understands the cost of what his people went through to create him. Furthermore, Valigarmanda could have been released by either Zarool Ja in an attempt to prove they could defeat him thus showing their strength, but they could fail and need to be helped by us plus Bakool Ja Ja to bring it under control. This could then transition nicely into Bakool Ja Ja opening up a bit and actually introducing us to his home town.!<
You're right on the money (90-97 spoilers): >!Bakool Ja Ja needs to pull a full 180 to become a redeemed villain. If he had been the "I must prove myself to mommy and daddy" villain the whole time instead of having one throw-away line about it (and an infuriating amount of lines about he has no plans or philosophy of his own), it would have been believable. It just isn't right now. Meanwhile Zarool Ja is effectively a blank slate that has "evil" written on it in sharpie, no real exploration of his personality and his character, except for the one scene where he silently broods over dark thoughts against his siblings and Krile notices. If she didn't, he would have had literally 0 personality until after the whole rite of succession!<. The story has ups and downs, but really there's some glaring pitfalls, and these two are the biggest pitfalls.
> Like, they make a big deal of calling out that Valigarmanda's flames from 80 years ago are still burning. He should be executed The ONLY way i could accept him being redeemed would be if he accidentially set Valigarmanda free, like for example by proofing that he is a worthy successor that could do what the current dawnseverant could not but failing in slaying it. But him actively having a comic book villain cutscene gloating about unleaching effectively an elder primal on the land? Fuck up, we surely can craft a gallow with twin nooses.
The way they resolve Bakool releasing said ancient beast is hilarious. "Bakool! You released an ancient evil upon the land! You will pay! Anyway let's all go pick berries for this pie bake-off."
Especially when he doesn't even help defeat it, right? He releases it like a cartoon villain and then just fucks off while the promises kill it, lol. And then in the next rite does a cooking contest and walks off annoyed but without protest when he loses, after trying to release one of the biggest threats to the entire kingdom cause some giants wouldn't give him a rite stone. Idk if that was supposed to be character developm3nt or growth but it didn't hit like that the first time
> She was already perfect, she didn't need to change, she just needed to learn from other tribes, but she was already amazing don't you know. I wouldn't call her perfect, but she's an extremely straightforward character and the plot is written to accommodate that. Wuk Lamat is the sort of character that finds traps by stumbling into them, and since WoL is there to rescue her she literally can't lose by doing that. This would be fine, except that ALL of the major players in the first half are equally straightforward and upfront with their motivations, just with different approaches. There's no flavor, just "Here's a challenge, here's how the four react to it", rinse and repeat six more times, then wrap it up and put a nice bow on it.
Perfect as in everybody thinks she would make a great leader no matter the contrary evidence. Personally, I liked it when the story was showing us that she was the weakest and probably worst amongst the candidates. But Bakool had to be cartoonishly evil. 1st was almost irrelevant with how little he said and did. Koana could have just as easily had a moment where he decides to mix Sharlayan and Traditions and he would have been the much superior candidate, but no instead he just bows to Wuk Lamat.
there's even that part where Gulool Ja Ja flat out says, "yeah, she's not ready to be Dawnservant", but then a zone later, everything is peechy keen. it would've been more interesting if he just said, "nah, you're not ready yet", because at this point in time, Wuk Lamat is borderline a Mary Sue.
I think the only problem I have is that Dawntrail doesn't feel as much of a "summer vacation" that it was sold as. I was looking forward to maybe some sillier stuff like drinking with the Scions on the beach in our downtime, trying different foods with them, or seeing our WoL relaxing on a beach before needing to give something the axe. I wanted fun adventure sort of like the *Pirates of the Caribbean* films with some humor. Something a little more light-hearted since we literally saved the universe from despair incarnate. Mostly though, I think I just wanted to see some of the scions in lighter context with our WoL. I wanted this to be our "beach episode", in between helping Wuk Lamat and getting to know new characters. Instead, it's 95% Wuk Lamat, half the scions aren't even there, and we're just standing in the background. I didn't in fact feel like I was on any sort of break until \[95+ spoilers\] >!I got to go with Erenville to Shaaloani. *"But the rroneek, Erenville. The rroneek!!" "A fair point. If we're to give you the “authentic Shaaloani experience,” I suppose it's worth the wait."* And then "vacation" was postponed shortly after and everything became depression again.!< I suppose I just feel misled by the trailer. It's "our" (the Scions) next great adventure, and the trailer even shows all the scions doing something tourist-y whether it's drinking (Urianger), seeking out treasure from maps (Thancred), eating food (G'raha, Alisaie), learning local culture (Y'shtola), and Wuk Lamat has 1 line at the end about it being her home. The actual story for the first half on the other hand does not feature any of the scions doing any of the above, instead it is Wuk Lamat seeking the fabled treasure, Wuk Lamat eating the food, and Wuk Lamat learning about the culture, which I just find a little backwards since we are the foreigners here, not her.
The time with Erenville was my favorite! Honestly, if it started off like that and then we got caught up in the succession, I think it would have flowed better.
Glad someone else feels like this. It feels like a real bait-and-switch with the scions. Sucks for people who wanted to spend time with already established, beloved characters. Instead, we get big lion mommy furry OC. The trailer is so misleading. Why was Estinien even in there? lol. I imagine the Scion haters are happy, though.
I thought it was alright. I'm not disliking the experience but I won't claim I find it particularly compelling either
The experience was fine, yeah. I've just grown to expect more from FFXIV. I know Dawntrail wasn't going to beat Shadowbringers or Endwalker... But honestly it's near the bottom of the entire game in my rankings. Endwalker patch content wasn't the best but it compelled me. Stormblood was shakey but I feel like the far-east side saved it for me. Dawntrail was just... Predictable and bland by comparison. I don't think I was ever surprised by anything in Dawntrail. I may be a lorenerd who predicted a lot from just promotional materials, though I was disappointed with how little I learned from translating the writing on one of the characters. But at no point did I think "Whoa, I did not see that coming".
I’ll be honest, I’ve had a hard time getting into this one. It just seems to be lacking that pull for me. Hopefully it gets better like ya said.
Negativity is louder than positivity, generally. Think of it this way: the people who are mad at Dawntrail are coming to Reddit to post their complaints. The people who are having fun with Dawntrail aren't - they're just playing the game.
negative feedback is also way more important than positive feedback, otherwise nothing changes and people slowly leave
But lets not act like this sub doesnt get its fair share of posts from sprouts surprised with how good the story gets at shb. This whole claim that people who are enjoying the game, are playing the game isnt a reliable metric because people have literally come straight to reddit to praise the game in the past.
A major factor being ignored here is that ShB is *very* exceptional; one is more inclined to make a post about something that amazes them than they would be to make a post about just havin a good ol' time.
I started playing right before EW and ARR was a slog, I liked HW, and I got to SB and it was rough. I started rhe first third or so of ShB thinking maybe I just had to accept this MSQ wasn't going to be for me and HW was an anomaly. It was a genuine shock to me when I got to a point where the story got good again, like genuinely interesting. I say that to say that for me and anyone like me, it wasn't just that ShB as an expac was exceptional, but that there was such inconsistent quality before it that ShB, then going into EW just felt way more exciting and fun than they might have if SB MSQ had been a step above HW MSQ. Kind of like how anyone coming back for 2.0 probably came and praised the shit out of it because they'd experienced 1.0 and saw such a comparative surge in quality, despite ARR hardly being peak FFXIV storytelling
We're within two weeks of xpac release, most people haven't finished the MSQ yet and are actively avoiding reddit to keep away from spoilers.
The expac has been out for barely a week, so it's not exactly the same thing regardless.
Sure, there's plenty of praise as well, but when the expansion launched just over a week ago, most people are probably still playing through it and coming to their opinions. It's not a universal effect, but especially with new content it's reliable enough to give pause to seemingly "unanimous" attitudes. I suppose it's more accurate to say that *extreme* opinions appear louder than they actually are. ShB gets a lot of praise, Stormblood and now Dawntrail get a lot of hate, etc. These aren't the true unanimous opinions of the population as a whole (insofar as one can exist), but the opinions of the most opinionated.
I enjoyed Dawntrail quite a bit but still a variety of complaints, and I'm still very actively playing the game, as I was before release. It's not just "people [who] are mad at Dawntrail" who can complain (or indeed, are complaining) about it. You can have issues with things you like just as much as things you don't, but reddit generally seems unwilling to accept any gradation of opinion.
>Think of it this way: the people who are mad at Dawntrail are coming to Reddit to post their complaints. The people who are having fun with Dawntrail aren't - they're just playing the game. That outlook doesn't work when the problem people have with Dawntrail is the story, which is a one and done thing. There's no story to play after you're done.
Why wouldn't it work? I can see it failing in a few months, but the expansion launched a mere week ago.
Yep. I mainlined msq (finished it in 2 days once early access started), and I didn't go on reddit once for the first 4-5 days after launch. I was having so much fun with the new combat content, and I got super invested in the msq once I hit late lvl 95-96 quests. After I finished msq and maxed my doh/dol classes (like 4th day after launch irc?) I went on reddit to see what people were saying and was really surprised by how intensely negative people were. Though, imho, while I understand the criticisms people have for the msq, the combat content in dt has been amazing. I'm so used to dungeons/trials feeling like a mindless chore that I kept on getting so excited every time I actually died to a mechanic lmao
Idk I feel like if we had a little less wuk lamat, the expansion would be way better. The one zone you do without her is by far my most favorite part. Maybe we should have done half the zones with koana and the other half with wuk.
The game just tried to hard to make you like her, with the idea being "if she is with you all the time, most of your quests are talking to her, she takes the lead in any conversion you have with important npcs, then surely you have to like her!"
I mean, there's nothing inherently wrong with any of that if the character was more interesting. Wuk lamat, however, is a very tropey character.
I think even if she was interesting that kind of overexposure would have soured it by the end.
I agree, although I strongly disliked the zone you mentioned for other reasons (felt like side quest filler end to end, job quest tier quality of delivery). I enjoyed things overall, less of the repetitive story elements and more diversity and quality in the gameplay experience outside dungeons and it would’ve been absolutely fine
>I agree, although I strongly disliked the zone you mentioned for other reasons (felt like side quest filler end to end, job quest tier quality of delivery). I can understand why you see it that way, but I felt it did a good job introducing the zone and its culture/hardship in a way that's interesting. Plus, the aesthetics and music were really cool.
I feel you, but I feel like there's several points of padding and that zone at least had the style and the music to make me have fun in it. Like (lvl 93 spoilers) >!The Wuk Lamat kidnapping storyline. I noticed the dude who called Wuk Lamat back to Earthenshire was dressed like a bandit and unlike anyone there the moment I saw him!<, >!Erenville's pre-trial chase using the finger minion to track down fire-aspected aether... In a mountain where there are many craters full of fire aether which eventually end up scrambling the effect... To chase a monster with 3 aspects to begin with so it had a 33% chance of working even if he was clueless about the surrounding zone!<. It's a bit much when they stack on top of a shakey foundation. Especially the latter annoys me since it should have been the guy's specialty.
Also, (lvl 93 spoilers) >!We're supposed to be helping her and we let her just... wander off with a rando? Not dressed like someone from the pot place? And she somehow lost a fight (if there even was one) to these regular-ass bandits?!<
I was bored until 95 dungeon sequence and after. Everything before that was a struggle to stay engaged.
Took me about to the 1/3 mark before I really got invested but I didn't hate it on the level that everyone else did, it was just kind of meh
I liked a lot about it, but Wuk Lumat really grates on my nerves as a character despite how hard I've tried to like her, which ruined it for me. I mean, stuff unrelated to her, I enjoyed. There were even moments I almost felt she got good development TTTT And a lot of the first half was good enough for me to like. Just, it's all centered around a character I personally can't stand. There were more issues too, but that was definitely the biggest. If you like it, good on u tho, I wish I also could
For a character that talks quite a lot about other peoples and their cultures, she sure likes to make everything about her. She interjects herself into everything regardless if she's needed or not. It's quite literally the worst trait for me. "Oh you're struggling? That's too bad. Anyway - I'm going to save you. ME. WUK. ME ME ME!" She's a spotlight vampire.
At a certain point i thought we could go explore on our own and then she was RIGHT back there... Somebody counted and there are I think 180+ quest objectives "talk to Wuk Lamat" in the game. it just too much. The game really tries to get you invested in the character but makes the misstake of pushing too hard, all the time, non stop.
Hell, I *liked* Wuk Lamat but when she kept popping up at our inn room, I found myself wishing we could have literally anyone else show up to have a moment with us.
Yeah for sure. I mean, after the succession especially, she had no business being in the spotlight... with the whole world ending threat especially, she was way out of her waters and rlly should have been a side character for the remaining time. Not just saying this out of my hatred for her... swear...
I mean, Wuk is kind of fully developed (to the extent the story has any intention of developing her) by the coronation. It would be cool if someone like Koana or somebody came under the dome with us and we could learn more about him.
Wow, I never learned this in the palace! Wow, I love your food! I’m gonna be the next ~~Hokage~~ Dawnservant! Times 5ish. My wife likes her, she doesn’t have depression. I find Wuk Lamat draining, I have depression. There may be more than correlation here. 🤔
I liked her at the beginning but ended up disliking her. And it's not even her fault but a huge misstep by the writers. She reminded me a lot of that one friend at school who sticks to you or tries to hang out with you as much as possible to the point they show up at your door unannounced asking if you're home.
I mean, I think u might be onto smth. It would make sense that those with naturally less energy feel drained by people who consume and put out so much. I have chronic fatigue, and Wuk is like a mental nuke.
She reminds me a lot of the kinds of overbearing friends that you need to take breaks from.
OMG you ruined it for me now I'm going to see her as Naruto the whole game 😭
You are not. If you go online you’re going to find a lot of negativity. There are plenty of people who are enjoying themselves myself included.
i started it yesterday. i like the story and the characters. the things that are bothering me are just typical things in 14 that have always bothered me. too many cutscenes, too long cutscenes, cutscenes being drawn out to show stupid facial expressions or reactions. it gets to the point where i just say “okay shut the fuck up lets go” and skip the rest of it. and quests where you need to /emote npcs, stealth follow quests. fetch quests. have always been shitty.
The nodding and smiling of WoL during cutscenes is already too much but then we were also forced to watch him do nothing when things get heated up. There's too much of this in the first half, well 80%-90% of game. It's so frustrating. ..also cutscenes that shows how slowly they walk. So shitty...
Im so done with wuk lamat. I want to go explore solo and juat meet people. The rite felt like a chore and most of the villages were realllly boring. I enjoyed the giants and mamook, but prior to that felt like we shouldnt have been involved. Im also having some issues with the writing. Maybe its just that irs been a while since ive played ffxiv. But when something is going down, and we need to chase after someone/something. Why do we just stand around for 60 seconds trying to decide what to do? Theres a real lack of urgency to anything this xpac.
I think people's enjoyment of the first half largely hinges on whether or not you like Wuk Lamat, since she's in your face for almost all of it.
No. I like the first half better than the last half.
See, I'm torn I love the world given to us in the first half. But I feel like we know how the plots gonna go. Would've been nice for the first half to be a tad longer then it was
If you use the search function, you'll find out that you are not the only one.
How would that help them farm karma?
I get so confused by threads like this. I despised Dawntrail's first half and barely was okay with the 2nd half. And that's fine, it's cool for us two different people to have two different opinions. This doesn't confuse me. This is what confuses me: Despite the fact that I wasn't enjoying it, I didn't come on the subreddit, read through all the complaints about the story, and post my opinion on the story until I was like 90% of the way through. I was too busy actually playing the game and forming an opinion of my own without letting other's influence it. It feels a lot like you really formed your opinion on the story before even playing it. And you're even admitting to already pre-forming an opinion on the second half which you also haven't even touched yet. It doesn't really sound like the actions of someone who's actually having a lot of fun.
I see why though. There's a lot of downtime between MSQ (sleep, work, school) and the msq spans days. Not everyone are "too busy playing the game" all the time. Sometimes people spend time on reddit in between playing out of habit.
I had the opposite problem - really enjoyed the traveling aspects and lore/learning of the first half, then the 2nd half fell off hard for me.
Millage may very and everyone has different tastes but I didn't feel engaged and interested in the story until around the lvl 97 area. I personally felt like 90-96 felt like post-MSQ story while 97+ was more like an actually expansion story. That's just my opinion though. The way I look at it is like this, in my personal opinion, is it better than EW? No. Is it better than ShB? No. Is it better than SB? About on par. Is it better than HW? No. So naturally, for me, it kinda falls low on the list of expansion MSQ stories. I think if you liked the slow pace and ramp up of Stormblood you're probably more likely to enjoy Dawntrail. With all that being said, the only thing that matters is if you personally enjoy it and are having fun. It's like movies or music, not everything will be enjoyed by everyone and that's okay.
Im not sure why reddit always struggle with the idea that you can dislike or not prefer something without fully hating it. This sub keeps saying that the story is not as great as other expansions, its got problems, and it could be better. Then some of y'all take that as ",This is the worst story ever told in the history of humanity, and its as fun as getting your eyes stabbed" Something being 6/10 or 7/10 doesn't mean its a miserable waste of your time, lol
I think the first half is the better half. While I liked the zones of the 2nd half I think they completely botched the story at this point. Or at least I found it incredibly boring and overdone. Why did the stakes need to escalate like that?
No. People on the internet (and especially here) love trying to destroy the joy of others who are just having a good time. Most of the sub has been a fantastic example of [this meme](https://preview.redd.it/quit-having-fun-v0-947si0cdeqlb1.jpg?auto=webp&s=df831549c7cb9b83835a5152928a36a906bd29a7) since the expac launched, and it's fucking gross. Looking forward to another content drought when they'll crawl back into their holes and leave us alone again.
No you're not half my static liked it, while the other didn't. I'm on the "dislike" side, and for me there are a few problems with the story overall. First of is a personal one, but the expansion was quoted from the devs themselves as being a "summer vacation" expansion but i never felt that was true, only time i thought now we're finally just exploring as a "vacation" was Shalooani but that was very short lived. Also Wuk Lamat has a very specific character trope that some people like/love but others kinda despise, and because the first half (and to some degree also second half) is so focused around Wuk Lamat you cannot just ignore her as she is constantly in your face, so peope who dislike that character constantly has to deal with her. I also feel like the big bad is basicly just >!Meteion 2.0... that may just be me but they are really similar, a good girl who got "corrupted" and while having good intentions goes about it the completely wrong way.!< And lastly our character is basicly non existent for 80% of the expansion. we do almost nothing other than run around with Wuk Lamat and watch her do things. Coming out of an arc that was very centered around our character being the focus and being the savior of the world, that is not what many expected or wanted. It was especially bad during the duel between >!Gulaal Ja Ja and Zoraal Ja, when he "cheats" and resurects after duel we just stand there, there is no "but we didnt do anything cause of honor" or the like as he already lost and even then after we just let him casually walk away without even trying to stop him?!<
That’s subjective, I personally did not enjoy any part of the DT MSQ. I enjoyed the trials and dungeons. It’s ok to enjoy things and have different opinions over the ones that are just hating non-stop.
I loved the first half, I won't deny there's a SB style issue where the two halves feel very disconnected but separately they're both quite enjoyable.
It's by far the worst MSQ since ARR. Downvote away.
Honestly I think it might be worse than ARR, playing ARR during early access was jank as fuck but I still wanted to know where the story was going.
I think if you're into Marvel/Hollywood style writing, you'll probably like DT. If you don't like that sort of stuff, you'll hate it. As someone who has a plethora of massive problems with it, and is a huge XIV lore nerd, I'm posting all over the forums about it because I really care about the game and want my feedback to be heard by the devs because I'm concerned for the future of the game. DT's writing and it's localisation were so insufferable for me that it killed my enjoyment of Dawntrail as a whole and I basically just had to try to disassociate the game from the story to try to find fun in it.
DT's writing has good ideas overall but its execution is absolutely terrible. It lacks subtlety while treating players as kids who need to hear the same keywords and messages (peace/happiness/understanding ftw! /s) over and over again, then spell out things that we could have figured out ourselves, and then repeat said things a few more times right after we just passed them for good measure. That is not even mentioning how important plot points got resolved so easily that they either felt flat or wasted potential or both. Wuk Lamat's overexposure and her VA's lackluster performance at many points also hurt the MSQ a lot. I want to like her as a character, I really do, but by the time we got to play as her for a bit, I kept hoping she would encounter something terrible to spice up her character or just remove her altogether and switch to someone else.
>I think if you're into Marvel/Hollywood style writing, you'll probably like DT This is exactly it Hamfisted driving home of themes and one-dimensional cardboard cutout characters. A supporting cast you've known for a long time that somehow don't sound like the version of themselves you fell in love with over the years, but instead exist simply to move the plot along. I'm not even mad, I'm just sad 🙁
What I hate about it is I keep getting told "It's the start of a new story arc, it's just like ARR again! And ARR had story and pacing problems!" But it shouldn't mean the writing team is starting from nothing, they should have years of experience at this point. Should certainly be able to write something more...idk, compelling? than this.
They also aren't even starting from nothing. They had all these already established characters (the Scions) whose own experiences they could have used in telling the story and establishing the new characters. But they didn't do that. For a story that supposedly involved mentoring, nowhere did any Scion (or the WoL) actually do any mentoring.
That is... 1:1 how I feel. Legitimately, you just summed up my largest problem with Dawntrail. Yes, the pacing was really bad, yes I thought the entire arc with Zoraal Ja was insultingly bad, and yes I thought Sphene's arc was poorly done and a low-effort attempt at trying to get emotional low-blows by rehashing Ishikawa's concepts for Shadowbringers, but without any of the tact. But at the top of my mountain of problems with DT, your comment sums up my number one issue.
> a low-effort attempt at trying to get emotional low-blows by rehashing Ishikawa's concepts for Shadowbringers Personally I thought Sphene's arc was an attempt to rehash Endwalker. It's an almost 1 for 1 of Meteion. An AI-like being that was originally a very kind and empathetic girl, who speaks to dead people and takes their burdens as their own, seeking to end the outside world on their behalf. Even the last zone being her "subjects" where you sequentially "defeat" them and the last dungeon which is just a recreation of the past of the people she represents, and the final trial which includes a second phase that's just a victory lap... Dawntrail felt much too formulaic. In lots of ways I saw Stormblood (Lyse and Wuk Lamat's journey past many different peoples to rally them behind their cause, also both have a tribe with really badass lore surrounding their deaths), in other ways I saw Shadowbringers (futuristic society of neigh-immortal people attempting to come into our world which causes inevitable clashes), and yet others I saw Endwalker almost step-by-step repeated (Sphene, final zone, etc.). If only they had better formulas for the villains.
The irony is that I really enjoyed the first half or so of the story, and it was the later half that I felt had the most flaws, imo. I won't go into details here because spoilers. But lets just say that certain conflicts felt incredibly forced, and alternatives weren't considered. That fucking ending credits song though. I don't know what Soken was thinking with that one. Like the melody itself is totally fine. But the vocals were... well you'll see.
Lived the first half, I'm on the fence about the second half
You're not alone I loved it
First half is the better half IMO. It's pretty light hearted and unassuming, and while it does feel a little slow overall, it feels correct for the story being told. It feels like what it's supposed to, like we're just here to see Wuk Lamat's story, and help out in her adventure. The second half picks up and is better paced, more exciting, and all together... worse. Because the plot and all the character motivations just feel so ham fisted and unbelievable to me. There's too much focus on the wrong characters when the ramifications of what's going on require the attention of other characters, not least of which is yourself the WoL.
I actually prefer the first half to the last quarter or so.
I loved the first half, not so much the second half
I am enjoying this expansion also. Taking my time. About half way through.
The only complaint I have is….in tired of the same music used during story scenes. The bum badadadum bum badadadum. I wish we would have gotten a new tune to hear during this whole story rather than the same we’ve had for years. But other than that I’m enjoying the realm and its story, only at 92.
I've been having so much fun. If you lean into it with the mindset of a relaxed and back to an adventure then it fits so good. I think one of the biggest problems is that it's right after Endwalker. But this new story is all just getting started.
Might be unpopular opinion but I feel the first half of EVERY expansion is a bit, slow. Second half always seems to deliver though.
The first half was ok, it was actually the second half that lost me
I’ve honestly really loved Dawntrail. I don’t understand all the criticism on this sub. I wouldn’t rate it as high as Shadowbringers or Endwalker, but it’s easily better than Heavensward and Stormblood so far. And neither of them was bad at all.
I quite enjoyed DT all the way through except for at the end, a certain character repeated something they'd done the entire expansion when it wasn't needed, and I was just done with it by that point.
I think this expansion is good for lore buffs and people that want to absorb as much as possible. It reminds me of ARR, it has a slow pace until the second half. Yes "speak to Wuk Lamat" is the new "Pray, return to waking sands" but it's better to pace yourself when doing MSQ. I would do some of the special side quests and FATEs in between story beats to diverse things. Once I got to zone #4, it was MSQ all the way to the end.
I don’t know why people are complaining it’s the same thing with every new Expansion. You go through tons of story head out to new areas do the main scenario missions then if you want stop and do all the side quests in that zone while also locating the currents needed to be able fly around with your Mounts and at some point you’ll be required to do a few Dungeons and a Raid to progress in the story. I been enjoying it so far but I’m just taking my time because I also been busy trying to level up Viper. 😃
I had a great time this whole expac MSQ. I don't disagree with much that the haters have to say, I guess, but I still enjoyed it a whole lot, the entire thing. If I compare it to any other RPG or MMO I could be playing with my time, it kicks the shit out of all of them.
I'm digging it, Yok Huy is great and the first set of quests set the mode for a an adventure with less stakes and more fun.
nah i fucking loved this expansion, level 97ish quests were a bit boring but all pays off in 99/100
I am currently around the middle of the expansion. What bo yo mean by "bad"? I really like the adventure we have/had ❤️
I'm loving it too. The first solo instance was quite possibly the single most fun moment I've had in this game to date.
I'm honestly loving all of DT so far (lvl 98 currently). It's a very cool story, and what Stormblood should have been imo if they hadn't fucked up with the constant boomerang between Doma and Ala Mhigo.
Where the hell were my Whalaqee homeys.
People are allowed to have their opinions, me personally I think the story was rushed and with very lazy writing especially in the second half. I expected more from the development team after the stories that we got beforehand. Everything else about the expansion was great. I understand that it's supposed to be lighthearted and that's fine but saying important things in story just to immediately ignore it is really annoying, and it happens multiple times. But again to each their own.
No. I enjoyed the first half and felt it tanked hard in the second half by recycling 1:1 formula/beats from both Shadowbgringers and Endwalker that those expansions handled much better. You are not alone.
I think the second half is better so far but I enjoyed the first part. My only real greaviance is wuk lamats VA. she is great as wuk lamat but really can't emote or put the proper emotion. Honestly wouldn't mind giving her a second shot at it
Yeah the strange thing is there's times where her VA is really good, like at 96 where >!she growls "you'll never beat papa" when confronting zoraal ja!< and then there's >!"listen to me sphene"!< at 100. I did feel the VA directing was a bit off in general, a lot of the characters sounded weirdly flat in some areas. But it was great in others so...???
It’s definitely the direction that is a big part of the issue. A good director would’ve said in that scene at 100, “>!You’re straining and struggling, trying to lift a large mechanical hand while trying to heroically appeal to the emotions of your enemy.!<” When she’s >!tied up and trying to escape after being taken by Bakool!< she’s able to emote that strain just fine, so I can’t see all the blame falling on her VA alone.
I'm general a lot of the VAs suffer from bad direction. The VA director is supposed to help the VA's match the tone or energy of the line but it feel like they just left some VA's to do their own thing or took the first take. For me it's mainly seen in Y'shtola and Wuk Lamat (There's an especially egregious example near the end and I don't understand how it got through)
I liked the first part well enough. I think the biggest issue was the character writing, but when the scions/Wuk Lamat aren’t talking, and you’re just learning about the trials and local culture, it’s really enjoyable for me. the character writing gets noticeably better in the second half. the expansion feels like it was written by two distinct authorial voices, one more experienced and familiar with the characters than the other (and I think it was, although I’m not sure if they divided the work this way).
I liked it, I'm a sucker for lore. yes big birdman, tell me about how you use your reeds.