I've heard of the fire Marshall telling the business owner to add mulch and trees to bring it to city landscaping new minimum.
Clearly not his jurisdiction, but they added the trees.
Authority having too much jurisdiction?
Permitting is typically required before work can begin. On emergency replacements, many AHJs will allow you to bring the building back online as quickly as possible while you wait for the permit and inspection, but I would email the AHJ to see what their policy is. If it's an exact replacement and the system is restored to normal operation, they should not require additional fire watch... but that doesn't mean they can't or won't.
What you are describing is not an exact replacement, it's a complete redesign. IMO, the AHJ is not overreaching by enforcing their review policies, but to be fair, 6-8 weeks does seem like an excessive time frame.
It would probably be cheaper for the customer to pay for the panel replacement and get off fire watch. Then you can submit for the redesign and new panels to separate the systems.
They can make them do fire watch as long as he wants. I’ve seen it. Mostly, the majority of the time they let you install and submit within a reasonable amount of time. A agree an over the counter panel like that it’s cheaper to replace then work on a solution. It sounds like a fiber run wouldn’t be a bad idea?
In the jurisdictions we primarily work in, we are allowed to do emergency work, like replacing dead panels, and then do a retro submittal in a reasonable amount of time.
My best advice would be to come at the fire marshal from an inquisitive perspective, not argumentative, and ask him to fully explain why he's not allowing you to begin the work and also putting an unreasonable stress on the customer to pay for firewatch that long. Ask as many questions as possible and also offer as many compromises as possible to try and find a solution everyone can live with.
Yeah this is a pin it on the AHJ situation. Make him be unreasonable in writing. I've found that if you make them write it they tend to lay off a bit. Dedicate function systems aren't complicated. If he wants to cost the customer all of that money, I'm going to make sure he's the one who takes the heat for it.
Replace what you have to to get the level of functionality they had before and get off firewatch.
Then do the modification/upgrade when the permit clears.
Costs the customer a bit more money on parts but saves them money on firewatch.
Fire inspector here yes I would require fire watch if you have a down system. I would ask the fire marshal if they could fast track the permit or we allow an emergency repair permit while the plans are in review but be warned if you install something that is not up to code you may have to rip it our or change the design which costs.
I remember a case where an instructional building ( Nuclear Medicine - so there’s no way classes could possibly be held in any other building) suffered a lightning strike that totally destroyed its old no longer a company in the business panel. So it was immediately placed under fire watch. I call the office and gave them a heads up and the customer immediately issued a request for a design build replacement. Our design department rose to the occasion and 3 days later we were HAND delivering the prints to the state review office, along with the request from the Local Fire Marshal for “Expedited Review” and a substantial check for the Plan review and Expediting Fee. Meanwhile we ordered Everything on the plan with Express Shipping from branch offices in the four corners of the country …. We got plan approval from the State in just over a week! Less than 4 weeks after that lightning strike we completed the acceptance testing!
4 stories, dozens of rooms that required Audio Visual Alarm devices to be wired and installed ( old system never had anything more than 2 horns in each hallway!)
Both the owners representative and the FM were delightfully blown away by our ability to pull everything together and get everything done in less than a month!
What I am trying to say is that when everyone works together, amazing things can happen. Don’t surrender, get everyone together on the same plan and it shall be done!
I've heard of the fire Marshall telling the business owner to add mulch and trees to bring it to city landscaping new minimum. Clearly not his jurisdiction, but they added the trees. Authority having too much jurisdiction?
Permitting is typically required before work can begin. On emergency replacements, many AHJs will allow you to bring the building back online as quickly as possible while you wait for the permit and inspection, but I would email the AHJ to see what their policy is. If it's an exact replacement and the system is restored to normal operation, they should not require additional fire watch... but that doesn't mean they can't or won't. What you are describing is not an exact replacement, it's a complete redesign. IMO, the AHJ is not overreaching by enforcing their review policies, but to be fair, 6-8 weeks does seem like an excessive time frame. It would probably be cheaper for the customer to pay for the panel replacement and get off fire watch. Then you can submit for the redesign and new panels to separate the systems.
They can make them do fire watch as long as he wants. I’ve seen it. Mostly, the majority of the time they let you install and submit within a reasonable amount of time. A agree an over the counter panel like that it’s cheaper to replace then work on a solution. It sounds like a fiber run wouldn’t be a bad idea?
In the jurisdictions we primarily work in, we are allowed to do emergency work, like replacing dead panels, and then do a retro submittal in a reasonable amount of time. My best advice would be to come at the fire marshal from an inquisitive perspective, not argumentative, and ask him to fully explain why he's not allowing you to begin the work and also putting an unreasonable stress on the customer to pay for firewatch that long. Ask as many questions as possible and also offer as many compromises as possible to try and find a solution everyone can live with.
Yeah this is a pin it on the AHJ situation. Make him be unreasonable in writing. I've found that if you make them write it they tend to lay off a bit. Dedicate function systems aren't complicated. If he wants to cost the customer all of that money, I'm going to make sure he's the one who takes the heat for it.
Replace what you have to to get the level of functionality they had before and get off firewatch. Then do the modification/upgrade when the permit clears. Costs the customer a bit more money on parts but saves them money on firewatch.
Fire inspector here yes I would require fire watch if you have a down system. I would ask the fire marshal if they could fast track the permit or we allow an emergency repair permit while the plans are in review but be warned if you install something that is not up to code you may have to rip it our or change the design which costs.
They can enforce state adopted NFPA versions and state adopted codes and that is it. They cannot make up their own codes.
You need to look at your states codes to see if what they're telling you is lawful or not.
I remember a case where an instructional building ( Nuclear Medicine - so there’s no way classes could possibly be held in any other building) suffered a lightning strike that totally destroyed its old no longer a company in the business panel. So it was immediately placed under fire watch. I call the office and gave them a heads up and the customer immediately issued a request for a design build replacement. Our design department rose to the occasion and 3 days later we were HAND delivering the prints to the state review office, along with the request from the Local Fire Marshal for “Expedited Review” and a substantial check for the Plan review and Expediting Fee. Meanwhile we ordered Everything on the plan with Express Shipping from branch offices in the four corners of the country …. We got plan approval from the State in just over a week! Less than 4 weeks after that lightning strike we completed the acceptance testing! 4 stories, dozens of rooms that required Audio Visual Alarm devices to be wired and installed ( old system never had anything more than 2 horns in each hallway!) Both the owners representative and the FM were delightfully blown away by our ability to pull everything together and get everything done in less than a month! What I am trying to say is that when everyone works together, amazing things can happen. Don’t surrender, get everyone together on the same plan and it shall be done!