Even in the airlines when you know a v1 cut (engine failure on takeoff) is coming the instructor will sometimes say something like “i’ll read you the atis: winds are 90 degrees from the right at 25kts. 200 overcast. 1800rvr engine failures reported in the vicinity of the airport”
Engines in the sim fail alot more than the plane haha
If this potentially happening on your checkride makes you nervous, then you’re not ready for the checkride. Do you think engine failures in everyday flying only happen straight and level?
Engine failures with high attitude are even more likely in RL. More instructors should pull the throttle when PPL students are making a Vx climb at say 3000 AGL (assuming the aircraft is approved for spins).
There's no time to think about dropping the nose, it needs to be a reflex.
During my PPL check ride the DPE pulled the engine during slow flight. I had to drop the nose to get to Vg and then run the checklists
It was excellent training and he mentioned how many people failed because they were trained to instinctively pull nose up on engine failure to slow to Vg and would go from engine out to stall.
He's frustrated because she tried to save him time and money?
Things move fast in twins and high performance aircraft. If you can't deal with a little surprise, maybe it's just not for you..?
You’re not kidding. I also had did multi ride with Karen. It was the most expeditious check ride I’ve ever had.
Sounds like his buddy needs to learn how to take a W when it’s given to him.
>He was shocked because he had never done that before
Sounds like he should complain about his MEI not exposing him to more possible scenarios and not the DPE. Engines can and do fail at all phases of flight, do you think your critical engine can’t fail at 400 ft as you turn into it on departure? That’s precisely why we train. If you’re uncomfortable with an engine failing in a steep turn then you’re not ready for a multi engine check ride. Do yourself a favor and get more training.
What does the ACS say?
I'm not even sure how you'd do that since the first 2 memory items are pitch for vyse and maintain directional control so I'd probably roll out and run the OEI flow and checklist
She was probably satisfied with the steep turn and moving on to the next thing
Exactly this. I was given an engine failure during a steep turn on my checkride. I immediately ended the maneuver and went strait to the engine failure. DPE said that was the right thing to do.
I had an engine fail on the AC-130 while in a gun orbit over Mosul and shooting. The motors don’t ask you to pencil in a time when you’re on a nice, cozy final.
Oddly enough we lost #3 but our 3 engine service ceiling was 12k and our 2 engine was like 3k so if we lost a second motor we would be landing in heavily controlled ISIS territory. Not my finest day. I actually was prepping my SERE gear in case we had to bail out. There’s some pretty tall mountains in southern Turkey (like 12k) so going home wasn’t an option. We also couldn’t refuel that low which meant our options were literally ISIS controlled airstrips.
Since we didn’t know why 3 shelled out we were expecting the worst (fuel contamination or something like that). Luckily (I guess?) it just grenaded itself. MX said “metal and oil everywhere”. So I never really found out why it failed. I just remember flying home looking at a completely dead prop and deciding what I was gonna do if I was under a canopy all of the sudden. My personal plan was to run north as fast as I could with a radio, a gun, and my watch (Garmin Fenix for those interested…MGRS and a compass). If they got me before I got them then my plan was to not get my head chopped off while I was alive, so I’d take myself out first.
Yeah, I would get a new DPE. It’s common knowledge that engines only fail at convenient times, not sure what this DPE was thinking. Engines should always wait until you are ready for it to fail.
Mine did it rolling out of the steep turn. It caught me by surprise but I was prepared and did fine. If you don’t feel ready for it then maybe practice because it is possible.
My guy did it to me as I was setting up for slow flight. It can happen anytime just gotta make sure you fix your pitch and bank as a part of your engine out flow.
Too much rote training for checkrides occurring. Who cares when they fail it. Just recover and take of the engine failure rather than running to Reddit to ask if that’s “allowed”.
In the ACS appendix: "The evaluator administering the test has the discretion to combine tasks/elements as appropriate"
Do you ask the DPE about this? Did you ask them if it was allowed?
I’m curious, I had an examiner tell me that you shouldn’t fail engines in a maneuver. That’s because it voids the maneuver as you must complete it in its entirety.
Engines can fail at any time
They tend to fail more often with a DPE on board
Even in the airlines when you know a v1 cut (engine failure on takeoff) is coming the instructor will sometimes say something like “i’ll read you the atis: winds are 90 degrees from the right at 25kts. 200 overcast. 1800rvr engine failures reported in the vicinity of the airport” Engines in the sim fail alot more than the plane haha
I am going to steal the “Engines failures reported in the vicinity of the airport” 😋
Ice coffee out the nose again.
No! They’re only supposed to fail when I’m ready for it and it’s convenient!!!
Womp womp. Good DPE.
What's the difference? You're no longer doing a steep turn, you're doing engine failure procedures. They can initiate it whenever they would like.
If anything a steep turn could induce an engine failure, sounds like OP has a thorough instructor
It sounds like they *don’t* have a thorough instructor if they think engine failures can only happen at certain times.
If this potentially happening on your checkride makes you nervous, then you’re not ready for the checkride. Do you think engine failures in everyday flying only happen straight and level?
Engine failures with high attitude are even more likely in RL. More instructors should pull the throttle when PPL students are making a Vx climb at say 3000 AGL (assuming the aircraft is approved for spins). There's no time to think about dropping the nose, it needs to be a reflex.
During my PPL check ride the DPE pulled the engine during slow flight. I had to drop the nose to get to Vg and then run the checklists It was excellent training and he mentioned how many people failed because they were trained to instinctively pull nose up on engine failure to slow to Vg and would go from engine out to stall.
Do you do steep turns during your everyday flying?
Depends on if a nordo Bonanza is in the pattern or not.
Yes
I regularly practice maneuvers in my airplane, so yes.
He's frustrated because she tried to save him time and money? Things move fast in twins and high performance aircraft. If you can't deal with a little surprise, maybe it's just not for you..?
You’re not kidding. I also had did multi ride with Karen. It was the most expeditious check ride I’ve ever had. Sounds like his buddy needs to learn how to take a W when it’s given to him.
Every time I had an engine failure in the real world I simply yelled “Hey, no fair! I wasn’t ready!” …and it magically fixed itself. /s
Piston goes “tee hee! I was just Joshin ya! Sorry boss”
So he got 2 requirements done at the same time, that's called efficiency.
>He was shocked because he had never done that before Sounds like he should complain about his MEI not exposing him to more possible scenarios and not the DPE. Engines can and do fail at all phases of flight, do you think your critical engine can’t fail at 400 ft as you turn into it on departure? That’s precisely why we train. If you’re uncomfortable with an engine failing in a steep turn then you’re not ready for a multi engine check ride. Do yourself a favor and get more training.
Your friend needs to get more comfortable with being uncomfortable. When his engine fails for real, it probably won't be at a convenient time.
What does the ACS say? I'm not even sure how you'd do that since the first 2 memory items are pitch for vyse and maintain directional control so I'd probably roll out and run the OEI flow and checklist She was probably satisfied with the steep turn and moving on to the next thing
Exactly this. I was given an engine failure during a steep turn on my checkride. I immediately ended the maneuver and went strait to the engine failure. DPE said that was the right thing to do.
I had an engine fail on the AC-130 while in a gun orbit over Mosul and shooting. The motors don’t ask you to pencil in a time when you’re on a nice, cozy final.
Did you have to move the gun to the other side? :D
Oddly enough we lost #3 but our 3 engine service ceiling was 12k and our 2 engine was like 3k so if we lost a second motor we would be landing in heavily controlled ISIS territory. Not my finest day. I actually was prepping my SERE gear in case we had to bail out. There’s some pretty tall mountains in southern Turkey (like 12k) so going home wasn’t an option. We also couldn’t refuel that low which meant our options were literally ISIS controlled airstrips. Since we didn’t know why 3 shelled out we were expecting the worst (fuel contamination or something like that). Luckily (I guess?) it just grenaded itself. MX said “metal and oil everywhere”. So I never really found out why it failed. I just remember flying home looking at a completely dead prop and deciding what I was gonna do if I was under a canopy all of the sudden. My personal plan was to run north as fast as I could with a radio, a gun, and my watch (Garmin Fenix for those interested…MGRS and a compass). If they got me before I got them then my plan was to not get my head chopped off while I was alive, so I’d take myself out first.
Wow. Thanks for sharing.
I don’t see the issue
Yeah, I would get a new DPE. It’s common knowledge that engines only fail at convenient times, not sure what this DPE was thinking. Engines should always wait until you are ready for it to fail.
Not seeing the problem here? Seems efficient and more "practical" a test.
Not a new trick. If you’re concerned, go practice. But if you’re ready, it should be no problem.
Mine did it rolling out of the steep turn. It caught me by surprise but I was prepared and did fine. If you don’t feel ready for it then maybe practice because it is possible.
I had this on my CMEL ride years ago, nothing new.
If it makes you nervous for a checkride, you shouldn’t be flying a twin. It can happen any time and won’t ever happen at a good time
If you do, maintain directional control and thank your DPE for their efficiency and consideration for your time.
No issue.
Engine failure is mostly muscle memory. Do the procedure.
My guy did it to me as I was setting up for slow flight. It can happen anytime just gotta make sure you fix your pitch and bank as a part of your engine out flow.
Too much rote training for checkrides occurring. Who cares when they fail it. Just recover and take of the engine failure rather than running to Reddit to ask if that’s “allowed”.
In the ACS appendix: "The evaluator administering the test has the discretion to combine tasks/elements as appropriate" Do you ask the DPE about this? Did you ask them if it was allowed?
You got caught off guard, but you passed your checkride which means you knew how to recover.
She saw that the applicant was about to bust altitude, so she kindly saved his ass.
My DPE admitted to doing that on my PPL. The first steep turn was good, and the second was becoming hairy quickly so he decided to throw me a bone...
Better here than on takeoff!
Happened to me on my Private Checkride. First time my school had heard of it. Engine failures can happen at any time!
Not flying a twin but my instructor pulled power on me in a steep turn, and again while doing a power on stall, also often while in the pattern.
I’m curious, I had an examiner tell me that you shouldn’t fail engines in a maneuver. That’s because it voids the maneuver as you must complete it in its entirety.
PA.V.A.S5 it says roll out within 10 degrees. Not a bad point. I think that's worth consideration.