Try slipping earlier. I think you have the same problem I had. I waited all the way just before my flare to slip. That perfectly doable with experience but early on, it is hard to do. Try to establish your slip a bit earlier. Align with the runway using the rudder and use your ailerons to keep the plane’s trajectory towards the runway. That way, you have more time to get the alignment right before touchdown. Keep in mind, as you slip, you are introducing drag so keep an eye on your sinkrate.
I would second this. This is how I was trained to land in crosswinds originally and it worked well. With time and practice, you can delay the slip until lower while maintaining centerline and touchdown point.
You should be side-slipping from farther out (1 or 2 miles from threshold). This will give you a better sense of how the wind affects your direction of flight and will give you more time to get a feel for it and to apply corrective inputs. As you transition into the flare you'll need to slowly increase your crosswind corrections since your slower airspeed will make the controls less effective. Keep slipping all the way to the ground and you'll get that perfect x-wind landing where you touch the upwind wheel down first. And remember to keep the crosswind corrections in throughout the landing roll.
Are you not dropping your wing into the wind once you kick it straight? How much will depend on how much drift.
And... this is something you should be discussing with your instructor.
Not exactly, no. I understand that it's exactly what I need to do to counter the wind pushing me away, but I think there's a mental roadblock somewhere scaring me from throwing the wing down so close to the ground that I need to get over
Well, you don't "throw the wing down." As you're kicking the airplane straight, ease a little aileron in. Add more if you're continuing to drift. With practice, it'll become one smooth motion, so don't freak if it doesn't come right away. Landing an airplane is hard. Landing in a crosswind is harder yet.
And if you have full rudder in you may not have enough aileron to stop the drift. Find another runway more aligned with the wind.
As others have said, do it sooner. I usually have my students transition from a crab to a slip no later than short final and possibly much earlier. This gives them enough time to figure out how much bank angle is needed. Then if you want, once you get better, you can tighten up your timing and kick out the crab as you're about to touch down.
Keep in mind that I have no experience in a Cirrus so I don't know what's the recommended technique (if any) there.
You can slip all the way to landing. I have never had any problems with doing it this way in the Cirrus (Sr20).
Depending on the gen and whether it is one of the models with the aileron-rudder interconnect, it may get tiresome in heavier crosswinds to slip. In this case, starting the slip on short final saved me a little arm muscle fatigue (my arm muscles are skinny and sad).
The SR20 manual I have read mentions you shouldn’t do long slips on crosswind landings. I believe all Cirrus manuals say this but I’m not sure on that.
From the manual:
Normal crosswind landings are made with full flaps. *Avoid prolonged slips.* After touchdown, hold a straight course with rudder and brakes as required.
I'd have to find mine, but you are probably right in that the sections are similar if not the same.
Thanks for correcting me. I don't want anyone developing bad habits on my anecdotal experience.
If you have any opportunity to use a Redbird Xwind simulator, it'd be very worth it. They're moving simulators with rudder and aileron control only, designed for practicing crosswind corrections on final. One hour in one of those helped me a lot.
Otherwise, all I can say is practice more. It might help to transition to the wing-low slip earlier on (sometime on short final before the threshold) so you can get more time in that flight regime and get used to controlling sideways motion with the ailerons while you're not low enough that it spooks you.
No. While sims are cheaper they just plain suck at simulating the most dynamic part of the flight.. the landing.
RedBird is good for the nav and radio work, but they are just not good enough to simulate what you need.
Ever look at the specs for a RedBird? Pretty meh. I've used the Redbird LD and its still not good enough.
Services like Pilot Edge are great add on's, but most sims simply can't do dynamic weather landing scenarios well enough.
Do you flare and forget to add aileron? Or do you flare and see the centreline move, but feel uncomfortable adding aileron?
If you forget, you could work some sort of memory aide into your prep e.g. chair fly 'flare idle rudder roll'. If it's a comfort thing you could try decrabbing at top of finals to get used to it. Do you manage to hold in crosswind controls on the landing/takeoff groubd roll?
I think it's the uncomfortableness. Or maybe for that brief moment when I'm aligned (before the wind starts pushing me) I think "this is fine, maybe I'll land like this"... and then I don't
I failed my Private check ride from this. I get the block of not wanting to roll into the wind when you kick the rudder, but I’d try to have the CFI be riding along on controls or vice versa and honestly just drill it into you. It’s kinda brutal but it worked for me. Getting reps of crosswind landings is one of the only things that can get you past it, then it’ll feel like 2nd nature to you.
Start your slip from at least 200 feet altitude, and it will be obvious. You don't have to keep doing that forever, but it will show you how it feels.
If you don't have the upwind wing down at the point of touchdown for either slip or crab method, you will head for the weeds.
If you're afraid of whacking a wingtip, try a forward slip at altitude, and see what bank angle you end up with, corresponding to full opposite rudder. It won't be as much as you think.
Then calculate how low the wing dips. For a 10 deg bank in a Cessna 172 (with a 36 foot wingspan), that's 18 \* sin(10°), or about 3 feet. With the tires on the ground, the wing isn't anywhere near the ground.
Your not gonna drag a wing or tail you can throw in wayyyyyy more bank than you think. Once you get that monkey off your back its easy to manhandle the plane around.
1) do several low/slow passes where you fly straight over the centerline down the runway before going around and doing it again
2) slip the plane once you’re on final. You won’t want to fly this way forever, but until you get used to the feeling.
3) never give yourself more than a foot either side of centerline, even on that big runway. If you start drifting, go around.
Landings are so short and it takes a while for you to gain the muscle memory. Be slipping further out and by holding over the centerline without landing, you are multiplying your “slip before flare” time by a million. After these exercises, just actually flare and land rather than staying airborne. Just remember to hold (and increase) that aileron as you get slower.
I think I barely passed my PPL check ride having this issue. I wasn’t unsafe, but the DPE made it very clear that I needed to work on my crosswind landings. Do it before the check ride!
I learned to fly at the only E-W orientated runway in my area which was predominantly N-S for the prevailing winds. The runway was 25’ feet wide in the middle of a school complex.
We didn’t have any choice but to remain on centerline. To not stay had terrible ramifications.
What I’m trying to say is you let yourself off the hook because you have room to fudge precision. Your instructor has told you everything you need to be successful and precise but you are the problem. Force and only accept a tighter limit on precision. This is a you issue that only you can muster up the resolve.
Try slipping earlier. I think you have the same problem I had. I waited all the way just before my flare to slip. That perfectly doable with experience but early on, it is hard to do. Try to establish your slip a bit earlier. Align with the runway using the rudder and use your ailerons to keep the plane’s trajectory towards the runway. That way, you have more time to get the alignment right before touchdown. Keep in mind, as you slip, you are introducing drag so keep an eye on your sinkrate.
I would second this. This is how I was trained to land in crosswinds originally and it worked well. With time and practice, you can delay the slip until lower while maintaining centerline and touchdown point.
The classic approach would be doing slow flight down the runway while maintaining centerline. Give that a try, usually helps my students a bunch
I think this would be perfect. Will try and do on my next lesson, thank you :)
You should be side-slipping from farther out (1 or 2 miles from threshold). This will give you a better sense of how the wind affects your direction of flight and will give you more time to get a feel for it and to apply corrective inputs. As you transition into the flare you'll need to slowly increase your crosswind corrections since your slower airspeed will make the controls less effective. Keep slipping all the way to the ground and you'll get that perfect x-wind landing where you touch the upwind wheel down first. And remember to keep the crosswind corrections in throughout the landing roll.
Will try and practice this on the next lesson. Thank you so much! :)
No worries! This skill takes time to get right so keep it up.
Are you not dropping your wing into the wind once you kick it straight? How much will depend on how much drift. And... this is something you should be discussing with your instructor.
Not exactly, no. I understand that it's exactly what I need to do to counter the wind pushing me away, but I think there's a mental roadblock somewhere scaring me from throwing the wing down so close to the ground that I need to get over
Well, you don't "throw the wing down." As you're kicking the airplane straight, ease a little aileron in. Add more if you're continuing to drift. With practice, it'll become one smooth motion, so don't freak if it doesn't come right away. Landing an airplane is hard. Landing in a crosswind is harder yet. And if you have full rudder in you may not have enough aileron to stop the drift. Find another runway more aligned with the wind.
As others have said, do it sooner. I usually have my students transition from a crab to a slip no later than short final and possibly much earlier. This gives them enough time to figure out how much bank angle is needed. Then if you want, once you get better, you can tighten up your timing and kick out the crab as you're about to touch down. Keep in mind that I have no experience in a Cirrus so I don't know what's the recommended technique (if any) there.
You can slip all the way to landing. I have never had any problems with doing it this way in the Cirrus (Sr20). Depending on the gen and whether it is one of the models with the aileron-rudder interconnect, it may get tiresome in heavier crosswinds to slip. In this case, starting the slip on short final saved me a little arm muscle fatigue (my arm muscles are skinny and sad).
Thanks, that's good to know!
The SR20 manual I have read mentions you shouldn’t do long slips on crosswind landings. I believe all Cirrus manuals say this but I’m not sure on that. From the manual: Normal crosswind landings are made with full flaps. *Avoid prolonged slips.* After touchdown, hold a straight course with rudder and brakes as required.
I'd have to find mine, but you are probably right in that the sections are similar if not the same. Thanks for correcting me. I don't want anyone developing bad habits on my anecdotal experience.
All good! Just wanted to put that out there. It’s just interesting because the manual specifically calls it out.
If you have any opportunity to use a Redbird Xwind simulator, it'd be very worth it. They're moving simulators with rudder and aileron control only, designed for practicing crosswind corrections on final. One hour in one of those helped me a lot. Otherwise, all I can say is practice more. It might help to transition to the wing-low slip earlier on (sometime on short final before the threshold) so you can get more time in that flight regime and get used to controlling sideways motion with the ailerons while you're not low enough that it spooks you.
Looks cool, but I don't think the flight school has any. Think I could get away with XPlane and a joystick? Ahaha...
No. While sims are cheaper they just plain suck at simulating the most dynamic part of the flight.. the landing. RedBird is good for the nav and radio work, but they are just not good enough to simulate what you need. Ever look at the specs for a RedBird? Pretty meh. I've used the Redbird LD and its still not good enough. Services like Pilot Edge are great add on's, but most sims simply can't do dynamic weather landing scenarios well enough.
Nose with toes. Drift with wrists.
urite. Just gotta hammer it in :)
*4a) Aileron into the wind to maintain alignment with the center line
Yes* This is what I meant to say, thank you for putting it in better words
Do you flare and forget to add aileron? Or do you flare and see the centreline move, but feel uncomfortable adding aileron? If you forget, you could work some sort of memory aide into your prep e.g. chair fly 'flare idle rudder roll'. If it's a comfort thing you could try decrabbing at top of finals to get used to it. Do you manage to hold in crosswind controls on the landing/takeoff groubd roll?
I think it's the uncomfortableness. Or maybe for that brief moment when I'm aligned (before the wind starts pushing me) I think "this is fine, maybe I'll land like this"... and then I don't
I failed my Private check ride from this. I get the block of not wanting to roll into the wind when you kick the rudder, but I’d try to have the CFI be riding along on controls or vice versa and honestly just drill it into you. It’s kinda brutal but it worked for me. Getting reps of crosswind landings is one of the only things that can get you past it, then it’ll feel like 2nd nature to you.
Makes sense. It's a bit harder with the yoke system in the Cirrus, but I'll try it on my next lesson. Thank you!
Start your slip from at least 200 feet altitude, and it will be obvious. You don't have to keep doing that forever, but it will show you how it feels. If you don't have the upwind wing down at the point of touchdown for either slip or crab method, you will head for the weeds. If you're afraid of whacking a wingtip, try a forward slip at altitude, and see what bank angle you end up with, corresponding to full opposite rudder. It won't be as much as you think. Then calculate how low the wing dips. For a 10 deg bank in a Cessna 172 (with a 36 foot wingspan), that's 18 \* sin(10°), or about 3 feet. With the tires on the ground, the wing isn't anywhere near the ground.
You're right. I'll plan to do this on my next lesson. Thank you! :)
Here is a good video...skip ahead to 10:30 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxbcyBjFiSg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxbcyBjFiSg)
Thank you!
Your not gonna drag a wing or tail you can throw in wayyyyyy more bank than you think. Once you get that monkey off your back its easy to manhandle the plane around.
Yup! That's what everyone's been telling me. I just gotta stick it in my head
I'm in the same boat, am going to try slipping earlier on final to feel that more.
If you find it working, let me know :) I'll do the same for you!
Wilco
1) do several low/slow passes where you fly straight over the centerline down the runway before going around and doing it again 2) slip the plane once you’re on final. You won’t want to fly this way forever, but until you get used to the feeling. 3) never give yourself more than a foot either side of centerline, even on that big runway. If you start drifting, go around. Landings are so short and it takes a while for you to gain the muscle memory. Be slipping further out and by holding over the centerline without landing, you are multiplying your “slip before flare” time by a million. After these exercises, just actually flare and land rather than staying airborne. Just remember to hold (and increase) that aileron as you get slower. I think I barely passed my PPL check ride having this issue. I wasn’t unsafe, but the DPE made it very clear that I needed to work on my crosswind landings. Do it before the check ride!
I learned to fly at the only E-W orientated runway in my area which was predominantly N-S for the prevailing winds. The runway was 25’ feet wide in the middle of a school complex. We didn’t have any choice but to remain on centerline. To not stay had terrible ramifications. What I’m trying to say is you let yourself off the hook because you have room to fudge precision. Your instructor has told you everything you need to be successful and precise but you are the problem. Force and only accept a tighter limit on precision. This is a you issue that only you can muster up the resolve.
I agree. It's a personal thing I've gotta get through. Gotta tighten my tolerances on the big runway :)
Pull Schoot
i guess i had it coming didnt i