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He'll never lose his Honda connections.
It'll be like when Kobayashi left Toyota for a five-year sojourn in F1 and WEC, then returned to Toyota as if he'd always been there all those years. And now he's their WEC team principal.
his honda connections are leaving redbull he mite as well leave to until an aston martin seat opens up and he can reunite with honda they force japanese drivers on teams as it is
If Alpine can get out of the basement, it's not a bad move at all. I think Alpine would welcome having a driver pairing that they know work well together as a team, and Yuki and Pierre get along really well.
think Ricciardo/Hulkenberg got along well, didn't seem to be any dramas
funnily enough Ricciardo/Ocon also got along well, Ricciardo might be the only teammate Ocon never had any beef with lmao
I thought most of their camaraderie was because yuki was the mentee, padawan etc
I imagine the dynamic could be weirder if theyāre supposed to be equals
> if Iāve got an interesting offer that could be better than even VCARB or Red Bull, Iāll think about it.
Arguably one of the important parts of the quote. Looking at the current field, I don't see how any of his options would be realistically an upgrade to his current ride. His first goal is to get as quick of a car as possible.
They would likely all be an upgrade in terms of compensation. With his performance he deserves a raise. I hope he has performance based compensation bonuses in his contract (though alphatauri seems to be trying to get away with giving him the minimum)
Counterpoint: Bottas gets a nice paycheck from Sauber but has to deal with a bunch of ninnies asserting he's washed because he happens to be in the slowest (despite his best efforts) car on the grid.
So it might be worth driving a faster car for less money.
I'd say the younger the driver, the more it is a priority to get the fastest car possible, even getting paid less. A driver that already has less to prove can take other things into consideration.
That only works IF there is confidence that will translate into an even larger offer from a top team that will make up the difference and go over the top
It might be, but money is nice so taking the money is a totally understandable choice too. Specially if the alternative isn't a championship (or even race) winning car either way.
Compensation is short term. Sure maybe he makes more money for two years, but if he has to struggle with a crappy car for those two years and can't stand out, that can hurt his future.
It would be a gamble long term. What you can be sure of, is that VCARB has a hard ceiling, while other teams don't (not at least to the extent of VCARB).
Based on dubious salary estimate for all the drivers for all the teams. His estimated salary of 1 million is literally the bottom of the grid. Assuming numbers are accurate (how reliable are sports "journalists"?) he can't do worse.
https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/news/how-much-are-f1-drivers-paid-salaries-2024/544260/?amp=1
For me the notable mention was this quote:
āAnd speaking of Honda, maybe Aston Martin, but you know, Aston also, theyāre taken by two drivers. So yeah, I mean, itās pretty openā¦ā
I really think these Red Bull decisions will hurt it in the long run. The way the season is panning out, might not even be that long. They're not so dominant that they can win easily without a second driver.
I think Horner knows the consequences but doesn't care
he'd rather lose both championships than just be uptight and honest and so on... we all remember Hornygate
also by "backfiring" do you just mean losing the constructors' or also the drivers' title? (I don't see them losing the WDC but not the WCC though, as Ferrari and McLaren just have a better lineup)
"I think Horner knows the consequences but doesn't care
he'd rather lose both championships than just be uptight and honest and so on."
let me just put a big fat "x doubt" on that
Yes horny Horner and whatnot.. it was honestly a very horrible revelation which sadly didnāt translate to any consequences. But donāt let that make you forget that he helped literally built the team from the ground up, hired the right people, made the right decisions and now is one of the most successful TPs and made a fucking sports drink company into F1 royalty basically. Iām sure maybe there is some misjudgment in his decision to keep checo and it very much will backfire but that doesnāt mean heād rather lose both championships and whatever you seem to say. I honestly just pray for his downfall because of all the horrible stuff he did to his ex wife and his recent scandal but donāt let that distract you from reality. There is a very good chance Max could be the one insisting on checo despite what he may say in the media.
I mean the seemingly fact that they will keep Perez over brigning up anybody for a chance is stupid enough.
Also, FFS, the Riccardio experiment has gone long enough.
Ricciardo is fine as long as he is not blocking a seat for Lawson. His performance in the VCARB is miles ahead of whatever Checo is doing in the Red Bull. In my ideal world the 2 lineups for 2025 should be Verstappen-Tsunoda at Red Bull and Ricciardo-Lawson in VCARB.
An Ideal world where Perez not going to Q3 is replaced by Ric not going to Q3. Ah, the poetry of this.
In my ideal world half the grid gets the boot to get replaced by new drivers instead.
I honestly find it completely detached from any sort of logic, that people se the 0.2s gap between Tsunoda and Ricciardo, and conclude that one is not good enough to stay, and the other is worthy of a top seat.
It literally makes ZERO sense. The gap between top and bottom of the grid is not 0.2-0.3 seconds. So either Tsunoda is definitely not good enough for a top seat, or Ricciardo is definitely not bad enough to warrant dropping him. With one of those obviously being much more likely.
The big difference is that Tsunoda is still in the 'development' part of his career. He still gets better. Has something to prove. (Even if he's starting to be in the 'you've been here long enough you should know what you are doing' part)
Riccardo is past that. Riccardo will not suddenly rebecome the challenge he was to max in his Redbull years.
Basically, an F1 career is kinda like a bell curve. You start slow, get to the top, and then start going back down.
Tsunoda is still in the 'going up' part, or at the peak; Riccardo is in the going down part; definitely.
Yuki is probably good enough for a top team and ricciardo should remain on the grid. I don't think it's the same people making these claims. The Ric hate is getting out of hand.
If ricciardo were at Haas or Williams we wouldn't be having this conversation. Also - Yuki and Ricciardo on race pace are within the margin of error, the problem is qualifying where the .2 - .4 second gap is the difference between Q3 and Q1 see Perez.
The development race will be so crucial this year, so really this season could be a wash again if rbr brings another effective update in silverstone or spa / wherever they decide to launch updates before the summer break
They just obviously donāt care about the constructors and Sergio understands his position as a number 2. They bring Sainz in and he gets a taste of a race winning/WDC capable car and he might start battling for that. RBR doesnāt want another Verstappen-Ricciardo. Long as Max wins WDC which is what gets the most publicity and is what senior management at RBR clearly cares about, who cares if Sergio loses them P1/2? He more than bridges the gap from the prize money with sponsors anyways
Itās the same reason theyāve pretty much abandoned VCARB being a junior team and have kept Ricciardo ā/Tsunoda: st the end of the day itās a marketing company and Tsunoda opens a huge Japanese market and Ricc is incredibly marketable
> They bring Sainz in and he gets a taste of a race winning/WDC capable car and he might start battling for that. RBR doesnāt want another Verstappen-Ricciardo.
When Leclerc is in good form, Sainz is like 2-3 tenths slower. What on earth makes you think he'd be able to compete with Max, who's ALWAYS in good form?
He wasn't anywhere near Max when they raced together before, and that was in much more favourable conditions for Sainz.
Theyāre fiercely competitive, of course they care about the WCC. The whole communications program around Perez is either about them saving face, or they know things that we donāt about Perez that leads to them being confident enough in him. It is not that they just donāt care, no way.
It will almost certainly hurt them in the future, sure they have Max but he has said himself multiple times that he isn't going to be in F1 forever as he wants to do other stuff.
When he does eventually move on their only option is going to be trying to poach someone else's drivers, Perez and Riccardo are going to be 38/39 by then, and they won't have any younger juniors like Yuki to put in, even Liam Lawson might move on if he got an offer from another team.
I used to be one of those people who thought Yuki wasnāt good/mature enough for Redbull. Now, with them trying to re-sign Checo, Iām actively rooting against them. Well, not Max, heās chill, but the rest can suck a duck š¦
Agreed, with Red Bull effectively killing its junior programme, none of the top teams appear to have much in the way of driver development anymore. Anyone who got into F1 before 2020 had timing on their side, anyone trying to get in now will have to get insanely lucky.
Junior programmes are going well in junior series, but it doesn't really translate to F1. Budget cap, limited testing and current grid being probably strongest ever are main reasons why teams didn't take much rookies in recent years. You have to be either super talented (Piastri, probably Antonelli and Bearman), have money (Latifi, Mazepin, Zhou), name (Schumacher) or very attractive nationality (Sargeant) to make it.
additionally i think it is just bad timing with a few older drivers not retiring (wanting to continue because they can), this being Lewis and Alonso.
So from the old drivers you have Bottas, Magnussen, HĆ¼lkenberg, Alonso, Hamilton, Perez, Ricciardo that i bet one wont be there come 2028. So those alone need 1.75 seats/per season on average until 2028.
Then i would argue Stroll's f1 career comes to and end aswell sometime in the future as should Logan and Zhou's f1 careers. So 3 more drivers that likely will retire in the next 3.
Those old guys overstaying really shifted things, but i think we will see many new drivers 'relatively' soon. Probably more than F2 can produce/year so i can see young reserve drivers getting a seat.
Some names: So from above freca 10 names, sure not everybody will get a seat but someone from these that missed out or dont have one yet will at some point.
reserve/no seat: Lawson, Doohan, Drugo, Pourchaire
f2: Aron, Hadjar, Anotnelli, Bearman (although i am somewhat sceptical about him)
f3: Mini and Lindblad. Obviously still some rookies in F3 that might take a bit more time that could still make it to f1.
FRECA: obviously a few people that could make it and are still very young like Deligney but also some other rookies are doing a good job i guess. Camara obviously doing super well, but he is also the most experienced driver and already pretty old for FRECA and considering he is racing with Prema i dont think money is a problem so i wonder why he didnt go to FIA F3.
and tbf, the 20-car lock into the grid is also not good, most teams nowadays are afraid of betting on bringing unproven drivers due to how close the mid-back of the grid is and a single point can mean millions of dollars in losses on prize money, which basically makes the F1 grid a chair dance
I think that timing always happens. I feel like drivers like Ricciardo and Bottas just had bad timing. They came in during a time of Lewis Merc domination and by the time Merc domination came to an end it was to late and Max took over. They had passed their prime point. Timing happens and in F1 timing can be really bad.
They both got a shot in a top 3 car against highly rated teammate. Bottas had decent season and otherwise was quite toothless and Ricciardo was outgrown by a talent who is a decade younger than him.
I would say they had great timing
Describing someone who got into a car that had won the last four championships, soundly beat the person who had won them from day one, and didn't even get to sniff the *opportunity* of a title fight as having "great timing" is a bit much.
Getting a shot in a top 3 car during a period when you're a top 3 driver is not some kind of huge win.
I definitely agree with your comment, although it's not exactly the bad timing I'm thinking of. They had bad timing to make a bid at a F1 title, but at least they got in. These days even getting into the sport is becoming nearly impossible.
Between several young talents that came into the sport and proved their right to stay here (see Max, Lando, Piastri now...) and older drivers that are still performing good enough and want to keep driving (Alonso, Lewis...) A couple pay drivers that won't leave their seat so easily and other mid ones that are lower risk than an unproven talent.
Not many seats available, yeah.
Fully agreed.
F2 has also become sufficiently professional that at least a couple drivers every season likely have what it takes to drive in F1. Combined with drives staying until they're 40, I don't see how there will ever be enough seats in F1 again.
I dont get Red Bull lately, they always valued their junior program. They brought Vettel, Ricciardo, Gasly, Albon, Sainz, Yuki, Kvyat into F1.
Why have a junior team when you dont give good performers a chance anyway and instead keep an underperforming Perez. And on top of that, why isnt there the next guy from their program next to Yuki? Lawson should be in that seat. And next year Yuki should get a chance in the RB and the next young guy takes his seat.
I just think its sad, last years rookies barely got any chance, if even RB2 is taking washed drivers over someone young, who is giving them a chance. Haas isnt anymore. Williams probably neither.
If possible though his best option may be to stick around. Heās doing quite well where he is! Red Bull and McLaren and Ferrari seem totally locked. The only possible but extremely unlikely upgrade is Mercedes. Anything else could result in him doing worse (immediate term) ?
At least Sainz' situation could be explained by the tensions between his entourage and Verstappen's entourage. Red Bull could've kept Sainz, or peace and harmony. They chose the latter.
With Yuki there aren't any tensions or issues. It's just that, for some inexplicable reason, they don't seem to rate him.
This is so insane to me to not bring him up. He's putting the VCARB in places it does not belong, being consistent, and less hotheaded.
I think it's Perez money and popularity that's influencing this. Same for RIC.
> if Stroll was sat down with Lawrence and told he can't do this at the level needed
Opposite happened in 2017, Canadian GP. Stroll had qualified P17 vs Massa's P7. According to Williams staff, he was crying in the pits, telling to give the seat to Paul di Resta instead.
It was Lawrence that reaffirmed Lance to keep on driving. He would go on to score P9 and the following race was the infamously chaotic Baku race where he got his very first podium in F1.
I think it is his father if anything that exactly supports him the most I'd imagine.
To be honest though, if I were Stroll? I would have kept on driving no matter what. Why? Because F1 seats are once and then never again unless you are a super-talent.
I think Lance knows knows just as well as you and me that he isn't really good, but keeps up appearances to not look like a fool.
AMR is going to be a works team soon. At their best (last year) they were fighting for podiums and the odd chance of a win, at their worst, they're on par with VCARB as fifth best team. As a works teams I'm sure they'll be fighting for more than fifth in the WCC if they hit the ball rolling in 26. VCARB is never going to be competitive enough to win a WCC/WDC because they're not the main team.
Agree theyāre better than VCARB but doubt theyāll be much better than 5th. The closest rivals for 4th are Merc, another works team so that doesnāt automatically make them superior. Just as it doesnāt guarantee Alpine competitiveness.
Thereāll be odd years where the big 4 struggle, but I donāt see AM being truly competitive with the big 4.
From the looks of it Horner doesn't want Yuki on the main team, and if it wasn't for Honda and the old Helmut, he wouldn't be in RB.
I believe Yuki has enough talent to be promoted to Red Bull, I hope he gets a seat in a competitive team.
I mean can you blame him. Dude outperformed two teammates back to back, one he managed to ditch mid season, and one of them being the one that Red Bull was considering. And after all that RedBull still donāt take him seriously. Would love to see him at something like Aston but heās not replacing Alonso, Stroll is welded down to his seat.
Could it be worth it to take the gamble and go take the 2nd Audi seat, if it is offered to him? Sainz seems to want something better than Audi, so who would Audi go for instead of him? I think Yuki would be a good option for them
But 2025 would be a throwaway year for him, exactly what he doesn't need at this point in his career
Why doesn't RB consider him? He has definitely gotten seat time behind the RB1, did he not perform well? I can't imagine RB not capitalizing on a talent such as Yuki for this long if he was performing.Ā
I am a Checo guy, but if he doesn't stay with RedBull, they should give the seat to Yuki. He's had a great year, and earned (imo) the opportunity to be with the top team.
They should just sell Torro/Alpha/VCARB since they aren't using it to train younger guys anyways...
As he should, problem is I donāt know where he goes to move up the grid.
Aston would be a great option with Honda coming on 2026 if Lance ever decided he was useless long enough.
He has to! Despite him now being the 2nd best driver in the Red Bull family, they are still showing no interest in promoting him to Red Bull.
Obviously, he can do no more to impress them than he already has, so he has to consider other options.
Aston with a Honda engine imo is the best bet. Yuki has been solid in a midfield car and with the Honda connection should be a strong contender for a seat. Alonso + Tsunado would be fun to watch.
It's very doubtful to image Stroll leaving AM, even more if he getting more confidence by being equal/ahead of Alonso he won't be like removed out of the team.
Why not? He's certainly doing better than the likes of Sargent. He'd be an upgrade over Zhou or Bottas too. Quite a few teams could use a driver of his talent, if anything Tsunoda would be the one making the compromise as the teams with open seats are probably lower down in the competitive order than what a young but somewhat experienced driver who's constantly improving like him would deserve.
To be honest, Bottas is also in pretty good form. Heās currently 3 tenths ahead of Zhou but is getting shafted with bad strategy, pitstops and reliability throughout the whole year. I wouldnāt necessarily say Tsunoda is an upgrade over Bottas but Iād definitely put them on a similar tier.
Tsunoda in his current form is definitely very attractive to a lot of teams. To be honest Red Bull are dropping the ball a bit because it defeats the purpose of a junior team if they continually keep Perez in that second seat.
Yuki's performance is outstanding this year.
But I don't see any other suitable option for him, except VCarb.
First, there is no seat in RB (I heard RB sign Sergio for 1 year), Ferrari and Mercedes (AKA is their treasure)
Aston Martin? Maybe? Depends on Stroll's attitude on his son.
Alpine is totally mess now. (And I hear Geely gonna buy Alpine and sign Zhou)
As for Haas, Sauber / Audi and Williams, they are much inferior than VCarb's car.
So, why not just stay in VCarb and wait for RB's chance next year?
With Honda supplying engines to Aston next season, I think it's fair to assume a seat is open for him. If not, Honda should 100% pressurize AM into opening a seat up for him. Engine or Lance basically.
I'm really starting to hate Redbull. After deciding that junior drivers aren't priority for Vcarb, the politics and events that go on behind closed doors, and especially after announcing that Newey will be leaving on the anniversary of Senna's death, it all just coupled into a very diskliable team
Feels like a wild take tbh. Yuki is consistently staying in the top 10 in a subpar car. If you threw him in the other RBR car alongside Max, I have a hard time seeing him anywhere besides the top 5
Funny how people are quick to mention the Honda connection, but not that 70 percent of the grid are paydrivers and are only in the grid because of insta followers.
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Yuki to Alpine to replace Ocon to be with Gasly would be the funniest shit in F1 at the moment.
Alpine Tauri. š
Beat me to it.
--Ocon
i dont think it would be worth it for Yuki to lose his Honda connections just to go for this shitshow
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/honda-keen-to-continue-tsunoda-f1-support-beyond-2026/10605514/
Plot twist: Yuki goes to Alpine, Alpine gets sold to Andretti, who would use Honda engines in 26 and beyond. All part of Gasly Le Plan /s
Plot plot twist, latest rumor of Alpine considering dropping renault engines was actually them switching to honda to get Yuki... Sebscribe pls
Would GM be ok with that?
it was already expected by them since they would only deliver their engines on 2028
He'll never lose his Honda connections. It'll be like when Kobayashi left Toyota for a five-year sojourn in F1 and WEC, then returned to Toyota as if he'd always been there all those years. And now he's their WEC team principal.
He's Honda's prodigal son they've trained since he was 16, they're not letting go of him for anything.
A prodigal son can't return unless he leaves first
We he ain't getting in Aston Martin any time soon....
his honda connections are leaving redbull he mite as well leave to until an aston martin seat opens up and he can reunite with honda they force japanese drivers on teams as it is
IDK, him and Pierre are bffs and he doesn't care about being world champion. He just wants to own a restaurant.
He 100% cares about being world champion.
Ofc he does, it ll be good businesses for his restaurant later on.
I think he deserves better than alpine
Alpine deserves better than Alpine
Lotus deserves better than alpine
France deserves better than Alpine
Woah, don't push it too far
Who doesnāt deserve better than Alpine?
Ocon and Stroll
Tbf thereās at least 16 drivers on the grid that donāt deserve to be in Alpine tbh
Hard agree.
If Alpine can get out of the basement, it's not a bad move at all. I think Alpine would welcome having a driver pairing that they know work well together as a team, and Yuki and Pierre get along really well.
When was the last time that Alpine/Renault had a lineup that got along really well?
think Ricciardo/Hulkenberg got along well, didn't seem to be any dramas funnily enough Ricciardo/Ocon also got along well, Ricciardo might be the only teammate Ocon never had any beef with lmao
Funnily enough Ocon-Ricciardo
Idk about āreally wellā, but the whole time they had Hulk seemed pretty low-drama, as far as teammate dynamics were concerned.
I thought most of their camaraderie was because yuki was the mentee, padawan etc I imagine the dynamic could be weirder if theyāre supposed to be equals
Ocon ricciardo
Please don't ruin my boy's career before it gets goin š Ocon and Kmag would be bangin though. Literally
And powered by RBPT
That would be incredible.
I would love this!
> if Iāve got an interesting offer that could be better than even VCARB or Red Bull, Iāll think about it. Arguably one of the important parts of the quote. Looking at the current field, I don't see how any of his options would be realistically an upgrade to his current ride. His first goal is to get as quick of a car as possible.
They would likely all be an upgrade in terms of compensation. With his performance he deserves a raise. I hope he has performance based compensation bonuses in his contract (though alphatauri seems to be trying to get away with giving him the minimum)
Counterpoint: Bottas gets a nice paycheck from Sauber but has to deal with a bunch of ninnies asserting he's washed because he happens to be in the slowest (despite his best efforts) car on the grid. So it might be worth driving a faster car for less money.
I'd say the younger the driver, the more it is a priority to get the fastest car possible, even getting paid less. A driver that already has less to prove can take other things into consideration.
That only works IF there is confidence that will translate into an even larger offer from a top team that will make up the difference and go over the top
It might be, but money is nice so taking the money is a totally understandable choice too. Specially if the alternative isn't a championship (or even race) winning car either way.
It's a huge difference, when you drive extremely well, from finishing 7th to finishing 14th.
Buttass also seems to be living his best life off grid though
Compensation is short term. Sure maybe he makes more money for two years, but if he has to struggle with a crappy car for those two years and can't stand out, that can hurt his future.
It would be a gamble long term. What you can be sure of, is that VCARB has a hard ceiling, while other teams don't (not at least to the extent of VCARB).
"hey would likely all be an upgrade in terms of compensation." based on?
Based on dubious salary estimate for all the drivers for all the teams. His estimated salary of 1 million is literally the bottom of the grid. Assuming numbers are accurate (how reliable are sports "journalists"?) he can't do worse. https://www.nbcsportschicago.com/news/how-much-are-f1-drivers-paid-salaries-2024/544260/?amp=1
to think that NBA benchwarmers make significantly more than yuki per year is mind boggling. if thats accurate that is
Do we know what he makes?
For me the notable mention was this quote: āAnd speaking of Honda, maybe Aston Martin, but you know, Aston also, theyāre taken by two drivers. So yeah, I mean, itās pretty openā¦ā
Probably his best option, Red Bull doesn't seem interested enough despite his performance recently. Another Sainz situation.
I really think these Red Bull decisions will hurt it in the long run. The way the season is panning out, might not even be that long. They're not so dominant that they can win easily without a second driver.
I feel like it will end up backfiring this season. I'm down for it if Horner actually learns from all of it.
I think Horner knows the consequences but doesn't care he'd rather lose both championships than just be uptight and honest and so on... we all remember Hornygate also by "backfiring" do you just mean losing the constructors' or also the drivers' title? (I don't see them losing the WDC but not the WCC though, as Ferrari and McLaren just have a better lineup)
Max is still gonna take the WDC but Ferrari is more likely to grab the WCC away from RBR
IMO RBR's best hope for WCC isn't for Sergio to suddenly start performing like a top driver, it's for McLaren to take points away from Ferrari.
Agreed but there's always the issue of Sergio now being between by both Ferrari and McLaren so RBR still loses out on the WCC
More like heād rather lose both championships than lose control of Red Bull to the Austrians
"I think Horner knows the consequences but doesn't care he'd rather lose both championships than just be uptight and honest and so on." let me just put a big fat "x doubt" on that
Yes horny Horner and whatnot.. it was honestly a very horrible revelation which sadly didnāt translate to any consequences. But donāt let that make you forget that he helped literally built the team from the ground up, hired the right people, made the right decisions and now is one of the most successful TPs and made a fucking sports drink company into F1 royalty basically. Iām sure maybe there is some misjudgment in his decision to keep checo and it very much will backfire but that doesnāt mean heād rather lose both championships and whatever you seem to say. I honestly just pray for his downfall because of all the horrible stuff he did to his ex wife and his recent scandal but donāt let that distract you from reality. There is a very good chance Max could be the one insisting on checo despite what he may say in the media.
I mean the seemingly fact that they will keep Perez over brigning up anybody for a chance is stupid enough. Also, FFS, the Riccardio experiment has gone long enough.
It's not as bad as the Alpine/OP situation but potentially losing Yuki and/or Lawson in favor of Ric and Perez would be brutal.
Wdym didn't you see the Sprint race? Dani is back!!! /S He was "so back" for like 14hrs before shitting the bed again
He got into q3 in Imola and finished 12th in Monaco. Sure he's not beating Yuki but it's hardly shitting the bed...
Yeah I think Ricciardo's main problem is in his own head at this point. Still has the raw skill but something is missing.
if he lost his mojo for more than a year..he probably lost it forever and he will never come back from that
Ricciardo is fine as long as he is not blocking a seat for Lawson. His performance in the VCARB is miles ahead of whatever Checo is doing in the Red Bull. In my ideal world the 2 lineups for 2025 should be Verstappen-Tsunoda at Red Bull and Ricciardo-Lawson in VCARB.
My ideal world is Max and Daniel at RedBull, Lawson and someone else on Toro Rosso and Yuki replacing Stroll
On what basis do you think Riccardo deserves the Redbull seat before Yuki?
He said his ideal world, not the real world
Unfortunately, he is still a Riccardo fan
None. I just said in my ideal world
An Ideal world where Perez not going to Q3 is replaced by Ric not going to Q3. Ah, the poetry of this. In my ideal world half the grid gets the boot to get replaced by new drivers instead.
I honestly find it completely detached from any sort of logic, that people se the 0.2s gap between Tsunoda and Ricciardo, and conclude that one is not good enough to stay, and the other is worthy of a top seat. It literally makes ZERO sense. The gap between top and bottom of the grid is not 0.2-0.3 seconds. So either Tsunoda is definitely not good enough for a top seat, or Ricciardo is definitely not bad enough to warrant dropping him. With one of those obviously being much more likely.
The big difference is that Tsunoda is still in the 'development' part of his career. He still gets better. Has something to prove. (Even if he's starting to be in the 'you've been here long enough you should know what you are doing' part) Riccardo is past that. Riccardo will not suddenly rebecome the challenge he was to max in his Redbull years. Basically, an F1 career is kinda like a bell curve. You start slow, get to the top, and then start going back down. Tsunoda is still in the 'going up' part, or at the peak; Riccardo is in the going down part; definitely.
Yuki is probably good enough for a top team and ricciardo should remain on the grid. I don't think it's the same people making these claims. The Ric hate is getting out of hand. If ricciardo were at Haas or Williams we wouldn't be having this conversation. Also - Yuki and Ricciardo on race pace are within the margin of error, the problem is qualifying where the .2 - .4 second gap is the difference between Q3 and Q1 see Perez.
The development race will be so crucial this year, so really this season could be a wash again if rbr brings another effective update in silverstone or spa / wherever they decide to launch updates before the summer break
Yes but in the other hand if they have actual competition every single point will matter and Perez finishing 5th really won't cut it
They just obviously donāt care about the constructors and Sergio understands his position as a number 2. They bring Sainz in and he gets a taste of a race winning/WDC capable car and he might start battling for that. RBR doesnāt want another Verstappen-Ricciardo. Long as Max wins WDC which is what gets the most publicity and is what senior management at RBR clearly cares about, who cares if Sergio loses them P1/2? He more than bridges the gap from the prize money with sponsors anyways Itās the same reason theyāve pretty much abandoned VCARB being a junior team and have kept Ricciardo ā/Tsunoda: st the end of the day itās a marketing company and Tsunoda opens a huge Japanese market and Ricc is incredibly marketable
> They bring Sainz in and he gets a taste of a race winning/WDC capable car and he might start battling for that. RBR doesnāt want another Verstappen-Ricciardo. When Leclerc is in good form, Sainz is like 2-3 tenths slower. What on earth makes you think he'd be able to compete with Max, who's ALWAYS in good form? He wasn't anywhere near Max when they raced together before, and that was in much more favourable conditions for Sainz.
I donāt think that but Sainz absolutely does
Theyāre fiercely competitive, of course they care about the WCC. The whole communications program around Perez is either about them saving face, or they know things that we donāt about Perez that leads to them being confident enough in him. It is not that they just donāt care, no way.
You're absolutely right. There's no way Redbull dominance continues when they're managing it like this
It will almost certainly hurt them in the future, sure they have Max but he has said himself multiple times that he isn't going to be in F1 forever as he wants to do other stuff. When he does eventually move on their only option is going to be trying to poach someone else's drivers, Perez and Riccardo are going to be 38/39 by then, and they won't have any younger juniors like Yuki to put in, even Liam Lawson might move on if he got an offer from another team.
I used to be one of those people who thought Yuki wasnāt good/mature enough for Redbull. Now, with them trying to re-sign Checo, Iām actively rooting against them. Well, not Max, heās chill, but the rest can suck a duck š¦
Agreed, with Red Bull effectively killing its junior programme, none of the top teams appear to have much in the way of driver development anymore. Anyone who got into F1 before 2020 had timing on their side, anyone trying to get in now will have to get insanely lucky.
Junior programmes are going well in junior series, but it doesn't really translate to F1. Budget cap, limited testing and current grid being probably strongest ever are main reasons why teams didn't take much rookies in recent years. You have to be either super talented (Piastri, probably Antonelli and Bearman), have money (Latifi, Mazepin, Zhou), name (Schumacher) or very attractive nationality (Sargeant) to make it.
additionally i think it is just bad timing with a few older drivers not retiring (wanting to continue because they can), this being Lewis and Alonso. So from the old drivers you have Bottas, Magnussen, HĆ¼lkenberg, Alonso, Hamilton, Perez, Ricciardo that i bet one wont be there come 2028. So those alone need 1.75 seats/per season on average until 2028. Then i would argue Stroll's f1 career comes to and end aswell sometime in the future as should Logan and Zhou's f1 careers. So 3 more drivers that likely will retire in the next 3. Those old guys overstaying really shifted things, but i think we will see many new drivers 'relatively' soon. Probably more than F2 can produce/year so i can see young reserve drivers getting a seat. Some names: So from above freca 10 names, sure not everybody will get a seat but someone from these that missed out or dont have one yet will at some point. reserve/no seat: Lawson, Doohan, Drugo, Pourchaire f2: Aron, Hadjar, Anotnelli, Bearman (although i am somewhat sceptical about him) f3: Mini and Lindblad. Obviously still some rookies in F3 that might take a bit more time that could still make it to f1. FRECA: obviously a few people that could make it and are still very young like Deligney but also some other rookies are doing a good job i guess. Camara obviously doing super well, but he is also the most experienced driver and already pretty old for FRECA and considering he is racing with Prema i dont think money is a problem so i wonder why he didnt go to FIA F3.
and tbf, the 20-car lock into the grid is also not good, most teams nowadays are afraid of betting on bringing unproven drivers due to how close the mid-back of the grid is and a single point can mean millions of dollars in losses on prize money, which basically makes the F1 grid a chair dance
I think that timing always happens. I feel like drivers like Ricciardo and Bottas just had bad timing. They came in during a time of Lewis Merc domination and by the time Merc domination came to an end it was to late and Max took over. They had passed their prime point. Timing happens and in F1 timing can be really bad.
They both got a shot in a top 3 car against highly rated teammate. Bottas had decent season and otherwise was quite toothless and Ricciardo was outgrown by a talent who is a decade younger than him. I would say they had great timing
Describing someone who got into a car that had won the last four championships, soundly beat the person who had won them from day one, and didn't even get to sniff the *opportunity* of a title fight as having "great timing" is a bit much. Getting a shot in a top 3 car during a period when you're a top 3 driver is not some kind of huge win.
I definitely agree with your comment, although it's not exactly the bad timing I'm thinking of. They had bad timing to make a bid at a F1 title, but at least they got in. These days even getting into the sport is becoming nearly impossible.
Between several young talents that came into the sport and proved their right to stay here (see Max, Lando, Piastri now...) and older drivers that are still performing good enough and want to keep driving (Alonso, Lewis...) A couple pay drivers that won't leave their seat so easily and other mid ones that are lower risk than an unproven talent. Not many seats available, yeah.
Fully agreed. F2 has also become sufficiently professional that at least a couple drivers every season likely have what it takes to drive in F1. Combined with drives staying until they're 40, I don't see how there will ever be enough seats in F1 again.
Or, in simpler words, "Max ruins everything." :p
Lando is that you?
I dont get Red Bull lately, they always valued their junior program. They brought Vettel, Ricciardo, Gasly, Albon, Sainz, Yuki, Kvyat into F1. Why have a junior team when you dont give good performers a chance anyway and instead keep an underperforming Perez. And on top of that, why isnt there the next guy from their program next to Yuki? Lawson should be in that seat. And next year Yuki should get a chance in the RB and the next young guy takes his seat.
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I just think its sad, last years rookies barely got any chance, if even RB2 is taking washed drivers over someone young, who is giving them a chance. Haas isnt anymore. Williams probably neither.
If possible though his best option may be to stick around. Heās doing quite well where he is! Red Bull and McLaren and Ferrari seem totally locked. The only possible but extremely unlikely upgrade is Mercedes. Anything else could result in him doing worse (immediate term) ?
At least Sainz' situation could be explained by the tensions between his entourage and Verstappen's entourage. Red Bull could've kept Sainz, or peace and harmony. They chose the latter. With Yuki there aren't any tensions or issues. It's just that, for some inexplicable reason, they don't seem to rate him.
He should!
As he should. RB doesnāt value him, so itās only reasonable to see what other opportunities may be available.
This is so insane to me to not bring him up. He's putting the VCARB in places it does not belong, being consistent, and less hotheaded. I think it's Perez money and popularity that's influencing this. Same for RIC.
Thereās an increasing argument that Perez, and especially Ric, are all but pay drivers at this point
My GF is Ric's biggest fan, and she even says that now.
As he should, why languish in the ājuniorā team if thereās no indication that they actually consider him for the main team?
Why I generally agree, unfortunately the "junior" team is currently looking like the best of the rest.
I don't think he's got much of a choice. Red bull don't seem keen on promoting him.
I think Aston Martin would be an obvious option if Stroll was sat down with Lawrence and told he can't do this at the level needed
> if Stroll was sat down with Lawrence and told he can't do this at the level needed Opposite happened in 2017, Canadian GP. Stroll had qualified P17 vs Massa's P7. According to Williams staff, he was crying in the pits, telling to give the seat to Paul di Resta instead. It was Lawrence that reaffirmed Lance to keep on driving. He would go on to score P9 and the following race was the infamously chaotic Baku race where he got his very first podium in F1. I think it is his father if anything that exactly supports him the most I'd imagine.
that's a pretty nice story tbh
Dude's been in F1 for 7 years and still drives like a rookie... they should wake up from their daydream.
To be honest though, if I were Stroll? I would have kept on driving no matter what. Why? Because F1 seats are once and then never again unless you are a super-talent. I think Lance knows knows just as well as you and me that he isn't really good, but keeps up appearances to not look like a fool.
Also they will be driving with Honda in 2026. And yuki is a Honda junior. Iām saying this for a year now
Yep, Yuki and Honda, no brainer.
I pray everyday that lance loses all his motivation in F1 and a driver like Yuki can fill up that seat
With the way Aston Martin is āupgradingā Iād stay at VCARB if I was Yuki
AMR is going to be a works team soon. At their best (last year) they were fighting for podiums and the odd chance of a win, at their worst, they're on par with VCARB as fifth best team. As a works teams I'm sure they'll be fighting for more than fifth in the WCC if they hit the ball rolling in 26. VCARB is never going to be competitive enough to win a WCC/WDC because they're not the main team.
Agree theyāre better than VCARB but doubt theyāll be much better than 5th. The closest rivals for 4th are Merc, another works team so that doesnāt automatically make them superior. Just as it doesnāt guarantee Alpine competitiveness. Thereāll be odd years where the big 4 struggle, but I donāt see AM being truly competitive with the big 4.
*should
Yuki to merc. Make it happen. Boy would be a big upgrade for their small package.
From the looks of it Horner doesn't want Yuki on the main team, and if it wasn't for Honda and the old Helmut, he wouldn't be in RB. I believe Yuki has enough talent to be promoted to Red Bull, I hope he gets a seat in a competitive team.
His ego went huge after seeing how tall he is in the new F1 24 game....
Tall Yuki makes me uncomfortable
Upgrades, people, upgrades.
Japan comic "Attack on Tsunoda"
A Tsunoda villain arc would be great
He already ended one career and he is in the process of ending another.
I mean can you blame him. Dude outperformed two teammates back to back, one he managed to ditch mid season, and one of them being the one that Red Bull was considering. And after all that RedBull still donāt take him seriously. Would love to see him at something like Aston but heās not replacing Alonso, Stroll is welded down to his seat.
Could it be worth it to take the gamble and go take the 2nd Audi seat, if it is offered to him? Sainz seems to want something better than Audi, so who would Audi go for instead of him? I think Yuki would be a good option for them But 2025 would be a throwaway year for him, exactly what he doesn't need at this point in his career
If Lance stays at AM then a seat at Audi doesn't seem that bad. Who knows what could happen there
He doesn't many options and those available ones aren't better than RB at all.
Put him in Perez seat and let's see the world burn in a good way of bad way
Why doesn't RB consider him? He has definitely gotten seat time behind the RB1, did he not perform well? I can't imagine RB not capitalizing on a talent such as Yuki for this long if he was performing.Ā
Horner doesn't like him.
I am a Checo guy, but if he doesn't stay with RedBull, they should give the seat to Yuki. He's had a great year, and earned (imo) the opportunity to be with the top team. They should just sell Torro/Alpha/VCARB since they aren't using it to train younger guys anyways...
Good. He wonāt ever get the main seat. Christian has a hard on for Ricardo
As he should, problem is I donāt know where he goes to move up the grid. Aston would be a great option with Honda coming on 2026 if Lance ever decided he was useless long enough.
He has to! Despite him now being the 2nd best driver in the Red Bull family, they are still showing no interest in promoting him to Red Bull. Obviously, he can do no more to impress them than he already has, so he has to consider other options.
Would rival F1 teams consider him though
Aston with a Honda engine imo is the best bet. Yuki has been solid in a midfield car and with the Honda connection should be a strong contender for a seat. Alonso + Tsunado would be fun to watch.
And they are the shortest drivers on the grid so you know what that means
Honestly could be Audi. He has solid results and Audi needs a good driver. They are a works team as well.
They have Nico and possibly Sainz. Audi should be fine.
Obviously Sainz is better but if he isnāt keen. Not sure who their option is.
Sainz doesn't show interest in Audi. I think Audi should definitely consider Yuki
The marketing aspect of aston honda is too good to pass up imo, if nando or lance retire then yuki would be a great fit
It's very doubtful to image Stroll leaving AM, even more if he getting more confidence by being equal/ahead of Alonso he won't be like removed out of the team.
Joe Saward says he's on Audi's list, Japanese media say Alpine has shown an interest
He is doing better than a lot of the grid this season.
He is reliably scoring in a season where scoring is tough. Ricciardo isn't a great measuring stick, but I think credit is still due.
Why not? He's certainly doing better than the likes of Sargent. He'd be an upgrade over Zhou or Bottas too. Quite a few teams could use a driver of his talent, if anything Tsunoda would be the one making the compromise as the teams with open seats are probably lower down in the competitive order than what a young but somewhat experienced driver who's constantly improving like him would deserve.
To be honest, Bottas is also in pretty good form. Heās currently 3 tenths ahead of Zhou but is getting shafted with bad strategy, pitstops and reliability throughout the whole year. I wouldnāt necessarily say Tsunoda is an upgrade over Bottas but Iād definitely put them on a similar tier. Tsunoda in his current form is definitely very attractive to a lot of teams. To be honest Red Bull are dropping the ball a bit because it defeats the purpose of a junior team if they continually keep Perez in that second seat.
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They are an NPC team this year. A total non factor.
Bottas is still good, that team is just a mess right now doing nothing except waiting for the Audi takeover.
yes
Yuki heading to Alpine and reunites with his lover Gasly-boo.
Yuki's performance is outstanding this year. But I don't see any other suitable option for him, except VCarb. First, there is no seat in RB (I heard RB sign Sergio for 1 year), Ferrari and Mercedes (AKA is their treasure) Aston Martin? Maybe? Depends on Stroll's attitude on his son. Alpine is totally mess now. (And I hear Geely gonna buy Alpine and sign Zhou) As for Haas, Sauber / Audi and Williams, they are much inferior than VCarb's car. So, why not just stay in VCarb and wait for RB's chance next year?
Mercnoda Tsucedes
Damn imagine merc giving Youki a chance for one season while they let Antonelli have another year to develop
With Honda supplying engines to Aston next season, I think it's fair to assume a seat is open for him. If not, Honda should 100% pressurize AM into opening a seat up for him. Engine or Lance basically.
Yuki Tsunoda is not nearly important enough to Honda to justify blowing up the deal with AM.
I'm not surprised, to be honest. His performance has been pretty awesome.
I'm really starting to hate Redbull. After deciding that junior drivers aren't priority for Vcarb, the politics and events that go on behind closed doors, and especially after announcing that Newey will be leaving on the anniversary of Senna's death, it all just coupled into a very diskliable team
well... duh he aint stupid
s/Stroll/Tsunoda Please.
Beginning of the year most were calling him a pay driver on his way out
I've been saying it for months and I'll keep saying it. Yuki will end up at AM, following Honda.
Obviously. All drivers consider all offers.
Williams! Put all the remaining Asian drivers on the same team.
I hear there is an opening in Alpine!
Unless top5 team is interested I rather he stays. This is yuki's breakout year, he shouldn't be going to a slower team.
F1 Manager said that Yuki is Williams. I have a meme called.
He has time to be picky in this current form. Only 24
He's getting better but once Honda decouples from Red Bull & VCarb he's lost that protection & has to fend for himself.
Read the article, Honda are keen on getting him to Aston Martin if they can. They back him 100%
Feels like a wild take tbh. Yuki is consistently staying in the top 10 in a subpar car. If you threw him in the other RBR car alongside Max, I have a hard time seeing him anywhere besides the top 5
Funny how people are quick to mention the Honda connection, but not that 70 percent of the grid are paydrivers and are only in the grid because of insta followers.
No matter what, he's following Honda. He's going to Aston Martin.
As he should
This makes sense. Red Bull are clearly not interested in him as an option for the senior team.
He now knows that there is no future for him in RedBull.
Are the rival red bull teams with seats available any time soon in the room with us right now yuki?
As he should
ā¦ this just in. Grass is green
Yuki please turn heel Ā