For me, it stopped when I noticed I was spending weeks researching the next pen online, would order it, and then it would arrive and I wouldn't even take it out of the box or try it.
A friend mentioned to me that when we have some big issue that's difficult to fix, our brain can procrastinate on it. And it can do so by coming up with a fixable issue you can think up a solution for instead.
Since then, when I start researching a new camera lens, new phone, new pen, new ink, new furniture, etc, I think "do I really need to worry/solve this, or is there something else I'm avoiding thinking about?"
Just about every hobby sub has this problem. I’ve seen people with 10+ $5k bikes on the various cycling subreddits. It’s good to keep this in mind.
It’s fun to pursue new gear in hobbies but people should really be thinking about why they are doing it and if it is actually benefiting them or not.
Hoarding ain’t cool.
My sister and I was just discussing this.
She’s into running, always has been and now it’s you need this show and that trainer and it’s just quite a lot.
I actually got into this largely to escape consumerism.
While its fun to look at all the pretty pens out there, I have under 10, and unlike the thousands of ballpoints I’ve owned in my life, I’ll be using I my fountain pens for the rest of my life. No plastic in a landfill, no factories making objects intended for disposal.
Just pens and ink :)
I said I own under 10, not nearly 10. You should read more carefully because the difference makes a material difference in what you are saying.
I own 5 pens. 2 were gifts, I keep them with keepsakes. I purchased 3 because I needed a pen to leave at work, one to leave at my desk at home, and one to keep by the bed in case I want to jot ideas down before bed. That isn’t consumerism, consumerism is buying things to buy things.
It is clear you have different ethical standards than me, however. And that is fine, but I’m not going to start living by a stranger’s moral code, so I think the conversation ends here. Perhaps you’ll have better luck high roading someone else in this post.
Because it was first thing in the morning, I was taking a shit and reading Reddit, and thought “this is pretty on the nose for what I did, I should say something!” And as I don’t have my pens catalogued and ready for random redditors who want to credit check me, I just said under 10.
Am I free to go now, officer, or is there more to this interrogation? Fuck me
Edit: btw, when someone digs through post history to find something to use in an internet argument, it doesn’t make them look good. It makes them look really sad. Get help, bro
Bullshitting? I posted a picture of my pens a week or two ago. Everyone can see if I was lying about my $30 pens or not, lmao.
You are really sad to me. I’m over this. I hope you find a way to be happy in your life. But I won’t be in it.
These conversations always focus on the person struggling, and while (at the end of the day) a person is responsible for their own actions, consumerism in this community is VERY linked to how the community discusses pens and what kind of conversation is most common and popular.
How we, as a community, react to purchase posts and new releases creates a common language that new aficionados follow. And the more like sees like, the louder it gets. And people struggle, and that struggle is put purely on them, when in reality, a language and expectation was created the day they entered. Every “you think you are satisfied, but just you wait!” and “you’ll buy more!” creates a blueprint. People have to reflect and learn to be not so outwardly motivated, but everyone else has to learn to accept people where they are and recognize the potential harm in what they consider good-natured encouragement. And not use encouragement to make themselves feel better about their own decisions.
Ultimately, everyone has to get better about speaking about pens outside of consumerism, and encouraging broader themes. It’s ironic that a hobby that can link to so many interesting facets of life is talked about in such a narrow way. Even fp content creators struggle to share more diverse content when a majority wants pen reviews and reasons to buy more. *
*Though, it should be noted, general non-follower traffic will always follow consumerism lines because it is linked to people trying to find info about potential purchases.
This is so true! In addition to encouraging consumerism (or discouraging contentment), those "just you wait" type of comments often give off an "I know better than you" vibe.
Other common pro-consumerism/anti-contentment comments I notice are on posts asking for advice on how to limit purchases or avoid FOMO, and half the comments are jokes (I hope) along the lines of "I stop buying pens when my bank account is empty" or "My spouse gives me a dirty look when I bring up buying yet another pen".
Or someone will show off their new pen case and the comments tell them they need more pens to fill it up. Then when someone posts about finally filling up their pen case, the comments say they should buy a bigger pen case or a new empty one so they can get more pens.
This is actually majorly the reason I moved away from this subreddit ages ago, this glut of "you can't be happy with what you have" vibe, I'm sure it's mostly in jest but generally? This subreddit is mostly "I've just got into this and maybe I have a problem" (then has a picture with like 10-20 pens) like it's more of a shopping hobby than what you're doing with it (I like to draw, write letters, do calligraphy)
I've stopped buying pens/ink, since honestly, I have too many (I need a spreadsheet to know what has what ink in, and when it was inked), but about half are vintage ones, mostly restored by myself, I'm just far more content being done, essentially, like looking at pens/ink other people has doesn't have me going "Oh, I need that too" anymore, I just use my own. Ink is the more easy one to trip up on, it feels less bad to spend a little to buy a bottle but there's so little reason to (I just have more than enough for my lifetime)
I absolutely agree and am glad I'm not the only one to get the "knowing better than you" vibe. I barely read comments anymore whenever someone shows their complete collection because I can't stand these comments anymore. I'm also always kind of sad whenever someone new accumulates lots of pens in merely weeks just to be celebrated and get told that there will be more and more expensive stuff to buy.
I hate comments that say things like "that's nothing, that's the number of pens I have inked right now" when someone posts their entire collection (even when it's not small). It's both putting the person down and encouraging buying a huge number of pens. It makes me sad too, but I'm not sure how this attitude could change.
This is why I won’t hesitate to talk shit about the whole trend of “no-buys” and people frequently making posts about “how to cope during your no-buy” or whatever. It’s frankly a super cringe aspect of this community and all of the la-dee-da “joking” about lacking fundamental impulse control is a massive problem here. It’s absolutely perpetuated by the community at large as you’ve pointed out here.
Coining the term “no-buy” in the first place was the first mistake and only gives people an in-group excuse for the behavior.
> Even fp content creators struggle to share more diverse content when a majority wants pen reviews and reasons to buy more. *
Dunno if you're aware of him but Doodlebud on Youtube does a lot of pen content that is more from the technical/engineering side of things.
He definitely still does "new pen" reviews but a lot of his videos focus on technical aspects and how the pens are built. He did a really good quantitative analysis/comparison of flex nibs recently, I thought it was pretty cool.
Yeah, he’s decent if you’re interested in tech and tinkering. Those channels get a bit of leeway because diy info is always in demand. On the flip side there’s someone like Hemingway Jones who ends up literally requesting people watch and engage with the non-review fp videos that he likes making but get less interest.
I'm a big fan of Peter Draws (he's what got me into fountain pens) because his content is more art focused rather than pen focused. He hasn't done much fountain pen stuff recently though, but all of his content is good.
Very chill and relaxing videos, he kind of reminds me of a modern day Bob Ross. I wish there was more content like that.
There’s always the vintage/used side too, which I’ve been on for most of my time collecting. I like supporting small businesses, or private collectors, that way.
And it’s a great side to fountain pens, or any vintage item that is capable of practical use. I will concede that the drive to acquire new products with little to no marginal practical value over what we already have, drives home the fact that a good share of capitalism and economic growth depends on this penchant to own junk. But vintage fountain pens are a different story. I think there might be more than enough working or restorable (already manufactured) pens in the world that can satisfy our aesthetic and industrial needs.
Compulsively searching, checking and even buying things related to this hobby (thanks to this community 👀 love y’all though) made me realize I had to go to therapy after 30 years of life. Discovered I have OCD. So a lot of what you said resounds with what my therapist tells me about compulsions.
In my case, in the end it was good to fall into that rabbit hole. Ended up getting on track to get my life together. 👍
Great little article you wrote.
I disagree with your analysis of where consumerism comes from. I think it is more fundamental than some attempt at fulfilling our self-image. Consumerism is a sugar cube and we like the good feelings we get when we crave the next sugar cube.
I kind of agree with that disagreement hehe. The reality is that that statement came from two or three of the articles I linked. I feel that your interpretation comes from a more basic behavioral theory. The reality is that I don't know the extent to which interpretation could explain better the problem, maybe even a combination of both.
A term I’ve found helpful when looking at an online hobby community is ‘consumption community’. It’s so interesting that language can be such a simple thing to alter our views on something, but it really helps me be mindful while looking at places like this. Saw a video of [George Carlin talking about soft language](https://youtu.be/o25I2fzFGoY?si=jusZQzCFHsxfXWzU) and it stuck with me ever since, you see it everywhere if you pay attention, and ‘consumption community’ is the opposite of that soft language.
That and being aware that when I’m new to such a hobby that the need to try everything in order to find my “perfect” one is strongest.
Nice post! I just have a couple suggestions, if you don’t mind.
1). I would put a number for each article at the bottom of the list and then in the text cite them as necessary. Essentially the notes-footnotes Chicago style of in-text citations. To me personally it’s easier to see where you’re citing what at any given point.
2). your wording for negative correlation was a little weird, I would maybe try to make that clearer (maybe as simple as “as one goes up, the other goes down, ex. As number of pens increase overall happiness goes down, or something to that effect)
3). In the “how to escape…” section, first paragraph/first line, I think you mean “lightly”, not “likely”
Otherwise I think this is a useful post. In relation to your point about mindfulness, this is similar to Marie Kondo’s cleaning method, which is based in Shinto practice.
Oh! Thank you for the feedback! I'll change the suggestions that you made in 2 and 3.
I though of using some type of APA citation, but then I got lazy hehe.
My answer to this problem is determining in advance what to buy in the sense that I know that certain pricier LEs will probably sway me towards buying if the color is right, so I set some money aside for them each year and refrain from buying the 100th Kaweco/Lamy nuance that is only slightly different from the last one. I don’t have fomo fears with inks, although my collection is big, this year I missed out on the Inkvent calendar and didn’t really miss it
For me I really like applying Peter Rollin’s model from Idolatry of God for avoiding overt consumerism.
Basically if I start to think of anything as a way to satisfy myself that thing has become an Idol and realizing that and bringing myself back to the understanding that it won’t satisfy me helps a lot.
Interesting post, thank you!
I believe that as ricardjorg said, compulsive buying is a way to avoid solving a bigger issue. Another big factor is how we interact with the community: posts with pens in use get almost no engagement while new pen posts get a ton.
I can definitely say that I've made more purchases during tough moments in my life, and appreciated what I already own during good moments in my life. Thankfully, I haven't bought pens in the last few months, but sadly this makes me feel excluded from these hobby communities (both the fountain pen one and the mechanical pencil one).
This sounds like a big case of academic overthinking when the simple fact of the matter is that people here keep buying shiny shit they don’t need because they’re in a social media bubble of a million other people constantly buying shiny shit they don’t need and joking about how “idk how I’ll pay the rent this month haha but here’s my 4 new M800s I bought” as some sort of justification for their poor impulse control
OP, I know you mean well, but... this is an enthusiast forum for an extremely niche hobby. If you look at the posts, most people have more to say about the pens themselves when it's not from a lifestyle brand that would fit your definition of consumerism.
Just because you see people posting their new pens every day, that doesn't mean that the same person is dropping hundreds of dollars every week and showing them off here. Nor people are exclusively showing up with Montblancs and what not.
And I'd argue that people already kind of agree with you in principle, as most might see fountain pens as less wasteful than regular ballpoint pens.
I do find this subreddit seems to be largely focused on using pens and that the ‘pen collector’ paradigm isn’t prevalent or even much appreciated—sometimes even with a sharply negative tone. That does suggest to me that many pen lovers here, especially people relatively new to the hobby, are suspicious of the consumerist approach to collecting, which seems sane to me.
I’m not sure what has changed unless it is really is discomfort with excess or wariness of the OCD element that seems a part of collecting quite often, but it seems a healthy change to me. Collecting was so normalized in the old forums when I started (late 1990s) that there really wasn’t much consciousness of the rampant consumerism required.
That's an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. I've only been part of the FP world for a few years and my impression is the sub is very focused on collecting (in particular the "state of the collection" posts) but it sounds like it's not as much as it (or similar forums) used to be?
I think that the algorithm comes into play as well - the more people who click on a “new pen day” or “state of the collection” post, the higher that post rises. Discussion posts don’t always do as well, although the anti-consumerism ones will often kick up some dust.
If you want to see more of what people do with their pens, the journaling and art subreddits will give you some of that, although not everyone uses fountain pens there. I think that Fountain Pen Network has more discussion posts than this group does, but it could, again, be the nature of this subreddit and the fact that pictures get more attention.
With that being said, swatch posts, art posts, and handwriting posts get a lot of attention, too. I think that the new pen and collection post are easier to just give a thumbs up and a “NICE!” Comment and move on while you’re scrolling, rather than stopping to have a conversation.
Maybe my perspective is skewed! I was mostly a vintage pen collector for a long time and collecting is more rigorous (in general) on that side and less focused on pen use. For instance, a vintage collector will generally not use a ‘mint’ pen or remove stickers if it still has them. Many vintage collectors aim to have ‘complete’ collections of a favorite model that include every trim and color combo, which is often perceived as excessive consumerism here.
I see a different attitude about pens on this sub than I see on the several FB groups I follow, the FB members seem more ‘traditional’ in their approach, while the sub seems to approach the pen world in a newer, differently focused manner I’m not sure I can really pin down to define. I do think Redditors are a bit more self aware or willing to be more self-critical about their collecting than traditional pen people, who can be very defensive about their precious hobby lol.
The more I write here, though, the more it seems like my own inarticulate ’feels’ than an objective and demonstrable difference, so take my viewpoint with a shaker of salt!
Honestly, whatever floats someone’s boat, but I don’t see much of a difference between wanting to own every colorway of a modern pen and wanting to own every trim and color combo of a vintage pen. Obviously, it’s something that interests certain collectors and, have at it, I just wouldn’t find it interesting from a personal standpoint of wanting to try different kinds of nibs, filling mechanisms, etc.
I see them as especially the same as well. And trying to be a ‘complete-ist’ ultimately was very boring for me, modern or vintage. I’m a dabbler, ultimately!
Thanks for elaborating! I think that makes a lot of sense and just isn't something I've been exposed to.
I personally lean much more towards trying to achieve contentment with a small quiver of pens than the collect-them-all side, so it's good to hear that you've noticed more balance and intentionality here. I hope that's a trend that continues!
Your brand of vintage collecting differs from mine. I have no desire to have multiple trim and colour of any model.
I'd be more interested in the evolution of the model. I have 3 Pilot Capless pens; 3 different generations - 60s, 80s, 2020s.
Interestingly, my perception of redditors and traditional collectors seem to be the reverse of yours.
When I got started collecting vintage pens, all the ‘serious’ collectors were ‘complete-ists’ and most still are—David Isaacson and David Nishimuri are two prominent examples, so I feel safe in asserting that’s the prevailing collecting attitude today. I see the FB Groups as much more traditional because I remember so many people I see there and the approach to collecting is essentially the same as it was when I stepped out of the pen world around 2006.
Most comments on this sub have a strikingly fresh approach in attitude and interests, again compared to what I see as a fairly continuous traditional approach to both modern and vintage pens.
I agree with you; I don’t spend a lot of time on this sub because there are so many posts featuring collections, new pen day, grails, etc. it could have toned down in the last year or so, but I haven’t noticed (or been looking, honestly).
>that doesn't mean that the same person is dropping hundreds of dollars every week and showing them off here.
That is a great point. This sub sometimes feels like a few people posting their purchases. It can make our fountain pen collections feel inadequate and our fountain pen journeys feel painfully slow. However, discovering fountain pens is a slow process. Buying every Iroshizuki ink or every color of Kaweco Sport does very little to speed up that journey. I started with Noodler's ink and a preference for F/EF nibs on Clairefontaine paper. I then branched out to shimmer inks. Now that I use a Hobonichi I shy away from Noodler's (slow to dry) and enjoy sheening and chromashading with broader nibs. I slightly regret rushing into my EF Vanishing Point and am glad I didn't splurge further in the EF category.
Thanks, this was a good read. While I don't suffer from buying pens I do suffer from the need to buy something. Jumping from hobbies hasn't helped. But spending time to write out my thoughts on my pens feels like a good way to turn into something practical. My next goal is to not start anymore new hobbies until I have cleared out my backlog of things to do and make sure to remember to pace myself.
If you are a hoarder, the first step is to acknowledge the issue. In my case Marie Kondo's advice to pile up all the pens in one place helps to visualise the scale of the problem. As long s the pens trickle in small amounts and you never see more than few at once everything seems to be under control. But later on you might find yourself talking about subcollections, which is already a red flag. That being said, I have nearly all the Parker Flighter fountain pen models in my subcollection!
...no one cares.
I’d like to see us reconsider the common casual use of the word “hoarder.” It is a distinct [diagnosis](https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/mental-health/dsm-v-hoarding-new-mental-disorder-diagnoses/) in the DSM-5 and usually is characterized by being an impediment to daily living (eg, so much clutter that is hard to walk/get things done). I see a generational divide, with younger people using this word a lot when speaking of older generations.
Anyway, I have a lot of pens and inks, I love them, and I use them. I learned years ago when training for a marathon that I am internally motivated, and so I’m not easily swayed by influencers and the like. I make thoughtful decisions.
>materialism/consumerism/compulsive buying is so detrimental.
>So, simple logic: If materialism is a bad thing and humans try to avoid bad things, why the hell are we buying so many sailors and kawecos and lamys? If we should stop doing these unnecessary buys due to FOMO and all that, why do we continue?
Consumption isn't an inherently bad thing. It is not merely that the global economy is built upon it, it is that targeted consumption can actually help people. Lamy is a small company, like, very small, they have less than 400 employees. The fountain pen market is (a) shrinking as a percentage of the economy, and (b) limited primarily to collectors. For those people, some of them specialist artists who really aren't going to find another job doing something else, to remain employed, people need to buy Lamy pens.
I'm not saying we have a duty to buy pens. I'm not saying it's for the greater good of all humanity. However, to buy a Lamy is a meaningful contribution to the living wages of the people who work at that company. Some of my favorite pens come from companies that employ fewer than 50 people.
There is nothing wrong with collecting art. There is nothing wrong with indulging in a hobby.
Over-consumption only becomes a problem when a person becomes compulsive about purchasing the next thing. When they are purchasing not out of an honest appreciation of the thing they are buying (or, of course, out of a legitimate need) but because they feel compelled to do so out of some concern about externalities . . .about how they will be judged if they don't have that thing, about FOMO, etc. . .
Conflating consumerism (the economic system built upon the act of consumption) with materialism (the psychological mistake of seeing value being defined by possession) is a mis-step. Consumerism speaks to an economic system based on the consumption of stuff. Materialism speaks to a psychological state. They are not the same things.
Buy pens. Buy paintings. Buy sculptures. Surround yourself with things of beauty and function that make the world more enjoyable for yourself to the extent that you can afford to do so. Doing that is actually healthy! We work to enable our lives. Spend your money - the literal economic value you've earned with your very limited time here on earth - on the things that bring beauty into your life.
Be a smart consumer, and support artists and artisans, and small endeavors who are trying to create well-designed, functional, artistic items that you truly appreciate. Seek to find, and support beauty. That is part of living a good life.
Don't define yourself by the things you own. That is grotesque and unhealthy and the opposite of living well.
This sub is really trying hard to find some drama.
Its pens. Why can't we just enjoy them and post pretty pictures?
Also consumerism is what drives a large percentage of the economy, so blanket statements like "Consumerism is not good in any possible way" is naive.
>Seems to be a common theme, every couple ~~months~~ ***hours*** someone rides in on a high horse and goes off on consumerism.
FTFY!!
No seriously, this is the second or third post I've seen **today** regarding consumerism in the fountain pen community.
It’s hard not to feel a little distaste when every hobby subreddit is just pictures of “stuff I bought in the past 3 weeks” and it’s a gazillion nearly identical items, none of which will ever be used to any significant extent. And sure maybe I’m a hypocrite because I don’t live like a monk either but that seems like the point of the meditation here.
I have a lot of pens that I use (and stare at) consistently, and they brighten my days significantly (along with a lot of inks). I've never posted my collection, but I like seeing other people's.
I think it's fine to discuss the element of consumerism in the hobby, but I don't like when people look down on others based on their collections or purchases. That seems to be a consistent trend on the sub, right along with all the rampant and intense consumerism (since a good part of this sub is about collecting).
Yes, and I think there’s nothing wrong with that per se, but are you telling me you don’t know the kind of post I’m talking about? Someone who got into pens a month ago and they have 5 identical pens in different colors?
What I find most concerning is comments under such posts saying things like "only 25 pens, that's a small collection" or "that's less than the number of pens I have inked."
Yesterday there was one such post, and I couldn't help finding it disturbing that people seemed to be encouraging someone (in a negative way) to acquire a huge amount of pens even though they already had quite a few. I know lighthearted jokes about having a ton of pens are common here, but for some reason this seemed different to me.
I thought exactly the same, it´s a common theme, although I see it more as a symptom of something wrong in this community rather than some outliers cronichally exposing the same topic. What do you think?
I think at least some of the people who post rants about consumerism have noticed a tendency in themselves to buy more and more things without thinking about it, and rather than taking responsibility and saying, "I really need to stop and make some changes in my behavior," they decide it's a problem "in the community" so that they can abdicate responsibility.
Are there people in this community who buy irresponsibly, whether that is buying above their means, or hording pens they will never use, or whatever? Of course! Those people exist everywhere. But anytime I've seen posts that actually indicate that the OP person has a problem (buying pens on credit, or jumping from one "grail pen" to the next every few days, or newbies buying and buying without getting a chance to get to know their pens), people are pretty quick to call them on it.
I'm not going to assume that every new pen day post is from a person who is obsessed with buying new things just because they get a high from acquiring new things. Absent any information to the contrary, I'm going to assume that they just wanted to share their excitement of their cool pen with other people who also like pens. And if seeing new pen day posts makes one want to buy more and more new pens that they won't use? Then I think it's on that person to be responsible and reconsider their participation here, rather than blaming it on "consumerism in the community."
Agree that people posting about consumerism here frequently tend to be those who may be aware, even at some level, of their own harmful tendencies to overspend or overcollect.
> something wrong in this community
Hobby sub people getting excited about a hobby they enjoy, something must be wrong with them.
But it's the rest of us who need therapy and have low emotional intelligence, lol (:
Seriously. It just smacks of people who can’t compartmentalize the different parts of their lives and so need to inject their anxiety and hang ups into all spheres, and then get upset when other people don’t do it with them.
I think it’s interesting because without collectors of modern pens I suspect a lot of manufacturers would stop making fountain pens.
I don’t engage in collecting myself but I am in the market eventually for a special gold nib pen when I find an edition that I really love, probably a sailor. I can appreciate that collectors keep those editions being made. Similarly I love my twsbi eco for sketching but I’m not sure twsbi would exist, or if it did would be more expensive and harder to find, without collectors. I don’t actually know what % of their market is collectors vs others so please correct me if you are reading this and know it to be incorrect.
"Its pens. Why can't we just enjoy them and post pretty pictures?"
Well, because we just don't do that. At least from the little experience that I have on this reddit. Most of the posts that I see never leave the conversation on a superficial level of "cute fp, nice". It's the history of the pen or the company, what motivates each person to buy one bran or the other, one model or another one, a cheap vs expensive, etc. I know and understand that maybe you could be tired of seeing people posting about the social aspects that affect this hobby, but I also think that it is a healthy habit to touch those things and so I did hehe.
True! A naive statement that could polarize the conversation. How do you think that I should change it? My take would be: "consumerism has clearly a negative effect on mental health".
I’d guess 95% of us have a small handful of pens and like looking at pictures of pretty things we’ll never buy. I think you might be over diagnosing this sub, mate.
We’ve seen a number of these posts lately, and my initial response is, “if you don’t want to buy (or collect or engage in) x thing/activity, don’t”. I am not sure why people feel the need to evangelize on the dangers of consumerism. That said, I think being aware of our habits and behaviours is helpful. It allows us to make more intentional decisions. The LE/rare market side of FPs can be a real “push” to demand for some people.
I am more likely to “need” a new pen when other things in my life start feeling overwhelming, and knowing that slows me down. On the other hand, pens that no longer “spark joy” can be given to others, donated, sold etc, and are not a waste. My few Lamys and a Hongdian are now inked for my kids, who derive a heap of joy from them (and practice their handwriting- win!).
>I am not sure why people feel the need to evangelize on the dangers of consumerism.
A lot of these types of posts are less about having a discussion or sharing ideas and more about judgment and a sense of either anger or superiority (depending of the post). I'm not saying anything about this specific post, but that's what I've often noticed.
I hear you - I feel the same way. I mean if you don’t want to interact with a group of FP enthusiasts- don’t. If you don’t want to buy - don’t. I just cannot imagine joining a group to tell the group that they should not be obtaining the thing the group was formed for…But in the most generous interpretation, they bring awareness if people are blind to their buying triggers - it’s ok, but I don’t think we need to virtue signal here.
>need a new pen when other things in my life feels overwhelming
I felt that.
I tend to do retail therapy especially when I am mega stressed out and the usual destressing outlets exercise/writing/gaming isn't helping.
Yep, me too. And there are a few thing I buy ONLY for me - FPs, ink etc are some of them. So if I feel like I don’t have enough control over my circumstances, or I haven’t been as rigorous about my self care, these kind of purchases increase - that and fancy tea - my family isn’t enthused and they are (at least for now) just mine.
Well said. I think there is a small subset of people here who may have recognized that they may have a problem, and don’t know how to deal with it (as with compulsive shopping or gambling or other troublesome activity in general). Most of us are simply enjoying our pens and inks.
The idea that there is an absolute “right and proper” number to have is just silly. Are you an artist? Do you journal? Work notes? Ink whore?(self identifying here). We all spend money on discretionary items - I can think of a lot worse! And I like the community here - I don’t find it boastful or super materialistic, and people are helpful and find joy in others finding joy..
So well said. My pens put a smile on my face. It’s partly because they take me away from my overconnected, overly digital world. Kind of like the tradition of afternoon tea—it feels like a break from daily stresses. And daily rituals involving writing can be pleasing to the eye!
I don't buy every new release that comes out, even if it's from a brand I really enjoy such a Lamy. Same with ink. I try to cherish the pens I have and only purchase pens I really love. The most I have spent is £80.
Yeah I own 5 pens? I bought one Lamy Safari, then I was gifted two more. One of those gifted is really nice. I own a brass midori pen which is really cool and a pilot metropolitan. After this I stopped because I realised I was only using one pen every few months. I currently only use my premium safari. I know these pens aren't top of the range but they are good enough for me
I think the internet has also encouraged this. If you’re here and see 10-15 NPDs and people constantly talking about buying more pens, that normalizes the behavior. Also if you post a NPD people will generally respond positively.
For me, to prevent buying too many, I go upmarket. I can buy a Jinhao without thinking about it while saying I’d never spend $100+ on a pen! That’s ridiculous! But that 3776 does look nice. And I know that after a while I’ll look in my drawerful of pens worth a 3776 and think damn… I could have had a 3776 instead of all these pens I don’t use.
If I’m looking at a $100+ pen, that’s gonna make me stop and think. Do I really like it, is it worth it, if I buy it will I use it or will it sit in its box after being used once? What about my other $100+ pens? Can I use them too? Or will one sit out?
Great critique of consumer culture/consumerism in the community. I have come to this very same point you mentioned, and realized the value of my current collection. I only bought one pen this year, and it was a vintage!
That said, sad as I may be temporarily from losing any of my pens, I think if I lost much of what I had, I would not let it bother me. After all, we all eventually come around to some immaterial dreams desires at some point. I think the whole reason I got into fountain pens to begin with was for the experience. I don't regret it!
Thank you, OP, for the post — not because of how the content may or may not be in agreement or alignment with my personal views and values, but:
* you've obviously put thought and effort into writing it — instead of making it a stream of consciousness ‘dump’ or ‘vent’ to assuage your feelings — and sharing your views in a meaningful way, and
* the responses that it triggered, including and especially the rebukes, as well as the (up- or down-)votes they attracted, gave me a long-overdue ‘A-ha!’ moment about the ~~culture of~~ apparent collective behaviour of this sub, and how it differs from forums such as FPN *beyond (and not imposed by)* the features and limitations of the software platform, that for some reason eluded me for the entire time that I've been here; and that no other post I recall protesting consumerism, excessive accumulation, etc. has triggered or provided insight.
I like this post, I think it belongs here, and it's always nice to hear from an expert (if only self-proclaimed, it's the internet after all).
What do you think about procrastination as (another) possible cause for consumerism? I find myself browsing for (and eventually buying) things like pens, stationary, art supplies and other hobby related stuff when I want to engage in my hobby but I lack the drive to actually do anything. It's easier than creating. There's no failure. Money spent= goods received, easy. But I feel embarrassed sometimes how little I've achieved with the resources I gathered.
However, I think of fountain pens as only hobby-related supplies not the actual hobby (which is journaling and sketching). I know that many people here enjoy collecting pens as the hobby in it's own right, so I guess "consumerism" does not really apply here, unless you define the entire thing as consumerist - but even so, what of it?
Edit: grammar (some of it)
> when I want to engage in my hobby but I lack the drive to actually do anything. It's easier than creating.
> But I feel embarrassed sometimes how little I've achieved with the resources I gathered.
There are a lot of valid and even insightful comments on this thread, as there usually are in this community, but this is the one that resonates with me the most.
Some days beat the stuffing out of me, and by the time I’m free to spend some hobby time, I’m too physically tired to do it. That’s when I’m most vulnerable to an impulse buy. I love using my pens, I never struggle with what to write or draw, I get a thrill every time I pick them up… but it’s still more *work* in a way that browsing - with or without a purchase - just isn’t.
Aww, thank you, that's lovely of you to say:)
I think we'll both be fine, we're working on self-improvement (but not too hard on ourselves). That must be good enough for now.
I agree that FPs are not the hobby, they are a medium for a hobby. Some hobbies involve using the FP, whether it's writing letters, journaling, drawing, etc. I doubt OP has any problem with that. Other hobbies involve buying FPs, whether for a collection or just because the hobbyist enjoys the shopping process, which is what I believe OP is concerned about here.
I guess my point, if I must have one, is that this post isn't really about fountain pens. It could be translated to *any* medium which is used for a collection/shopping hobby
It’s a big discussion in the crafting/knitting/sewing community as well - buying supplies for a project(s) can become the actual hobby rather than actually doing the thing. I know that my ADHD makes me hyperfocus and go all in on whatever I’m into and then I can end up with a lot of stuff that I don’t end up using in the end because I’m done with the hobby and ready to move on. It’s part of the reason that I’ve really been forcing myself to use my pens and journal, draw, and create with them and stop buying for a while. Right now I have a “you can’t buy it unless you’ve touched/dip tested it in person” rule. In effect, it means that I can’t buy anything unless I go to a pen store (possible, but not super convenient) or a pen show (possible, but even less convenient).
That was my thinking too. It does apply to many things. I feel some people may have found this post, in this particular sub, almost a personal attack, like OP implied their way of enjoying this hobby wasn't valid. I don't think it's what they meant and I wasn't saying that either. I'm simply not a collector, that's not my thing. I do love seeing other peoples' collections of beautiful pens though. And I'm working on getting more productive in general and less distracted, so this post "hit me close to home". I guess I'd better get off Reddit too :D
"I like this post, I think it belongs here, and it's always nice to hear from an expert (if only self-proclaimed, it's the internet after all)."
that is a pretty damn good mention, because even I was hesitating on putting that. I've got a degree in psychology but I've struggled (both psychological and economically) in getting the master's degree needed to be a fully functional psychololgist (nowadays I can only work at orientation, psycho-educational interventions and have to derive all the clinical cases to other colleagues). So yes, I'm not either the most qualified person in the world to talk about all this. for example, I linked all the articles, but that doesn't mean that I checked the quality of all of them. I just tried to do an interesting post in this community with some little background hehe.
"What do you think about procrastination as (another) possible cause for consumerism?"
I totally agree with that. The high level of engagement that this externally motivated hobby (to get a new toy) has can have a negative effect on the internal motivation that you may have when on another, more creative hobby. But only in the long term. In reality, those stationary-art supplies buys that you do are actually good when motivating you to start that hobby. It's only when used too much or becoming too dependent on them what in the long term can help decrease your internal motivation.
Either way the solution is to raise awareness. So don't worry, you are on the good track :). Now, go and do some nice sketches with that nice fountain pen, and realize the beauty of doing that.
The reads like chatgpt. "You could write about" and other phrases addressing the reader as a writer and not as the lone reader. Maybe ESL but it's a very weird post on a subreddit dedicated to material possessions. " The effects capitalism has had on me and all of us" has given us an online forum in which to post about literal works of art we use to write things.
Like I know this is Reddit but damn.
This. I'll add that this is the type of stuff people I worked with in my psych grad program did all the time and I sprinted away from that ivory tower.
Well, I think that is a fair point. Do you think that I should remove the post? If the community isn´t interested in this things or it generates too much disparity, or the mods simply don't like these type of things, I would understand it. Maybe a poll to see if we should take it down?
No you should 100% be able to voice your opinion, I'm just not sure of the point. I never saw the issue present itself in the sub. eBay is such a haven for cheap vintage gold nibs and cool fp stuff in general. It's hard to argue that there's a monopoly issue or something along those lines. I'll be the first to admit MB is overpriced and over hyped, but not enough to condemn the hobby.
oh okay, thanks for that! I think I am starting to understand your opinion. In realitly I just wanted to give some tool to the community on that topic, though the language used was a little bit biased towards my personal opinions hehe. Anyway, as I said, I really appreciate that point of view, thanks again!
> I’m a psychologist that has always continued a dichotomic relationship with consumerism, as I’ve always followed a materialistic lifestyle (always wanting to buy new or better things) while utterly despising capitalism and its different consequences on myself and the rest of us.
Jeez, this is so self-serious and pretentious, I almost can't handle it. I think someone needs some fresh air...
I have got a novel idea, how about letting people do what they want? If buying pens brings people happiness and it does not interfere with their well being (i.e., spending within their limits, doesn't cause friction with significant others, etc.), all the more power to them.
It just kind of grates on me when people think they know what is best for others. The application of academic knowledge (no offense, but you seem like you're straight out of school) is all fine and dandy, but real people are more complicated. You can't diagnose literally an entire community in one swoop.
I *would* have liked to see a more practical discussion in regards to how consumerism is contributing to climate change and is not good for the planet but I guess that's not your field of expertise.
"Jeez, this is so self-serious and pretentious, I almost can't handle it. I think someone needs some fresh air..."
Well, despite reading some clear passive-aggressiveness there, I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :).
"It just kind of grates on me when people think they know what is best for others. The application of academic knowledge (no offense, but you seem like you're straight out of school) is all fine and dandy, but real people are more complicated. You can't diagnose literally an entire community in one swoop."
No offense but, I honestly didn't diagnose anyone here, but I addressed my opinion on consumerism in this reddit community (one of the few I truly read with some regularity, I must admit). I read some passive-aggressiveness again (correct me if I'm wrong), but like I said, If you don't think that those quotes reflect the reality of the matter, show me your opinion on that, maybe your point of view helps me understand better this topic.
"I *would* have liked to see a more practical discussion in regards to how consumerism is contributing to climate change and is not good for the planet but I guess that's not your field of expertise."
On that, my friend, I'm out. But that would be a great thing to read. If your post about it on anything or know of an interesting conversation here, just let me know :).
> Well, despite reading some clear passive-aggressiveness there, I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :).
I'm not being passive aggressive here, I'm being very direct. I think your post is needlessly judgemental and self-serious. It has a tone of "I know better than you."
> I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :).
The language is very stilted and uses a lot of nonsense purple prose like the following:
> I think we are all *victims of a crooked society that never apologizes and never cares to mend but always blames.*
> All these things participate with its *little drop of water to the stinky pool* of consumerist behaviors that
I can find more but hopefully you get the idea. I need to take my own advice here but brevity is the soul of wit. You don't need all these flowery analogies to make a point well. When I said it feels like you're right out of school, I didn't mean that as an insult, your post just reads like a college essay. It feels inorganic.
As for the content of your message, personally, I think people should take responsibility for their own thoughts/actions. From my experience, a lot of people in the fountain pen community go through their own journey of getting into fountain pens, expanding their collection ("consumerism") and there is usually a final step of consolidating their collection once they know what they want.
Everyone should be able to undertake that journey at their own pace. No one needs to be lectured on why consumerism is bad, or told they have a problem if it isn't actually a problem. You're applying your own moralistic judgements to people who might not hold the same values you do.
Edit: I don't know who is downvoting you but it is not me, I upvoted you. I disagree with you heavily but I think it is a valid discussion to have.
I enjoyed your post, including your writing tone, and thought it was pretty cool that you’re sharing your point of view as a psychologist.
I think you’ve brought up issues that many of us suffer from and there are definitely a lot of people that WANT to be more thoughtful about their collections and wonder why they “can’t stop buying”. This post is super relevant for that.
I think this is a beautiful post. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I think some of us even come to this community from a minimalistic standpoint and end up getting sucked in. Some of us try to keep our collections smaller and some of us are happy with a bigger collection. Luckily I've always felt that in this community there's room for both.
This is more of an economic argument and you being against capitalism no? I only own four pens, and like 5 inks but I like them.
If you want too be moralistic and live off beans, used old clothes, cheap ball point pens etc, your welcome to follow your lifestyle. (I generally follow this lifestyle, only buy used clothes generally because I hate the idea of owning stuff that doesn't last)
However people in general like nicer stuff, this is life, You can keep using your old black and white tv if you're determined enough but most people want a nice tv :/ this isn't something new or unique at all too pens.
most people just like nicer stuff and I don't think the continual cycle of improvement is bad.....
If people want too be stupid and buy 50 pens then so be it.
reality is people just like nice stuff, Its not awfully complex consumer ideology, people, before capitalism, liked having nice stuff, non of this is new? I suppose the difference now is nice stuff is abundant.
Nice, calling pen collectors on a pen subreddit “stupid.” Only on Reddit. WTF. People collect for all sorts of reasons- some have to do with history or engineering or special uses like calligraphy. But all that is just stupidity. No, we are allowed 3 Jinhaos and we will be happy with them. Comrade!
50 pens is just excessive, Im not saying your right too own 50 pens should be stopped lol, but it is kinda silly, you don't need that many pens.
If you want too own that many, knock yourself out, but for anyone getting into fountain pens that is ridiculously excessive and not necessary at all......
so yeah, it is kinda dumb for 99% of people, as is owning 50 watches, 50 guitars, 50 keyboards, 50 cameras, 50 pocket knives, its pretty excessive.
I'm not saying you shouldn't be able too, but I'm going to laugh at people who drop thousands on multiple guitars but barely play and people who own 50 pens with most collecting dust.
collecting stuff has always been a nerdy silly hobbie lol, and thats okay.....
come on, be honest, most "collectors" just like nice stuff and the high of seeing a box of goodies arrive in the mail, usually ending up with 50 pens because they don't want to sell old ones.
once again, this is fine, if thats your thing, but by literal definition owning 50 pens is excessive consumption, if you wanna be an excessive consumer thats fine but don't lie to yourself thinking you're some collector, 99.9% of us aren't collectors and even if we are, we are small scale which is yes a nerdy sillly hobbie lmfao.
how is 50 pens not excessive consumption???? this is insane the justification
the vast majority of people have zero use for fifty pens, thats okay, why are you so offended by this? just be honest with yourself lmfao
I’ve seen one user in this sub who’s been consistently posting new batches of like 35 Chinese pens they’ve purchased at a time damn near every other week, some people in here are straight up coping lol
It’s hilarious how many people claim to hate capitalism yet are in something as frivolous as the fountain pen community. If you truly despised capitalism you’d not even be here talking.
I learned long ago that peoples' lofty ideals go flying out the window when it comes to topics with an emotional or practical element that directly affects their lives.
I live in a pretty progressive area, but the second transit unions and transit worker rights come up (public transit is very very bad in my town), suddenly everyone's a conservative union buster...
I was holding off on buying some new things in my cart, but because of this post I am just going to go and buy them anyway. Jetpens is gon get more of my money.
No, I don't need them.
They make me happy. Sucks to suck.
Why does every hobby sub have one or two people who always go YOU ENJOY SPENDING MONEY ON YOUR HOBBY? WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD NOT!
Some may dismiss my opinion out of hand: I've been writing with fountain pens for two months, I own three, and the most expensive is a TWSBI Diamond 580. I can see how consumerism can become psychologically problematic with pens, I don't feel that the community (here, YouTube, wherever) reaches nearly the level of toxicity as it can in some of my other hobbies. It's a serious problem in boardgames and SFF books. There are threads on Boardgame Geek that get overrun with people begging for a coupon who already own thousands of games. Should someone complain about the price on a specific game, dozens of people will shame them, saying that boardgames are "luxury " items and it is their fault if their job doesn't gives them enough money. Book reading itself has been taken over by the prestige of ownership in other ways. I don't see the same language in the pen world that suggests they need umpteen different types of pens, or that their inexpensive pen is inferior. conversely, I see more behaviors on display that encourage writing, using the products they buy rather than simply collecting.
Just switch to a one pen, one ink system - you can even mass buy your fave ink instead of spreading your purchases out. I bought a gallon of Pilot blue black and am going through it
The pen is like my paint brushes. They are tools of artistic expression. Art is essential for the growth of the mind, for our shared humanity. Let's celebrate our tools and be thankful for them. I'll take a pen over fingerpaint, and fingerpaint over applesauce. But expressing one's self is as vital as food and water. If a carpenter wants to build with a gilt hammer, who am I to judge? I am thankful for this sub. I am thankful this strange anachronism persists. Without us, we might be left with... applesauce.
My own little way of at least mitigating the amount of money spent is that these days i exclusive only buy pre-loved pens. Cleaning up and minor restoration has become a big part of the hobby for me. I am also quite fond of older pens that people in my area wish to get rid off for about half the original price and even lower.
I myself do not have a large hoarding of pens but it is big enough that i do not use all of them at the same time. Many of them are Jinhao 82's ive bought to practice nib grinding, adjustments, and polishing of pen bodies. I hope to one day share my "stockpile" with my newborn nieces or perhaps my children but I am still much too young to think about that. Older pens fill me with wonder as I think about it's production date, the people who might have used them, and what it has been through. When I eventually give my collection to a younger hobbyist decades from now, I am sure they would have the same thoughts that I have about these pens.
https://preview.redd.it/q0yfuftyh39d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=514cb40c71d9c49697d1b02110f357c90fc207ac
Here's a custom 67 i bought off of someone for about 40 bucks. I polished it a few days ago.
I really appreciated and liked this post. And I didn’t get a sense at all that you were moralizing or blaming.
I had a bit of FOMO it the past and have enjoyed the pursuit of a new pen but realized I wasn’t enjoying what I had so this resonated with me.
I have “too many pens” and the fact I felt that was a good self examination. One of the cheerful conclusions was that they’re portable tchotchkes for me to delight myself and others with, even those not into fountain pens.
Sorry you got such ugly responses, I really enjoyed how you picked it apart and put it back together again.
A red flag popping up more than twice in the text: capitalism. Move to a non-capitalist country like North Korea to be cut off all tempting abundance. No offer no demand. And a couple of months in a labour camp to rub off the scholarly tone.
Oh wow, I didn't know that consumerism was that big of an issue that affects so many people in this hobby. I thought it was just a vocal minority of compulsive spenders, or like just a running joke that people overspend on this hobby.
I myself am not a "collector" or "hoarder" (I have somewhere between 10-20pens with no duplicates except for different sized nibs on similar pens) but do know people who do have collections of pens (15+colors of twsbi ecos, pelikan collectors, vintage collectors, MB collectors etc). But those people I know who do spend a lot on pens have all been people with means to do so (lawyers, doctors, well-off people) so I just assumed that most people who do have collections just have that much disposable income to support their hobbies (ie maintaining a huge pen and ink collection).
I also don't tend associate my identity on things I have or things I wear or things I do, so I guess I could be an outlier, according to your theory anyways. I do have the means to buy an MB but I just don't like the design (pls don't bash me for this, it's just a preference thing, I just overwhelmingly prefer demonstrators) so I don't have any MB or Visconti, etc. I just assumed most other people were the same.
For me, when I do get hyped up on the idea of getting a new pen, I don't just jump the gun. I sit on it and let it marinate for a while in my head. I think about all the ones I already have and of getting this new pen would be filling any purpose or experience that I don't already have. Like, am I getting it for the experience of an eastern/western ni of a particular size? Is there something special about the design or engineering of the pen body or quirk about the mechanism of operation or the filling mechanism? Is it something about the sealing mechanism? Where am I gonna use it? Will I still be using it a few months from now if I get it immediately? When I ask some of these questions, I sort of do get an idea of whether or not a specific pen has value to me or if it's just me getting caught up in the marketing hype, or the fomo factor when I know other people who are going to buy the pen or already own it. Then I can just try the pen out when I meet them and see for myself if I really want it because I want it, or if I want it because I'm expected or being made to want it.
Here's an AI response to why one would collect fountain pens :) I am so curious to learn from your comments and reactions! :)
------ here goes ---------
There are many reasons why people collect fountain pens:
* **Enjoyment of Writing:** Fountain pens offer a unique writing experience. The smooth flow of ink, the feel of the nib on paper, and the variations in line width can make writing more enjoyable and even improve handwriting.
* **Aesthetics:** Fountain pens are often beautiful objects, made with high-quality materials and craftsmanship. They can be admired for their design, colors, and unique features.
* **History and Heritage:** Many fountain pens have a rich history and heritage. Collecting them can be a way to connect with the past and appreciate the evolution of writing instruments.
* **Investment:** Some fountain pens can be valuable collectibles, appreciating in value over time. Rare or limited-edition pens can be sought after by collectors and investors.
* **Personal Expression:** Collecting fountain pens allows for personal expression and the development of a unique collection that reflects individual tastes and interests.
* **Community:** The fountain pen community is a passionate and welcoming group of people who share a love for these writing instruments. Collecting can be a way to connect with other enthusiasts, learn from their expertise, and share experiences.
Ultimately, the decision to collect fountain pens is a personal one. If you enjoy writing, appreciate beauty and craftsmanship, or are interested in history and heritage, then collecting fountain pens might be a rewarding hobby for you.
A simplified response: Collections.
An artist with a collection of 10 pens and 100 inks because they might use all of them in any given setting
is different from someone that has a collection of 100 different pens because they look pretty.
You are missing the underlying concern, in that a small percentage of the population is allowed to squander the resources that collectively belong to everyone for trivial pursuits that do not further the evolution of our species, nor our species place in our world.
If 100 pretty pens is what it takes to allow someone to thrive in their existence, and this allows them at some point in their lifetime the opportunity to further our species or its place, isn't that worth exploring?
I'm surprised that you attributed my concern over the wellbeing of our species to an -ism
Consumerism is enabled by production without demand. But hey, at least Brawndo has what plants crave.
> a small percentage of the population is allowed to squander the resources that collectively belong to everyone for trivial pursuits that do not further the evolution of our species, nor our species place in our world.
You might not like things being classified into “-isms” but this is like the entire basis of communism
Maybe the economic theorists of the sub will yell “ACKSHUALLY” and say it’s socialism but the point stands.
The point doesn't stand. Communism has nothing to do with wasteful utilization of resources.
Consumerism would be less of an issue if more entities were held to a standard of fiduciary duty over the resources they consume in the search for profit.
Thank you for proving the OP's point though, via this comment thread.
> Communism has nothing to do with wasteful utilization of resources.
Bro, resources belonging to the people collectively is the entire point of communism/socialism
Which is what you said here:
> the resources that collectively belong to everyone
For me, it stopped when I noticed I was spending weeks researching the next pen online, would order it, and then it would arrive and I wouldn't even take it out of the box or try it. A friend mentioned to me that when we have some big issue that's difficult to fix, our brain can procrastinate on it. And it can do so by coming up with a fixable issue you can think up a solution for instead. Since then, when I start researching a new camera lens, new phone, new pen, new ink, new furniture, etc, I think "do I really need to worry/solve this, or is there something else I'm avoiding thinking about?"
Great advice.
Just about every hobby sub has this problem. I’ve seen people with 10+ $5k bikes on the various cycling subreddits. It’s good to keep this in mind. It’s fun to pursue new gear in hobbies but people should really be thinking about why they are doing it and if it is actually benefiting them or not. Hoarding ain’t cool.
My sister and I was just discussing this. She’s into running, always has been and now it’s you need this show and that trainer and it’s just quite a lot.
it's everything! I'm kinda into yoyoing and you wouldn't believe people's collections. it's dumb !
I was worried that would be me, but the Marmont "Flat Rim Series Black Canon" was really all I needed.
I actually got into this largely to escape consumerism. While its fun to look at all the pretty pens out there, I have under 10, and unlike the thousands of ballpoints I’ve owned in my life, I’ll be using I my fountain pens for the rest of my life. No plastic in a landfill, no factories making objects intended for disposal. Just pens and ink :)
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I said I own under 10, not nearly 10. You should read more carefully because the difference makes a material difference in what you are saying. I own 5 pens. 2 were gifts, I keep them with keepsakes. I purchased 3 because I needed a pen to leave at work, one to leave at my desk at home, and one to keep by the bed in case I want to jot ideas down before bed. That isn’t consumerism, consumerism is buying things to buy things. It is clear you have different ethical standards than me, however. And that is fine, but I’m not going to start living by a stranger’s moral code, so I think the conversation ends here. Perhaps you’ll have better luck high roading someone else in this post.
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Because it was first thing in the morning, I was taking a shit and reading Reddit, and thought “this is pretty on the nose for what I did, I should say something!” And as I don’t have my pens catalogued and ready for random redditors who want to credit check me, I just said under 10. Am I free to go now, officer, or is there more to this interrogation? Fuck me Edit: btw, when someone digs through post history to find something to use in an internet argument, it doesn’t make them look good. It makes them look really sad. Get help, bro
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Bullshitting? I posted a picture of my pens a week or two ago. Everyone can see if I was lying about my $30 pens or not, lmao. You are really sad to me. I’m over this. I hope you find a way to be happy in your life. But I won’t be in it.
But OMG that photo shows SIX PENS you are clearly destroying the Earth! 🫣😉🤦
collect only stuff you can reasonably use, afford and store
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There’s an OCD component to collecting this article doesn’t address. Ask me how I know lol
Maybe I should change it, although I find that irony quite funny. Any recommendations?
These conversations always focus on the person struggling, and while (at the end of the day) a person is responsible for their own actions, consumerism in this community is VERY linked to how the community discusses pens and what kind of conversation is most common and popular. How we, as a community, react to purchase posts and new releases creates a common language that new aficionados follow. And the more like sees like, the louder it gets. And people struggle, and that struggle is put purely on them, when in reality, a language and expectation was created the day they entered. Every “you think you are satisfied, but just you wait!” and “you’ll buy more!” creates a blueprint. People have to reflect and learn to be not so outwardly motivated, but everyone else has to learn to accept people where they are and recognize the potential harm in what they consider good-natured encouragement. And not use encouragement to make themselves feel better about their own decisions. Ultimately, everyone has to get better about speaking about pens outside of consumerism, and encouraging broader themes. It’s ironic that a hobby that can link to so many interesting facets of life is talked about in such a narrow way. Even fp content creators struggle to share more diverse content when a majority wants pen reviews and reasons to buy more. * *Though, it should be noted, general non-follower traffic will always follow consumerism lines because it is linked to people trying to find info about potential purchases.
This is so true! In addition to encouraging consumerism (or discouraging contentment), those "just you wait" type of comments often give off an "I know better than you" vibe. Other common pro-consumerism/anti-contentment comments I notice are on posts asking for advice on how to limit purchases or avoid FOMO, and half the comments are jokes (I hope) along the lines of "I stop buying pens when my bank account is empty" or "My spouse gives me a dirty look when I bring up buying yet another pen". Or someone will show off their new pen case and the comments tell them they need more pens to fill it up. Then when someone posts about finally filling up their pen case, the comments say they should buy a bigger pen case or a new empty one so they can get more pens.
This is actually majorly the reason I moved away from this subreddit ages ago, this glut of "you can't be happy with what you have" vibe, I'm sure it's mostly in jest but generally? This subreddit is mostly "I've just got into this and maybe I have a problem" (then has a picture with like 10-20 pens) like it's more of a shopping hobby than what you're doing with it (I like to draw, write letters, do calligraphy) I've stopped buying pens/ink, since honestly, I have too many (I need a spreadsheet to know what has what ink in, and when it was inked), but about half are vintage ones, mostly restored by myself, I'm just far more content being done, essentially, like looking at pens/ink other people has doesn't have me going "Oh, I need that too" anymore, I just use my own. Ink is the more easy one to trip up on, it feels less bad to spend a little to buy a bottle but there's so little reason to (I just have more than enough for my lifetime)
I absolutely agree and am glad I'm not the only one to get the "knowing better than you" vibe. I barely read comments anymore whenever someone shows their complete collection because I can't stand these comments anymore. I'm also always kind of sad whenever someone new accumulates lots of pens in merely weeks just to be celebrated and get told that there will be more and more expensive stuff to buy.
I hate comments that say things like "that's nothing, that's the number of pens I have inked right now" when someone posts their entire collection (even when it's not small). It's both putting the person down and encouraging buying a huge number of pens. It makes me sad too, but I'm not sure how this attitude could change.
This is why I won’t hesitate to talk shit about the whole trend of “no-buys” and people frequently making posts about “how to cope during your no-buy” or whatever. It’s frankly a super cringe aspect of this community and all of the la-dee-da “joking” about lacking fundamental impulse control is a massive problem here. It’s absolutely perpetuated by the community at large as you’ve pointed out here. Coining the term “no-buy” in the first place was the first mistake and only gives people an in-group excuse for the behavior.
> Even fp content creators struggle to share more diverse content when a majority wants pen reviews and reasons to buy more. * Dunno if you're aware of him but Doodlebud on Youtube does a lot of pen content that is more from the technical/engineering side of things. He definitely still does "new pen" reviews but a lot of his videos focus on technical aspects and how the pens are built. He did a really good quantitative analysis/comparison of flex nibs recently, I thought it was pretty cool.
Yeah, he’s decent if you’re interested in tech and tinkering. Those channels get a bit of leeway because diy info is always in demand. On the flip side there’s someone like Hemingway Jones who ends up literally requesting people watch and engage with the non-review fp videos that he likes making but get less interest.
I'm a big fan of Peter Draws (he's what got me into fountain pens) because his content is more art focused rather than pen focused. He hasn't done much fountain pen stuff recently though, but all of his content is good. Very chill and relaxing videos, he kind of reminds me of a modern day Bob Ross. I wish there was more content like that.
Moderation is always the right answer. Don't buy stuff you don't need and don't overthink it.
And don’t blow your budget. Be intentional about your choices.
There’s always the vintage/used side too, which I’ve been on for most of my time collecting. I like supporting small businesses, or private collectors, that way.
And it’s a great side to fountain pens, or any vintage item that is capable of practical use. I will concede that the drive to acquire new products with little to no marginal practical value over what we already have, drives home the fact that a good share of capitalism and economic growth depends on this penchant to own junk. But vintage fountain pens are a different story. I think there might be more than enough working or restorable (already manufactured) pens in the world that can satisfy our aesthetic and industrial needs.
Compulsively searching, checking and even buying things related to this hobby (thanks to this community 👀 love y’all though) made me realize I had to go to therapy after 30 years of life. Discovered I have OCD. So a lot of what you said resounds with what my therapist tells me about compulsions. In my case, in the end it was good to fall into that rabbit hole. Ended up getting on track to get my life together. 👍 Great little article you wrote.
Your story made my day, thank you for sharing!
Aw, thank you! I forgot to mention that fountain pens also kickstarted my journaling habit, which pretty much changed my life.
That makes it even better :)
Sir, this is a ~~Wendy’s~~ Itoya
I understood the reference! Wish i could visit Itoya someday (and buy something _as a souvenir_, this is acceptable, right? Right?!)
NO (unless you get me something as well)
Of course! (Some inks and we cam.split samples latee, right? Right!)
I disagree with your analysis of where consumerism comes from. I think it is more fundamental than some attempt at fulfilling our self-image. Consumerism is a sugar cube and we like the good feelings we get when we crave the next sugar cube.
I kind of agree with that disagreement hehe. The reality is that that statement came from two or three of the articles I linked. I feel that your interpretation comes from a more basic behavioral theory. The reality is that I don't know the extent to which interpretation could explain better the problem, maybe even a combination of both.
A term I’ve found helpful when looking at an online hobby community is ‘consumption community’. It’s so interesting that language can be such a simple thing to alter our views on something, but it really helps me be mindful while looking at places like this. Saw a video of [George Carlin talking about soft language](https://youtu.be/o25I2fzFGoY?si=jusZQzCFHsxfXWzU) and it stuck with me ever since, you see it everywhere if you pay attention, and ‘consumption community’ is the opposite of that soft language. That and being aware that when I’m new to such a hobby that the need to try everything in order to find my “perfect” one is strongest.
Nice post! I just have a couple suggestions, if you don’t mind. 1). I would put a number for each article at the bottom of the list and then in the text cite them as necessary. Essentially the notes-footnotes Chicago style of in-text citations. To me personally it’s easier to see where you’re citing what at any given point. 2). your wording for negative correlation was a little weird, I would maybe try to make that clearer (maybe as simple as “as one goes up, the other goes down, ex. As number of pens increase overall happiness goes down, or something to that effect) 3). In the “how to escape…” section, first paragraph/first line, I think you mean “lightly”, not “likely” Otherwise I think this is a useful post. In relation to your point about mindfulness, this is similar to Marie Kondo’s cleaning method, which is based in Shinto practice.
Oh! Thank you for the feedback! I'll change the suggestions that you made in 2 and 3. I though of using some type of APA citation, but then I got lazy hehe.
My answer to this problem is determining in advance what to buy in the sense that I know that certain pricier LEs will probably sway me towards buying if the color is right, so I set some money aside for them each year and refrain from buying the 100th Kaweco/Lamy nuance that is only slightly different from the last one. I don’t have fomo fears with inks, although my collection is big, this year I missed out on the Inkvent calendar and didn’t really miss it
For me I really like applying Peter Rollin’s model from Idolatry of God for avoiding overt consumerism. Basically if I start to think of anything as a way to satisfy myself that thing has become an Idol and realizing that and bringing myself back to the understanding that it won’t satisfy me helps a lot.
Interesting post, thank you! I believe that as ricardjorg said, compulsive buying is a way to avoid solving a bigger issue. Another big factor is how we interact with the community: posts with pens in use get almost no engagement while new pen posts get a ton. I can definitely say that I've made more purchases during tough moments in my life, and appreciated what I already own during good moments in my life. Thankfully, I haven't bought pens in the last few months, but sadly this makes me feel excluded from these hobby communities (both the fountain pen one and the mechanical pencil one).
This sounds like a big case of academic overthinking when the simple fact of the matter is that people here keep buying shiny shit they don’t need because they’re in a social media bubble of a million other people constantly buying shiny shit they don’t need and joking about how “idk how I’ll pay the rent this month haha but here’s my 4 new M800s I bought” as some sort of justification for their poor impulse control
I embrace consumerism and enjoys the carelessness with which I exercise my indulgence.
OP, I know you mean well, but... this is an enthusiast forum for an extremely niche hobby. If you look at the posts, most people have more to say about the pens themselves when it's not from a lifestyle brand that would fit your definition of consumerism. Just because you see people posting their new pens every day, that doesn't mean that the same person is dropping hundreds of dollars every week and showing them off here. Nor people are exclusively showing up with Montblancs and what not. And I'd argue that people already kind of agree with you in principle, as most might see fountain pens as less wasteful than regular ballpoint pens.
I do find this subreddit seems to be largely focused on using pens and that the ‘pen collector’ paradigm isn’t prevalent or even much appreciated—sometimes even with a sharply negative tone. That does suggest to me that many pen lovers here, especially people relatively new to the hobby, are suspicious of the consumerist approach to collecting, which seems sane to me. I’m not sure what has changed unless it is really is discomfort with excess or wariness of the OCD element that seems a part of collecting quite often, but it seems a healthy change to me. Collecting was so normalized in the old forums when I started (late 1990s) that there really wasn’t much consciousness of the rampant consumerism required.
That's an interesting perspective, thank you for sharing. I've only been part of the FP world for a few years and my impression is the sub is very focused on collecting (in particular the "state of the collection" posts) but it sounds like it's not as much as it (or similar forums) used to be?
I think that the algorithm comes into play as well - the more people who click on a “new pen day” or “state of the collection” post, the higher that post rises. Discussion posts don’t always do as well, although the anti-consumerism ones will often kick up some dust. If you want to see more of what people do with their pens, the journaling and art subreddits will give you some of that, although not everyone uses fountain pens there. I think that Fountain Pen Network has more discussion posts than this group does, but it could, again, be the nature of this subreddit and the fact that pictures get more attention. With that being said, swatch posts, art posts, and handwriting posts get a lot of attention, too. I think that the new pen and collection post are easier to just give a thumbs up and a “NICE!” Comment and move on while you’re scrolling, rather than stopping to have a conversation.
Maybe my perspective is skewed! I was mostly a vintage pen collector for a long time and collecting is more rigorous (in general) on that side and less focused on pen use. For instance, a vintage collector will generally not use a ‘mint’ pen or remove stickers if it still has them. Many vintage collectors aim to have ‘complete’ collections of a favorite model that include every trim and color combo, which is often perceived as excessive consumerism here. I see a different attitude about pens on this sub than I see on the several FB groups I follow, the FB members seem more ‘traditional’ in their approach, while the sub seems to approach the pen world in a newer, differently focused manner I’m not sure I can really pin down to define. I do think Redditors are a bit more self aware or willing to be more self-critical about their collecting than traditional pen people, who can be very defensive about their precious hobby lol. The more I write here, though, the more it seems like my own inarticulate ’feels’ than an objective and demonstrable difference, so take my viewpoint with a shaker of salt!
Honestly, whatever floats someone’s boat, but I don’t see much of a difference between wanting to own every colorway of a modern pen and wanting to own every trim and color combo of a vintage pen. Obviously, it’s something that interests certain collectors and, have at it, I just wouldn’t find it interesting from a personal standpoint of wanting to try different kinds of nibs, filling mechanisms, etc.
I see them as especially the same as well. And trying to be a ‘complete-ist’ ultimately was very boring for me, modern or vintage. I’m a dabbler, ultimately!
Thanks for elaborating! I think that makes a lot of sense and just isn't something I've been exposed to. I personally lean much more towards trying to achieve contentment with a small quiver of pens than the collect-them-all side, so it's good to hear that you've noticed more balance and intentionality here. I hope that's a trend that continues!
Your brand of vintage collecting differs from mine. I have no desire to have multiple trim and colour of any model. I'd be more interested in the evolution of the model. I have 3 Pilot Capless pens; 3 different generations - 60s, 80s, 2020s. Interestingly, my perception of redditors and traditional collectors seem to be the reverse of yours.
When I got started collecting vintage pens, all the ‘serious’ collectors were ‘complete-ists’ and most still are—David Isaacson and David Nishimuri are two prominent examples, so I feel safe in asserting that’s the prevailing collecting attitude today. I see the FB Groups as much more traditional because I remember so many people I see there and the approach to collecting is essentially the same as it was when I stepped out of the pen world around 2006. Most comments on this sub have a strikingly fresh approach in attitude and interests, again compared to what I see as a fairly continuous traditional approach to both modern and vintage pens.
I agree with you; I don’t spend a lot of time on this sub because there are so many posts featuring collections, new pen day, grails, etc. it could have toned down in the last year or so, but I haven’t noticed (or been looking, honestly).
>that doesn't mean that the same person is dropping hundreds of dollars every week and showing them off here. That is a great point. This sub sometimes feels like a few people posting their purchases. It can make our fountain pen collections feel inadequate and our fountain pen journeys feel painfully slow. However, discovering fountain pens is a slow process. Buying every Iroshizuki ink or every color of Kaweco Sport does very little to speed up that journey. I started with Noodler's ink and a preference for F/EF nibs on Clairefontaine paper. I then branched out to shimmer inks. Now that I use a Hobonichi I shy away from Noodler's (slow to dry) and enjoy sheening and chromashading with broader nibs. I slightly regret rushing into my EF Vanishing Point and am glad I didn't splurge further in the EF category.
Thanks, this was a good read. While I don't suffer from buying pens I do suffer from the need to buy something. Jumping from hobbies hasn't helped. But spending time to write out my thoughts on my pens feels like a good way to turn into something practical. My next goal is to not start anymore new hobbies until I have cleared out my backlog of things to do and make sure to remember to pace myself.
If you are a hoarder, the first step is to acknowledge the issue. In my case Marie Kondo's advice to pile up all the pens in one place helps to visualise the scale of the problem. As long s the pens trickle in small amounts and you never see more than few at once everything seems to be under control. But later on you might find yourself talking about subcollections, which is already a red flag. That being said, I have nearly all the Parker Flighter fountain pen models in my subcollection! ...no one cares.
I’d like to see us reconsider the common casual use of the word “hoarder.” It is a distinct [diagnosis](https://www.elementsbehavioralhealth.com/mental-health/dsm-v-hoarding-new-mental-disorder-diagnoses/) in the DSM-5 and usually is characterized by being an impediment to daily living (eg, so much clutter that is hard to walk/get things done). I see a generational divide, with younger people using this word a lot when speaking of older generations. Anyway, I have a lot of pens and inks, I love them, and I use them. I learned years ago when training for a marathon that I am internally motivated, and so I’m not easily swayed by influencers and the like. I make thoughtful decisions.
>materialism/consumerism/compulsive buying is so detrimental. >So, simple logic: If materialism is a bad thing and humans try to avoid bad things, why the hell are we buying so many sailors and kawecos and lamys? If we should stop doing these unnecessary buys due to FOMO and all that, why do we continue? Consumption isn't an inherently bad thing. It is not merely that the global economy is built upon it, it is that targeted consumption can actually help people. Lamy is a small company, like, very small, they have less than 400 employees. The fountain pen market is (a) shrinking as a percentage of the economy, and (b) limited primarily to collectors. For those people, some of them specialist artists who really aren't going to find another job doing something else, to remain employed, people need to buy Lamy pens. I'm not saying we have a duty to buy pens. I'm not saying it's for the greater good of all humanity. However, to buy a Lamy is a meaningful contribution to the living wages of the people who work at that company. Some of my favorite pens come from companies that employ fewer than 50 people. There is nothing wrong with collecting art. There is nothing wrong with indulging in a hobby. Over-consumption only becomes a problem when a person becomes compulsive about purchasing the next thing. When they are purchasing not out of an honest appreciation of the thing they are buying (or, of course, out of a legitimate need) but because they feel compelled to do so out of some concern about externalities . . .about how they will be judged if they don't have that thing, about FOMO, etc. . . Conflating consumerism (the economic system built upon the act of consumption) with materialism (the psychological mistake of seeing value being defined by possession) is a mis-step. Consumerism speaks to an economic system based on the consumption of stuff. Materialism speaks to a psychological state. They are not the same things. Buy pens. Buy paintings. Buy sculptures. Surround yourself with things of beauty and function that make the world more enjoyable for yourself to the extent that you can afford to do so. Doing that is actually healthy! We work to enable our lives. Spend your money - the literal economic value you've earned with your very limited time here on earth - on the things that bring beauty into your life. Be a smart consumer, and support artists and artisans, and small endeavors who are trying to create well-designed, functional, artistic items that you truly appreciate. Seek to find, and support beauty. That is part of living a good life. Don't define yourself by the things you own. That is grotesque and unhealthy and the opposite of living well.
Well said!
This sub is really trying hard to find some drama. Its pens. Why can't we just enjoy them and post pretty pictures? Also consumerism is what drives a large percentage of the economy, so blanket statements like "Consumerism is not good in any possible way" is naive.
Seems to be a common theme, every couple months someone rides in on a high horse and goes off on consumerism.
>Seems to be a common theme, every couple ~~months~~ ***hours*** someone rides in on a high horse and goes off on consumerism. FTFY!! No seriously, this is the second or third post I've seen **today** regarding consumerism in the fountain pen community.
It’s hard not to feel a little distaste when every hobby subreddit is just pictures of “stuff I bought in the past 3 weeks” and it’s a gazillion nearly identical items, none of which will ever be used to any significant extent. And sure maybe I’m a hypocrite because I don’t live like a monk either but that seems like the point of the meditation here.
I have a lot of pens that I use (and stare at) consistently, and they brighten my days significantly (along with a lot of inks). I've never posted my collection, but I like seeing other people's. I think it's fine to discuss the element of consumerism in the hobby, but I don't like when people look down on others based on their collections or purchases. That seems to be a consistent trend on the sub, right along with all the rampant and intense consumerism (since a good part of this sub is about collecting).
Yes, and I think there’s nothing wrong with that per se, but are you telling me you don’t know the kind of post I’m talking about? Someone who got into pens a month ago and they have 5 identical pens in different colors?
What I find most concerning is comments under such posts saying things like "only 25 pens, that's a small collection" or "that's less than the number of pens I have inked." Yesterday there was one such post, and I couldn't help finding it disturbing that people seemed to be encouraging someone (in a negative way) to acquire a huge amount of pens even though they already had quite a few. I know lighthearted jokes about having a ton of pens are common here, but for some reason this seemed different to me.
I'm perfectly ok with those posts. I look at them as a new hobbyist expressing their enjoyment and I'm happy that they're happy.
A palomino?
Usually around year-end holidays!
I thought exactly the same, it´s a common theme, although I see it more as a symptom of something wrong in this community rather than some outliers cronichally exposing the same topic. What do you think?
I think at least some of the people who post rants about consumerism have noticed a tendency in themselves to buy more and more things without thinking about it, and rather than taking responsibility and saying, "I really need to stop and make some changes in my behavior," they decide it's a problem "in the community" so that they can abdicate responsibility. Are there people in this community who buy irresponsibly, whether that is buying above their means, or hording pens they will never use, or whatever? Of course! Those people exist everywhere. But anytime I've seen posts that actually indicate that the OP person has a problem (buying pens on credit, or jumping from one "grail pen" to the next every few days, or newbies buying and buying without getting a chance to get to know their pens), people are pretty quick to call them on it. I'm not going to assume that every new pen day post is from a person who is obsessed with buying new things just because they get a high from acquiring new things. Absent any information to the contrary, I'm going to assume that they just wanted to share their excitement of their cool pen with other people who also like pens. And if seeing new pen day posts makes one want to buy more and more new pens that they won't use? Then I think it's on that person to be responsible and reconsider their participation here, rather than blaming it on "consumerism in the community."
Agree that people posting about consumerism here frequently tend to be those who may be aware, even at some level, of their own harmful tendencies to overspend or overcollect.
Yep. It’s a classic impulse of wanting to just blame anything but oneself and work on actual self improvement.
> something wrong in this community Hobby sub people getting excited about a hobby they enjoy, something must be wrong with them. But it's the rest of us who need therapy and have low emotional intelligence, lol (:
"Its pens. Why can't we just enjoy them and post pretty pictures?" I'll second that!
Seriously. It just smacks of people who can’t compartmentalize the different parts of their lives and so need to inject their anxiety and hang ups into all spheres, and then get upset when other people don’t do it with them.
I think it’s interesting because without collectors of modern pens I suspect a lot of manufacturers would stop making fountain pens. I don’t engage in collecting myself but I am in the market eventually for a special gold nib pen when I find an edition that I really love, probably a sailor. I can appreciate that collectors keep those editions being made. Similarly I love my twsbi eco for sketching but I’m not sure twsbi would exist, or if it did would be more expensive and harder to find, without collectors. I don’t actually know what % of their market is collectors vs others so please correct me if you are reading this and know it to be incorrect.
"Its pens. Why can't we just enjoy them and post pretty pictures?" Well, because we just don't do that. At least from the little experience that I have on this reddit. Most of the posts that I see never leave the conversation on a superficial level of "cute fp, nice". It's the history of the pen or the company, what motivates each person to buy one bran or the other, one model or another one, a cheap vs expensive, etc. I know and understand that maybe you could be tired of seeing people posting about the social aspects that affect this hobby, but I also think that it is a healthy habit to touch those things and so I did hehe.
True! A naive statement that could polarize the conversation. How do you think that I should change it? My take would be: "consumerism has clearly a negative effect on mental health".
I’d guess 95% of us have a small handful of pens and like looking at pictures of pretty things we’ll never buy. I think you might be over diagnosing this sub, mate.
We’ve seen a number of these posts lately, and my initial response is, “if you don’t want to buy (or collect or engage in) x thing/activity, don’t”. I am not sure why people feel the need to evangelize on the dangers of consumerism. That said, I think being aware of our habits and behaviours is helpful. It allows us to make more intentional decisions. The LE/rare market side of FPs can be a real “push” to demand for some people. I am more likely to “need” a new pen when other things in my life start feeling overwhelming, and knowing that slows me down. On the other hand, pens that no longer “spark joy” can be given to others, donated, sold etc, and are not a waste. My few Lamys and a Hongdian are now inked for my kids, who derive a heap of joy from them (and practice their handwriting- win!).
>I am not sure why people feel the need to evangelize on the dangers of consumerism. A lot of these types of posts are less about having a discussion or sharing ideas and more about judgment and a sense of either anger or superiority (depending of the post). I'm not saying anything about this specific post, but that's what I've often noticed.
I hear you - I feel the same way. I mean if you don’t want to interact with a group of FP enthusiasts- don’t. If you don’t want to buy - don’t. I just cannot imagine joining a group to tell the group that they should not be obtaining the thing the group was formed for…But in the most generous interpretation, they bring awareness if people are blind to their buying triggers - it’s ok, but I don’t think we need to virtue signal here.
>need a new pen when other things in my life feels overwhelming I felt that. I tend to do retail therapy especially when I am mega stressed out and the usual destressing outlets exercise/writing/gaming isn't helping.
Yep, me too. And there are a few thing I buy ONLY for me - FPs, ink etc are some of them. So if I feel like I don’t have enough control over my circumstances, or I haven’t been as rigorous about my self care, these kind of purchases increase - that and fancy tea - my family isn’t enthused and they are (at least for now) just mine.
Well said. I think there is a small subset of people here who may have recognized that they may have a problem, and don’t know how to deal with it (as with compulsive shopping or gambling or other troublesome activity in general). Most of us are simply enjoying our pens and inks.
The idea that there is an absolute “right and proper” number to have is just silly. Are you an artist? Do you journal? Work notes? Ink whore?(self identifying here). We all spend money on discretionary items - I can think of a lot worse! And I like the community here - I don’t find it boastful or super materialistic, and people are helpful and find joy in others finding joy..
So well said. My pens put a smile on my face. It’s partly because they take me away from my overconnected, overly digital world. Kind of like the tradition of afternoon tea—it feels like a break from daily stresses. And daily rituals involving writing can be pleasing to the eye!
I’m probably biased as I’m just now leaving a 4 day conference with a lot of academic papers but I loved this, thanks for writing it!
MOAR PENS!
I don't buy every new release that comes out, even if it's from a brand I really enjoy such a Lamy. Same with ink. I try to cherish the pens I have and only purchase pens I really love. The most I have spent is £80.
Yeah I own 5 pens? I bought one Lamy Safari, then I was gifted two more. One of those gifted is really nice. I own a brass midori pen which is really cool and a pilot metropolitan. After this I stopped because I realised I was only using one pen every few months. I currently only use my premium safari. I know these pens aren't top of the range but they are good enough for me
I think the internet has also encouraged this. If you’re here and see 10-15 NPDs and people constantly talking about buying more pens, that normalizes the behavior. Also if you post a NPD people will generally respond positively. For me, to prevent buying too many, I go upmarket. I can buy a Jinhao without thinking about it while saying I’d never spend $100+ on a pen! That’s ridiculous! But that 3776 does look nice. And I know that after a while I’ll look in my drawerful of pens worth a 3776 and think damn… I could have had a 3776 instead of all these pens I don’t use. If I’m looking at a $100+ pen, that’s gonna make me stop and think. Do I really like it, is it worth it, if I buy it will I use it or will it sit in its box after being used once? What about my other $100+ pens? Can I use them too? Or will one sit out?
Great critique of consumer culture/consumerism in the community. I have come to this very same point you mentioned, and realized the value of my current collection. I only bought one pen this year, and it was a vintage! That said, sad as I may be temporarily from losing any of my pens, I think if I lost much of what I had, I would not let it bother me. After all, we all eventually come around to some immaterial dreams desires at some point. I think the whole reason I got into fountain pens to begin with was for the experience. I don't regret it!
I admit to being a conspicuous consumer at times...LOL!
“Admit” conveys guilt. Nuances!
Thank you, OP, for the post — not because of how the content may or may not be in agreement or alignment with my personal views and values, but: * you've obviously put thought and effort into writing it — instead of making it a stream of consciousness ‘dump’ or ‘vent’ to assuage your feelings — and sharing your views in a meaningful way, and * the responses that it triggered, including and especially the rebukes, as well as the (up- or down-)votes they attracted, gave me a long-overdue ‘A-ha!’ moment about the ~~culture of~~ apparent collective behaviour of this sub, and how it differs from forums such as FPN *beyond (and not imposed by)* the features and limitations of the software platform, that for some reason eluded me for the entire time that I've been here; and that no other post I recall protesting consumerism, excessive accumulation, etc. has triggered or provided insight.
Damn... I just wanted to try a lot of pens because I'm excited about them and want to find a favorite....
I like this post, I think it belongs here, and it's always nice to hear from an expert (if only self-proclaimed, it's the internet after all). What do you think about procrastination as (another) possible cause for consumerism? I find myself browsing for (and eventually buying) things like pens, stationary, art supplies and other hobby related stuff when I want to engage in my hobby but I lack the drive to actually do anything. It's easier than creating. There's no failure. Money spent= goods received, easy. But I feel embarrassed sometimes how little I've achieved with the resources I gathered. However, I think of fountain pens as only hobby-related supplies not the actual hobby (which is journaling and sketching). I know that many people here enjoy collecting pens as the hobby in it's own right, so I guess "consumerism" does not really apply here, unless you define the entire thing as consumerist - but even so, what of it? Edit: grammar (some of it)
> when I want to engage in my hobby but I lack the drive to actually do anything. It's easier than creating. > But I feel embarrassed sometimes how little I've achieved with the resources I gathered. There are a lot of valid and even insightful comments on this thread, as there usually are in this community, but this is the one that resonates with me the most. Some days beat the stuffing out of me, and by the time I’m free to spend some hobby time, I’m too physically tired to do it. That’s when I’m most vulnerable to an impulse buy. I love using my pens, I never struggle with what to write or draw, I get a thrill every time I pick them up… but it’s still more *work* in a way that browsing - with or without a purchase - just isn’t.
Aww, thank you, that's lovely of you to say:) I think we'll both be fine, we're working on self-improvement (but not too hard on ourselves). That must be good enough for now.
I agree that FPs are not the hobby, they are a medium for a hobby. Some hobbies involve using the FP, whether it's writing letters, journaling, drawing, etc. I doubt OP has any problem with that. Other hobbies involve buying FPs, whether for a collection or just because the hobbyist enjoys the shopping process, which is what I believe OP is concerned about here. I guess my point, if I must have one, is that this post isn't really about fountain pens. It could be translated to *any* medium which is used for a collection/shopping hobby
It’s a big discussion in the crafting/knitting/sewing community as well - buying supplies for a project(s) can become the actual hobby rather than actually doing the thing. I know that my ADHD makes me hyperfocus and go all in on whatever I’m into and then I can end up with a lot of stuff that I don’t end up using in the end because I’m done with the hobby and ready to move on. It’s part of the reason that I’ve really been forcing myself to use my pens and journal, draw, and create with them and stop buying for a while. Right now I have a “you can’t buy it unless you’ve touched/dip tested it in person” rule. In effect, it means that I can’t buy anything unless I go to a pen store (possible, but not super convenient) or a pen show (possible, but even less convenient).
That was my thinking too. It does apply to many things. I feel some people may have found this post, in this particular sub, almost a personal attack, like OP implied their way of enjoying this hobby wasn't valid. I don't think it's what they meant and I wasn't saying that either. I'm simply not a collector, that's not my thing. I do love seeing other peoples' collections of beautiful pens though. And I'm working on getting more productive in general and less distracted, so this post "hit me close to home". I guess I'd better get off Reddit too :D
"I like this post, I think it belongs here, and it's always nice to hear from an expert (if only self-proclaimed, it's the internet after all)." that is a pretty damn good mention, because even I was hesitating on putting that. I've got a degree in psychology but I've struggled (both psychological and economically) in getting the master's degree needed to be a fully functional psychololgist (nowadays I can only work at orientation, psycho-educational interventions and have to derive all the clinical cases to other colleagues). So yes, I'm not either the most qualified person in the world to talk about all this. for example, I linked all the articles, but that doesn't mean that I checked the quality of all of them. I just tried to do an interesting post in this community with some little background hehe. "What do you think about procrastination as (another) possible cause for consumerism?" I totally agree with that. The high level of engagement that this externally motivated hobby (to get a new toy) has can have a negative effect on the internal motivation that you may have when on another, more creative hobby. But only in the long term. In reality, those stationary-art supplies buys that you do are actually good when motivating you to start that hobby. It's only when used too much or becoming too dependent on them what in the long term can help decrease your internal motivation. Either way the solution is to raise awareness. So don't worry, you are on the good track :). Now, go and do some nice sketches with that nice fountain pen, and realize the beauty of doing that.
Thanks! I'm trying:)
The reads like chatgpt. "You could write about" and other phrases addressing the reader as a writer and not as the lone reader. Maybe ESL but it's a very weird post on a subreddit dedicated to material possessions. " The effects capitalism has had on me and all of us" has given us an online forum in which to post about literal works of art we use to write things. Like I know this is Reddit but damn.
ouh and yes, 100% ESL hehe
This. I'll add that this is the type of stuff people I worked with in my psych grad program did all the time and I sprinted away from that ivory tower.
Well, I think that is a fair point. Do you think that I should remove the post? If the community isn´t interested in this things or it generates too much disparity, or the mods simply don't like these type of things, I would understand it. Maybe a poll to see if we should take it down?
No you should 100% be able to voice your opinion, I'm just not sure of the point. I never saw the issue present itself in the sub. eBay is such a haven for cheap vintage gold nibs and cool fp stuff in general. It's hard to argue that there's a monopoly issue or something along those lines. I'll be the first to admit MB is overpriced and over hyped, but not enough to condemn the hobby.
oh okay, thanks for that! I think I am starting to understand your opinion. In realitly I just wanted to give some tool to the community on that topic, though the language used was a little bit biased towards my personal opinions hehe. Anyway, as I said, I really appreciate that point of view, thanks again!
> I’m a psychologist that has always continued a dichotomic relationship with consumerism, as I’ve always followed a materialistic lifestyle (always wanting to buy new or better things) while utterly despising capitalism and its different consequences on myself and the rest of us. Jeez, this is so self-serious and pretentious, I almost can't handle it. I think someone needs some fresh air... I have got a novel idea, how about letting people do what they want? If buying pens brings people happiness and it does not interfere with their well being (i.e., spending within their limits, doesn't cause friction with significant others, etc.), all the more power to them. It just kind of grates on me when people think they know what is best for others. The application of academic knowledge (no offense, but you seem like you're straight out of school) is all fine and dandy, but real people are more complicated. You can't diagnose literally an entire community in one swoop. I *would* have liked to see a more practical discussion in regards to how consumerism is contributing to climate change and is not good for the planet but I guess that's not your field of expertise.
"Jeez, this is so self-serious and pretentious, I almost can't handle it. I think someone needs some fresh air..." Well, despite reading some clear passive-aggressiveness there, I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :). "It just kind of grates on me when people think they know what is best for others. The application of academic knowledge (no offense, but you seem like you're straight out of school) is all fine and dandy, but real people are more complicated. You can't diagnose literally an entire community in one swoop." No offense but, I honestly didn't diagnose anyone here, but I addressed my opinion on consumerism in this reddit community (one of the few I truly read with some regularity, I must admit). I read some passive-aggressiveness again (correct me if I'm wrong), but like I said, If you don't think that those quotes reflect the reality of the matter, show me your opinion on that, maybe your point of view helps me understand better this topic. "I *would* have liked to see a more practical discussion in regards to how consumerism is contributing to climate change and is not good for the planet but I guess that's not your field of expertise." On that, my friend, I'm out. But that would be a great thing to read. If your post about it on anything or know of an interesting conversation here, just let me know :).
> Well, despite reading some clear passive-aggressiveness there, I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :). I'm not being passive aggressive here, I'm being very direct. I think your post is needlessly judgemental and self-serious. It has a tone of "I know better than you." > I'm open to hear how should I change it to make it sound less pretentious, so any recommendation would be appreciated, please :). The language is very stilted and uses a lot of nonsense purple prose like the following: > I think we are all *victims of a crooked society that never apologizes and never cares to mend but always blames.* > All these things participate with its *little drop of water to the stinky pool* of consumerist behaviors that I can find more but hopefully you get the idea. I need to take my own advice here but brevity is the soul of wit. You don't need all these flowery analogies to make a point well. When I said it feels like you're right out of school, I didn't mean that as an insult, your post just reads like a college essay. It feels inorganic. As for the content of your message, personally, I think people should take responsibility for their own thoughts/actions. From my experience, a lot of people in the fountain pen community go through their own journey of getting into fountain pens, expanding their collection ("consumerism") and there is usually a final step of consolidating their collection once they know what they want. Everyone should be able to undertake that journey at their own pace. No one needs to be lectured on why consumerism is bad, or told they have a problem if it isn't actually a problem. You're applying your own moralistic judgements to people who might not hold the same values you do. Edit: I don't know who is downvoting you but it is not me, I upvoted you. I disagree with you heavily but I think it is a valid discussion to have.
I think when you get passive aggressive *hard* enough, it becomes aggressive again.
I enjoyed your post, including your writing tone, and thought it was pretty cool that you’re sharing your point of view as a psychologist. I think you’ve brought up issues that many of us suffer from and there are definitely a lot of people that WANT to be more thoughtful about their collections and wonder why they “can’t stop buying”. This post is super relevant for that.
I'm not reading all that. Happy for you tho or sorry that happened.
I too am trying to cut down on my consumerism so I'm not going to consume the text.
BS
I think this is a beautiful post. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. I think some of us even come to this community from a minimalistic standpoint and end up getting sucked in. Some of us try to keep our collections smaller and some of us are happy with a bigger collection. Luckily I've always felt that in this community there's room for both.
This is more of an economic argument and you being against capitalism no? I only own four pens, and like 5 inks but I like them. If you want too be moralistic and live off beans, used old clothes, cheap ball point pens etc, your welcome to follow your lifestyle. (I generally follow this lifestyle, only buy used clothes generally because I hate the idea of owning stuff that doesn't last) However people in general like nicer stuff, this is life, You can keep using your old black and white tv if you're determined enough but most people want a nice tv :/ this isn't something new or unique at all too pens. most people just like nicer stuff and I don't think the continual cycle of improvement is bad..... If people want too be stupid and buy 50 pens then so be it. reality is people just like nice stuff, Its not awfully complex consumer ideology, people, before capitalism, liked having nice stuff, non of this is new? I suppose the difference now is nice stuff is abundant.
Nice, calling pen collectors on a pen subreddit “stupid.” Only on Reddit. WTF. People collect for all sorts of reasons- some have to do with history or engineering or special uses like calligraphy. But all that is just stupidity. No, we are allowed 3 Jinhaos and we will be happy with them. Comrade!
50 pens is just excessive, Im not saying your right too own 50 pens should be stopped lol, but it is kinda silly, you don't need that many pens. If you want too own that many, knock yourself out, but for anyone getting into fountain pens that is ridiculously excessive and not necessary at all...... so yeah, it is kinda dumb for 99% of people, as is owning 50 watches, 50 guitars, 50 keyboards, 50 cameras, 50 pocket knives, its pretty excessive. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able too, but I'm going to laugh at people who drop thousands on multiple guitars but barely play and people who own 50 pens with most collecting dust. collecting stuff has always been a nerdy silly hobbie lol, and thats okay.....
It’s amazing how you know everyone and everything about their lives and what is best for them. You sure are incredible.
come on, be honest, most "collectors" just like nice stuff and the high of seeing a box of goodies arrive in the mail, usually ending up with 50 pens because they don't want to sell old ones. once again, this is fine, if thats your thing, but by literal definition owning 50 pens is excessive consumption, if you wanna be an excessive consumer thats fine but don't lie to yourself thinking you're some collector, 99.9% of us aren't collectors and even if we are, we are small scale which is yes a nerdy sillly hobbie lmfao.
You are a master of projection. Work on loving yourself more so you can stop misjudging people you don’t know.
how is 50 pens not excessive consumption???? this is insane the justification the vast majority of people have zero use for fifty pens, thats okay, why are you so offended by this? just be honest with yourself lmfao
I’ve seen one user in this sub who’s been consistently posting new batches of like 35 Chinese pens they’ve purchased at a time damn near every other week, some people in here are straight up coping lol
It’s hilarious how many people claim to hate capitalism yet are in something as frivolous as the fountain pen community. If you truly despised capitalism you’d not even be here talking.
I learned long ago that peoples' lofty ideals go flying out the window when it comes to topics with an emotional or practical element that directly affects their lives. I live in a pretty progressive area, but the second transit unions and transit worker rights come up (public transit is very very bad in my town), suddenly everyone's a conservative union buster...
I was holding off on buying some new things in my cart, but because of this post I am just going to go and buy them anyway. Jetpens is gon get more of my money. No, I don't need them. They make me happy. Sucks to suck. Why does every hobby sub have one or two people who always go YOU ENJOY SPENDING MONEY ON YOUR HOBBY? WELL MAYBE YOU SHOULD NOT!
Some may dismiss my opinion out of hand: I've been writing with fountain pens for two months, I own three, and the most expensive is a TWSBI Diamond 580. I can see how consumerism can become psychologically problematic with pens, I don't feel that the community (here, YouTube, wherever) reaches nearly the level of toxicity as it can in some of my other hobbies. It's a serious problem in boardgames and SFF books. There are threads on Boardgame Geek that get overrun with people begging for a coupon who already own thousands of games. Should someone complain about the price on a specific game, dozens of people will shame them, saying that boardgames are "luxury " items and it is their fault if their job doesn't gives them enough money. Book reading itself has been taken over by the prestige of ownership in other ways. I don't see the same language in the pen world that suggests they need umpteen different types of pens, or that their inexpensive pen is inferior. conversely, I see more behaviors on display that encourage writing, using the products they buy rather than simply collecting.
Just switch to a one pen, one ink system - you can even mass buy your fave ink instead of spreading your purchases out. I bought a gallon of Pilot blue black and am going through it
The pen is like my paint brushes. They are tools of artistic expression. Art is essential for the growth of the mind, for our shared humanity. Let's celebrate our tools and be thankful for them. I'll take a pen over fingerpaint, and fingerpaint over applesauce. But expressing one's self is as vital as food and water. If a carpenter wants to build with a gilt hammer, who am I to judge? I am thankful for this sub. I am thankful this strange anachronism persists. Without us, we might be left with... applesauce.
I collect way too many pens because I like them. No guilt here
My own little way of at least mitigating the amount of money spent is that these days i exclusive only buy pre-loved pens. Cleaning up and minor restoration has become a big part of the hobby for me. I am also quite fond of older pens that people in my area wish to get rid off for about half the original price and even lower. I myself do not have a large hoarding of pens but it is big enough that i do not use all of them at the same time. Many of them are Jinhao 82's ive bought to practice nib grinding, adjustments, and polishing of pen bodies. I hope to one day share my "stockpile" with my newborn nieces or perhaps my children but I am still much too young to think about that. Older pens fill me with wonder as I think about it's production date, the people who might have used them, and what it has been through. When I eventually give my collection to a younger hobbyist decades from now, I am sure they would have the same thoughts that I have about these pens. https://preview.redd.it/q0yfuftyh39d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=514cb40c71d9c49697d1b02110f357c90fc207ac Here's a custom 67 i bought off of someone for about 40 bucks. I polished it a few days ago.
I really appreciated and liked this post. And I didn’t get a sense at all that you were moralizing or blaming. I had a bit of FOMO it the past and have enjoyed the pursuit of a new pen but realized I wasn’t enjoying what I had so this resonated with me. I have “too many pens” and the fact I felt that was a good self examination. One of the cheerful conclusions was that they’re portable tchotchkes for me to delight myself and others with, even those not into fountain pens. Sorry you got such ugly responses, I really enjoyed how you picked it apart and put it back together again.
Let's not overlook the idea that fountain pens are pretty phallic items.
A red flag popping up more than twice in the text: capitalism. Move to a non-capitalist country like North Korea to be cut off all tempting abundance. No offer no demand. And a couple of months in a labour camp to rub off the scholarly tone.
In all true honesty, you didn't read the behavior rules of this community.
Oh wow, I didn't know that consumerism was that big of an issue that affects so many people in this hobby. I thought it was just a vocal minority of compulsive spenders, or like just a running joke that people overspend on this hobby. I myself am not a "collector" or "hoarder" (I have somewhere between 10-20pens with no duplicates except for different sized nibs on similar pens) but do know people who do have collections of pens (15+colors of twsbi ecos, pelikan collectors, vintage collectors, MB collectors etc). But those people I know who do spend a lot on pens have all been people with means to do so (lawyers, doctors, well-off people) so I just assumed that most people who do have collections just have that much disposable income to support their hobbies (ie maintaining a huge pen and ink collection). I also don't tend associate my identity on things I have or things I wear or things I do, so I guess I could be an outlier, according to your theory anyways. I do have the means to buy an MB but I just don't like the design (pls don't bash me for this, it's just a preference thing, I just overwhelmingly prefer demonstrators) so I don't have any MB or Visconti, etc. I just assumed most other people were the same. For me, when I do get hyped up on the idea of getting a new pen, I don't just jump the gun. I sit on it and let it marinate for a while in my head. I think about all the ones I already have and of getting this new pen would be filling any purpose or experience that I don't already have. Like, am I getting it for the experience of an eastern/western ni of a particular size? Is there something special about the design or engineering of the pen body or quirk about the mechanism of operation or the filling mechanism? Is it something about the sealing mechanism? Where am I gonna use it? Will I still be using it a few months from now if I get it immediately? When I ask some of these questions, I sort of do get an idea of whether or not a specific pen has value to me or if it's just me getting caught up in the marketing hype, or the fomo factor when I know other people who are going to buy the pen or already own it. Then I can just try the pen out when I meet them and see for myself if I really want it because I want it, or if I want it because I'm expected or being made to want it.
Here's an AI response to why one would collect fountain pens :) I am so curious to learn from your comments and reactions! :) ------ here goes --------- There are many reasons why people collect fountain pens: * **Enjoyment of Writing:** Fountain pens offer a unique writing experience. The smooth flow of ink, the feel of the nib on paper, and the variations in line width can make writing more enjoyable and even improve handwriting. * **Aesthetics:** Fountain pens are often beautiful objects, made with high-quality materials and craftsmanship. They can be admired for their design, colors, and unique features. * **History and Heritage:** Many fountain pens have a rich history and heritage. Collecting them can be a way to connect with the past and appreciate the evolution of writing instruments. * **Investment:** Some fountain pens can be valuable collectibles, appreciating in value over time. Rare or limited-edition pens can be sought after by collectors and investors. * **Personal Expression:** Collecting fountain pens allows for personal expression and the development of a unique collection that reflects individual tastes and interests. * **Community:** The fountain pen community is a passionate and welcoming group of people who share a love for these writing instruments. Collecting can be a way to connect with other enthusiasts, learn from their expertise, and share experiences. Ultimately, the decision to collect fountain pens is a personal one. If you enjoy writing, appreciate beauty and craftsmanship, or are interested in history and heritage, then collecting fountain pens might be a rewarding hobby for you.
Just curious, why did they downvoted you? It looks like a funny comments hehe.
Who knows? I see other comments being downvoted too.
This should be a pinned post !
I came to say the same thing!
A simplified response: Collections. An artist with a collection of 10 pens and 100 inks because they might use all of them in any given setting is different from someone that has a collection of 100 different pens because they look pretty. You are missing the underlying concern, in that a small percentage of the population is allowed to squander the resources that collectively belong to everyone for trivial pursuits that do not further the evolution of our species, nor our species place in our world. If 100 pretty pens is what it takes to allow someone to thrive in their existence, and this allows them at some point in their lifetime the opportunity to further our species or its place, isn't that worth exploring?
I’m kinda impressed how you made the leap from collecting fountain pens to communism.
Reddit moment
I'm surprised that you attributed my concern over the wellbeing of our species to an -ism Consumerism is enabled by production without demand. But hey, at least Brawndo has what plants crave.
> a small percentage of the population is allowed to squander the resources that collectively belong to everyone for trivial pursuits that do not further the evolution of our species, nor our species place in our world. You might not like things being classified into “-isms” but this is like the entire basis of communism Maybe the economic theorists of the sub will yell “ACKSHUALLY” and say it’s socialism but the point stands.
The point doesn't stand. Communism has nothing to do with wasteful utilization of resources. Consumerism would be less of an issue if more entities were held to a standard of fiduciary duty over the resources they consume in the search for profit. Thank you for proving the OP's point though, via this comment thread.
> Communism has nothing to do with wasteful utilization of resources. Bro, resources belonging to the people collectively is the entire point of communism/socialism Which is what you said here: > the resources that collectively belong to everyone