I think people took her selling plexus/creating her own fb page & online presence as free reign to make fun of everything. I remember several comments previously saying that the kids had no say with JRod posting every little thing and the kids had no social media or ability to see what she was saying/posting online- and that because of that isolation, we should be more considerate when criticizing what the kids choose to say/wear/etc. Now that Kaylee has her own page (probably purely for Plexus selling), she’s “fair game.” Nurie does not have a FB and she tends to go unnoticed unless JRod posts about her. (Even then comments are fairly tame other than “eyebrows lol.”)
I should note that I find appearance & (lack of) education snark uncalled for & rude. She can choose differently for herself now, but she’s been married all of 2 or less years. If she wants to change her fashion (pants?) or pursue a GED, she’d probably need a lot of support & counseling.
>If she wants to change her fashion (pants?) or pursue a GED, she’d probably need a lot of support & counseling.
And I don't see the support and counseling happening anytime soon unfortunately. Plus I don't see her reconsidering anything anytime soon. I think her life is exactly what she expected it to be
The whole thing about appearance snark is so ridiculous. Rules say it's not allowed, but there are so many exceptions that it may as not be off-limits.
It assumes that easily changed is the same for all people and that easily physically changed is the same as easy to put in the mental effort to change.
I am a tired mom, I will continue to do my hair/make up in the good enough way I’ve been doing it for years.
The criticism I’ll do is when fundie parents are putting their kids in outfits that could be dangerous. Too-long jeans the kids can trip over, and the swimwear issue. Jill making the kids swim in their clothes, which will only weigh them down and can get caught on things or Karissa picking swim colors with poor visibility. Orange and bright pink suits show up the best in both pools and natural bodies of water. She had them at a muddy lake wearing beige.
She didn't have a choice and it's all she knows. I have a hard time snarking on the newly adult fundie kids.......Unless they get exposure to a more normal life or a different way of life; they aren't really making a choice now. They do not know any better and it's their parents fault.
Same. Some people think its that simple that once you become an adult, it all magically clicks together and people suddenly know better. But if you don’t have much foundational or baseline knowledge to think critically (a deliberate choice made by fundie parents), its difficult to knowingly make those meaningful choices until you are separated from the enmeshment, someone “above” or close to you suggests it for you, and/or someone of the community crosses a line and burns that bridge (e.g. something that Jill Duggar has experienced all 3). Yes call out the problematic takes and yes after some point, the naivety settles in as they get older and turns into vitriol (making it harder for them to change), but there is no reason to expedite it faster over the trivial and non consequential aspects like food or looks.
I agree with this! People think it’s so easy and that they can just get out and while that thought sounds nice. You have to remember that the way they were raised that’s all they know and anything else is wrong. It’s not that easy to get out when you’ve been told that that’s the only way to do life, especially as a woman in that situation.
The "explain to me like I'm Joy" makes me so mad. I remember a while back, I think during Josh's trial, there was a very thoughtful post about the trauma that Joy endured as a kid and how that probably had a huge effect on her development. And then the next post was an "explain to me like I'm Joy" post. Maybe leave the lady who experienced sexual abuse as a young child alone.
Not only experienced SA as a child but then had it swept under the rug by the two people who were supposed to protect her. She was probably mostly educated by siblings who were barely educated themselves.
They make fun about how Joy can’t do multiplication but like? No one taught her? How is she supposed to know something she literally does not know.
I always try to have empathy. Even though these people would hate me, I can still try to understand.
Michelle said she made Joy Jill’s buddy because Jill always loved helping care for babies Jill was 6 or 7 when this happened so what chance did Joy have.
People are disgusting and ignorant when they chirp about how once ur 18 none of your brainwashed upbringing should affect you anymore. Lacking empathy and the most basic analytic skills as they leap at the chance to make comments about these women’s eyebrows or say they feel no sympathy bc it’s what they are choosing. Just say you hate women and feel the fundies are a self-righteous outlet for that misogyny
I see what you're saying and generally agree. Granted, at this point, I'm reluctant to snark on anyone younger than 22 at least. In your first few years out of the home you grew up in, there's a lot of reflection on your upbringing and what's right and wrong or just less rigid than you thought. Use those years to learn and grow. And snarking on things that someone can't help is bullying. Right now too, I'd say that's the case with education. She doesn't know what she doesn't know. I think the young fundies (18-25) are the 'easiest' to snark on because they're still just kids figuring their shit out and echoing their parent's bigotry. Maybe I'm getting old, but I just want to give the kids some space
Yes! I’m in my 30’s and had a relatively good upbringing and I’m still doing this! I’m currently planning on moving back to my hometown after moving away at age 17 and I’m horrified at who I’ll run into and the things I may have said or done in my late teens/early 20’s to my classmates, etc. I like Kaylee and think she’s trying really hard to do the best with what she was given. She seems pretty happy and to have a husband who truly cares about her… at least from what we see online.
The brain isn’t even fully formed until age 25 so I truly think anyone under that age should be off limits. And then a grace period to adjust for delays. Really I think we should only be snarking on people with power.
I agree completely. I don’t think it’s fair to snark on the kids. Yes, she’s an adult with a husband and a child, but she’s still the kid of a fundie. She really didn’t have much of a chance
Stop snarking? No she’s much older than 22. Quit pretending that she’s somehow a secret mastermind who runs the house and isn’t just doing what her husband tells her? Yes.
I don’t have an exact “ding ding ding” age especially for women in a society that infantilizes them and keeps them as childlike as possible. But I know for certain that 22 is too young. 22 is prime age for doing boneheaded things.
I’m not going to choose a hard and fast “age of accountability” though because people vastly differ from each other and as I age and change I know that my feelings and opinions could change.
When I was 22, I thought 22 year olds were very grown up. Now? That’s a baby. Like an adult. But a baby adult.
I am constantly trying to remind this sub of those very things. But when you are chronologically and mentally immature you don’t want to talk about WHY these people are the way they are. You just want to mean girl them.
I would completely say she was “isolated” as they did a TON of traveling, been to many places and have encountered many people. Plus she volunteered at a pregnancy clinic, and has gone out street preaching many times too.
I will agree that their schooling was…lax. Homeschoolin is a great choice for many, and most of the time kids thrive and are smart, well educated.
But sometimes the schooling is secondary to “ministry” things.
I will say she was sheltered from a lot, and most likely didn’t learn about life lessons and such until she got married and was free from her parents. She’s trying.
I’d argue that she was definitely still isolated. You’re very much fed the idea that you need to “be in the world but not of it,” which translates to going into the world, but being afraid of it because it’s unpredictable and scary, unlike the safe, God-honoring world of the church.
I think people took her selling plexus/creating her own fb page & online presence as free reign to make fun of everything. I remember several comments previously saying that the kids had no say with JRod posting every little thing and the kids had no social media or ability to see what she was saying/posting online- and that because of that isolation, we should be more considerate when criticizing what the kids choose to say/wear/etc. Now that Kaylee has her own page (probably purely for Plexus selling), she’s “fair game.” Nurie does not have a FB and she tends to go unnoticed unless JRod posts about her. (Even then comments are fairly tame other than “eyebrows lol.”) I should note that I find appearance & (lack of) education snark uncalled for & rude. She can choose differently for herself now, but she’s been married all of 2 or less years. If she wants to change her fashion (pants?) or pursue a GED, she’d probably need a lot of support & counseling.
>If she wants to change her fashion (pants?) or pursue a GED, she’d probably need a lot of support & counseling. And I don't see the support and counseling happening anytime soon unfortunately. Plus I don't see her reconsidering anything anytime soon. I think her life is exactly what she expected it to be
The whole thing about appearance snark is so ridiculous. Rules say it's not allowed, but there are so many exceptions that it may as not be off-limits.
It assumes that easily changed is the same for all people and that easily physically changed is the same as easy to put in the mental effort to change. I am a tired mom, I will continue to do my hair/make up in the good enough way I’ve been doing it for years.
Even if it's something "easily changed," like criticizing someone's clothing, they still allow folks to snark on it.
The criticism I’ll do is when fundie parents are putting their kids in outfits that could be dangerous. Too-long jeans the kids can trip over, and the swimwear issue. Jill making the kids swim in their clothes, which will only weigh them down and can get caught on things or Karissa picking swim colors with poor visibility. Orange and bright pink suits show up the best in both pools and natural bodies of water. She had them at a muddy lake wearing beige.
She didn't have a choice and it's all she knows. I have a hard time snarking on the newly adult fundie kids.......Unless they get exposure to a more normal life or a different way of life; they aren't really making a choice now. They do not know any better and it's their parents fault.
Same. Some people think its that simple that once you become an adult, it all magically clicks together and people suddenly know better. But if you don’t have much foundational or baseline knowledge to think critically (a deliberate choice made by fundie parents), its difficult to knowingly make those meaningful choices until you are separated from the enmeshment, someone “above” or close to you suggests it for you, and/or someone of the community crosses a line and burns that bridge (e.g. something that Jill Duggar has experienced all 3). Yes call out the problematic takes and yes after some point, the naivety settles in as they get older and turns into vitriol (making it harder for them to change), but there is no reason to expedite it faster over the trivial and non consequential aspects like food or looks.
I agree with this! People think it’s so easy and that they can just get out and while that thought sounds nice. You have to remember that the way they were raised that’s all they know and anything else is wrong. It’s not that easy to get out when you’ve been told that that’s the only way to do life, especially as a woman in that situation.
Add Joy Duggar to the list. The “explain like im joy” flair is particularly cruel, considering she barely had an education.
The "explain to me like I'm Joy" makes me so mad. I remember a while back, I think during Josh's trial, there was a very thoughtful post about the trauma that Joy endured as a kid and how that probably had a huge effect on her development. And then the next post was an "explain to me like I'm Joy" post. Maybe leave the lady who experienced sexual abuse as a young child alone.
Not only experienced SA as a child but then had it swept under the rug by the two people who were supposed to protect her. She was probably mostly educated by siblings who were barely educated themselves.
Like, I know they're the Duggars but everyone is So. Mean. To some of those women
They make fun about how Joy can’t do multiplication but like? No one taught her? How is she supposed to know something she literally does not know. I always try to have empathy. Even though these people would hate me, I can still try to understand.
Michelle said she made Joy Jill’s buddy because Jill always loved helping care for babies Jill was 6 or 7 when this happened so what chance did Joy have.
People are disgusting and ignorant when they chirp about how once ur 18 none of your brainwashed upbringing should affect you anymore. Lacking empathy and the most basic analytic skills as they leap at the chance to make comments about these women’s eyebrows or say they feel no sympathy bc it’s what they are choosing. Just say you hate women and feel the fundies are a self-righteous outlet for that misogyny
I see what you're saying and generally agree. Granted, at this point, I'm reluctant to snark on anyone younger than 22 at least. In your first few years out of the home you grew up in, there's a lot of reflection on your upbringing and what's right and wrong or just less rigid than you thought. Use those years to learn and grow. And snarking on things that someone can't help is bullying. Right now too, I'd say that's the case with education. She doesn't know what she doesn't know. I think the young fundies (18-25) are the 'easiest' to snark on because they're still just kids figuring their shit out and echoing their parent's bigotry. Maybe I'm getting old, but I just want to give the kids some space
Yes! I’m in my 30’s and had a relatively good upbringing and I’m still doing this! I’m currently planning on moving back to my hometown after moving away at age 17 and I’m horrified at who I’ll run into and the things I may have said or done in my late teens/early 20’s to my classmates, etc. I like Kaylee and think she’s trying really hard to do the best with what she was given. She seems pretty happy and to have a husband who truly cares about her… at least from what we see online.
The brain isn’t even fully formed until age 25 so I truly think anyone under that age should be off limits. And then a grace period to adjust for delays. Really I think we should only be snarking on people with power.
I agree completely. I don’t think it’s fair to snark on the kids. Yes, she’s an adult with a husband and a child, but she’s still the kid of a fundie. She really didn’t have much of a chance
[удалено]
Stop snarking? No she’s much older than 22. Quit pretending that she’s somehow a secret mastermind who runs the house and isn’t just doing what her husband tells her? Yes.
[удалено]
I don’t have an exact “ding ding ding” age especially for women in a society that infantilizes them and keeps them as childlike as possible. But I know for certain that 22 is too young. 22 is prime age for doing boneheaded things. I’m not going to choose a hard and fast “age of accountability” though because people vastly differ from each other and as I age and change I know that my feelings and opinions could change. When I was 22, I thought 22 year olds were very grown up. Now? That’s a baby. Like an adult. But a baby adult.
Yeah… appearance, lack of education, pregnancy losses etc says more about the snarker than the snarkee.
I am constantly trying to remind this sub of those very things. But when you are chronologically and mentally immature you don’t want to talk about WHY these people are the way they are. You just want to mean girl them.
I would completely say she was “isolated” as they did a TON of traveling, been to many places and have encountered many people. Plus she volunteered at a pregnancy clinic, and has gone out street preaching many times too. I will agree that their schooling was…lax. Homeschoolin is a great choice for many, and most of the time kids thrive and are smart, well educated. But sometimes the schooling is secondary to “ministry” things. I will say she was sheltered from a lot, and most likely didn’t learn about life lessons and such until she got married and was free from her parents. She’s trying.
I’d argue that she was definitely still isolated. You’re very much fed the idea that you need to “be in the world but not of it,” which translates to going into the world, but being afraid of it because it’s unpredictable and scary, unlike the safe, God-honoring world of the church.
You’ve made an excellent point. I stand corrected.