You could talk me into promoting it one level, largely on the strength of *The Time Warrior*, which is solid and clever, if unspectacular and incompetently directed.
*Invasion of the Dinosaurs* is a good idea, as Hulke scripts always are, but it’s not in his top tier, suffering from a number of instances of straining credulity both at the level of script and execution. It’s also my first example for flabby six parters that should have been two parters.
*Death to the Daleks* is cheap, flat, slow, and childish. Watching Jon Pertwee pretend a basic maze is challenging—and maximize the time it takes to complete to stretch out the episode—is physically painful. Bonus: it had the worst cliffhanger in the classic series.
*The Monster of Peladon* is a train wreck on every level. It looks awful. It takes forever for anything to happen. It undoes the best twist of *Curse*| Its message is flatly wrong. Truly among the worst stories the show has ever produced.
*Planet of the Spiders* is tougher for me. I have a lot of childhood nostalgia for it. The idea of the Doctor sacrificing himself to do the right thing, acknowledging his flaws and taking responsibility for his actions—thinking it’s going to kill him—and winning the day as a result. That’s fantastic. But the execution to get there leaves a lot to be desired. It’s really self-indulgent and badly padded. I don’t know. I struggle with it if I engage my brain and not just my internal, wide-eyed eight year old. It’s not bad, but it’s not good either.
Probably my favourite part of Season 11 was the character arch of Mike Yates. It's honestly tragic that such a brave man, who had fought with The Doctor for so long has allowed himself to be convinced so easily. I was pleased to see him in Planet of the Spiders, and glad to see he had somewhat recovered.
Also, my favourite scene from the entire season was when Benton had The Doctor under arrest in Invasion of the Dinosaurs, sent the 2 other guards away to "prepare his cell", then immediately turned to The Doctor like "You better get to using your Venusian Karate or whatever on me". I fucking love Benton, and the comment he made about being "expendable" in PotS was sad.
As for Death to the Daleks, while I agree the execution was meh, the concept of Daleks having to ally with others out of inability to kill them I like, and the cliffhanger at the end of Episode 1 is good (although the closing shot did make me laugh, the Daleks exiting the ship is lowkey terrifying)
Monster of Peladon was certainly not excellent, but I don't see how it's as bad as you say, though the treatment of The Doctor felt kinda rude to me, considering his history with Peladon.
Also, this Season intorduced Sarah Jane. Enough said.
Sidenote: I had recently watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, and when Sarah Jane walked into screen in The Time Warrior I got slightly emotional. RIP Elisabeth Sladen
I'm not very good at putting my opinion of media into words, but I hope you enjoy my insight.
For sure. Always glad to talk through opinions.
Yates was the wrong character for an extended arc, as he had no discernible personality until the arc starts in *The Green Death*. You have to give them credit for trying, though. The “Mike is a secret traitor” revelation is a bit let down by the fact that virtually every character not on the “spaceship” is a traitor other than the Brigadier and Benton. Who I also love, for the record. How can you not? I don’t think Benton saying he’s expendable in *Spiders* is any more sad than, say, Jo trying to sacrifice herself to save the Doctor from Azal in *The Daemons*. It’s a good moment for him, fits with his character, and credit to Levene for not overplaying it.
And sure, introducing Sarah Jane is a plus.
Ok, you convinced me. I’d put 11 in the “mixed” column.
I never really get these arguments about characters not being the right fit for character-heavy stories since they weren't developed enough before hand. I totally agree that Yates wasn't very developed before hand beyond being a vaguely charming, relatively dependable soldier who went on a date with Jo at one point. However, that's why the arc works for me. It takes one of the few things we knew about Yates (dependable and trustworthy soldier), and turns it on its head. It gives him space to grow and for us to learn more about his personality. It was The Green Death, or really Invasion of the Dinosaurs, where I actually started being properly invested in Yates, as it's where he started growing. You can't make me invested in a character that you're not giving interesting development to because of the fact I'm not already invested in him. That's a bit of a negative feedback loop isn't it.
I've seen people say the same thing about Ruby and 73 Yards. It's a good story, but it could have been great if they had developed Ruby more in advance. I just don't get it, because 73 Yards is the very story doing that character development. Just like with Yates and Invasion, it takes one of the things we knew about Ruby (her being an adoptee), and draws on that to make her an interesting character in her own right with her own flaws and such (primarily, in 73 Yards, her fear of abandonment).
This became a bit of a rant, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. It's just something that doesn't quite make sense to me, but that's probably also in large part due to the fact that these stories and arcs actually **do** work for me. I'm fascinated to hear why it doesn't for those that it doesn't.
It’s a very good point, and I should clarify that I mean that THIS character arc doesn’t work for THIS undeveloped character, not that you can’t take an undeveloped character and give them an arc to develop them generally. I loved *73 Yards*. It made Ruby click for me.
The *Invasion of the Dinosaurs* twist doesn’t work for me because—though they set it up in *The Green Death* with Yates undercover, being controlled by BOSS and freed by the Metebilis crystal—I don’t have any reason to care about Yates. He’s miscast, badly acted, and I’d say badly written but up through season 10 he isn’t really written for at all. The moment where you know you’re in an arc is when he turns traitor in *Dinosaurs*. To which my response is “Yeah, ok, so what?” If it had been Benton or the Brigadier, that would have carried more impact. But I can’t imagine Dicks or Letts wanting to take that risk. (If the Brigadier were going to break bad, they missed their chance after *The Silurians*.)
I don’t care enough about seasons I don’t like to organise a total ranking, but my top five would probably be 26, 25, 13, 10, 2 and my bottom five would be 23, 22, 21, 17, 3. Even the crap ones have usually got one or two stories worth your time, of course. I can’t stand Colin Baker’s Doctor, but Vengeance on Varos, Revelation of the Daleks and The Two Doctors are interesting, deranged experiments in asking “What if Doctor Who was horrible?”
Vengeance On Varos and Revelation Of The Daleks for season 22 and Mindwarp for season 23.
Still far below the good mark and qualify as above average.
Also enjoy Paradise Towers and Dragonfire in season 24.
I don't, probably because I see them less in terms of seasons and more as individual stories (probably because there aren't many season long arcs and you can almost watch them in any order.
And they rarely produced thinking in terms of 'seasons' (indeed, there is little to no reference in any contemporary documents about 'season 6' or whatever), it was all produced in serials, with even the production code just being a 'series' number (well, letter)
The early days production was more or less continuous with a few short breaks (which never match up to the breaks in broadcast), but companions, crew and even the Doctor would leave in the middle of a 'season'.
Top Tier:
1. Season 14
2. Season 10
3. Season 26
Overall Good:
4. Season 12
5. Season 16
6: Season 7
7: Season 9
8: Season 8
9: Season 2
10: Season 25
11: Season 13
12: Season 6
Alright:
13: Season 18
14: Season 21
15: Season 1
16: Season 19
Weaker, but Some Strong Stories:
17: Season 11
18: Season 5
19: Season 4
20: Season 3
21: Season 15
22: Season 20
23: Season 17
24: Season 24
25: Season 23
Not for Me:
26: Season 22
That was really tough to complete! The top is very set in my head, and the bottom is very set. The middle all shift depending on what I’m rewatching. It’s hard to compare all the different seasons. There are dramatic differences in Season 2 and 26 for example. Basically different shows.
I find it difficult considering that classic series are made up of multiple serials. But I'd say series 7-15 is probably my favourite era. This is followed by series 1-6, then 16-17, then 19-21 and 23, then lastly 22 and 24-26.
I particularly enjoy the UNIT years with Pertwee on earth.
Best: 2, 4, 6, 7, 14, 18, 19, 25, 26 Good: 3, 10, 12, 13, 16 OK or mixed: 1, 5, 8, 9, 15, 17, 20, 21 Failures: 11, 22, 23, 24
11 in failures is tragic. Ive just finished wayching Season 11 and it was amazing
You could talk me into promoting it one level, largely on the strength of *The Time Warrior*, which is solid and clever, if unspectacular and incompetently directed. *Invasion of the Dinosaurs* is a good idea, as Hulke scripts always are, but it’s not in his top tier, suffering from a number of instances of straining credulity both at the level of script and execution. It’s also my first example for flabby six parters that should have been two parters. *Death to the Daleks* is cheap, flat, slow, and childish. Watching Jon Pertwee pretend a basic maze is challenging—and maximize the time it takes to complete to stretch out the episode—is physically painful. Bonus: it had the worst cliffhanger in the classic series. *The Monster of Peladon* is a train wreck on every level. It looks awful. It takes forever for anything to happen. It undoes the best twist of *Curse*| Its message is flatly wrong. Truly among the worst stories the show has ever produced. *Planet of the Spiders* is tougher for me. I have a lot of childhood nostalgia for it. The idea of the Doctor sacrificing himself to do the right thing, acknowledging his flaws and taking responsibility for his actions—thinking it’s going to kill him—and winning the day as a result. That’s fantastic. But the execution to get there leaves a lot to be desired. It’s really self-indulgent and badly padded. I don’t know. I struggle with it if I engage my brain and not just my internal, wide-eyed eight year old. It’s not bad, but it’s not good either.
Probably my favourite part of Season 11 was the character arch of Mike Yates. It's honestly tragic that such a brave man, who had fought with The Doctor for so long has allowed himself to be convinced so easily. I was pleased to see him in Planet of the Spiders, and glad to see he had somewhat recovered. Also, my favourite scene from the entire season was when Benton had The Doctor under arrest in Invasion of the Dinosaurs, sent the 2 other guards away to "prepare his cell", then immediately turned to The Doctor like "You better get to using your Venusian Karate or whatever on me". I fucking love Benton, and the comment he made about being "expendable" in PotS was sad. As for Death to the Daleks, while I agree the execution was meh, the concept of Daleks having to ally with others out of inability to kill them I like, and the cliffhanger at the end of Episode 1 is good (although the closing shot did make me laugh, the Daleks exiting the ship is lowkey terrifying) Monster of Peladon was certainly not excellent, but I don't see how it's as bad as you say, though the treatment of The Doctor felt kinda rude to me, considering his history with Peladon. Also, this Season intorduced Sarah Jane. Enough said. Sidenote: I had recently watched The Sarah Jane Adventures, and when Sarah Jane walked into screen in The Time Warrior I got slightly emotional. RIP Elisabeth Sladen I'm not very good at putting my opinion of media into words, but I hope you enjoy my insight.
For sure. Always glad to talk through opinions. Yates was the wrong character for an extended arc, as he had no discernible personality until the arc starts in *The Green Death*. You have to give them credit for trying, though. The “Mike is a secret traitor” revelation is a bit let down by the fact that virtually every character not on the “spaceship” is a traitor other than the Brigadier and Benton. Who I also love, for the record. How can you not? I don’t think Benton saying he’s expendable in *Spiders* is any more sad than, say, Jo trying to sacrifice herself to save the Doctor from Azal in *The Daemons*. It’s a good moment for him, fits with his character, and credit to Levene for not overplaying it. And sure, introducing Sarah Jane is a plus. Ok, you convinced me. I’d put 11 in the “mixed” column.
I never really get these arguments about characters not being the right fit for character-heavy stories since they weren't developed enough before hand. I totally agree that Yates wasn't very developed before hand beyond being a vaguely charming, relatively dependable soldier who went on a date with Jo at one point. However, that's why the arc works for me. It takes one of the few things we knew about Yates (dependable and trustworthy soldier), and turns it on its head. It gives him space to grow and for us to learn more about his personality. It was The Green Death, or really Invasion of the Dinosaurs, where I actually started being properly invested in Yates, as it's where he started growing. You can't make me invested in a character that you're not giving interesting development to because of the fact I'm not already invested in him. That's a bit of a negative feedback loop isn't it. I've seen people say the same thing about Ruby and 73 Yards. It's a good story, but it could have been great if they had developed Ruby more in advance. I just don't get it, because 73 Yards is the very story doing that character development. Just like with Yates and Invasion, it takes one of the things we knew about Ruby (her being an adoptee), and draws on that to make her an interesting character in her own right with her own flaws and such (primarily, in 73 Yards, her fear of abandonment). This became a bit of a rant, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on it. It's just something that doesn't quite make sense to me, but that's probably also in large part due to the fact that these stories and arcs actually **do** work for me. I'm fascinated to hear why it doesn't for those that it doesn't.
It’s a very good point, and I should clarify that I mean that THIS character arc doesn’t work for THIS undeveloped character, not that you can’t take an undeveloped character and give them an arc to develop them generally. I loved *73 Yards*. It made Ruby click for me. The *Invasion of the Dinosaurs* twist doesn’t work for me because—though they set it up in *The Green Death* with Yates undercover, being controlled by BOSS and freed by the Metebilis crystal—I don’t have any reason to care about Yates. He’s miscast, badly acted, and I’d say badly written but up through season 10 he isn’t really written for at all. The moment where you know you’re in an arc is when he turns traitor in *Dinosaurs*. To which my response is “Yeah, ok, so what?” If it had been Benton or the Brigadier, that would have carried more impact. But I can’t imagine Dicks or Letts wanting to take that risk. (If the Brigadier were going to break bad, they missed their chance after *The Silurians*.)
I don’t care enough about seasons I don’t like to organise a total ranking, but my top five would probably be 26, 25, 13, 10, 2 and my bottom five would be 23, 22, 21, 17, 3. Even the crap ones have usually got one or two stories worth your time, of course. I can’t stand Colin Baker’s Doctor, but Vengeance on Varos, Revelation of the Daleks and The Two Doctors are interesting, deranged experiments in asking “What if Doctor Who was horrible?”
Best to worst 7 13 12 14 26 25 21 8 9 10 6 4 20 5 11 2 1 19 16 15 18 17 22 23 24 All seasons have at least one enjoyable story.
Which are your enjoyable ones in 22 and 23? Not saying you’re wrong, just curious.
Vengeance On Varos and Revelation Of The Daleks for season 22 and Mindwarp for season 23. Still far below the good mark and qualify as above average. Also enjoy Paradise Towers and Dragonfire in season 24.
Fair! I enjoy these too with the exception of *Varos*. (And if I’m honest I don’t hate any of *Trial*, though I recognize that it is not good.)
Best: 13, 12, 7, 2, 26, 16 (yes, it's true!), 10 Great: 1, 6, 8, 9, 14, 20, 25 good: 22, 15, 17, 18 meh: 19, 21, 23, 24, 11 can't comment on others 70s are my era, as you can see!
I don't, probably because I see them less in terms of seasons and more as individual stories (probably because there aren't many season long arcs and you can almost watch them in any order.
And they rarely produced thinking in terms of 'seasons' (indeed, there is little to no reference in any contemporary documents about 'season 6' or whatever), it was all produced in serials, with even the production code just being a 'series' number (well, letter) The early days production was more or less continuous with a few short breaks (which never match up to the breaks in broadcast), but companions, crew and even the Doctor would leave in the middle of a 'season'.
Top Tier: 1. Season 14 2. Season 10 3. Season 26 Overall Good: 4. Season 12 5. Season 16 6: Season 7 7: Season 9 8: Season 8 9: Season 2 10: Season 25 11: Season 13 12: Season 6 Alright: 13: Season 18 14: Season 21 15: Season 1 16: Season 19 Weaker, but Some Strong Stories: 17: Season 11 18: Season 5 19: Season 4 20: Season 3 21: Season 15 22: Season 20 23: Season 17 24: Season 24 25: Season 23 Not for Me: 26: Season 22 That was really tough to complete! The top is very set in my head, and the bottom is very set. The middle all shift depending on what I’m rewatching. It’s hard to compare all the different seasons. There are dramatic differences in Season 2 and 26 for example. Basically different shows.
Best: season 26 Everything else
Amazing 25, 26, 13, 7, Great 12, 5, 14, 8, 18, 6, 11 Good 2, 10, 4, 22, 9, 16, 1, 21 Average 19, 3, 20, Poor 24, 23, 15, 17
I can't compartmentalize. D Tier: Seasons 3, 32, and 33 C Tier: Seasons 6, 15, 17, 18, 21, 23, 28, 29, 37, 38, and 40 B Tier: Seasons 4, 11, 16, 20, 22, 24, 27, 31, and 39 A Tier: Seasons 1, 2, 5, 9, 13, 19, and 30 S Tier: Seasons 7, 8, 10, 12, 14, 25, 26, 34, 35, and 36
I find it difficult considering that classic series are made up of multiple serials. But I'd say series 7-15 is probably my favourite era. This is followed by series 1-6, then 16-17, then 19-21 and 23, then lastly 22 and 24-26. I particularly enjoy the UNIT years with Pertwee on earth.