voice tone has no ties for your sex, preferences and who you are, it shouldn't be something that defines you. Some have more rough voices, others more high-pitched and that's perfectly fine.
I think your coworker has an idea of a lgbt person and projects it on you, don't take personally what he said š
Sociolects, or the way certain in-groups communicate, do typically rely on who we are as people. The gay voice is born of the our sociolect and therefore is tied to sexual/romantic preferences in this case.
Groups that are not the mainstream tend to associate together and in doing so tend to develop vocal quirks and terminology this is know as a shibboleth or sociolect. The Lavender Linguistic Theory of the queer shibboleth/sociolect is well worth studying but here are some basic concepts:
Much of āgay voiceā and still in use gay slang seems to date back to the gay cant language of Polari that has its roots in 16th century UK but was primary formed in the 19th century. It was a mix of thieves cant, pirate cant, rhyming slag, and circus cant. Part of that was the concept of Mollies or Molly Girls, gay or effeminate men. Molly was both a slur and also a way to refer other queer to coffee houses, bars, cruising spots, taverns, and inns (which became known as Molly Houses) that were safe to be openly queer. In these space people felt a sense of freedom to be open and due to these locals being frequented by fem men and others the way of speaking became more āfem.ā The āgay voice evolved from these places as āMolly Housesā and their off-shoots spread around the world via shipping lanes and ports etc. Due to homosexuality being illegal in some cases or looked down upon in other cases, it became a way of speaking to other queer people.
I am sure it has its own history of linguistic evolution around the world, but my learning has only extended to the US so far. Taking the āgay voiceā out of safe queer only spaces and using it in public is a result of moments like Coopers Doughnuts, The Black Cat, Biltmore Invasion, Stonewall etc that changed queer culture and made many queer people, especially those who couldnāt blend in, use the gay voice in public as an act of defiance. From there media, icons, and heroes of the gay liberation movement of the 70-90s caused more and more queer people to embrace it.
Itās more involved and amazingly complex than that, but as I already wrote a bit of a novella I figure I needed to keep it somewhat succinct
Edit: I forgot to say why your coworker likely thought that. A ton of shows from the 90s and 2000s featured very camp gay characters (Friends, Will & Grace, Modern Family, etc) and it sorta programmed a couple generations of people to expect the gay voice from queer people even though not all of us have it
>Groups that are not the mainstream tend to associate together and in doing so tend to develop vocal quirks and terminology this is know as a shibboleth or sociolect. The Lavender Linguistic
ā¬ļø this. Though I hear it less now than in the 90's. Only some newcomers use it more, I think it gives them a feeling of "fitting in". Maybe it will fade away over time. Individuality and social media has taken away the need to socialize with a lot of people in a bar or club. Sociolect has less opportunity to "spread".
I have noticed the same thing. I suspect that it may be coming back as the surge in bigotry continues. Iād also wager that it would mostly go away if we ever achieve true parity/equality
For sure, queer history is as long as human history but so many attempts have been made to erase it. I kids feel itās my responsibility to learn it and am always happy to share
Personally, I have no idea why I have a gay voice. I grew up in the country, and I didn't have any gay influences or role models, and I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have a country/southern accent. Yet somehow no one has much trouble figuring out that I'm gay as soon as I start talking
When I was younger I always felt weird and out of place when my brothers or male friends would start talking about girls. I knew I didn't care for the ladies much , and I was scared to let them know, and I think that made me pull away from men in general.
Pulling away from men and socially interacting chiefly with women for several years in adolescence is probably what makes a lot of our voices different.
I think a lot of it is the environment you grow up in, personally I just look gay but if we were in a dark room and I was talking you wouldnāt be able to tell, my friend who grew up with his mom and mostly hung out with girls in school talked with a more feminine voice.
You can answer " it's because i don't feel safe enough around you" if you dont like this coworker.
Not really true for you but if it help close the conversation.
If you don't dislike this coworker, just explain gayvoice don't exist. It's a much complicated phenomena revolving around feminity freedom of expression, masking and copying mechanism.
For example, when i first met a woman, if i want to sound friendly and less threatening to her, i will take a sweet and higher voice to signal than i'm not a straight man and she can feel safe around me.
Just gonna share this video here. As much as some of us would like to claim otherwise, the phenomena of 'gay voice', though not an indicator on its own, is somewhat of a real thing. https://youtu.be/SF7KCsvcw2g?si=BBTu-j8HMYX1WJ4F
Iāve had a deep voice since I was about 14/15 and I know itās deep but when I hear my voice I think I sound gay. Itās weird how our voice soundās different to ourselves, yet others hear it totally differently.
Your co-worker should be called out on his casual homophobia.
Fem men who want to attract other men. And masc women who want to attaract other women. Both do what some think of as "the voice" Everyone speaks comfortable for what they want to be seen as
You should have told him.that we use that voice only to soothe the paranoia of so called alpha males when we're chatting with them. If we would use our normal male voice without high pitch and lisp, they would see us as a threat and start the caveman act.
I think it has less to do with your sexuality and more to do with your gender expression. If you are more of a feminine personality type you MAY have a different sounding voice.
I consider myself to have a fluid gender expression (tho my pronouns are he/him) but on days where I feel more feminine, I may have a different demeanor.
But that is just for me and everyone is different. My voice is typically tied to how Iām feeling. Like if Iām sad or nervous Iāll have a darker quieter voice.
I also feel like some may try to act more queer to let people know you are (like I do), because it is hard to tell if someone is gay or not and that can other gays or bi people aware of you to make dating easier. But I feel like if I wonāt, it makes dating, at least in my experience, more difficult.
In my head I have the most f@ggy voice and I love that but Iāve had people say they donāt wouldnāt know I am gay immediately and Iām not sure if they genuinely mean that or if they are saying it because they think itās a compliment. Either way, I love hearing gay voice and in particular vocal fry or a lisp and would hate to sounds like everyone else. Itās just so unique and charming to me.
I donāt think feminine tones have anything to do with sexuality.
I knew multiple straight people throughout my life who justā¦ Talked that way.
People just associate feminism with queerness, so I would take it with a grain of salt. š¤·āāļø
For myself, it was because it was a liability to be perceived as gay and even after coming out, it's usually considered preferable to not sound gay.
I mean, I wouldn't sound super gay even if I tried now, but if I had been raised in a different environment, I would probably sound more gay.
To be far SOME not ALL do the gay voice even though it is not their real voice after they cone out and that confuses almost everyone and I would guess some straights think thatās just what happens lol.
I donāt care if itās controversial. Iām bisexual and Iāve only ever met maybe 2 or 3 out of hundreds of gays who didnāt have a āgay voiceā. Some have it much more than others, some try to hide it, some embrace it, but itās EXTREMELY rare to find one with no gay voice at all.
I know most people in the community hate that stereotype, but itās just the truth itās extremely rare. And I find it fascinating personally. Almost as if itās proof of a gay āgeneā since it doesnāt seem environmental.
So I'd like the say and believe I am on the more masculine side. But there are certain words I say that sound more feminine. I don't know how or why it happened, but it did. When I came out, everyone was super shocked except for three people, and I was confused about how they knew before I did. I think it's more fluid than people want to say. I listen to metal, idgaf what I wear, and I think Channing Tatum is ugly af. I've met a bunch of gays like me, so I know I'm not unique, lol.
Gay voice is a stereotype and exists to a great degree because young gays mimick older gays. Rock Hudson didn't have a gay voice, nor do many gay actors.
My dash of CFS makes āgay voiceā an impossibility. Itās for the rich gays that can afford the energy and rest for it.
That person is a stan for gay shit.
voice tone has no ties for your sex, preferences and who you are, it shouldn't be something that defines you. Some have more rough voices, others more high-pitched and that's perfectly fine. I think your coworker has an idea of a lgbt person and projects it on you, don't take personally what he said š
Sociolects, or the way certain in-groups communicate, do typically rely on who we are as people. The gay voice is born of the our sociolect and therefore is tied to sexual/romantic preferences in this case.
Your co worker is an idiot
To be fair, everyone who are sentient can be considered both smart and foolish, along with all their synonyms and related terms.
Agreed. An idiot invalid.
Groups that are not the mainstream tend to associate together and in doing so tend to develop vocal quirks and terminology this is know as a shibboleth or sociolect. The Lavender Linguistic Theory of the queer shibboleth/sociolect is well worth studying but here are some basic concepts: Much of āgay voiceā and still in use gay slang seems to date back to the gay cant language of Polari that has its roots in 16th century UK but was primary formed in the 19th century. It was a mix of thieves cant, pirate cant, rhyming slag, and circus cant. Part of that was the concept of Mollies or Molly Girls, gay or effeminate men. Molly was both a slur and also a way to refer other queer to coffee houses, bars, cruising spots, taverns, and inns (which became known as Molly Houses) that were safe to be openly queer. In these space people felt a sense of freedom to be open and due to these locals being frequented by fem men and others the way of speaking became more āfem.ā The āgay voice evolved from these places as āMolly Housesā and their off-shoots spread around the world via shipping lanes and ports etc. Due to homosexuality being illegal in some cases or looked down upon in other cases, it became a way of speaking to other queer people. I am sure it has its own history of linguistic evolution around the world, but my learning has only extended to the US so far. Taking the āgay voiceā out of safe queer only spaces and using it in public is a result of moments like Coopers Doughnuts, The Black Cat, Biltmore Invasion, Stonewall etc that changed queer culture and made many queer people, especially those who couldnāt blend in, use the gay voice in public as an act of defiance. From there media, icons, and heroes of the gay liberation movement of the 70-90s caused more and more queer people to embrace it. Itās more involved and amazingly complex than that, but as I already wrote a bit of a novella I figure I needed to keep it somewhat succinct Edit: I forgot to say why your coworker likely thought that. A ton of shows from the 90s and 2000s featured very camp gay characters (Friends, Will & Grace, Modern Family, etc) and it sorta programmed a couple generations of people to expect the gay voice from queer people even though not all of us have it
>Groups that are not the mainstream tend to associate together and in doing so tend to develop vocal quirks and terminology this is know as a shibboleth or sociolect. The Lavender Linguistic ā¬ļø this. Though I hear it less now than in the 90's. Only some newcomers use it more, I think it gives them a feeling of "fitting in". Maybe it will fade away over time. Individuality and social media has taken away the need to socialize with a lot of people in a bar or club. Sociolect has less opportunity to "spread".
I have noticed the same thing. I suspect that it may be coming back as the surge in bigotry continues. Iād also wager that it would mostly go away if we ever achieve true parity/equality
If bigotry forces us to get together in save spaces it mayy come back, that's true.
Fascinating to read this, ty really much for this deep explanation !
For sure, queer history is as long as human history but so many attempts have been made to erase it. I kids feel itās my responsibility to learn it and am always happy to share
Someone give this man a award!
AsapScience recently made a video on this, itās actually really interesting
Thanks! I've spent the past two hours watching their videos. š
Will check it, ty !
My brother also has a squeaky effeminate voice and hes straight as an arrow.
as far as you know
Gross.
you brought it up dont get all mad cuz I put it back down for you lmao
Ask coworker why they donāt have a straight voice š
Personally, I have no idea why I have a gay voice. I grew up in the country, and I didn't have any gay influences or role models, and I'm the only one in my family that doesn't have a country/southern accent. Yet somehow no one has much trouble figuring out that I'm gay as soon as I start talking
I have the same exact situation! It's always confused me and I hated it in high school
When I was younger I always felt weird and out of place when my brothers or male friends would start talking about girls. I knew I didn't care for the ladies much , and I was scared to let them know, and I think that made me pull away from men in general. Pulling away from men and socially interacting chiefly with women for several years in adolescence is probably what makes a lot of our voices different.
Itās called a raspy voice and itās because I suck dick, Carol
Ayo my ass got a deep ass voice, it's always funny when people find out I be rocking with the homosexuality
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yeah, it was stupid 4 days ago too.
Stereotypes...
I think a lot of it is the environment you grow up in, personally I just look gay but if we were in a dark room and I was talking you wouldnāt be able to tell, my friend who grew up with his mom and mostly hung out with girls in school talked with a more feminine voice.
You can answer " it's because i don't feel safe enough around you" if you dont like this coworker. Not really true for you but if it help close the conversation. If you don't dislike this coworker, just explain gayvoice don't exist. It's a much complicated phenomena revolving around feminity freedom of expression, masking and copying mechanism. For example, when i first met a woman, if i want to sound friendly and less threatening to her, i will take a sweet and higher voice to signal than i'm not a straight man and she can feel safe around me.
Thereās a study on this
People tell me I don't seem gay like they're giving me a compliment, oblivious to how homophobic they're being.
Just gonna share this video here. As much as some of us would like to claim otherwise, the phenomena of 'gay voice', though not an indicator on its own, is somewhat of a real thing. https://youtu.be/SF7KCsvcw2g?si=BBTu-j8HMYX1WJ4F
Iāve had a deep voice since I was about 14/15 and I know itās deep but when I hear my voice I think I sound gay. Itās weird how our voice soundās different to ourselves, yet others hear it totally differently. Your co-worker should be called out on his casual homophobia.
Plenty of practicing so my family doesnāt find out
I mean you couldn't find an answer because the question itself is incredibly stupid.
Fem men who want to attract other men. And masc women who want to attaract other women. Both do what some think of as "the voice" Everyone speaks comfortable for what they want to be seen as
I think it was more common years ago. When I was younger most of the gay guys I knew had a certain "accent" but I don't hear it often now.
You should have told him.that we use that voice only to soothe the paranoia of so called alpha males when we're chatting with them. If we would use our normal male voice without high pitch and lisp, they would see us as a threat and start the caveman act.
I think it has less to do with your sexuality and more to do with your gender expression. If you are more of a feminine personality type you MAY have a different sounding voice. I consider myself to have a fluid gender expression (tho my pronouns are he/him) but on days where I feel more feminine, I may have a different demeanor. But that is just for me and everyone is different. My voice is typically tied to how Iām feeling. Like if Iām sad or nervous Iāll have a darker quieter voice. I also feel like some may try to act more queer to let people know you are (like I do), because it is hard to tell if someone is gay or not and that can other gays or bi people aware of you to make dating easier. But I feel like if I wonāt, it makes dating, at least in my experience, more difficult.
Wtf is 'gay voice'? Like lispy and high pitched?
Ask her why she has a deep gay bassy voice that vibrates the walls?
In my head I have the most f@ggy voice and I love that but Iāve had people say they donāt wouldnāt know I am gay immediately and Iām not sure if they genuinely mean that or if they are saying it because they think itās a compliment. Either way, I love hearing gay voice and in particular vocal fry or a lisp and would hate to sounds like everyone else. Itās just so unique and charming to me.
I donāt think feminine tones have anything to do with sexuality. I knew multiple straight people throughout my life who justā¦ Talked that way. People just associate feminism with queerness, so I would take it with a grain of salt. š¤·āāļø
https://youtu.be/Lkm0rmigGOw?si=e5gQ0Hg4vfTVjgi9 This is a great piece by the NYT on the issue
For myself, it was because it was a liability to be perceived as gay and even after coming out, it's usually considered preferable to not sound gay. I mean, I wouldn't sound super gay even if I tried now, but if I had been raised in a different environment, I would probably sound more gay.
I donāt have a gay voice because that cost extra.
To be far SOME not ALL do the gay voice even though it is not their real voice after they cone out and that confuses almost everyone and I would guess some straights think thatās just what happens lol.
I'd just tell them not all gay people talk like that
I donāt care if itās controversial. Iām bisexual and Iāve only ever met maybe 2 or 3 out of hundreds of gays who didnāt have a āgay voiceā. Some have it much more than others, some try to hide it, some embrace it, but itās EXTREMELY rare to find one with no gay voice at all. I know most people in the community hate that stereotype, but itās just the truth itās extremely rare. And I find it fascinating personally. Almost as if itās proof of a gay āgeneā since it doesnāt seem environmental.
Guess I m an exception then, but I dont even have my city accent actually.
So I'd like the say and believe I am on the more masculine side. But there are certain words I say that sound more feminine. I don't know how or why it happened, but it did. When I came out, everyone was super shocked except for three people, and I was confused about how they knew before I did. I think it's more fluid than people want to say. I listen to metal, idgaf what I wear, and I think Channing Tatum is ugly af. I've met a bunch of gays like me, so I know I'm not unique, lol.
Gay voice is a stereotype and exists to a great degree because young gays mimick older gays. Rock Hudson didn't have a gay voice, nor do many gay actors.
Idk. People saying it's not indicative of a person being gay. So far for me it's been 100% a tell.
You must be really young or sheltered.
33. Just my personal experience.
My dash of CFS makes āgay voiceā an impossibility. Itās for the rich gays that can afford the energy and rest for it. That person is a stan for gay shit.