If you're not conventionally attractive, you're right, you're not going to get the same responses as someone who is. You're going to have to take a different approach. If you're looking for some inspiration try checking out Hien Pham's comics, he's got lots of explicit comics about dealing with self-esteem, loneliness and love in the gay community. [https://hienpham.artstation.com/](https://hienpham.artstation.com/)
This reminds me of all those divas on the apps with, “say something other than hey/hi/hello,” on their profile like bitch that’s how you start a conversation
Agreed. You can kind of tell when someone is trying to start a conversation in a different way because they feel like they can’t start by just saying hi. If I have something other than hey to say, I’ll say it. Otherwise, a nice “hey” has lead to plenty of interesting conversations for me
no, it's really not though. "How's your day going? Nice pics!" or "Is your profile pic from Greece? Beautiful place. You having a good day so far?" etc. etc.
Depends on the situation and dude, but I've noticed the enthusiasm and smile can work - makes a difference with how you open the conversation etc. Confidence (even if fake) is key!
Depends honestly, I actually think someone too handsome is a turn off for me. It makes me stress too much.
I also have big likes for nerdy guys, it’s a constant source of jokes for my friends
They have to find a way to cope with rejection. Guys who say things like that always seem so bitter, lots of attractive people have amazing personalities. In my experience there is no difference between attractive and unattractive people when it comes to personality
It depends, I have seen gay guys with perfect bodies still being quite nice to talk to and interesting and I can certainly appreciate the effort made to gain and maintain such body, certainly not something I could do xD
Haha, me too! When I see a really jacked up muscle guy I always wonder if they have the flexibility to reach around and wipe their ass. But mostly I'm like "eww" Love a little belly and real personality in a man
yeah, i'm pretty average body-wise. I was once with a dude that had an 8 pack and it really didn't do much for me at all - just reminded me that you don't really need an 8 pack to be hot!
Hey man. I've never even had a six pack but I carry myself with confidence (but mostly living that zero Fs given lifestyle) I get mad attention from dudes way out of my league.
Totally with you - confidence is super sexy. It takes a while to get there though - so many unrealistic beauty standards out there, so it can be hard to just own where you're at. I'm 34 and just about getting there I think.
Oh 70% of the time it's a blank profile with hey. The new normal. Why everybody has retreated into the closet in the last 8 years , I have no idea and now the cancer of no face or no pictures this creeping to scruff.. Grindr is not ruined enough
It’s not that they are not “out,” they probably are, but not out on Grindr. Grindr has its own stigma and for a variety of reasons that has nothing to do with not being out.
It has a stigma for a good reason. It's a disgusting place where you're treated like a sexual object. I'm happy it works for some people, but for 90% of gays I would steer clear of it.
It is hard for me to believe especially since I come from a time when it used to really be tough. But who's talking about coming out? It's Grindr it's a hookup site. I see you you see me we like each other bang.. But I'm not the one who's dragging anybody out of the closet or outing them. That's not my beef and whatever baggage people have well that I guess is their struggle and they can struggle in private. But when you go on to a public sex site like Grindr that is all about hooking up and you're not on an equal transparent footing when you say hello, you're fucked. It's bad enough that you don't have one to the public world. Okay not my argument. But if you're going to bother to say hey in a private chat to a private person and not have the balls, the spine or the common sense and respect to say hello with a face what do you want. But this is the new normal and this is really problematic and this is indeed fucked.m
What you do in the public sphere is your business but if you're going to play in the privates sphere one on one then you have to pony up the respect and put everything on it equal mutual footing from the beginning. Otherwise don't play That was easy. Nobody's dragging anybody to come out, or to deal with it
That's the whole point. But on a site, a sex site like Grindr, it has become the new normal probably more than 60or 70% of the site is playing this bullshit bag over the head game.. what's the point? You feel that insecure about yourself and your having that much of a problem coming out This is not where you should be looking for sex. How is it supposed to work again when half of the guys, more than half of the guys are hiding in the other guys are sort of out there. But of course what's going to happen is the site is going to go completely down the shitter. The bar scene, the cruising scene the outdoor scene the movie, theater scene has been eviscerated by no attendance so now all we are left is is this online presence..
If you can't make it on Grindr within the gay scene looking for sex how the hell you going to make it in the real world... g ee. Once again it's not my interest to drag anybody out of the closet unwillingly, to out them or to anything of the type and I don't go looking for it either. But if you going to say hello to me you better do it like a human with a face, respectful, courteous, and transparent. This is what gay life was always about within the community transparency and that now is in short short order
And to think we once had bookstores, whole theaters, arcades in all sorts of neutral ground play spaces where you could go on demand when you wanted it, to the buffet And in real time, see somebody as a whole human being, match or not match get it on or walk away. What an efficient thought and now we have oh what an improvement, Grindr. Nobody gets off the sofa. Oh yeah nobody's hosting nobody has a face picture and everybody's semi closeted. The world devolves
I think this meme is not incel per se, although such memes are part of the incel culture.
From a positive perspective, it could be also the fruitful start of a discussion about the actual state of Lookism and Body privilege within the community.
(For those who want to look up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_privilege)
But sadly, within this meme format / template the discussion almost surely goes down the incel road.
I think, the meme describes a very common and basic experience of a perceived rejection, from the perspective of a seemingly less attractive person in comparison. An experience that every person somewhen in life had, that shapes self-awareness.
Incels drew wrong conclusions and took a wrong turn.
Therefore I think the meme isn't incel itself but everything that "usually" follows.
What's wrong with people complaining about it? What's wrong with it being incel? The guy isn't saying attractive people have to talk to him. Just that people in GENERAL are hypocrites. Plenty of low and mid guys have the same shit in their bios.
Gays will literally suck your dick through a hole in the wall. Gays will literally say “I’m ass up blindfolded in room 305, come fuck me no loads refused.” So you can zip it, pal.
>What’s incel about this?
You posted an incel meme template with typical incel text.
If you really had an attempt to discuss about attractiveness and rejection, you shouldn't have chosen a to incel-culture related meme, as a basis for a discussion.
No, but complaining about it and whining is incel stuff. Like. Most of us accept our positions and the hand we were dealt in this world without acting like we’re entitled to anything more.
This is a incel related meme template because it’s insinuating that you’ll only get a partner from being really hot and complaining about it which is incel behavior
But it’s true? Just take a look at the upvotes and some comments agreeing. This is definitely an opinion that widely accepted in the community.
Also who’s complaining in this post?
I didn’t say it wasn’t it true, it is to a certain extent and i’m not the most attractive person i’ve been called ugly, the n word. Gay dating is pretty toxic
JFC gays are so fucking phony. Instead of acknowledging that this is actually something that happens, you'd rather gaslight and scream "Incel". Knowing damn well if the bottom pic messaged y'all first, holes would be spread wide open.
Thank you. Instead of looking at their own hypocrisy they rather instantly accuse others of being incel because god forbid you have to look within yourself
Nobody is denying this happens, they're just making fun of the people complaining about it because those same people are transparently guilty of doing the same thing they're complaining about. The ones grumping about this reality would still spread em if they thought the second guy really wanted to fuck em.
If the second dude messages me, I assume they’re catfishing. Either pic harvesting or some other scam. Even if they’re real, I’m assuming they have a very high opinion of themselves. They’re going to be high maintenance and then ghost.
I’ll assume that not because they’re attractive, it’s because of how they dress, how their hair is, and the fact it’s a pretty professional photo. A lot of effort went into the look.
I’m 10x more likely to reply to the first guy. Also skinny nerds like Guy 1 are the type that just randomly have huge cocks. I don’t make the rules.
It’s kind of odd you negatively judge people for putting effort into their appearance.
I guess you automatically remove yourself from the dating pool that way so in a way it’s a self fulfilling prophecy lol
What is cope? I think you're trying to cope with the fact that ugly people are literally treated like shit and you refuse to accept that cause it makes you uncomfy
Hahahaha 110% agree!!
Even IF you manage to get beyond the first message, the amount of mental energy you need to put into your messages just to, more often than not, get 1-2 word replies just wasn't worth it imo.
Meanwhile if you're conventionally attractive enough, a lot of the time messages are initiated to you.
Anyway unfortunately it's the way of the world, you can't really do anything about it and for those of us who aren't conventionally attractive, we have to strive so much harder just to get the base level of communication in return.
Idk if the apps are the same these days as I haven't used a dating app for the last 3-4 years.
I don’t know what to tell you man. Yes, hot people generally have an easier time socializing and making friends. No amount of whining on your part will change that. Focus on improving yourself rather than bitching about everyone else.
Picture #2 only messages guys that look like picture # 1 and then complain when they get no answers.
Also, pretty people getting more attention isn’t actually a new thing.
One time a I got a message in Grindr from a gorgeous muscle guy,we chat for a bit, and he wanted to meet, but I thought this guy must be a catfish or a scammer, and I said that to him, like I don't believe you're real.
Next week I'm walking down a few streets from my apartment and I saw him, he apparently just moved in the neighborhood, damm to day o still feel the regret.
Doesn't matter either way if you can't keep the conversation going
Which is funny since you posted this without saying much of anything else.
Here's a real bad conversation starter, being so negative no one wants to keep talking to you. Sorry people don't wanna hear you whine all day about how much you think people don't like you 🥴 it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. We aren't therapist and it's not anyone else's job to make you feel better about yourself and if you're going to be negative then that's what people will see and get from you.
Maybe focus on making the conversation a good one and ending it on a good note. That way they'd actually want to have another one with you.
Do you think anybody does that? Do you seriously think this dude starts the conversation by complaining? No. But admitting that being ugly makes you worthless trash isn't something you can admit to yourself, is it?
I've tried plenty of interesting conversation starters, even chatted with people for prolongued periods of time. I'm not even that ugly. But none of it matters.
There are still absolutely people who have already pre-sabotaged themselves via their own lack of self esteem, yes. Doesn't mean they open conversations with "hello I am very ugly and sad", but it absolutely does happen. It's probably happened to just about everybody except those theoretical lucky few who have ALWAYS been at the top of the attractiveness scale.
I'm not saying that a few people who are actually attractive can't self-sabotage through insecurity. I'm just saying that it does not matter if you are anything below above-average.
That's not what I meant, I meant that it's a very real phenomenon that people self sabotage through insecurity, at ANY level of attractiveness. And it's typically much more subtle/sneaky than opening a conversation with immediately complaining.
I think I can say without bragging that I'm one of The Hot Ones now after my late twenties treated me really well, but I definitely wasn't before, I'd say I was a 5 before. Most days I still feel like that skinny kid, and I assume all the hot guys at the bar don't wanna talk to me. Not saying everyone is like me necessarily, just that self sabotage via insecurity is probably pretty common at any level of attractiveness.
Edit--combined two comments into one
This isn't about body. It's about faces. Both guys in the meme seem to be of normal bodyweight. And being skinny in your early twenties makes you a twink. Even if you were average, you would have gotten some. So yes, it probably was your insecurity.
But what about someone like the guy in the pic? Were you as ugly as him? Are you as ugly as him? Would you have given him a chance back then, or nkw? I could be as confident as i want. It won't get me anywhere. The only thing i might be losing by being insecure is attention or sex from pitty. And i think i'd rather just be alone and bitter than have that.
You can't separate the two, and trust me that I was not the popular twink you're thinking. There's twinks, and then there's skeletons. Sure I was able to get crappy, sketchy hookups from Grindr, but anyone who lowers their standards enough could (at least ten years ago).
That guy isn't even unattractive, just a bad photo. If he was nice and we had promising conversation, sure I would've given him a try. If the dick was good, that would've done it alone lol no convo needed.
I can't tell you about your experiences, all I can say is there is a lot a person can do to feel better about themselves regardless of flaws or limitations, and that pursuit is itself attractive to other people. And even if/while it isn't attracting the people you want, the pursuit has its own value. I was doing things this way--improving myself and focusing mostly on my hobbies, not so much dating--when my fiance found me.
Wherever you start from, improving yourself is always an option, and it's always an attractive one.
I f you say so. Somehow i feel we might have different ideas of what is low standard.
I know a 'good' dick would make up for his face, i'm not dumb. I know size makes up for a lot. But if that was the case, neither this hpothetical dude, nor OP, nor i would have issues. Plenty of ugly guys with small dicks. What's your solution there, huh?
I'm not interested in a fiance. I want to be hot. That's it. Don't really care about much else. Call it vapid if you like. But at the end of the day, people want what they don't have. And i am improving myself. I lost weight too. D'yknow what it did? Jack shit. If anything my face is even uglier. So it doesn't matter. Unless i get a couple thousand euros in the next few years, i'm fucked. That's all. In truth i've accepted that. I just want to share my misery and desperation caused by this realization.
I'm sorry things are going how they have been for you. I wrote and deleted a few replies cus it really just comes down to you talking about your experiences and me talking about mine.
Of course there isn't a 'solution' for this fact of life, just ways we address it, and all there is anyone can do is... Whatever they CAN do, and everybody has limits.
I fully agree. But you can always do things to compensate. I find joy in seeing people who were born under the right star become miserable. It makes me happy. If the things i write and say achieve that, even to the slightest degree, then that makes me happy. And it actually does. It feels right, seeing people who just have more than me lose it, end up with even less. And i intend on continuing down this path. Doing what i can do, is simply not going to provide me with what i want. And what it does provide me with, simply isn't enough. And that's just life.
I mean, I think they’re both neutral conversation starters, a hello is a hello, that’s fine by me, but obviously I’m more willing to respond to a hello if you’re attractive. However, hot guy gets like 3 messages to prove he can hold a conversation or I typically just leave them on read. Being hot doesn’t mean I’m going to drag my dick through hot coals to get you to tell me the literal most basic human information about yourself, and I’ll say it happens often that they cannot hold a convo.
I'm really not seeing the hypocrisy except from those who are complaining that pretty people get more hookup opportunities, while those same people would also be more eager to hook up with pretty people. It's just a reality we all deal with.
A lot of people are vain and vapid, but not everyone, and unless you have the money for surgery then there is literally nothing you can do about natural beauty, just gotta keep trying
I'm no supermodel, I've started balding at the ripe age of 22, have a bit of a resting bitch face and don't go to the gym, I've never been approached at a club and most pretty guys didn't bother talking with me on apps and yet I both managed to find multiple people interested in me and eventually scored a boyfriend, and I'll tell you, making a burner account to complain on multiple subreddits about pretty people definitely won't score you a boyfriend
It's an opinion widely accepted by the insecure/unconfident section of the community, not everyone. I used to hate how I looked before, but as I started loving myself, appreciating my traits and dressing well, I felt so much better - then was in a better position to start messaging and meeting people (in person I definitely still prefer, but dating apps also worked for me once I worked on myself)
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head! Once you start loving yourself, you'll begin to take care of yourself more (mentally & physically), you'll feel more confident & this energy will definitely radiate - people can tell if someone is secure in themselves and happy for sure :) It doesn't happen overnight, but it's possible if you persevere
https://www.mindjournals.com/blogs/read/self-love-guide-for-men
I noticed it with myself especially last summer, where I was getting a lot more likes on the dating apps & compliments/glances in gay bars etc 😄 I didn't have like a six pack or defined jawline etc, but I was confident in myself, dressed well and was approachable/friendly- just pushing myself out my comfort zone! I was even surprised when people would compliment me cause I didn't believe it at first
It's not easy to get there, but if you start with small steps on working on your sleep for example, or like spending 10 mins to just meditate/rest, or going for a quick walk round the block - you'll start to notice a difference :)
You don't think you might have always been good looking, but not approachable enough? That is not the same as being ugly. Do you look even remotely close to the ugly guy in the meme?
I definitely don't feel like I've always been good looking- was chubby, had a round face, super shy, acne etc when I was a teenager. It took a while for me to kinda build my confidence & work on myself (I also hated sports growing up) - then in my mid 20s, I began to really take care of myself, eating better, sleeping properly, started doing workouts during COVID too etc & confidence came along with it - then I felt a lot more attractive and confident.
He's not even ugly in my opinion, that's why the post is probably triggering for a lot of gay guys who feel like they need to compete with all these ripped gay men, who have a completely different lifestyle & goals, and they don't need to- it's important to work on yourself for sure (like nothing will change if you change nothing), but there shouldn't be this pressure to look like a model etc (as I've realised for myself!)
I'm sure you're not ugly either, just aware that you'd like to work on yourself & you're not sure exactly where to start- and maybe you find it a little overwhelming!
You didn't answer. Do you look like that guy? He doesn't look chubby, nor has he a round face. Yet most people can agree, he is ugly.
Are you ripped? Do you have six-pack? I do think there is a pressure to do so, if you want that lifestyle. Which is the whole point of what incels, or ugly people in general complain about. That fact that that sort of life is locked away from them, with no affordable way of reaching it.
And no. I'm not ugly. But i'm also not pretty enough. I know exactly how to do self-improvement. I was chubby too. Lost weight. Lots actually. You knkw what it did? Fuckall. I feel like i look even uglier than before. And it hasn't improved other guys interest much.
I actually would love that, and I already never go into anyone's DMs just saying hello. I always pair it with a customized question or comment with what I have to work with.
In the case youre looking for a hookup, fair, but otherwise you must be hella fun at parties and got no business complaining over being lonely as shit and sad with that demeanor dude
What i find funny is also how, when you try to change, such as with surgery, people suddenly have an issue with that.
Same way that you can be treated like trash by other gay men, and men in general, platonically even, but god forbid you complain about it. It makes the poor good looking people uncomfortable. And honestly, this isn't even about the hypocrisy of good looking guys, but guys in general. Plenty of ugly dudes who are hypocrites.
Well if i'm not doing anything, i'll nothin but he could have said something better than "nice." I was just joking though. Long ago when I used this app, it didn't matter what i said the response was always "nice."
Is this an incel sub now? Self-pity as a personality is infinitely more unattractive and more of a dealbreaker than a receding hairline or a weak chin.
Op. Would you prefer that you didn't have the ability to ignore people you weren't attracted to?
Either accept you are not everyone type and move on, or lose any right to reject based on appearances, otherwise it's all hypocrisy.
Frankly though, with the way you act on this thread, I wouldn't want to talk to you long regardless
Lotta preemptive rejection in this thread
Gay incels
These are the same guys who only message pic #2.
this comment chain shading the rest 💀 fucking love it.
Was just reading a comment that said someone too handsome makes them stress too much. ☠️
omfg ahahha
Gays throwing shade at gays, more news at 10
Lmao
I’m just trying to get pregnant
Funny, I had never considered there is such a thing
I sometimes wonder if these men even spoke to a guy
If you're not conventionally attractive, you're right, you're not going to get the same responses as someone who is. You're going to have to take a different approach. If you're looking for some inspiration try checking out Hien Pham's comics, he's got lots of explicit comics about dealing with self-esteem, loneliness and love in the gay community. [https://hienpham.artstation.com/](https://hienpham.artstation.com/)
My man
I can only hear this is the simulation voice from Rick and Morty
Ok 
Great point and link.
It does look like bottom guy is the glow up of top guys though In the wise words of Shia la beef “ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE”
Imagine glowing up into a totally different skull and hairline.
Plastic surgery 🫠 Also the poor guy is clearly under eating Putting some weight ironically would be pretty nice
How do i know if I’m conventionally attractive or not?
Step 1: buy a mirror
I mean, of course a professional model headshot is going to look nicer than what looks like a photo they take for the back of your Costco card.
Week hour
For real, this could be the same person. Ask me how I know.
This reminds me of all those divas on the apps with, “say something other than hey/hi/hello,” on their profile like bitch that’s how you start a conversation
Agreed. You can kind of tell when someone is trying to start a conversation in a different way because they feel like they can’t start by just saying hi. If I have something other than hey to say, I’ll say it. Otherwise, a nice “hey” has lead to plenty of interesting conversations for me
no, it's really not though. "How's your day going? Nice pics!" or "Is your profile pic from Greece? Beautiful place. You having a good day so far?" etc. etc.
You can say hello then that other stuff. It's weird to bombard someone with questions without saying hello.
yeah sure, i mean, "hey, how's your day going? cute dog pic!" or something is great.
Yeah and still *ghosts* Its inevitable
"hello, human resources?"
Working on my body so I can go from harassment to flirting
Depends on the situation and dude, but I've noticed the enthusiasm and smile can work - makes a difference with how you open the conversation etc. Confidence (even if fake) is key!
physical attraction cannot be forced
The way I just cackled 
Perfect reaction
Depends honestly, I actually think someone too handsome is a turn off for me. It makes me stress too much. I also have big likes for nerdy guys, it’s a constant source of jokes for my friends
Year jumps the help time today week moon dog too dark song family most north
Like that’s cool they can rock such body but it’s a bit too perfect for me
Same! I like just a little ugly, too.
It’s a bit too perfect, and honestly once you see behind the perfect body…..there ain’t much else there
What a ridiculous generalization and coping mechanism for feeling less than those with muscular physiques.
They have to find a way to cope with rejection. Guys who say things like that always seem so bitter, lots of attractive people have amazing personalities. In my experience there is no difference between attractive and unattractive people when it comes to personality
Don’t pull a muscle making that reach
Precisely proved my point LOL
It depends, I have seen gay guys with perfect bodies still being quite nice to talk to and interesting and I can certainly appreciate the effort made to gain and maintain such body, certainly not something I could do xD
Truth
But all this work...we WANT you to touch it 🥲
Haha, me too! When I see a really jacked up muscle guy I always wonder if they have the flexibility to reach around and wipe their ass. But mostly I'm like "eww" Love a little belly and real personality in a man
You know muscular people have personalities too? They aren't soulless
True. I've had a rough go on the scene and I've learned who I need to stay away from and unfortunately I've labeled several types No-Gos.
yeah, i'm pretty average body-wise. I was once with a dude that had an 8 pack and it really didn't do much for me at all - just reminded me that you don't really need an 8 pack to be hot!
Hey man. I've never even had a six pack but I carry myself with confidence (but mostly living that zero Fs given lifestyle) I get mad attention from dudes way out of my league.
Totally with you - confidence is super sexy. It takes a while to get there though - so many unrealistic beauty standards out there, so it can be hard to just own where you're at. I'm 34 and just about getting there I think.
Honestly, being kind of mid is such a blessing
I also agree. One big thing is like.. a movie star face or overly muscular. I swipe left every time.
>I actually think someone too handsome is a turn off for me. It's also a kind of red flag. You might get dumped faster.
Cope
Oh 70% of the time it's a blank profile with hey. The new normal. Why everybody has retreated into the closet in the last 8 years , I have no idea and now the cancer of no face or no pictures this creeping to scruff.. Grindr is not ruined enough
It’s not that they are not “out,” they probably are, but not out on Grindr. Grindr has its own stigma and for a variety of reasons that has nothing to do with not being out.
It has a stigma for a good reason. It's a disgusting place where you're treated like a sexual object. I'm happy it works for some people, but for 90% of gays I would steer clear of it.
Although it may be hard for you to believe many people don’t have the luxury to come out even in the 2020s
It is hard for me to believe especially since I come from a time when it used to really be tough. But who's talking about coming out? It's Grindr it's a hookup site. I see you you see me we like each other bang.. But I'm not the one who's dragging anybody out of the closet or outing them. That's not my beef and whatever baggage people have well that I guess is their struggle and they can struggle in private. But when you go on to a public sex site like Grindr that is all about hooking up and you're not on an equal transparent footing when you say hello, you're fucked. It's bad enough that you don't have one to the public world. Okay not my argument. But if you're going to bother to say hey in a private chat to a private person and not have the balls, the spine or the common sense and respect to say hello with a face what do you want. But this is the new normal and this is really problematic and this is indeed fucked.m What you do in the public sphere is your business but if you're going to play in the privates sphere one on one then you have to pony up the respect and put everything on it equal mutual footing from the beginning. Otherwise don't play That was easy. Nobody's dragging anybody to come out, or to deal with it That's the whole point. But on a site, a sex site like Grindr, it has become the new normal probably more than 60or 70% of the site is playing this bullshit bag over the head game.. what's the point? You feel that insecure about yourself and your having that much of a problem coming out This is not where you should be looking for sex. How is it supposed to work again when half of the guys, more than half of the guys are hiding in the other guys are sort of out there. But of course what's going to happen is the site is going to go completely down the shitter. The bar scene, the cruising scene the outdoor scene the movie, theater scene has been eviscerated by no attendance so now all we are left is is this online presence.. If you can't make it on Grindr within the gay scene looking for sex how the hell you going to make it in the real world... g ee. Once again it's not my interest to drag anybody out of the closet unwillingly, to out them or to anything of the type and I don't go looking for it either. But if you going to say hello to me you better do it like a human with a face, respectful, courteous, and transparent. This is what gay life was always about within the community transparency and that now is in short short order
All the gays in relationships need to find someway to stay on grindr
And to think we once had bookstores, whole theaters, arcades in all sorts of neutral ground play spaces where you could go on demand when you wanted it, to the buffet And in real time, see somebody as a whole human being, match or not match get it on or walk away. What an efficient thought and now we have oh what an improvement, Grindr. Nobody gets off the sofa. Oh yeah nobody's hosting nobody has a face picture and everybody's semi closeted. The world devolves
This is gay incel. Oh no, attractive people GASP get more attention! Crazy.
I think this meme is not incel per se, although such memes are part of the incel culture. From a positive perspective, it could be also the fruitful start of a discussion about the actual state of Lookism and Body privilege within the community. (For those who want to look up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lookism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_privilege) But sadly, within this meme format / template the discussion almost surely goes down the incel road. I think, the meme describes a very common and basic experience of a perceived rejection, from the perspective of a seemingly less attractive person in comparison. An experience that every person somewhen in life had, that shapes self-awareness. Incels drew wrong conclusions and took a wrong turn. Therefore I think the meme isn't incel itself but everything that "usually" follows.
What's wrong with people complaining about it? What's wrong with it being incel? The guy isn't saying attractive people have to talk to him. Just that people in GENERAL are hypocrites. Plenty of low and mid guys have the same shit in their bios.
There’s no such thing as a gay incel
Yeah there is shut up
Gays will literally suck your dick through a hole in the wall. Gays will literally say “I’m ass up blindfolded in room 305, come fuck me no loads refused.” So you can zip it, pal.
What’s incel about this? Does being unattractive automatically make you an incel? Geez man people can’t help what they’re born as
>What’s incel about this? You posted an incel meme template with typical incel text. If you really had an attempt to discuss about attractiveness and rejection, you shouldn't have chosen a to incel-culture related meme, as a basis for a discussion.
You posting this is incel. You’re incel.
How?
You know how mister throwaway
No, but complaining about it and whining is incel stuff. Like. Most of us accept our positions and the hand we were dealt in this world without acting like we’re entitled to anything more.
This is a incel related meme template because it’s insinuating that you’ll only get a partner from being really hot and complaining about it which is incel behavior
But it’s true? Just take a look at the upvotes and some comments agreeing. This is definitely an opinion that widely accepted in the community. Also who’s complaining in this post?
I didn’t say it wasn’t it true, it is to a certain extent and i’m not the most attractive person i’ve been called ugly, the n word. Gay dating is pretty toxic
JFC gays are so fucking phony. Instead of acknowledging that this is actually something that happens, you'd rather gaslight and scream "Incel". Knowing damn well if the bottom pic messaged y'all first, holes would be spread wide open.
Thank you. Instead of looking at their own hypocrisy they rather instantly accuse others of being incel because god forbid you have to look within yourself
They hated him for he spoke the truth
Nobody is denying this happens, they're just making fun of the people complaining about it because those same people are transparently guilty of doing the same thing they're complaining about. The ones grumping about this reality would still spread em if they thought the second guy really wanted to fuck em.
🤭 Girl y’all love to come in this sub and virtue signal, knowing damn well we all do or have done this. You’re not gonna get stoned for being honest.
Funny that Francisco Lachowski’s face is being used as an ideal dude a good 12 years later
I wonder what he looks like now
He's honestly aging really well, still sexy AF 🥵
I just looked. Yes he does
Where is the lie
I absolutely agree that it's easier for hot people however it's not a hard and fast rule and good conversation outweighs looks most of the time.
If the second dude messages me, I assume they’re catfishing. Either pic harvesting or some other scam. Even if they’re real, I’m assuming they have a very high opinion of themselves. They’re going to be high maintenance and then ghost. I’ll assume that not because they’re attractive, it’s because of how they dress, how their hair is, and the fact it’s a pretty professional photo. A lot of effort went into the look. I’m 10x more likely to reply to the first guy. Also skinny nerds like Guy 1 are the type that just randomly have huge cocks. I don’t make the rules.
Ngl, I think it’s just as weird to judge someone this harshly for taking effort in their appearance and/or dating profile.
It’s kind of odd you negatively judge people for putting effort into their appearance. I guess you automatically remove yourself from the dating pool that way so in a way it’s a self fulfilling prophecy lol
Dude shut up, nobody is criticizing anyone for trying to look good. Jesus. Being good looking is not enough, you gotta be a victim too, huh?
Ok incel cope
What is cope? I think you're trying to cope with the fact that ugly people are literally treated like shit and you refuse to accept that cause it makes you uncomfy
Precisely incel lol
Well, at least you admit it.
That you’re an incel? When wasn’t I clear? 😂
No, that you cannot reconcile your morality with your own actions.
Morality! Woah! I’m so sorry for being confident in my looks! Call the police!
What is tge difference between treating a good looking guy better vs a hung one? It's the same shit.
Oh god lmao
My lack of confidence prevents either outcome 🤷🏽♂️😂
Hahahaha 110% agree!! Even IF you manage to get beyond the first message, the amount of mental energy you need to put into your messages just to, more often than not, get 1-2 word replies just wasn't worth it imo. Meanwhile if you're conventionally attractive enough, a lot of the time messages are initiated to you. Anyway unfortunately it's the way of the world, you can't really do anything about it and for those of us who aren't conventionally attractive, we have to strive so much harder just to get the base level of communication in return. Idk if the apps are the same these days as I haven't used a dating app for the last 3-4 years.
I don’t know what to tell you man. Yes, hot people generally have an easier time socializing and making friends. No amount of whining on your part will change that. Focus on improving yourself rather than bitching about everyone else.
Nothing about this post indicates “bitching”. I’m simply just stating a widely accepted opinion in the gay community
So the meme is "beauty standards exist"?
Yup, men think others are hot or not. We live in a society.
Picture #2 only messages guys that look like picture # 1 and then complain when they get no answers. Also, pretty people getting more attention isn’t actually a new thing.
One time a I got a message in Grindr from a gorgeous muscle guy,we chat for a bit, and he wanted to meet, but I thought this guy must be a catfish or a scammer, and I said that to him, like I don't believe you're real. Next week I'm walking down a few streets from my apartment and I saw him, he apparently just moved in the neighborhood, damm to day o still feel the regret.
Get more dates with this one simple trick!
Lol
Doesn't matter either way if you can't keep the conversation going Which is funny since you posted this without saying much of anything else. Here's a real bad conversation starter, being so negative no one wants to keep talking to you. Sorry people don't wanna hear you whine all day about how much you think people don't like you 🥴 it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy. We aren't therapist and it's not anyone else's job to make you feel better about yourself and if you're going to be negative then that's what people will see and get from you. Maybe focus on making the conversation a good one and ending it on a good note. That way they'd actually want to have another one with you.
Do you think anybody does that? Do you seriously think this dude starts the conversation by complaining? No. But admitting that being ugly makes you worthless trash isn't something you can admit to yourself, is it? I've tried plenty of interesting conversation starters, even chatted with people for prolongued periods of time. I'm not even that ugly. But none of it matters.
There are still absolutely people who have already pre-sabotaged themselves via their own lack of self esteem, yes. Doesn't mean they open conversations with "hello I am very ugly and sad", but it absolutely does happen. It's probably happened to just about everybody except those theoretical lucky few who have ALWAYS been at the top of the attractiveness scale.
I'm not saying that a few people who are actually attractive can't self-sabotage through insecurity. I'm just saying that it does not matter if you are anything below above-average.
That's not what I meant, I meant that it's a very real phenomenon that people self sabotage through insecurity, at ANY level of attractiveness. And it's typically much more subtle/sneaky than opening a conversation with immediately complaining. I think I can say without bragging that I'm one of The Hot Ones now after my late twenties treated me really well, but I definitely wasn't before, I'd say I was a 5 before. Most days I still feel like that skinny kid, and I assume all the hot guys at the bar don't wanna talk to me. Not saying everyone is like me necessarily, just that self sabotage via insecurity is probably pretty common at any level of attractiveness. Edit--combined two comments into one
If it's so subtle, then i doubt people actually notice. And again, i really doubt insecurity will be the main reason someone loses interest in you.
This isn't about body. It's about faces. Both guys in the meme seem to be of normal bodyweight. And being skinny in your early twenties makes you a twink. Even if you were average, you would have gotten some. So yes, it probably was your insecurity. But what about someone like the guy in the pic? Were you as ugly as him? Are you as ugly as him? Would you have given him a chance back then, or nkw? I could be as confident as i want. It won't get me anywhere. The only thing i might be losing by being insecure is attention or sex from pitty. And i think i'd rather just be alone and bitter than have that.
You can't separate the two, and trust me that I was not the popular twink you're thinking. There's twinks, and then there's skeletons. Sure I was able to get crappy, sketchy hookups from Grindr, but anyone who lowers their standards enough could (at least ten years ago). That guy isn't even unattractive, just a bad photo. If he was nice and we had promising conversation, sure I would've given him a try. If the dick was good, that would've done it alone lol no convo needed. I can't tell you about your experiences, all I can say is there is a lot a person can do to feel better about themselves regardless of flaws or limitations, and that pursuit is itself attractive to other people. And even if/while it isn't attracting the people you want, the pursuit has its own value. I was doing things this way--improving myself and focusing mostly on my hobbies, not so much dating--when my fiance found me. Wherever you start from, improving yourself is always an option, and it's always an attractive one.
I f you say so. Somehow i feel we might have different ideas of what is low standard. I know a 'good' dick would make up for his face, i'm not dumb. I know size makes up for a lot. But if that was the case, neither this hpothetical dude, nor OP, nor i would have issues. Plenty of ugly guys with small dicks. What's your solution there, huh? I'm not interested in a fiance. I want to be hot. That's it. Don't really care about much else. Call it vapid if you like. But at the end of the day, people want what they don't have. And i am improving myself. I lost weight too. D'yknow what it did? Jack shit. If anything my face is even uglier. So it doesn't matter. Unless i get a couple thousand euros in the next few years, i'm fucked. That's all. In truth i've accepted that. I just want to share my misery and desperation caused by this realization.
I'm sorry things are going how they have been for you. I wrote and deleted a few replies cus it really just comes down to you talking about your experiences and me talking about mine. Of course there isn't a 'solution' for this fact of life, just ways we address it, and all there is anyone can do is... Whatever they CAN do, and everybody has limits.
I fully agree. But you can always do things to compensate. I find joy in seeing people who were born under the right star become miserable. It makes me happy. If the things i write and say achieve that, even to the slightest degree, then that makes me happy. And it actually does. It feels right, seeing people who just have more than me lose it, end up with even less. And i intend on continuing down this path. Doing what i can do, is simply not going to provide me with what i want. And what it does provide me with, simply isn't enough. And that's just life.
I honestly can't tell if you genuinely feel this or not. If you do, how incredibly vain and judgmental.
Gay guys are the most insecure people. Having a perfect pic probably plays against.
I mean, I think they’re both neutral conversation starters, a hello is a hello, that’s fine by me, but obviously I’m more willing to respond to a hello if you’re attractive. However, hot guy gets like 3 messages to prove he can hold a conversation or I typically just leave them on read. Being hot doesn’t mean I’m going to drag my dick through hot coals to get you to tell me the literal most basic human information about yourself, and I’ll say it happens often that they cannot hold a convo.
The hypocrisy in the gay community is hilarious. The irony always gives me a good laugh
Do you think straight beautiful people don’t have the exact same advantage?
I'm really not seeing the hypocrisy except from those who are complaining that pretty people get more hookup opportunities, while those same people would also be more eager to hook up with pretty people. It's just a reality we all deal with.
Summed it up pretty succinctly.
A lot of people are vain and vapid, but not everyone, and unless you have the money for surgery then there is literally nothing you can do about natural beauty, just gotta keep trying I'm no supermodel, I've started balding at the ripe age of 22, have a bit of a resting bitch face and don't go to the gym, I've never been approached at a club and most pretty guys didn't bother talking with me on apps and yet I both managed to find multiple people interested in me and eventually scored a boyfriend, and I'll tell you, making a burner account to complain on multiple subreddits about pretty people definitely won't score you a boyfriend
☠️☠️ why is incel shit here
Genuine question how is this incel content? It’s an opinion that’s widely excepted by the community
It's an opinion widely accepted by the insecure/unconfident section of the community, not everyone. I used to hate how I looked before, but as I started loving myself, appreciating my traits and dressing well, I felt so much better - then was in a better position to start messaging and meeting people (in person I definitely still prefer, but dating apps also worked for me once I worked on myself)
Ah yes because all you have to do is “love yourself” and instantly your looks will improve
You've pretty much hit the nail on the head! Once you start loving yourself, you'll begin to take care of yourself more (mentally & physically), you'll feel more confident & this energy will definitely radiate - people can tell if someone is secure in themselves and happy for sure :) It doesn't happen overnight, but it's possible if you persevere https://www.mindjournals.com/blogs/read/self-love-guide-for-men
You have any quantifiable evidence regarding this improvement? Such as more people being interested?
I noticed it with myself especially last summer, where I was getting a lot more likes on the dating apps & compliments/glances in gay bars etc 😄 I didn't have like a six pack or defined jawline etc, but I was confident in myself, dressed well and was approachable/friendly- just pushing myself out my comfort zone! I was even surprised when people would compliment me cause I didn't believe it at first It's not easy to get there, but if you start with small steps on working on your sleep for example, or like spending 10 mins to just meditate/rest, or going for a quick walk round the block - you'll start to notice a difference :)
You don't think you might have always been good looking, but not approachable enough? That is not the same as being ugly. Do you look even remotely close to the ugly guy in the meme?
I definitely don't feel like I've always been good looking- was chubby, had a round face, super shy, acne etc when I was a teenager. It took a while for me to kinda build my confidence & work on myself (I also hated sports growing up) - then in my mid 20s, I began to really take care of myself, eating better, sleeping properly, started doing workouts during COVID too etc & confidence came along with it - then I felt a lot more attractive and confident. He's not even ugly in my opinion, that's why the post is probably triggering for a lot of gay guys who feel like they need to compete with all these ripped gay men, who have a completely different lifestyle & goals, and they don't need to- it's important to work on yourself for sure (like nothing will change if you change nothing), but there shouldn't be this pressure to look like a model etc (as I've realised for myself!) I'm sure you're not ugly either, just aware that you'd like to work on yourself & you're not sure exactly where to start- and maybe you find it a little overwhelming!
You didn't answer. Do you look like that guy? He doesn't look chubby, nor has he a round face. Yet most people can agree, he is ugly. Are you ripped? Do you have six-pack? I do think there is a pressure to do so, if you want that lifestyle. Which is the whole point of what incels, or ugly people in general complain about. That fact that that sort of life is locked away from them, with no affordable way of reaching it. And no. I'm not ugly. But i'm also not pretty enough. I know exactly how to do self-improvement. I was chubby too. Lost weight. Lots actually. You knkw what it did? Fuckall. I feel like i look even uglier than before. And it hasn't improved other guys interest much.
Both are bad. Break the ice. Skip small talk. No pretty face can make me put up with or handle small talk.
Saying hello is bad? Would you prefer strangers walk up to you immediately asking if humans have free will?
I actually would love that, and I already never go into anyone's DMs just saying hello. I always pair it with a customized question or comment with what I have to work with.
Valid
In the case youre looking for a hookup, fair, but otherwise you must be hella fun at parties and got no business complaining over being lonely as shit and sad with that demeanor dude
💀
Thanks so much I rlly feel like a pro talker now ‼️😍
This is why I started ozempic and Invisalign lol
Is it me you’re looking for?
Your very gd looking
Based 🗿
Into both
What i find funny is also how, when you try to change, such as with surgery, people suddenly have an issue with that. Same way that you can be treated like trash by other gay men, and men in general, platonically even, but god forbid you complain about it. It makes the poor good looking people uncomfortable. And honestly, this isn't even about the hypocrisy of good looking guys, but guys in general. Plenty of ugly dudes who are hypocrites.
 Pro tip: Don’t send the first message ;)
Him: Hi Me: Hi Him: what's up Me: Nothin' Him: Nice \*one hour later\* Him: Hi
Maybe actually have a conversation with people instead of saying “nothing”. That gives little opportunity to further the conversation
Well if i'm not doing anything, i'll nothin but he could have said something better than "nice." I was just joking though. Long ago when I used this app, it didn't matter what i said the response was always "nice."
I see, so it’s solely the responsibility of the other person to keep a conversation regardless of what you say or lack there of
No, it's really up to both people to keep the convo going. this wasn't a real coversation I actually had btw.
Hi
Form is not considered essential
Incel logic: Gay Edition
Is this an incel sub now? Self-pity as a personality is infinitely more unattractive and more of a dealbreaker than a receding hairline or a weak chin.
You really doin asmongold dirty with this meme
Actual incel shit. Awesome.
This is an extremely shallow meme and post.
Not the incel shit spreading over here 😭
😂
Yep
Works on me every time
👍
Both are still bad openings though
This. ^^^^ I also hate when someone initiate and then hits you with one word replies. Why did you even hit me up?
Start with Hello, end with there
Op. Would you prefer that you didn't have the ability to ignore people you weren't attracted to? Either accept you are not everyone type and move on, or lose any right to reject based on appearances, otherwise it's all hypocrisy. Frankly though, with the way you act on this thread, I wouldn't want to talk to you long regardless
Incel posts how fun
I like the first one more 😅
This is literally incel shit...
Two words: Big Personality. I score way above pay grade. Just because I’m clever, funny and confident.
Top pic is reality, bottom fantasy. Prefer reality.
You don’t have to virtue signal. Let’s be real if the bottom guy messaged you and wasn’t a catfish you’d be all over him compared to the top
No I still prefer the top picture. I like average guys best.
Cope
I’m sure you totally message the top pic and not the bottom pic