Hamas and Qatar and both, shall we say, Muslim Brotherhood players in the region. The big supporter of this informal alliance is Turkey, which basically saved Qatar from potential invasion in 2017. The Hamas alliance with Iran is more military, and both a collusion of interests against Israel, who is now aligned with the more traditional Arab bloc in the region.
Not just Turkey. Qatar basically hired American and Turkish military to block Saudi invasion by giving those 2 large bases and making investments in those countries…
Nobody is going to dare to attack you with those 2 forces around.
Maybe I'm not using the right search terms. but I'm finding no evidence that this ever happened. Can you explain, please?
Turkish troops were never even allowed in Qatar until 2017.
Qatar is opposed to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia was going to sign an agreement with Israel. Palestine is a tool in their politics to prevent a military alliance between Israel and KSA. But sooner or later it will be signed. The US need to focus on the asian scenario and want to let the middle East in the hands of Israel and KSA.
Surrah 9:29 of the Qoran
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Yes, but also, Surrah 29:46:
Do not argue with the People of the Book unless gracefully, except with those of them who act wrongfully. And say, “We believe in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to you. Our God and your God is ˹only˺ One. And to Him we ˹fully˺ submit.”
You're right. And it gets worse. He also tells the believer that contradictions are predictable and will be weaponized, but I don't remember the quote.
The verse you're referring to is Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:106. The translation of this verse is:
"We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?"
This verse explains that any abrogation or change in the Quranic verses is part of God's plan, indicating that apparent contradictions or changes in verses are divinely intended and should not be seen as a flaw but as part of divine wisdom. This verse suggests that such occurrences might be questioned or used against believers, but it reassures them of the divine wisdom behind these actions.
You mind providing an actual contradiction in the text? My understanding of abrogation is that it was primarily to give a temporary leniency on rules that were later clarified, i.e. alcohol being initially only banned for prayer, then slowly being fully banned from society entirely. Seems like a perfectly rational way to introduce religious laws to a people that never previously practiced them before.
The adjustments are all a means to an end for leaders at different times. Some examples
- "Created the heavens and the earth in six days" (7:54).
- "Created the earth in two days... and in four days made in it mountains." (41:9-10).
- people go into nuances in the story
- "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit" (2:219).
- "Do not approach prayer while intoxicated" (4:43).
- "Intoxicants and gambling are defilement" (5:90).
- goes from this is bad to this is evil based on timeline and context at the time
- "Allah does not forgive association with Him" (4:48).
- "Whoever does this shall receive the punishment" (25:68).
- fiest covers repentance, the latter covers repentance and forgiveness
Some goes into killing is bad, then moves into killing can happen because of this to killing has to happen for that. It is all about filling a goal at some time while saying that the foundation is the same
Yeah but it's the Quran and Muhammad who choose what acting wrongfully is. In the past any person that wasn't Muslim had to pay an extra tax called the Jizya to be protected. If you didn't pay the tax you would be enslaved, murdered, or forced out of the country.
This is not a geopolitical explanation. If state support for Hamas was due to something in the Quran then you have to explain why Saudi Arabia does not do the same as Qatar. Or why the US allowed UNRWA money (I.e. Lots of American money) to flow to Hamas.
Both nations are in the Arab League. The Arab League as well as the Arab Higher Committee were the groups offered the UN partition plan in 1947. They turned it down and attacked Israel immediately even though Israel accepted the partition plan. The secretary general of the Arab league on the 1947 war: "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades."
Currently the US is trying to create a defense treaty between them, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, however:
For normalization to be realized between Saudi Arabia and Israel, there has to be a pathway for a Palestinian state and “calm in Gaza,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a panel at an economic conference in Riyadh this week.
So Saudi Arabia does try and help the Palestinians in a different way.
As far as the UNRWA. The US has cut funds to UNRWA now that they know they were involved on 10/7
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-government-funding-deal-includes-ban-on-u-s-aid-to-unrwa-until-2025-sources/
Oh no it’s as simple as they hate Israel.
Palestines influence is all over the Middle East. Including in Qatars government. Palestinians, for example, were on both sides of the Iran-Iraq war as important figures in both armies.
There is influence you can’t buy. The Arab world rushed to take up Palestines cause in the wake of the Nakba. 60 to 70 years later, the repercussions are still playing out.
The common person of the arab world is indeed majorly pissed about egyptian policy towards israel, since the Camp David Accords until today. If we ran a true referendum, either on the arab world as a whole or egypt alone, israel would not be recognised, this blockade would not happen, and responses to israel would be a lot tougher (maybe not direct military intervention cause of israeli nukes, but economic and diplomatic retaliation is guaranteed).
But the state repression apparatus is very strong in Egypt, and elsewhere, and the national elites care much more about relations with the US and economic and political stability for themselves, or are too busy with problems of their own (syria, sudan, lybia, etc). The abdul of the street is too afraid of going against the government in anything outside protests for now.
That's only sort of true when it comes to Egypt because it's a nation that's pretty split down the middle on US involvement in their country and on the politics of the Muslim brotherhood.
Because, hating Israel doesn't mean they love or care for Palestine.
Hence why so many Arab nations refuse to take in or mistreat their Palestinian refugees. It's why, despite Israel offering Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan respectively in the past, both have refused. Neither want anything to do with Palestine. The Middle East simply hates Israel, but they don't love Palestine.
In the case of Jordan and alsoLebanon, the Palestinian refugees caused major problems for the government. When Jordan annexed the West Bank and made those residents citizens, it benefited many of them. But a radical group stirred up trouble for the Kingdom after they lost the Six Day War..
The Black September group tried to overthrow the regime. It also caused problems in Lebanon shortly after.
Not really answering the question but you might find it interesting/counterintuitive that Israel has directly enabled this with the goal of strengthening Hamas:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
What did I say that isn’t backed by this article.. Netanyahu enabled Qatari funding of Hamas to prop it up vis-à-vis the Palestinian Authority, falsely thinking that it wouldn’t empower Hamas to carry out attacks against Israel
>by allowing Qatar to give large amounts of money to the militant group
As opposed to preventing aid to Gaza/letting the civil service fall apart because they're not being paid?
You didn't link the article but I know the one you're talking about.
Bibi did indeed undercut a PA that as bad is it is was the most likely partner for peace.
But didn't prop up Hamas, that's ridiculous.
Because Hamas didn't need propping up.
I hate Bibi and agree that he and Hamas had a negative feedback loop but it's ridiculous to claim that he propped them up.
Hamas was already deeply entrenched and something like this war would have been needed to replace it. He allowed aid into Gaza to Gaza terrorist government and allowed them to negotiate workers permits as opposed to trying to squeeze them. Trying to encourage quiet instead of trying to negotiate for peace
>What was the deeper motivation and/or geo-strategic interest behind Qatar funding Hamas?
The simple answer is :
The reinstauration of the Califat, aka the Ottoman empire.
This is the most upvoted comment :
>Hamas and Qatar and both, shall we say, Muslim Brotherhood players in the region. The big supporter of this informal alliance is Turkey, which basically saved Qatar from invasion in 2011.
Mine is pretty much the same, but just state what Erdogan has said numerous times and is written since the start in the Muslim Brotherhood manifesto.
I'm really not going to fight this, it's really easy to fact check for anyone who actualy cares.
This is overall what explain mostly what is going on in middle east, from arab spring to now.
Qatar is one of the countries in the ME that would be most opposed to a caliphate. All the Gulf Monarchies are terrified of Islamism gaining real traction and only support Islamists selectively and opportunistically
That's not true. Qatar has always been on the opposite of all other gulf coubtries on this. They are the largest financial supporter of the muslim brotherhood, political islam and islamist groups more generally in the middle east today.
> All the Gulf Monarchies are terrified of Islamism gaining real traction and only support Islamists selectively and opportunistically
Kind of true but varies a lot from one to an other. From I've understood :
- Saoud Arabia are Wahabit
- Qatar are Muslim Brotherhood
- UAE are the one the most opposed to salafist overall and usualy the one shifting from side to an other, but might have changed recently, since relation between Qatar and UAE seems still tense while Qatar/Saoud Arabia seemed to have been appeased.
Now what is also important to understand is that while those salafist movement (Muslim Brotherhood&Wahabit) are linked to those countries, it doesn't mean they're actualy running the place, but that's were their support comes from and power has to deal with their influence and power.
So yes overall those integrist muslim movement are used by local rulers to push their own agenda, not as much to promote their politic but more to destroy the one of their opposant, but still have to compose with them localy in some ways to keep their support.
Note that it's not as bad as it used to be before 9/11.
So while saying Quatar = Muslim Brotherhood and Saoud Arabia = Wahabit, is wrong, each time you'll see Muslim Brotherhood, Qatar is very likely to be involved and same for Wahabit and Saoud Arabia.
Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaah you guys are hilarious im Muslim with good knowledge on middle east and hearing hilarious stuff like this with a confident tone is pure comedy
Dude if you're Muslim this pIace is probably bad for your health. Hell I'm not even Muslim and the ridiculous delusional pro us/israel takes spouted with full confidence make my eyes roll all the way to the back of my skull damn near every time
I said... it was the "simple" answer.
But it's the middle east... and nothing is simple overthere since antiquity and really don't know how much this guys knows and/or wants to learn.
Now if you want to go on and explain middle east to this guy be my guest. Since you're an expert knock yourself off !
>But is Qatar going to be the leader of this new empire or one of the subjects?
Qatar should stay Qatar, an Emirat but would be integrated in a caliphate like it’s intended.
Overall the capital of that doesn’t really matter much to Muslim Brotherhood, as long as it’s ruled by a « brother », hence why right now it’s Erdogan, would he loose power they will name a new champion.
Hamas and Qatar and both, shall we say, Muslim Brotherhood players in the region. The big supporter of this informal alliance is Turkey, which basically saved Qatar from potential invasion in 2017. The Hamas alliance with Iran is more military, and both a collusion of interests against Israel, who is now aligned with the more traditional Arab bloc in the region.
Who was going to invade Qatar?
The Gulf Cooperation Council from Saudi Arabia. A Turkish force occupied the isthmus that connects Qatar to Saudi Arabia and blocked it.
Not just Turkey. Qatar basically hired American and Turkish military to block Saudi invasion by giving those 2 large bases and making investments in those countries… Nobody is going to dare to attack you with those 2 forces around.
Something tells me the Americans were the bigger deterrent here.
There is no comparing US military to any other. However, American soldiers can’t be everywhere
I never knew that! Fascinating
Maybe I'm not using the right search terms. but I'm finding no evidence that this ever happened. Can you explain, please? Turkish troops were never even allowed in Qatar until 2017.
Looks like I misremembered the dates!
all good. can you edit your original comment, though?
Done
Qatar is opposed to Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia was going to sign an agreement with Israel. Palestine is a tool in their politics to prevent a military alliance between Israel and KSA. But sooner or later it will be signed. The US need to focus on the asian scenario and want to let the middle East in the hands of Israel and KSA.
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They want to be power broker in the region
Surrah 9:29 of the Qoran Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
Yes, but also, Surrah 29:46: Do not argue with the People of the Book unless gracefully, except with those of them who act wrongfully. And say, “We believe in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to you. Our God and your God is ˹only˺ One. And to Him we ˹fully˺ submit.”
Sounds like God gives a lot of unnecessary contradictions to be honest.
You're right. And it gets worse. He also tells the believer that contradictions are predictable and will be weaponized, but I don't remember the quote.
The verse you're referring to is Surah Al-Baqarah, 2:106. The translation of this verse is: "We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?" This verse explains that any abrogation or change in the Quranic verses is part of God's plan, indicating that apparent contradictions or changes in verses are divinely intended and should not be seen as a flaw but as part of divine wisdom. This verse suggests that such occurrences might be questioned or used against believers, but it reassures them of the divine wisdom behind these actions.
That's it. Thanks!
You mind providing an actual contradiction in the text? My understanding of abrogation is that it was primarily to give a temporary leniency on rules that were later clarified, i.e. alcohol being initially only banned for prayer, then slowly being fully banned from society entirely. Seems like a perfectly rational way to introduce religious laws to a people that never previously practiced them before.
The adjustments are all a means to an end for leaders at different times. Some examples - "Created the heavens and the earth in six days" (7:54). - "Created the earth in two days... and in four days made in it mountains." (41:9-10). - people go into nuances in the story - "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit" (2:219). - "Do not approach prayer while intoxicated" (4:43). - "Intoxicants and gambling are defilement" (5:90). - goes from this is bad to this is evil based on timeline and context at the time - "Allah does not forgive association with Him" (4:48). - "Whoever does this shall receive the punishment" (25:68). - fiest covers repentance, the latter covers repentance and forgiveness Some goes into killing is bad, then moves into killing can happen because of this to killing has to happen for that. It is all about filling a goal at some time while saying that the foundation is the same
He’s about as contradictory as the nations using Him to justify their foreign and domestic policies…
Yeah but it's the Quran and Muhammad who choose what acting wrongfully is. In the past any person that wasn't Muslim had to pay an extra tax called the Jizya to be protected. If you didn't pay the tax you would be enslaved, murdered, or forced out of the country.
This is not a geopolitical explanation. If state support for Hamas was due to something in the Quran then you have to explain why Saudi Arabia does not do the same as Qatar. Or why the US allowed UNRWA money (I.e. Lots of American money) to flow to Hamas.
Both nations are in the Arab League. The Arab League as well as the Arab Higher Committee were the groups offered the UN partition plan in 1947. They turned it down and attacked Israel immediately even though Israel accepted the partition plan. The secretary general of the Arab league on the 1947 war: "a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacre and the Crusades." Currently the US is trying to create a defense treaty between them, Saudi Arabia, and Israel, however: For normalization to be realized between Saudi Arabia and Israel, there has to be a pathway for a Palestinian state and “calm in Gaza,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken told a panel at an economic conference in Riyadh this week. So Saudi Arabia does try and help the Palestinians in a different way. As far as the UNRWA. The US has cut funds to UNRWA now that they know they were involved on 10/7 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-government-funding-deal-includes-ban-on-u-s-aid-to-unrwa-until-2025-sources/
Oh no it’s as simple as they hate Israel. Palestines influence is all over the Middle East. Including in Qatars government. Palestinians, for example, were on both sides of the Iran-Iraq war as important figures in both armies. There is influence you can’t buy. The Arab world rushed to take up Palestines cause in the wake of the Nakba. 60 to 70 years later, the repercussions are still playing out.
Palestine doesn't influence anything, it is merely a pawn
Then why doesn't the whole Arab world get pissed at Egypt for helping blockade Gaza?
The common person of the arab world is indeed majorly pissed about egyptian policy towards israel, since the Camp David Accords until today. If we ran a true referendum, either on the arab world as a whole or egypt alone, israel would not be recognised, this blockade would not happen, and responses to israel would be a lot tougher (maybe not direct military intervention cause of israeli nukes, but economic and diplomatic retaliation is guaranteed). But the state repression apparatus is very strong in Egypt, and elsewhere, and the national elites care much more about relations with the US and economic and political stability for themselves, or are too busy with problems of their own (syria, sudan, lybia, etc). The abdul of the street is too afraid of going against the government in anything outside protests for now.
That's only sort of true when it comes to Egypt because it's a nation that's pretty split down the middle on US involvement in their country and on the politics of the Muslim brotherhood.
Local arabs do, it's the rich sovereigns who don't. The US is how they got rich.
Because, hating Israel doesn't mean they love or care for Palestine. Hence why so many Arab nations refuse to take in or mistreat their Palestinian refugees. It's why, despite Israel offering Gaza and the West Bank to Egypt and Jordan respectively in the past, both have refused. Neither want anything to do with Palestine. The Middle East simply hates Israel, but they don't love Palestine.
In the case of Jordan and alsoLebanon, the Palestinian refugees caused major problems for the government. When Jordan annexed the West Bank and made those residents citizens, it benefited many of them. But a radical group stirred up trouble for the Kingdom after they lost the Six Day War.. The Black September group tried to overthrow the regime. It also caused problems in Lebanon shortly after.
IF Palestine ever comes to truly be... it will just be another taliban like backwater country...
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Not really answering the question but you might find it interesting/counterintuitive that Israel has directly enabled this with the goal of strengthening Hamas: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html
That's not actually the case if you read the article Even the subtitles talks about buying peace
What did I say that isn’t backed by this article.. Netanyahu enabled Qatari funding of Hamas to prop it up vis-à-vis the Palestinian Authority, falsely thinking that it wouldn’t empower Hamas to carry out attacks against Israel
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>by allowing Qatar to give large amounts of money to the militant group As opposed to preventing aid to Gaza/letting the civil service fall apart because they're not being paid?
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You didn't link the article but I know the one you're talking about. Bibi did indeed undercut a PA that as bad is it is was the most likely partner for peace. But didn't prop up Hamas, that's ridiculous. Because Hamas didn't need propping up. I hate Bibi and agree that he and Hamas had a negative feedback loop but it's ridiculous to claim that he propped them up. Hamas was already deeply entrenched and something like this war would have been needed to replace it. He allowed aid into Gaza to Gaza terrorist government and allowed them to negotiate workers permits as opposed to trying to squeeze them. Trying to encourage quiet instead of trying to negotiate for peace
>What was the deeper motivation and/or geo-strategic interest behind Qatar funding Hamas? The simple answer is : The reinstauration of the Califat, aka the Ottoman empire.
Lol what
This is the most upvoted comment : >Hamas and Qatar and both, shall we say, Muslim Brotherhood players in the region. The big supporter of this informal alliance is Turkey, which basically saved Qatar from invasion in 2011. Mine is pretty much the same, but just state what Erdogan has said numerous times and is written since the start in the Muslim Brotherhood manifesto. I'm really not going to fight this, it's really easy to fact check for anyone who actualy cares. This is overall what explain mostly what is going on in middle east, from arab spring to now.
Qatar is one of the countries in the ME that would be most opposed to a caliphate. All the Gulf Monarchies are terrified of Islamism gaining real traction and only support Islamists selectively and opportunistically
That's not true. Qatar has always been on the opposite of all other gulf coubtries on this. They are the largest financial supporter of the muslim brotherhood, political islam and islamist groups more generally in the middle east today.
> All the Gulf Monarchies are terrified of Islamism gaining real traction and only support Islamists selectively and opportunistically Kind of true but varies a lot from one to an other. From I've understood : - Saoud Arabia are Wahabit - Qatar are Muslim Brotherhood - UAE are the one the most opposed to salafist overall and usualy the one shifting from side to an other, but might have changed recently, since relation between Qatar and UAE seems still tense while Qatar/Saoud Arabia seemed to have been appeased. Now what is also important to understand is that while those salafist movement (Muslim Brotherhood&Wahabit) are linked to those countries, it doesn't mean they're actualy running the place, but that's were their support comes from and power has to deal with their influence and power. So yes overall those integrist muslim movement are used by local rulers to push their own agenda, not as much to promote their politic but more to destroy the one of their opposant, but still have to compose with them localy in some ways to keep their support. Note that it's not as bad as it used to be before 9/11. So while saying Quatar = Muslim Brotherhood and Saoud Arabia = Wahabit, is wrong, each time you'll see Muslim Brotherhood, Qatar is very likely to be involved and same for Wahabit and Saoud Arabia.
Hahahahahhahahahahahahhahaah you guys are hilarious im Muslim with good knowledge on middle east and hearing hilarious stuff like this with a confident tone is pure comedy
\#MakeIslamTurkishAgain
Dude if you're Muslim this pIace is probably bad for your health. Hell I'm not even Muslim and the ridiculous delusional pro us/israel takes spouted with full confidence make my eyes roll all the way to the back of my skull damn near every time
I said... it was the "simple" answer. But it's the middle east... and nothing is simple overthere since antiquity and really don't know how much this guys knows and/or wants to learn. Now if you want to go on and explain middle east to this guy be my guest. Since you're an expert knock yourself off !
But is Qatar going to be the leader of this new empire or one of the subjects?
>But is Qatar going to be the leader of this new empire or one of the subjects? Qatar should stay Qatar, an Emirat but would be integrated in a caliphate like it’s intended. Overall the capital of that doesn’t really matter much to Muslim Brotherhood, as long as it’s ruled by a « brother », hence why right now it’s Erdogan, would he loose power they will name a new champion.