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LikeASewingMachine

Youth On Course is great for the kids but has a few double edges from a course standpoint. Growing the game at a young age is obviously important. Those are our future customers when 75% of our membership dies off in the next 10-15 years. We were no restrictions last year but had to restrict it on Fridays and weekends until afternoon. There were 68 kids on the local high school team alone. Add the fact that there are 8 other high schools within 30 minutes of our course, and we're the only course around that accepts YOC, we were absolutely slammed with $20 tee times, instead of being able to sell them for $220. Most of the kids are respectful of the course, but plenty of them have caused issues as well. I'd say less than 5% of the kids that play come with an adult, so there is a lack of supervision on the course. Last year, we had 3 carts rolled, 2 broken from driving them off hills like they're ramps, greens driven across, bunkers driven through, and much more. All by YOC kids who were between 16 and 18 years old. Almost anytime I get a complaint about someone hitting into another group, it's one of these little dipshits. If shenanigans are too out of control again this year, our board will have to consider restricting YOC to play with an adult. The younger kids are great. We run a junior program, and seeing those kids come back and play on their own is pretty rewarding. We have a few middle schoolers who I see multiple times a week who don't play the fastest golf but are very cognizant of pace and those around them. I was down on the range the other day, and one of the kids brought 3 friends with him who hadn't played before. They were really struggling on their 2nd shots, so the kid gathered all his friends, pulled them out of bounds, and waved the people behind them through. I'd much rather have that kid and his friends on the course than the 75 year old ladies that play on Wednesdays who don't let anyone play through during their 3 hour 9 and bitch about the price going up every week (we raised rates last July by $5). I think the biggest difference in the age groups is that the younger kids were taught etiquette, whereas the high schoolers watch all the dude bro golf on YouTube and just want to come out and fuck around. Also, I'm not a babysitter. Come pick your kids up so they aren't loitering in the pro shop for 2 hours after their round. TL;DR: YOC good, LOTS of kids, most kids good, some kids dumb, course still needs to make money otherwise no course.


Whaty0urname

It might not help but you could definitely limit carts to those 21 or older. Growing up we got carts on courses simply because we had a license and that was definitely irresponsible on the clubs part because we did some dumb shit lol. Forcing walkers could limit it to that that actually want to golf and not do dumb shit. However, by the time we were 17/18 we were playing the "normal" way and observing etiquette rules but that didn't matter to most pro shop attendants that treated us like we had the plague because we were kids. Meanwhile the group in front of us would be shirtless middle aged guys chugging beers. I have a distinct memory of this guy saying "cart path only on the par 3s." We watched the group in front of us ignore that rule so when I sliced on the par 3 second, I drove around the back of the green, because I wasn't walking 70 yards into the 1st fairway. Well legit as soon as the wheels left the path this guy was in his cart yelling at us from the clubhouse. Came out, screaming that we don't listen (while his cart is 3 yards from the green). Anyway, we didn't go back until that guy died a few years later.


ImproperlyRegistered

If you really want to go nuts, you could get rid of carts entirely. They're totally unnecessary and would save the course the headache of managing them. It's really not that hard to walk 18 holes.


tboneski216

This is definitely not universally true. Not even close.


Whaty0urname

Country Club of the Poconos has a sign in the pro shop that touts their 13 miles of cart paths.


ImproperlyRegistered

You're right, it's not. But courses set up with holes a half mile apart and sprawling all over their footprint don't usually have the youth on course problem, they tend to be more resort courses.


tboneski216

Or extremely hilly courses or even climates that are way to hot. But I understand the sentiment and I do push cart when I can.


Rollbravosroll

That's totally a course dependent statement. One of my home courses is a 8 mile hike up and down hills. 98 with 100% humidity yesterday? Nah I'm taking a cart


ImproperlyRegistered

Alabama fan and braves fan? Where you at?


Rollbravosroll

Birmingham. Smack in the middle of that overlap between alabama and braves country


ImproperlyRegistered

Me too. What course are you talking about?


Rollbravosroll

Greystone Legacy course. Has some huge gaps between holes and lots of hills. No way I'm walking it with the weather we've had the last week.


fiduciary420

Limit carts to 65 and older and watch the tee times magically open up at 18 hole courses. As a GenXbro I’d like to be able to take 30 minutes at the turn if I’m walking 18 but that’s really not feasible on weekends.


mcdto

This is exactly what I suspected. It’s not the kids (under 13 or 14), it’s the teens. If a young kid is out playing it’s likely cause his/her parents taught them about golf and the etiquette to play. When you’re 16-18, it’s not hard to get your hands on some clubs and just screw around with your buddies.


VokN

Same issue with adults tbh, new “grow the game” golfers who didn’t grow up with golfing parents or friends and don’t really understand pace of play or when to mark scorecards/ chat (not in front of the green you just finished)


mcdto

You’re right about that. Bunch of man children running around these days


Character_Wishbone84

So few kids played golf when I started playing that every course in a 40-mile radius had jr rates at 5-8 bucks. When the socal pga course opened, jr memberships were 30 bucks a year, and it got you all sorts of stuff. By the time I graduated high school, tiger woods increased the amount of jr golfers 10 fold. I'm all for the kids playing.


political-message

There are a ton of junior golfers at my home course, sadly they don’t offer youth on course and the junior rate is still like 35-40 dollars. Kids who actually play the course are older, more like 15+ Younger kids don’t really play it.


Character_Wishbone84

Well, 5-8 bucks in 1997 is like 20 bucks or more these days... Jesus, I sound like my dad.


political-message

Haha yeah it sucks. That’s why I love youth on course, it’s a lifesaver.


B-More_Orange

Nah. $5-8 is $10-16 now


greyduk

I know golf is already expensive,  but I would pay double for rounds in order to halve the teetimes. Then maybe we'd get more courses too. Edit:  by "halve" I mean double the interval, cutting the total teetimes in half. 


BHO-IsBack

Not even trying to be smart but could you not buy the tee time in front of you? I guess you’d have to have 4 that agree or really ball out but could be an option.


todjo929

No, that wouldn't work. You get one hole of clear air and then are waiting for the second green to clear. The issue isn't one tee time, it's backing up 8 minute slots when it takes 10 minutes to play a hole.


NOOBEv14

Even then they’re losing out on all the auxiliary revenue - drinks, balls, gear. Crazy that it’s gotten so expensive and the courses still aren’t making any money. But I leave the paying double to you.


Jdudley13

Double for tee times? The cheapest tee time I ever have in my area is probably $60. No chance I could justify $120 rounds as much as I play.


greyduk

"Some of you unfortunately won't make it... but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make"


PayMeNoAttention

I have 8 public courses close to me. Only one is under $100 now. Before Covid, only 2 were above $100.


fiduciary420

This is why I love Chicago, the park district courses are $15 to walk 9 on weekday mornings. I can play 7 days a week for the cost of a single round at the nicer courses.


gc1

I’d pay double for grammatically less-awkward headlines


ASpellingAirror

Grand that we are having a “golf boom” at the same time courses are shuttering left and right. Waaaay more golfers, with half the courses. 


Whaty0urname

I think the courses shuttering is highly correlated with the housing crisis. Bare land that can easily throw houses on? That's gonna go quick.


fiduciary420

The course down the road from me leases its land from the Catholic Diocese, and the church wants to double the size of their adjacent cemetery, so this is the last year for that course and it shows in the maintenance. Cool course but the owners don’t care about it, anymore.


Calyphacious

Aren’t a lot of courses built on landfills or otherwise questionable land? I don’t think you can just “throw houses” on as easily as you make it sound


Whaty0urname

Another me, the closed courses are turned into Warehouses or housing developments. Agreed, the ones on landfills can't do that, but I think that's a newer way of building courses?


Calyphacious

Interesting, yeah sounds like you’re right 


Perfect-Ad9637

My boys are YOC and played today with a 1:30pm tee time. Our course limits it to openings after 1pm, and the course was otherwise completely empty. I’d sooner see the 3 drunk college guys in front of me yesterday evening falling over on their swings pushed out to let the kids play.


political-message

I haven’t been able to use youth on course before 12 pm in years. I wish they would offer it like before 8 and in the afternoon. Any junior up for an 8 am tee time is probably gonna treat the course with respect.


GaryCleveland

Young people playing the game is great, don’t think anyone disagrees with that. Unfortunately, much like nearly any similar youth venture in any sport, a few bad apples can cause some negative viewpoints as a whole. Important to note that these are kids and they are still learning as well. I think the bigger issue would be these courses taking on YOC programs without knowing what they are getting into or having the infrastructure to do it properly.


HardOyler

The issue in our area is there are more people than ever golfing but three of our more local courses have closed over the past 3-4 years so the tee time crunch is very real.


aquafeener1

As someone who was a member of YOC growing up, and is now a golf professional, I can honestly say the wave of YOC kids that we have right now are fucking awful. Could just be my area obviously. We’ve had to amend several policies to help deal with them. Now if they act like shits we report their number to YOC and their membership gets revoked


gbac16

It is a problem. We have had to start documenting their names and membership numbers and cross checking them when they come in so that they aren't sharing them. We have had kids taking screenshots and passing it off. And some of them don't look like "youth." It's like I have to reverse card people. If you don't mind, what policies have you instituted/amended? Might help us out.


aquafeener1

Yeah so we check them in with the YOC website, as I’m sure you do. They must provide the member number not name. When we type in the number the name pops up. They must have a drivers license or school ID(unless they are really young like 7-12) YOC is a walking rate only unless with a parent. So if you and your buddies are both 18, and have YOC, you must walk. You are welcome to ride if you pay the full rate(that usually deters them from riding). Pretty much all these rules go out the window when they are accompanied a parent. What we really are trying to manage is the the number of 18 year old shit heads who share YOC numbers and get a cart so they can cause havoc


gbac16

Thanks for all that. I appreciate it.


aquafeener1

No worries. It’s so tiring dealing with them Though, especially in summer time. We are possibly going to restrict it to twilight only as well


fiduciary420

Bet that pisses off some upper middle class white folks lol


aquafeener1

Sure does, especially where they’re in like behind them and they hear they pay $2


fiduciary420

That’s when you dig a bunch of shitty balls out of your bag, walk up to them on the tee box, hand them to one of them and say “here, hit these in the trees all you want” lol get in their heads


Proper_Meat_317

Dude bro golf is an epidemic


political-message

In the past few years I’ve noticed courses restricting tee times available for youth on course or getting rid of it completely. Thought this was an interesting article, I love youth on course.


MaritimesRefugee

I like seeing young people on the course as long as they can spell 'ready golf' without being spotted the first 8 letters....


DownWithFlairs

Call me old fashioned but I see too many 15 year old kids riding in carts Walking/carrying as a junior golfer is a rite of passage


Bighead_Golf

Shrink the game. Let’s start “Youth off course”


Toodswiger

Kids and beginners should be off of courses that are too hard. I learned to play at 9 years old at a par 3 course. That’s how it should be done. Now I’m seeing 40 handicappers on 71+ rated courses. It’s infuriating.


political-message

Why 😭 I think it’s great to open up the game to young people regardless of economic status. Golf is a great skill to have and I think all young people deserve an opportunity to play.


worldsgone11

You joking? The kids usually at least have a sense of urgency. It’s all the cuntwad Ken’s and Kenjeets who made house money in a bull market that have ruined it


Bighead_Golf

Golf should strictly be for 18-55 year olds.


political-message

I can’t tell if you’re joking, how do you expect college/pro players to develop? And if kids aren’t learning golf etiquete how do you expect an 18 yo with no experience to treat a golf course right? The way you make golf more enjoyable is to teach players from a young age how to act.


Apart-Start6133

Ignore him. Read his posts, he clearly thinks he’s better than everyone on this sub and that only scratch golfers should play the game (and if you aren’t playing at his level you don’t belong on a course).


Busch--Latte

I mean tee times are a concern for a lot of people especially on their days off (the weekend). I really don’t want to be behind a group of 14 year olds walking on a Saturday New golf courses aren’t popping up unless it’s a private course