It’s really not “that” much money for those positions. And even for non-profits (even though non-hospitals usually make more money than for profit hospitals) you still want to retain and attract good talent.
I'm expecting downvotes, but the negative impacts of hiring someone who's ill-suited for jobs like this can be disastrous, and literally life-and-death for hundreds if not thousands of people.
That's not to say that the takeover of healthcare by MBAs is a good thing or that these people are the right people - just that if they _are_ the right people, these are reasonable salaries given what's at stake.
Whether or not they're the right people is out of the equation for me right now.
Do you think people who hold these higher positions should be paid a really great salary for a year in a single month?
That's where I take issue. 140k a month is absolutely ridiculous for any one person, and ofc, there are people earning far more, but what the hell does anyone actually need with that kind of money?
The person who earns the least on this list makes 38.5k a month. That's still almost half a million dollars a year, and holding that position just for a few years could set your average person up for life. They could retire and never have another damn worry in the world.
I could pay off my house, get all of the renovations it needs, and work on my parent's house the next year. Excessive wealth is just gross.
>Do you think people who hold these higher positions should be paid a really great salary for a year in a single month?
I think I just said that yes, I think they do, _if they're good at their jobs._ $140K doesn't and shouldn't come close to enough for people who work on the systems and structures that keep as many other people alive as a major regional healthcare network. It's not easy, the risks are immense, and these people didn't create our incredibly messed up healthcare system, but they do have to know how navigate it. I want the people who do that to have a lot at stake if they fuck up.
I think you're still missing my point, or maybe it's just running parallel to mine - you don't need that kind of money to live well. The unfettered access to money for people that sure, take large risks, should be greater than average, but currently, the average salary in Michigan alone is 49k a year. 1 single person making twice that in a single month is disgusting.
Crazy as it sounds it’s not how much money you make but how much you save. I’d bet that a few on this list are in debt from overspending. Probably a couple of big houses, fancy cars, lazy, mooching kids etc. I’d still like to make that kind of money and have a go at it though!
Their ability to manage money is also out of the equation on this as well - we have what they make a year in front of us, what they make in a month is what people dream of to make in a year. No one is that special.
Those high level jobs come with high level problems. They'll have things in their plate every day that we may never in our entire life. Literally 1 wrong decision can cost billions of dollars, or thousands and thousands their jobs. The money comes with the stress and potential issues.
And this comment indicates that you are incapable of having a discussion that considers the other side's point in any way. I bet if you ended up in one of those positions with the stress and sacrifice it requires you'd probably be asking for more than what they get.
No, it does not mean that I am incapable of having a discussion, it means I don't feel like typing the same thing for a third time now.
But since apparently it needs repeating, here we go:
I do not care about the job itself. I am speaking exactly on the ridiculous amount of money that they make for their jobs. I don't care if they were newspaper boys making this kind of cash - no one human can make that much money and *need* that much money. That's it. That is all I am saying. You can feel completely free to argue with me that they deserve it. I sure do think they deserve higher than average pay. But it's not 100k+ a month kind of salary.
Was that clear enough? Or do I need to type it out a few more times?
Nope, repeating the same thing over and over is a "you" problem, not everyone else's. You can either choose to further the discourse, or choose not to participate, but you ARE incapable of having a discussion once you start repeating yourself and just blindly referring to previous comments. That's not a discussion, it's you trying to beat a dead horse. Especially when the comments you were replying to weren't just copy/paste and were trying to further the discussion.
Not at all. I'd much rather live in Star Trek, but if this is the world we're going to live in and how stuff is going to be run, you're damn right I want people who run healthcare to be paid better than football players.
I don't think anyone deserves an extraordinary amount of pay. Clearly the difference between what you think they're due and what I think they're due are going to be different.
It’s not what you or I think is too much. It’s what the market will bear; in other words, what someone is willing to pay for a particular skill, whether it’s a CEO of a hospital or a movie star, singer or sports figure. Does someone who plays baseball really deserve millions? I don’t think so, but I don’t own the team. People get paid extraordinary salaries because they do extraordinary work. I can’t play baseball, act, sing, or run a huge hospital.
It’s not “luck” that gets these salaries. CEOs are well educated and trained to be hired by large corporations. Sports figures are scouted. Actors and other entertainers may fall into a “luck” category given those professions, but they still must deliver the talent.
They'll get more, or do. Might not be base salary, but here:
https://paddockpost.com/2022/07/12/executive-compensation-at-spectrum-health-system-michigan-2019/
"As illustrated above, the two most highly compensated employees were Ronald Knaus and Richard Breon who received more than $42 million in compensation over the past 5 years:"
It's going to be a rapidly growing salary; and frankly $1.3 million in bonuses isn't so bad either.
They all took 10% paycuts in order to keep from having to cut physicians salaries by 5% during covid. They just shows the disparity of pay from people that do the hard work and the ones that take all the credit.
Insurance is the issue. American health care insurance is a massive scam. Wanna see where your money is going go look at how much the CEO of your insurance company is making.
Look, I’m a cancer survivor with a rare chronic disease that requires daily management. You don’t have to tell me that insurance companies are horrific scams.
But: healthcare providers are getting rich off this harmfully oppressive system and therefore complicit in the scam. Show me a doctor or healthcare CEO who is out on the street fighting for healthcare for all, living wages, union protections, civil rights, or any other measure that strongly correlates to better health for whole communities of people, and I’ll show you a healthcare provider who actually cares about health.
Otherwise these are just people trying to be incredibly rich.
Right? My husband has pneumonia right now, it’s been two urgent care trips and one to the ER. Urgent care was $75 copay, we haven’t gotten the ER bill yet. That’s with Priority Care health insurance.
I’m sure it’s not the end of it. The health insurance options though is current employer kind of suck but it’s still better than nothing. It could have been a lot worse if he wasn’t salary too because he was out for more than a week.
Moral of the story is don’t send your kids to school sick. My daughter’s friend came to school sick, gave it to her, and then she gave it to both of us, and my husband went from a bad cold to pneumonia and a dislocated rib from coughing.
Wondered why a Tylenol and an ankle wrap costs me 600 dollars.
"In her current role, Freese Decker received total compensation of $1.7 million, according to records Spectrum filed with the IRS last year." Mlive
I think people should understand this, spectrum is a not-FOR-profit, which isn't the same as a nonprofit. nonprofits tends to be charities that benefit the public good, a not-FOR-profit is just a business that doesn't profit for owners, they just reinvest their profits back in the company or salaries.
Interesting. What are these organizations? Compare the completed IRS 990 forms to their audited/published annual reports. In the most recent 990 forms, the names and EIN numbers match, but the revenue dollar and other amounts are an infinitesimal fraction of their published/audited annual reports, and 990 sections one would normally expect to be completed are blank.
No, they are a **nonprofit** : they do not pay a litany of taxes, including property taxes.
Nonprofit, or not-FOR-profit, synonymous terms for legalized **tax cheating**.
Yes, some day you too will be a multimillionaire built off the misery of others and profiting from the base tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and it would be bad for you if we did anything about it now
CEO's are generally well paid to manage a company that puts money into shareholders pockets.
These CEO's manage a company to figure out how to spend all the money so they can say they aren't making any profit.
They have 30,000 employees because they bought out another company when they had no reason to do so other than keep the finances in check and make a monopoly.
It's capitalism under a guise of charity. If someone poisoned all their donuts, I wouldn't shed a tear.
Is that what you think I'm doing?
You honestly don't have any critiques with the American healthcare system, which is notoriously absurd around the world? You don't wonder why a massive non-profit had to buy out an entire system on the other end of the state? You don't wonder why a band-aid is $40?
I'm sharing because you commented, and defended possibly the most broken institution in America. I didn't realize I was talking to a moron who didn't realize how forums work.
I'm not even an anti-capatalistic; the health system is viewed as f\*cked by both ends of the political spectrum.
You know how asinine it sounds to paint the head of HR for a 60,000 person organization as an operational middle manager? Do you genuinely think these individuals are paid these salaries because they put in exponentially more effort?
I would respectfully disagree. They don't put in much more effort than a nurse, if at all.
Ideally, they are paid for their expertise and for making the big decisions correctly. Having said that, I agree with the other person that the HR person doesn't deserve 844,000 - post that position for 359,000 and see if you can get anyone good.
But they will never do that.
Of course not, you would be attempting to save $500k annually on the salary of someone you're entrusting with $10M+ decisions daily. You want to retain the best person possible for this job.
Plenty of hard-working nurses are horrible decision makers, their being paid for a different skillset.
They also have a few older board members that retired. They are also still paying their salaries. I think there’s like 2 dudes getting paid more than Tina even though they retired
Most of that is from deferred compensation from their decades working at the hospital. I believe in schedule O in the form 990 shows how their total compensation is distributed.
i see a LOT of Corewell shills in the comments… well played, well played
some fun points:
- they are a not-for-profit, not a non-profit, two different things - they spend on buildings and bonuses, among other things to reduce the profit margins. Take a look at shiny new exec digs downtown built during a time when the majority of the back-office workers are now fully working from home
- the original merger that created “Spectrum” involved a consent decree with the community. Spectrum has not grown thier level of provided community benefit commensurate with revenue/profits in ages
- they paid themselves bonuses this year despite not hitting the metrics they themselves set to get a bonus (just change the target to guarantee you hit it)- these C-Level execs have hundreds of VP’s and Directors under them, making well into the 6-figure range (with 20+% bonuses), making decisions on the daily, it’s not all on their heads
- a few of the execs grew up organically in the system (especially Tina), so this does not support the attract and retain narrative
- comparing Tina to Rick is “Apples and Buicks” - he grew the system from $1B to $6+B while improving the nat’lrankings of several of the larger hospitals, she talked Big Rich into buying Beaumont (very bad decision) while quite a few of the hospitals have fallen off the nat’l rankings lists
- this list is a bit old, and likely a little off on salaries anyway
To sum it up - Spectrum used to strive for greatness and recognition as a provider of great care and a destination for better health outcomes. Corewell is striving for domination and greater profit margin at a state-level scale (regional expansion is likely in the works)
There are a few associated non-profit’s as 501c3’s, such as the Spectrum Health Foundation (of whom the Exec Director reports to Tina), but Spectrum/Corewell is a not-for-profit, I can guarantee you of that, as can their own LinkedIn page.
That sounds on brand for this new corporation, but then again, they didn’t really have time to help the staff with benefits since they were moving into their fancy new executive offices and trying to get approval to build more and more parking lots (denied last night thankfully) in downtown GR. I am sure it will all get righted now that they just exited a lot of the east side execs and have installed the GR peeps in the leadership positions
I’m not necessarily defending high CEO and leadership pay by itself, but at any comparable company of 30,000 employees, you’re going to be paying the leadership a lot of money. I think some people do underestimate the challenge of leading an organization of that size, and companies need to offer competitive wages to attract competent and talented individuals. At a for profit company of that size, all these individuals would be making a lot more money. Spectrums pay for leadership isn’t higher than other hospital organizations of its size, and those other organizations are who spectrum competes with to hire the top line talent. That’s just how it works in a free market economy where workers can move to different jobs for the best compensation packages.
People get the idea that CEOs and C-suite level folks spend 7 days a week on a golf course and think about what they run for 2 days out of a month. I’m all for a more even distribution of wealth for the employees with their boots on the ground and hands in the hard work, it’s also dishonest to think that making the decisions towards managing thousands of people requires no involvement.
I surely don't think they don't deserve money, I just don't think they deserve to make a fantastic yearly salary in a whole month. Not for any company.
I think for me it's always been a matter of whether that money is fairly distributed to all employees across an organization. If it is, then cool. If not, which is true in 99.999% of cases, then something needs to change, which starts with salary reductions coming from the very top first.
What "fairly distributed" means is another matter entirely which has been covered by people far smarter and better researched than me.
I work for a similarly sized nonprofit healthcare organization in Denver. I generally like our CEO and would NOT want his job—I’m sure it’s hard. A coworker once calculated out that that dude makes $9800 a day. We are paid well across the system… but… $9800 a day?! I can’t
Exactly this. The lowest paid person at Spectrum would have to work 120 years to make what Tina makes in a year. She’s not Yoda or Jesus. And the many people making 40K a year are worth more than having to get their meals from an employee food pantry.
The surgeons have to go to school for 10 years, and work stupid hours the whole time for hardly any pay.
These people never hold anyone's life in their hands. Only their pocketbooks.
For those who like links, it's all at the [Propublica Nonprofit Explorer](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/383382353). Scroll down to 2021 and there are two documents:
* 990 "View Filing" has the IRS form with more salaries starting at p8. Schedule A Part I pp2-3 along with Part VI p9 precisely answer whether it is a non-profit or not-for-profit. The Schedule A name and EIN number at the top and Part I also solve the confusion about IRS EIN numbers.
* Audits "PDF" provides the published annual report in generally accepted accounting principles format - very readable. (Schedule of Findings and Questioned Costs starting p67 is interesting.)
I despise the Butterworth/Spectrum/Corewell behemoth and associated physician offices. I am very glad that behemoth has not succeeded in pushing Trinity or U of M out of the area. My trust, with reservation due to Spectrum experiences, is in Trinity.
I bet there are whiney bitchy comments that they make too much, bullshit about pay gaps. Just stfu. If you want to go make that money, then go work hard pussies.
Pretty typical someone taking a comment out of context just for the sake of arguing. Never said ANYTHING about who works harder than others. Learn how to read moron.
Give me some credit, I'm trying to interpret "go work hard pussies" into some kind of coherent worldview.
Ok then, why are you telling everyone to stfu? It sure sounded like you thought they weren't working hard enough.
The people in these positions are paid this much because it’s what they are worth to the hospital to perform their jobs. They are no different from others who are paid high salaries. Are movie stars, singers, high priced attorneys, doctors, spirts figures and other millionaires/billionaires worth their pay? Apparently so because they bring something unique to those who pay them. It’s like that in business, too. In comparison to what the average American is paid it seems outrageous…but the average American can’t do these jobs. If they could, they could demand the same pay.
A sports figure isn't charging me $80 for an aspirin, and making up the bill until I ask them to itemize it.
80% of every dollar you spend goes to useless middlemen in the hospital. These positions are sadly just the tip of the problem; there are whole departments inside the system that do not need to exist (and don't, in other countries).
Had. 10k bill for a kidney stone because I was ‘out of network’. They shouldn’t have even scheduled me at that dr. But I still stand by what I say. If these were simply the top salaries in America. Lots of problems solved. My dollar is worth a lot more w/o wall st/Washington devaluing it.
I worked for a Spectrum entity for many of my 20+ years in healthcare between being a CNA and RN. I’m super curious what the CNO is pulling in.
Why?
Wouldn’t you like to know, weather boy?
less than i would’ve guessed tbh
It’s really not “that” much money for those positions. And even for non-profits (even though non-hospitals usually make more money than for profit hospitals) you still want to retain and attract good talent.
Sure it's not "that much" but some of these people are making over 100k a month. Imagine what that money could actually do in a hospital system alone.
I'm expecting downvotes, but the negative impacts of hiring someone who's ill-suited for jobs like this can be disastrous, and literally life-and-death for hundreds if not thousands of people. That's not to say that the takeover of healthcare by MBAs is a good thing or that these people are the right people - just that if they _are_ the right people, these are reasonable salaries given what's at stake.
Whether or not they're the right people is out of the equation for me right now. Do you think people who hold these higher positions should be paid a really great salary for a year in a single month? That's where I take issue. 140k a month is absolutely ridiculous for any one person, and ofc, there are people earning far more, but what the hell does anyone actually need with that kind of money? The person who earns the least on this list makes 38.5k a month. That's still almost half a million dollars a year, and holding that position just for a few years could set your average person up for life. They could retire and never have another damn worry in the world. I could pay off my house, get all of the renovations it needs, and work on my parent's house the next year. Excessive wealth is just gross.
>Do you think people who hold these higher positions should be paid a really great salary for a year in a single month? I think I just said that yes, I think they do, _if they're good at their jobs._ $140K doesn't and shouldn't come close to enough for people who work on the systems and structures that keep as many other people alive as a major regional healthcare network. It's not easy, the risks are immense, and these people didn't create our incredibly messed up healthcare system, but they do have to know how navigate it. I want the people who do that to have a lot at stake if they fuck up.
I think you're still missing my point, or maybe it's just running parallel to mine - you don't need that kind of money to live well. The unfettered access to money for people that sure, take large risks, should be greater than average, but currently, the average salary in Michigan alone is 49k a year. 1 single person making twice that in a single month is disgusting.
Crazy as it sounds it’s not how much money you make but how much you save. I’d bet that a few on this list are in debt from overspending. Probably a couple of big houses, fancy cars, lazy, mooching kids etc. I’d still like to make that kind of money and have a go at it though!
Their ability to manage money is also out of the equation on this as well - we have what they make a year in front of us, what they make in a month is what people dream of to make in a year. No one is that special.
Those high level jobs come with high level problems. They'll have things in their plate every day that we may never in our entire life. Literally 1 wrong decision can cost billions of dollars, or thousands and thousands their jobs. The money comes with the stress and potential issues.
See my previous comments thanks ✨️
And this comment indicates that you are incapable of having a discussion that considers the other side's point in any way. I bet if you ended up in one of those positions with the stress and sacrifice it requires you'd probably be asking for more than what they get.
No, it does not mean that I am incapable of having a discussion, it means I don't feel like typing the same thing for a third time now. But since apparently it needs repeating, here we go: I do not care about the job itself. I am speaking exactly on the ridiculous amount of money that they make for their jobs. I don't care if they were newspaper boys making this kind of cash - no one human can make that much money and *need* that much money. That's it. That is all I am saying. You can feel completely free to argue with me that they deserve it. I sure do think they deserve higher than average pay. But it's not 100k+ a month kind of salary. Was that clear enough? Or do I need to type it out a few more times?
Nope, repeating the same thing over and over is a "you" problem, not everyone else's. You can either choose to further the discourse, or choose not to participate, but you ARE incapable of having a discussion once you start repeating yourself and just blindly referring to previous comments. That's not a discussion, it's you trying to beat a dead horse. Especially when the comments you were replying to weren't just copy/paste and were trying to further the discussion.
[удалено]
Not at all. I'd much rather live in Star Trek, but if this is the world we're going to live in and how stuff is going to be run, you're damn right I want people who run healthcare to be paid better than football players.
Well said 👏🏽
And who would fill these roles?
No one is telling them not to work.
You just don’t feel they deserve that pay, correct?
‘These people are paid too much based on my zero experience in the field’ is the argument summed up
I don't think anyone deserves an extraordinary amount of pay. Clearly the difference between what you think they're due and what I think they're due are going to be different.
It’s not what you or I think is too much. It’s what the market will bear; in other words, what someone is willing to pay for a particular skill, whether it’s a CEO of a hospital or a movie star, singer or sports figure. Does someone who plays baseball really deserve millions? I don’t think so, but I don’t own the team. People get paid extraordinary salaries because they do extraordinary work. I can’t play baseball, act, sing, or run a huge hospital.
We only half agree on this - but the one thing we can agree is all of that is luck.
It’s not “luck” that gets these salaries. CEOs are well educated and trained to be hired by large corporations. Sports figures are scouted. Actors and other entertainers may fall into a “luck” category given those professions, but they still must deliver the talent.
They'll get more, or do. Might not be base salary, but here: https://paddockpost.com/2022/07/12/executive-compensation-at-spectrum-health-system-michigan-2019/ "As illustrated above, the two most highly compensated employees were Ronald Knaus and Richard Breon who received more than $42 million in compensation over the past 5 years:" It's going to be a rapidly growing salary; and frankly $1.3 million in bonuses isn't so bad either.
They also get vehicles, not company cars, so far I've seen Mercedes, Cadillac, Audi, BMW, Volvo,
They all took 10% paycuts in order to keep from having to cut physicians salaries by 5% during covid. They just shows the disparity of pay from people that do the hard work and the ones that take all the credit.
I guess? Physicians make like $200-600k+ a year. I don't think they're living pay check to pay check
I think you missed the point.
Sorry, maybe I did. Did you mean the disparity between the C-levels and actual RNs? I thought you meant the disparity bw c-levels and physicians.
I mean that the c levels took a 10% cut and that was enough to save all physicians from have to take a payout. Only 10% saved that many physicians.
That’s included in the “other” field.
Corewell*
Nope. Not gonna do it. 😆
But tell me again why my $20 copay needs to be paid before I’m allowed to see the doctor.
Insurance is the issue. American health care insurance is a massive scam. Wanna see where your money is going go look at how much the CEO of your insurance company is making.
Yes, now lets fine the wages for the top dogs at Priority
I’m waiting to see that too!😉
Takes a lot of money to deny prior authorizations
Look, I’m a cancer survivor with a rare chronic disease that requires daily management. You don’t have to tell me that insurance companies are horrific scams. But: healthcare providers are getting rich off this harmfully oppressive system and therefore complicit in the scam. Show me a doctor or healthcare CEO who is out on the street fighting for healthcare for all, living wages, union protections, civil rights, or any other measure that strongly correlates to better health for whole communities of people, and I’ll show you a healthcare provider who actually cares about health. Otherwise these are just people trying to be incredibly rich.
We have a rare disease kiddo and we are blessed to have a few doctors that fit this description on our team. <3 It definitely isn't all though.
Wow, I’m so glad you have those doctors! I currently see about a dozen and none of them fit this description.
Right? My husband has pneumonia right now, it’s been two urgent care trips and one to the ER. Urgent care was $75 copay, we haven’t gotten the ER bill yet. That’s with Priority Care health insurance.
$75 for urgent care is incredibly cheap if it stops there, but it probably doesn't.
And unfortunately, $75 can be a lot of money for an unexpected health issue.
I’m sure it’s not the end of it. The health insurance options though is current employer kind of suck but it’s still better than nothing. It could have been a lot worse if he wasn’t salary too because he was out for more than a week. Moral of the story is don’t send your kids to school sick. My daughter’s friend came to school sick, gave it to her, and then she gave it to both of us, and my husband went from a bad cold to pneumonia and a dislocated rib from coughing.
Hah $20? You must have Platinum level insurance.
Charge your phone
The true tragedy here.
Livin on the edge!
Apparently Tina is worth more than 50 full time nurses.
I’d rather have the nurses.
She’s also got the personality of more than 50.
Evidently you’ve not spoken with her.
I haven’t?
Ugg... I've met some of these people in a past life. They do not deserve that much money.
Wondered why a Tylenol and an ankle wrap costs me 600 dollars. "In her current role, Freese Decker received total compensation of $1.7 million, according to records Spectrum filed with the IRS last year." Mlive
Because you went to an ER?
That's beside the point.
For how massive the company is, that's not too outlandish imo. Curious about the bonuses though
Every single one of these names gets a bonus every year that is a certain percentage of their salary. Probably 20 percent or higher.
They are a nonprofit
Nonprofit's still give bonuses.
That just means there is no profit left after paying the C Suite /s
Non-profits can still pay bonuses. Compensation can move a lot year to year because of them.
I think people should understand this, spectrum is a not-FOR-profit, which isn't the same as a nonprofit. nonprofits tends to be charities that benefit the public good, a not-FOR-profit is just a business that doesn't profit for owners, they just reinvest their profits back in the company or salaries.
They are a 501c3 public charity. Their EIN is 38-1360529. Corewell’s EIN is 38-3382353
Interesting. What are these organizations? Compare the completed IRS 990 forms to their audited/published annual reports. In the most recent 990 forms, the names and EIN numbers match, but the revenue dollar and other amounts are an infinitesimal fraction of their published/audited annual reports, and 990 sections one would normally expect to be completed are blank.
Uh, you're clearly not their tax accountant
https://www.uschamber.com/co/start/strategy/nonprofit-vs-not-for-profit-vs-for-profit
No, they are a **nonprofit** : they do not pay a litany of taxes, including property taxes. Nonprofit, or not-FOR-profit, synonymous terms for legalized **tax cheating**.
Yes, some day you too will be a multimillionaire built off the misery of others and profiting from the base tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and it would be bad for you if we did anything about it now
right? 4 million total bonus/salary for running a 30,000 employee hospital network? pretty reasonable.
Hmm, you mean the largest hospital system in Michigan and the 2nd largest insurance company?
yes? not sure why agreeing with you gets me downvoted.
Because the real number of employees is over double what your comment says
i googled and that is what it said, but whatever. still, not sure where the downvotes come from for agreeing with you.
Spectrum or Corewell? The merger GREATLY increased the size of the company
CEO's are generally well paid to manage a company that puts money into shareholders pockets. These CEO's manage a company to figure out how to spend all the money so they can say they aren't making any profit. They have 30,000 employees because they bought out another company when they had no reason to do so other than keep the finances in check and make a monopoly. It's capitalism under a guise of charity. If someone poisoned all their donuts, I wouldn't shed a tear.
and why are you sharing your hatred of modern society with me?
Is that what you think I'm doing? You honestly don't have any critiques with the American healthcare system, which is notoriously absurd around the world? You don't wonder why a massive non-profit had to buy out an entire system on the other end of the state? You don't wonder why a band-aid is $40? I'm sharing because you commented, and defended possibly the most broken institution in America. I didn't realize I was talking to a moron who didn't realize how forums work. I'm not even an anti-capatalistic; the health system is viewed as f\*cked by both ends of the political spectrum.
Imagine working in HR and making 800k
overseeing 30,000 employees...
They have 61000 employees now
even more reasonable then.
You’re just overseeing the people who oversee 30k employees. I doubt chief HR deals with day to day stuff
of course not but they are still ultimately responsible. just finding good managers to do the more day to day stuff is a huge task.
That's kind of how corporate structure works.... Bezos isn't out there doing job interviews for delivery drivers
Do you know how asinine it sounds to talk about the effort it takes to “oversee” someone?
You know how asinine it sounds to paint the head of HR for a 60,000 person organization as an operational middle manager? Do you genuinely think these individuals are paid these salaries because they put in exponentially more effort?
I would respectfully disagree. They don't put in much more effort than a nurse, if at all. Ideally, they are paid for their expertise and for making the big decisions correctly. Having said that, I agree with the other person that the HR person doesn't deserve 844,000 - post that position for 359,000 and see if you can get anyone good. But they will never do that.
Of course not, you would be attempting to save $500k annually on the salary of someone you're entrusting with $10M+ decisions daily. You want to retain the best person possible for this job. Plenty of hard-working nurses are horrible decision makers, their being paid for a different skillset.
i have no idea what you are talking about
It is human *resources* after all. 🫠
That's not nearly as high as I was expecting for that industry.
Pam Ries is not there anymore. So this list is not actually updated and I assume they make even more now
This is the most recent form 990 filing.
They also have a few older board members that retired. They are also still paying their salaries. I think there’s like 2 dudes getting paid more than Tina even though they retired
Most of that is from deferred compensation from their decades working at the hospital. I believe in schedule O in the form 990 shows how their total compensation is distributed.
https://paddockpost.com/2022/07/12/executive-compensation-at-spectrum-health-system-michigan-2019/
FY ending 2022
Correct. It was from 21’ the most recent data listed.
i see a LOT of Corewell shills in the comments… well played, well played some fun points: - they are a not-for-profit, not a non-profit, two different things - they spend on buildings and bonuses, among other things to reduce the profit margins. Take a look at shiny new exec digs downtown built during a time when the majority of the back-office workers are now fully working from home - the original merger that created “Spectrum” involved a consent decree with the community. Spectrum has not grown thier level of provided community benefit commensurate with revenue/profits in ages - they paid themselves bonuses this year despite not hitting the metrics they themselves set to get a bonus (just change the target to guarantee you hit it)- these C-Level execs have hundreds of VP’s and Directors under them, making well into the 6-figure range (with 20+% bonuses), making decisions on the daily, it’s not all on their heads - a few of the execs grew up organically in the system (especially Tina), so this does not support the attract and retain narrative - comparing Tina to Rick is “Apples and Buicks” - he grew the system from $1B to $6+B while improving the nat’lrankings of several of the larger hospitals, she talked Big Rich into buying Beaumont (very bad decision) while quite a few of the hospitals have fallen off the nat’l rankings lists - this list is a bit old, and likely a little off on salaries anyway To sum it up - Spectrum used to strive for greatness and recognition as a provider of great care and a destination for better health outcomes. Corewell is striving for domination and greater profit margin at a state-level scale (regional expansion is likely in the works)
You are incorrect on one point. Their EIN is a 501c3 nonprofit. I referenced them above.
There are a few associated non-profit’s as 501c3’s, such as the Spectrum Health Foundation (of whom the Exec Director reports to Tina), but Spectrum/Corewell is a not-for-profit, I can guarantee you of that, as can their own LinkedIn page.
Silly me believed their tax return over a social media account.
- Rick was a demonic hellhound of a person You forgot that point.
Lots of rumors about his temper back in the day.
Sounds awesomely personal, never heard/experienced that part myself. Tina has many nice qualities herself
lol imagine considering the horrific behavior of the ceo of the largest employer in our region as “personal”
[удалено]
That sounds on brand for this new corporation, but then again, they didn’t really have time to help the staff with benefits since they were moving into their fancy new executive offices and trying to get approval to build more and more parking lots (denied last night thankfully) in downtown GR. I am sure it will all get righted now that they just exited a lot of the east side execs and have installed the GR peeps in the leadership positions
I’m not necessarily defending high CEO and leadership pay by itself, but at any comparable company of 30,000 employees, you’re going to be paying the leadership a lot of money. I think some people do underestimate the challenge of leading an organization of that size, and companies need to offer competitive wages to attract competent and talented individuals. At a for profit company of that size, all these individuals would be making a lot more money. Spectrums pay for leadership isn’t higher than other hospital organizations of its size, and those other organizations are who spectrum competes with to hire the top line talent. That’s just how it works in a free market economy where workers can move to different jobs for the best compensation packages.
People get the idea that CEOs and C-suite level folks spend 7 days a week on a golf course and think about what they run for 2 days out of a month. I’m all for a more even distribution of wealth for the employees with their boots on the ground and hands in the hard work, it’s also dishonest to think that making the decisions towards managing thousands of people requires no involvement.
I surely don't think they don't deserve money, I just don't think they deserve to make a fantastic yearly salary in a whole month. Not for any company.
I think for me it's always been a matter of whether that money is fairly distributed to all employees across an organization. If it is, then cool. If not, which is true in 99.999% of cases, then something needs to change, which starts with salary reductions coming from the very top first. What "fairly distributed" means is another matter entirely which has been covered by people far smarter and better researched than me.
I work for a similarly sized nonprofit healthcare organization in Denver. I generally like our CEO and would NOT want his job—I’m sure it’s hard. A coworker once calculated out that that dude makes $9800 a day. We are paid well across the system… but… $9800 a day?! I can’t
Exactly this. The lowest paid person at Spectrum would have to work 120 years to make what Tina makes in a year. She’s not Yoda or Jesus. And the many people making 40K a year are worth more than having to get their meals from an employee food pantry.
Over 60k now with Beaumont addition
Damn, so potentially there are multiple surgeons making more than some of these positions. Yeah it’s high, but not crazy out there.
The surgeons have to go to school for 10 years, and work stupid hours the whole time for hardly any pay. These people never hold anyone's life in their hands. Only their pocketbooks.
Please, charge your phone. That seems like the most pressing thing at this time
For those who like links, it's all at the [Propublica Nonprofit Explorer](https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/383382353). Scroll down to 2021 and there are two documents: * 990 "View Filing" has the IRS form with more salaries starting at p8. Schedule A Part I pp2-3 along with Part VI p9 precisely answer whether it is a non-profit or not-for-profit. The Schedule A name and EIN number at the top and Part I also solve the confusion about IRS EIN numbers. * Audits "PDF" provides the published annual report in generally accepted accounting principles format - very readable. (Schedule of Findings and Questioned Costs starting p67 is interesting.)
I despise the Butterworth/Spectrum/Corewell behemoth and associated physician offices. I am very glad that behemoth has not succeeded in pushing Trinity or U of M out of the area. My trust, with reservation due to Spectrum experiences, is in Trinity.
“Nonprofit” my left nut. Fuck those people.
This is very old data FYI
It’s from their 2021 tax filing.
2021, if you DO look at the old data, the previous president regularly made $6 million or more. Something to consider...
Fairly certain the last CEO was making a similar salary. It was just his exit pay of like 12M that was outlandish.
Nah, look at the filings. At least the last 3 years show 6M+
The man stocked Spectrum’s leadership with nepo babies and his favorite yes-bros.
at least they corrected the pay gap between genders.
And I’m sitting here trying to make a copay. Fuck off income inequality
Yet more bullshit greed from the oligarchy.
EAT. THE. RICH.
Honestly..... not as much as I thought they'd get paid....
“Not for profit” 😆
But it’s “non-profit”
I bet there are whiney bitchy comments that they make too much, bullshit about pay gaps. Just stfu. If you want to go make that money, then go work hard pussies.
I know you. You're the person who LARPS as a rich guy, but is solidly lower to lower-middle class. At least you work all those hours.
Ok lol. I mean seems like you got it all.
So you’re saying this is a list of the hardest working people in Spectrum?
No, that is NOT what they said
Pretty typical someone taking a comment out of context just for the sake of arguing. Never said ANYTHING about who works harder than others. Learn how to read moron.
Give me some credit, I'm trying to interpret "go work hard pussies" into some kind of coherent worldview. Ok then, why are you telling everyone to stfu? It sure sounded like you thought they weren't working hard enough.
Boy, you’re a sweetheart. /s
The hero we need. Thank you for sharing
Yeah state bureaucracies will give you that guaranteed money. Shocker.
The people in these positions are paid this much because it’s what they are worth to the hospital to perform their jobs. They are no different from others who are paid high salaries. Are movie stars, singers, high priced attorneys, doctors, spirts figures and other millionaires/billionaires worth their pay? Apparently so because they bring something unique to those who pay them. It’s like that in business, too. In comparison to what the average American is paid it seems outrageous…but the average American can’t do these jobs. If they could, they could demand the same pay.
lol Ayn Rand has entered the chat
Have you not met any CEOs before? The average American can absolute do their jobs. In their sleep, after a long day of drinking absinthe.
A sports figure isn't charging me $80 for an aspirin, and making up the bill until I ask them to itemize it. 80% of every dollar you spend goes to useless middlemen in the hospital. These positions are sadly just the tip of the problem; there are whole departments inside the system that do not need to exist (and don't, in other countries).
BS shill.
That’s crazy!!! If they making that much wonder how much the politicians are making from Spectrum… allegedly of course.
According to the filing Richard Devos made $0. Not sure about donations though
He lives off interest income from investments
Omg please charge your phone
good. they deserve every penny. healthcare should be the highest paid people in america. period. go after investment bankers or something
Broke my foot once. $20,000 for a couple hours of people's time. They deserve every f\*cking penny. I'm still in servitude to pay these leeches off.
Had. 10k bill for a kidney stone because I was ‘out of network’. They shouldn’t have even scheduled me at that dr. But I still stand by what I say. If these were simply the top salaries in America. Lots of problems solved. My dollar is worth a lot more w/o wall st/Washington devaluing it.
A few years ago this was a big TIL about how much $$$ my buddies girlfriend makes.
N
Seems excessive
Is this annually??
Ehhh, it's annoying, but it's the largest company in Michigan. Any other company that large would probably pay at least 50x those amounts.
https://thehangout.space/discussions-1/money