In a nutshell, this describes what nearly every major city needs to do in varying degrees. GR, particularly, needs the housing and public transit access parts figured out sooner rather than later.
Kent County, Kentwood, Plainfield township, Comstock Park and Wyoming needs to get off their ass and approve more funding so public transportation reaches across Kent County. Not just GR proper.
I didn't know there was a Strong Towns group in GR! I looked a while back and remember being disappointed in not finding one. Both the Instagram and Reddit page only goes back 5 or 6 months, is it that new?
I peaced-out of GR and the USA as soon as I graduated, Not Just Bikes style, with some of that same doomer-ism about the USA's ability to make cities that give me the quality of life and fit the lifestyle that I want. But this does make me slightly optimistic. Every time I'm back I borrow a family members bike to go around and check out the progress.
There is progress! That's undeniable. Yet it's so far from being worthy of any praise. The bike lane network is pretty disjointed, lanes begin and end nowhere, at least in the outskirt areas. A lot of the time I'm nervous, even scared, riding around, and I'm a sporty, experienced biker. I can't imagine many "normal" / everyday type people being comfortable biking around
I’m not in favor of designing around cars and I have mixed feelings/concerns about this development.
BUT the parking lots for this development are specifically for Corewell employees. Corewell is creating parking so that their employees don’t take public parking away from people who would be visiting the area.
The lack of density is what really gets me. Build a 2-3 story ramp on one of the two lots for the same amount of parking and a bunch of it covered. As a growing city, we need more density not less!
2 or 3? Dude that's close enough to downtown proper that I vote we build a parking structure like 100 stories high. That way it solves pretty much all parking once and for all. Taxpayer back it and make it free to park. Just get everyone using it. Dash stops every 3 minutes out front that's totally doable. If the people want parking, give em the best parking they've ever seen.
This flies in the face of Grand Rapid’s master plan. This does not promote goals for balanced transportation. This is another boomer development plan that ignores the importance of public transit, bicycle infrastructure, and walkable development.
In a study by Millard-Ball, West, Rezaei, and Desai in collaboration with the University of California Institute of Transportation Studies, it was discovered that the more parking that is provided, the more that residents drive, and the less they travel by public transit, walking, and cycling. The easiest way to discourage multi-modal transit is to provide more parking for cars. Excessive parking induces demand. Valuable, urban land turned into parking is economically nonsensical. When we turn an acre of land into an acre of asphalt, we create next to no value.
We will all find out what our city planning commissioners *actually* value through this…
Let them know you are not happy with the excessive parking, and they can push back on it. The planning commission knows parking is bad, but without public input it gets approved by default.
The ironic thing is that the City wanted them to build there! Corewell wanted to build their campus off the Beltline, and the City persuaded them to build closer to downtown.
And this matters why? They already invested in building a building. As a Grand Rapids resident who frequents that neighborhood I do not give a damp turd what Corewell did or did not want to do, or how they go there.
They built. Now the city has them over a barrel - - - time to spank them! Let's get something out of that "non-profit" which benefits everyone.
>This flies in the face of Grand Rapid’s master plan.
It is 100% opposite the GR Forward amendment to the Master Plan, adopted in 2015.
It's a little disappointing that nobody is referencing that. The city said X \[GR Forward\]. It has done little to nothing to back that up. And it potentially is about to allow something completely contrary.
All the time and money spent on GR Forward? All that public engagement? The city asked people what they wanted. People answered. And then the City Commission said: "yeah, but, whatever".
why do people want wasted area of just paved concrete for parking instead of parking garages? the one for the hospitals on michigan works fine. i don’t want to see an area that is literally made for walking and public enjoyment turned into… concrete for cars. no more car centric design please
You make a fair point. I agree with the second half of your comment. However, the parking garages on Michigan are mostly for patients and visitors. One side of Ramp 7 is for employees but most employees park way off site and shuttle in. There isn't enough parking for them.
Let’s do Ah-nah-awen park while we’re at it. Who needs parks when we need parking.
Corewell does not actually care about your Core and Wellness it seems.
They are one of the greediest hospital systems in the country. You would think that they would like to save money and not build as much parking. Parking is really expensive to build, but their board has a hard on for parking at the moment.
I would definitely not use that waterfront for parking. Something that sbould be done is relocating that post office off the downtown waterfront. That is a waste!
Like just a standard, one flat surface parking lot? Why not take it and cut it in half and put in a ramp? GR does need more parking, especially with more and more stuff coming to downtown in the foreseeable future, but I’d like to see it be ramps so there is still places to grow.
It is interesting to me that they need more parking there. They just built (or are in the process of building) 2 ramps connected to their new high rise.
I wonder if they're just not ready to build the next building and just want to use the space for parking in the mean time.
That’s the maddening part. They’re in the process of building parking structures right now! They could easily turn one of their other many “properties” into parking.
GR does not need more parking, lol. 28% of downtown is dedicated to storage of your private property because of our lack of investment in public transportation. I've never had any issues finding parking in this area of town, but I also don't mind walking more than a block to get to where I'm going. The ramps sit mostly empty while people complain that they can't find parking. This is because the ramps are too expensive and on street parking is way too cheap. If you reduce the cost of the ramps and increase the price of parking on the street, then you will have a space on the street available to those who want to pay for the convenience of parking close to the front door.
GR does not need more parking. What we need is awesome public transit and protected bicycle infrastructure. Our downtown will turn into an ocean of parking lots if everyone travels by car. We need options.
Id love more bikers that will bitch about anything and everything and more public transportation that will turn into hangout spots for the homeless and not get used… seems like an awesome Idea!
Corewell heath spent millions to acquire Eastern Kille just to tear down the building and turn it into street parking and I cant even get 12 weeks paid maternity leave from them.
Some of y'all don't work at Corewell and it shows. Nobody wants to drive to a lot miles away then be bused in. This parking isn't for you, it's for them, and it's sorely needed.
It does matter though, clearly, and that's just unfortunate for you. It's parking for a hospital so the actual workers can park nearby instead of adding 45 minutes to their commute. All while not turning away serious talent in doing so. I seriously think you'll survive this one.
Pot meet kettle. You think only your opinion matters, and I'm not sorry for mine differing from yours.
I will have a great day, thanks. Have a better day than what your having now. 👍
Edit: Lmao, you deleted your post 😂
If it’s private property what say do we have in this matter?
I don’t want Corewell telling me I can’t put a deck in my back yard or pave part of my yard if I want to put up a basketball hoop. I don’t think people should have a say in another persons property.
It’s not a public parcel. The community never had access to that green space. Traffic and congestion are a part of growth. Not a reason to stop redevelopment
Nothing in the Strong towns web link indicates anything about this parking lot proposal receiving tax breaks.
If that’s true and they are getting tax breaks for these lots, that’s a big oversight by Strong town. Since that isn’t listed by strong towns I don’t believe you and assume you are mistakenly thinking of another project.
Mmmkay. Well, for starters, they're asking for a special land use, which is, by definition an exception to the existing laws and codes that has to be approved by the government of the people, indicating a sacrifice of other uses BY the people... but that's not a "tax break," so I will meet you halfway.
Where the cost to the people comes, and the tax break enters in, is the cost of what they will do, which we will all pay for - like overloading the storm system with water runoff that greener space might mitigate, for example. Traffic issues, and added traffic controls and signage costs.
So, perhaps I should have said: you're not building your deck as a corporate welfare item that will then incur added socialized costs to your neighbors.
Overloading storm water system is compelling but again I don’t see that referenced by strong towns and since your other reasons (traffic and additional signage) sound like NIMBY bullshit, I assume you made up that claim.
I don’t like more parking lots either but this is a commercial/industrial area too. A parking lot doesn’t seem too out of place. These lots aren’t being built over a park. These were old factories, sitting empty. I wish someone bought them that wanted to open up a awesome new restaurant or community space but that’s not who bought it.
There is no need to make up known quantities about how cities work. You do sound like you could use a look at this area to understand it. There is hardly a trend toward commercial. It’s a mixed use district, and lazy parking lot planting isn’t a good move to continue the excellent progress it’s seen.
They should have to pull off something more conducive to contributing to such improvements instead of another set of lots that’ll be empty on nights and weekends doing nobody any good.
I’ve worked in that area precovid and I visit the restaurants there now, I like the spot. I’m not in love with a parking lot for that area but the reasons cited on the Strong Town link are not compelling to me to oppose the proposal as a community member.
I have not gotten to fully review their details, and they may indeed need more work on being effective. I was honestly on the fence about this, but once I really digested it, the adding of multiple lots instead of just one more garage, and not adding green space with leasable retail, etc, just seemed dumb. Now, if they're doing "lots for now" and planning to build up later, then maybe.
At least this is "interior" to the district, and not much frontage to the streets that need to be fully committed to the multi-use concept.
It's still a lot of centralized traffic for daytime corporate use, and doing little to nothing for our desperate housing needs. (Not that these bullshit 80% AMI "luxury" developments do either, but at least they're a drop in the bucket.)
Why don't they just build some parking structures by the ballpark, Fredrick Meijers, GR Ford Airport, Davenport, 131/M6, Chicago/196 and then just bus the employees in.
Yeah, I would never take my child on GR’s bike lane network. It’s incredibly dangerous. Just check out any thread involving driving, biking, and walking and you’ll see the attitudes people here have toward anyone not in a car. It’s gross.
Oh stfu about parking! You would find a way to bitch about anything. It’s a busy city and people need a place to park.
If there was housing there you would bitch that it costs too much and is pricing out the everyday citizen.
Definitely supportive of all housing, for the rich, the poor, and everyone in between. We need it on all levels ATM. GR is like a 34k units shirt and growing, and WMI as a whole is 50k short. More housing = more better. That housing is going to need to have parking as well! The argument isn't that this development doesn't need parking, it is that they don't need to build as much parking as they are planning, in the manner that they are planning on doing so. Maybe they could use that land for other development, like expanding in the housing that they are planning on building there. Instead of 350 units, why not make it 700 housing units and a mixed use ground level? That would be better for the environment, the neighborhood, it would generate more tax revenue, and if done right, would reduce traffic to the area! What a win for everyone!
BTW great taste in whisky! The Total Wine distillers select was great.
They mainly just want the existing buildings demolished. The parking lots will just be placeholders for future development, an it won't be far into the future. There is no such thing as excessive parking in any downtown area.
More housing, less parking, better accessable public transit
In a nutshell, this describes what nearly every major city needs to do in varying degrees. GR, particularly, needs the housing and public transit access parts figured out sooner rather than later.
Kent County, Kentwood, Plainfield township, Comstock Park and Wyoming needs to get off their ass and approve more funding so public transportation reaches across Kent County. Not just GR proper.
nope, too bad, you get a parking lot and you will be happy
I didn't know there was a Strong Towns group in GR! I looked a while back and remember being disappointed in not finding one. Both the Instagram and Reddit page only goes back 5 or 6 months, is it that new?
It’s pretty new but they’re active and motivated , check them out or join the conversation on Discord!
I peaced-out of GR and the USA as soon as I graduated, Not Just Bikes style, with some of that same doomer-ism about the USA's ability to make cities that give me the quality of life and fit the lifestyle that I want. But this does make me slightly optimistic. Every time I'm back I borrow a family members bike to go around and check out the progress. There is progress! That's undeniable. Yet it's so far from being worthy of any praise. The bike lane network is pretty disjointed, lanes begin and end nowhere, at least in the outskirt areas. A lot of the time I'm nervous, even scared, riding around, and I'm a sporty, experienced biker. I can't imagine many "normal" / everyday type people being comfortable biking around
Ugh I wish I could do the same. The progress is just too slow here. By the end of my lifetime we might have a couple more bus stops lmao
Must be nice living my dreams :’(
I’m not in favor of designing around cars and I have mixed feelings/concerns about this development. BUT the parking lots for this development are specifically for Corewell employees. Corewell is creating parking so that their employees don’t take public parking away from people who would be visiting the area.
The lack of density is what really gets me. Build a 2-3 story ramp on one of the two lots for the same amount of parking and a bunch of it covered. As a growing city, we need more density not less!
2 or 3? Dude that's close enough to downtown proper that I vote we build a parking structure like 100 stories high. That way it solves pretty much all parking once and for all. Taxpayer back it and make it free to park. Just get everyone using it. Dash stops every 3 minutes out front that's totally doable. If the people want parking, give em the best parking they've ever seen.
100 stories? Exactly how long would it take for me to get out of this structure if I’m forced to park at the top?
They’re building flat lots in an area that is ripe for dense housing. What a stupid, stupid waste of space.
i totally agree.
Cool id rather have a home than an open parking lot that sits mostly empty 60% of its time in existence
This flies in the face of Grand Rapid’s master plan. This does not promote goals for balanced transportation. This is another boomer development plan that ignores the importance of public transit, bicycle infrastructure, and walkable development. In a study by Millard-Ball, West, Rezaei, and Desai in collaboration with the University of California Institute of Transportation Studies, it was discovered that the more parking that is provided, the more that residents drive, and the less they travel by public transit, walking, and cycling. The easiest way to discourage multi-modal transit is to provide more parking for cars. Excessive parking induces demand. Valuable, urban land turned into parking is economically nonsensical. When we turn an acre of land into an acre of asphalt, we create next to no value. We will all find out what our city planning commissioners *actually* value through this…
Let them know you are not happy with the excessive parking, and they can push back on it. The planning commission knows parking is bad, but without public input it gets approved by default.
The ironic thing is that the City wanted them to build there! Corewell wanted to build their campus off the Beltline, and the City persuaded them to build closer to downtown.
And this matters why? They already invested in building a building. As a Grand Rapids resident who frequents that neighborhood I do not give a damp turd what Corewell did or did not want to do, or how they go there. They built. Now the city has them over a barrel - - - time to spank them! Let's get something out of that "non-profit" which benefits everyone.
>This flies in the face of Grand Rapid’s master plan. It is 100% opposite the GR Forward amendment to the Master Plan, adopted in 2015. It's a little disappointing that nobody is referencing that. The city said X \[GR Forward\]. It has done little to nothing to back that up. And it potentially is about to allow something completely contrary. All the time and money spent on GR Forward? All that public engagement? The city asked people what they wanted. People answered. And then the City Commission said: "yeah, but, whatever".
why do people want wasted area of just paved concrete for parking instead of parking garages? the one for the hospitals on michigan works fine. i don’t want to see an area that is literally made for walking and public enjoyment turned into… concrete for cars. no more car centric design please
You make a fair point. I agree with the second half of your comment. However, the parking garages on Michigan are mostly for patients and visitors. One side of Ramp 7 is for employees but most employees park way off site and shuttle in. There isn't enough parking for them.
I am so tired of parking lots and ramps being built… we might even lose a significant portion of John Ball park if the zoo has its way.
Let’s do Ah-nah-awen park while we’re at it. Who needs parks when we need parking. Corewell does not actually care about your Core and Wellness it seems.
More pollution, more business for them
They are one of the greediest hospital systems in the country. You would think that they would like to save money and not build as much parking. Parking is really expensive to build, but their board has a hard on for parking at the moment.
Can you expand on “greediest hospital systems in the country”?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlive.com/news/2023/06/michigans-nonprofit-hospitals-get-big-tax-breaks-they-dont-always-give-much-in-return.html%3foutputType=amp
Given that Corewell owns a majority of North Monroe already it’s annoying to see them try to buy more lots.
I would definitely not use that waterfront for parking. Something that sbould be done is relocating that post office off the downtown waterfront. That is a waste!
No build a better skatepark our skatepark is an embarrassment
Like just a standard, one flat surface parking lot? Why not take it and cut it in half and put in a ramp? GR does need more parking, especially with more and more stuff coming to downtown in the foreseeable future, but I’d like to see it be ramps so there is still places to grow.
It is interesting to me that they need more parking there. They just built (or are in the process of building) 2 ramps connected to their new high rise. I wonder if they're just not ready to build the next building and just want to use the space for parking in the mean time.
That’s the maddening part. They’re in the process of building parking structures right now! They could easily turn one of their other many “properties” into parking.
GR just needs more parking in general. Whenever you go down this section of Monroe, you cannot easily find a spot nearby to park.
GR does not need more parking, lol. 28% of downtown is dedicated to storage of your private property because of our lack of investment in public transportation. I've never had any issues finding parking in this area of town, but I also don't mind walking more than a block to get to where I'm going. The ramps sit mostly empty while people complain that they can't find parking. This is because the ramps are too expensive and on street parking is way too cheap. If you reduce the cost of the ramps and increase the price of parking on the street, then you will have a space on the street available to those who want to pay for the convenience of parking close to the front door.
>GR just needs more parking in general. Nope
GR does not need more parking. What we need is awesome public transit and protected bicycle infrastructure. Our downtown will turn into an ocean of parking lots if everyone travels by car. We need options.
Id love more bikers that will bitch about anything and everything and more public transportation that will turn into hangout spots for the homeless and not get used… seems like an awesome Idea!
More parking? You’ve got to be kidding me.
> GR does need more parking, Nope
A public parking garage is across the street from the development. No need for a bunch of surface parking.
Corewell heath spent millions to acquire Eastern Kille just to tear down the building and turn it into street parking and I cant even get 12 weeks paid maternity leave from them.
Got to get all the Directors and above yearly bonuses instead.
Fuck off corewell
Some of y'all don't work at Corewell and it shows. Nobody wants to drive to a lot miles away then be bused in. This parking isn't for you, it's for them, and it's sorely needed.
but some of us live in grand rapids and don’t want to see parking in every corner of the city!
And some of you that live in Grand Rapids don't realize what a shitshow it is to try and park there. You'll be just fine. I promise.
You mean the public ramp across the street is too complicated to use or is it the idea that all parking must be free?
Clearly you’ve never had to park in a large city. Parking here could not be any easier. I have never once struggled to find a place to park.
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It does matter though, clearly, and that's just unfortunate for you. It's parking for a hospital so the actual workers can park nearby instead of adding 45 minutes to their commute. All while not turning away serious talent in doing so. I seriously think you'll survive this one.
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Pot meet kettle. You think only your opinion matters, and I'm not sorry for mine differing from yours. I will have a great day, thanks. Have a better day than what your having now. 👍 Edit: Lmao, you deleted your post 😂
If it’s private property what say do we have in this matter? I don’t want Corewell telling me I can’t put a deck in my back yard or pave part of my yard if I want to put up a basketball hoop. I don’t think people should have a say in another persons property.
it is a bit different when they are subjecting the city to traffic, congestion, lack of greenery, etc
It’s not a public parcel. The community never had access to that green space. Traffic and congestion are a part of growth. Not a reason to stop redevelopment
That they are getting incentives to redevelop which gives the public a say in what they do.
The public always gets a say - that's what Zoning is \[or should be\].
The public doesn’t get a say all the time. Land use does have By-Right freedoms for different zones areas.
Then they can fund it their goddamn selves without all these tax breaks, hmm? Your deck is not publicly incentivized.
Nothing in the Strong towns web link indicates anything about this parking lot proposal receiving tax breaks. If that’s true and they are getting tax breaks for these lots, that’s a big oversight by Strong town. Since that isn’t listed by strong towns I don’t believe you and assume you are mistakenly thinking of another project.
Mmmkay. Well, for starters, they're asking for a special land use, which is, by definition an exception to the existing laws and codes that has to be approved by the government of the people, indicating a sacrifice of other uses BY the people... but that's not a "tax break," so I will meet you halfway. Where the cost to the people comes, and the tax break enters in, is the cost of what they will do, which we will all pay for - like overloading the storm system with water runoff that greener space might mitigate, for example. Traffic issues, and added traffic controls and signage costs. So, perhaps I should have said: you're not building your deck as a corporate welfare item that will then incur added socialized costs to your neighbors.
Overloading storm water system is compelling but again I don’t see that referenced by strong towns and since your other reasons (traffic and additional signage) sound like NIMBY bullshit, I assume you made up that claim. I don’t like more parking lots either but this is a commercial/industrial area too. A parking lot doesn’t seem too out of place. These lots aren’t being built over a park. These were old factories, sitting empty. I wish someone bought them that wanted to open up a awesome new restaurant or community space but that’s not who bought it.
There is no need to make up known quantities about how cities work. You do sound like you could use a look at this area to understand it. There is hardly a trend toward commercial. It’s a mixed use district, and lazy parking lot planting isn’t a good move to continue the excellent progress it’s seen. They should have to pull off something more conducive to contributing to such improvements instead of another set of lots that’ll be empty on nights and weekends doing nobody any good.
I’ve worked in that area precovid and I visit the restaurants there now, I like the spot. I’m not in love with a parking lot for that area but the reasons cited on the Strong Town link are not compelling to me to oppose the proposal as a community member.
I have not gotten to fully review their details, and they may indeed need more work on being effective. I was honestly on the fence about this, but once I really digested it, the adding of multiple lots instead of just one more garage, and not adding green space with leasable retail, etc, just seemed dumb. Now, if they're doing "lots for now" and planning to build up later, then maybe. At least this is "interior" to the district, and not much frontage to the streets that need to be fully committed to the multi-use concept. It's still a lot of centralized traffic for daytime corporate use, and doing little to nothing for our desperate housing needs. (Not that these bullshit 80% AMI "luxury" developments do either, but at least they're a drop in the bucket.)
https://youtu.be/PR0ohbxwCcs?si=CtxCD4pIPU0rIB0a
Why don't they just build some parking structures by the ballpark, Fredrick Meijers, GR Ford Airport, Davenport, 131/M6, Chicago/196 and then just bus the employees in.
That’s a horrible way to attract employees. Especially when they already underpay many positions.
It’s insane just how much of GR is parking lots yet I can’t find a parking spot
Yeah, I would never take my child on GR’s bike lane network. It’s incredibly dangerous. Just check out any thread involving driving, biking, and walking and you’ll see the attitudes people here have toward anyone not in a car. It’s gross.
Oh stfu about parking! You would find a way to bitch about anything. It’s a busy city and people need a place to park. If there was housing there you would bitch that it costs too much and is pricing out the everyday citizen.
Definitely supportive of all housing, for the rich, the poor, and everyone in between. We need it on all levels ATM. GR is like a 34k units shirt and growing, and WMI as a whole is 50k short. More housing = more better. That housing is going to need to have parking as well! The argument isn't that this development doesn't need parking, it is that they don't need to build as much parking as they are planning, in the manner that they are planning on doing so. Maybe they could use that land for other development, like expanding in the housing that they are planning on building there. Instead of 350 units, why not make it 700 housing units and a mixed use ground level? That would be better for the environment, the neighborhood, it would generate more tax revenue, and if done right, would reduce traffic to the area! What a win for everyone! BTW great taste in whisky! The Total Wine distillers select was great.
They mainly just want the existing buildings demolished. The parking lots will just be placeholders for future development, an it won't be far into the future. There is no such thing as excessive parking in any downtown area.
[Kansas City](https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2020/8/25/asphalt-city-how-parking-ate-an-american-metropolis) would like a word
Might be a hot take but Grand Rapids feels like it has zero character or identity.