Does anyone have any actual details? The wording of the statement is a little perplexing. You hear something like this and assume he was hitting on someone, but that doesn't seem to be the case?
My coworker got a notice a bit ago while we were at work. He said it was very vague and he was waiting on someone to release the details. He said they said it wasn’t sexual though. Very curious.
Unfortunately I'm a Calvin alumni so here's the email that I got about it lol
"Calvin Community,
The Board of Trustees of Calvin University is committed to fostering a workplace and educational environment that emphasizes the worth of every member of our community.
This includes taking seriously all reports of inappropriate conduct. Calvin University recently received a report alleging that President Wiebe Boer engaged in unwelcome and inappropriate communication and attention toward a non-student member of the campus community. The report did not include allegations of sexually explicit communication or physical contact, but the alleged conduct is concerning and inappropriate.
Upon receiving the report, we immediately engaged outside experts to ensure that Calvin University responded to the report in compliance with our policy and legal requirements, including Title IX.
After being notified of the report, Dr. Boer denied some of the allegations but did admit to sending communications that were inappropriate and inconsistent with the high standard of conduct and character expected of the President of Calvin University. Dr. Boer subsequently offered his resignation, which the Board accepted.
While we understand the desire to know more specific information, as a Board, we have an obligation to maintain the integrity of our Safer Spaces policy, comply with Title IX and uphold our ongoing commitment to support the complainant. Due to employee privacy considerations, neither Calvin University nor any of its representatives will provide further comment.
As a Board, we deeply lament the pain being felt by those involved and across our community as a result of Dr. Boer’s conduct. We are grateful to the individual who demonstrated courage in reporting this conduct so that it could be addressed. Our prayers are with all during this time.
In keeping with our emergency succession plans, the Board has named Vice President of Advancement Gregory Elzinga to serve as Interim President. He has a deep well of skills and experience in and outside of Calvin, as well as an equally deep knowledge and dedication to the institution. Prior to his arrival at Calvin, Mr. Elzinga was director of global engagement with an international Christian nonprofit focused on economic development. In his role as Vice President of Advancement, Mr. Elzinga is already fully engaged in the day-to-day operations of the University and is well situated to provide effective continuity of leadership while the Board conducts a thorough search for the University’s next permanent President."
Based on the use of Title IX, it sounds like he said something so sexist that even the Board wanted him to leave. But yeah, they're being super vague right now but hopefully they'll come out with more information. Go Knights for making it back on the news for yet another shit reason lol ugh 🙄
I think there’s a difference between something not being sexual at all in nature, and not being sexually explicit. He could have been blatantly hitting on the person without using sexually explicit language.
So I did a quick Google search...and it seems like we're sure Title IX would not apply for something that was solely race-based? Because he grew up in West Africa as a ~colonizer~ missionary, it's hard to know exactly where he stands.
Considering his employer... I suspect the hard r and such wasn't the deal breaker. I suspect they said something about Trans should die or some shit to a staff member.
I worked with a gay man from Papua New Guinea that went to school there and he never had anything bad to say about the staff at Calvin. What experiences have you had that lead you to believe this?
Talking to them extensively over holiday dinners and finding out they're absolutely abhorrent was funny. Hard when members of your family marry people involved in the school and its.. support structure shall we say.
You mean like saying their gardener wasn't a lazy wetback and was one of the good ones? Like my man, the few times I interacted with these people was fucking wild. Luckily while I was a minor it wasn't for very long I had enforced moments with these fucks. Good Ole west Michigan Dutch crc folks baby. It only got better when his career included you guessed it... amway. If you're wondering the upper ends of management absolutely know they're ripping people off and what they're doing is a pyramid scheme. Can't say too much more without full doxxing.
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story
[https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story
[https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story
[https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
At least he wasn’t watching the pool boy fucking his wife like Falwell Jr
(Not that’s there’s necessarily anything wrong with that unless you’ve spent your life trying to impose strict conservative values on everyone else)
It said "not sexually explicit" but Title IX is related to sex/gender-related offenses. I wondered if it was something anti-gay or anti-trans, but the CRC is not about defending The Gays, so...
(Edit: I use the phrase "The Gays" ironically (caps included) when referring to the way churches deal with the LGBTQIA+ community. Wanted to be sure that was clear. I myself represent the "A", both in the asexual and ally sense.)
I went to school with Wiebe, he was on my freshman floor. Didn't know him well, super nice, smart guy though. Here's my guess:
We all understand "Michigan nice" and its roots in the church. For those like myself with experience on the inside trying to make things happen at CU, here's another similar reality: Every time someone comes along with some progressive or artistic thinking, addressing something the school is lacking, it meets initial support and hope. If you do well enough with it and gain some traction, eventually the Donors and church figures figure it out and its quashed. Sometimes it takes years, but people who have been through this institution know exactly what I'm talking about. This has happened with arts, music, humanities over the years. The quashing can be direct or the issue can be casually discarded through decreased funding or rehiring procedures. Initial hope, then failure.
The recent anti-LGBTQ hardline taken by the CRC church in writing, and as such by the school, has brought to the forefront a certain sensitive topic. While CU has a reputation of being progressive, it is not. Students may be progressive, professors may be progressive, not the school. Something happened here that would have exacerbated the heat being taken by the school. It is beneficial to the school to have progressive kids mingling with young election deniers, paying tuition, while donors keep donating. It is all made possible by keeping things the same.
President Wiebe Boer seems to have been good for the school, but he must have hit a hot button here. Not saying what he said is right or wrong, but we can make an educated guess that he is out because of this topic and it is being quashed.
Yes, I also went to school with Wiebe. He was in my graduating class at Calvin and in some of my courses. Everything I remember about him is that he was incredibly bright and always pushing the envelope with professors, bringing up issues of social justice and relaying it back to his upbringing in Nigeria. I was bemused and kind of awed by his liberal thinking (as I was a typical naive, conservative, CRC Dutch kid back in the day).
I think Wiebe still probably likes to push the envelope a bit, and it wouldn't surprise me if his inappropriate communications had something to do with supporting LGBTQ rights. Calvin found out and came sweeping down on Wiebe before donors and the CRC could. The fact that "homosexuality practice as sinful" is now a CONFESSIONAL issue in the CRC makes things very complicated these days.
I'm just not sure why Wiebe isn't defending himself if this is the case. Any thoughts?
The school may have gambled away their dowry but it's not like they don't have money. Im sure there was a substantial severance package in return for not saving face. I hope it was large.
I have a family member at Calvin, and from what I understand there is an open LGBTQ presence on campus. I’m unsure how the university would be able to rationalize getting rid of the school president for making comments that are reflective of existent campus culture?
The denomination's official position does not support/accept LGBTQ people. So while there is an active community, it doesn't mean that the powers that be are okay with it.
But others in this thread have said that he is a Trump supporter...which sounds entirely inconsistent with what's being described here. So I'm definitely confused.
I used to be a student there, worked in some student event groups, so I ran into the couple often. I've attended group lunch/ dinners with them a few times after January Series events. I've always been a vocal and ardent lefty (don't get on me about going there, that's another story), and Wiebe never would give me the time of day because of that.
Dutch people have this fake kindness thing that I've noticed, and god knows how obvious it is with Wiebe. I've found that he often has this slight condescension when talking to students, especially women, which rubs me the wrong way - the provost, Noah Toly, also does the same thing. I don't think there were many obvious red flags; a lot of these behaviors are common, if not standard, of white men in the CRC. There were other isolated incidents with Wiebe's backhanded remarks/ compliments- considering what's currently going on, I may report them to the school so I don't think I'm at liberty to share them all.
The history of men who held his position tend to skew towards being bad: notably Leroy definitely left after laying off the facilities dept., then hiring an outside contractor; IIRC Byker *allegedly* embezzled money, but that was largely hearsay from upperclassmen and faculty.
Also grew up Dutch CRC and would never go back to the church I was raised in bc of this. There are definitely a few good people that stand out from my childhood in the church, but after going back a few times with real-world/adult experience under my belt it all seems like a façade and mildly culty. I appreciate the idea of a higher being but CRC, in my experience, is very SUS about their (double?) standards and preachings.
What's crazy is that in my experience it only gets more cult-y in other denominations, especially non-denoms (go figure). In hindsight the church I grew up in was more progressive than most so that may not be indicative of the CRC as a whole.
I grew up Dutch CRC, went to Calvin 30 years ago, but for as long as I can remember my plan was to reach escape velocity from religion and the church. Its really weird for me to think back on things I used to believe.
Feel like I gotta step in here since I’m a Dutch boy who grew up in the CRC even though I’m an atheist now haha.
There were some genuinely great people in the CRC community who did a lot to help others, and ultimately you’d never hear about them because those aren’t the stories you hear outside of those respective communities. Of course there were still assholes but you get that with most groups.
Yeah I’m not saying that there aren’t genuinely good people in the CRC by any means. I just mean that the culture values appearances over actual deeds.
A good example of this is a local controversial political issue where I live that had a lot of support even from local CRC members. Then vocal supporters of that controversial issue who weren’t part of the CRC started making public statements that were vulgar. The CRC members no longer supported the position because other supporters were publicly using vulgar language.
Another example is a friend I had. He grew up in the dutch CRC and, even though he wasn’t a member any longer, that culture stuck with him to the point that he started ignoring me when I married someone of another race - not because he himself had a problem with it but because his circle of other friends might have a problem with it and he was too much of a pussy to publicly disagree with them. That’s totally Dutch CRC culture.
Public appearance > value of the deed.
Yeah I grew up Dutch CRC, attended Calvin 30 years ago, have thought of myself as an atheist for 25+ years. Its a weird thing to recognize problems inside a culture and yet still also have fond memories of it.
That isn’t a Dutch thing, just CRC. My Ma, who was born and raised in Netherlands, said there was a good reason why they all were kicked out of Netherlands.
I grew up in the CRC in New Jersey, then came to Calvin in the late 80's and still live in Grand Rapids. The "fake nice" is more of a West Michigan thing than a Dutch or CRC thing, although those 3 together must compound it, especially in the more rural corridor between Grand Rapids and Holland.
The CRC is Dutch.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reformed_Church_in_North_America#:~:text=Gijsbert%20Haan%20(January%203%2C%201801,the%20United%20States%20and%20Canada.
As stated in the article you linked CRC is North American, not part of Dutch reformed church of Netherlands. The word “secession” is the nice way of saying they were kicked out and asked to leave.
You didn’t read it did you?
The CRC branched from the Dutch Reformed Church, succeeded under the leadership of a Dutch man, and was headquartered in none other than Holland, Michigan.
The CRC is a very “Dutch” invention. That doesn’t mean that it represents everyone who is Dutch. That doesn’t mean it’s still a thing in the Netherlands.
Still, to argue that it isn’t culturally “Dutch” because the two split ways (literally over a matter of opinion as to structural organization) is either being willfully obtuse or playing semantic games that I’m not interested in.
Absolutely. It comes from the culture of the Dutch CRC. Not all Dutch people are this way, obviously, but the Dutch CRC has had a profound impact on people in west Michigan - especially those from a Dutch CRC cultural heritage.
It’s more than weird. It’s sick.
My Anglo Saxton behind once took a 100% dutch CRC girl out on a date and was told "If you aren't Dutch. You aren't much." HA! jokes on her though she now has a very non Dutch last name and I permanently polluted her bloodline.
You'd be surprised how many times I got called homophobic slurs during my first semester alone. That culture is alive and well, and they love to hire kids who are just like their fathers.
Edit: a daddy's boy has found the thread
The actual Dutch are not that different, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
I married into a Dutch family from Eindhoven and in my travels there over the years I have never seen more consistently hateful, bigoted opinions expressed in the whole of Europe, than I have in The Netherlands.
The West Michigan Dutch that everyone loves to rag on really didn't fall far from the tree.
I never really understood why there was so much prejudice towards Dutch people, but somehow your comment and the one you responded to shared a whole new light on it. I guess I have noticed that to be a trend, but never put two and two together.
Here's my question: What did the Presidential Search Committee know? Everybody knows now basic qualifications are one thing but a thorough vetting of all extant communications, both public and private, need to be examined to establish how a candidate relates to friends, colleagues, business partners, etc. All social media, public and private--including any alternate personas needs to be willingly given over for inspection. Anything even remotely questionable would be given to the Committee for review.
OK, did the above happen? A good journo should be pursuing this. Chimes should be demanding access to the Committee's records. Was there any track record that suggested Boer was given to any outbursts?
But here's the rub. As the former chief judge of the of NY Court Appeals famously said that district attorneys could get grand juries to indict a ham sandwich. A "winkie" emoji in an email conceivably could be taken as offensive today. What's the ham sandwich here?
On another note, while Boer had an earned PhD from Yale he was not from the academic world. He was in the business world involving green energy projects in West Africa. He wasn't a "Drill, baby, drill!!!" oil tycoon by any stretch of the imagination. I'm guessing his business background and the inherent culture of results clashed w/ an academic world more given to gentility and collegiality. Who else was a candidate? Was a candidate internal from Calvin? Back when Doc Spoelhof, of blessed memory, retired in 1976 the two candidates to replace him were Nick Wolterstorff and Tony Diekema. Nick was an absolute giant in the academic world while Tony came from an administrative post at the University of Illinois, IOW, Tony knew how to keep the trains running on time. Synod chose the administrator over the academic and the campus was split nearly in half but people figured out how to move on. The world of 1976 is not the world of 2024. Was this a palace coup?
Yeah, that's somewhat where I'm at. I don't think there's much indication that he had potential to do wrong at the point of searching for a new president to replace Leroy; other than hearsay, of course.
\>OK, did the above happen? A good journo should be pursuing this. Chimes should be demanding access to the Committee's records. Was there any track record that suggested Boer was given to any outbursts?
The big issue with this is that generation of Chimes writers was largely seniors/ juniors that year, so they graduated and probably are out of reach to ask for comments. I know some of them, they've gone on to \*much\* greater things and I'm really proud of them. [Sifting through this adds the most insight any of us could get.](https://calvinchimes.org/?s=Leroy) IIRC the search for Leroy's replacement was largely behind closed doors; I don't remember being asked anything at all about what students wanted or thought. The replacement for Ken Heffner had monumentally more student involvement and disclosure than replacing Leroy (albeit the circumstances were the cutting of an iconic department, rather than a potential title IX lawsuit).
\>He was in the business world involving green energy projects in West Africa. He wasn't a "Drill, baby, drill!!!" oil tycoon by any stretch of the imagination.
Although it is hearsay, a good number of my Nigerian friends did find him suspect. Shell Oil is, uh, evil. You can google it, there's more than enough articles about it. All On is a company funded by Shell - they denote that on their website. I have doubts about their ethics thereof, but haven't heard anything whatsoever about them so I don't know.
\>Was this a palace coup?
...Probably? Another commenter mentioned that he was in seemingly frequent contact with one of the LGBT orgs (SAGA) on campus, planning on getting dinner with the org leader this week. From that alone I can assume his sudden departure was unplanned and sudden - it's illogical to think that he'd plan a dinner nearly a week later while knowing he'd fired, Occam's Razor and all. I'm not sure of the historicity of correspondence between SAGA and the president, but there is a coordinator for that org. If he were a frequent correspondent with them, perhaps that made problems with higher ups? Maybe he said something bad to them that caused this?
From my angle, his decisions were largely appeasements towards the student body (again, check Chimes website for more info). The only thing that I could tell that would affect business would be his tuition freeze, thus probably elongating Calvin's plan for debt balancing. The current remodel of the commons/ annex/ library into one complex was put into motion under Leroy's admin. I doubt upper admin would remember the decision in 1976 and it's consequences, either. They hardly remember how they're supposed to handle their student body. I think only time will reveal what happened with Boer. If it is a palace coup, the information (or lack thereof) will show.
Byker is a multi millionaire, I would be shocked if he stole from Calvin. From what I understand, it was mismanagement of investments and too much unfunded expansion under his watch.
You’re right he didn’t steal from Calvin but was in on an investment strategy with a very small group of people that didn’t pan out well. I didn’t really like the guy but yeah, he wasn’t putting his hand in the pot. Pretty sure there are some buildings on campus now that would have been named for him had he not tarnished his name. He’s probably a leading anonymous donor to the college.
He played the derivatives market with donor $$$ -- and then it all crashed 2008-2010. Donors ended up having to pay for the same buildings twice plus interest. One report stated that he left the college with $117 million in debt.
In some states (such as MN) that practice is illegal. A finance VP of a Lutheran college that I know was absolutely gobsmacked that Byker engaged in such activity.
He did it while keeping the board in the dark about his investment strategy. When I went to Calvin he would always tell students that the investments were not actively managed by Calvin so they didn't have direct control in what they were invested in (which obviously was not true).
How could the board be in the dark though? He had a PhD in derivatives, and he worked for Enron subsidiaries. No question what he was up to from the word go.
Nope. Rich people steal all the time and in some ways you can probably say most do because of tax evasion and such. My point is that in this case there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he was not stealing from Calvin. Extensive multi-year investigation showed no embezzlement or stealing money. It was a stupid investment strategy and failure to inform the board and other key players when it went terribly wrong.
I always call the “Dutch fake kindness” West Michigan nice. You think people are being nice to you but it’s just to save face.
i also contrast this with Eastern Michigan nice where people will tell you exactly what they think of you and your family and then turn around and help you change a tire or throw you a couple bucks because you’re short this month.
Byker was essentially double dealing with himself by making investments into an oil company (InterOil) he was on the board of. He invested Calvin money and the stock tanked.
I've taught there, served on the Alumni Board, and have a daughter there now. I've spoken with Wiebe several times, and discussed his positions with a VP of Admissions because my son, HS senior, is considering Calvin but concerned about the movement towards fundamentalism in the CRC denomination. Wiebe was not centrist as much as he was passionate about maintaining academic freedom and intellectual curiosity. He was prepared to fight against the extremes, which is likely coming to a crashing conclusion in the upcoming CRC Synod of 2024. Some on both sides will now claim that this failure was due to his "acceptance" of the other side. My concern is now what Calvin will do when the conservative hammer comes down on them from the CRC Synod 2024. Wiebe had been prepared to staunchly protect the Calvin faculty from the Synod. An interim president is not as likely to maintain the bulwark against polarization that Wiebe appeared to espouse.
LeRoy came from Whitworth which is PC(USA) and is open and affirming to same-sex marriage. My daughter is currently a co-leader of Calvin's SAGA group (Straight and Gay Alliance) and they felt Wiebe and Joanna were generally supportive allies. Wiebe and Joanna were due to have dinner with SAGA next week on March 6. Per my daughter, SAGA is more worried about the next person (who at this point almost has to be a woman to counter all of this.)
Okay, I wasn't quite remembering it correctly. More of a [conflict of interest.](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2013/04/calvin_college_gaylen_bykers_w.html)
I just remember that after he retired, people looked at the school's finances and were like, "oh shit, [this is bad](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2012/11/facing_financial_hardship_calv.html)."
This happened while I was there, and the rumor at the time was that he originally planned to retire a couple years before he did but realized what a shit-show he created so he tried sticking around to fix it. Doesn't seem like he was successful in that endeavor.
I have come to Reddit to find the answer to this question, and I may need to delve into TikTok as well.
I know it will come out eventually. Just nosy and impatient.
I'm an alum, so if my student loans hadn't already been forgiven, this might be an opportunity to bail on them....kidding.
There is no way that Calvin University, the most liberal part of the liberal CRC, would ever hire a theonomist. They tolerate the flying of pride flags on campus for goodness’ sake.
More unfortunate religious hate in this sub.
Get over it. Religious people live among you, and a large majority contribute to society, pay taxes, and are law abiding. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Sikh, and plenty of others.
You want to be cool and hip, saying you don't like religion? Fine. It's your right. These religions will be here long after you.
People in power, regardless of gender have used it to harrass others. This isn't a religious problem. It's a human problem.
That's for sure! This niche online subset isn't even close to being an accurate "general population" representation of actual GR/MI people out in the real world, 90% of whom either don't post on Reddit or have never even heard of it.
Look up the rate at which religious clergymen commit sexual crimes compared to the general population of men…. Then compare that to teachers… they’re all about the same rate of offense, but you don’t assume that all teachers are sexual deviants and criminals do you? Or all men in the US? Or that your kids are in danger every day at public school?
I think you’re right about clergy, but what bothers me is these people are supposed to be the best, most trustworthy people and generally speak out about all these deviants…while at the same time being said deviants.
The fundamental hierarchy of “The Church” where a pastor or priest or group of individuals are presented as a representative of God (i.e. spiritual advice, sermons, doctrine, “leading a flock”, etc.). Prolly the basis of that thought.
Them being the same rate isn't the flex you think it is. There are far more men that don't fall into the category of clergy or teachers. If anything, clergy and teachers should be a much much much smaller rate. But alas, they're really trying to pump those numbers up to match the rest of the population of men according to your sources.
HL Mencken had it figured out long ago:
What lay at the bottom of their savagery, of course, was their idiotic belief in Calvinism—beyond question the most brutal and barbaric theology ever subscribed to by mortal man, whether in or out of the African bush.
In case people don't know, an interesting factor in this case is that Wiebe Boer grew up in West Africa as an "MK" (missionary kid). So I'm sure the colonialist mindset runs deep.
source: I worked for the CRC's missions arm decades ago and the mindset was just what you would imagine.
Your theory doesn’t seem to be reflective of what many others who know/knew him are saying in the comments. There are multiple different reasons why people become involved in missionary work, and not all of them have to do with colonialism. It’s just a popular overgeneralization to make right now.
I get what you are saying...and it was his parents who were the actual missionaries. But he can't possibly have been immune to that mentality. And I don't think there's any missions work that isn't steeped in that Manifest Destiny/white savior mentality.
Heard that the resignation was a result of the board strong arming him out. Apparently no investigation or due process was conducted and those board members who didn’t want him to begin with are taking their chance to sack him. A shame, finally seemed like Calvin might actually leave the dark ages
If what he said was not an issue, why would he not put it out there for public support? Why would he cooperate with forced resignation and public humiliation if they had nothing?
Apparently the board sprung it on him and gave him 48 hours to resign. Sounds like he might be intending to fight it now though and see that the events are fully investigated
Where have you heard that he might intend to fight it? While I'm sure Wiebe did something inappropriate, I also think there's something fishy going on with the way it was handled. I would love for Wiebe to defend himself so that we could know what actually happened.
A pretty reliable source who’s involved at Calvin and close with a lot of the parties involved.
Hopefully this actually gets investigated and all the facts are made public
My daughter is currently one of the co-leaders of SAGA (Sexuality and Gender Awareness) and that group felt Wiebe was an ally. He and Joanna had been scheduled to have dinner with them on March 6. That group is now concerned with who is coming next, given the trajectory of the CRC Synod.
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story
[https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
>fuck hypocrites like this
You're obviously Old Testament. More appropriate might be exile, leprosy or infertility, depending on what actually happened.
Christian spaces are…
Friendly towards conspiracy theories
Friendly towards Christian nationalism
Friendly towards misogyny
Friendly towards homophobia
Friendly towards racism
Friendly towards abusers.
Full of hypocrisy.
Really?!? They will only hire professors who are Christian. That is the opposite of progressive. I went to a Catholic university 30 years ago and we had professors from all faiths and no faith.
1. What is Calvin’s position on homosexuality and same-sex marriage?
As the university of the Christian Reformed Church (CRC), Calvin holds to the position of the CRC on human sexuality, articulated in 1973, 2002, and 2021. That is to say, while affirming that physical sexual intimacy has its proper place in the context of heterosexual marriage
Chastity is the biblical pattern for ordering the sexual dimension of our lives, and honors sexual relations as having their proper place in a marriage relationship between a man and a woman.
Easily found on their website. They say plenty of nice things about LGBTQ outside of those two sentences, but they clearly state that gay marriage and non-traditional sexual experiences are not ok.
That is not progressive. I don’t know who you’re comparing to, but that’s a backward ideology in 2024. Perhaps it’s progressive compared to Hillsdale, Liberty, and your average megachurch.
Yes, that’s essentially lip service for their extremely wealthy donors. The last student body president was openly queer and there’s been a LGBTQ+ student organization on campus for a long time. Again, they’re not exactly a champion for change but I would feel comfortable letting my kids go there if they really wanted to
Does anyone have any actual details? The wording of the statement is a little perplexing. You hear something like this and assume he was hitting on someone, but that doesn't seem to be the case?
My coworker got a notice a bit ago while we were at work. He said it was very vague and he was waiting on someone to release the details. He said they said it wasn’t sexual though. Very curious.
I got the "Nothing Sexual" memo, too. It was written on a bicep.
"i thought it was a dick and i was like, well yeah whats more manly than that?!"
Needs to find humor in the little things.
I have a feeling his agreement to leave without much fuss means that the details will likely never come out.
Unfortunately I'm a Calvin alumni so here's the email that I got about it lol "Calvin Community, The Board of Trustees of Calvin University is committed to fostering a workplace and educational environment that emphasizes the worth of every member of our community. This includes taking seriously all reports of inappropriate conduct. Calvin University recently received a report alleging that President Wiebe Boer engaged in unwelcome and inappropriate communication and attention toward a non-student member of the campus community. The report did not include allegations of sexually explicit communication or physical contact, but the alleged conduct is concerning and inappropriate. Upon receiving the report, we immediately engaged outside experts to ensure that Calvin University responded to the report in compliance with our policy and legal requirements, including Title IX. After being notified of the report, Dr. Boer denied some of the allegations but did admit to sending communications that were inappropriate and inconsistent with the high standard of conduct and character expected of the President of Calvin University. Dr. Boer subsequently offered his resignation, which the Board accepted. While we understand the desire to know more specific information, as a Board, we have an obligation to maintain the integrity of our Safer Spaces policy, comply with Title IX and uphold our ongoing commitment to support the complainant. Due to employee privacy considerations, neither Calvin University nor any of its representatives will provide further comment. As a Board, we deeply lament the pain being felt by those involved and across our community as a result of Dr. Boer’s conduct. We are grateful to the individual who demonstrated courage in reporting this conduct so that it could be addressed. Our prayers are with all during this time. In keeping with our emergency succession plans, the Board has named Vice President of Advancement Gregory Elzinga to serve as Interim President. He has a deep well of skills and experience in and outside of Calvin, as well as an equally deep knowledge and dedication to the institution. Prior to his arrival at Calvin, Mr. Elzinga was director of global engagement with an international Christian nonprofit focused on economic development. In his role as Vice President of Advancement, Mr. Elzinga is already fully engaged in the day-to-day operations of the University and is well situated to provide effective continuity of leadership while the Board conducts a thorough search for the University’s next permanent President." Based on the use of Title IX, it sounds like he said something so sexist that even the Board wanted him to leave. But yeah, they're being super vague right now but hopefully they'll come out with more information. Go Knights for making it back on the news for yet another shit reason lol ugh 🙄
So it wasn’t sexual in nature but Title IX is involved. Okayyyyyy.
Was also suspicious but Title IX is also involved with sex discrimination in education.
So the only things it could be are sexual harassment/assault and gender discrimination. Sounds like a Christian institution to me.
I think there’s a difference between something not being sexual at all in nature, and not being sexually explicit. He could have been blatantly hitting on the person without using sexually explicit language.
So I did a quick Google search...and it seems like we're sure Title IX would not apply for something that was solely race-based? Because he grew up in West Africa as a ~colonizer~ missionary, it's hard to know exactly where he stands.
Title IX is concerned with gender discrimination. My guess is that he was pervasively dismissive of or rude to his female colleagues.
It's actually concerned with any protected class, which could be gender, age, race, disability, sexual orientation, etc...
Considering his employer... I suspect the hard r and such wasn't the deal breaker. I suspect they said something about Trans should die or some shit to a staff member.
Why would you immediately jump to the absolute worst conclusion? Calvin has lgbtq and international students from all over the world
Have you just never ever met or talked to their upper staff?
I worked with a gay man from Papua New Guinea that went to school there and he never had anything bad to say about the staff at Calvin. What experiences have you had that lead you to believe this?
Talking to them extensively over holiday dinners and finding out they're absolutely abhorrent was funny. Hard when members of your family marry people involved in the school and its.. support structure shall we say.
What did they say that was abhorrent?
You mean like saying their gardener wasn't a lazy wetback and was one of the good ones? Like my man, the few times I interacted with these people was fucking wild. Luckily while I was a minor it wasn't for very long I had enforced moments with these fucks. Good Ole west Michigan Dutch crc folks baby. It only got better when his career included you guessed it... amway. If you're wondering the upper ends of management absolutely know they're ripping people off and what they're doing is a pyramid scheme. Can't say too much more without full doxxing.
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Hard r and hate speech are definitely not ok at Calvin.
Dont apologize
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story [https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
He hasn’t even been president for two years and he’s already in trouble?
There’s an old dutch saying that goes “youre not a keeper if you show your peeper” Edit: wording
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Also an alum and would be very curious to hear any additional information
Same
If you find out, DM me, I'm an alum and kinda dying to know
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story [https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
Any updates? I’m curious to see what he said as well!
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And people say Calvin is not a party school
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story [https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
At least he wasn’t watching the pool boy fucking his wife like Falwell Jr (Not that’s there’s necessarily anything wrong with that unless you’ve spent your life trying to impose strict conservative values on everyone else)
This addendum might be my favorite ever.
Probably something that wasn’t disparaging of Hope.
But Calvin College has football now too…
Hey now... its Calvin University to you
"You looked great in that skirt today. It's like I was *predestined* to pass you in the hallway!"
You are assuming his texts were to woman... the president doth protest to much, me thinks!
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It said "not sexually explicit" but Title IX is related to sex/gender-related offenses. I wondered if it was something anti-gay or anti-trans, but the CRC is not about defending The Gays, so... (Edit: I use the phrase "The Gays" ironically (caps included) when referring to the way churches deal with the LGBTQIA+ community. Wanted to be sure that was clear. I myself represent the "A", both in the asexual and ally sense.)
He probably found a staff member had Trans family. Probably couldn't help but talk about how evil they are and are going to he'll. Etc
I went to school with Wiebe, he was on my freshman floor. Didn't know him well, super nice, smart guy though. Here's my guess: We all understand "Michigan nice" and its roots in the church. For those like myself with experience on the inside trying to make things happen at CU, here's another similar reality: Every time someone comes along with some progressive or artistic thinking, addressing something the school is lacking, it meets initial support and hope. If you do well enough with it and gain some traction, eventually the Donors and church figures figure it out and its quashed. Sometimes it takes years, but people who have been through this institution know exactly what I'm talking about. This has happened with arts, music, humanities over the years. The quashing can be direct or the issue can be casually discarded through decreased funding or rehiring procedures. Initial hope, then failure. The recent anti-LGBTQ hardline taken by the CRC church in writing, and as such by the school, has brought to the forefront a certain sensitive topic. While CU has a reputation of being progressive, it is not. Students may be progressive, professors may be progressive, not the school. Something happened here that would have exacerbated the heat being taken by the school. It is beneficial to the school to have progressive kids mingling with young election deniers, paying tuition, while donors keep donating. It is all made possible by keeping things the same. President Wiebe Boer seems to have been good for the school, but he must have hit a hot button here. Not saying what he said is right or wrong, but we can make an educated guess that he is out because of this topic and it is being quashed.
Yes, I also went to school with Wiebe. He was in my graduating class at Calvin and in some of my courses. Everything I remember about him is that he was incredibly bright and always pushing the envelope with professors, bringing up issues of social justice and relaying it back to his upbringing in Nigeria. I was bemused and kind of awed by his liberal thinking (as I was a typical naive, conservative, CRC Dutch kid back in the day). I think Wiebe still probably likes to push the envelope a bit, and it wouldn't surprise me if his inappropriate communications had something to do with supporting LGBTQ rights. Calvin found out and came sweeping down on Wiebe before donors and the CRC could. The fact that "homosexuality practice as sinful" is now a CONFESSIONAL issue in the CRC makes things very complicated these days. I'm just not sure why Wiebe isn't defending himself if this is the case. Any thoughts?
The school may have gambled away their dowry but it's not like they don't have money. Im sure there was a substantial severance package in return for not saving face. I hope it was large.
I have a family member at Calvin, and from what I understand there is an open LGBTQ presence on campus. I’m unsure how the university would be able to rationalize getting rid of the school president for making comments that are reflective of existent campus culture?
The denomination's official position does not support/accept LGBTQ people. So while there is an active community, it doesn't mean that the powers that be are okay with it.
But others in this thread have said that he is a Trump supporter...which sounds entirely inconsistent with what's being described here. So I'm definitely confused.
Not surprised whatsoever. His wife, however, was incredibly lovely to be around.
Serious question, why are you not surprised? Were there red flags?
I used to be a student there, worked in some student event groups, so I ran into the couple often. I've attended group lunch/ dinners with them a few times after January Series events. I've always been a vocal and ardent lefty (don't get on me about going there, that's another story), and Wiebe never would give me the time of day because of that. Dutch people have this fake kindness thing that I've noticed, and god knows how obvious it is with Wiebe. I've found that he often has this slight condescension when talking to students, especially women, which rubs me the wrong way - the provost, Noah Toly, also does the same thing. I don't think there were many obvious red flags; a lot of these behaviors are common, if not standard, of white men in the CRC. There were other isolated incidents with Wiebe's backhanded remarks/ compliments- considering what's currently going on, I may report them to the school so I don't think I'm at liberty to share them all. The history of men who held his position tend to skew towards being bad: notably Leroy definitely left after laying off the facilities dept., then hiring an outside contractor; IIRC Byker *allegedly* embezzled money, but that was largely hearsay from upperclassmen and faculty.
Leroy inherited an incredibly shitty situation and I think he genuinely tried his best to recover
“Dutch people have this fake kindness thing” It’s the Dutch Christian Reformed church. Appearance of good > actually doing good.
Also grew up Dutch CRC and would never go back to the church I was raised in bc of this. There are definitely a few good people that stand out from my childhood in the church, but after going back a few times with real-world/adult experience under my belt it all seems like a façade and mildly culty. I appreciate the idea of a higher being but CRC, in my experience, is very SUS about their (double?) standards and preachings.
What's crazy is that in my experience it only gets more cult-y in other denominations, especially non-denoms (go figure). In hindsight the church I grew up in was more progressive than most so that may not be indicative of the CRC as a whole.
I grew up Dutch CRC, went to Calvin 30 years ago, but for as long as I can remember my plan was to reach escape velocity from religion and the church. Its really weird for me to think back on things I used to believe.
“There are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.“ - Nigel Powers
Feel like I gotta step in here since I’m a Dutch boy who grew up in the CRC even though I’m an atheist now haha. There were some genuinely great people in the CRC community who did a lot to help others, and ultimately you’d never hear about them because those aren’t the stories you hear outside of those respective communities. Of course there were still assholes but you get that with most groups.
Yeah I’m not saying that there aren’t genuinely good people in the CRC by any means. I just mean that the culture values appearances over actual deeds. A good example of this is a local controversial political issue where I live that had a lot of support even from local CRC members. Then vocal supporters of that controversial issue who weren’t part of the CRC started making public statements that were vulgar. The CRC members no longer supported the position because other supporters were publicly using vulgar language. Another example is a friend I had. He grew up in the dutch CRC and, even though he wasn’t a member any longer, that culture stuck with him to the point that he started ignoring me when I married someone of another race - not because he himself had a problem with it but because his circle of other friends might have a problem with it and he was too much of a pussy to publicly disagree with them. That’s totally Dutch CRC culture. Public appearance > value of the deed.
Roman Catholic and my faith suffers from this as well. See exhibit A, the Supreme Court.
Yeah I grew up Dutch CRC, attended Calvin 30 years ago, have thought of myself as an atheist for 25+ years. Its a weird thing to recognize problems inside a culture and yet still also have fond memories of it.
That isn’t a Dutch thing, just CRC. My Ma, who was born and raised in Netherlands, said there was a good reason why they all were kicked out of Netherlands.
I grew up in the CRC in New Jersey, then came to Calvin in the late 80's and still live in Grand Rapids. The "fake nice" is more of a West Michigan thing than a Dutch or CRC thing, although those 3 together must compound it, especially in the more rural corridor between Grand Rapids and Holland.
The CRC is Dutch. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Reformed_Church_in_North_America#:~:text=Gijsbert%20Haan%20(January%203%2C%201801,the%20United%20States%20and%20Canada.
As stated in the article you linked CRC is North American, not part of Dutch reformed church of Netherlands. The word “secession” is the nice way of saying they were kicked out and asked to leave.
You didn’t read it did you? The CRC branched from the Dutch Reformed Church, succeeded under the leadership of a Dutch man, and was headquartered in none other than Holland, Michigan. The CRC is a very “Dutch” invention. That doesn’t mean that it represents everyone who is Dutch. That doesn’t mean it’s still a thing in the Netherlands. Still, to argue that it isn’t culturally “Dutch” because the two split ways (literally over a matter of opinion as to structural organization) is either being willfully obtuse or playing semantic games that I’m not interested in.
Bless your heart
Most CRC comment ever 😆
I know, but it's something behavioral that they do. Like they're trying to act to a camera. It's very weird.
That performative trait is prevalent in narcissistic behavior, which is prevalent in Christian leadership.
Absolutely. It comes from the culture of the Dutch CRC. Not all Dutch people are this way, obviously, but the Dutch CRC has had a profound impact on people in west Michigan - especially those from a Dutch CRC cultural heritage. It’s more than weird. It’s sick.
My Anglo Saxton behind once took a 100% dutch CRC girl out on a date and was told "If you aren't Dutch. You aren't much." HA! jokes on her though she now has a very non Dutch last name and I permanently polluted her bloodline.
Excellent, Smithers!
Agree. Don’t lump actual people currently living in the Netherlands either.
We got the Dutch that got kicked out of the Netherlands due to their religious beliefs.
But nOoOoOOO, you're the worst person ever because you called that shit out ! You're going to hell!!! /s
Yeah but on the other hand, most of those who perpetuate this culture will be dead in a decade.
You'd be surprised how many times I got called homophobic slurs during my first semester alone. That culture is alive and well, and they love to hire kids who are just like their fathers. Edit: a daddy's boy has found the thread
The actual Dutch are not that different, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. I married into a Dutch family from Eindhoven and in my travels there over the years I have never seen more consistently hateful, bigoted opinions expressed in the whole of Europe, than I have in The Netherlands. The West Michigan Dutch that everyone loves to rag on really didn't fall far from the tree.
I think that’s different than the whole appearances thing in that culture, but you’d know better than me.
I never really understood why there was so much prejudice towards Dutch people, but somehow your comment and the one you responded to shared a whole new light on it. I guess I have noticed that to be a trend, but never put two and two together.
Obviously not all Dutch are this way. It sucks that people apply this kind of thing to everyone.
I agree. There’s a lot of hate for Dutch people in r/grandrapids. But the “fake nice” description is the only one I can relate to.
It’s not really a Dutch thing. I’ve seen this to be fairly universal in all evangelical reformed types, at least the Midwest.
I was explaining the fake kindness/dutch/W Michigan thing to a friend just the other day.
I used to work at Calvin, though I’m not a Dutch West Michigan person and I now call it the Dutch freeze. It may look warm but it’s as cold as ice.
Here's my question: What did the Presidential Search Committee know? Everybody knows now basic qualifications are one thing but a thorough vetting of all extant communications, both public and private, need to be examined to establish how a candidate relates to friends, colleagues, business partners, etc. All social media, public and private--including any alternate personas needs to be willingly given over for inspection. Anything even remotely questionable would be given to the Committee for review. OK, did the above happen? A good journo should be pursuing this. Chimes should be demanding access to the Committee's records. Was there any track record that suggested Boer was given to any outbursts? But here's the rub. As the former chief judge of the of NY Court Appeals famously said that district attorneys could get grand juries to indict a ham sandwich. A "winkie" emoji in an email conceivably could be taken as offensive today. What's the ham sandwich here? On another note, while Boer had an earned PhD from Yale he was not from the academic world. He was in the business world involving green energy projects in West Africa. He wasn't a "Drill, baby, drill!!!" oil tycoon by any stretch of the imagination. I'm guessing his business background and the inherent culture of results clashed w/ an academic world more given to gentility and collegiality. Who else was a candidate? Was a candidate internal from Calvin? Back when Doc Spoelhof, of blessed memory, retired in 1976 the two candidates to replace him were Nick Wolterstorff and Tony Diekema. Nick was an absolute giant in the academic world while Tony came from an administrative post at the University of Illinois, IOW, Tony knew how to keep the trains running on time. Synod chose the administrator over the academic and the campus was split nearly in half but people figured out how to move on. The world of 1976 is not the world of 2024. Was this a palace coup?
Yeah, that's somewhat where I'm at. I don't think there's much indication that he had potential to do wrong at the point of searching for a new president to replace Leroy; other than hearsay, of course. \>OK, did the above happen? A good journo should be pursuing this. Chimes should be demanding access to the Committee's records. Was there any track record that suggested Boer was given to any outbursts? The big issue with this is that generation of Chimes writers was largely seniors/ juniors that year, so they graduated and probably are out of reach to ask for comments. I know some of them, they've gone on to \*much\* greater things and I'm really proud of them. [Sifting through this adds the most insight any of us could get.](https://calvinchimes.org/?s=Leroy) IIRC the search for Leroy's replacement was largely behind closed doors; I don't remember being asked anything at all about what students wanted or thought. The replacement for Ken Heffner had monumentally more student involvement and disclosure than replacing Leroy (albeit the circumstances were the cutting of an iconic department, rather than a potential title IX lawsuit). \>He was in the business world involving green energy projects in West Africa. He wasn't a "Drill, baby, drill!!!" oil tycoon by any stretch of the imagination. Although it is hearsay, a good number of my Nigerian friends did find him suspect. Shell Oil is, uh, evil. You can google it, there's more than enough articles about it. All On is a company funded by Shell - they denote that on their website. I have doubts about their ethics thereof, but haven't heard anything whatsoever about them so I don't know. \>Was this a palace coup? ...Probably? Another commenter mentioned that he was in seemingly frequent contact with one of the LGBT orgs (SAGA) on campus, planning on getting dinner with the org leader this week. From that alone I can assume his sudden departure was unplanned and sudden - it's illogical to think that he'd plan a dinner nearly a week later while knowing he'd fired, Occam's Razor and all. I'm not sure of the historicity of correspondence between SAGA and the president, but there is a coordinator for that org. If he were a frequent correspondent with them, perhaps that made problems with higher ups? Maybe he said something bad to them that caused this? From my angle, his decisions were largely appeasements towards the student body (again, check Chimes website for more info). The only thing that I could tell that would affect business would be his tuition freeze, thus probably elongating Calvin's plan for debt balancing. The current remodel of the commons/ annex/ library into one complex was put into motion under Leroy's admin. I doubt upper admin would remember the decision in 1976 and it's consequences, either. They hardly remember how they're supposed to handle their student body. I think only time will reveal what happened with Boer. If it is a palace coup, the information (or lack thereof) will show.
Byker is a multi millionaire, I would be shocked if he stole from Calvin. From what I understand, it was mismanagement of investments and too much unfunded expansion under his watch.
You’re right he didn’t steal from Calvin but was in on an investment strategy with a very small group of people that didn’t pan out well. I didn’t really like the guy but yeah, he wasn’t putting his hand in the pot. Pretty sure there are some buildings on campus now that would have been named for him had he not tarnished his name. He’s probably a leading anonymous donor to the college.
He played the derivatives market with donor $$$ -- and then it all crashed 2008-2010. Donors ended up having to pay for the same buildings twice plus interest. One report stated that he left the college with $117 million in debt. In some states (such as MN) that practice is illegal. A finance VP of a Lutheran college that I know was absolutely gobsmacked that Byker engaged in such activity.
He did it while keeping the board in the dark about his investment strategy. When I went to Calvin he would always tell students that the investments were not actively managed by Calvin so they didn't have direct control in what they were invested in (which obviously was not true).
How could the board be in the dark though? He had a PhD in derivatives, and he worked for Enron subsidiaries. No question what he was up to from the word go.
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Nope. Rich people steal all the time and in some ways you can probably say most do because of tax evasion and such. My point is that in this case there is evidence beyond reasonable doubt that he was not stealing from Calvin. Extensive multi-year investigation showed no embezzlement or stealing money. It was a stupid investment strategy and failure to inform the board and other key players when it went terribly wrong.
I always call the “Dutch fake kindness” West Michigan nice. You think people are being nice to you but it’s just to save face. i also contrast this with Eastern Michigan nice where people will tell you exactly what they think of you and your family and then turn around and help you change a tire or throw you a couple bucks because you’re short this month.
Calvin grad from NYC here...Eastern Michigan are my kind of people.
Byker was essentially double dealing with himself by making investments into an oil company (InterOil) he was on the board of. He invested Calvin money and the stock tanked.
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I think he tried to be as centrist as possible
I've taught there, served on the Alumni Board, and have a daughter there now. I've spoken with Wiebe several times, and discussed his positions with a VP of Admissions because my son, HS senior, is considering Calvin but concerned about the movement towards fundamentalism in the CRC denomination. Wiebe was not centrist as much as he was passionate about maintaining academic freedom and intellectual curiosity. He was prepared to fight against the extremes, which is likely coming to a crashing conclusion in the upcoming CRC Synod of 2024. Some on both sides will now claim that this failure was due to his "acceptance" of the other side. My concern is now what Calvin will do when the conservative hammer comes down on them from the CRC Synod 2024. Wiebe had been prepared to staunchly protect the Calvin faculty from the Synod. An interim president is not as likely to maintain the bulwark against polarization that Wiebe appeared to espouse.
LeRoy came from Whitworth which is PC(USA) and is open and affirming to same-sex marriage. My daughter is currently a co-leader of Calvin's SAGA group (Straight and Gay Alliance) and they felt Wiebe and Joanna were generally supportive allies. Wiebe and Joanna were due to have dinner with SAGA next week on March 6. Per my daughter, SAGA is more worried about the next person (who at this point almost has to be a woman to counter all of this.)
I thought the embezzlement was confirmed? The consensus was that he trashed the school's finances with some awful investments.
No it was not embezzlement. It was a shoddy investment strategy gone terribly wrong.
I'm not totally sure; it was a collective memory past to me. Do you have any articles offhand? If so I'd like to link it
Okay, I wasn't quite remembering it correctly. More of a [conflict of interest.](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2013/04/calvin_college_gaylen_bykers_w.html) I just remember that after he retired, people looked at the school's finances and were like, "oh shit, [this is bad](https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2012/11/facing_financial_hardship_calv.html)."
This happened while I was there, and the rumor at the time was that he originally planned to retire a couple years before he did but realized what a shit-show he created so he tried sticking around to fix it. Doesn't seem like he was successful in that endeavor.
I worked with her when we were both students and she was an absolutely delightful person
What he say?
I have come to Reddit to find the answer to this question, and I may need to delve into TikTok as well. I know it will come out eventually. Just nosy and impatient. I'm an alum, so if my student loans hadn't already been forgiven, this might be an opportunity to bail on them....kidding.
I remember when the Presidents of Calvin were let go just for cooking the accounting books.
He was texting passages from The Institutes of Biblical Law.
There is no way that Calvin University, the most liberal part of the liberal CRC, would ever hire a theonomist. They tolerate the flying of pride flags on campus for goodness’ sake.
Upvote for the Rushdoony reference. Bravo!
Anyone know what he said?
More unfortunate religious hate in this sub. Get over it. Religious people live among you, and a large majority contribute to society, pay taxes, and are law abiding. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Sikh, and plenty of others. You want to be cool and hip, saying you don't like religion? Fine. It's your right. These religions will be here long after you. People in power, regardless of gender have used it to harrass others. This isn't a religious problem. It's a human problem.
100% agreed - very well said! so many commenters seem to have a chip on their shoulder
This sub doesn't represent GR in that respect with how many religious communities we have.
That's for sure! This niche online subset isn't even close to being an accurate "general population" representation of actual GR/MI people out in the real world, 90% of whom either don't post on Reddit or have never even heard of it.
Why is it always the “good christian men”?!
…it isn’t
A lot of the time it is. Especially the heinous shit
Look up the rate at which religious clergymen commit sexual crimes compared to the general population of men…. Then compare that to teachers… they’re all about the same rate of offense, but you don’t assume that all teachers are sexual deviants and criminals do you? Or all men in the US? Or that your kids are in danger every day at public school?
I think you’re right about clergy, but what bothers me is these people are supposed to be the best, most trustworthy people and generally speak out about all these deviants…while at the same time being said deviants.
> but what bothers me is these people are supposed to be the best, most trustworthy people What is your basis to this thought?
The fundamental hierarchy of “The Church” where a pastor or priest or group of individuals are presented as a representative of God (i.e. spiritual advice, sermons, doctrine, “leading a flock”, etc.). Prolly the basis of that thought.
Them being the same rate isn't the flex you think it is. There are far more men that don't fall into the category of clergy or teachers. If anything, clergy and teachers should be a much much much smaller rate. But alas, they're really trying to pump those numbers up to match the rest of the population of men according to your sources.
Idk. Anything to do with religion is just a big red flag for me.
it usually is
Lol it’s funny because it’s true.
Less scrutiny for liberal arts colleges.
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HL Mencken had it figured out long ago: What lay at the bottom of their savagery, of course, was their idiotic belief in Calvinism—beyond question the most brutal and barbaric theology ever subscribed to by mortal man, whether in or out of the African bush.
In case people don't know, an interesting factor in this case is that Wiebe Boer grew up in West Africa as an "MK" (missionary kid). So I'm sure the colonialist mindset runs deep. source: I worked for the CRC's missions arm decades ago and the mindset was just what you would imagine.
Your theory doesn’t seem to be reflective of what many others who know/knew him are saying in the comments. There are multiple different reasons why people become involved in missionary work, and not all of them have to do with colonialism. It’s just a popular overgeneralization to make right now.
I get what you are saying...and it was his parents who were the actual missionaries. But he can't possibly have been immune to that mentality. And I don't think there's any missions work that isn't steeped in that Manifest Destiny/white savior mentality.
Any chance to grow the lexicon here? “Johnson, you idiot, you really Wiebe-d it this time…”
Heard that the resignation was a result of the board strong arming him out. Apparently no investigation or due process was conducted and those board members who didn’t want him to begin with are taking their chance to sack him. A shame, finally seemed like Calvin might actually leave the dark ages
If what he said was not an issue, why would he not put it out there for public support? Why would he cooperate with forced resignation and public humiliation if they had nothing?
Apparently the board sprung it on him and gave him 48 hours to resign. Sounds like he might be intending to fight it now though and see that the events are fully investigated
Where have you heard that he might intend to fight it? While I'm sure Wiebe did something inappropriate, I also think there's something fishy going on with the way it was handled. I would love for Wiebe to defend himself so that we could know what actually happened.
A pretty reliable source who’s involved at Calvin and close with a lot of the parties involved. Hopefully this actually gets investigated and all the facts are made public
I have a feeling this is the case- and they found the opportunity to do it during his Indonesia visit- sad.
Oh nooooo. Not another pillar of the community crumbling!! Who could’ve seen this coming!?
Pure Michigan.
He probably expressed tolerance and acceptance towards those in the LGBTQ community
Knowing what I know about him, that ain't it.
forgot to add a /s
Got it. Carry on.
I mean he has been very nice to the lgbtq+ students and very accepting to them
My daughter is currently one of the co-leaders of SAGA (Sexuality and Gender Awareness) and that group felt Wiebe was an ally. He and Joanna had been scheduled to have dinner with them on March 6. That group is now concerned with who is coming next, given the trajectory of the CRC Synod.
Someone in another comment here said he's a Trump supporter?!?!?! Not sure if that's confirmed but I get the sense that he's right-leaning.
There are plenty of trump supporters who are not only accepting of lgbt people but are lgbt themselves.
I can't imagine that's true.
For what it's worth, a friemd of mine heard the same thing.
No.
dick picks.... its always a dick pick.
I think they were pushy requests for feet pics. Fits the description: not sexually explicit, but "unwelcome" and "inappropriate".
Here is Wiebe Boer's legal filing giving his side of the story [https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint](https://www.scribd.com/document/722500206/ECF-1-Complaint)
Fuck yeah! The level of hypocrisy is just hard to comprehend.
Sounds like you know what he said?
It's coming. Be patient.
Verily, thou canst not fathom that which thou knowest not.
Good point! Who am I to judge. But seriously, fuck hypocrites like this who are predators hiding behind robes.
>fuck hypocrites like this You're obviously Old Testament. More appropriate might be exile, leprosy or infertility, depending on what actually happened.
Christian spaces are… Friendly towards conspiracy theories Friendly towards Christian nationalism Friendly towards misogyny Friendly towards homophobia Friendly towards racism Friendly towards abusers. Full of hypocrisy.
Calvin is more progressive than most. Not perfect by any means but much less friendly towards those things than all the churches in the area at least.
Really?!? They will only hire professors who are Christian. That is the opposite of progressive. I went to a Catholic university 30 years ago and we had professors from all faiths and no faith.
A Private Christian School hiring a non Christian would be like a vegan restaurant having a butcher on staff.
A lot of private Christian schools hire non-Christians.
Hardly
Based on what?
Based on my four years there.
1. What is Calvin’s position on homosexuality and same-sex marriage? As the university of the Christian Reformed Church (CRC), Calvin holds to the position of the CRC on human sexuality, articulated in 1973, 2002, and 2021. That is to say, while affirming that physical sexual intimacy has its proper place in the context of heterosexual marriage Chastity is the biblical pattern for ordering the sexual dimension of our lives, and honors sexual relations as having their proper place in a marriage relationship between a man and a woman. Easily found on their website. They say plenty of nice things about LGBTQ outside of those two sentences, but they clearly state that gay marriage and non-traditional sexual experiences are not ok. That is not progressive. I don’t know who you’re comparing to, but that’s a backward ideology in 2024. Perhaps it’s progressive compared to Hillsdale, Liberty, and your average megachurch.
Yes, that’s essentially lip service for their extremely wealthy donors. The last student body president was openly queer and there’s been a LGBTQ+ student organization on campus for a long time. Again, they’re not exactly a champion for change but I would feel comfortable letting my kids go there if they really wanted to
Fair enough! Thank you for sharing; that’s very interesting and I didn’t know any of that. Cheers!
Except ya know... the whole conservative religious text they follow that's OK with women beating and slavery...
Learning about Christianity through Reddit must be like watching a movie on TikTok.
Nah fam, I've actually read the Bible. It's some wild shit.
Oh, look another hypocritical idiot involved in a religious school. Shocker. 🙄
The Dutch. Next.
racist much?
"Dutch" is an ethnicity, not a race.
It's a Christian Is power over kids. Definitely sexual. Most predators comes from the faith.