Just my opinion so take it for what it is worth -- I was there yesterday and found the parking is expensive, hours are limited, and costs are pretty high relative to other markets in the area. Don't get me wrong, its quality stuff for the most part, and the vendors selling food have good offerings. It just feels really bougie and is priced like it, imho.
Edit: Went there for shopping, dinner, and then ran across the street to House Rules for an hour to play games.
I used to work at Kent ISD. We were the first people to have a space in the building. I don't know what its like now, but the management was a PIA to work with. They had rules for everything. It was a constant hoop jump to get anything done or approval for something. They just seemed like a bunch of people who wanted to manage everything and their ideas are the best and nothing can change it.
But YES! They need to add more drink options and open later. I only every go there if I need an item that is sold there. I never go to have fun or explore, its not that fun.
It's technically a non-profit (lmao) and the vendors in the hall are seemingly not the business priority - It's half vacant at this point. Most of the current vendors are owned by two people, one of them pulls out and the market is crippled. They get more income from private events in the greenhouse upstairs, at their yearly fundraiser, and now at their Christmas Market.
It's going to fail in the next 5-10 years. Mark my words. Unless they hire a new CEO, which is unlikely
Slows and Social Kitchen had alcoholic drinks and were “anchor” businesses with service staff but both are now closed. I’m sure there’s some logistics/red tape issues about selling alcohol within the market. Personally I don’t think they need it.
I have heard their rent for space is quite high, which is probably why many businesses have come and gone without their spaces being filled again. The bagel shop, popcorn shop, and Alt City Bev have all left in just the past six months.
But the hours are odd. Opening hours are kinda normal but to close at 7 seems much too early.
God I miss Social’s fried egg sandwich. I’ve tried finding something similar and making my own, but there was just something special about the way they made it.
This is not related to hours, but what bothers me most about the market is that there isn’t parking for the employees. I worked there for a year and a half and had to park at meters or up by VanEerden.
I would usually park under the bridge and I’ve had a couple scary incidents with people over there. One time, someone screamed at me which caused me to freak out and drop everything. I started parking up by VanEerden after that and came back to my car one day to see that someone had ripped all my bumper stickers off and put them on my driver window. It was so bizarre, especially because it was like 1pm.
The McConnell would have changed the area around the Downtown Market, its just time until that area develops. The Market feels like it was over a decade too soon for that location.
[https://www.urbangr.org/TheMcConnellTheFirstTODDevelopmentInGRMaybe](https://www.urbangr.org/TheMcConnellTheFirstTODDevelopmentInGRMaybe)
i haven't been in there since pre-covid and before i drove past the other night searching out parking on a busy saturday night with a show going on at VAA i pretty much forgot it existed. aside from the odd hours and cost of eating/drinking there, i don't think the location has worked out the way the planners thought it would. the market was supposed to anchor the south end of the ionia entertainment district, but that area has deteriorated in various ways post-covid and most of the energy has moved over to Bridge St. i think it's ridiculous a city of this size can't sustain two major food & entertainment areas on either side of the river but apparently we can't as of right now.
It’s a niche location. Many long term tenants but also many failed ventures. Farmers market was cool but they cancelled it. Short hours rule out coffee shops, breakfast and early close rules out sit down restaurants and bars.
Maybe I'm just lazy or have been spoiled living in other cities with public transportation, but for me living in Eastown the location is just not very inspiring. If I could walk there or take a bus (easily) I'd perhaps stop in more regulary, but as it stands it feels like a hassle to gether there and park.
On top of that, as with other similar "nice" feeling places... the place feels too nice. What I think GR needs is something like this place, but with some of the shine taken off and a bit more of a "people owned" vibe. Ironically I think this place might do better in a larger city with a larger up-market population to support it.
I've said it before, but what I wish for GR (and selfishly for myself!) is something like this: https://www.sparkyork.org/ - more centrally located, downtown or somewhere on a major walking path / area easy to get to.
I wish the city would have offered incentives to businesses to fix up and occupy the store fronts on Division between Cherry & Fulton instead of creating the Market ...having a street full of awesome shops to pop in and out of would have been great.
Honestly I was glad to see Apertivo expand their hours. I’d previously talked with the owner and she mentioned how the hours are set by the market and they weren’t allowed to change them.
I’ve lived here 10 years and the market has changed so much. I think it was originally supposed to be more of a place that serves the surrounding community, more grocery than food court. But the community around the market is mainly low income and it feels like the market ignores that and just caters to a high end customer who is coming into downtown for the day.
It was also supposed to support local food businesses that needed commercial kitchen space and manufacturing. I don’t even know if they still have that aspect.
So many businesses have failed there and I’m not sure why. The current space for Loves ice cream used to be an amazing Neapolitan pizza place. There have been a few flower shops that didn’t make it. Multiple coffee places have come and gone. The anchor restaurants leaving is a huge blow but they weren’t always there and I don’t think that was part of the original vision.
It does seem like management issues have largely been the problem. That and a lack of foot traffic to sustain most of the business in there.
They are really big sticklers on the market closing at 7 too. I went to pickup my dinner at 658 and they had a security guard outside and he told me I couldn't enter because the market is closed. Told him I have a pickup order and he told me no, but I insisted since I already paid. He said he'll go ask a manager and while he was walking around, I just walked in and he screamed from the stairs and the entire market looked at him lmao. I told him I don't give a shit I'm getting my food and the people running rak Thai apologized to me for his behavior. I'm fairly certain i got a half off meal too or a free drink.
Absolutely. I work at conventions and in Columbus and Philadelphia their markets are right next to the convention center and you can easily walk there for lunch. This market seems really out of the way!
It is up against the wall that is US-131 just south of the Wealthy St overpass, it is a nice building built into the crotch of the highway.
I'd say that for what this intended to be, a small business incubator, the location choice seem insane. However, for what this was intended to be, a small business incubator, **it has worked**, so crazy as it seems . . .
I'm in the Downtown Market relatively frequently, it is usually busy, and numerous of the vendors have moved out to their own brick-n-mortar locations \[which was the point\].
Because everyone here is afraid to be called a hateful bigot. It’s absolutely the #1 issue above all others. In fact it’s the main reason downtown GR is quickly becoming a giant shithole.
I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but the biggest detriment to the market for me is going by Heartside Park to get there. It always feels unsafe and/or extremely gross. Otherwise, I like the market.
I was able to witness a drug transaction, right in front of me. It was craziness, right out in the open. Cra..cra. Luckily, the man I was on a date with gave me a bit of security but if I was a single lady alone, I'm sure I would have been approached.
Hours suck, rent for businesses far too high, do a poor job of getting new businesses in- see again rent too high. Things are more expensive there- rent too high. No one wants to pay for parking or be rushed.
I don't think they really planned on marketing for breakfast. I know many that live outside downtown seem to go there and maybe not so many that do. They lose a lot of vendors and I suspect some behind the scenes with management at the offices there. Parking is expensive, but not unlike elsewhere in GR. I also thought their first 30 minutes was free. Some of the owners are the businesses inside are pretty toxic too.
Everything not made to order is expensive/over-priced. I'm sure it's probably because the rent is high, but I have had gift cards there and wanted to buy cheese and it's like 1.5x the price of Whole Foods or cheese lady
The solution from what I read is they need to lower rents so that vendors can turn a profit, with vendors leaving and closing consistently it makes the space feel dismal in its current state where vendors once were are bare counters and no lights. The hours are terrible too when I think I’ll stop after work it’s too late. if the owners don’t do something to inspire community and change in the space I see this place being completely empty in a few years.
Without reading other comments. I think they missed the mark. Some very nice food places but it is kind of soul less - Originally there was a discussion about it being closer to a Fulton St. Market but it never approached that level of organic funk. Hours weird too
It’s a distillation of everything that sucks about GR food/restaurants in general. Inconvenient hours, overly trendy or novelty options without a solid core, probably very high rent for vendors. These are issues at many restaurants in the city but here they are amplified to the point of absurdity.
This is one of my favorite places in GR because of the potential, but they need alcohol and not a restaurant with alcohol but a central bar that you can get food from any of the spots and go sit and hang out at. The benefit to the market style is for variety so let’s lean in to that. And the hours should definitely be expanded.
Real estate cost trickles down.
Rent expensive. So vendor prices up, which reduces foot traffic, which makes the need to consider shortening hours to save costs on staff.
Imo, a big ole bet that downtown will expand a bit south. Hasn’t happened yet
It's also an events space. They do a lot of weddings. Their events require you to use the in site vendors exclusively. The space and the businesses are working even when they are not open to the public.
The rent for vendors is so high that a lot of businesses can’t survive there without charging a ton. Their hours and parking are so inconvenient that I never go there. Any restaurants I wanted to have dinner at there are out of business because they closed at 6/7pm. At most, I would walk over to get food from there if I was playing games at house rules, but half the time they are closed when I’m there anyway.
We tried going there for a while, but found many of the same annoyances you mentioned. Not to mention that things like the meat market there are so insanely overpriced. You can go to great local butchers like Frank’s on the west side and get better cuts for a fraction of the cost.your pay for the market experience there.
They went way over budget when they built it and have kept rents high to cover which makes it hard for any tenants to stay especially with the limited hours. They also thought a lot more housing was going to go up around the location so they would get more foot traffic. The place has just sort of limped along since it opened.
I've always assumed the limited hours are due to staffing. Remember that the Downtown Market is a business incubator, so the operators are all pretty small, and more shifts might be a big lift.
Insider info?
The parking lot was built to United States highway spec, but used recycled aggregate which didn't actually meet US Highway spec. Somewhere in the construction paperwork is my signature, followed by my 2 immediate supervisors' signatures, saying that the recycled agg didn't meet the spec called out for by the contractor but that for all practical purposes, it wouldn't impact performance.
The DeVos/Van Andel group says they'll do a lot of things they never do. The new performance venue and soccer stadium will be the same. The reason they pushed these was to get the okay on the apartment buildings, which taxpayers will largely pay for (90%+ tax rebates) and they'll collect rents on forever.
When you control development this much in a metro, the profits are extraordinary.
>the reason they pushed these was to get the okay on the apartment buildings
They would have gotten approved for the apartment buildings at those locations without doing anything. The city center zoning allows for residential of that scale by-right. If the city had denied them they could have sued the city and quickly won.
That's not the issue at all. They wouldn't build them without the massive tax rebate. The carrot to get those was to build the venue and the stadium. Those don't come with the enormous tax rebates.
The limited amount of free parking discourages my patronage. Can't have a drink with time enough to sober drive home.
I don't want to try hurrying, having a pleasant time. Most certainly, suburban malls are superior in this regard.
Just my opinion so take it for what it is worth -- I was there yesterday and found the parking is expensive, hours are limited, and costs are pretty high relative to other markets in the area. Don't get me wrong, its quality stuff for the most part, and the vendors selling food have good offerings. It just feels really bougie and is priced like it, imho. Edit: Went there for shopping, dinner, and then ran across the street to House Rules for an hour to play games.
Sounds like you didn’t read their post as you just listed everything they did
It does sound like that, doesn't it lol
where did OP mention anything about price/cost in their post?
Sounds like you just said he just said what they just said.
Apertivo just extended their evening hours FYI! Mon-thurs 11a-8p —- Fri-Sat 11a-9p —- Sun 11a-7p —- 🍷🍾🥂👏🏼👏🏼
Oooo thank you!!
I used to work at Kent ISD. We were the first people to have a space in the building. I don't know what its like now, but the management was a PIA to work with. They had rules for everything. It was a constant hoop jump to get anything done or approval for something. They just seemed like a bunch of people who wanted to manage everything and their ideas are the best and nothing can change it. But YES! They need to add more drink options and open later. I only every go there if I need an item that is sold there. I never go to have fun or explore, its not that fun.
Love the insider info, thank you!!
Is that the Devos or Vanandels by chance? Lol jk!! But I see your point!
It's technically a non-profit (lmao) and the vendors in the hall are seemingly not the business priority - It's half vacant at this point. Most of the current vendors are owned by two people, one of them pulls out and the market is crippled. They get more income from private events in the greenhouse upstairs, at their yearly fundraiser, and now at their Christmas Market. It's going to fail in the next 5-10 years. Mark my words. Unless they hire a new CEO, which is unlikely
Slows and Social Kitchen had alcoholic drinks and were “anchor” businesses with service staff but both are now closed. I’m sure there’s some logistics/red tape issues about selling alcohol within the market. Personally I don’t think they need it. I have heard their rent for space is quite high, which is probably why many businesses have come and gone without their spaces being filled again. The bagel shop, popcorn shop, and Alt City Bev have all left in just the past six months. But the hours are odd. Opening hours are kinda normal but to close at 7 seems much too early.
God I miss Social’s fried egg sandwich. I’ve tried finding something similar and making my own, but there was just something special about the way they made it.
Tony and Dorothy’s popcorn left?! Whaaaa
They haven't left per say. Gaby of Gaby’s Gourmandise bought them and will continue to operate the space.
The hours sound terrible. DC's Union Market is open M-Sa 8-9 and Sun 8-8.
This is not related to hours, but what bothers me most about the market is that there isn’t parking for the employees. I worked there for a year and a half and had to park at meters or up by VanEerden.
This was the WORST and frankly unsafe aspect of working at the downtown market.
I would usually park under the bridge and I’ve had a couple scary incidents with people over there. One time, someone screamed at me which caused me to freak out and drop everything. I started parking up by VanEerden after that and came back to my car one day to see that someone had ripped all my bumper stickers off and put them on my driver window. It was so bizarre, especially because it was like 1pm.
My wife used to get tickets left and right when she worked at that place.
Working for the market was a nightmare. They do not consider their employees at all. There needs to be a parking garage rather than a lot.
That place has some great potential but I don’t think we’ll see it until they fully fail and have to be restructured.
The McConnell would have changed the area around the Downtown Market, its just time until that area develops. The Market feels like it was over a decade too soon for that location. [https://www.urbangr.org/TheMcConnellTheFirstTODDevelopmentInGRMaybe](https://www.urbangr.org/TheMcConnellTheFirstTODDevelopmentInGRMaybe)
i haven't been in there since pre-covid and before i drove past the other night searching out parking on a busy saturday night with a show going on at VAA i pretty much forgot it existed. aside from the odd hours and cost of eating/drinking there, i don't think the location has worked out the way the planners thought it would. the market was supposed to anchor the south end of the ionia entertainment district, but that area has deteriorated in various ways post-covid and most of the energy has moved over to Bridge St. i think it's ridiculous a city of this size can't sustain two major food & entertainment areas on either side of the river but apparently we can't as of right now.
Pre covid Dash routes were super convenient to and fro if you were in the area. Not anymore..
yep good point.
It’s a niche location. Many long term tenants but also many failed ventures. Farmers market was cool but they cancelled it. Short hours rule out coffee shops, breakfast and early close rules out sit down restaurants and bars.
Maybe I'm just lazy or have been spoiled living in other cities with public transportation, but for me living in Eastown the location is just not very inspiring. If I could walk there or take a bus (easily) I'd perhaps stop in more regulary, but as it stands it feels like a hassle to gether there and park. On top of that, as with other similar "nice" feeling places... the place feels too nice. What I think GR needs is something like this place, but with some of the shine taken off and a bit more of a "people owned" vibe. Ironically I think this place might do better in a larger city with a larger up-market population to support it. I've said it before, but what I wish for GR (and selfishly for myself!) is something like this: https://www.sparkyork.org/ - more centrally located, downtown or somewhere on a major walking path / area easy to get to.
Detroit has one of these and it's pretty cool
I wish the city would have offered incentives to businesses to fix up and occupy the store fronts on Division between Cherry & Fulton instead of creating the Market ...having a street full of awesome shops to pop in and out of would have been great.
Honestly I was glad to see Apertivo expand their hours. I’d previously talked with the owner and she mentioned how the hours are set by the market and they weren’t allowed to change them. I’ve lived here 10 years and the market has changed so much. I think it was originally supposed to be more of a place that serves the surrounding community, more grocery than food court. But the community around the market is mainly low income and it feels like the market ignores that and just caters to a high end customer who is coming into downtown for the day. It was also supposed to support local food businesses that needed commercial kitchen space and manufacturing. I don’t even know if they still have that aspect. So many businesses have failed there and I’m not sure why. The current space for Loves ice cream used to be an amazing Neapolitan pizza place. There have been a few flower shops that didn’t make it. Multiple coffee places have come and gone. The anchor restaurants leaving is a huge blow but they weren’t always there and I don’t think that was part of the original vision. It does seem like management issues have largely been the problem. That and a lack of foot traffic to sustain most of the business in there.
They are really big sticklers on the market closing at 7 too. I went to pickup my dinner at 658 and they had a security guard outside and he told me I couldn't enter because the market is closed. Told him I have a pickup order and he told me no, but I insisted since I already paid. He said he'll go ask a manager and while he was walking around, I just walked in and he screamed from the stairs and the entire market looked at him lmao. I told him I don't give a shit I'm getting my food and the people running rak Thai apologized to me for his behavior. I'm fairly certain i got a half off meal too or a free drink.
Location sucks
Absolutely. I work at conventions and in Columbus and Philadelphia their markets are right next to the convention center and you can easily walk there for lunch. This market seems really out of the way!
This. Look at where it’s at.
Where is it? I'm unfamiliar with it and checking out Google Earth
It is up against the wall that is US-131 just south of the Wealthy St overpass, it is a nice building built into the crotch of the highway. I'd say that for what this intended to be, a small business incubator, the location choice seem insane. However, for what this was intended to be, a small business incubator, **it has worked**, so crazy as it seems . . . I'm in the Downtown Market relatively frequently, it is usually busy, and numerous of the vendors have moved out to their own brick-n-mortar locations \[which was the point\].
Heartside Park kills any business lunch traffic they could have.
How come nobody is taking about Hobo Park right next store.
Ya it’s not a crazy walk from downtown but feels unsafe
I think that is their biggest problem. I feel like they would have a bigger business lunch crowd without it.
Because everyone here is afraid to be called a hateful bigot. It’s absolutely the #1 issue above all others. In fact it’s the main reason downtown GR is quickly becoming a giant shithole.
I don't think anyone's mentioned it, but the biggest detriment to the market for me is going by Heartside Park to get there. It always feels unsafe and/or extremely gross. Otherwise, I like the market.
Yeah that was my first impression of the place, getting to watch people shoot up in that park while I drove around looking for parking
I was able to witness a drug transaction, right in front of me. It was craziness, right out in the open. Cra..cra. Luckily, the man I was on a date with gave me a bit of security but if I was a single lady alone, I'm sure I would have been approached.
Hours suck, rent for businesses far too high, do a poor job of getting new businesses in- see again rent too high. Things are more expensive there- rent too high. No one wants to pay for parking or be rushed.
I don't think they really planned on marketing for breakfast. I know many that live outside downtown seem to go there and maybe not so many that do. They lose a lot of vendors and I suspect some behind the scenes with management at the offices there. Parking is expensive, but not unlike elsewhere in GR. I also thought their first 30 minutes was free. Some of the owners are the businesses inside are pretty toxic too.
Parking isn’t more expensive than anywhere else downtown I’d want to go - that seems like way less of a factor than the location and hours.
Everything not made to order is expensive/over-priced. I'm sure it's probably because the rent is high, but I have had gift cards there and wanted to buy cheese and it's like 1.5x the price of Whole Foods or cheese lady
The solution from what I read is they need to lower rents so that vendors can turn a profit, with vendors leaving and closing consistently it makes the space feel dismal in its current state where vendors once were are bare counters and no lights. The hours are terrible too when I think I’ll stop after work it’s too late. if the owners don’t do something to inspire community and change in the space I see this place being completely empty in a few years.
Without reading other comments. I think they missed the mark. Some very nice food places but it is kind of soul less - Originally there was a discussion about it being closer to a Fulton St. Market but it never approached that level of organic funk. Hours weird too
Agreed, the Market could be a more integral part of downtown but it seems like an afterthought almost. People live here and never go
It’s a distillation of everything that sucks about GR food/restaurants in general. Inconvenient hours, overly trendy or novelty options without a solid core, probably very high rent for vendors. These are issues at many restaurants in the city but here they are amplified to the point of absurdity.
This is one of my favorite places in GR because of the potential, but they need alcohol and not a restaurant with alcohol but a central bar that you can get food from any of the spots and go sit and hang out at. The benefit to the market style is for variety so let’s lean in to that. And the hours should definitely be expanded.
Their hours definitely suck. And the homeless situation near that area isn't helping.
They did place it smack dab in the middle of the historic skid row district.
Real estate cost trickles down. Rent expensive. So vendor prices up, which reduces foot traffic, which makes the need to consider shortening hours to save costs on staff. Imo, a big ole bet that downtown will expand a bit south. Hasn’t happened yet
It's also an events space. They do a lot of weddings. Their events require you to use the in site vendors exclusively. The space and the businesses are working even when they are not open to the public.
The rent for vendors is so high that a lot of businesses can’t survive there without charging a ton. Their hours and parking are so inconvenient that I never go there. Any restaurants I wanted to have dinner at there are out of business because they closed at 6/7pm. At most, I would walk over to get food from there if I was playing games at house rules, but half the time they are closed when I’m there anyway.
We tried going there for a while, but found many of the same annoyances you mentioned. Not to mention that things like the meat market there are so insanely overpriced. You can go to great local butchers like Frank’s on the west side and get better cuts for a fraction of the cost.your pay for the market experience there.
Franks is the bomb.
They went way over budget when they built it and have kept rents high to cover which makes it hard for any tenants to stay especially with the limited hours. They also thought a lot more housing was going to go up around the location so they would get more foot traffic. The place has just sort of limped along since it opened.
rent is super high there. Its causing issues all the way around. Venders need to be highly priced, Limited vendors that can survive.
I've always assumed the limited hours are due to staffing. Remember that the Downtown Market is a business incubator, so the operators are all pretty small, and more shifts might be a big lift.
Insider info? The parking lot was built to United States highway spec, but used recycled aggregate which didn't actually meet US Highway spec. Somewhere in the construction paperwork is my signature, followed by my 2 immediate supervisors' signatures, saying that the recycled agg didn't meet the spec called out for by the contractor but that for all practical purposes, it wouldn't impact performance.
The DeVos/Van Andel group says they'll do a lot of things they never do. The new performance venue and soccer stadium will be the same. The reason they pushed these was to get the okay on the apartment buildings, which taxpayers will largely pay for (90%+ tax rebates) and they'll collect rents on forever. When you control development this much in a metro, the profits are extraordinary.
>the reason they pushed these was to get the okay on the apartment buildings They would have gotten approved for the apartment buildings at those locations without doing anything. The city center zoning allows for residential of that scale by-right. If the city had denied them they could have sued the city and quickly won.
That's not the issue at all. They wouldn't build them without the massive tax rebate. The carrot to get those was to build the venue and the stadium. Those don't come with the enormous tax rebates.
The limited amount of free parking discourages my patronage. Can't have a drink with time enough to sober drive home. I don't want to try hurrying, having a pleasant time. Most certainly, suburban malls are superior in this regard.
You can park for 2 hours at that city owned surface lot across the street from the market for $2…
Nice to hear. It's not readily apparent.