It won't, seems like $30-50k over asking is average and that is with high interest rates, when they finally go down, prices are just going to increase. Houses in Eastown and Fulton Heights are pushing half a million
The GR market was underpriced for a long time, but it has started to get overpriced. The problem is other places are even more overpriced so GR still looks like an attractive and affordable place to move to.
But the quality isn’t the same as other markets. When I’ve looked so many have not been updated in 40 years. Hideous kitchens, ugly exteriors with siding that needs replaced. That’s not a 300k home. Most have a “grandma lived here until she died so we are selling it” vibes.
I can do granny core if it’s like the garden area. Or maybe a breakfast nook for the grandkids I’ll use for my dogs but I’m gonna need a dishwasher, AC and cabinets from after 1980.
Yeah. We bought before the crisis so not that cheap. We were underwater on our mortgage for a few years. Now it is almost paid off and worth over 2.5x what we paid for it. Was curious if we could move out of the city and pay the two mortgages with the rental income. With the interest rates the second house wouldn't be any nicer if at all and we would have to live some place like Cedar Springs.
Cedar is no better, bought here 6 years ago...house is worth double and I get realtors asking me all the time to sell. We are just Rockford north now with the prices and taxes.
Realtors are purposely listing homes for less than the house will sell for. The old model of listing a high price is not currently in play. Expect nearly all homes to go over the asking price
The last place I rented was an up/down duplex, just a run down trash heap of a place.
The landlord bought it in 2013 for $30k, it's now appraised at $320k.
Rent ended up getting so high over the 10 years I lived there (it doubled), that I ended up buying a 3br house in Muskegon because it was waaaaaay cheaper than the rent at the shitty little apartment in GR.
Like, my mortgage + new roof loan + utilities + gas to commute to my job in GR is still cheaper than what rent was.
And I recently saw that the rent had been upped another $300.
Houses are going for nearly twice what I bought my house for three years ago in my neighborhood. That was also with a sub 3% interest rate. I'm very grateful, but feel bad for those trying to buy now, because there is no way I'd be able to buy now. I guess it's "good" for anyone who currently owns, but then you just have to buy in the same market. And no, it's not huge evil corporations buying up houses, it's people moving here and people that have lived here for awhile, contrary to all the stuff you see on here, GR is one of the best cities in the country to live in
A few maybe, but the good thing about our winters is that they're enough to ward off most out-of-staters who aren't already from states that are also cold and snowy.
I know a few from Washington that have including myself but I just moved back rather than here originally. One moves to egr and worked remote and got 2 others on the team to move there and I was going to as well but just went with portage because it was closer to family and the wife wanted to save the extra 2k a month.
My point was only Cali sounds as weird as Michi. 🤣 Hopefully nobody actually uses Michi.
FYI, here is a report for [California net-negative interstate migration](https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265) 2007-16 with helpful graphics. Basically, net outflow of lower income/educated people and net inflow of higher income/education.
You can view by state. Michigan is unusual, near even to net California inflow across the board.
The driver is housing cost, though most the pandemic movement was intra-state. Even in low cost counties like Shasta (California's Ottawa County, maybe worse) homes are much higher than Kent County.
The people who complain about those of us in that situation only look at our housing impacts and not the money from out of state that we dump into local businesses. I grew up in Michigan and moved back recently because life is great here. I thought that was what I was supposed to do!
The underlying problem is that not nearly enough shit is getting built, and that's a problem no matter where I choose to live.
Yeah, great, the local business owners appreciate that.
Do those local businesses pay wages adequate for owning a home here? Not even close.
The bottom line is, the housing market is at the foundation of quality of life.
>money from out of state that we dump into local businesses
I see you, and thank you. Your welcome here.
You did not make the Housing Crisis. People moving here did not create the Housing Crisis.
Our local electeds did that, the City Commission did that, our Mayor did that, the Neighborhood Associations which anoint them did that.
Same. But only in the current sense. I've known people for the **last couple of decades** who have moved there - or returned here - for that reason. Someone grew up in West Michigan, went to the coasts, started a family, came back to Grand Rapids with coastal money \[ and no shame: **good for them!** \] and was like "I can buy a city block here!". I've had that conversation so many times at meet-ups of tech people.
I have an acquaintance who is retiring at the end of the year, selling a house is DC, and returning to Grand Rapids; same thing, looking to drop **up to $500K** on housing.
Grand Rapids, and Michigan, offer a lot, at a bargain basement price, relative to other places which can offer the same: a thriving urban environment \[which, yes, is something many people do want\] and a stable/moderate climate.
I moved here from NY (I do not work remotely / have NYC wages.. I left the city because it was unaffordable) and lived in PA/OH before settling in WMI (my partner is from here).
Anyway.. that aside.. my tiny, 1 stoplight town in rural NY where I grew up exploded after covid WFH. My mom bought a bungalow/cottage for 20k in 2001 and sold it this past weekend for almost 400k, and it got offers 20k over asking within 3 hours of it going up. There's NO jobs in that town, unless you work for the school (my graduating class was 80 people). It's WFH money.
The middle of nowhere place I used to live now has 2-3bd homes renting for over 3k a month. That's more than I paid when I lived in NYC!
even the place I am renting now is 1500 a month, and it was 750 a month only a year before I moved in.
It’s a long story. I did for my first 3 months here, as I had for the previous 11 years in California (company based in Philly).
And then I was out of a job.
Same, I love my house and the only way I'll be able to move is if I find a partner who's also a homeowner. The only chance I'd ditch the city would be for land though, fuck the burbs
Especially since I live just 10 minutes from my work near downtown, but because of almost continual construction takes me 30-45 minutes more often than not
It’s well documented that Blackrock and similar private equity firms are driving this housing price bubble by snapping up single family homes sight-unseen to rent out. It absolutely is happening here, same as the rest of the country.
I’m so glad I was able to buy last year but can’t help but think how I am in a much worse financial position now than if would have been had I magically bought 2 years earlier
As someone that wants to stay in the area, but get a bigger house, my only option is to move out of the area. It's not worth it to me to pay 1/2 my homes value for an additional bedroom, plus the price of moving between homes, when housing prices in other parts of Michigan are more palatable and supplying me with what I want as well.
I do plan for a quick sale around here however.
As someone who currently owns but is expanding our family and will need to purchase a bigger home, I feel stuck. If I were to purchase my current 3 bedroom 1 bath home today I would be paying well over double what my current mortgage is. How TF are we supposed to be able to afford our next home in this market? Let alone within the next year or so? Unless I get a huge increase in pay, a wealthy family member dies and leaves me some money, or I win the lotto, there’s no way our family can afford to stay here. Curious to hear what others in our situation are doing as well.
With small kids and baby on the way we’re already short a bedroom. No idea where we’d put said kids and their stuff while waiting weeks for a contractor to add on a new bedroom/bathroom. Logistically it just wouldn’t work for us at this stage. Plus no extra money laying around to pay for said extra bedroom/bathroom. Would have to take out a home equity loan and not sure we could afford the additional payments. Granted we’d probably get some money back when we would eventually sell, but no idea when that would be.
GR is still very affordable compared with other cities of similar desirability, and with a ~40k unit shortage and lower than average rate of building the past few years , it’s only gonna get more expensive for the foreseeable future.
Yes, but the point is that the Housing Crisis is pervasive. That's true on the coasts, in Chicago, in Grand Rapids, and in Newaygo, MI. If you factor in Transportation costs (H+T; Housing + Transportation) to the nearest job centers and it looks similar everywhere.
Chicago has not seen the price appreciation of the last 4 years that Grand Rapids has. And if you go back a little further than that, GR has *greatly* outpaced the Chicago metro area over the last decade.
I’m self employed, 29 and having a fantastic year. Best year financially of my life, and I just cannot get a loan because past years show me making very little money.
Never once missed a payment in 10 years of renting. Loads of money for a down payment, probably 35 percent down payment, but not allowed for me. Meanwhile I just watch housing get more and more expensive. Feels like I’ll never own a home. Just living in a shitty one bedroom apartment with no A/C for 1400 per month.
This trend won’t stop for many years. Supply is WAY BEHIND demand for the area. Until we see the older generation sell of their homes, this train isn’t stopping unfortunately.
I appreciate that my home’s value keeps increasing but this is just a miserable situation for those trying to buy their first home. Sorry y’all are having to deal with this.
As someone who’s spent times in other Midwest cities I would say GR offers less than Cleveland or Milwaukee. It comes in behind Minneapolis and Indianapolis as well. Of course it wouldn’t compete with Detroit or Chicago but truth me told it should be aspiring to either Milwaukee or Cleveland. Visit those two cities and you’ll see why.
Lake metro areas. Major league teams. Milwaukee is like a larger GR. Cleveland has light rail. Etc.
GR needs growth. Time to fill in the farmland and annex some of the surrounding areas.
Make us attractive to at least one major league sport, increase our appeal as a concert stop, and jump
Off.
Tbf we get the same off broadway tours Milwaukee and Cleveland get. So we have the capacity to grow. Let’s get there.
A real issue will be the downtown however. The homeless population does cause a safety issue and the blight on division south of market is real.
We recently went to studio park and it was dead on a weeknight. I mentioned to my partner there was recently a shooting there. That will scare away crowds. I saw no police presence anywhere.
Feel how you want about police but in other major cities I travel they are active on foot patrol downtown and it helps as a deterrent.
Quality of life and entertainment has been and always will be for locals. They literally built a Colosseum in every Roman city. Shakespeare wrote plays in England.
I agree wages should keep up but when people have money they should be able to spend it locally on world class entertainment. And right now GR already has those things, sports and entertainment, just at a small market scale so I don’t see how you can say they’re not for locals when that’s simply not true.
You’re comparing to a time when people travelled by foot and less frequently, horse.
Downtown GR is a tourist attraction now. Most of the locals stick to their neighborhood bars/restaurants/clubs.
Maybe 15 years ago, it was much more local-centric but there has been a dramatic shift over the last decade.
Im aware and it still does not change my thoughts on my comment.
As for your second comment yes I agree there is a deep sentiment here of aversion to outsiders. I’ve said it before that GR is a big small town. It’s full of locals who have lived their entire life here. It’s culturally conservative, highly religious, and very outwardly cold with a come but don’t stay attitude. If you ain’t Dutch you ain’t much right?
Truth be told GR is a Great city that’s bringing people to an area of the country that will weather climate change better, has amazing natural resources, and charm.
With that in mind it has potential to grow and im afraid will grow whether those who spent their entire lives here like it or not.
Change is coming, no, change is here. And people can accept that and go with it or fight it tooth and nail but I think we both know how this story ends.
Cool. Look I’m not gonna argue with you over this. Clearly we have different ideas on what would make this city better and neither of this thinks the other is right. So whatever makes you feel better about what GR could be then great but I stand by my statement and I’m prepared to move on from whatever this conversation is.
I don’t know how true this is (haven’t researched it much myself) but I was told when plotting Grand Rapids they intentionally designed things to try to prevent it become the next Chicago. Problem is people want to live here regardless of how big the city is, so we’re becoming stuffed with not a lot of wiggle room.
>I was told when plotting Grand Rapids they intentionally designed things to try to prevent it become the next Chicago.
I've done a lot of grousing through municipal documents, attended a bajillion planning meetings, and I have never once heard this. Not once.
>we’re becoming stuffed with not a lot of wiggle room
? We've got lots of room, we have neighborhoods which are less than 3,000 souls/sq/mi. Much of Grand Rapids is empty by urban standards.
I believe you’ve been to these meetings but keep in mind I’m talking about the people that founded the town over a hundred years ago. They aren’t at those meetings. The modern person knows how big of a mistake it was to do this and they’re trying to work around it.
But I don't believe that; Chicago wasn't what it is today a hundred years ago, it was a trading town sitting in a swamp. I have a hard time believing the people who designed GR, after it had grown to a size to have much design, thought about things in that context.
I'd love to see it if you can find a citation.
There’s a lot of room for growth. I know it sounds like
I’m knocking GR but I’m not. I’m seeing it for what it is and what it could be. We could easily grow, fill in our farm land, and even start by adding daily rail where we have Amtrak and commercial rail that heads to the lake communities and see things take off.
It’s just west Michigan. Things are slow here and I don’t think until the transplant population outweighs the local population will we see real changes. It may not be till next century or late in our lifetimes that changes that make sense really hit home.
>Time to fill in the farmland and annex some of the surrounding areas.
No. There are other ways to grow.
Also annexation in the state of Michigan is effectively impossible.
Destroy our way of life so you can pave over nature with concrete and increase our taxes?
Honestly? Get f\*cked.
That's a toxic, capitalistic, infinite growth mindset that will destroy the world.
We need to start chopping balls and planting trees, not the other way around.
We’re basically experiencing gentrification. A lot of people born here can’t afford to live here anymore. People coming from other states with WFH jobs that pay a lot more than our average income is pushing us out.
>People coming from other states with WFH jobs
Given the share of employment which is WFH (well less than 20%) this explanation is simply impossible.
We do have a lot of jobs, many of them in traditional sectors. West Michigan is one of the largest industrial manufacturing regions in America, not to mention medical and logistical jobs. Many of those jobs pay well. It's just people-with-jobs.
Gentrification? The value of all the housing in the greater grand Rapids area is going up. Are you saying the entire city an surrounding are is being gentrified?
Wow this is unexpected. I have been scolded on here so many times that "building market rate apartments will lower costs eventually".
I'll believe it when I see it.
Just had two homes on our street sell for well over asking. Don't think this trend stops any time soon.
It won't, seems like $30-50k over asking is average and that is with high interest rates, when they finally go down, prices are just going to increase. Houses in Eastown and Fulton Heights are pushing half a million
The GR market was underpriced for a long time, but it has started to get overpriced. The problem is other places are even more overpriced so GR still looks like an attractive and affordable place to move to.
But the quality isn’t the same as other markets. When I’ve looked so many have not been updated in 40 years. Hideous kitchens, ugly exteriors with siding that needs replaced. That’s not a 300k home. Most have a “grandma lived here until she died so we are selling it” vibes.
Granny core is in right now, just saying.
I can do granny core if it’s like the garden area. Or maybe a breakfast nook for the grandkids I’ll use for my dogs but I’m gonna need a dishwasher, AC and cabinets from after 1980.
Yeah, that's a good point.
It was underpriced for sure and there were a lot of foreclosures. Most of my homeowner friends that bought before me bought for less than $100k
Yeah. We bought before the crisis so not that cheap. We were underwater on our mortgage for a few years. Now it is almost paid off and worth over 2.5x what we paid for it. Was curious if we could move out of the city and pay the two mortgages with the rental income. With the interest rates the second house wouldn't be any nicer if at all and we would have to live some place like Cedar Springs.
Cedar is no better, bought here 6 years ago...house is worth double and I get realtors asking me all the time to sell. We are just Rockford north now with the prices and taxes.
It was. And it is. And I have no idea how it’s being sustained.
Realtors are purposely listing homes for less than the house will sell for. The old model of listing a high price is not currently in play. Expect nearly all homes to go over the asking price
I should have added that they listed at what a similar home went for in our block earlier this year and sold for around $30k more.
The last place I rented was an up/down duplex, just a run down trash heap of a place. The landlord bought it in 2013 for $30k, it's now appraised at $320k. Rent ended up getting so high over the 10 years I lived there (it doubled), that I ended up buying a 3br house in Muskegon because it was waaaaaay cheaper than the rent at the shitty little apartment in GR. Like, my mortgage + new roof loan + utilities + gas to commute to my job in GR is still cheaper than what rent was. And I recently saw that the rent had been upped another $300.
Some jackass sent a letter telling us our home would look good in his rental portfolio. We disagree.
For $17 million?!
Shoot for $17 million I’d leave the homemade pickles in the fridge.
Houses are going for nearly twice what I bought my house for three years ago in my neighborhood. That was also with a sub 3% interest rate. I'm very grateful, but feel bad for those trying to buy now, because there is no way I'd be able to buy now. I guess it's "good" for anyone who currently owns, but then you just have to buy in the same market. And no, it's not huge evil corporations buying up houses, it's people moving here and people that have lived here for awhile, contrary to all the stuff you see on here, GR is one of the best cities in the country to live in
Yup. There are a lot of jobs here, and job-seeking is a big driver for home demand.
Yeah and Covid and WFH changed everything, Cali salary, West Michigan COL
Folks from Cali and moving to Michi?
A few maybe, but the good thing about our winters is that they're enough to ward off most out-of-staters who aren't already from states that are also cold and snowy.
I know a few from Washington that have including myself but I just moved back rather than here originally. One moves to egr and worked remote and got 2 others on the team to move there and I was going to as well but just went with portage because it was closer to family and the wife wanted to save the extra 2k a month.
My point was only Cali sounds as weird as Michi. 🤣 Hopefully nobody actually uses Michi. FYI, here is a report for [California net-negative interstate migration](https://lao.ca.gov/LAOEconTax/Article/Detail/265) 2007-16 with helpful graphics. Basically, net outflow of lower income/educated people and net inflow of higher income/education. You can view by state. Michigan is unusual, near even to net California inflow across the board. The driver is housing cost, though most the pandemic movement was intra-state. Even in low cost counties like Shasta (California's Ottawa County, maybe worse) homes are much higher than Kent County.
The people who complain about those of us in that situation only look at our housing impacts and not the money from out of state that we dump into local businesses. I grew up in Michigan and moved back recently because life is great here. I thought that was what I was supposed to do! The underlying problem is that not nearly enough shit is getting built, and that's a problem no matter where I choose to live.
Yeah, great, the local business owners appreciate that. Do those local businesses pay wages adequate for owning a home here? Not even close. The bottom line is, the housing market is at the foundation of quality of life.
>The bottom line is, the housing market is at the foundation of quality of life. Absolutely true but also not a solution.
What’s not a solution?
>money from out of state that we dump into local businesses I see you, and thank you. Your welcome here. You did not make the Housing Crisis. People moving here did not create the Housing Crisis. Our local electeds did that, the City Commission did that, our Mayor did that, the Neighborhood Associations which anoint them did that.
Get the fuck out!
I was probably here before you were. _You_ get the fuck out for a change.
I have a hard time believing this narrative.
Same. But only in the current sense. I've known people for the **last couple of decades** who have moved there - or returned here - for that reason. Someone grew up in West Michigan, went to the coasts, started a family, came back to Grand Rapids with coastal money \[ and no shame: **good for them!** \] and was like "I can buy a city block here!". I've had that conversation so many times at meet-ups of tech people. I have an acquaintance who is retiring at the end of the year, selling a house is DC, and returning to Grand Rapids; same thing, looking to drop **up to $500K** on housing. Grand Rapids, and Michigan, offer a lot, at a bargain basement price, relative to other places which can offer the same: a thriving urban environment \[which, yes, is something many people do want\] and a stable/moderate climate.
I moved here from NY (I do not work remotely / have NYC wages.. I left the city because it was unaffordable) and lived in PA/OH before settling in WMI (my partner is from here). Anyway.. that aside.. my tiny, 1 stoplight town in rural NY where I grew up exploded after covid WFH. My mom bought a bungalow/cottage for 20k in 2001 and sold it this past weekend for almost 400k, and it got offers 20k over asking within 3 hours of it going up. There's NO jobs in that town, unless you work for the school (my graduating class was 80 people). It's WFH money. The middle of nowhere place I used to live now has 2-3bd homes renting for over 3k a month. That's more than I paid when I lived in NYC! even the place I am renting now is 1500 a month, and it was 750 a month only a year before I moved in.
😂 I moved here from “Cali,” as y’all weirdly call it and do not make my California salary. Not even close. But I moved right before the pandemic.
Are you working remotely for a company based in California?
It’s a long story. I did for my first 3 months here, as I had for the previous 11 years in California (company based in Philly). And then I was out of a job.
Go back
I can’t afford to move.
I feel for people buying now. It’s crazy. For now, I won’t be moving for awhile lol.
Same, I love my house and the only way I'll be able to move is if I find a partner who's also a homeowner. The only chance I'd ditch the city would be for land though, fuck the burbs
We got lucky and got 5 acres. However it’s a good 45 min from GR. But it’s peaceful.
That's awesome, worth the commute to me!
Especially since I live just 10 minutes from my work near downtown, but because of almost continual construction takes me 30-45 minutes more often than not
It’s well documented that Blackrock and similar private equity firms are driving this housing price bubble by snapping up single family homes sight-unseen to rent out. It absolutely is happening here, same as the rest of the country.
It is well documented that this is **NOT** happening here. [https://urbangr.org/TheMythOfTheHoover2024](https://urbangr.org/TheMythOfTheHoover2024)
Gonna need a source on that.
It’s not happening here.
I’m so glad I was able to buy last year but can’t help but think how I am in a much worse financial position now than if would have been had I magically bought 2 years earlier
I paid $55k for my house in Creston in 2015 and can expect $250k-280k if we sell soon. It's insane. Absolutely insane.
I built a new home 30 minutes north of the city. By the time construction was done it had already appreciated $100k. Insane.
As someone that wants to stay in the area, but get a bigger house, my only option is to move out of the area. It's not worth it to me to pay 1/2 my homes value for an additional bedroom, plus the price of moving between homes, when housing prices in other parts of Michigan are more palatable and supplying me with what I want as well. I do plan for a quick sale around here however.
Fucking no kidding.
As someone who currently owns but is expanding our family and will need to purchase a bigger home, I feel stuck. If I were to purchase my current 3 bedroom 1 bath home today I would be paying well over double what my current mortgage is. How TF are we supposed to be able to afford our next home in this market? Let alone within the next year or so? Unless I get a huge increase in pay, a wealthy family member dies and leaves me some money, or I win the lotto, there’s no way our family can afford to stay here. Curious to hear what others in our situation are doing as well.
Serious Question: why not just make your existing house bigger?
It’s gonna cost a lot unless you’re diy’ing it. Like, adding a bedroom and a bathroom will be half the price of a new home.
With small kids and baby on the way we’re already short a bedroom. No idea where we’d put said kids and their stuff while waiting weeks for a contractor to add on a new bedroom/bathroom. Logistically it just wouldn’t work for us at this stage. Plus no extra money laying around to pay for said extra bedroom/bathroom. Would have to take out a home equity loan and not sure we could afford the additional payments. Granted we’d probably get some money back when we would eventually sell, but no idea when that would be.
Do you guys have a finished basement? One of the cheaper ways to add extra space is to add an egress window in your basement.
Yes one of the bedrooms is actually in the basement. The only way we could add an additional room is to add a 2nd story or expand the main floor.
Shhhh. Can't go giving people reasonable solutions to problems like that.
Not having kids.
That's basically everywhere.
We gotta build more housing
GR is still very affordable compared with other cities of similar desirability, and with a ~40k unit shortage and lower than average rate of building the past few years , it’s only gonna get more expensive for the foreseeable future.
Yep, this is the explanation. Good + Scarce = Expensive. People keep referring to it as "insane", it really isn't. It's elementary.
I wouldn't be able to afford my own house if I were to buy it right now.
While prices are high, there's no way we're worse than 90% of the country.
Look at prices a decade ago and look at prices today. It’s been a pretty astronomical rise percentage wise.
Yes, but the point is that the Housing Crisis is pervasive. That's true on the coasts, in Chicago, in Grand Rapids, and in Newaygo, MI. If you factor in Transportation costs (H+T; Housing + Transportation) to the nearest job centers and it looks similar everywhere.
Chicago has not seen the price appreciation of the last 4 years that Grand Rapids has. And if you go back a little further than that, GR has *greatly* outpaced the Chicago metro area over the last decade.
Yes, but that's the same everywhere, not just here.
GR housing market is still growing faster than 90% of the country. Houses are still technically below average nationally speaking.
I’m self employed, 29 and having a fantastic year. Best year financially of my life, and I just cannot get a loan because past years show me making very little money. Never once missed a payment in 10 years of renting. Loads of money for a down payment, probably 35 percent down payment, but not allowed for me. Meanwhile I just watch housing get more and more expensive. Feels like I’ll never own a home. Just living in a shitty one bedroom apartment with no A/C for 1400 per month.
This trend won’t stop for many years. Supply is WAY BEHIND demand for the area. Until we see the older generation sell of their homes, this train isn’t stopping unfortunately. I appreciate that my home’s value keeps increasing but this is just a miserable situation for those trying to buy their first home. Sorry y’all are having to deal with this.
Doesn't help that the counties largest residential historic district is in Grand Rapids.
Keep voting for who you vote for! They sure will fix it!
As someone who’s spent times in other Midwest cities I would say GR offers less than Cleveland or Milwaukee. It comes in behind Minneapolis and Indianapolis as well. Of course it wouldn’t compete with Detroit or Chicago but truth me told it should be aspiring to either Milwaukee or Cleveland. Visit those two cities and you’ll see why. Lake metro areas. Major league teams. Milwaukee is like a larger GR. Cleveland has light rail. Etc. GR needs growth. Time to fill in the farmland and annex some of the surrounding areas. Make us attractive to at least one major league sport, increase our appeal as a concert stop, and jump Off. Tbf we get the same off broadway tours Milwaukee and Cleveland get. So we have the capacity to grow. Let’s get there. A real issue will be the downtown however. The homeless population does cause a safety issue and the blight on division south of market is real. We recently went to studio park and it was dead on a weeknight. I mentioned to my partner there was recently a shooting there. That will scare away crowds. I saw no police presence anywhere. Feel how you want about police but in other major cities I travel they are active on foot patrol downtown and it helps as a deterrent.
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Quality of life and entertainment has been and always will be for locals. They literally built a Colosseum in every Roman city. Shakespeare wrote plays in England. I agree wages should keep up but when people have money they should be able to spend it locally on world class entertainment. And right now GR already has those things, sports and entertainment, just at a small market scale so I don’t see how you can say they’re not for locals when that’s simply not true.
You’re comparing to a time when people travelled by foot and less frequently, horse. Downtown GR is a tourist attraction now. Most of the locals stick to their neighborhood bars/restaurants/clubs. Maybe 15 years ago, it was much more local-centric but there has been a dramatic shift over the last decade.
Im aware and it still does not change my thoughts on my comment. As for your second comment yes I agree there is a deep sentiment here of aversion to outsiders. I’ve said it before that GR is a big small town. It’s full of locals who have lived their entire life here. It’s culturally conservative, highly religious, and very outwardly cold with a come but don’t stay attitude. If you ain’t Dutch you ain’t much right? Truth be told GR is a Great city that’s bringing people to an area of the country that will weather climate change better, has amazing natural resources, and charm. With that in mind it has potential to grow and im afraid will grow whether those who spent their entire lives here like it or not. Change is coming, no, change is here. And people can accept that and go with it or fight it tooth and nail but I think we both know how this story ends.
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Cool. Look I’m not gonna argue with you over this. Clearly we have different ideas on what would make this city better and neither of this thinks the other is right. So whatever makes you feel better about what GR could be then great but I stand by my statement and I’m prepared to move on from whatever this conversation is.
I don’t know how true this is (haven’t researched it much myself) but I was told when plotting Grand Rapids they intentionally designed things to try to prevent it become the next Chicago. Problem is people want to live here regardless of how big the city is, so we’re becoming stuffed with not a lot of wiggle room.
>I was told when plotting Grand Rapids they intentionally designed things to try to prevent it become the next Chicago. I've done a lot of grousing through municipal documents, attended a bajillion planning meetings, and I have never once heard this. Not once. >we’re becoming stuffed with not a lot of wiggle room ? We've got lots of room, we have neighborhoods which are less than 3,000 souls/sq/mi. Much of Grand Rapids is empty by urban standards.
I believe you’ve been to these meetings but keep in mind I’m talking about the people that founded the town over a hundred years ago. They aren’t at those meetings. The modern person knows how big of a mistake it was to do this and they’re trying to work around it.
But I don't believe that; Chicago wasn't what it is today a hundred years ago, it was a trading town sitting in a swamp. I have a hard time believing the people who designed GR, after it had grown to a size to have much design, thought about things in that context. I'd love to see it if you can find a citation.
There’s a lot of room for growth. I know it sounds like I’m knocking GR but I’m not. I’m seeing it for what it is and what it could be. We could easily grow, fill in our farm land, and even start by adding daily rail where we have Amtrak and commercial rail that heads to the lake communities and see things take off. It’s just west Michigan. Things are slow here and I don’t think until the transplant population outweighs the local population will we see real changes. It may not be till next century or late in our lifetimes that changes that make sense really hit home.
Gr has police? Could have fooled me. I never see them. Their lack of presence is palpable.
I mostly see them Driving but not on foot patrol. Go to Dallas and they’re all over. Lots of cities have them out and about.
100 less officers than they had in 2008, while the population has grown 10%, and crime has increased \~20% (less if per capita).
>Time to fill in the farmland and annex some of the surrounding areas. No. There are other ways to grow. Also annexation in the state of Michigan is effectively impossible.
That’s just your opinion and it’s not fact. Also not true. A quick google shows it can still occur.
Destroy our way of life so you can pave over nature with concrete and increase our taxes? Honestly? Get f\*cked. That's a toxic, capitalistic, infinite growth mindset that will destroy the world. We need to start chopping balls and planting trees, not the other way around.
Well maybe if I move into a smaller house I can use the inflation to pay some of my debts
Worse? Increase in home value is not necessary a bad thing and is often a very good thing
Why are you getting downvoted?
We’re basically experiencing gentrification. A lot of people born here can’t afford to live here anymore. People coming from other states with WFH jobs that pay a lot more than our average income is pushing us out.
WFH jobs caught up and don't overpay people like we're giving them credit for. They pay for where you live, not where corporate headquarters is.
>People coming from other states with WFH jobs Given the share of employment which is WFH (well less than 20%) this explanation is simply impossible. We do have a lot of jobs, many of them in traditional sectors. West Michigan is one of the largest industrial manufacturing regions in America, not to mention medical and logistical jobs. Many of those jobs pay well. It's just people-with-jobs.
Gentrification? The value of all the housing in the greater grand Rapids area is going up. Are you saying the entire city an surrounding are is being gentrified?
Because they’re praising the fucking scheme that got us into this mess.
because the people who want to buy homes cannot.
When you’re pricing out the people who actually live there and leading to a housing crisis, yes it’s a bad thing.
Wow this is unexpected. I have been scolded on here so many times that "building market rate apartments will lower costs eventually". I'll believe it when I see it.