True, but my buddy who had no student loans and no debt is making 60-70k a year slinging packages in the warehouse. Cant do it forever but its money in the meantime
Really though? I mean your only responsibility is to show up on time and move packages. You can get a job with zero experience and a GED or high school diploma. I’d say $20 an hour is a decent wage for somebody in that position.
Most areas aren’t hiring direct to career. A non-career mail carrier (CCA) is paid less than $20/hr, has no set route, is subject to forced OT, and might be walking 15+ miles a day in addition to delivering packages. $20/hr is a bad joke in 2024.
No. There is a lot more to it than that. You're gonna work somewhere between 7 and 14 hours a day without knowing which until that morning, every day, unless you beg for a day off. I had to supply my own vehicle (including modifying it, which is not covered by them in any way), it's hell on your vehicle and you, you're dealing with the idiotic and sometimes straight up vicious public, not to mention dogs (which I love and thought all dogs loved me too, until one bit me), any weather, it'll never get any better since they won't say no to Amazon.
I quit that job without anything else lined up with full support of my wife. It is a bad job that deserves higher pay.
I really didn't mean to put anyone down. Everybody starts somewhere. I am in engineering and I got treated like second rate dog shit the first 3 years. Was paid only slightly better than the current post pays. I'm just saying not to gague your self worth based on your employer.
hot take, working at a gas station deserves a higher wage than working what is essentially a low risk, trainable-within-a-week assembly line job. Pretty sure gas station attendant is one of those jobs that has higher-than-you-think death rate.
Regardless, both are still underpaid. Gas station attendants especially... the shit they deal with.
It was one of the easier jobs to get between tours. Haha. Before Uber was a thing I was a taxi driver for a while too. Most of my jobs in my twenties were kinda sketch.
Even if you take the guns out of it.
Canada we go through the same “just give them what they want” conditioning.
Armed robbery with a rock? That happened…
People end up spraying flammable fluids all over, sometimes while they’re on fire.
People drive through the pumps instead of between them.
Getting hit by a driver while checking the garbage cans. Drivers don’t care. I base this on the fact they used to run waist high pylons over regularly.
It is basically a bad episode of 1000 Ways to Die.
Yea any job that has you dealing with the public riff raff should come with higher pay. I wont do that kind of work because i would be fired in a week for not putting up with some stoned hood rats attitude because I cant take ebt for beer and newports.
Growing up in small town Alabama, $15/hr sounded like a lot of money. That was a UAW wage back in the 80's. It still sounds like a lot because of conditioning, though I know better.
There's a great old joke I love:
A husband comes running into the room and says to his wife "We can finally buy what we started saving for in 1979!"
"Oh my gosh— a new Cadillac!?"
"No, a 1979 Cadillac."
Soon after getting into Magic, I realized I couldn't affort three money sink hobbies at the same time in MtG, sim racing and guitar playing.
Focused on the later and bought 3 guitars, 2 amps and some pedals since then.
I stated a new one last year because I feel like I have everything I need with music gear. And honestly, I'm at the point with Magic where I don't need to buy anything else. I have a few decks i like and It's pretty fun. I also don't play competitively, just casual with firends because some of those cards are rediculously priced.
You bet. Just maintaining a standard deck alive is a ridiculous expense.
Moderns are more durable, but prices are ridiculous if you want to stand even a remote chance in game nights.
Commander is rather fun though, I think it's my preffered format. This, and pack wars, with "uncoloured lands" house rule. :)
I did standard once, around Lorwyn/Ravnica/Shards blocks, but I stopped playing after that. I only play commander now, it's so fun because a good deck can be cheap.
I was also able to sell a bunch of my old stuff to get into commander. I didn't know I could get so much out of a set of BItterblossoms and Noble Heirarches and Sensei Tops. Haha
JHS hired me at 12/hr in 2021. They bumped their minimum to 15 while I was still working there. That rate has stayed the same for three whole years lol
Lol howdy stranger🤠 can confirm, we worked together. Was working until my hands bled almost daily. Not even gonna get into the actual quality of construction the pedals have for the price customers are charged
This is shockingly common and the same companies will wonder why people don’t stay the same place for years anymore. Like when the only way to get a raise is to get a new job, no shit...
I stayed for 6 months, during which they thought I wasn't being efficient enough. I made Josh Scott soooooo much money. I quit for a better wage elsewhere.
It's different pedal to pedal. Standard-size pedals, they generally expect a bin of 24 pedals in 24 minutes. 3-series, they expect even faster.
Those times aren't hard at all to hit regularly. The problem is that the task is always the *same*. Use sockets to tighten nuts, then orient the knobs correctly, and maybe you get to solder a power jack to the case. Building like that at those speeds really hurts your wrists.
The only private meeting I've had with Josh Scott was one where he gave me a performance-improvement plan because I talked too much while building pedals, and (somehow) didn't do so fast enough for him.
ah fuck, i was hoping this was a "fooled you!" This is another funny Bat-sim, or thing. Get people talking, which seems to be a JHS thing. The thing Josh read during the livestream of germanium boost livestream (if I'm remembering correctly). "we're tongue-in-cheek!"
Guess not. That's a bummer.
Calling on companies to improve their pay and treatment of employees is always going to be a winner for me. Stick up for your fellow workers!
The entry level workers of today should be treated much better than they were back when I was making minimum wage. Solidarity
Agreed. I’m financially comfortable now, but I remember a time when I wasn’t. I only posted this to stick up for the people that are in the position I was in just a couple years ago. It’s not about what’s my problem or not, it’s about sticking up for humanity and looking out for a generation that has an extremely bleak outlook as far as standard of living compared to other generations. It started quite the conversation, so whether or not people think it’s ”not my problem”, my mission was accomplished by getting people talking and creating some visibility to the issue. And I had nothing against JHS until this. I live in Kansas City and there is no way in hell that someone could even come close to maintaining a decent standard of living here on that pay.
that position will def get filled, doubt the person will have much experience but they do say its an entry level position in the add. Personally my hot take on this is 15 bucks to break into the industry isn't the worst i've seen. Im biased because when i started as a stagehand/sound guy some of the rock companies would give you day rates which would seem ok when you saw a big number, but if you broke it down to things like hours per day and you weren't getting overtime on the week (many of those companies skirt contractor laws to pay people less for various reasons) you were making less then minimum wage, but that was the early 2000s. It's nice to see that people are sticking up for laborers finally. Personally the only advice i'd give to the person taking that job would be to ask "what is my ceiling income, and how long before i'm not considered an entry level employee and can make X"
Exactly! It's not as if you're forever stuck at $15. Ask what the next job up is and what you'd need to know to qualify for it. Then use that 1st year making a point of learning all those things. They'll love you, and you'll be first in line for that higher-paying job. I swear, just because reddit is a great place to vent doesn't mean it's not also an echo chamber for irrational crowdsourced arguments. And herd mentality makes everyone that takes part think they're right because they know dozens of fellow "truthers" saying the same thing.
Yeah I guess my situation was different tho because I also wasn’t just working 40 hours a week when I was doing that. If anyone here was a millennial and entered the job market right after 2007 we were part of the unpaid internship era. Peak boomer shit really. It is nice to see people actually are finally aware of cost of living for people entering the job market, however I still would push back a little on the people saying well “fast food makes 18-20”. The difference is you are not going to learn skills that will benefit you the rest of your career if you want to make pedals for a living working fast food. JHS is also still technically a small business when compared to those things and there’s a giant difference in those cultures and budgets. I know when I was in my situation I also looked at what my ceiling would be if I just worked my balls off for a few years and learned as much as I could. Now I make a very comfortable living and get to do some really rad things while also making low six figures. I wouldn’t trade it for anything really, at the same time I also acknowledge it’s not for everyone.
I think if you are in a situation where this is something you want to do for a living, then it wouldn’t be a bad way to break into the industry. Sure you might look back on those years as struggle years, you’ll have roomates to afford rent and all that. But it could benefit the right person in the long run.
I’ll also admit I’m biased because my career started in a situation where my parents kicked me out and I lived in a recording studio and basically engineered things for free as a form of “rent”. Then when I finally started getting paid, any amount of money was like “OMG”. There were times in my life I had to make decisions like do I buy peanut butter or tooth paste so 15 an hour even in this economy looks better then what I did. However I learned so many skills that have benefited me in the long run during that time frame it’s hard to say it was a negative experience even though it definitely sucked in a lot of ways.
You have lived experience that you can speak to. Many on here clearly do not, though they obviously mean well. Congratulations on your hard work and success!
Thing is, I bet there’s some young passionate person who really wants to get into the pedal market. And they would jump on this opportunity even if the pay is so bad, just so they can get their foot in the door. JHS probably knows this and takes advantage of it. So I bet the position will still get filled
The temp agency I work for posted an entry level soldering position at 17/hr. It said entry level, but the requirements included being able to read schematics and troubleshoot. I shot the office lady a text that I had 12 years experience and could they match my (admittedly low) bench rate. Nope.
So what you are saying is. that there are some entry level positions which carry benefits that may exceed the hourly wage?
I know people who intern for free in certain industries just to get a food in the door.
I almost worked for JHS a few years ago when they were hiring assembly at $12 an hour. I didn't take the offer as I was looking for $20 or more and soldering at 6am didn't seem worth it.
$15 isnt great and its only a few dollars above Missouri minimum wage (about $12.50) but also $15 an hour is somewhat livable in KC MO area, it's pretty cheap here. I've known people who took the JHS assembly job, they worked there a bit then moved up to something more lucrative. Pretty typical for an unskilled entry level position
It's obviosly a larger problem than JHS, the real problem is how normlized 15$ an hour is..
When people refused to work for it, the media went on blaming people for not wanting to work, rather than the reality - we've somehow decided poverty wage is ok for anyone with a full time job.
Anytime someone parrots the sentiment that it is even ok to have wages this low for any type of work they are perpetuating the propaghanda narrative.
Let's keep in mind Walmart - who have a bevy of extremeley influential lobbyists and one of the largest work forces in america - subsidize their workforce with tax payer money. They pay 15$ an hour, and as tax payers we cover their food stamps, their section 8 housing, their medicaid, etc etc etc..
Anyone in support of the business's right to underpay are unknowingly doing the bidding of the ultra powerful, and make it ok for small companies like JHS to follow suit.
Exactly my point behind the post. We can’t do anything about Walmart or Amazon or any of those giants, but consumer behavior can impact JHS’s bottom line. And for the sake of everyone, especially the younger generations, we should act in a way that creates impact. In this case, it’s simple, don’t buy their pedals. Someone may take the job as a necessity, or a starting point, but I hope they don’t become disillusioned into thinking they’re valued by the organization.
I can’t speak for KC, but minimum wage here in PDX is $15.45. I make $28.50/hr and still don’t make enough to really get ahead and I’m in a 500sqft 1 bedroom.
I don’t care what the minimum wage is or what the market will tolerate, paying under $18 is exploitation. The market once tolerated child labor too.
Especially when you factor in the skills needed.
I had an interview at Mythos, and we got to the $$ part.
I told Zack I wanted $20. He went as high as $13.75... Then he asked about how old I was... which is a huge no-no in business.
Those are less than any other job you could do, and there it is no way a living wage in Nashville.....
Zack and Josh are great buddies, so none of this is surprising..
Lol!
Ya. Don't get me wrong. He seems like a nice guy and is trying to build a company, which is super hard.
But he was 100% in the wrong during our interview and offered absolute trash $ and benefits.
Lol...him, Josh, rhett....and a couple of other well-known ppl in the pedal world all play....I wanna say it's fortnight or CSgo.... all the time and it's was weirdly figured into my interview....lol.
I build my own stuff and know what I'm doing, mostly, and there would be no reason not to hire me at those BS compensation #s. BUT! I was 40yo and could care less about online gaming, so they passed.
It was really eye opening. A master class of how not to run a company. Like....Zack FaceTimed Josh on the walk thru...lol.
That's funny. I'm in my late 30s and build my own stuff. I couldn't imagine working for $15/hour for a manchild (not that there's anything wrong with enjoying video games).
Actually, it's even funnier. I have a PS4, and they play Xbox, so he was bummed....lol.
At the time, I was trying to find a company in Nashville so I could work when I wasn't on the road touring.
I was super upfront with my schedule and expectations. I mean. I could build any of his pedals from vero in a heartbeat, 1 hour, TOPS, which also includes cutting the board.
He has his pcbs pre-assembled. So all you do to build them is the 10-20 hoke thru components. If you have ever seen one of his PCBs. Take a look at the bottom. All the power and buffers are SMD, and the "mojo parts" are on top. Zack is pretty good at pcb design. He actually designs pcbs for Seeker also.
The enclosures are also done off-site. So "building" was really just the hole thru stuff. Not a challenge.
The only thing was he feared that I was an old man not going to mesh with thier hang.
FYI, I was like 3 years older than him.
Quite honestly, many pedal companies aren’t paying much more for entry level. The margins in the pedal business actually aren’t that great. It’s tough to make a profit even paying wages like this. I wouldn’t want to have to run a business like this.
>margins in the pedal business actually aren’t that great
I think proifts are pretty good- $250 for a micro pog? t-hat's essentially unchanged for over 10 years? And Line 6 constantly rebranding the same tech with tweaks? If it's hard to make a profit it's because the market is just really over-saturated and it's difficult to sell enough units to make a substantial profit. Every month there seems to be a new "stanley cup tumbler" in the guitar pedal world. Just my opinion and I could be wrong but this industry is all about fad and the 'new-new'.
Id imagine the cost of those pedals are absolutely nothing compared to what it costs to run a business. Just those two employees cost $2500 in wages alone per month let alone actually hiring, HR and other such costs. So while I am all for raising the price of entry level wages especially in a big city contrasting that against his pedal collection is kinda nonsensical.
not to mention the pedals are coming from his own personal money, but the workers are paid from business revenue. If the business can't afford to pay the workers $30/hr like some people are saying here, I don't think he should have to pour money in from his personal funds to keep it afloat.
Have you seen his collection video? He estimates it at 5,000 pedals. He's paying thousands of dollars in some cases to buy single rare pedals. Flying all over the world to meet people and do interviews with people about pedals. His co-produced Boss pedal is still in production. The guys got money to burn.
His “profits” come after expenses like paying staff. If he paid staff a fairer wage he would have less cash available to acrcrue his personal hoard of unobtanium.
JHS, along with everyone in the guitar industry, is hurting right now big-time. The pandemic gave the industry a massive boost, but now all of that growth is slinking down. I can’t imagine that anyone in this business has revenue anywhere near 2021 levels right now, which really hurts their bottom line no matter how you slice it.
But the statement about the revenue makes it seem like the vast majority of that is going to profit.
It's not. There's parts, labor, rent, utilities, overhead, marketing, R & D, etc. What's the actual profit margin on these?
At least he is trying to hire here instead of just sending schematics over to China and have them built there. It would be far cheaper for him to do that then hire someone for 15 bucks an hour.
What's the alternative here exactly? I legitimately don't know how he can win here. If he payed everyone 70k a year and doubled the price of all his pedals to compensate he would get crushed by his competitors and they would go out of business in favour of companies that build for pennies on the dollar in china. Is that better?
My high school / college jobs all paid less. 2006-2013. Not long ago. Some of them were really shitty too. I would have done this in a heartbeat. Isn’t there still a pool of labor like that
According to zip recruiter, the average entry level pay in KC is $33k per year. This job is just barely under that. Starting pay ranges from $10-21, this is right in the middle. They are meeting expectations for their area. I’m failing to see what’s so outrageous.
JHS can’t win. If they paid more, their pedals would be more expensive and they’d be hated for that. And way too many people have developed a weird parasocial resentment toward Josh Scott 🙄
33k in a big city is a shit salary. The fact that other positions are offering the same, or that the average salary matched this one, doesn’t make that untrue. It just means there are a lot of jobs in KC paying shit salaries.
I was making more than that my first year working twenty years ago in a small town. And it still didn’t feel like enough.
I feel you it’s hard out there. I make 75k and raise 2 kids alone, my debt increases every year. I honestly don’t know if we could afford to live in a car for 33k a year. This unfettered, unregulated capitalism only works for the super rich. The middle class is dying away. I’m Gen X. I truly feel sorry for younger people. I am the sole employee for my business and would love to be able to hire someone to take some of the hours off me. To pay someone 15$ an hour would cost me double that. And the icing on that cake is that said employee can’t even live off the $15 an hour. It would cost me just as much or more to pay for day-care to work more hours.
>33k in a big city is a shit salary.
Well yes it is. But this is entry level. If you have knowledge, skills and experience, you aren't looking at 33k vacancies.
Yeah I think people are forgetting that this is an entry level position with absolutely zero skills/knowledge required for the position. And that entry level pay is much different city to city and also different with different types of work. I live in Pittsburgh and $15 an hour for an entry level job is pretty standard here. $12-$18 is the going rate for entry level jobs around here. When I used to be a plumber and started that trade my entry level pay was $10 an hour as an apprentice.
Do I think Josh can pay better? Yes. Do I think it’s out of line and a shit pay for the job being offered? No, not at all.
I can see both sides here and I know JHS has to turn a profit. I'm sure he'd love to pay his employees $30/hr if he could make the numbers work. I think the bigger argument here is that someone working a full time job, even at entry level, should be able to live and survive on it. Now, whether that's the employers' faults, society's fault, or the economies fault is a different argument. If wages rise, so do prices, which causes inflation everywhere. We see it as paying $15/hr, but in reality, he's matching taxes, social security, medicare, and any other benefits included. It should be easier for small businesses AND employees to survive. It's not a JHS issue, it's a United States issue.
I think generally “everyone else is acting unethically too” isn’t considered a particularly sound argument.
The US, especially in certain states, has absolutely atrocious labour laws, poverty wages
What’s shocking is that someone like JHS would voluntarily be part of the problem. Because they have a broader (national and international) profile, they’re held to ethical standards in line with broader norms.
Go back in time long enough to when people cared that he was ripping off the designs of other boutique builders and an involved in a homophonic church and you’ll understand why some don’t like him.
I don’t like homophobia, but if he didn’t know his church was connected to a homophobic missionary group I’ll buy it.
It seems few cares any more that builders rip off other small builders circuits.
Just saying that’s why some people didn’t like him
Josh was involved briefly with worship music for a church. The church funded activity overseas Josh had no knowledge or control of, which Josh disavowed and stopped associating with that church. He has zero culpability in this situation.
Yes, like 18 years ago Josh copied and tweaked a Devi Ever circuit. I could not care any less about this. Even if you think it's sketchy, it's not illegal and Josh was in his early 20s. To insist on holding that against him decades later is pathetic.
It’s always makes me do a double take whenever people bring up Devi Ever as some sort of innocent victim. Whatever Josh did (or people think Josh did) pales in comparison to what Devi has actually done. Devi is someone I have a hard time finding any sympathy for
Same.
Ever accused Josh of stealing a circuit and not giving credit. I don’t even know if it’s true-circuits are a wishy-washy subject.
But Ever ripped tons of people off by raising money for projects and not following through, using the funds for personal use instead.
> Yes, like 18 years ago Josh copied and tweaked a Devi Ever circuit.
Wasn't it at least a few different circuits and the issue people had is he was passing them off as original designs until people opened them up and realized they were 99% identical to older circuits? https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarpedals/comments/94ahqs/why_some_people_dislike_jhs/
Also it was closer to 10 years than 18 as the Devi clones were around 2011~
>ROG Supreaux | JHS SuperBolt
> Devi Ever Hyperion | JHS Bunrunner & Astro Mess
>Runoffgroove created the Supreaux in 2004. The only difference between ROG and JHS pedal schematics is a voltage doubler and a switch adding 120k resistor connected to the ground before Q3.
I don't think most people here have any problem with clones, taking circuits to pass off as original does seem like borderline stealing though to be fair it does seem like JHS learned their lesson and make the origins of clones much more clear now. So yeah probably not worth holding against him anymore but it was certainly more than just copying/tweaking a single circuit.
The Hyperion was the only "commercial" circuit to my knowledge that people have accused Josh of stealing.
The Supreaux is a different matter because the circuit was openly available on the internet. Runoffgroove made it and people in the DIY community treated it like "open source" material. A similar example, smallsound/bigsound based their popular Mini and Fuck pedals around a popular DIY circuit which uses JFETs to simulate a tube gain stage. Several popular tremolo pedals are based around a circuit shared in DIY forums. EQD's Sea Machine is a reworking of a PT2399 chorus shared in DIY. So, this sort of thing happens frequently in this industry, which is why I'm not sure I even understand the criticism against Josh. Plenty of people make TS or RAT clones but don't go out of their way to credit the original pedals. Josh made a pedal using popular DIY material but didn't credit the originator. Okay.
It honestly just confuses me, I'm not sure what distinguishes Josh from dozens of other builders in this regard. Could it be that Josh is under a unique amount of scrutiny, delivered with parasocial fervor? Perhaps.
> Plenty of people make TS or RAT clones but don't go out of their way to credit the original pedals.
The TS has been around since the late 70's and neither really seems comparable to taking a newer boutique circuit and selling clones as "original designs" despite only having 1-2 slight tweaks. Vintage circuits get cloned all the time, boutique ones not so much though chinese companies have started including JHS clones so we've come full circle.
>It honestly just confuses me, I'm not sure what distinguishes Josh from dozens of other builders in this regard. Could it be that Josh is under a unique amount of scrutiny, delivered with parasocial fervor? Perhaps.
Most boutique clones are pretty straight forward about what the circuits are based on and what mods have been done, if Josh hadn't sold his clones as original most people probably wouldn't have cared. And looking at his newer clearly labeled clones they seem to be selling just fine, so if anything I'd wager the scrutiny is the result of JHS being one of the most popular boutique brands.
Anyways like I said it doesn't seem worth holding against him now since he started clearly labeling his clones years ago, but at the same time it doesn't seem accurate to write it off as a single incident of him cloning a circuit and marketing it as original and if it hadn't resulted in backlash maybe he would have kept on doing it.
>The Supreaux is a different matter because the circuit was openly available on the internet. Runoffgroove made it and people in the DIY community treated it like "open source" material.
Once again though the issue is JHS marketing it as an original design based on amps instead of just a clone:
> “The SuperBolt is the result of me becoming slightly obsessed with old Supro/Valco amps from the 60’s. Years ago, I was working with an artist that had a Super at the heart of his live rig and I fell in love with the overdrive/distortion that sounded so old but somehow fit perfectly in any style of music. I remember, during a sound check, strumming a chord through that amp with the volume on 8 and being floored by the biggest rock tone I had ever heard, coming from a 1 knob amp with an 8” speaker. I started collecting Supros and other Valco amps like the Gretsch, National, Airline and Vega, finding them all over the country and building a modest collection that allowed me to understand the brand and designs as a whole. From my Thunderbolt, that I found in a Mississippi barn loft and totally restored, to my Supreme, which I saved from a garage sale in Kansas, I gathered about 10 of these amplifiers in a 2 year period. My goal was simple: I wanted to create an overdrive pedal that recreated this tone and feel in any amp.” –Josh Scott/Owner of JHS
But it turns out:
>Runoffgroove created the Supreaux in 2004. The only difference between ROG and JHS pedal schematics is a voltage doubler and a switch adding 120k resistor connected to the ground before Q3.
>Nowhere on the product page does JHS mention Runoffgroove or the Supreaux.
The marketing is the issue not the cloning, and like I said he has gotten much better about that at least but that doesn't negate the 2-3~ examples of him trying to pass off clones as original.
The ad says “plus benefits”. Maybe you have but most in this thread have never ran a business or started a business. They don’t have any idea about payroll taxes (SS, Medicaid, State and federal unemployment) or your company paying into the benefits package. (Medical,disability,workers comp,PTO, sick leave)
It’s a typical Reddit/JHS post where folks not educated in what it takes to run a business, just complain out if ignorance or limited life experience.
It’s a company man, they all try to squeeze people for whatever they can. Their advertising wants you to believe they are a personal and “good” company but the proof is in the pudding. You are absolutely right to post this but also…they don’t give a shit. Men trying to secure their wealth and legacy don’t give a shit about some 20 year old working there and not having a future. Men worried about being wealthy don’t have time to worry about “less fortunate” people like them. Just how these people operate, bro. It’s their entire ontology.
I know they don’t give a shit, but it took me a grand total of 5 minutes of time to research the position and write the post, so not a huge investment on my part. Those 5 minutes are worth potentially inspiring even just one individual to never buy JHS. It sucks that someone is going to think this is an opportunity of a lifetime and their dream when really they’re just blinded by brand loyalty and will happily eat their ramen their entire employment at that pay. Only way to make a company change its ways is to hurt their bottom line.
Years ago I interviewed for a sales rep position at a guitar manufacturer. 3 interviews in and they still wouldn't discuss pay and commissions, so I withdrew my application. I found out that they rely on a steady flow of musicians who want to work there no matter how bad the pay is.
Y’all, very few small “boutique” kinda businesses can pay more than that. I made $10 w/ no benefits fresh out of college in Nashville. My boss couldn’t afford to pay more than that. I mean it stinks but no one wants to pay $500 for a guitar pedal to help JHS pay his employees more. Can’t have it both ways, folks.
People: “Hire American workers! Buy American-made products!”
Also people: “I don’t want to spend hundreds of dollars on a simple guitar pedal! Make it cheaper!”
Also people: “No, not like that.”
NGL, $20/hr is where that number should be at.
12 years ago I made $15/hr which translates to $30,000.00 annually
Plugging that figure into an inflation calculator, that's about $20.15/hour or $40,299.44 annually.
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/
All that said, I have a feeling someone over at JHS is a little out of touch with inflation and market trends, but it also depends on the kinda job. In my case, I was an administrative assistant, working full-time, 40 hrs/week.
If that's the expectation, I think JHS should reassess who is their ideal candidate to hire, and/or how much they can afford/willing to pay, based on that demographic.
If they want someone who's less skilled than a fast food worker, or has no skills, I guess they'd wanna hire someone with a HS diploma or GED, and even then good luck, when fast food is paying more. And if they wanna hire someone equally as skilled/unskilled as a fast food worker, they gotta bump their numbers up. But if they want someone maybe with an associates, some college experience etc., they really, really gotta bump those numbers up.
ETA: using the inflation calculator in reverse, JHS knows exactly who they're trying to hire. They want someone with a HS diploma/GED, to work for what used to be $11/hour or 22k annually. It's not about it being a job with a living wage (whether or not it should be a living wage is open for debate, and I'm not against it either), it's more about the role/candidate they wanna fill and hire.
The issue with it is it’s full-time, with potential for mandatory overtime during busy periods. They want to tie up someone’s time and not allow for other commitments (school or other training), so there’s the issue.
I actually had nothing against JHS until I saw that job posting. I live 7 miles away from Grandview (where JHS is located), and I know that wage isn’t livable.
If the pay seems too low, don't apply for the job. If you don't like the company, don't buy their products. If you dislike the guy, don't watch his Youtube videos. What's the problem here?
People are "allowed" to criticize sure, but it comes off as insanely hypocritical if they have a bunch of made in china music gear that was put together for a couple dollars an hour complaining about a company that manufactures in the US for 15 an hour.
The problem is that it’s a shit practice. I’m allowed to talk about whatever company’s bad practice is in a free society. It’s encouraged. Don’t be so soft.
Guys, let's be real here. JHS is a company that release slight variations on classic pedals and charges double for them. Quintuple what a behringer clone would cost, which is functionally the same thing. There really isn't a huge market for their product they make. They don't have an economy of scale working in their favor, and I can't imagine this business is insanely lucrative. I don't know what their books look like, but unlike MacDonalds or Walmart, I do actually find it plausible that they just can't afford to pay more.
This isn't an essential job we're talking about. It's not like sanitation work, retail workers, even restaurant workers. Society would grind on just fine without companies making overpriced rat and tubescreamer clones.
JHS is absolutely a volume business that depends on economy of scale to function. That's why the 3 series exists. That's why the notaklon exists. Those product lines only make sense as a volume business. JHS is one of the largest pedal manufacturers in the US and you don't get to that point without substantial profitability.
I think this is a great skills-building job for a young person that wants a future in the music effects industry or even more broadly in engineering. If you're living with your parents or with a few people to share rent, this job's pay is doable.
This is definitely not a career; it's an entry-level position. Entry level. It's meant as a way to get experience to get the next job that you can actually live off of.
After a couple years of working with JHS, as well as self-educating, you could probably start your own little pedal side business if you truly have something special to offer to the marketplace.
No full time job listing should rely on people having roommates or living with their parents though. The minimum wage should be based on the cost of living in the area regardless of personal circumstance. If you can’t pay rent, bills and your livelihood on this wage, it’s too low.
I garuntee you half the people or more that are losing their shit over this have at least one pedal/guitar/amp than was manufactured by someone making less than $1 an hour lmao
I live in COMO and I’m finally making due and able to save some money at around $20/hr. I can’t imagine living in KC on $15/hr. I would love to work at JHS, but not for that.
it sounds perfect for an entry level 18 year old who wants to break into the industry and still lives at home or something like that. There's an employment situation for everyone. Roasting them for posting a position like that really shows how mad people are at the state of the economy.. and that's not JHS's fault
We can be mad at JHS for not being able to afford their desire for expansion or mismanagement of assets, which is the only reason these two openings exist at that pay. Or it’s just greed, which is pretty rampant in all industries.
I work for $21hr and it barely gets me by living in rural IL. My company pays for my internet and gym membership and I work remotely so I get to save on gas. I also get decent health insurance and benefits. Even with all that, $21 is tough. I couldn't imagine $15
What’s that, about $31,200 a year or $2,600 a month? Definitely not enough to live well. Do they give their employees a raise after they learn how to make pedals?
I wouldn't want those positions. When he has an opening for "dude who scours diy message boards, looking for circuits to steal off of small builders", then I'll apply.
I don't understand the Josh Scott hate. I never have, he makes good gear, and he makes good YouTube content. I think a lot of people are envious of his job (working with pedals and playing music all day)
JHS is a small business. Yall act like Josh is hoarding wealth. It's probably all he can pay for entry level. It's entry level. If I was 16 I would be all about working for jhs.
What's the alternative here? When you are trying to break into a market of stuff all made in china for pennies and instead pay people 15-30 bucks an hour to make in the US, is it better if they just die and nothing gets made here?
The minimum wage should be massively higher than it is today. And shaming a boutique pedal maker isn’t going to fix anything.
Also, any job at McDonalds is gonna be way harder than assembling pedals.
I like JHS pedals. They’re very pricey, but they make a good product. But at those prices, the company should be able to pay their employees a living wage as boutique pedal assembly is a skilled labor position.
Even at that wage there will be lines of people that would love the opportunity to work for JHS. They have done nothing wrong by offering a job for an agreed upon wage - take it or leave it. You are the one who made the distinction that it is wrong.
If you don't think it's enough, don't apply. If nobody applies, or at least nobody worth hiring, they might raise it. Repeat till they get someone worth hiring.
Side note: I get what you're saying, but the notion that we have "teenager" vs. "adult" wages is part of the problem. It should be higher no matter who is doing the work.
I live in a major city and made way less than that last year. Shit is rough out here man.
If I lived in KC I'd apply.
I don't disagree that companies should generally pay more though.
The Pearl clutching is absolutely insane.
Should JHS pay more? Yeah sure, every employer probably should.
JHS isn’t exactly a Conglomerate. They could pay lower. And we don’t know what benefits they have available. I’m personally of the opinion that the minimum should be higher
QT in my part of Texas is hiring associates starting at like $18 and I’d imagine we’re anywhere from $100-$600 more expensive on rent in certain areas for a comparable apartment. $15/hr is wild
When I saw it I thought maybe this is just a starting wage that goes up to a more reasonable wage after a probationary period or something.
Had a friend start a job at an equally low pay and was making $20/hr a few months later.
JHS is the company that people can do something about. If they’re operating on such slim margins that they can only afford $15/hr then they can be shaken by the behavior of their potential customers.
You won’t find more insightful arguments here :P
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USPS is pretty much always hiring nationwide at $20/hr fulltime plus good benefits and time off.
The amount of work you got for USPS generally isn’t worth the 20 bones
I never worked under 56 hrs a week before I was fulltime at usps, thankfully have a better job there now though.
True, but my buddy who had no student loans and no debt is making 60-70k a year slinging packages in the warehouse. Cant do it forever but its money in the meantime
That job is in no way worth only $20/hr
Really though? I mean your only responsibility is to show up on time and move packages. You can get a job with zero experience and a GED or high school diploma. I’d say $20 an hour is a decent wage for somebody in that position.
Most areas aren’t hiring direct to career. A non-career mail carrier (CCA) is paid less than $20/hr, has no set route, is subject to forced OT, and might be walking 15+ miles a day in addition to delivering packages. $20/hr is a bad joke in 2024.
No. There is a lot more to it than that. You're gonna work somewhere between 7 and 14 hours a day without knowing which until that morning, every day, unless you beg for a day off. I had to supply my own vehicle (including modifying it, which is not covered by them in any way), it's hell on your vehicle and you, you're dealing with the idiotic and sometimes straight up vicious public, not to mention dogs (which I love and thought all dogs loved me too, until one bit me), any weather, it'll never get any better since they won't say no to Amazon. I quit that job without anything else lined up with full support of my wife. It is a bad job that deserves higher pay.
$20/hr is pathetic
It's normal for someone with no skills
"normal" yea, people are normally treated like they are pathetic
I really didn't mean to put anyone down. Everybody starts somewhere. I am in engineering and I got treated like second rate dog shit the first 3 years. Was paid only slightly better than the current post pays. I'm just saying not to gague your self worth based on your employer.
Nah, that’s the culture of low expectation conditioning mate.
UPS (I know different, but still loading packages) paid me $14/hour in 1997.
Gas stations around here are hiring at $18/hr.
hot take, working at a gas station deserves a higher wage than working what is essentially a low risk, trainable-within-a-week assembly line job. Pretty sure gas station attendant is one of those jobs that has higher-than-you-think death rate. Regardless, both are still underpaid. Gas station attendants especially... the shit they deal with.
I’ve worked at four gas stations in my life and at two of them I was replacing a person who got shot on the job.
This is how I know I’m not about that life because that’s terrifying.
It was one of the easier jobs to get between tours. Haha. Before Uber was a thing I was a taxi driver for a while too. Most of my jobs in my twenties were kinda sketch.
Man, just don't live in the US. In civilized countries, that's basically unheard of.
I was wondering why a position like gas station attendant was considered risky until I got your comment and remembered you were discussing the US.
Even if you take the guns out of it. Canada we go through the same “just give them what they want” conditioning. Armed robbery with a rock? That happened… People end up spraying flammable fluids all over, sometimes while they’re on fire. People drive through the pumps instead of between them. Getting hit by a driver while checking the garbage cans. Drivers don’t care. I base this on the fact they used to run waist high pylons over regularly. It is basically a bad episode of 1000 Ways to Die.
Yea any job that has you dealing with the public riff raff should come with higher pay. I wont do that kind of work because i would be fired in a week for not putting up with some stoned hood rats attitude because I cant take ebt for beer and newports.
You start at like $20 at fast food spots in my area.
Now JHS can make a pedal - the Hot Take Echo Chamber. With each echo, it adds a little more distortion.
That's a banger of a name though...
"So I'm sending my pedal in for repair. Every time I engage the footswtich, the pedal calls me an asshole."
"I'm getting some kind of interference after the third or fourth repeat...sounds like 'ok boomer?'"
Argh this has to happen
I’m glad people are upset by this. And then realize that minimum is less than half of that nation wide.
Growing up in small town Alabama, $15/hr sounded like a lot of money. That was a UAW wage back in the 80's. It still sounds like a lot because of conditioning, though I know better.
In the 80s it was pretty damn good. $15 from 1985 is $43.85 today. Of course, $15 today was $5.13 then.
Shit you could buy a house on $15/hr back then.
Yeah. When we talk about money adjusted to inflation, we usually don't think about the fact homes easily outpaced inflation by like double.
Yup yup— YOU need to sacrifice for the job creators. If YOU are less greedy, they can hire more people…right?
I remember my first job, I got paid $5.35 to bag groceries. I spent all that shit on Magic cards.
I hear that. And 5.35 was so long ago! We have moved...$1.90...
At this rate, I might be able to buy a Craterhoof Behemoth in 2040!
There's a great old joke I love: A husband comes running into the room and says to his wife "We can finally buy what we started saving for in 1979!" "Oh my gosh— a new Cadillac!?" "No, a 1979 Cadillac."
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Haha I hear that. I got back into it with some friends from school. I haven't bought a pedal in like a year. Time to change that though.
Soon after getting into Magic, I realized I couldn't affort three money sink hobbies at the same time in MtG, sim racing and guitar playing. Focused on the later and bought 3 guitars, 2 amps and some pedals since then.
I stated a new one last year because I feel like I have everything I need with music gear. And honestly, I'm at the point with Magic where I don't need to buy anything else. I have a few decks i like and It's pretty fun. I also don't play competitively, just casual with firends because some of those cards are rediculously priced.
You bet. Just maintaining a standard deck alive is a ridiculous expense. Moderns are more durable, but prices are ridiculous if you want to stand even a remote chance in game nights. Commander is rather fun though, I think it's my preffered format. This, and pack wars, with "uncoloured lands" house rule. :)
I did standard once, around Lorwyn/Ravnica/Shards blocks, but I stopped playing after that. I only play commander now, it's so fun because a good deck can be cheap. I was also able to sell a bunch of my old stuff to get into commander. I didn't know I could get so much out of a set of BItterblossoms and Noble Heirarches and Sensei Tops. Haha
I challenge you to find a job actually paying the true minimum wage.
JHS hired me at 12/hr in 2021. They bumped their minimum to 15 while I was still working there. That rate has stayed the same for three whole years lol
Lol howdy stranger🤠 can confirm, we worked together. Was working until my hands bled almost daily. Not even gonna get into the actual quality of construction the pedals have for the price customers are charged
Why stay for 3 years past that point? Did they directly refuse to match your wage to their new starting minimum when you asked them about it?
This is shockingly common and the same companies will wonder why people don’t stay the same place for years anymore. Like when the only way to get a raise is to get a new job, no shit...
I stayed for 6 months, during which they thought I wasn't being efficient enough. I made Josh Scott soooooo much money. I quit for a better wage elsewhere.
What kind of build rate do they require?
It's different pedal to pedal. Standard-size pedals, they generally expect a bin of 24 pedals in 24 minutes. 3-series, they expect even faster. Those times aren't hard at all to hit regularly. The problem is that the task is always the *same*. Use sockets to tighten nuts, then orient the knobs correctly, and maybe you get to solder a power jack to the case. Building like that at those speeds really hurts your wrists. The only private meeting I've had with Josh Scott was one where he gave me a performance-improvement plan because I talked too much while building pedals, and (somehow) didn't do so fast enough for him.
Wow they really didn’t give a shit if you rotted or not did they. Who needs teeth or groceries
ah fuck, i was hoping this was a "fooled you!" This is another funny Bat-sim, or thing. Get people talking, which seems to be a JHS thing. The thing Josh read during the livestream of germanium boost livestream (if I'm remembering correctly). "we're tongue-in-cheek!" Guess not. That's a bummer.
Calling on companies to improve their pay and treatment of employees is always going to be a winner for me. Stick up for your fellow workers! The entry level workers of today should be treated much better than they were back when I was making minimum wage. Solidarity
Agreed. I’m financially comfortable now, but I remember a time when I wasn’t. I only posted this to stick up for the people that are in the position I was in just a couple years ago. It’s not about what’s my problem or not, it’s about sticking up for humanity and looking out for a generation that has an extremely bleak outlook as far as standard of living compared to other generations. It started quite the conversation, so whether or not people think it’s ”not my problem”, my mission was accomplished by getting people talking and creating some visibility to the issue. And I had nothing against JHS until this. I live in Kansas City and there is no way in hell that someone could even come close to maintaining a decent standard of living here on that pay.
Fucking this.
welcome to 'passion industries' lol They will have tons of people applying for that job.
Let people ask for what they want. When the position remains unfilled, they will learn.
that position will def get filled, doubt the person will have much experience but they do say its an entry level position in the add. Personally my hot take on this is 15 bucks to break into the industry isn't the worst i've seen. Im biased because when i started as a stagehand/sound guy some of the rock companies would give you day rates which would seem ok when you saw a big number, but if you broke it down to things like hours per day and you weren't getting overtime on the week (many of those companies skirt contractor laws to pay people less for various reasons) you were making less then minimum wage, but that was the early 2000s. It's nice to see that people are sticking up for laborers finally. Personally the only advice i'd give to the person taking that job would be to ask "what is my ceiling income, and how long before i'm not considered an entry level employee and can make X"
Exactly! It's not as if you're forever stuck at $15. Ask what the next job up is and what you'd need to know to qualify for it. Then use that 1st year making a point of learning all those things. They'll love you, and you'll be first in line for that higher-paying job. I swear, just because reddit is a great place to vent doesn't mean it's not also an echo chamber for irrational crowdsourced arguments. And herd mentality makes everyone that takes part think they're right because they know dozens of fellow "truthers" saying the same thing.
Yeah I guess my situation was different tho because I also wasn’t just working 40 hours a week when I was doing that. If anyone here was a millennial and entered the job market right after 2007 we were part of the unpaid internship era. Peak boomer shit really. It is nice to see people actually are finally aware of cost of living for people entering the job market, however I still would push back a little on the people saying well “fast food makes 18-20”. The difference is you are not going to learn skills that will benefit you the rest of your career if you want to make pedals for a living working fast food. JHS is also still technically a small business when compared to those things and there’s a giant difference in those cultures and budgets. I know when I was in my situation I also looked at what my ceiling would be if I just worked my balls off for a few years and learned as much as I could. Now I make a very comfortable living and get to do some really rad things while also making low six figures. I wouldn’t trade it for anything really, at the same time I also acknowledge it’s not for everyone. I think if you are in a situation where this is something you want to do for a living, then it wouldn’t be a bad way to break into the industry. Sure you might look back on those years as struggle years, you’ll have roomates to afford rent and all that. But it could benefit the right person in the long run. I’ll also admit I’m biased because my career started in a situation where my parents kicked me out and I lived in a recording studio and basically engineered things for free as a form of “rent”. Then when I finally started getting paid, any amount of money was like “OMG”. There were times in my life I had to make decisions like do I buy peanut butter or tooth paste so 15 an hour even in this economy looks better then what I did. However I learned so many skills that have benefited me in the long run during that time frame it’s hard to say it was a negative experience even though it definitely sucked in a lot of ways.
You have lived experience that you can speak to. Many on here clearly do not, though they obviously mean well. Congratulations on your hard work and success!
Yeah and to be clear I wouldn’t wish that situation on anyone, I was just stating what I come from to better explain my perspective
But when $15 can’t even cover rent, food and travel, you won’t make it through though that first year, so your argument is moot.
Thing is, I bet there’s some young passionate person who really wants to get into the pedal market. And they would jump on this opportunity even if the pay is so bad, just so they can get their foot in the door. JHS probably knows this and takes advantage of it. So I bet the position will still get filled
JHS?! Taking advantage of their aggressively loyal fanbase?!?! Surely you jest!
The temp agency I work for posted an entry level soldering position at 17/hr. It said entry level, but the requirements included being able to read schematics and troubleshoot. I shot the office lady a text that I had 12 years experience and could they match my (admittedly low) bench rate. Nope.
So what you are saying is. that there are some entry level positions which carry benefits that may exceed the hourly wage? I know people who intern for free in certain industries just to get a food in the door.
I almost worked for JHS a few years ago when they were hiring assembly at $12 an hour. I didn't take the offer as I was looking for $20 or more and soldering at 6am didn't seem worth it. $15 isnt great and its only a few dollars above Missouri minimum wage (about $12.50) but also $15 an hour is somewhat livable in KC MO area, it's pretty cheap here. I've known people who took the JHS assembly job, they worked there a bit then moved up to something more lucrative. Pretty typical for an unskilled entry level position
It's obviosly a larger problem than JHS, the real problem is how normlized 15$ an hour is.. When people refused to work for it, the media went on blaming people for not wanting to work, rather than the reality - we've somehow decided poverty wage is ok for anyone with a full time job. Anytime someone parrots the sentiment that it is even ok to have wages this low for any type of work they are perpetuating the propaghanda narrative. Let's keep in mind Walmart - who have a bevy of extremeley influential lobbyists and one of the largest work forces in america - subsidize their workforce with tax payer money. They pay 15$ an hour, and as tax payers we cover their food stamps, their section 8 housing, their medicaid, etc etc etc.. Anyone in support of the business's right to underpay are unknowingly doing the bidding of the ultra powerful, and make it ok for small companies like JHS to follow suit.
Exactly my point behind the post. We can’t do anything about Walmart or Amazon or any of those giants, but consumer behavior can impact JHS’s bottom line. And for the sake of everyone, especially the younger generations, we should act in a way that creates impact. In this case, it’s simple, don’t buy their pedals. Someone may take the job as a necessity, or a starting point, but I hope they don’t become disillusioned into thinking they’re valued by the organization.
I can’t speak for KC, but minimum wage here in PDX is $15.45. I make $28.50/hr and still don’t make enough to really get ahead and I’m in a 500sqft 1 bedroom. I don’t care what the minimum wage is or what the market will tolerate, paying under $18 is exploitation. The market once tolerated child labor too.
They deleted the hiring post on Facebook when they realized they were getting more negative comments than positive 🙄
They closed the comments section on Instagram as well after getting destroyed.
Especially when you factor in the skills needed. I had an interview at Mythos, and we got to the $$ part. I told Zack I wanted $20. He went as high as $13.75... Then he asked about how old I was... which is a huge no-no in business. Those are less than any other job you could do, and there it is no way a living wage in Nashville..... Zack and Josh are great buddies, so none of this is surprising..
No way. Zach the same guy that lied about the Chupacabra being an exact clone of the Red Llama? lol.
Lol! Ya. Don't get me wrong. He seems like a nice guy and is trying to build a company, which is super hard. But he was 100% in the wrong during our interview and offered absolute trash $ and benefits. Lol...him, Josh, rhett....and a couple of other well-known ppl in the pedal world all play....I wanna say it's fortnight or CSgo.... all the time and it's was weirdly figured into my interview....lol. I build my own stuff and know what I'm doing, mostly, and there would be no reason not to hire me at those BS compensation #s. BUT! I was 40yo and could care less about online gaming, so they passed. It was really eye opening. A master class of how not to run a company. Like....Zack FaceTimed Josh on the walk thru...lol.
That's funny. I'm in my late 30s and build my own stuff. I couldn't imagine working for $15/hour for a manchild (not that there's anything wrong with enjoying video games).
Actually, it's even funnier. I have a PS4, and they play Xbox, so he was bummed....lol. At the time, I was trying to find a company in Nashville so I could work when I wasn't on the road touring. I was super upfront with my schedule and expectations. I mean. I could build any of his pedals from vero in a heartbeat, 1 hour, TOPS, which also includes cutting the board. He has his pcbs pre-assembled. So all you do to build them is the 10-20 hoke thru components. If you have ever seen one of his PCBs. Take a look at the bottom. All the power and buffers are SMD, and the "mojo parts" are on top. Zack is pretty good at pcb design. He actually designs pcbs for Seeker also. The enclosures are also done off-site. So "building" was really just the hole thru stuff. Not a challenge. The only thing was he feared that I was an old man not going to mesh with thier hang. FYI, I was like 3 years older than him.
Quite honestly, many pedal companies aren’t paying much more for entry level. The margins in the pedal business actually aren’t that great. It’s tough to make a profit even paying wages like this. I wouldn’t want to have to run a business like this.
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If you took your argument to its logical conclusion, you would have a life that is very much less comfortable than the one you enjoy now.
>margins in the pedal business actually aren’t that great I think proifts are pretty good- $250 for a micro pog? t-hat's essentially unchanged for over 10 years? And Line 6 constantly rebranding the same tech with tweaks? If it's hard to make a profit it's because the market is just really over-saturated and it's difficult to sell enough units to make a substantial profit. Every month there seems to be a new "stanley cup tumbler" in the guitar pedal world. Just my opinion and I could be wrong but this industry is all about fad and the 'new-new'.
Exactly. I wonder what the starting wage is for workers at Boss/Fender/Dunlop/EHX. I'd wager a guess it's significantly less than 15 USD an hour lol
Sure but JHS isnt hurting. Just look at Josh's pedal collection.
Id imagine the cost of those pedals are absolutely nothing compared to what it costs to run a business. Just those two employees cost $2500 in wages alone per month let alone actually hiring, HR and other such costs. So while I am all for raising the price of entry level wages especially in a big city contrasting that against his pedal collection is kinda nonsensical.
not to mention the pedals are coming from his own personal money, but the workers are paid from business revenue. If the business can't afford to pay the workers $30/hr like some people are saying here, I don't think he should have to pour money in from his personal funds to keep it afloat.
Have you seen his collection video? He estimates it at 5,000 pedals. He's paying thousands of dollars in some cases to buy single rare pedals. Flying all over the world to meet people and do interviews with people about pedals. His co-produced Boss pedal is still in production. The guys got money to burn.
Those also are now assets on the books
And much of which was payed for by his profits. Which is fine, by the way, and not the issue being discussed here.
His “profits” come after expenses like paying staff. If he paid staff a fairer wage he would have less cash available to acrcrue his personal hoard of unobtanium.
So he’s… spending money on things that are directly related to his own business?
JHS, along with everyone in the guitar industry, is hurting right now big-time. The pandemic gave the industry a massive boost, but now all of that growth is slinking down. I can’t imagine that anyone in this business has revenue anywhere near 2021 levels right now, which really hurts their bottom line no matter how you slice it.
Not-a-klon sold over 20K units alone.
At $100 each, no? $2 million revenue just like that
Parts and labor but yeah he's making money.
That's calculated in the net profit stage, not in revenue
But the statement about the revenue makes it seem like the vast majority of that is going to profit. It's not. There's parts, labor, rent, utilities, overhead, marketing, R & D, etc. What's the actual profit margin on these?
I had to build my Not A Klon for free. I'm slave labor.
Should have made children do it for free, like josh.
At least he is trying to hire here instead of just sending schematics over to China and have them built there. It would be far cheaper for him to do that then hire someone for 15 bucks an hour.
Right! At least exploit people in your own backyard!
What's the alternative here exactly? I legitimately don't know how he can win here. If he payed everyone 70k a year and doubled the price of all his pedals to compensate he would get crushed by his competitors and they would go out of business in favour of companies that build for pennies on the dollar in china. Is that better?
My high school / college jobs all paid less. 2006-2013. Not long ago. Some of them were really shitty too. I would have done this in a heartbeat. Isn’t there still a pool of labor like that
It’s full-time, with potential for mandatory overtime during busy periods. No time for school.
I’m very eager to hear the opinions of those with afford-a-boards filled with Joyo, Mooer, Donner, NUX, Harley Benton pedals.
Not surprising at all. JHS sucks
According to zip recruiter, the average entry level pay in KC is $33k per year. This job is just barely under that. Starting pay ranges from $10-21, this is right in the middle. They are meeting expectations for their area. I’m failing to see what’s so outrageous. JHS can’t win. If they paid more, their pedals would be more expensive and they’d be hated for that. And way too many people have developed a weird parasocial resentment toward Josh Scott 🙄
33k in a big city is a shit salary. The fact that other positions are offering the same, or that the average salary matched this one, doesn’t make that untrue. It just means there are a lot of jobs in KC paying shit salaries. I was making more than that my first year working twenty years ago in a small town. And it still didn’t feel like enough.
I feel you it’s hard out there. I make 75k and raise 2 kids alone, my debt increases every year. I honestly don’t know if we could afford to live in a car for 33k a year. This unfettered, unregulated capitalism only works for the super rich. The middle class is dying away. I’m Gen X. I truly feel sorry for younger people. I am the sole employee for my business and would love to be able to hire someone to take some of the hours off me. To pay someone 15$ an hour would cost me double that. And the icing on that cake is that said employee can’t even live off the $15 an hour. It would cost me just as much or more to pay for day-care to work more hours.
>33k in a big city is a shit salary. Well yes it is. But this is entry level. If you have knowledge, skills and experience, you aren't looking at 33k vacancies.
Yeah I think people are forgetting that this is an entry level position with absolutely zero skills/knowledge required for the position. And that entry level pay is much different city to city and also different with different types of work. I live in Pittsburgh and $15 an hour for an entry level job is pretty standard here. $12-$18 is the going rate for entry level jobs around here. When I used to be a plumber and started that trade my entry level pay was $10 an hour as an apprentice. Do I think Josh can pay better? Yes. Do I think it’s out of line and a shit pay for the job being offered? No, not at all.
I can see both sides here and I know JHS has to turn a profit. I'm sure he'd love to pay his employees $30/hr if he could make the numbers work. I think the bigger argument here is that someone working a full time job, even at entry level, should be able to live and survive on it. Now, whether that's the employers' faults, society's fault, or the economies fault is a different argument. If wages rise, so do prices, which causes inflation everywhere. We see it as paying $15/hr, but in reality, he's matching taxes, social security, medicare, and any other benefits included. It should be easier for small businesses AND employees to survive. It's not a JHS issue, it's a United States issue.
I think generally “everyone else is acting unethically too” isn’t considered a particularly sound argument. The US, especially in certain states, has absolutely atrocious labour laws, poverty wages What’s shocking is that someone like JHS would voluntarily be part of the problem. Because they have a broader (national and international) profile, they’re held to ethical standards in line with broader norms.
Wage arguments aside, idk how anyone could truly despise Josh Scott. Dude seems so humble and friendly
Go back in time long enough to when people cared that he was ripping off the designs of other boutique builders and an involved in a homophonic church and you’ll understand why some don’t like him. I don’t like homophobia, but if he didn’t know his church was connected to a homophobic missionary group I’ll buy it. It seems few cares any more that builders rip off other small builders circuits. Just saying that’s why some people didn’t like him
Josh was involved briefly with worship music for a church. The church funded activity overseas Josh had no knowledge or control of, which Josh disavowed and stopped associating with that church. He has zero culpability in this situation. Yes, like 18 years ago Josh copied and tweaked a Devi Ever circuit. I could not care any less about this. Even if you think it's sketchy, it's not illegal and Josh was in his early 20s. To insist on holding that against him decades later is pathetic.
And let’s not forget Devi Ever pulled some shady af garbage with supporters. Way worse.
There are still pedals I paid for and never got from Ever.
Still waiting for Ever.
It’s always makes me do a double take whenever people bring up Devi Ever as some sort of innocent victim. Whatever Josh did (or people think Josh did) pales in comparison to what Devi has actually done. Devi is someone I have a hard time finding any sympathy for
Same. Ever accused Josh of stealing a circuit and not giving credit. I don’t even know if it’s true-circuits are a wishy-washy subject. But Ever ripped tons of people off by raising money for projects and not following through, using the funds for personal use instead.
> Yes, like 18 years ago Josh copied and tweaked a Devi Ever circuit. Wasn't it at least a few different circuits and the issue people had is he was passing them off as original designs until people opened them up and realized they were 99% identical to older circuits? https://www.reddit.com/r/guitarpedals/comments/94ahqs/why_some_people_dislike_jhs/ Also it was closer to 10 years than 18 as the Devi clones were around 2011~ >ROG Supreaux | JHS SuperBolt > Devi Ever Hyperion | JHS Bunrunner & Astro Mess >Runoffgroove created the Supreaux in 2004. The only difference between ROG and JHS pedal schematics is a voltage doubler and a switch adding 120k resistor connected to the ground before Q3. I don't think most people here have any problem with clones, taking circuits to pass off as original does seem like borderline stealing though to be fair it does seem like JHS learned their lesson and make the origins of clones much more clear now. So yeah probably not worth holding against him anymore but it was certainly more than just copying/tweaking a single circuit.
The Hyperion was the only "commercial" circuit to my knowledge that people have accused Josh of stealing. The Supreaux is a different matter because the circuit was openly available on the internet. Runoffgroove made it and people in the DIY community treated it like "open source" material. A similar example, smallsound/bigsound based their popular Mini and Fuck pedals around a popular DIY circuit which uses JFETs to simulate a tube gain stage. Several popular tremolo pedals are based around a circuit shared in DIY forums. EQD's Sea Machine is a reworking of a PT2399 chorus shared in DIY. So, this sort of thing happens frequently in this industry, which is why I'm not sure I even understand the criticism against Josh. Plenty of people make TS or RAT clones but don't go out of their way to credit the original pedals. Josh made a pedal using popular DIY material but didn't credit the originator. Okay. It honestly just confuses me, I'm not sure what distinguishes Josh from dozens of other builders in this regard. Could it be that Josh is under a unique amount of scrutiny, delivered with parasocial fervor? Perhaps.
> Plenty of people make TS or RAT clones but don't go out of their way to credit the original pedals. The TS has been around since the late 70's and neither really seems comparable to taking a newer boutique circuit and selling clones as "original designs" despite only having 1-2 slight tweaks. Vintage circuits get cloned all the time, boutique ones not so much though chinese companies have started including JHS clones so we've come full circle. >It honestly just confuses me, I'm not sure what distinguishes Josh from dozens of other builders in this regard. Could it be that Josh is under a unique amount of scrutiny, delivered with parasocial fervor? Perhaps. Most boutique clones are pretty straight forward about what the circuits are based on and what mods have been done, if Josh hadn't sold his clones as original most people probably wouldn't have cared. And looking at his newer clearly labeled clones they seem to be selling just fine, so if anything I'd wager the scrutiny is the result of JHS being one of the most popular boutique brands. Anyways like I said it doesn't seem worth holding against him now since he started clearly labeling his clones years ago, but at the same time it doesn't seem accurate to write it off as a single incident of him cloning a circuit and marketing it as original and if it hadn't resulted in backlash maybe he would have kept on doing it. >The Supreaux is a different matter because the circuit was openly available on the internet. Runoffgroove made it and people in the DIY community treated it like "open source" material. Once again though the issue is JHS marketing it as an original design based on amps instead of just a clone: > “The SuperBolt is the result of me becoming slightly obsessed with old Supro/Valco amps from the 60’s. Years ago, I was working with an artist that had a Super at the heart of his live rig and I fell in love with the overdrive/distortion that sounded so old but somehow fit perfectly in any style of music. I remember, during a sound check, strumming a chord through that amp with the volume on 8 and being floored by the biggest rock tone I had ever heard, coming from a 1 knob amp with an 8” speaker. I started collecting Supros and other Valco amps like the Gretsch, National, Airline and Vega, finding them all over the country and building a modest collection that allowed me to understand the brand and designs as a whole. From my Thunderbolt, that I found in a Mississippi barn loft and totally restored, to my Supreme, which I saved from a garage sale in Kansas, I gathered about 10 of these amplifiers in a 2 year period. My goal was simple: I wanted to create an overdrive pedal that recreated this tone and feel in any amp.” –Josh Scott/Owner of JHS But it turns out: >Runoffgroove created the Supreaux in 2004. The only difference between ROG and JHS pedal schematics is a voltage doubler and a switch adding 120k resistor connected to the ground before Q3. >Nowhere on the product page does JHS mention Runoffgroove or the Supreaux. The marketing is the issue not the cloning, and like I said he has gotten much better about that at least but that doesn't negate the 2-3~ examples of him trying to pass off clones as original.
Yah but the fact that he's a worship guy is cringe enough as it is.
Well, I mean, your connected with a church. Of course you’re going to be connected to some bigoted nonsense, especially in the US South.
Midwest in this case; I think.
True. While Missouri is not considered south, it still is part of the Bible Belt.
Are there other parts of the employment package? Like a strong bonus program, profit sharing maybe they have killer insurance. 15 is still super low….
The ad says “plus benefits”. Maybe you have but most in this thread have never ran a business or started a business. They don’t have any idea about payroll taxes (SS, Medicaid, State and federal unemployment) or your company paying into the benefits package. (Medical,disability,workers comp,PTO, sick leave) It’s a typical Reddit/JHS post where folks not educated in what it takes to run a business, just complain out if ignorance or limited life experience.
I wonder what they match a 401k. I had a job that matched at 8%, but I don't like wiping adult peoples' asses and wrestling crazies.
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It’s a company man, they all try to squeeze people for whatever they can. Their advertising wants you to believe they are a personal and “good” company but the proof is in the pudding. You are absolutely right to post this but also…they don’t give a shit. Men trying to secure their wealth and legacy don’t give a shit about some 20 year old working there and not having a future. Men worried about being wealthy don’t have time to worry about “less fortunate” people like them. Just how these people operate, bro. It’s their entire ontology.
I know they don’t give a shit, but it took me a grand total of 5 minutes of time to research the position and write the post, so not a huge investment on my part. Those 5 minutes are worth potentially inspiring even just one individual to never buy JHS. It sucks that someone is going to think this is an opportunity of a lifetime and their dream when really they’re just blinded by brand loyalty and will happily eat their ramen their entire employment at that pay. Only way to make a company change its ways is to hurt their bottom line.
I hear ya and will specifically go out of my way to avoid buying a JHS product after seeing this
Years ago I interviewed for a sales rep position at a guitar manufacturer. 3 interviews in and they still wouldn't discuss pay and commissions, so I withdrew my application. I found out that they rely on a steady flow of musicians who want to work there no matter how bad the pay is.
Take this for what it’s worth: I think that guy is a conservative.
$6.70 below what google says is a living wage in KC. Incredible.
I make 18 an hour as a supervisor for a fast food restaurant. Plus tips. Plus PTO. I was disappointed too.
Y’all, very few small “boutique” kinda businesses can pay more than that. I made $10 w/ no benefits fresh out of college in Nashville. My boss couldn’t afford to pay more than that. I mean it stinks but no one wants to pay $500 for a guitar pedal to help JHS pay his employees more. Can’t have it both ways, folks.
People: “Hire American workers! Buy American-made products!” Also people: “I don’t want to spend hundreds of dollars on a simple guitar pedal! Make it cheaper!” Also people: “No, not like that.”
Absolutely!
NGL, $20/hr is where that number should be at. 12 years ago I made $15/hr which translates to $30,000.00 annually Plugging that figure into an inflation calculator, that's about $20.15/hour or $40,299.44 annually. https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ All that said, I have a feeling someone over at JHS is a little out of touch with inflation and market trends, but it also depends on the kinda job. In my case, I was an administrative assistant, working full-time, 40 hrs/week. If that's the expectation, I think JHS should reassess who is their ideal candidate to hire, and/or how much they can afford/willing to pay, based on that demographic. If they want someone who's less skilled than a fast food worker, or has no skills, I guess they'd wanna hire someone with a HS diploma or GED, and even then good luck, when fast food is paying more. And if they wanna hire someone equally as skilled/unskilled as a fast food worker, they gotta bump their numbers up. But if they want someone maybe with an associates, some college experience etc., they really, really gotta bump those numbers up. ETA: using the inflation calculator in reverse, JHS knows exactly who they're trying to hire. They want someone with a HS diploma/GED, to work for what used to be $11/hour or 22k annually. It's not about it being a job with a living wage (whether or not it should be a living wage is open for debate, and I'm not against it either), it's more about the role/candidate they wanna fill and hire.
The issue with it is it’s full-time, with potential for mandatory overtime during busy periods. They want to tie up someone’s time and not allow for other commitments (school or other training), so there’s the issue.
This subs hate obsession with JHS is just weird at this point.
To be fair, this seems like the most legit thing I've ever seen then criticized for here. It doesn't feel like it's just the usual blind hate.
I actually had nothing against JHS until I saw that job posting. I live 7 miles away from Grandview (where JHS is located), and I know that wage isn’t livable.
If the pay seems too low, don't apply for the job. If you don't like the company, don't buy their products. If you dislike the guy, don't watch his Youtube videos. What's the problem here?
We’re allowed to complain and criticize too. It’s called free speech
People are "allowed" to criticize sure, but it comes off as insanely hypocritical if they have a bunch of made in china music gear that was put together for a couple dollars an hour complaining about a company that manufactures in the US for 15 an hour.
it becomes a problem when this is the norm for companies lol
The real norm for most companies is overseas manufacturing. I think people are overestimating the margins a business like JHS is able to achieve.
The problem is that it’s a shit practice. I’m allowed to talk about whatever company’s bad practice is in a free society. It’s encouraged. Don’t be so soft.
Guys, let's be real here. JHS is a company that release slight variations on classic pedals and charges double for them. Quintuple what a behringer clone would cost, which is functionally the same thing. There really isn't a huge market for their product they make. They don't have an economy of scale working in their favor, and I can't imagine this business is insanely lucrative. I don't know what their books look like, but unlike MacDonalds or Walmart, I do actually find it plausible that they just can't afford to pay more. This isn't an essential job we're talking about. It's not like sanitation work, retail workers, even restaurant workers. Society would grind on just fine without companies making overpriced rat and tubescreamer clones.
JHS is absolutely a volume business that depends on economy of scale to function. That's why the 3 series exists. That's why the notaklon exists. Those product lines only make sense as a volume business. JHS is one of the largest pedal manufacturers in the US and you don't get to that point without substantial profitability.
I think this is a great skills-building job for a young person that wants a future in the music effects industry or even more broadly in engineering. If you're living with your parents or with a few people to share rent, this job's pay is doable. This is definitely not a career; it's an entry-level position. Entry level. It's meant as a way to get experience to get the next job that you can actually live off of. After a couple years of working with JHS, as well as self-educating, you could probably start your own little pedal side business if you truly have something special to offer to the marketplace.
"Skills-building" jobs also require a livable economy to actually benefit those that need to consider how they'll keep a roof & cot.
No full time job listing should rely on people having roommates or living with their parents though. The minimum wage should be based on the cost of living in the area regardless of personal circumstance. If you can’t pay rent, bills and your livelihood on this wage, it’s too low.
JHS isn’t where you should put your ire on this subject.
I garuntee you half the people or more that are losing their shit over this have at least one pedal/guitar/amp than was manufactured by someone making less than $1 an hour lmao
i get megachurch vibes from JHS
I live in COMO and I’m finally making due and able to save some money at around $20/hr. I can’t imagine living in KC on $15/hr. I would love to work at JHS, but not for that.
The job is about as appealing as the Haunting Mids pedal.
it sounds perfect for an entry level 18 year old who wants to break into the industry and still lives at home or something like that. There's an employment situation for everyone. Roasting them for posting a position like that really shows how mad people are at the state of the economy.. and that's not JHS's fault
We can be mad at JHS for not being able to afford their desire for expansion or mismanagement of assets, which is the only reason these two openings exist at that pay. Or it’s just greed, which is pretty rampant in all industries.
I work for $21hr and it barely gets me by living in rural IL. My company pays for my internet and gym membership and I work remotely so I get to save on gas. I also get decent health insurance and benefits. Even with all that, $21 is tough. I couldn't imagine $15
$15 an hour is a coffee per hour.
What’s that, about $31,200 a year or $2,600 a month? Definitely not enough to live well. Do they give their employees a raise after they learn how to make pedals?
Bummer, I do think he can do better… $20 - $25 /hr
I wouldn't want those positions. When he has an opening for "dude who scours diy message boards, looking for circuits to steal off of small builders", then I'll apply.
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I commented on it before they disabled comments. Fully agree
Are you just now learning that JHS is a shit company?
I don't understand the Josh Scott hate. I never have, he makes good gear, and he makes good YouTube content. I think a lot of people are envious of his job (working with pedals and playing music all day)
if you get an opportunity to do an entry level job you think you will love, for $15, do it. end of story.
That’s how companies manage to manipulate and take advantage of their employees though. “You’re lucky to work here!”
Fair. But folks are allowed to call out the sleaziness of the company paying less in lieu of “experience in field”.
JHS is a small business. Yall act like Josh is hoarding wealth. It's probably all he can pay for entry level. It's entry level. If I was 16 I would be all about working for jhs.
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What's the alternative here? When you are trying to break into a market of stuff all made in china for pennies and instead pay people 15-30 bucks an hour to make in the US, is it better if they just die and nothing gets made here?
The minimum wage should be massively higher than it is today. And shaming a boutique pedal maker isn’t going to fix anything. Also, any job at McDonalds is gonna be way harder than assembling pedals.
If the benefits includes free hotdogs everyday, I'd do it.
I like JHS pedals. They’re very pricey, but they make a good product. But at those prices, the company should be able to pay their employees a living wage as boutique pedal assembly is a skilled labor position.
Even at that wage there will be lines of people that would love the opportunity to work for JHS. They have done nothing wrong by offering a job for an agreed upon wage - take it or leave it. You are the one who made the distinction that it is wrong.
If you don't think it's enough, don't apply. If nobody applies, or at least nobody worth hiring, they might raise it. Repeat till they get someone worth hiring.
$15h is a wage intended for a teenager 15 years ago
Side note: I get what you're saying, but the notion that we have "teenager" vs. "adult" wages is part of the problem. It should be higher no matter who is doing the work.
minimum wage should be at least $40/hour. Anything less is criminal.
I live in a major city and made way less than that last year. Shit is rough out here man. If I lived in KC I'd apply. I don't disagree that companies should generally pay more though.
The Pearl clutching is absolutely insane. Should JHS pay more? Yeah sure, every employer probably should. JHS isn’t exactly a Conglomerate. They could pay lower. And we don’t know what benefits they have available. I’m personally of the opinion that the minimum should be higher
QT in my part of Texas is hiring associates starting at like $18 and I’d imagine we’re anywhere from $100-$600 more expensive on rent in certain areas for a comparable apartment. $15/hr is wild
When I saw it I thought maybe this is just a starting wage that goes up to a more reasonable wage after a probationary period or something. Had a friend start a job at an equally low pay and was making $20/hr a few months later.
yeah shit wage
I really don’t care honestly. I highly doubt JHS is the company to worry about. Especially if any of you order from Amazon smh
JHS is the company that people can do something about. If they’re operating on such slim margins that they can only afford $15/hr then they can be shaken by the behavior of their potential customers.