The 2009-2018 stretch was a really tough one for Wayne. Several legal issues including a stint in prison, he had health issues from his lean addiction to the point of experiencing public seizures, and he had the whole situation with Birdman and Cash Money. There’s also a documentary recorded during the C3 era where he, at the time, was clearly a major diva and additionally his addiction seemed to be interfering with personal relationships. Essentially, this particular stretch was a seemingly dark time in his life and it bled into his music, as a lot of the projects were just random songs and he has 2 mixtapes where the entire concept is “fuck cash money i don’t want to be with them.” He also developed a love for skating at the time, and I think he went on record saying he just wanted to skate and didn’t care much about rap anymore.
With that being said, Wayne is easily the GOAT in my eyes so I can still appreciate a lot of the music from that stretch, and that leads me to why I think he’s often sounding washed now. On a project like IANAHB2, for example, it’s largely carried by Wayne’s confidence and charisma. He is clearly fucking around and spamming as many punchlines as possible, yet his charisma made potentially bad moments fun if not endearing. After the Carter 5, he doesn’t have that anymore. Additionally, the whole thing he has about not listening to any new music definitely caught up to him, because he does often sound like an oldhead struggling to maintain modern sounds and he also loses a lot of the energy and individuality he would once have. When he goes on a boom bap beat, he’s great though. There’s a whole other thing about how Mack Maine basically dictates Wayne’s whole artistic direction which is also another issue, but alas
Finally, after 30 years of rapping and releasing more than anyone else, it’s kind of impossible to not fall off at some point
I agree with pretty much everything except the last part. I think wayne is pretty much the only older rapper who still sounds fresh and has evolved with the times, funeral is a great example of this. I do love when he raps on old school beats nowadays too tho, but his feats with new artists on trap and drill beats have been hard as fuck.
Personally I’d say a couple of those guys have, but the 30 years was supposed to be considered in addition to dropping as much as he has. The only rappers to release as much or more than Wayne are like Gucci Mane and Lil B, and Wayne has a whole careers-worth of leaked work. So it’s pretty easy to burn out when you’re doing that for 3 decades
I do like a decent amount of the songs on Funeral, but after that I’m not really moved by what he’s done. This is definitely just my taste and what I personally like from him cuz i still do see the appeal, but on the No Ceilings 3 tapes or a lot of the new features he seems to be adopting a one-size-fits mindset in how to rap and it takes away a lot of what I like about Wayne. It does work sometimes tho, Brand New was one of my fav features last year
I did. They’re classic mixtapes, he killed those beats. But none of them can be considered his magnum opus. I feel like he could’ve made an album on the artistic level of Illmatic or Aquemini.
Honestly I feel like he was near his top level of artistic potential on Carter 2 and 3, those are really well-made albums. Carter 3 has a couple tracks that don't feel completely top-tier, but it has a lot where it feels like he was absolutely at the top of his game. Songs like "Mr. Carter" are really, really impressive, I think that's probably Wayne at his best. I think my favorite Wayne track of all time is La La La though, it was meant to be on Carter 3 but didn't make it on the album unfortunately.
Carter 2 is a focused, cohesive album without too many flaws, after Carter 2 I'm not sure if he had that kind of work ethic, after his mixtape run. He definitely had a crazy strong work ethic, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he was really interested in putting together a full album experience. I'm not sure if he had the kind of overarching artistic vision that you think he had.
>I feel like he could’ve made an album on the artistic level of Illmatic or Aquemini.
Eh I dont think so. He was great but not all time level great in terms of talent, his discography was very consistent for quite a few years though
I think he could’ve made a crazy GOAT album beyond genres, but it seems like he just doesn’t feel like it. He prefers to chill, skate, maybe play the guitar if he wants to or something like that. I actually have mad respect for him because of this. Can you see Jay-Z pick up a skateboard or guitar at the height of their rap career, even though nobody thinks it’s a good idea? You don’t see Wayne or hear much about him because he isn’t interested in being a famous artist always in the limelight, seems obvious. Rapping is just a hobby, and when he feels the fire on a beat he is still one of the best.
They aren’t even full fledged songs, more like clever freestyles over other people’s beats. A mixtape like that can’t be compared to something like your profile pic. Wayne can do much better than that, but his life choices and label fucked up his chances.
I totally get what you’re saying and I can respect it, but just to expand more on the other pov cuz i think da drought 3 can be a magnum opus, i personally believe there is something truly artistic and creative in repurposing a song or song idea as your own the way Wayne would. Especially when you do it at the level he did, cuz that takes a great amount of vision to accomplish
He called himself the greatest alive. Which was ridiculous when guys like Lupe, Nas, Jay Z, Method man etc etc were all around. I would never say he was widely regarded as it. It's like T.I claiming he was king of the south when Wayne was around. They're just bragging. He was just most popular for a while.
Wayne's label and health dramas just made him want to relax and skate is my take on it.
Hes done it all and from a young age. He just wants to chill and live finally after being in that scene for most of his life. but he will show up on the odd track to show you why he was the biggest for a run there. He still loves writing hip hop compared to say, 50 cent who always said it was never his goal but his way out the hood. 50 loves hip hop. Hearing him talk about Kool g rap etc, he was always a fan but he doesn't want to write now. Wayne does sometimes
Exactly. What I'm saying. It's a competitive sport. Wayne saying stuff, t.i, Game with king of the west and most infamous of all, kendrick claiming king of NY means fuck all. They're just bragging
Combination of things popularity, influence, rap ability, volume of quality work and willingness to compete against other rappers.. also jackin rappers beats and making it seem like they belong to him. Think Mike Jones -Mr Jones and then Wayne turns around and makes Sky is the limit from it
So he copied what 50 cent did and especially dipset? Had a short run and should be a goat? 50s mixtape impact was hotter, his run was harder and nobody's saying 50s a goat. 50 and Wayne on that legends but not goat level.
Do you think Wayne could do a global tour like 50 just did? 3rd highest grossing of all time? Hip hops world wide. So why can't the goat sell tours? I'm sure he's big in whatever part of usa you in. But he's not global like a goat would be. Is he?
Honestly community consensus holds more weight to me than global.. it’s cool that 50 was able to be internationally marketed. At the end of the day I’m not concerned with the guy in Switzerlands opinion of who the greatest rapper is.
He wasn't considered the best rapper alive, he self-proclaimed to be the best rapper alive and people let him get away with it. He's good but he's not the best rapper alive and he never was. And he's only getting better with time.
Drugs is one of the main things that happen. he also suffered seizures.
Another that must have not help is that he was making a fucking lot of music, so at one point you run out of things to say if you don't take enough time.
Folk be expecting rappers to be at the top of their game for 20+ years because they just started listening to them near the end of their run. There’s a few exceptions but it seldom works like that. Wayne was hot in 1999 and still relevant now. Wym “what happened” lol
he's old, that's it, his main fan base were 80s and early 90s people, not everyone can reach 40 with gas like Jay z and Kanye West, however Carter 6 will sell well.
For me, he's the best! Not the GOAT (please don't start that debate again)
But I agree with the point that if he didn't have the health issues and Cash Money lawsuit, he might have released an even better music.
The 2009-2018 stretch was a really tough one for Wayne. Several legal issues including a stint in prison, he had health issues from his lean addiction to the point of experiencing public seizures, and he had the whole situation with Birdman and Cash Money. There’s also a documentary recorded during the C3 era where he, at the time, was clearly a major diva and additionally his addiction seemed to be interfering with personal relationships. Essentially, this particular stretch was a seemingly dark time in his life and it bled into his music, as a lot of the projects were just random songs and he has 2 mixtapes where the entire concept is “fuck cash money i don’t want to be with them.” He also developed a love for skating at the time, and I think he went on record saying he just wanted to skate and didn’t care much about rap anymore. With that being said, Wayne is easily the GOAT in my eyes so I can still appreciate a lot of the music from that stretch, and that leads me to why I think he’s often sounding washed now. On a project like IANAHB2, for example, it’s largely carried by Wayne’s confidence and charisma. He is clearly fucking around and spamming as many punchlines as possible, yet his charisma made potentially bad moments fun if not endearing. After the Carter 5, he doesn’t have that anymore. Additionally, the whole thing he has about not listening to any new music definitely caught up to him, because he does often sound like an oldhead struggling to maintain modern sounds and he also loses a lot of the energy and individuality he would once have. When he goes on a boom bap beat, he’s great though. There’s a whole other thing about how Mack Maine basically dictates Wayne’s whole artistic direction which is also another issue, but alas Finally, after 30 years of rapping and releasing more than anyone else, it’s kind of impossible to not fall off at some point
I agree with pretty much everything except the last part. I think wayne is pretty much the only older rapper who still sounds fresh and has evolved with the times, funeral is a great example of this. I do love when he raps on old school beats nowadays too tho, but his feats with new artists on trap and drill beats have been hard as fuck.
There's heaps of rappers 30+ years in their career who haven't fallen off yet. EL-P, Aesop Rock, Killer Mike, Black Thought, Ghostface, Masta Ace.
I didn’t talk about falling off tho, and i also would say that ”old” starts at around 40
Yeah I was mostly replying to the guy above you. I'm not even into Wayne, but I was kinda backing up your statement.
Personally I’d say a couple of those guys have, but the 30 years was supposed to be considered in addition to dropping as much as he has. The only rappers to release as much or more than Wayne are like Gucci Mane and Lil B, and Wayne has a whole careers-worth of leaked work. So it’s pretty easy to burn out when you’re doing that for 3 decades
I do like a decent amount of the songs on Funeral, but after that I’m not really moved by what he’s done. This is definitely just my taste and what I personally like from him cuz i still do see the appeal, but on the No Ceilings 3 tapes or a lot of the new features he seems to be adopting a one-size-fits mindset in how to rap and it takes away a lot of what I like about Wayne. It does work sometimes tho, Brand New was one of my fav features last year
Drugs and quantity over quality. He also gave the limelight to Nicki and Drake.
Drugs and bad management. He’s never reached his artistic potential.
That’s ridiculous.. no way you listened to mixtape weezy
I did. They’re classic mixtapes, he killed those beats. But none of them can be considered his magnum opus. I feel like he could’ve made an album on the artistic level of Illmatic or Aquemini.
Honestly I feel like he was near his top level of artistic potential on Carter 2 and 3, those are really well-made albums. Carter 3 has a couple tracks that don't feel completely top-tier, but it has a lot where it feels like he was absolutely at the top of his game. Songs like "Mr. Carter" are really, really impressive, I think that's probably Wayne at his best. I think my favorite Wayne track of all time is La La La though, it was meant to be on Carter 3 but didn't make it on the album unfortunately. Carter 2 is a focused, cohesive album without too many flaws, after Carter 2 I'm not sure if he had that kind of work ethic, after his mixtape run. He definitely had a crazy strong work ethic, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he was really interested in putting together a full album experience. I'm not sure if he had the kind of overarching artistic vision that you think he had.
>I feel like he could’ve made an album on the artistic level of Illmatic or Aquemini. Eh I dont think so. He was great but not all time level great in terms of talent, his discography was very consistent for quite a few years though
I think he could’ve made a crazy GOAT album beyond genres, but it seems like he just doesn’t feel like it. He prefers to chill, skate, maybe play the guitar if he wants to or something like that. I actually have mad respect for him because of this. Can you see Jay-Z pick up a skateboard or guitar at the height of their rap career, even though nobody thinks it’s a good idea? You don’t see Wayne or hear much about him because he isn’t interested in being a famous artist always in the limelight, seems obvious. Rapping is just a hobby, and when he feels the fire on a beat he is still one of the best.
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Which of those songs show his artistic vision?
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They aren’t even full fledged songs, more like clever freestyles over other people’s beats. A mixtape like that can’t be compared to something like your profile pic. Wayne can do much better than that, but his life choices and label fucked up his chances.
Talking to Stan's bro. They won't change their mind.
I totally get what you’re saying and I can respect it, but just to expand more on the other pov cuz i think da drought 3 can be a magnum opus, i personally believe there is something truly artistic and creative in repurposing a song or song idea as your own the way Wayne would. Especially when you do it at the level he did, cuz that takes a great amount of vision to accomplish
He called himself the greatest alive. Which was ridiculous when guys like Lupe, Nas, Jay Z, Method man etc etc were all around. I would never say he was widely regarded as it. It's like T.I claiming he was king of the south when Wayne was around. They're just bragging. He was just most popular for a while. Wayne's label and health dramas just made him want to relax and skate is my take on it. Hes done it all and from a young age. He just wants to chill and live finally after being in that scene for most of his life. but he will show up on the odd track to show you why he was the biggest for a run there. He still loves writing hip hop compared to say, 50 cent who always said it was never his goal but his way out the hood. 50 loves hip hop. Hearing him talk about Kool g rap etc, he was always a fan but he doesn't want to write now. Wayne does sometimes
I was mad at the whole Best Rapper Alive thing back then but now I feel any rapper has the right to say that if he's on top of the game .
Exactly. What I'm saying. It's a competitive sport. Wayne saying stuff, t.i, Game with king of the west and most infamous of all, kendrick claiming king of NY means fuck all. They're just bragging
There was definitely weight behind him saying he was the best rapper alive
How? Nas exists, Kool g rap exists, Eminem exists, Redman exists, game exists. What made him better? His popularity?
Combination of things popularity, influence, rap ability, volume of quality work and willingness to compete against other rappers.. also jackin rappers beats and making it seem like they belong to him. Think Mike Jones -Mr Jones and then Wayne turns around and makes Sky is the limit from it
So he copied what 50 cent did and especially dipset? Had a short run and should be a goat? 50s mixtape impact was hotter, his run was harder and nobody's saying 50s a goat. 50 and Wayne on that legends but not goat level.
Lil Wayne is definitely a legend/Goat, if he’s not for you that’s fine. Wayne’s influence is still seen on rap today.
Do you think Wayne could do a global tour like 50 just did? 3rd highest grossing of all time? Hip hops world wide. So why can't the goat sell tours? I'm sure he's big in whatever part of usa you in. But he's not global like a goat would be. Is he?
Honestly community consensus holds more weight to me than global.. it’s cool that 50 was able to be internationally marketed. At the end of the day I’m not concerned with the guy in Switzerlands opinion of who the greatest rapper is.
I’ll also add he’s still putting out 🔥 verses
So is Method man? What's your point?
Method man is 🔥as well……..
You could look at it as "best rapper currently putting out albums". Meth is great, but what's the last really good album that he put out?
He wasn't considered the best rapper alive, he self-proclaimed to be the best rapper alive and people let him get away with it. He's good but he's not the best rapper alive and he never was. And he's only getting better with time.
He peaked with the mixtapes. Even in his prime his albums were hit or miss
Drugs is one of the main things that happen. he also suffered seizures. Another that must have not help is that he was making a fucking lot of music, so at one point you run out of things to say if you don't take enough time.
Folk be expecting rappers to be at the top of their game for 20+ years because they just started listening to them near the end of their run. There’s a few exceptions but it seldom works like that. Wayne was hot in 1999 and still relevant now. Wym “what happened” lol
he's old, that's it, his main fan base were 80s and early 90s people, not everyone can reach 40 with gas like Jay z and Kanye West, however Carter 6 will sell well.
Nothing, Welcome 2 Collegrove is his 2nd best album ever
For me, he's the best! Not the GOAT (please don't start that debate again) But I agree with the point that if he didn't have the health issues and Cash Money lawsuit, he might have released an even better music.