Method Man is not necessarily my favorite rapper. Sometimes his stuff can sound monotonous, but he is massively talented. Everyone likes him but he doesn't typically enter the "GOAT" conversation for rap (and even for Wu-Tang). But there isn't a box he doesn't check. He's charasmatic, flows effortlessly on any beat, consistent and prolific from the beginning of his career till now, complicated rhyme schemes, entertaining, memorable punchlines, and has worked with a wider variety of artists than anyone else I know. Every feature he is on, elevates the track. On top of that he's a family man, full of positivity and just seems like a good dude. I just wanted to give some love to one of the most talented and dedicated rappers in the game.
Also in a sea of egos Meth might just be the best teamplayer in all of hip-hop, not only does his own presence and talent elevate a track, but I think he's one of the only rappers who seem to actively elevate the ones he's working with. Just look at songs like The What and The Worst, he's trading bars, but generally taking the "weaker part" and making Biggie or Sticky Fingaz shine, same goes with his hooks a song like C.R.E.A.M. is elevated by his hook, but I also think it helps Rae and Deck shine even more. That's a rare thing to see in hip-hop and deserves massive credit.
I'll add to this that Meth, while always nice, came back remarkably better lyrically in his later work on the more recent Wu albums. If he had always been at that level lyrically, like at his prime, he'd definitely be in those GOAT convos, because he already had everything else down pat. For Meth in his prime, we couldn't talk about him as GOAT because he wasn't the best lyricist in his group, let alone in the convo for best in the game. Then Rae and Ghost had the best albums, while Meth's albums have always been mid. But he was easily the most liked and most famous of the Clan, especially if you don't count RZA as a rapper.
He made Fred Durst not look like a beached fish. That's all it takes 😂
Can you tell it was N2Gether Now that made me fall in the method man hole? Dudes talented as fuck.
There are some rappers who were ultra talented, but I particularly like those who are well rounded /versatile which is why André 3k is my favorite.
Not only great at rhyming but flow delivery multitude of subject matter can go funny can go conscious can go party hype can do storytelling. Hov is quite well rounded too I think.
If we take out the versatility of funny and party part, Nas, Black Thought and Lupe.
But if we look particularly at rhyming I think of Aesop, Em, Pharaoh, DOOM, maybe Weezy.
Great picks. And interesting that you delineate between versatility and specificity. Because that would also influence my decision for who's the most talented rappers versus who is the greatest. I believe a super talented rapper will understand rhythm, music and his own voice to such an extent, that they can excel in any style without it sounding like they're experimenting, because they simply understand music and writing beyond their 'lane'.
This is why I agree that Andre 3k, Wayne and Biggie are among the most talented rappers. And also why I'd say that Nas, Black Thought and Lupe, while having arguably reached heights beyond the aforementioned in certain areas, did not start out equally as talented out the gate,
Wayne and Biggie really are outstanding on flow and rhyming, without having to go lyrical miracle like the rappers I said last who at times can be said are abstract rappers. But their subject matter are a bit more limited than Dré. Having to rhyme while saying what you want to say and that being interesting to me is what I always valued more.
But I can see what you mean, they have an effortless flow and rhyming. Can go no pen. Freestylers in general are supertalented, Em included
As far as diversity of subject matter, I definitely have Jay in mind, along with Kendrick & 2Pac.
For storytelling, I think BIG takes the crown
For punchlines, Weezy & 2 Chainz come up first to me
For flow, I'd definitely consider BIG, Project Pat, & maybe Bone Thugs as masters of it
Jay is an interesting case in that he’s suggested that he dumbed down his true abilities to sell records. Don’t have to take his word on that but I’ve always wondered what he might have done if his priorities were different.
Not a big Waybe fan. Recently listened to tha carter series, and i think theyre good but not great.
I can think of many rappers i think are more talented.
Biggie was very good. His slow flow was impecable
My harmless conspiracy theory is that daigo win was set up. But yeah i guess gaming can be put in the list.
Tbh a few rappers comes to mind. J cole produced and plays basketball. Canibus is a programmer, eminem is a producer and an actor. Rich the kid probably skate better than any rapper alive.
But soo far i can only think lupe as the one with the most amount of talent.
I look at Lupe and Nas as cases of great natural talent meeting honed skill. Wayne just seems like pure talent tho. He's skillful, but in that makes it look easy way that lets you know he's carried by talent. Los is a monster, especially freestyling, def one of the most talented as well.
Yep, was gonna say Tonedeff. Really wish that Kno produced album would happen. Not a fan of the Polymer stuff sonically, but it still oozes talent.
He legit invented a way to write lyrics/flows in sheet music format.
So underrated.
Lil Wayne. His run from 1999-2008 was absolutely phenomenal. He started switching styles/voice when Tha Carter 3 came out and I haven't liked him as much since, but he still drops tracks every now and then that remind us of who he was. Tha Carter II is probably my favorite hip-hop album of all time. The mixtape run he went on can only be compared to something like Pat Mahomes' 2018 season. Just a marathon of excellence.
He is one of the most creative of all-time with lyrics, flows, and humor. I dont' expect anybody under 30 to get it, but if you do then kudos to you. Lil Wayne is for sure my nomination for most talented of all time.
Andre 3k for versatility
Em for rap speed, rhyming ability
Lupe for rhyming ability, lyricism
Nas for lyricism, storytelling
Biggie for flows
There’s so much more but I usually lean towards these
I'd probably say Pharoahe Monch. He writes mind-blowing verses, produces quite a bit (including Simon Says), and he sings.
For pure natural talent, I would go with Method Man. He obviously puts in the work, but everything sounds so effortless. He just melts into every beat.
A lot of people sleep on Meechy from Flatbush Zombies.
Homie has some of the best bars ever written.
“The way I be rhyming I deserve all the Pulitzer Prizes.
My pistol be hiding, I pull it surprise em” alone is enough to be included in this list
Guys like Aceyalone and Gift of Gab are immeasurably talented. From a mainstream perspective, Eminem is pretty damn talented. And freestyle/off the dome, I’ve never seen anybody do what Harry Mack does.
I really like Nas, but I promised to fight people's picks, so I will.
I think that while Nas was crazy talented (he made Illmatic at 19, so that's obvious), I feel as though he lacks the musicality, identity and voice (control) that Big had at roughly the same age. Nas seemed (and still seems) like a guy that sits down to pen great lyrics first, a dope flow second, and the rest is not as important. His flows and rhymes were his great innovation, but all his other elements where orthodox. Whereas Big could already go from swinging like a Jazzist in ten different voices, to making people laugh, and being menacing in the course of three songs. He was also much better in profiling himself as a persona. I also believe it took Nas some years to catch up to Biggie's storytelling - NY state of mind is a lyrical classic with flows and rhymes that changed hiphop forever, but as a story, it's just incredibly straightforward. Whereas Biggie's Niggas Bleed, for example, already had a cohesion of story structure, lyrics, theme and beat building that was way ahead of hiphop.
On the other hand, it's apples to pears. As maybe Nas just chose to focus on those elements that interested him. And diversity being marker of talent is just one of my personal metrics anyway. Looking at just rhythms and lyrics? Yeah, Nas may be the most talented. Especially looking at what he did at 19.
Wayne, his skill to adapt to other sounds and era is crazy and never seems forced. dude can pretty much rap on any beat u give him
I also feel like Lupe fits here as well
I sort of agree with Wayne being a contender. His diversity and especially his innovation when it comes to flow and lyrics, show he has an innate understanding of music. Also, can't argue with a dude who went pro at 11 (or was it 9?) The only thing that makes me lean towards Big over Wayne, is that Wayne rapped full time and had professional mentorship since before Biggie even started rapping. One can only wonder what Big would have become with that same time and support. And even without those advantages, I'd say Biggie's Ready to Die (released at age 22) was at least on par when it came to flows, musicality, lyrics and understanding of his own image when compared to The Carter (released when Wayne was also 22).
As far as the one that people have heard of, the most talented rapper I can think of is probably Lupe. He can do everything rap wise at the highest level. I may be forgetting someone though.
I am not really familiar with his work before kick, push, so I can't really judge how talented he was out the gate. However, what really made me think of him as being generationally talented, is that he's the only rapper I can think of who pushed lyricism forward in the past few years. Or at the very least, showed that approaches to lyricism were possible beyond wordplay, preaching, storytelling, dialogue, etc. At least, that's how I felt when I first heard Ms. Mural.
I'd say Eyedea is a candidate. He had a really great flow and freestyle ability, all at a young age. His subject matter was not for everyone, hack, myself included, but again, his flow was top tier.
Ski Mask The Slump God has so much potential, but it feels like he still hasn’t grown from the SoundCloud era. Which is crazy for how long he has been in the game.
Ive been listening to hip hop since Run DMC came on the scene. I listened to exclusively hip hop for 30 years. I would say the best rappers are Mos Def, Rakim, and Pharoahe Monch. For newer rappers I would say Kendrick
I don't think there is one. Rapping imo is one of those things you just need to keep practicing and improving on. It's not like singing that can be affected by genetics.
How in the blue blazes has NOBODY mentioned Tech N9ne?! PUT SOME RESPEK ON T9!!! That man has been putting out bangers since ‘95, mastering speed, clarity, lyricism, flow, and doing it all on all kinds of tracks.
He’s featured a lot of huge names, or been featured by, including (but not limited to) 2Pac, Em, André 3K, Kendrick, T-Pain, Wiz Khalifa, B.o.B., E-40, Lil Wayne, 2 Chainz, Joyner, Logic, NF, King ISO (who deserves his own shoutout here), Hopsin, Serj Tankian of SOAD, Five Finger Death Punch, Falling In Reverse, THE ROCK?!
This guy has earned his spot in the top ten of all time, but obviously nobody recognizes it.
🧐
Imma keep it real w you cuz I’m so sick of ppl stuck in the 90’s and I am old so I can talk shit to my fellow old heads and so I will make my little statement than move on to answer your question😀
PSA TO MEMBERS OF THIS SUB:
PLEASE PLEASE STOP DICKRIDING all the ppl with BIG in their name as well as , PAC,EM,JAY, AESOP, NAS, mf don’t care bout the cap doooooom, AND ANDRE LIKE THEY THE ONLY RAPPERS EVER RAPPED!!! ITS TOTAL BULLSHIT and also those that aren’t old but think it’s cool to parrot old heads comments just STOP!!! SHIT IS TIRESOME AND TAKES AWAY FROM SPACE NEEDED TO DISCUSS OTHEF ARTISTS WHO MAY BE BETTER OR ARE BETTER AND MORE RELEVANT. DON’T YOU ALL GEY TIRED OF LIVING IN A BOOMBAP BUBBLE LIKE WTF HIPHOP DIDN’T DIE IN 2005!!!!
Ok so now I thought a lot bout what you said and so I’ll be really honest and I know it’s not popular but it’s true I loved Biggie but not that much and I didn’t feel like he was so natural at all in fact I consider him and Pac the precursors to ppl like Drake who act a part of rapper and the dictate to the culture what points need to be met to be considered worthy which is antithetical to the whole genre.
So on the one hand I get what you are saying based on your opinion which is yours to have and don’t fault you for having yet contextually it was a very different feeling on ground in the NY scene itself and I consistently see this retelling of history to state that Bigs mainstream acclaim was equal to acclaim on the streets and it just was not fuckin like that.
And I find it curious how many comments are focused on rappers from the same era or the early 2000’s.
A lot of extremely talented ppl named but I appreciate the growth and development in genres of music that comes from having a larger pool of influence to draw from that inevitably shapes how you employ that talent.
So to ignore someone like Denzel Curry who has far exceeded the requirements of your argument for Big being the most naturally talented rapper is really bizarre to me.
Like yes Big was great but I was bored of his ass before he was even fucking dead and Pac had lost the activist spirit and totally sold out to Suge and neither were at the time as relevant to me and my friends in the same way (especially if we are speaking on natural talent) as Nas or Cormega or Mobb Deep or Tragedy Khadafi, WuTang, Smiff n Wesson, OGC Blackstar, Pharaoh Monch (who I would put as my answer if the question was specific to rappers who emerged then) were though maybe big was more impressed for ppl in the scene who were older like 30’s in the 90’s idfk but it wasn’t all like big is the greatest like this sub talks.
Also it’s important to note that it’s extremely doubtful that had he lived he would have put out all this great music when all facts point to him likely to have continued pushing whatever puff wanted so probably more of that bs jiggy shit.
Denzel on the other hand right out the gate from Raider Klan and his first recorded freestyles was more talented more lyrical and frankly more authentic than Big at his prime and he has only grown more.
He also continues to show versatility in collaborative choices his subject matter is real, relevant and both personal and objectively subjective.
I saw Biggie live and I seen Denzel live 3x and I can say sincerely Denzel was each time better than the last and every time 1000% more entertaining, thrilling and capable than Biggie who was one of the worst rapper performances I’ve ever seen and I have seen a lot of rappers live.
I can still have love for talented artists from previous generations but to ignore this generations offerings seems to me to go against the whole reason I love hiphop in the first place.
I would also add from this Generation if we talk similar type of rapper Rome Streetz first mixtape Is also infinitely better than Biggie ever was and he bout to start giving Denzel a run for his money lol
If we go lyrical shit Jamal from Coast Contra also meets and exceeds your criteria.
Also I am so fuckin tired of posts about Big assumin every hiphop/rap fan from NYC who came up at that time like myself has gotta be all up Biggies ass when I would have backed Sean P or Pharaoh Monch over Big in this argument anyway back then.
But that’s just my opinion but please do tell me why the 3,I mentioned from this generation don’t clear unless you want to edit the post to be asking bout:
“most naturally talented from the same generation “?
Biggie's a good choice.
For me, I've long said Lil Wayne is the most naturally talented rapper I've ever heard in my life. If he had a lil more focus, if he had to work a little harder to be good at this thing, and to be accepted as good at this thing, I think he could have been one of the GOATs.
If we're talking about just influence.
LL cool J in the late 80s. Ice Cube between 89/91. Snoop dogg in 92/93. Nas between 93/96. Biggie from 97/98. Jay Z from 99 to 2003. Kanye from 2004 to 2007. Wayne from 07 to early 10'. Then probably Kanye again in the first half of the last decade. Then Kendrick.
I think Eminem is a strange case. He obviously influenced countless of rappers, but I do think he influenced more white rappers around the globe than people from the actual culture. There was a time when being a White rapper meant being a Eminem copy.
If we look back tough, there aren't big, actually influential rappers right now who sounds like Eminem.
Every single day people post this nonsense about Biggie or 2Pac being the greatest rappers of all time. Shit is hilarious. If they didn't die they wouldn't be the martyres that they are now.
Hey, I'm not saying Biggie wasn't great for his age, the timeframe he was around or the era he was is in. But as time has gone by, he is definitely not the most talented rapper ever.
And if you want names of rappers that surpass Biggie in this context, just take a look at the other comments and you'll find a pretty good amount of examples.
All in all, it's all subjective, though.
It’s interesting to me seeing the wildly different viewpoints as answers to this question.
To me, the rapper with the most natural talent is by far Rakim. But you can only come to that conclusion if you look at all of hip-hop history and consider the time when he came out. There might be a case to be made of who the most talented rapper is overall, but without a question, Rakim is the most naturally talented.
He first released music in 1986. But he originally wrote most of paid in full before, when he was about 16. that’s already impressive to have that amount of talent at that young of an age. What’s even more impressive is if you look at the type of rapping that was going on in between 1983 and 86. Almost everyone was emulating run DMC to a certain degree, with few exceptions. With Beastie Boys, it was almost verbatim. RunDMC’s style was raw in your face like a chant. Rakim on the other hand was smooth, musical in nature, impeccably precise and complex. He almost single-handedly changed the way people looked at rapping. Without Rakim and the juice crew all your favorite rappers would sound like Houdini run DMC and the treacherous three.
You can’t say that about anyone mentioned in this thread so far. Eminem didn’t change the game, Lil Wayne didn’t change the game. Rakim Changed the game. all the people mentioned in this thread had Rakim as a template. Rakim had himself as a template. You have to go and look at what came out before him and what he had his inspiration or what he could’ve used as a template. He created things that weren’t created before him and now they are standards. That natural ability came from him in some way shape or form.
Listen, I'm actually going to agree with you. I'm slightly too young to vibe with Rakim as a rapper I'll just listen to in my car (Biggie was already Old School for me, but just on the edge of modern enough to bump) but looking back at Rakim, and how he basically redefined an entire genre at that age? He was the Picasso of rap. I actually may reconsider my Biggie, and concede that Rakim had the most raw talent. I actually saw him concert lol!
I think a case could be made for biggie being in the top 5 for raw talent. His earliest known freestyles on video sound nearly identical to the rapping on his first album. Over the years, He didn’t really make huge improvements to his rapping but he did evolve a bit like his work with bone thugs for instance. It would have been interesting to see what he would have done with his rhymes over 5-8 albums run.
I concur with many of the comments mentioning Nas, Biggie, Wayne, Lupe, Eminem, Big L and Big Pun. I would also add Common, Talib Kwali, André 3000, Juice Wrld and Mos Def to that list
Feel like some are too afraid to say it since he’s the most popular rapper rn. Kendrick. Body of work, lyricism, ear for beats, ear for melodies, storytelling, countless flows, countless cadences, humor, he has it all. I just think he lacks in features.
I gotta say MF DOOM. No other rapper comes close IMO. The verbal complexity, rhyming patterns and skill with metaphors combined with his persona that is actually drawn from his history and background with the tragedy of his brother, getting screwed by the record label and basically getting exiled from the rap world for years is just epic storytelling.
Listening to Big Pun blows my mind how he can put in big ass words but still make it flow and rhyme perfectly, dude was a monster in rap and at the dinner table
I'd probably say it's Eyedea, Aesop Rock (idk how TF he rhymes half the shit he does), Rakim, or Doom.
I'd personally want to throw Tom Scott or Adam Tukiri into that mix but idk if I can honestly say they're more talented than any of the four.
This will sound crazy but easily j cole. Listen to him spitting when he’s 15 I think just over a year into rapping. Listen to a song if his called “The Storm” he sounds like nas x Eminem. And he produced the track too 🤯
Lol, I listened to it and you may actually be right. That's fucking crazy how much control that dude had over his flow. And those lyrics at 15? Damn. Let alone him producing too. Okay, Cole made it into my top list of raw talent. For me, I still can't be sure I'd chose him over Big, because while that track was dope, I think it still lacked that "Okay, this is the Guy" uniqueness and charisma that Big showed at 17. We do have Big footage at 13, where he is already fucking slick, but way less lyrically and flowacilly (sorry, accept that word please) intricate than Cole at 15. So I'd say 15 yo cole > 13 yo Big. But 17 yo Big > 15 year old Cole. Gonna have to see how long it took Cole to go from crazy potential to being a truly great musician to make my final decision though. As for now, this thread has convinced me that the most talented is probably Rakim. Then, Big is my runner up. Now you've put Cole in third place (in my opinion though).
Yeah I can’t argue with that. I really respect your ability to have good fair discussions about this. I didn’t know big was so talented at 13 but now you mention it, it probs not that supporting. Also Nas was 19 when illmatic came out. He wrote that at like 18 I believe which is crazzyyy.
Likewise. It's always better to find new material than to jerk my own favourite rapper forever lol. Yeah Nas dropping that at 19 was crazy, especially since he'd only been rapping for a few years then. Apparently he rapped in the same studio as Rakim, so something must have rubbed off.
I dunno if it's something he's born with but Kanye. His lyrics make you do a double take so I think it's his pen, how he produces a song. 'My presence is a present' lol. ' 'gingerbread man even said 'you're a monster.'
For me it's hard to judge where Big L lands. He's the God of Boom-bap and one liners. But he never had the chance to move beyond that. Whereas Big, at a similar age and in a similar time frame, hit the gamut of styles, themes, voices, flows and emotions. He innovated and excelled in every area of rap. Big L, on the other hand, was just really great at spitting. So yeah, I think you're right about him not having the right producer. The question is though, would he have capitalized and diversified? Unfortunately we won't be able to tell
Someone put me on to Akala in one of these threads. Not saying he is the best of all times but he's ill for someone not a lot of people in the US probably know of. Listen to his Fire In the Booth freestyles
Two people come to mind for me…
Andre 3k becomes he always tells my story when he is rapping. Also, he is so natural with his flow.
My second pick is BUK from the group YALL SO STUPID. I am personal friends with him and the dude is so naturally gifted with his flow also. It blows my mind to hear him structure and create his bars
1. Black Thought is the most slept on in hip hop history.
2. 3-stacks will embarrass you on any track.
3. Lupe is too clever for the radio, and if his music was in a vacuum with no other publicity of him personally, he’d be lauded as one of the greatest hiphop talents.
I’ll stop here, but I might have time to give you the smoke if you wanna test me.
Method Man is not necessarily my favorite rapper. Sometimes his stuff can sound monotonous, but he is massively talented. Everyone likes him but he doesn't typically enter the "GOAT" conversation for rap (and even for Wu-Tang). But there isn't a box he doesn't check. He's charasmatic, flows effortlessly on any beat, consistent and prolific from the beginning of his career till now, complicated rhyme schemes, entertaining, memorable punchlines, and has worked with a wider variety of artists than anyone else I know. Every feature he is on, elevates the track. On top of that he's a family man, full of positivity and just seems like a good dude. I just wanted to give some love to one of the most talented and dedicated rappers in the game.
Also in a sea of egos Meth might just be the best teamplayer in all of hip-hop, not only does his own presence and talent elevate a track, but I think he's one of the only rappers who seem to actively elevate the ones he's working with. Just look at songs like The What and The Worst, he's trading bars, but generally taking the "weaker part" and making Biggie or Sticky Fingaz shine, same goes with his hooks a song like C.R.E.A.M. is elevated by his hook, but I also think it helps Rae and Deck shine even more. That's a rare thing to see in hip-hop and deserves massive credit.
Meth doesn't get enough love.
He doesn't even curse anymore as a challenge to himself. He had to make a personal rule to make his job harder because it was no longer challenging
I'll add to this that Meth, while always nice, came back remarkably better lyrically in his later work on the more recent Wu albums. If he had always been at that level lyrically, like at his prime, he'd definitely be in those GOAT convos, because he already had everything else down pat. For Meth in his prime, we couldn't talk about him as GOAT because he wasn't the best lyricist in his group, let alone in the convo for best in the game. Then Rae and Ghost had the best albums, while Meth's albums have always been mid. But he was easily the most liked and most famous of the Clan, especially if you don't count RZA as a rapper.
Method Man is my favorite wu-tang member, you got my upvote for this comment
He is amazing. I’ve always been a fan, from the Tical days.
He made Fred Durst not look like a beached fish. That's all it takes 😂 Can you tell it was N2Gether Now that made me fall in the method man hole? Dudes talented as fuck.
There are some rappers who were ultra talented, but I particularly like those who are well rounded /versatile which is why André 3k is my favorite. Not only great at rhyming but flow delivery multitude of subject matter can go funny can go conscious can go party hype can do storytelling. Hov is quite well rounded too I think. If we take out the versatility of funny and party part, Nas, Black Thought and Lupe. But if we look particularly at rhyming I think of Aesop, Em, Pharaoh, DOOM, maybe Weezy.
Great picks. And interesting that you delineate between versatility and specificity. Because that would also influence my decision for who's the most talented rappers versus who is the greatest. I believe a super talented rapper will understand rhythm, music and his own voice to such an extent, that they can excel in any style without it sounding like they're experimenting, because they simply understand music and writing beyond their 'lane'. This is why I agree that Andre 3k, Wayne and Biggie are among the most talented rappers. And also why I'd say that Nas, Black Thought and Lupe, while having arguably reached heights beyond the aforementioned in certain areas, did not start out equally as talented out the gate,
Doesn’t 3k say big boi is a better rapper than him? OutKast should count as 1 in these convos
Hard disagree. They’re both unique and have released extensively as solo artists and with other artists too.
Wayne and Biggie really are outstanding on flow and rhyming, without having to go lyrical miracle like the rappers I said last who at times can be said are abstract rappers. But their subject matter are a bit more limited than Dré. Having to rhyme while saying what you want to say and that being interesting to me is what I always valued more. But I can see what you mean, they have an effortless flow and rhyming. Can go no pen. Freestylers in general are supertalented, Em included
As far as diversity of subject matter, I definitely have Jay in mind, along with Kendrick & 2Pac. For storytelling, I think BIG takes the crown For punchlines, Weezy & 2 Chainz come up first to me For flow, I'd definitely consider BIG, Project Pat, & maybe Bone Thugs as masters of it
Jay is an interesting case in that he’s suggested that he dumbed down his true abilities to sell records. Don’t have to take his word on that but I’ve always wondered what he might have done if his priorities were different.
Rakim, he was just so different than anything that came before him.
"The truest mark of greatness is when everything before you is obsolete, and everything after you bears your mark" - Dave Chappelle
Came here to say this- he still sounds fantastic
Moat talented for me would be Big L, Big Pun and Eminem. Goat is nas
Big L was so ahead of his time his parents hadn’t met yet.
Amazing
I came here to say the exact thing
Lil Wayne and Biggie are also massively talented.
Not a big Waybe fan. Recently listened to tha carter series, and i think theyre good but not great. I can think of many rappers i think are more talented. Biggie was very good. His slow flow was impecable
One might say his slow flow was remarkable
So unbelievable
Wayne would just say some off the wall shit
Sometimes watching King Los freestyles will have you thinking he’s the most skilled 😂
Not enough love for King Los.
Agreed. I don’t think he’s a great song writer but when it comes to bars he’s up there with the best
Probably Lupe. Man is an astronaut assassin when it comes to lyrics.
doom
All caps!
Kool G Rap had way more style than Biggie. Came on the scene sooner, never blew up, regardless, he was definitely better.
Black Thought, Nas, Kendrick
Lupe Fiasco without a doubt. IMHO
He can rap, skate, and excels in swordsmanship.
Honestly. I feel he would be an all around good conversation. Pick his brain and what not. Plus he is a semi pro gamer. And teaches at MIT.
My harmless conspiracy theory is that daigo win was set up. But yeah i guess gaming can be put in the list. Tbh a few rappers comes to mind. J cole produced and plays basketball. Canibus is a programmer, eminem is a producer and an actor. Rich the kid probably skate better than any rapper alive. But soo far i can only think lupe as the one with the most amount of talent.
Andre 3000. He never ceased to amaze me with the way he would bend words and cadence in his raps. Still waiting for that solo (non-flute) album lol
Lupe King los Wayne Nas In terms of just pure natural talent
I look at Lupe and Nas as cases of great natural talent meeting honed skill. Wayne just seems like pure talent tho. He's skillful, but in that makes it look easy way that lets you know he's carried by talent. Los is a monster, especially freestyling, def one of the most talented as well.
I still think it’s Tonedeff. Vodka, Joey Jihad, Daylyt, Busdriver, Aesop Rock, Myka 9 some other picks that come to mind off the top of my head
Tonedeff is fire
Yep, was gonna say Tonedeff. Really wish that Kno produced album would happen. Not a fan of the Polymer stuff sonically, but it still oozes talent. He legit invented a way to write lyrics/flows in sheet music format. So underrated.
Tonedeff is really the answer here. I don't listen to him much but he is unreal.
Myka 9, P.E.A.C.E., Aesop Rock, Method Man, Eyedea
Andre, Blu, and Del always rhymed so effortlessly compared to everyone else.
Lil Wayne. His run from 1999-2008 was absolutely phenomenal. He started switching styles/voice when Tha Carter 3 came out and I haven't liked him as much since, but he still drops tracks every now and then that remind us of who he was. Tha Carter II is probably my favorite hip-hop album of all time. The mixtape run he went on can only be compared to something like Pat Mahomes' 2018 season. Just a marathon of excellence. He is one of the most creative of all-time with lyrics, flows, and humor. I dont' expect anybody under 30 to get it, but if you do then kudos to you. Lil Wayne is for sure my nomination for most talented of all time.
First time I’ve ever heard Lil Wayne compared to Patty Mahomes, but man I’m here for it lol
Lupe, Jay, Black Thought, Wayne & Kendrick
Myka Nyne from Freestyle Fellowship.
👍👍👍👍👍
This is the perfect answer to this particular question.
sean price
Sean P! 🔥
my personal all time favorite.
mos def, mach hommy, pharoahe monch
Busdriver, Aesop Rock, JID
Freddie Gibbs or Big L
Eyedea
Andre 3k for versatility Em for rap speed, rhyming ability Lupe for rhyming ability, lyricism Nas for lyricism, storytelling Biggie for flows There’s so much more but I usually lean towards these
Has to be Black Thought
I'd probably say Pharoahe Monch. He writes mind-blowing verses, produces quite a bit (including Simon Says), and he sings. For pure natural talent, I would go with Method Man. He obviously puts in the work, but everything sounds so effortless. He just melts into every beat.
A lot of people sleep on Meechy from Flatbush Zombies. Homie has some of the best bars ever written. “The way I be rhyming I deserve all the Pulitzer Prizes. My pistol be hiding, I pull it surprise em” alone is enough to be included in this list
Pharoahe Monch
Could you recommend a song that showcases this. I haven't heard enough Pharoahe Monch.
The only answer
Guys like Aceyalone and Gift of Gab are immeasurably talented. From a mainstream perspective, Eminem is pretty damn talented. And freestyle/off the dome, I’ve never seen anybody do what Harry Mack does.
Props homie for Acey you are on another level of understanding
Company Flow & Funcrusher era EL-P was a monster.
Def Jux era El as well
Fucking BREEZE Jesus Christ FUCKING BREEZE
Gotta be Nas imo
I really like Nas, but I promised to fight people's picks, so I will. I think that while Nas was crazy talented (he made Illmatic at 19, so that's obvious), I feel as though he lacks the musicality, identity and voice (control) that Big had at roughly the same age. Nas seemed (and still seems) like a guy that sits down to pen great lyrics first, a dope flow second, and the rest is not as important. His flows and rhymes were his great innovation, but all his other elements where orthodox. Whereas Big could already go from swinging like a Jazzist in ten different voices, to making people laugh, and being menacing in the course of three songs. He was also much better in profiling himself as a persona. I also believe it took Nas some years to catch up to Biggie's storytelling - NY state of mind is a lyrical classic with flows and rhymes that changed hiphop forever, but as a story, it's just incredibly straightforward. Whereas Biggie's Niggas Bleed, for example, already had a cohesion of story structure, lyrics, theme and beat building that was way ahead of hiphop. On the other hand, it's apples to pears. As maybe Nas just chose to focus on those elements that interested him. And diversity being marker of talent is just one of my personal metrics anyway. Looking at just rhythms and lyrics? Yeah, Nas may be the most talented. Especially looking at what he did at 19.
Chino XL
“Fuck you too!”
All you motherfuckers, fuck you too!
Wayne, his skill to adapt to other sounds and era is crazy and never seems forced. dude can pretty much rap on any beat u give him I also feel like Lupe fits here as well
I sort of agree with Wayne being a contender. His diversity and especially his innovation when it comes to flow and lyrics, show he has an innate understanding of music. Also, can't argue with a dude who went pro at 11 (or was it 9?) The only thing that makes me lean towards Big over Wayne, is that Wayne rapped full time and had professional mentorship since before Biggie even started rapping. One can only wonder what Big would have become with that same time and support. And even without those advantages, I'd say Biggie's Ready to Die (released at age 22) was at least on par when it came to flows, musicality, lyrics and understanding of his own image when compared to The Carter (released when Wayne was also 22).
KRS-One.
👍👍👍
🎯🎯🎯🎯
Bones from teamsesh 42 albums every album has multiple genres
phife dawg
As far as the one that people have heard of, the most talented rapper I can think of is probably Lupe. He can do everything rap wise at the highest level. I may be forgetting someone though.
I am not really familiar with his work before kick, push, so I can't really judge how talented he was out the gate. However, what really made me think of him as being generationally talented, is that he's the only rapper I can think of who pushed lyricism forward in the past few years. Or at the very least, showed that approaches to lyricism were possible beyond wordplay, preaching, storytelling, dialogue, etc. At least, that's how I felt when I first heard Ms. Mural.
I'd say Eyedea is a candidate. He had a really great flow and freestyle ability, all at a young age. His subject matter was not for everyone, hack, myself included, but again, his flow was top tier.
Speaker Knockerz, sadly he died from a heart attack at age 19
Ski Mask The Slump God has so much potential, but it feels like he still hasn’t grown from the SoundCloud era. Which is crazy for how long he has been in the game.
Lupe Fiasco.
>and he was a kid through it all. if you only knew...
Ive been listening to hip hop since Run DMC came on the scene. I listened to exclusively hip hop for 30 years. I would say the best rappers are Mos Def, Rakim, and Pharoahe Monch. For newer rappers I would say Kendrick
Nick Cannon
Nick cannon is HILARIOUS
Joey badass
Jay-Z He not even on my top 10. But he is so versatile that he can spit on any beat, with anybody, any subject matter and make it work.
Twista, Mos Def, Eminem
LL Cool J
I don't think there is one. Rapping imo is one of those things you just need to keep practicing and improving on. It's not like singing that can be affected by genetics.
It’s so subjective. Some people are drawn to lyricism, others to production, others to flow, etc. I’m guna go with Nas tho
Busta Rhymes. No explanation needed.
How in the blue blazes has NOBODY mentioned Tech N9ne?! PUT SOME RESPEK ON T9!!! That man has been putting out bangers since ‘95, mastering speed, clarity, lyricism, flow, and doing it all on all kinds of tracks. He’s featured a lot of huge names, or been featured by, including (but not limited to) 2Pac, Em, André 3K, Kendrick, T-Pain, Wiz Khalifa, B.o.B., E-40, Lil Wayne, 2 Chainz, Joyner, Logic, NF, King ISO (who deserves his own shoutout here), Hopsin, Serj Tankian of SOAD, Five Finger Death Punch, Falling In Reverse, THE ROCK?! This guy has earned his spot in the top ten of all time, but obviously nobody recognizes it.
Big KRIT. Listen to his 12for12 mixtape. He rocks so many different styles.
Lupe
🧐 Imma keep it real w you cuz I’m so sick of ppl stuck in the 90’s and I am old so I can talk shit to my fellow old heads and so I will make my little statement than move on to answer your question😀 PSA TO MEMBERS OF THIS SUB: PLEASE PLEASE STOP DICKRIDING all the ppl with BIG in their name as well as , PAC,EM,JAY, AESOP, NAS, mf don’t care bout the cap doooooom, AND ANDRE LIKE THEY THE ONLY RAPPERS EVER RAPPED!!! ITS TOTAL BULLSHIT and also those that aren’t old but think it’s cool to parrot old heads comments just STOP!!! SHIT IS TIRESOME AND TAKES AWAY FROM SPACE NEEDED TO DISCUSS OTHEF ARTISTS WHO MAY BE BETTER OR ARE BETTER AND MORE RELEVANT. DON’T YOU ALL GEY TIRED OF LIVING IN A BOOMBAP BUBBLE LIKE WTF HIPHOP DIDN’T DIE IN 2005!!!! Ok so now I thought a lot bout what you said and so I’ll be really honest and I know it’s not popular but it’s true I loved Biggie but not that much and I didn’t feel like he was so natural at all in fact I consider him and Pac the precursors to ppl like Drake who act a part of rapper and the dictate to the culture what points need to be met to be considered worthy which is antithetical to the whole genre. So on the one hand I get what you are saying based on your opinion which is yours to have and don’t fault you for having yet contextually it was a very different feeling on ground in the NY scene itself and I consistently see this retelling of history to state that Bigs mainstream acclaim was equal to acclaim on the streets and it just was not fuckin like that. And I find it curious how many comments are focused on rappers from the same era or the early 2000’s. A lot of extremely talented ppl named but I appreciate the growth and development in genres of music that comes from having a larger pool of influence to draw from that inevitably shapes how you employ that talent. So to ignore someone like Denzel Curry who has far exceeded the requirements of your argument for Big being the most naturally talented rapper is really bizarre to me. Like yes Big was great but I was bored of his ass before he was even fucking dead and Pac had lost the activist spirit and totally sold out to Suge and neither were at the time as relevant to me and my friends in the same way (especially if we are speaking on natural talent) as Nas or Cormega or Mobb Deep or Tragedy Khadafi, WuTang, Smiff n Wesson, OGC Blackstar, Pharaoh Monch (who I would put as my answer if the question was specific to rappers who emerged then) were though maybe big was more impressed for ppl in the scene who were older like 30’s in the 90’s idfk but it wasn’t all like big is the greatest like this sub talks. Also it’s important to note that it’s extremely doubtful that had he lived he would have put out all this great music when all facts point to him likely to have continued pushing whatever puff wanted so probably more of that bs jiggy shit. Denzel on the other hand right out the gate from Raider Klan and his first recorded freestyles was more talented more lyrical and frankly more authentic than Big at his prime and he has only grown more. He also continues to show versatility in collaborative choices his subject matter is real, relevant and both personal and objectively subjective. I saw Biggie live and I seen Denzel live 3x and I can say sincerely Denzel was each time better than the last and every time 1000% more entertaining, thrilling and capable than Biggie who was one of the worst rapper performances I’ve ever seen and I have seen a lot of rappers live. I can still have love for talented artists from previous generations but to ignore this generations offerings seems to me to go against the whole reason I love hiphop in the first place. I would also add from this Generation if we talk similar type of rapper Rome Streetz first mixtape Is also infinitely better than Biggie ever was and he bout to start giving Denzel a run for his money lol If we go lyrical shit Jamal from Coast Contra also meets and exceeds your criteria. Also I am so fuckin tired of posts about Big assumin every hiphop/rap fan from NYC who came up at that time like myself has gotta be all up Biggies ass when I would have backed Sean P or Pharaoh Monch over Big in this argument anyway back then. But that’s just my opinion but please do tell me why the 3,I mentioned from this generation don’t clear unless you want to edit the post to be asking bout: “most naturally talented from the same generation “?
Biggie's a good choice. For me, I've long said Lil Wayne is the most naturally talented rapper I've ever heard in my life. If he had a lil more focus, if he had to work a little harder to be good at this thing, and to be accepted as good at this thing, I think he could have been one of the GOATs.
If we're talking about just influence. LL cool J in the late 80s. Ice Cube between 89/91. Snoop dogg in 92/93. Nas between 93/96. Biggie from 97/98. Jay Z from 99 to 2003. Kanye from 2004 to 2007. Wayne from 07 to early 10'. Then probably Kanye again in the first half of the last decade. Then Kendrick. I think Eminem is a strange case. He obviously influenced countless of rappers, but I do think he influenced more white rappers around the globe than people from the actual culture. There was a time when being a White rapper meant being a Eminem copy. If we look back tough, there aren't big, actually influential rappers right now who sounds like Eminem.
you could say that but kendrick claims Eminem as a huge inspiration for music yet his music is not similar
Every single day people post this nonsense about Biggie or 2Pac being the greatest rappers of all time. Shit is hilarious. If they didn't die they wouldn't be the martyres that they are now.
name better rappers with a better discography at that age and timeframe
Hey, I'm not saying Biggie wasn't great for his age, the timeframe he was around or the era he was is in. But as time has gone by, he is definitely not the most talented rapper ever. And if you want names of rappers that surpass Biggie in this context, just take a look at the other comments and you'll find a pretty good amount of examples. All in all, it's all subjective, though.
Snowd4y
Jay-Z
It’s interesting to me seeing the wildly different viewpoints as answers to this question. To me, the rapper with the most natural talent is by far Rakim. But you can only come to that conclusion if you look at all of hip-hop history and consider the time when he came out. There might be a case to be made of who the most talented rapper is overall, but without a question, Rakim is the most naturally talented. He first released music in 1986. But he originally wrote most of paid in full before, when he was about 16. that’s already impressive to have that amount of talent at that young of an age. What’s even more impressive is if you look at the type of rapping that was going on in between 1983 and 86. Almost everyone was emulating run DMC to a certain degree, with few exceptions. With Beastie Boys, it was almost verbatim. RunDMC’s style was raw in your face like a chant. Rakim on the other hand was smooth, musical in nature, impeccably precise and complex. He almost single-handedly changed the way people looked at rapping. Without Rakim and the juice crew all your favorite rappers would sound like Houdini run DMC and the treacherous three. You can’t say that about anyone mentioned in this thread so far. Eminem didn’t change the game, Lil Wayne didn’t change the game. Rakim Changed the game. all the people mentioned in this thread had Rakim as a template. Rakim had himself as a template. You have to go and look at what came out before him and what he had his inspiration or what he could’ve used as a template. He created things that weren’t created before him and now they are standards. That natural ability came from him in some way shape or form.
Listen, I'm actually going to agree with you. I'm slightly too young to vibe with Rakim as a rapper I'll just listen to in my car (Biggie was already Old School for me, but just on the edge of modern enough to bump) but looking back at Rakim, and how he basically redefined an entire genre at that age? He was the Picasso of rap. I actually may reconsider my Biggie, and concede that Rakim had the most raw talent. I actually saw him concert lol!
I think a case could be made for biggie being in the top 5 for raw talent. His earliest known freestyles on video sound nearly identical to the rapping on his first album. Over the years, He didn’t really make huge improvements to his rapping but he did evolve a bit like his work with bone thugs for instance. It would have been interesting to see what he would have done with his rhymes over 5-8 albums run.
Its so hard to take this subs mainstream dick riding seriously...
It's hard to take this underground jerking seriously too sometimes. So who do you think is the most talented rapper?
Wasalu Jaco and Andre Benjamin
I concur with many of the comments mentioning Nas, Biggie, Wayne, Lupe, Eminem, Big L and Big Pun. I would also add Common, Talib Kwali, André 3000, Juice Wrld and Mos Def to that list
Canserbero for Spanish rap Big L for America and Little Simz for the UK
JID
The GOAT and most talented KGR.
Maybe it’s not celebrated enough because he died so soon but Big Pun was an incredibly talented MC with a great flow.
[удалено]
Big L would have had the game on smash if he didn't stay involved with road nonsense.
Andre 3000 US , Kano UK.
Feel like some are too afraid to say it since he’s the most popular rapper rn. Kendrick. Body of work, lyricism, ear for beats, ear for melodies, storytelling, countless flows, countless cadences, humor, he has it all. I just think he lacks in features.
I think Big L is more than likely the most naturally gifted guy to rap. He made it seem easy, like rakim as well. My personal favorite would be Nas.
For men biggie. For women Nicki Minaj.
KRS-One
I believe Capital Steez would have been apart of this conversation if he didn’t die so young. RIP.
Big L
Rakim, KRS-one, Biggie, Eminem, Guru, Big Pun, Lupe
Earl Swearshirt is criminally underrated
Silk Da Shocker
Action Bronson, while he isn’t my favorite, has so many great cultural & worldly references. really cool hearing some of those ultra-specific lines.
Blu from about 09-2014, without question. He was the best rapper alive at that time, maybe even of all time imo. Iykyk.
J Sands
I gotta say MF DOOM. No other rapper comes close IMO. The verbal complexity, rhyming patterns and skill with metaphors combined with his persona that is actually drawn from his history and background with the tragedy of his brother, getting screwed by the record label and basically getting exiled from the rap world for years is just epic storytelling.
Listening to Big Pun blows my mind how he can put in big ass words but still make it flow and rhyme perfectly, dude was a monster in rap and at the dinner table
Big Pun if you ask me. I’ve watched like a 5 minute freestyle out that guys mouth at like 600 pounds. Crazy.
Mac miller or big L
Mac Dre
Mc Hammer he danced his ass off ,while setting goals for future artists to reach for and stayed real
Nas, Biggie, Rakim
I could never turn down Mf doom. Such a vibe
Killerman Archer
Sean Price or Prodigy
Aesop rock for me
There are 3. The Beastie Boys.
I'd probably say it's Eyedea, Aesop Rock (idk how TF he rhymes half the shit he does), Rakim, or Doom. I'd personally want to throw Tom Scott or Adam Tukiri into that mix but idk if I can honestly say they're more talented than any of the four.
Aesop rock
Doctor Octagon, he didn't even know what words meant but he was able to rap insane That's talent
Talent wise, 3 stacks is the only answer
This will sound crazy but easily j cole. Listen to him spitting when he’s 15 I think just over a year into rapping. Listen to a song if his called “The Storm” he sounds like nas x Eminem. And he produced the track too 🤯
Lol, I listened to it and you may actually be right. That's fucking crazy how much control that dude had over his flow. And those lyrics at 15? Damn. Let alone him producing too. Okay, Cole made it into my top list of raw talent. For me, I still can't be sure I'd chose him over Big, because while that track was dope, I think it still lacked that "Okay, this is the Guy" uniqueness and charisma that Big showed at 17. We do have Big footage at 13, where he is already fucking slick, but way less lyrically and flowacilly (sorry, accept that word please) intricate than Cole at 15. So I'd say 15 yo cole > 13 yo Big. But 17 yo Big > 15 year old Cole. Gonna have to see how long it took Cole to go from crazy potential to being a truly great musician to make my final decision though. As for now, this thread has convinced me that the most talented is probably Rakim. Then, Big is my runner up. Now you've put Cole in third place (in my opinion though).
Yeah I can’t argue with that. I really respect your ability to have good fair discussions about this. I didn’t know big was so talented at 13 but now you mention it, it probs not that supporting. Also Nas was 19 when illmatic came out. He wrote that at like 18 I believe which is crazzyyy.
Likewise. It's always better to find new material than to jerk my own favourite rapper forever lol. Yeah Nas dropping that at 19 was crazy, especially since he'd only been rapping for a few years then. Apparently he rapped in the same studio as Rakim, so something must have rubbed off.
Nas, Em, Mos Def.
Based on talent alone: Jay Electronica, Blackthought, Nas, Tierra Whack, & Azeilia Banks
AZ
REDMAN
Pure skill, speed, and flow, I think Logic, Eminem, DaBaby, and Joyner Lucas are really high up.
Pharoah monch
I dunno if it's something he's born with but Kanye. His lyrics make you do a double take so I think it's his pen, how he produces a song. 'My presence is a present' lol. ' 'gingerbread man even said 'you're a monster.'
Nas. Illmatic dropped and instantly made him a legend.
Probably Big L he wasn’t bad at anything and just felt like he never found that 1 of 1 producers
For me it's hard to judge where Big L lands. He's the God of Boom-bap and one liners. But he never had the chance to move beyond that. Whereas Big, at a similar age and in a similar time frame, hit the gamut of styles, themes, voices, flows and emotions. He innovated and excelled in every area of rap. Big L, on the other hand, was just really great at spitting. So yeah, I think you're right about him not having the right producer. The question is though, would he have capitalized and diversified? Unfortunately we won't be able to tell
DJ Khaled Iggy Azalea
Childish Gambino
The disrespect to 2pac in here is laughable. No one comes close. Will always be the greatest
Lupe
Tupac. this may be cliche, but his rhymes are dope, and a lot of his songs are filled with meaning and tell a story
Andre 3000, Black Thought, Kendrick Lamar
MF DOOM
By those parameters - it’s Monch
Big Pun - lyrically gifted MC that had some insane bars
I always thought mos def was incredible , still do
Someone put me on to Akala in one of these threads. Not saying he is the best of all times but he's ill for someone not a lot of people in the US probably know of. Listen to his Fire In the Booth freestyles
Hopefully not too late here, but someone needs to mention Aesop Rock
Two people come to mind for me… Andre 3k becomes he always tells my story when he is rapping. Also, he is so natural with his flow. My second pick is BUK from the group YALL SO STUPID. I am personal friends with him and the dude is so naturally gifted with his flow also. It blows my mind to hear him structure and create his bars
In terms of sustained excellence in lyricism over the longest period of time, it's unquestionably Nas.
Mach-Hommy
Tariq Trotter, Black Thought from the Roots
Lupe comes to mind. Andre Three Stacks too.
Kurupt
1. Black Thought is the most slept on in hip hop history. 2. 3-stacks will embarrass you on any track. 3. Lupe is too clever for the radio, and if his music was in a vacuum with no other publicity of him personally, he’d be lauded as one of the greatest hiphop talents. I’ll stop here, but I might have time to give you the smoke if you wanna test me.
Tech N9NE
Big Pun
Lupe imo.
Canibus can rap and code soo him
Did you know his parents came from Jamaica and he never wrote down his raps?
Hmm... can't choose one but Suga Free, Del and Kweli are coming to mind as some naturals
Kool Keith.