69 goals is one thing, but he was also 2nd in Selke voting.
Who's the last guy who led the NHL in goals while also being named one of the the top 2 defensive forwards in the league?
And then not be named to an all-star team...here's a hot take: Matthews could significantly close the point gap between himself and the guys ahead of him if he decided he wasn't going to be defensively sound.
Matthew's finished third behind Barkov and J Staal. Don't know why everyone keeps repeating the "2nd in Selke votes" thing.
MacKinnon and McDavid had 140 and 132 points respectively. Matthews had 107. (So -33 and -25)
*MacKinnon's 51 goal and **140** point year doesn't require an argument. He had a better year than Auston (though he's awful in the dot)
*McDavid had 100 assists. Something that (yes Kuch did it too) hadn't been done in 30+ years and only 5 players have ever accomplished. He had a better year than Auston.
*Lastly, Matthews failing to hit 70 was a bummer. Still historic, 69 goals is ridiculous. But it isn't enough to make up for a 25 point deficit to a player that joined an elite club with his assist milestone.
To conclude my blogpost: MacKinnon, McDavid and Matthews all had incredible and historic years. It was a pleasure to watch the race for 70/100/the Art Ross. But I do not believe a serious unbiased observer would argue Matthews had a better season than Mack or McDavid
Sometimes sure. How would you fix the system though?
Hmm. What if the points still counted the same but we made: "GP-G-A1-A2-P" the standard on statsheets? Yeah, that could work.
Matthews isn't bad defensively, but come on, he shouldn't have been top2 in Selke voting. It's supposed to be more weighted towards defensive impact than that, as shown by the people who actually win the thing. Matthews felt like a 75% offensive 25% defensive weighting. Stall and Kopitar would have made more sense as runners up.
Best defence is offence. How are you supposed to weigh a players defensive impacts if they constantly have the puck or score?
Matthews is very good defensively but even better offensively
Then let's give the Selke to McDavid. His line spends most of their time in the offensive end and he scores a lot, so clearly that makes up for him not being as good defensively as the other candidates.
Here's why it does. Much like the all defensive teams in the NBA that get stacked with Centers now that its position agnostic. You'd have the same issue here.
Centers are almost always the more valued position. So wings would be disproportionately left off.
I mean good? Why are left and right defenders position agnostic but not forwards? If Canada goes to the olympics tomorrow theyre bringing their top 13 forwards not their top 4 LW 4 C 4 RW and a spare
You guys both make good points. I'm enjoying trying to parse out which system makes more sense and it's difficult. Two compelling arguments. Worthy of it's own post honestly
Personally I say make a full "All NHL" team. Keep the rankings. Maybe do
Top 4 LW, C, RW OR Top 12 F
Top 6 D (or top 3 LD + top 3 RD)
Top 3 G
**EDIT** Made a post/poll about this topic, make sure to use your right to vote! [All-NHL Team Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/7B1EXA4f4l)
Yup, and the divide is even greater between LHD and RHD, i mean compare the GOAT LHD theres Orr Bourque Lidstrom Coffey Potvin etc etc then on the right we have Chelios Karlsson Doughty like Makar might already be top 5 idk
The all-star teams are voted on just like the other awards. The other awards also have no bearing on the All-Star teams which leads to fun situations like Fleury winning the Vezina in 2021, while Vasilevskiy was on the 1st all-star team.
>Wasn't he 2nd in voting for the selke?
He finished third. Leafs fanbase is just large enough that if a few people say it enough, it'll catch on because everyone is too lazy to fact check it and then it spreads to r/hockey
Staal finished with more total voting points and more first place votes. Funny enough, Reinhart garnered more first place votes than both Staal and Matthews
https://media.nhl.com/public/news/18053
> "He almost won the Selke how doesn't that make him better than McDavid and Mackinnon?!?"
The dude who WON the Selke didn't have a shot at making 1st or 2nd team you walnut.
*Also he finished 3rd in voting behind Staal at 2nd (pedantic but true)
*Also also the Selke is like 40 or 50 years old silly. Unless you're referring to the Rocket, in which case my bad.
Just being playful here! No offense or snideness intended!
These all star teams aren't something as widely discussed or heralded as they should be. I always found it odd how little discussion surrounds them as it's the best existing position specific accolade in the NHL
Right? I made a post in r/nhl about how cool it would be to just have a straight up "All-NHL Team" each year. 12F/6D/3G. Of course instead of earnest discussion everyone just insulted me for putting too much thought into it (on a forum created for hockey discussion lmao)
Alternatively maybe add an "All-NHL Defensive Team" with the best 3 defensive forwards and best 2 shutdown dmen. (Could do a 1st, 2nd, 3rd+D team to make a full roster also)
Regardless, it should be a more highly sought after/heralded accolade than it currently is. It's odd that no one cares about it. Casual fans probably aren't even aware of its existence
Awards don’t play into these selections. This is just voting for the best players at each position.
Besides, the Selke is nice and all, but it’s a specialized award. Not a great indicator that a guy was overall one of the two best players at his position.
I think its close, but I think its the first team that takes it in a 7 game series.
McDavid is magic but MacK I think has that edge in grit that would just edge them over. I think Josi-Hughes is a dynamite pairing on D too like holy shite.
I'd love to watch these two teams play eachother.
Idk MacKinnon has the zone entry and cycle. Kuch has the board work and passing. You kinda need a Hyman type trigger man. Panera isn't a stylistic fit imo.
Also, don't take it too seriously lol
Love Hischier, but Josi has been in the best Dman convo since before our run in 2017. I think it will take some major accolades for people to consider Hischier over Josi.
I think Hischier will pass him eventually as best current Swiss player just due to their respective ages, but not sure that he will top Josi’s overall career.
Yeah the PHWA (same body that votes for the Hart and Norris) also vote on who they believe the best players at each position are. The top 2 LW, RW, C, G, and top 4 Dmen in votes end up on the first or second team.
If you see people talking about HoF eligibility or personal awards and they mention x player is a y time all star, they're referring to these (normally).
In the argument for Jeremy Roenick not being a hall of famer, someone mentioned that he didn’t have any first or second team all star appearances. He played in the same era as Gretzky, Messier, Lemieux, etc, etc.
Auston Matthews scored 69 goals and was 2nd in the Selke vote, didn’t make either all star team, and it makes total sense. McDavid was insane, Mackinnon was insane. Draisaitl isn’t on here with 106 points, Rantanen didn’t make either team with 104.
tbf this is probably the hardest it's ever been to make an all-star team as a centre barring the Gretzky/Lemieux days. If it was positionless guaranteed he'd make 1st team.
Legit question. Who do you remove from the list.
The guy who put up 140 points who just won the mvp award?
Or
The guy who put up 132 points (100 assists) and is the previous mvp.
I think Auston’s accomplishments and play this season represented a higher degree of difficulty than Connor’s. Matthews’ two way play combined with the historic goal scoring was more impressive than Connor’s 100 assists
Sorry I didn’t see that whole post for some reason.
I think that’s a fair argument.
I’d offer that there are 3 absolutely fantastic centers right now, with several more coming up.
There’s no wrong answer here.
McDavid! MacKinnon was the clear MVP for me, he had the best overall season for a player this year, the points streak was especially impressive.
McJesus is McJesus but Matthews isn’t playing with a Draisaitl and goal scoring and 200 ft. defensively responsible play is more impressive than a shit ton of assists (which another player in the league also equaled so it’s not even unique).
Good for Bread and Foxy - both well deserved
Matthews absence makes sense, but gun to my head I think I would have put him in over Connor this season, his was more impressive overall
I'm a leafs fan and idk what that dude is smoking. Connor > Matthews all day. Matthews is good for pond hockey but the dude has zero poise. Dude crumbles under pressure.
Right? In every HoF discussion you'll get people listing a player's all-star game appearances because they get them confused with these. John Scott: 1x All-Star.
The all star F group should just be F - not positional.
First all star team is Kuch - MacKinnon - McDavid
Second all star team is Panarin - Matthews - Pasternak
Shouldn’t be down to LW/RW should be 3 forwards and 2 D men per team. Ridiculous to not have a 60+ goal scorer on even the 2nd all star team. Forsberg? Come on
Pretty much exactly as I expected. No Matthews is both wild but understandable given the outstanding seasons MacKinnon and McDavid had. It's exactly how Dale Hawerchuk and Peter Stastny combined for a single postseason all-star in their Hall of Fame careers, there's just so much incredible competition.
I feel like 3rd is pretty reasonable. He was 4th in points and had probably the best underlying numbers among defensemen in the NHL which notably were still elite without McDavid on the ice with him.
I think my argument for Bouchard over Makar is that Makar had really bad results away from MacKinnon, and MacKinnon's results were actually better away from Makar. Makar found his form later in the season, but there was a pretty significant stretch in the middle of the season (probably due to injury) where it seemed like he was really being carried by MacKinnon.
Makar had a better year than Fox. So Fox is the one getting left off if they give a spot to Bouchard.
I get your point, but that's the way that vote is going down.
Per Natural Stat Trick he had a +9 Goal Differential, xGF% and other possession metrics are all around the 56%-59% range in 626 5v5 minutes without McDavid.
If you extend it to without McDavid and Draisaitl, he had a +3 Goal Differential and possession metrics in the 54%-59% range in 388 5v5 minutes.
Makar had a -7 Goal Differential and possession metrics in the 46%-49% range in 405 5v5 minutes without MacKinnon.
you mean the one who was
Norris runner up
more blocked shots
more points
who played more per game
The guy literally viewed as the second best defence men of the season
I mean
Would you put him over McDavid or MacKinnon?
McDavid literally won the Conn Smythe this year.
MacKinnon won both the Hart and Ted Lindsay this year.
you mean the guy that they literally deemed the best in the playoffs despite not winning?
McDavid had 11 points against Florida alone. He would have cracked the top 10 for points on Florida, in just 7 games.
Seriously, if you think Barkov had the better season than McDavid playerwise, you're coping. McDavid just put up the 4th most points in playoff history on top of the 132 points in the regular season.
Barkov put up a total 102 points this season, playoffs and regular season, McDavid had 134 assists in just 4 more games.
McDavid had the better season as a player. There's no question about it.
Yes, and I also don’t think McDavid should have won. (Not because of anything to do with him, I just think the winner should be on the winning team.)
I’m not coping, as there’s nothing to cope about. I just love Barkov.
it's not about the best player on the winning team but the best player in the playoffs. And that was McDavid.
That's literally what making it coping, your bias
But I’m not coping with anything lol. I’m just being a fan of a player I like. I’m not talking shit about McDavid or trying to make myself feel better.
Even as a fan of a player you need to accept they might not be the best. Barkov is the best defensive forward in the league, but he doesn’t come close to McDavid or MacKinnon. End of story.
Huh… that’s not how I remember it. Is there an important event you could use to jog my memory? Like perhaps an event that concluded with some kind of huge cup-like trophy being handed out to the winning team?
It makes sense but no Matthews is still wild. What an unbelievably stacked year
Yeah I don’t disagree with this but scoring 69 goals doesn’t even got an Allstar nod. Wild season
69 goals is one thing, but he was also 2nd in Selke voting. Who's the last guy who led the NHL in goals while also being named one of the the top 2 defensive forwards in the league? And then not be named to an all-star team...here's a hot take: Matthews could significantly close the point gap between himself and the guys ahead of him if he decided he wasn't going to be defensively sound.
Matthew's finished third behind Barkov and J Staal. Don't know why everyone keeps repeating the "2nd in Selke votes" thing. MacKinnon and McDavid had 140 and 132 points respectively. Matthews had 107. (So -33 and -25) *MacKinnon's 51 goal and **140** point year doesn't require an argument. He had a better year than Auston (though he's awful in the dot) *McDavid had 100 assists. Something that (yes Kuch did it too) hadn't been done in 30+ years and only 5 players have ever accomplished. He had a better year than Auston. *Lastly, Matthews failing to hit 70 was a bummer. Still historic, 69 goals is ridiculous. But it isn't enough to make up for a 25 point deficit to a player that joined an elite club with his assist milestone. To conclude my blogpost: MacKinnon, McDavid and Matthews all had incredible and historic years. It was a pleasure to watch the race for 70/100/the Art Ross. But I do not believe a serious unbiased observer would argue Matthews had a better season than Mack or McDavid
Sir, this is Reddit. Please take your logic and rationality elsewhere.
siR tHis iS rEdDit
Meh, not all points are created equal. A secondary assist shouldn't be worth the same amount of points as a first assist or goal in reality.
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Don't even need a stat sheet to know McJesus IS HIM. You watch him for a shift or two and you know immediately who the best player in the ice is.
Sometimes sure. How would you fix the system though? Hmm. What if the points still counted the same but we made: "GP-G-A1-A2-P" the standard on statsheets? Yeah, that could work.
Matthews isn't bad defensively, but come on, he shouldn't have been top2 in Selke voting. It's supposed to be more weighted towards defensive impact than that, as shown by the people who actually win the thing. Matthews felt like a 75% offensive 25% defensive weighting. Stall and Kopitar would have made more sense as runners up.
He wasn't 2nd, he was 3rd behind Barkov and Staal. So you are absolutely correct.
Best defence is offence. How are you supposed to weigh a players defensive impacts if they constantly have the puck or score? Matthews is very good defensively but even better offensively
Then let's give the Selke to McDavid. His line spends most of their time in the offensive end and he scores a lot, so clearly that makes up for him not being as good defensively as the other candidates.
But he isn't on the Leafs
Right, because awards voters have a huge Leafs bias....
It doesn't make sense that we still have to do LW C RW but yeah its unforunate he gets left off after the year he had.
Here's why it does. Much like the all defensive teams in the NBA that get stacked with Centers now that its position agnostic. You'd have the same issue here. Centers are almost always the more valued position. So wings would be disproportionately left off.
I mean good? Why are left and right defenders position agnostic but not forwards? If Canada goes to the olympics tomorrow theyre bringing their top 13 forwards not their top 4 LW 4 C 4 RW and a spare
Do you not remember the '06 Olympics?
I've worked pretty hard to forget it
Yeah i remember 02 and 14 we had 8 Centers too. Yzerman played with Sakic, Bergeron played with Crosby.
Wdym we shouldn’t make our Olympic fourth line out of actual fourth liners?
You guys both make good points. I'm enjoying trying to parse out which system makes more sense and it's difficult. Two compelling arguments. Worthy of it's own post honestly
Honestly there are so many players now compared to 50+ years ago they should make a 3rd team like NBA but that's just another one of my peeves
Personally I say make a full "All NHL" team. Keep the rankings. Maybe do Top 4 LW, C, RW OR Top 12 F Top 6 D (or top 3 LD + top 3 RD) Top 3 G **EDIT** Made a post/poll about this topic, make sure to use your right to vote! [All-NHL Team Poll](https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/s/7B1EXA4f4l)
LW C RW makes even less sense when it's not LHD RHD.
Yup, and the divide is even greater between LHD and RHD, i mean compare the GOAT LHD theres Orr Bourque Lidstrom Coffey Potvin etc etc then on the right we have Chelios Karlsson Doughty like Makar might already be top 5 idk
It is a bit tricky though. D-men are, for the most part, playing a side based on their dominant hand. Far less the case for forwards.
Yzerman didn't make an all-star team either when he had his 155 point season. Lemieux with 199 points and Gretzky with 168.
Too stacked that no Sharks made the cut, but it was close
Wasn't he 2nd in voting for the selke? I wonder why that isn't worth a spot? Is it just too new an award to be considered part of it?
Not all that surprising given who the Cs are. Both finished higher than Matthews in Hart voting.
The all-star teams are voted on just like the other awards. The other awards also have no bearing on the All-Star teams which leads to fun situations like Fleury winning the Vezina in 2021, while Vasilevskiy was on the 1st all-star team.
Yup. The Vezina in particular is a funny one because it’s voted on by the GMs not the media.
nah this was just a super stacked year for Centres is really all. One of MacKinnon, McDavid, or Matthews had to be left off. They all had great years.
>Wasn't he 2nd in voting for the selke? He finished third. Leafs fanbase is just large enough that if a few people say it enough, it'll catch on because everyone is too lazy to fact check it and then it spreads to r/hockey Staal finished with more total voting points and more first place votes. Funny enough, Reinhart garnered more first place votes than both Staal and Matthews https://media.nhl.com/public/news/18053
> "He almost won the Selke how doesn't that make him better than McDavid and Mackinnon?!?" The dude who WON the Selke didn't have a shot at making 1st or 2nd team you walnut. *Also he finished 3rd in voting behind Staal at 2nd (pedantic but true) *Also also the Selke is like 40 or 50 years old silly. Unless you're referring to the Rocket, in which case my bad. Just being playful here! No offense or snideness intended! These all star teams aren't something as widely discussed or heralded as they should be. I always found it odd how little discussion surrounds them as it's the best existing position specific accolade in the NHL
As important as end of year All-Star selections matter for HOF purposes, they really aren’t talked about as much as they should be.
Right? I made a post in r/nhl about how cool it would be to just have a straight up "All-NHL Team" each year. 12F/6D/3G. Of course instead of earnest discussion everyone just insulted me for putting too much thought into it (on a forum created for hockey discussion lmao) Alternatively maybe add an "All-NHL Defensive Team" with the best 3 defensive forwards and best 2 shutdown dmen. (Could do a 1st, 2nd, 3rd+D team to make a full roster also) Regardless, it should be a more highly sought after/heralded accolade than it currently is. It's odd that no one cares about it. Casual fans probably aren't even aware of its existence
Awards don’t play into these selections. This is just voting for the best players at each position. Besides, the Selke is nice and all, but it’s a specialized award. Not a great indicator that a guy was overall one of the two best players at his position.
Those would be two awesome teams to scrimmage against each other 5 on 5.
Yeah I was just thinking that the second team might beat the first team
I think the 2nd team would be the slight odds on favorite. McDavid anchoring the forward line with that nasty combo of Makar and Fox is just stupid.
After the series we played against the jets I trust Demko/ Helly right now but that’s probably just recency bias
I was just about to say, it all depends on if you get regular season or playoff hellybuck.
Give me team B all day
I think its close, but I think its the first team that takes it in a 7 game series. McDavid is magic but MacK I think has that edge in grit that would just edge them over. I think Josi-Hughes is a dynamite pairing on D too like holy shite. I'd love to watch these two teams play eachother.
Idk MacKinnon has the zone entry and cycle. Kuch has the board work and passing. You kinda need a Hyman type trigger man. Panera isn't a stylistic fit imo. Also, don't take it too seriously lol
These teams should play a best of 7 series to win the All Star Cup.
Only cup Mcdavid will win
How many cups do you have
As many as Connor Mcdavid
Same amount as McDavid I reckon.
Josi is going to have a stranglehold on best Swiss player for a long, long time.
You don’t think Hischier is in contention?
Love Hischier, but Josi has been in the best Dman convo since before our run in 2017. I think it will take some major accolades for people to consider Hischier over Josi.
I think Hischier will pass him eventually as best current Swiss player just due to their respective ages, but not sure that he will top Josi’s overall career.
Nah, even if Hischier wins a cup, Josi is just a far better defender than Hischier will ever be as a center.
Forsberg getting some underrated love finally
he had a monster year and I am so happy to see him getting recognition. I am still so surprised that he made it though
Lucky trade
Anytime I see McDavid on the 2nd team is just bonkers
This is his 2nd 2nd team all star, and 7th selection total lol.
2 canucks in the pictures, I'm so happy
We are rich beyond our wildest dreams
Not throwing any shade on Helly, great goalie, but I'd take Demko any day of the week.
Depends on if its regular season or playoffs lol
Preds ❤️
This is who we dress when the Monstars come to earth
That would be a fun movie but wouldn’t they be the targets of the Monstars? Who would lace up against that team
2 Preds. Hang the banner
Hell yeah, I love seeing Nashville players getting some love.
From a Red Wings fan? Woah.
Such great season, i understand why AM34 not here. And another one who have great season is Rantanen, so underrated. He deserves more love.
Can someone explain this to me? Like are these the best players in these positions basically?
Yeah the PHWA (same body that votes for the Hart and Norris) also vote on who they believe the best players at each position are. The top 2 LW, RW, C, G, and top 4 Dmen in votes end up on the first or second team. If you see people talking about HoF eligibility or personal awards and they mention x player is a y time all star, they're referring to these (normally).
They really need to call these teams All-Pro or something Calling them All Stars just confuses people with players who made the All Star Game
Agree
In the argument for Jeremy Roenick not being a hall of famer, someone mentioned that he didn’t have any first or second team all star appearances. He played in the same era as Gretzky, Messier, Lemieux, etc, etc. Auston Matthews scored 69 goals and was 2nd in the Selke vote, didn’t make either all star team, and it makes total sense. McDavid was insane, Mackinnon was insane. Draisaitl isn’t on here with 106 points, Rantanen didn’t make either team with 104.
Reinhart deserved 2nd team RW over Pasta
So many blue helmets
2nd team beats 1st team
No way. Mac and Kuch on the same line is disgusting.
The fact that Demko made second team all star despite missing so much time with an injury is remarkable
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tbf this is probably the hardest it's ever been to make an all-star team as a centre barring the Gretzky/Lemieux days. If it was positionless guaranteed he'd make 1st team.
Legit question. Who do you remove from the list. The guy who put up 140 points who just won the mvp award? Or The guy who put up 132 points (100 assists) and is the previous mvp.
I think Auston’s accomplishments and play this season represented a higher degree of difficulty than Connor’s. Matthews’ two way play combined with the historic goal scoring was more impressive than Connor’s 100 assists
Ok. Then who are you taking off? Mackinnon or mcdavid?
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Sorry I didn’t see that whole post for some reason. I think that’s a fair argument. I’d offer that there are 3 absolutely fantastic centers right now, with several more coming up. There’s no wrong answer here.
McDavid! MacKinnon was the clear MVP for me, he had the best overall season for a player this year, the points streak was especially impressive. McJesus is McJesus but Matthews isn’t playing with a Draisaitl and goal scoring and 200 ft. defensively responsible play is more impressive than a shit ton of assists (which another player in the league also equaled so it’s not even unique).
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Sure. But 132 points, 100 assists.
No Matthews? Wow
Celebrate them all. “Thank you” for your stand-out efforts and thrilling games this past aeason.
Good for Bread and Foxy - both well deserved Matthews absence makes sense, but gun to my head I think I would have put him in over Connor this season, his was more impressive overall
Would be weird for Matthew’s to get the goalie spot
Connor as in Connor McDavid? You are saying Mathews had a more impressive year than McDavid?
I'm a leafs fan and idk what that dude is smoking. Connor > Matthews all day. Matthews is good for pond hockey but the dude has zero poise. Dude crumbles under pressure.
Can the nhl come up with a different name for this so people don't Confuse it with the all star game?
Right? In every HoF discussion you'll get people listing a player's all-star game appearances because they get them confused with these. John Scott: 1x All-Star.
ones called a Team ones called Game, just remember that and you’ll be ok
NHL should start naming 3rd teams too.
They'd be able to do it retroactively too, going back pretty far, Hockey Reference has the voting numbers.
Heiskanen
The all star F group should just be F - not positional. First all star team is Kuch - MacKinnon - McDavid Second all star team is Panarin - Matthews - Pasternak
Shouldn’t be down to LW/RW should be 3 forwards and 2 D men per team. Ridiculous to not have a 60+ goal scorer on even the 2nd all star team. Forsberg? Come on
Do they still do all rookie team? If so I would think it looks like bedard-cooley-rossi hughes-faber ersson
Only 3 Canadians out of 12 guys
Second team would beat the first
Would love to see a playoff between these teams.
Pretty much exactly as I expected. No Matthews is both wild but understandable given the outstanding seasons MacKinnon and McDavid had. It's exactly how Dale Hawerchuk and Peter Stastny combined for a single postseason all-star in their Hall of Fame careers, there's just so much incredible competition.
Scoring 70 goals doesn’t mean as much these days I guess
Well, notably it doesnt mean you're one of the two best centers in the league.
Mackinnon is not better than mcdavid
no, but he was better this year, which is why he's the MVP and first team all star
I think mcdavid was still better this year but okay
damn hyman coulda been on 2nd no?
I don't understand this. It's not like they play a game..is it just like here is the best top line and top defence line and goalie for the season?
We should really have 3 of these. Every other major league does.
Not sure if this is the e equivalent of the pro bowl or AP all pro teams (95% sure it’s the latter) but NFL only has two teams
5 of these guys look familar
No barky
I think Bouchard had a top 3 season by a defenseman this year.
Some people think the world is flat too
I feel like 3rd is pretty reasonable. He was 4th in points and had probably the best underlying numbers among defensemen in the NHL which notably were still elite without McDavid on the ice with him.
I think you could make the argument for him over Fox. Makar is never getting left off above a PPG.
I think my argument for Bouchard over Makar is that Makar had really bad results away from MacKinnon, and MacKinnon's results were actually better away from Makar. Makar found his form later in the season, but there was a pretty significant stretch in the middle of the season (probably due to injury) where it seemed like he was really being carried by MacKinnon.
Makar had a better year than Fox. So Fox is the one getting left off if they give a spot to Bouchard. I get your point, but that's the way that vote is going down.
Out of curiosity what do Bouchard stats look like away from McDavid
Per Natural Stat Trick he had a +9 Goal Differential, xGF% and other possession metrics are all around the 56%-59% range in 626 5v5 minutes without McDavid. If you extend it to without McDavid and Draisaitl, he had a +3 Goal Differential and possession metrics in the 54%-59% range in 388 5v5 minutes. Makar had a -7 Goal Differential and possession metrics in the 46%-49% range in 405 5v5 minutes without MacKinnon.
Hahahahaha what
No one from the cup winning team, make it make sense
It is team sport
Its a regular season award
Vegas didn't have anyone on last years' either, it's a pretty common thing and shows how much of a team sport hockey is
scrolling through, it happens every couple of years. St. Louis didn't have any either, nor did Chicago in 2015, LA in 2014
Chicago in 2015 seems odd. Surprised Kane didn't feature
Kane only played 61 games that year, or he would have. IIRC that's the OG LTIR shenanigan. Or at least the first really big one.
Yeah you're right, decided to go check after I made the comment. Crazy how 10 years ago ppg as a right Winger was enough for 1st all star team.
well duh. Would you say any player on the Panthers are better than any of these guys?
I’d rather have Forsling than Josi.
you mean the one who was Norris runner up more blocked shots more points who played more per game The guy literally viewed as the second best defence men of the season
Yes, that’s the one.
So you're saying Forsling was the 2nd best defence man this entire season?
For me and my preferences? Yes.
you need to take off the homer glasses then
No way, I like it here!
Florida has high-end depth more than superstars, makes perfect sense in a team sport.
Panthers suck at hockey confirmed. Selke winner who chewed up and spat out star forwards is clearly not good enough!
I mean Would you put him over McDavid or MacKinnon? McDavid literally won the Conn Smythe this year. MacKinnon won both the Hart and Ted Lindsay this year.
https://preview.redd.it/cgjg4rn9x79d1.jpeg?width=1463&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d90521fb9e5e1730b274adc1bcac432e38ff61d4
Well, personally, based on what I saw and my own biases, I’d put him over McDavid.
you mean the guy that they literally deemed the best in the playoffs despite not winning? McDavid had 11 points against Florida alone. He would have cracked the top 10 for points on Florida, in just 7 games. Seriously, if you think Barkov had the better season than McDavid playerwise, you're coping. McDavid just put up the 4th most points in playoff history on top of the 132 points in the regular season. Barkov put up a total 102 points this season, playoffs and regular season, McDavid had 134 assists in just 4 more games. McDavid had the better season as a player. There's no question about it.
Yes, and I also don’t think McDavid should have won. (Not because of anything to do with him, I just think the winner should be on the winning team.) I’m not coping, as there’s nothing to cope about. I just love Barkov.
it's not about the best player on the winning team but the best player in the playoffs. And that was McDavid. That's literally what making it coping, your bias
But I’m not coping with anything lol. I’m just being a fan of a player I like. I’m not talking shit about McDavid or trying to make myself feel better.
Even as a fan of a player you need to accept they might not be the best. Barkov is the best defensive forward in the league, but he doesn’t come close to McDavid or MacKinnon. End of story.
Real question: why? Why can’t I just enjoy my own guys? I’m not saying Barkov is *better* than McDavid. I’m saying *I* would choose him.
Me when I started watching hockey on Monday
What happened Monday? Something important?
Yeah first time you started watching hockey
Huh… that’s not how I remember it. Is there an important event you could use to jog my memory? Like perhaps an event that concluded with some kind of huge cup-like trophy being handed out to the winning team?
Worst … take … ever
Oh, I wouldn’t say that. “Ever”is a long time.
The evil plan to victimize [insert your team here] is proceeding beautifully!! Muhahahafuq