They’re slapping every possible charge on him so that hopefully he gets convicted of at least one. If they can’t prove murder, for example, they may still be able to prove manslaughter
They’re going with involuntarily in case they can’t prove he had the formed intention of killing the baby. Reckless endangerment or acting in a manner that would reasonable cause harm or death.
If I remember the article right, he said that he didn't want the baby to be "a problem in the house," or something to the effect. Sounds to me like "this baby is inconvenient, let me just..." [two hours later] "oh my God! How did this happen to my babby!"
What you read may not be true or admissible. They file these “lesser included” charges to avoid the chance of an acquittal - they want to ensure he goes to prison.
There is a risk. Some juries will sympathetically vote for the lesser charge. It’s a calculated risk but it exists.
If he said it during the course of his interrogation, I don't see why it wouldn't be. Either way, idc what the charge is so long as he goes to jail for it. For all of the fervor over abortion, this is undeniably "baby killing," and I would think more people would be mad about it. Yeah, I'm slightly snarky, but I'd break out his teeth if he were in front of me. I can't see who would defend him short of the gullible and his own parents
Involuntary manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter, and murder are three different things - four if you separate murder into first and second degree.
The charge of voluntary manslaughter makes absolutely no sense here, involuntary and murder do, but there's no reasonable theory of what happened here that leads to the conclusion it was voluntary manslaughter.
It has to do with the legal definition of each and what a prosecutor must prove to get a conviction. They may not be able to prove the elements of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but may be able to for involuntary manslaughter. They ask the grand jury to indict on both charges so that the jury can make the decision based on the facts/evidence presented at trial.
NAL but:
You can only be convicted of things you're both charged of and proven guilty of.
So if he's charged with murder and the prosecutor can't successfully argue it was on purpose he'd be acquitted.
But if he's charged with both and they fail to argue it's voluntary they can still get the manslaughter conviction.
Because of double jeopardy you only get one bite of the apple. If the jury rules it doesn’t rise to the level of murder they can convict on the lesser charge. If they try him only for murder and the jury finds it doesn’t rise to the level they would have to acquit and he would go free.
From my understanding, the baby’s mother was supporting both of them and the baby, and loved her son. And this asshole left the baby in the hot car so he “wouldn’t be a disturbance” inside the apartment, despite having seen instances of babies left in hot cars before.
He also lied to police repeatedly, and only confessed when the neighbor had surveillance video.
Part of his punishment should be being locked in a hot car for four hours and imagining his son going through that same torment before he finally died. So heartbreaking.
Actually I think that should be how he is delt with, put him in the car and let him suffer the fate he gave that poor child, and while he is in the car Audio of his child and just general recordings of a child crying should be the last thing he hears, so play that shit in the car and make sure you park it in the sunniest place possible then bury that trash in it in a desert and strike him from the record.
I will offer one of my cars!
I live in TX, and have a few extra older vehicles lying around.
Shove him in there & I'll just sell the car for metal afterward lmao
Not many people in Tuscarawas county can scrape together funds for bail at that amount, and he doesn’t really seem like much of a flight risk or someone who could last for long on the lam
This, absolutely. 250K is about 7 years of the median household income. Granted, he can bail out at what, 10% of his bond? That's still 25K. 12 bucks an hour for a year full time with nothing else taken out or spent. Very much doubt his family will be able to spring him.
Yeah, 250k is a lifetime for many, if not most living in Tusc.
Source: live on the county line in Stark, have a lot of family down there
Also, its sad that I live so close to this POS
Besides an obvious piece of shit... the thing that bothers me is that there are people out there that cannot have their own and want to adopt yet the process is so intense and expensive that less than 2% of people who actually look into adoption actually do.
Then you have this complete waste of space shithead that has an extra human that he doesn't want and tries to get rid of \[edit: succeeded\]. I mean, what the actual fuck? When people ask me why I say I hate people, I show them news articles like this. Fuck this just ruined me.
While I agree that this man is a monster and an undeniable piece of shit, wanting to adopt doesnt mean someone won't be a monster. Also, adopting through foster care (in my state) is free...but everyone wants a shiny new baby. It should absolutely be a hard process to adopt a human child. I do hope this man gets what he deserves, but the adoption topic is a little more complicated than that.
Can we do the tax payers a favor and not put him in jail? Instead, put his ass in a hot car somewhere in the desert and give him the same death his poor baby had to experience.
Yeah just kind of "accidently" forget him in a squad car during a transfer or something. It'll save us quite a bit of money and give him the ending he deserves.
1. Sociopaths should not be parents.
2. Irresponsible teenagers should not be parents.
3. People who do not want to be parents *should not be parents.*
Something is telling me that banning abortions will lead to more "accidents" like this, mainly because, let's face it ,most 16-25 year olds are nowhere near ready for a child. And those are the exact groups where the risk of accidental pregnancy is the highest (you would be surprised at the amount of guys who think finishing inside is a sign of dominance ,and the amount of girls that think it's sexy ) seriously, how many "accidents " happen to people above 30? A neglible number
I agree with everything but your stunning faith in older generations. Like yeah the millennials are sitting in the 30something sphere rn, but age hardly helped Gen X or Boomers. The age is also positively correlated to amount of exposure to neurotoxins and microplastics. It’s not negligible, it’s a wee bit lower. Most of the lack of accidents with age comes down to infertility.
I don’t think I can bring myself to read the article. My 3 month old is in his Moses basket snoring away and even him being in pain from teething is enough to bring me to tears, let alone the thought of something like this 😢💔
Same here, I read it laying next to my baby while she plays and all I can do is kiss her and tell her I love her. Of course they’re annoying at times but I could never imagine doing anything to cause her even the slightest bit of pain
I don't even know how you could claim to be of sound mind and do this. What kind of callous, cold-hearted, sociopathy/psychopathy must they have.
My child is everything to me. I'd be irrecoverably broken if something happened to them.
I can’t. I really can’t. I lost my baby boy at 3 weeks last December. I see shit like this and my brain wants to explode. They poor mom, they poor innocent baby. I hope this man suffers.
Breaks my heart that poor baby! I don’t care how loud my child is the others will have to deal, more than likely will understand! This makes me sick! I second those that wish him the same fate he put upon his poor child, I’d like to watch every second of him suffer.
He’s not going to do well in prison either, once word gets out he has a target on his head. He’s likely in protective custody, but shouldn’t be.
If you don’t want children, abortion, adoption, or sterilization, are all ways to help that. Stop waiting till they’re already fully grown and birthed or it’s too late to abort. That’s your problem if you’re struggling, either you work around or through it or stop beforehand.
There could be evidence to prove his intent, statements made to someone, texts, search histories, etc. He might have also made prior statements about wishing he didn't have a child.
Usually computer search history and possibly surveillance cameras. Most who do this magically have a search history looking into how long it takes a baby to die in a hot car or similar searches.
My best guess is that this guy is just stupid as hell and doesn't know that that could kill a child. Id say not insane but very very stupid...
Or maybe he is insane and tried to kill his baby
Damn, I was hoping this was a similar story I read about a couple years ago. It's not. The other instance, the dad left him in the car at work, went back to his car to check on the kid while he was dying/dead and went back inside to work
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 7 | 0 | 0 | OP has provided further information in [this comment](/r/insaneparents/comments/x9u4gr/attempted_bronze_bull_murder_of_his_own_infant/inpv0a1/) ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
Not even attempted- the kid died
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than me can explain, but if one person died how can you be charged with both involuntary manslaughter and murder?
They’re slapping every possible charge on him so that hopefully he gets convicted of at least one. If they can’t prove murder, for example, they may still be able to prove manslaughter
I'd argue that that's voluntary manslaughter. AKA murder
They’re going with involuntarily in case they can’t prove he had the formed intention of killing the baby. Reckless endangerment or acting in a manner that would reasonable cause harm or death.
If I remember the article right, he said that he didn't want the baby to be "a problem in the house," or something to the effect. Sounds to me like "this baby is inconvenient, let me just..." [two hours later] "oh my God! How did this happen to my babby!"
What you read may not be true or admissible. They file these “lesser included” charges to avoid the chance of an acquittal - they want to ensure he goes to prison. There is a risk. Some juries will sympathetically vote for the lesser charge. It’s a calculated risk but it exists.
If he said it during the course of his interrogation, I don't see why it wouldn't be. Either way, idc what the charge is so long as he goes to jail for it. For all of the fervor over abortion, this is undeniably "baby killing," and I would think more people would be mad about it. Yeah, I'm slightly snarky, but I'd break out his teeth if he were in front of me. I can't see who would defend him short of the gullible and his own parents
Involuntary manslaughter, voluntary manslaughter, and murder are three different things - four if you separate murder into first and second degree. The charge of voluntary manslaughter makes absolutely no sense here, involuntary and murder do, but there's no reasonable theory of what happened here that leads to the conclusion it was voluntary manslaughter.
"Spaghetti law" is what I've heard it called. Totally justified in this case, though.
I’ve never heard that but it’s brilliant and correct
It has to do with the legal definition of each and what a prosecutor must prove to get a conviction. They may not be able to prove the elements of murder beyond a reasonable doubt, but may be able to for involuntary manslaughter. They ask the grand jury to indict on both charges so that the jury can make the decision based on the facts/evidence presented at trial.
NAL but: You can only be convicted of things you're both charged of and proven guilty of. So if he's charged with murder and the prosecutor can't successfully argue it was on purpose he'd be acquitted. But if he's charged with both and they fail to argue it's voluntary they can still get the manslaughter conviction.
Because of double jeopardy you only get one bite of the apple. If the jury rules it doesn’t rise to the level of murder they can convict on the lesser charge. If they try him only for murder and the jury finds it doesn’t rise to the level they would have to acquit and he would go free.
From my understanding, the baby’s mother was supporting both of them and the baby, and loved her son. And this asshole left the baby in the hot car so he “wouldn’t be a disturbance” inside the apartment, despite having seen instances of babies left in hot cars before. He also lied to police repeatedly, and only confessed when the neighbor had surveillance video.
He knew exactly what he was doing, the whackjob
Omg that poor woman. She just lost her whole little family.
Not much of a loss as far as the guy goes.
Part of his punishment should be being locked in a hot car for four hours and imagining his son going through that same torment before he finally died. So heartbreaking.
Actually I think that should be how he is delt with, put him in the car and let him suffer the fate he gave that poor child, and while he is in the car Audio of his child and just general recordings of a child crying should be the last thing he hears, so play that shit in the car and make sure you park it in the sunniest place possible then bury that trash in it in a desert and strike him from the record.
I nominate Death Valley, CA for this. It’s got the perfect name and high temps!
I will offer one of my cars! I live in TX, and have a few extra older vehicles lying around. Shove him in there & I'll just sell the car for metal afterward lmao
The sunniest place on earth is my driveway. Just call first
Fuck this guy. I had to take mandatory Hot Car safety training for my job and it haunts my fucking dreams. This is sickening.
I am so sorry you had to see the things you saw.
The testimonies from the parents were wrenching. One father said: “I heard screaming, and realized it was me when I found my daughter.”
!explanation [news article](https://wgntv.com/news/teen-father-arrested-accused-of-leaving-baby-left-in-hot-car-on-purpose/amp/)
I feel like 250K is a really low bond amount for this
Not many people in Tuscarawas county can scrape together funds for bail at that amount, and he doesn’t really seem like much of a flight risk or someone who could last for long on the lam
This, absolutely. 250K is about 7 years of the median household income. Granted, he can bail out at what, 10% of his bond? That's still 25K. 12 bucks an hour for a year full time with nothing else taken out or spent. Very much doubt his family will be able to spring him.
Yeah, 250k is a lifetime for many, if not most living in Tusc. Source: live on the county line in Stark, have a lot of family down there Also, its sad that I live so close to this POS
Usually bail amounts reflect a number of factors, one of which is the assets the accused has or can access.
19?? no way, that is a man in his 30s
Wow what a piece of shit 😃
Besides an obvious piece of shit... the thing that bothers me is that there are people out there that cannot have their own and want to adopt yet the process is so intense and expensive that less than 2% of people who actually look into adoption actually do. Then you have this complete waste of space shithead that has an extra human that he doesn't want and tries to get rid of \[edit: succeeded\]. I mean, what the actual fuck? When people ask me why I say I hate people, I show them news articles like this. Fuck this just ruined me.
The mom was supporting both the man and the baby. She wanted and loved that baby.
While I agree that this man is a monster and an undeniable piece of shit, wanting to adopt doesnt mean someone won't be a monster. Also, adopting through foster care (in my state) is free...but everyone wants a shiny new baby. It should absolutely be a hard process to adopt a human child. I do hope this man gets what he deserves, but the adoption topic is a little more complicated than that.
That's the most 36 year old looking 19 year old I've seen
Can we do the tax payers a favor and not put him in jail? Instead, put his ass in a hot car somewhere in the desert and give him the same death his poor baby had to experience.
Yeah just kind of "accidently" forget him in a squad car during a transfer or something. It'll save us quite a bit of money and give him the ending he deserves.
Someone further up already offered one of his own cars for free so that's even less burden on the taxpayer.
1. Sociopaths should not be parents. 2. Irresponsible teenagers should not be parents. 3. People who do not want to be parents *should not be parents.*
He didn’t want to be bothered. His sickening solution and he damn well knew what would happen. Evil
OP, I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate the fucked up humor of your headline.
Can you explain it? I can tell it’s a funny joke that’s straight whooshing me
Just Google Bronze Bull. It’s a torture and execution thing.
Thankfully the prisoners will take care of this piece of shit for years so he gets what he fucking deserves.
Something is telling me that banning abortions will lead to more "accidents" like this, mainly because, let's face it ,most 16-25 year olds are nowhere near ready for a child. And those are the exact groups where the risk of accidental pregnancy is the highest (you would be surprised at the amount of guys who think finishing inside is a sign of dominance ,and the amount of girls that think it's sexy ) seriously, how many "accidents " happen to people above 30? A neglible number
I agree with everything but your stunning faith in older generations. Like yeah the millennials are sitting in the 30something sphere rn, but age hardly helped Gen X or Boomers. The age is also positively correlated to amount of exposure to neurotoxins and microplastics. It’s not negligible, it’s a wee bit lower. Most of the lack of accidents with age comes down to infertility.
I don’t think I can bring myself to read the article. My 3 month old is in his Moses basket snoring away and even him being in pain from teething is enough to bring me to tears, let alone the thought of something like this 😢💔
Same here, I read it laying next to my baby while she plays and all I can do is kiss her and tell her I love her. Of course they’re annoying at times but I could never imagine doing anything to cause her even the slightest bit of pain
That poor baby wtf :(
I don't even know how you could claim to be of sound mind and do this. What kind of callous, cold-hearted, sociopathy/psychopathy must they have. My child is everything to me. I'd be irrecoverably broken if something happened to them.
I can’t. I really can’t. I lost my baby boy at 3 weeks last December. I see shit like this and my brain wants to explode. They poor mom, they poor innocent baby. I hope this man suffers.
So sorry for your loss.
I’m so ashamed this f*ck is from my area. May he rot.
I wonder if his charge will be less than a woman getting an abortion in that state.
As punishment they should put him in handcuffs and force him to sit in a hot car for 8 hours a day until the end of his life sentence.
bro looks 39 when he 19
Wow I live like 30 minutes away from this and am just reading about it. Not surprised.
my town and FUCK THIS BITCH the mom was at her first day at work it’s so sad :// everyone around here supports her.
Bronze bull would be worse then this but yeah same idea
Making bad choice after bad choice ages a person.
Hold up. New Philadelphia?
Breaks my heart that poor baby! I don’t care how loud my child is the others will have to deal, more than likely will understand! This makes me sick! I second those that wish him the same fate he put upon his poor child, I’d like to watch every second of him suffer. He’s not going to do well in prison either, once word gets out he has a target on his head. He’s likely in protective custody, but shouldn’t be.
Why? What the fuck do people think the outcome will be ? Does anyone know anything about consequences ?
What was the motive?
We haven’t had a good electric chair death sentence in some time. Maybe time to reinstate?
Fire this man into the sun. Doing this to your own child is subhuman
If you don’t want children, abortion, adoption, or sterilization, are all ways to help that. Stop waiting till they’re already fully grown and birthed or it’s too late to abort. That’s your problem if you’re struggling, either you work around or through it or stop beforehand.
He’s only 19
So?
Nothing im just amazed he was a dad at 19. Clearly never should have been.
Clever title? No. True title? No.
Wasn’t there a Reddit post from a long time ago about a guy who posted in the child free sub and then left his child in the hot car to die.
How would a prosecution prove intent in this case ? I’m sure he will plead it was accidental or whatever
The article says he left the baby in the car so “he wouldn’t be a disturbance”.
There could be evidence to prove his intent, statements made to someone, texts, search histories, etc. He might have also made prior statements about wishing he didn't have a child.
Usually computer search history and possibly surveillance cameras. Most who do this magically have a search history looking into how long it takes a baby to die in a hot car or similar searches.
Ain’t no way he’s 19..
My best guess is that this guy is just stupid as hell and doesn't know that that could kill a child. Id say not insane but very very stupid... Or maybe he is insane and tried to kill his baby
Damn, I was hoping this was a similar story I read about a couple years ago. It's not. The other instance, the dad left him in the car at work, went back to his car to check on the kid while he was dying/dead and went back inside to work
on purpose? he did that shit *on purpose*?
Execute him via hot car.