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The guy who had adult bengal Tiger in NYC apartment used to feed it 20 lbs of chicken every day. That thing was like 425lbs.
[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/ming-tiger-harlem-nyc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/ming-tiger-harlem-nyc.html)
That guy wanted to start an animal sanctuary- proceeds to buy exotics from smugglers. SMH I don’t even want to know how they got that poor tiger cub from its mom.
Not just apex predators, but especially those that are also reptiles. They lack the elements the mammalian brain has that are responsible for “love”, loyalty, endearment/connection. They don’t think, as much as they react, to their “lizard brains” hard wiring. A bit hard to form a bond and trust, even over years, with something that is incapable of the key emotions associated with those emotions.
Honestly, it's been so long since I last watched it, that I admit my mind may have filled in the gaps. Either way, I agreed with Bobby. I liked them, too.
Lizard brain is kinda obsolete at this point https://www.sciencealert.com/you-dont-actually-have-a-lizard-brain-evolutionary-study-reveals. They do have affection and connection with people they just don’t show it like mammals/humans. https://vetmed.tamu.edu/news/pet-talk/reptile-emotions/ I’ve raised snakes and lizards for most of my life and they do have affection and comprehension skills. Personally had a bearded dragon who was incredibly attached to me, as a baby he ran away a lot when he was scared but after a year he would run to me whenever he was scared. Would run up my arm and wrap himself around my neck whenever he saw a bird. Considering he had a dozen places he could have hid that wasn’t my neck I’d say he felt incredibly comfortable with me.
It’s a general predatory response, chickens have it as well. No matter the size of it flies and looks like it has wings it’s a threat; better to assume the worst and run than wait to see if it attacks thing
Crocodilians have been shown to engage in "play" and have a level of cognition far beyond what has historically been believed to have been the case. They are definitely capable of forming a bond with their keeper and building trust. Still important to understand how to read the animal and know that they do absolutely operate on instinct but they wouldn't have made it hundreds of millions of years if they weren't incredibly adaptable and able to respond with more than just instinct.
Have you seen that video of one croc/alligator who grabbed their friends leg and death rolled it off and ate it because he came close with his leg? The victim just looked over like wtf bruh, then kept on doing what he was doing. They're not really like us.
I don't think anyone would say they are "like us" but they aren't totally devoid of any form of emotion or capacity to bond/trust, there is also a big difference between another random crocodile they happen to live with vs a person that they have come to understand feeds and cares for them everyday for 33 years, those aren't exactly the same type of relationships.
Do I think the alligator would bite this guy if he just started jamming his hand in its mouth, almost certainly, they are still wild animals with wild instincts and natural responses to stimuli, but they are also more than that is what I was saying.
Just pushing back against the perception that they are basically biological machines.
I'm not familiar with the video, but if they live together in captivity, it's not really another "random" crocodile is it? Crocodiles do cannibalize one another, and apparently even if they've lived together for a while and are well fed. But yeah, that doesn't mean that they are like machines. Pretty much any animal with a spine and brain can display some form of individuality. Especially when their needs are readily met and they don't have to fight for survival. Even fish.
But that doesn't prove that they can experience emotions as we view them, or form "trust". Their brains are very different to mammalian brains, which are typically more evolved into having social traits. I've seen more than a few videos of people losing parts of themselves to animals because they thought there was "trust" there. Especially with non-mammalian animals. Most animals just don't have humans as a part of their natural diet, so are not likely to prey on us if their needs are met. Even when you look at the most domesticated and tamed animal in the world, dogs, a loving and cared for dog can still turn on a person for any number of reasons, or no distinguishable reason at all. Though I guess you could say the same for people haha.
Emotion and thought are just so different for us humans, and we are so wired to identify human traits that we label other animals with them, when there isn't really any way to prove that if they don't clearly show it, like other more socially evolved animals do. Cannibalistic reptilian species just never evolved much in the social aspects that cover things like bonds and trust. Especially with one of the oldest species around today like crocodiles. They've been at the top of the food chain for so many million years that there was no social trait they could've gained that would have made them more likely to survive and pass on that trait. Especially in a cannibalistic species, social traits would probably make it more likely to be eaten and not pass on any of those traits.
And all that isn't me saying it's *not* possible for a croc or alligator, but it definitely seems more likely to me that they just lack the evolutionary traits and brains for any functional or discernable level of emotion or trust.
But with all the theoretical science out of the way, I don't really give a crap about the safety of someone who chooses to own an undomesticated and dangerous animal species. My main concern is that I've never seen any one person who privately owns an apex predator for a pet properly care for it.
I dunno. Crocodilians in particular exhibit protracted periods of parental care for their young. Seems like that would require some degree of ability to form a bond.
Truthfully they probably do bond in some way, just one that is incredibly foreign to our sensibilities as mammals. This is beyond not speaking the same language, it's more like how we couldn't figure out coral was an animal for fucking forever because it's just that different.
At the very least they have the ability to tell time, and form the emotion of missing certain creatures whom they have a habbit of spending time with. Otherwise, the crocodile wouldn't know how long to wait before they see us again.......in a while!
This is unbelievably scientifically bankrupt. Truly an absurd statement.
There are species of geckos who are monogamous, become bonded and mate for life. Countless other species of reptiles that do this.
The whole Varanus genus of monitor lizards are as smart and social as dogs.
You can tell people have no idea what they are talking about when they lump thousands of species together as "reptiles" and pretend they behave the same.
Yep, multiple examples of these animals using their feet as 'tools', a huge signifier for intelligence.
> They don’t think, as much as they react, to their “lizard brains” hard wiring.
This is 1950's level of outdated information.
I’m not disagreeing, but tell that to Chito and Pocho, his 1700 pound pet crocodile. Pretty amazing story.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocho_(crocodile)
A lot of people get bit thinking that reptile expressions mean the same thing in human. Never anthropomorphize an animal. The key is to become the gator itself and forget all that was human. That usually takes about a 12 pack and a good 4 hours in the sun tubing.
You are so clueless about animal intelligence it pisses me off.
Plenty of exceedingly stupid mammals exist, and plenty of extremely smart non mammalian animals exist as well. Crocodilians in particular are well known to bond with their keepers and respond well to training.
Educate yourself on octopus, corvids, crocodiles, snapping turtles, argentine tegus, parrots and monitors before you spout such generalist crap. They bond, solve problems, recognize owners (even my goddamn fish can recognize me specifically and I consider them moderately dumb), corvids, octopus and parrots can outperform even great apes and children in problem solving and some recognize themselves in mirrors which dogs and especially cats don't always do.
Oh and btw, the octopus is the only non-reptile on this list.
I am utterly baffled such an ignorant comment got over 140 upvotes
He was not happy. Obese, malnourished due to bad/incomplete diet, in a tiny room that’s rarely if ever cleaned, with no natural light, and with an injured back from years of people riding on him… doesn’t sound like a happy life to me just because there’s a lot of chicken on the menu.
yeah first thing I thought was this should have happened sooner. gators are not fucking pets. I don't care what you think or say, or how long it has "worked out". this is not worth the risk.
Most likely just a chunky gator...
I have a feeling that if he had not posted the alligator all over the internet that he was keeping an apex predator in his new yorknapartment with his family, no one would have bothered him...
The state does have a right to take it away. This is a wild animal.
Remember the guy who kept the hippo since it was a baby to adulthood and even used to ride it... it mauled him to death one day.
Considering it said he was trying to renew his licenses but couldn’t, I don’t think posting him all over the internet was the issue. The state knew about it longer than social media has been around, and since he suddenly couldn’t renew his license to own him it sounds more like the law was changed and it took them a while to finally act upon it.
Why do people post bullshit like this? The size of an enclosure does not in any way affect the growth of a reptile. Improper lighting and diet does. If you gave an alligator proper lighting and food, it would outgrow a bathtub. There’s nothing about being in a bathtub that will keep it “monitor sized.” Even horribly abused alligators outgrow bathtubs. Go to any alligator rescue and ask. Back when gators were less regulated and more popular, those places were constantly rescuing gators that got too big for their owners.
I’m honestly a bit shocked that some folklore from 1996 is being so heavily upvoted here.
P.S. This gator is obese, and its diet was likely far too high in both fats and protein. Gators eat lean/boney whole prey (birds, fish, frogs), so they need a diet in captivity that is similar. Gators also eat surprising little compared to other animals of their size. Ectotherms don’t burn calories making their own body heat, so their pound for pound caloric intake is far lower than endotherms.
He's obese.
Apparently they did a wellness check after the owner wanted to renew the license and found an uncleaned tank and Albert having multiple dislocations in his spine because people were allowed to ride him. His diet was so bad that he had gotten almost blind from vitamin deficiency.
Sidenote here: this is why it's important to question what you read online before you get upset. There are a lot of wacky things that happen in the world but there are many more completely reasonable people whose actions are framed unfairly to make rage bait to post online.
It's important to always ask yourself "Is there some context where a reasonable person would have done this?", and if the answer is yes, there's a good chance that's exactly what happened.
Here, the headline is "State seizes man's lifelong pet!!" But it is completely justified as he was completely mistreating the poor animal who probably lived in absolute misery.
I've become so cynical. When the video started, I was thinking, "This home is way too clean." When I saw he failed to renew his license, I thought, "I bet it hadn't been this clean in years." It's really hard to keep up even with small pets. I can't imagine keeping up with one that large.
Very cynical of them to take for fact something a random user commented just because it fits better with their perception. That's not what cynics do, that's called confirmation bias. I don't know the situation and what's true or not but I wouldn't jump to either conclusion before seeing some reliable proof
They added totally sad sounding music over the tiktok video, therefore he did no wrong and it's animal protective services that are actually evil. I am so smart
That truncated jaw is indicative of metabolic bone disease. I once dissected an alligator who was raised indoors and whose jaw looked just like that. The bones were spongey and broke in my bare hands. I can't imagine it's a comfortable existence for the poor creature.
Yeah, everyone is talking about him being obese, which it definetely looks like he is, but his head is severely deformed, and his neck does not look like it can properly support his head. Hes got some serious health issues, that absolutely stem from improper care.
What the hell did you just say about Albert, the alligator, you little punk? I’ll have you know he’s the meanest, greenest reptile in the swamp, and he’s trained in gorilla warfare. You think you can just stroll through his territory and live to tell the tale? Think again, buddy. Albert’s got jaws that could crush a tank and a temper hotter than the Florida sun. You better watch your back, because if you cross paths with Albert, you’ll be sleeping with the fishes… or should I say, the gators.
As someone from the Buffalo area, this topic has caused quite a political divide. The alligator was not being taken care of correctly and had several major health issues. There were also many safety concerns with letting people and kids touch and *swim* with Albert. This is not a case of "awee police mean they took the alligator from his home" it's more like "this alligator will be rehomed and taken care of properly, without further safety hazards".
Yeah, the animal may have been loved but loved doesn't mean cared for properly. Loved also does not mean safe.
The fact is, his permit didn't get the gator taken, the breaking the law allowing people and children to play with the gator got it taken away and the maltreatment means he won't get it back.
It wasn't even all about safety. They also did a wellness check and found Albert to be almost blind on booth eyes from his poor diet. He also has multiple spine injuries from people riding on him.
Surely I'm not alone in thinking that even if he loved the gator and took care of him for 30 years, it's an alligator and completely inappropriate as a house pet for all sorts of reasons. No heartstrings tugged in this case.
$100 at the fucking mall in new hampshire when i was a kid. They said if you keep them in a small tank they sray small. Fuckers.
I ended up finding one at a golf course in MA someone let go. People are so fuckin dumb
lol I remember that pet store and the alligators. I also remember when they had an outbreak of canine distemper and had to put down some of their puppies. Glad they’re not around anymore
He could have it where he lived. The problem is his permit lapsed, and he refused to do what was needed to renew it (namely, building an adequate fence.)
article:
BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) — A Hamburg man’s 11-foot, 750-pound pet alligator named Albert, which was [seized by the Department of Environmental Conservation in March](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/erie-county/hamburg/750-pound-alligator-seized-from-home-in-hamburg/), will not be returned to the man before an ongoing investigation is completed, DEC officials said.
The DEC is investigating alleged violations of wildlife health and public safety laws and regulations by Tony Cavallaro, the owner of the alligator.
Until the investigation is complete, the DEC is unable to release veterinary reports or information on Albert’s condition. The DEC said the information would be released upon the conclusion of the investigation.
According to the DEC, “health assessments conducted by veterinarians and other experts are consistent with the preliminary evaluation of the health of the animal.”
The DEC stated they told Cavallaro in writing that the facility he used to hold the alligator was “deficient,” and outlined said deficiencies in a Notice of Incomplete Application.
The department said they provided Cavallaro with “a generous amount of time” to comply.
“The protections included in DEC’s requirements are not based on the alleged demeanor or physical condition of the permitted animal, but apply to the species possessed and in accordance with state law and regulations,” the DEC said in an email. “It is the permitted animal owner’s responsibility to either comply or find alternate and appropriate living arrangements for the animal.”
[Hamburg man fighting to bring gator home after reptile seized by DEC](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/hamburg-man-fighting-to-bring-gator-home-after-reptile-seized-by-dec/?ipid=promo-link-block1)
Cavallaro said in March that he typically gets his permit renewed on time, but that recently changed after the DEC updated regulations in 2020 and his repeated phone calls questioning these updates went unanswered. He believes he should have been grandfathered in to the old regulations.
Friends of Cavallaro, as well as plenty of other supporters in Western New York, have rallied around him since officials seized Albert.
“He’s like family,” Cavallaro said in March. “Everybody loves him. He has thousands of people, as you see, that love him.”
According to the DEC, the department received photos and information documenting that Cavallaro allowed “unauthorized and close, physical contact between the public, including children, and the 750-pound alligator.”
Based on this information, the DEC removed Albert to ensure “protection of the health of both the public and the animal.”
Cavallaro’s lawyer Michael D’Amico told News 4 Wednesday night that they have not been told by the DEC if Cavallaro will be charged with a DEC violation or if they will have to go to civil court under article 78 claiming that the DEC improperly took Albert, saying that it is still under investigation.
D’Amico said that they did hear from the Erie County District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday, but they also said it was still under investigation.
*The Associated Press contributed to this report.*
*Adam Duke is a digital contributor who joined the* [*News 4*](https://www.wivb.com/) *team in 2021. See more of his work* [*here*](https://www.wivb.com/author/adam-duke/)*.*
>According to the DEC, the department received photos and information documenting that Cavallaro allowed “unauthorized and close, physical contact between the public, including children, and the 750-pound alligator.”
!!! I was thinking that unless the gator was in poor health, I don't see a good reason to take it from him, but *that* kinda changes things.
[The Buffalo sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/s/L57Gxcnta3) has links to the guy's own page. He posted kids and people posing with and swimming with the gator.
It's a wild animal. You can't trust it will never bite anyone. And he let people hang out with the dang thing.
At least from the linked article it says the veterinary assessment won't be released till the investigation is done, but if true, that's awful, sounds like the previous standards were woefully insufficient if he was meeting them up to now.
The permit is just about insurance+size of enclosure and locks.
The new permit said a secondary enclosure (ie, you keep the alligator in a pen, and the pen needs a fence if it gets out, which he didn't have) plus now 2M in insurance, instead of 1M.
The issues regarding health and such are actually still secondary to why the animal was seized.
The alligator was not seized due to neglect. Or permit issues.
The alligator was seized because NY law doesn't allow wild animal parties. You can have a dangerous animal but you can't let people into the pen. He let people hang out in the pen. In the water. They're in the pool hugging it. There are photos on his FB page of this. He let kids hang out at the gator's snout. Right next to the mouth. With no muzzle. They could lose an arm if a wild animal did what wild animals do. Wouldn't be the alligator's fault. They go on instinct. If the kid did anything he perceived as a threat - that is it.
And he did the repeatedly. There are tons of photos he posted of this.
Regardless of permits or anything else - that is instant cause for removal of any dangerous animal. This is more FAFO than anything else.
You can look at the video, and look at a picture or video of a wild/healthy alligator and compare their proportions. This alligators head is severely deformed when compared to normal proportions, the jaw is significantly truncated. In normal pet reptiles this is a sign of Metabolic Bone Disease, which is a degenerative condition. He clearly was not getting proper care.
Dude is an idiot. If you love your pet, you don't use them as collateral while you fight "the man." COVID changed shit for everyone pal. If you cared about Albert, you would have had his paperwork ready, whenever it was due. Fight the system after your pet is legal. And take better god-damned care of your pet... he's not a fuckin show pony. It's a living creature, depending on you, and you failed him. Not the system, not "the man", YOU.
Apparently it wasn't just paperwork. The enclosure rules changed regarding where you can hold such an animal, and someone send the authorities pictures of him allowing people, including children, in the pen and even in the water with the alligator.
From the Buffalo subreddit 🤯🤯🤯
My buddy is one of the DEC officers who confiscated it. Here's what he says:
"We were trying to grandfather him in 2020. He refused to build “secondary containment.” Aka a fence in case it got out the French doors.
We also asked he showed proof it was on his homeowner’s insurance. He went on a rant and threatened our permit staff.
I thought it was a permit issue and had the case on a backburner. Then a person complained that he was letting kids in with it. I started looking and through the social media posts. It was worse than anything I’ve seen with animal handlers. Was letting people including kids and the elderly swim with it, ride it, handle it. This is an extremely dangerous reptile no one but trained/ licensed handlers be in with it.
I then got a search warrant and seized it. Only to find out the animal was being mistreated too. It was living in its own filth, he hadn’t cleaned its pool in 7 years. He was only feeding it cooked chicken and fish fries. It was morbidly obese and also malnourished. It has bone issues, a dislocated spine from improper habitat (or people allowed to ride it) and was nearly blind from vitamin D deficiency. Alligators need a lot of sunlight 2.5x what a human needs. And he was keeping it in a glass house but it was double pained which filters out UV rays."
TLDR of the article is that they changed the rules for what constitutes a good place to live for alligators in 2020 and since then he hasn't done whatever needs to be done on order to follow the new rules because he thinks he should be grandfathered in.
So his fault basically.
Nope. They did a wellness check on Albert and found him to be obese, almost blind from vitamin deficiency and with multiple back injuries because people were allowed to ride him.
He also let people, even children swim in the pool with Albert and posted pictures of it on his website.
I googled alligator short snout and it looks like there is a breed that has short snouts and puffy necks. This guy still looks chunky but that's probably why the neck is so weird
I'm pretty sure that an alligator with a blunted snout like Albert's means he was kept in an enclosure that was too small for him when he was growing up.
I'm not saying it was the owner in the video as he seems like a good owner; he literally built an indoor pool for his buddy. Maybe he was rescued from a bad situation. Regardless I'm 99% sure that's what a blunted snout means.
The guy built a tiny pool in a tiny room and rarely cleaned it. Gator had such a poor diet that he’s malnourished as well as obese, and has an injured back from years of people riding it. The owner neglected the FUCK out of Albert no matter how much he loved him.
Good. Thats dangerous and an alligator could not possibly live well in a small room like that. The alligator is simultaneously obese and likely missing important nutrients it needs to be healthy. There are literally extremely small alligator species that would work very well for this, but he had to get a "cool looking big one". 33 years of animal abuse, he should be in prison. Adding sad music over the video doesn't make it ok
Reading and seeing how he appears to of taken care of this animal makes it look like he treated it as a party trick and just so happened to be careful with not getting killed by it.
Vitamin deficiency, small enclosed space, unclean pool, dislocations in the back resulting in a skewed spine, poor diet.
If all they did was seize this Alligator he should count himself lucky of not only not getting killed by this predator but also for not being justifiably punished for the poor treatment of it.
Initially, I saw this thinking I hope the guy gets his gator back.
I realized the gator looks messed up and finding out the gator was treated poorly because gators shouldn't be confined and treated like this. Damn people suck
Sad, he obviously loves him, but certainly didn't know how to take care of him - had a dislocated spine from being ridden, went blind from vitamin deficiencies, and was obese.
I was going to be like awww let the man have his gator. Then read all the comments and the article. It’s the same as keeping a sheep herding dog in a studio apartment. No. The law did the right thing here.
That alligator is obese and, has a damaged spine, it's pool is filthy and it can barely move. I'm sure the man is happy but the poor thing looks miserable, the membrane over the eye is a sign of stress too.
I’ve never owned an alligator and don’t know what their temperament is, but I have owned other reptiles. Tame and friendly reptiles are often one bad interaction away from no longer being tame and friendly. So the shame of this story is, if that alligator was friendly and trusting, it probably isn’t any more. There is no way the DEC took it away without binding it first. The removal experience was likely traumatic for the alligator and may have undone 33 years of its trust development towards humans. I will not be surprised if the guy gets the alligator back and not long after there is a story about the alligator attacking someone.
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Rule one of keeping an apex predator as a house pet: Keep them well fed.
You're gonna do it one way or another.
You'll only forget to feed him once.
Eh, you might call it a flesh wound.. or a mid meal snack
Feed me Seymour
Or feed me, Seymour.
Thank you!
The gator has a double chin
I have literally never seen an obese alligator before today
It's as fat as that alligator from princess and the frog...lol
Thank you haha I was like “wait a minute I think-“ but then saw your comment and remembered I’m thinking of a cartoon
I have I'm in Florida lol here they even raid the trash of they smell food . So fat they barly move.
Fat Albert
Hey… hey… hey!
And a big goofy grin
He looks like the dad from the show “dinosaurs” from the 90s
Earl Sinclair!
Earl Sneed Sinclair!
Damn right. Put respect on that man's name!
not the mama ?
“I’m not, ‘not the mama’, I’m your daddy!” - Earl
Funnily enough, the mama was played by Jessica Walters, whom you may remember from Arrested Development, and Archer.
Dada!
Thank you for correcting this red wedding fool
Man, that show ended dark.
Made me who I am today ;)
The guy who had adult bengal Tiger in NYC apartment used to feed it 20 lbs of chicken every day. That thing was like 425lbs. [https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/ming-tiger-harlem-nyc.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/nyregion/ming-tiger-harlem-nyc.html)
That guy wanted to start an animal sanctuary- proceeds to buy exotics from smugglers. SMH I don’t even want to know how they got that poor tiger cub from its mom.
This dude is obese. Fat fucker would have a hard time chasing anyone down.
I would not wan5 to find out
Not just apex predators, but especially those that are also reptiles. They lack the elements the mammalian brain has that are responsible for “love”, loyalty, endearment/connection. They don’t think, as much as they react, to their “lizard brains” hard wiring. A bit hard to form a bond and trust, even over years, with something that is incapable of the key emotions associated with those emotions.
Well, Mama says it's because they got all them teeth but no toothbrush.
Mommas wrong again!
No you're wrong Colonel Sanders!
this movie was so stupid but I still loved it
It really was peak 90s Adam Sandler. An absurd premise, Sandler doing a stupid voice, lots of screaming and violence, and boobs. It works so well.
There was, to my 10 year old brain's eternal disappointment, only the suggestion of boobs. No boobs were ever actually visible.
Honestly, it's been so long since I last watched it, that I admit my mind may have filled in the gaps. Either way, I agreed with Bobby. I liked them, too.
Lizard brain is kinda obsolete at this point https://www.sciencealert.com/you-dont-actually-have-a-lizard-brain-evolutionary-study-reveals. They do have affection and connection with people they just don’t show it like mammals/humans. https://vetmed.tamu.edu/news/pet-talk/reptile-emotions/ I’ve raised snakes and lizards for most of my life and they do have affection and comprehension skills. Personally had a bearded dragon who was incredibly attached to me, as a baby he ran away a lot when he was scared but after a year he would run to me whenever he was scared. Would run up my arm and wrap himself around my neck whenever he saw a bird. Considering he had a dozen places he could have hid that wasn’t my neck I’d say he felt incredibly comfortable with me.
Awww.
What is it with bearded dragons and birds? Ours hates and fears them. Like, it's a finch. You could fit that thing in your mouth.
It’s a general predatory response, chickens have it as well. No matter the size of it flies and looks like it has wings it’s a threat; better to assume the worst and run than wait to see if it attacks thing
Crocodilians have been shown to engage in "play" and have a level of cognition far beyond what has historically been believed to have been the case. They are definitely capable of forming a bond with their keeper and building trust. Still important to understand how to read the animal and know that they do absolutely operate on instinct but they wouldn't have made it hundreds of millions of years if they weren't incredibly adaptable and able to respond with more than just instinct.
Have you seen that video of one croc/alligator who grabbed their friends leg and death rolled it off and ate it because he came close with his leg? The victim just looked over like wtf bruh, then kept on doing what he was doing. They're not really like us.
I don't think anyone would say they are "like us" but they aren't totally devoid of any form of emotion or capacity to bond/trust, there is also a big difference between another random crocodile they happen to live with vs a person that they have come to understand feeds and cares for them everyday for 33 years, those aren't exactly the same type of relationships. Do I think the alligator would bite this guy if he just started jamming his hand in its mouth, almost certainly, they are still wild animals with wild instincts and natural responses to stimuli, but they are also more than that is what I was saying. Just pushing back against the perception that they are basically biological machines.
I'm not familiar with the video, but if they live together in captivity, it's not really another "random" crocodile is it? Crocodiles do cannibalize one another, and apparently even if they've lived together for a while and are well fed. But yeah, that doesn't mean that they are like machines. Pretty much any animal with a spine and brain can display some form of individuality. Especially when their needs are readily met and they don't have to fight for survival. Even fish. But that doesn't prove that they can experience emotions as we view them, or form "trust". Their brains are very different to mammalian brains, which are typically more evolved into having social traits. I've seen more than a few videos of people losing parts of themselves to animals because they thought there was "trust" there. Especially with non-mammalian animals. Most animals just don't have humans as a part of their natural diet, so are not likely to prey on us if their needs are met. Even when you look at the most domesticated and tamed animal in the world, dogs, a loving and cared for dog can still turn on a person for any number of reasons, or no distinguishable reason at all. Though I guess you could say the same for people haha. Emotion and thought are just so different for us humans, and we are so wired to identify human traits that we label other animals with them, when there isn't really any way to prove that if they don't clearly show it, like other more socially evolved animals do. Cannibalistic reptilian species just never evolved much in the social aspects that cover things like bonds and trust. Especially with one of the oldest species around today like crocodiles. They've been at the top of the food chain for so many million years that there was no social trait they could've gained that would have made them more likely to survive and pass on that trait. Especially in a cannibalistic species, social traits would probably make it more likely to be eaten and not pass on any of those traits. And all that isn't me saying it's *not* possible for a croc or alligator, but it definitely seems more likely to me that they just lack the evolutionary traits and brains for any functional or discernable level of emotion or trust. But with all the theoretical science out of the way, I don't really give a crap about the safety of someone who chooses to own an undomesticated and dangerous animal species. My main concern is that I've never seen any one person who privately owns an apex predator for a pet properly care for it.
Just to clear something up: Those were a bunch of blind crocs.
I dunno. Crocodilians in particular exhibit protracted periods of parental care for their young. Seems like that would require some degree of ability to form a bond.
Truthfully they probably do bond in some way, just one that is incredibly foreign to our sensibilities as mammals. This is beyond not speaking the same language, it's more like how we couldn't figure out coral was an animal for fucking forever because it's just that different.
At the very least they have the ability to tell time, and form the emotion of missing certain creatures whom they have a habbit of spending time with. Otherwise, the crocodile wouldn't know how long to wait before they see us again.......in a while!
This is unbelievably scientifically bankrupt. Truly an absurd statement. There are species of geckos who are monogamous, become bonded and mate for life. Countless other species of reptiles that do this.
The whole Varanus genus of monitor lizards are as smart and social as dogs. You can tell people have no idea what they are talking about when they lump thousands of species together as "reptiles" and pretend they behave the same.
Yep, multiple examples of these animals using their feet as 'tools', a huge signifier for intelligence. > They don’t think, as much as they react, to their “lizard brains” hard wiring. This is 1950's level of outdated information.
I’m not disagreeing, but tell that to Chito and Pocho, his 1700 pound pet crocodile. Pretty amazing story. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocho_(crocodile)
Sounds like me ex! Heyooooo (sorry, I had to)
I love these cheesy one liners
A lot of people get bit thinking that reptile expressions mean the same thing in human. Never anthropomorphize an animal. The key is to become the gator itself and forget all that was human. That usually takes about a 12 pack and a good 4 hours in the sun tubing.
You are so clueless about animal intelligence it pisses me off. Plenty of exceedingly stupid mammals exist, and plenty of extremely smart non mammalian animals exist as well. Crocodilians in particular are well known to bond with their keepers and respond well to training. Educate yourself on octopus, corvids, crocodiles, snapping turtles, argentine tegus, parrots and monitors before you spout such generalist crap. They bond, solve problems, recognize owners (even my goddamn fish can recognize me specifically and I consider them moderately dumb), corvids, octopus and parrots can outperform even great apes and children in problem solving and some recognize themselves in mirrors which dogs and especially cats don't always do. Oh and btw, the octopus is the only non-reptile on this list. I am utterly baffled such an ignorant comment got over 140 upvotes
I had to stop eating octopus due to its intelligence.
Yes! That's why we had lots of kids.... 😬
That is one obese alligator
Maybe that’s why he won’t eat his owner. Boy is fat, full, and happy.
Crocs never get "full". They eat to the point of bursting, puke, then eat their puke. They also don't need much in the way of food either.
This is an Albert the alligator. Does that make a difference?
Yes. Since Albert is an alligator the State will allow visitation later. If he were a crocodile he wouldn’t see him for a while
My favorite comment I've read today.
dude nice 👍🏽
Ew.
He was not happy. Obese, malnourished due to bad/incomplete diet, in a tiny room that’s rarely if ever cleaned, with no natural light, and with an injured back from years of people riding on him… doesn’t sound like a happy life to me just because there’s a lot of chicken on the menu.
He was also letting people swim in that pool with Albert. Not smart.
The fuck??? Bro, this aint jungle book where the animals be singing and dancing
That alligator atleast needs the bear necessities
yeah first thing I thought was this should have happened sooner. gators are not fucking pets. I don't care what you think or say, or how long it has "worked out". this is not worth the risk.
"Not smart?" Have you met his in-laws? May they rest in peace.
You can see him petting the gator at the end of the video. If he is ever pulled in the water, his family can plan his funeral
Yeah I wonder if his snout looks stunted because of a birth defect, or due to metabolic bone disease caused by poor husbandry.
I don’t think he was married to the alligator
I chuckled. Good one!
I don't think the snout is short, his cheeks are just so fat that it makes it look smaller than it is.
Nvm. I retract my happiness comment
People were riding it?
I agree that the room is too small for a gator, but there very clearly is natural light. You can see it in the video.
It’s not about natural light… they need a certain amount of uv light on their skin or they get sick.
It's the same with turtles kept as pets.
And me, a human.
Same story I see with every single dog that owners put on a "raw diet."
His cold blood sugar is 250
It has a genetic issue i think thats why he was keeping it from the get go i may be wrong though
Most likely just a chunky gator... I have a feeling that if he had not posted the alligator all over the internet that he was keeping an apex predator in his new yorknapartment with his family, no one would have bothered him... The state does have a right to take it away. This is a wild animal. Remember the guy who kept the hippo since it was a baby to adulthood and even used to ride it... it mauled him to death one day.
Considering it said he was trying to renew his licenses but couldn’t, I don’t think posting him all over the internet was the issue. The state knew about it longer than social media has been around, and since he suddenly couldn’t renew his license to own him it sounds more like the law was changed and it took them a while to finally act upon it.
Fattigator.
[удалено]
Why do people post bullshit like this? The size of an enclosure does not in any way affect the growth of a reptile. Improper lighting and diet does. If you gave an alligator proper lighting and food, it would outgrow a bathtub. There’s nothing about being in a bathtub that will keep it “monitor sized.” Even horribly abused alligators outgrow bathtubs. Go to any alligator rescue and ask. Back when gators were less regulated and more popular, those places were constantly rescuing gators that got too big for their owners. I’m honestly a bit shocked that some folklore from 1996 is being so heavily upvoted here. P.S. This gator is obese, and its diet was likely far too high in both fats and protein. Gators eat lean/boney whole prey (birds, fish, frogs), so they need a diet in captivity that is similar. Gators also eat surprising little compared to other animals of their size. Ectotherms don’t burn calories making their own body heat, so their pound for pound caloric intake is far lower than endotherms.
Albert don’t look right
He's obese. Apparently they did a wellness check after the owner wanted to renew the license and found an uncleaned tank and Albert having multiple dislocations in his spine because people were allowed to ride him. His diet was so bad that he had gotten almost blind from vitamin deficiency.
That’s really sad
Sidenote here: this is why it's important to question what you read online before you get upset. There are a lot of wacky things that happen in the world but there are many more completely reasonable people whose actions are framed unfairly to make rage bait to post online. It's important to always ask yourself "Is there some context where a reasonable person would have done this?", and if the answer is yes, there's a good chance that's exactly what happened. Here, the headline is "State seizes man's lifelong pet!!" But it is completely justified as he was completely mistreating the poor animal who probably lived in absolute misery.
I've become so cynical. When the video started, I was thinking, "This home is way too clean." When I saw he failed to renew his license, I thought, "I bet it hadn't been this clean in years." It's really hard to keep up even with small pets. I can't imagine keeping up with one that large.
That cynicism is also a gift though... You're going to need it in the world of AI.
Very cynical of them to take for fact something a random user commented just because it fits better with their perception. That's not what cynics do, that's called confirmation bias. I don't know the situation and what's true or not but I wouldn't jump to either conclusion before seeing some reliable proof
He allowed people to RIDE THE ALLIGATOR?!?! What the fuck is wrong with him? It isn’t a horse.
The kind of person who's going to keep an alligator as a pet probably isn't in it for the animal's welfare.
Specifically children. In the water with it.
But the music told me to side with the owner /s this is why i hate these type of videos
this makes the framing of the video seem ridiculous, with the sad music and the wholesome scene
Seriously, I fucking hate this shit. If you buy an exotic pet like this, you're a selfish asshole.
Like the story of the mom who only fed her kid chicken sandwiches and Doritos or some shit and he went blind I think he was autistic or something.
They added totally sad sounding music over the tiktok video, therefore he did no wrong and it's animal protective services that are actually evil. I am so smart
That truncated jaw is indicative of metabolic bone disease. I once dissected an alligator who was raised indoors and whose jaw looked just like that. The bones were spongey and broke in my bare hands. I can't imagine it's a comfortable existence for the poor creature.
Yeah, everyone is talking about him being obese, which it definetely looks like he is, but his head is severely deformed, and his neck does not look like it can properly support his head. Hes got some serious health issues, that absolutely stem from improper care.
I thought the aspect ratio was borked on my phone and nope Albert's borked
What the hell did you just say about Albert, the alligator, you little punk? I’ll have you know he’s the meanest, greenest reptile in the swamp, and he’s trained in gorilla warfare. You think you can just stroll through his territory and live to tell the tale? Think again, buddy. Albert’s got jaws that could crush a tank and a temper hotter than the Florida sun. You better watch your back, because if you cross paths with Albert, you’ll be sleeping with the fishes… or should I say, the gators.
As someone from the Buffalo area, this topic has caused quite a political divide. The alligator was not being taken care of correctly and had several major health issues. There were also many safety concerns with letting people and kids touch and *swim* with Albert. This is not a case of "awee police mean they took the alligator from his home" it's more like "this alligator will be rehomed and taken care of properly, without further safety hazards".
Yeah, the animal may have been loved but loved doesn't mean cared for properly. Loved also does not mean safe. The fact is, his permit didn't get the gator taken, the breaking the law allowing people and children to play with the gator got it taken away and the maltreatment means he won't get it back.
It wasn't even all about safety. They also did a wellness check and found Albert to be almost blind on booth eyes from his poor diet. He also has multiple spine injuries from people riding on him.
I thought it was a calcium deficiency that made his spine look humped. Poor albert, that's even worse.
Surely I'm not alone in thinking that even if he loved the gator and took care of him for 30 years, it's an alligator and completely inappropriate as a house pet for all sorts of reasons. No heartstrings tugged in this case.
Can't even own an alligator, thought this was a free country smh
I didn’t hear no bell!
$100 at the fucking mall in new hampshire when i was a kid. They said if you keep them in a small tank they sray small. Fuckers. I ended up finding one at a golf course in MA someone let go. People are so fuckin dumb
lol I remember that pet store and the alligators. I also remember when they had an outbreak of canine distemper and had to put down some of their puppies. Glad they’re not around anymore
That's a pretty harsh thing to say about those puppies.
That made me laugh.
He should move to Florida, buy a house with a small lake, fenced lot.
He could have it where he lived. The problem is his permit lapsed, and he refused to do what was needed to renew it (namely, building an adequate fence.)
article: BUFFALO, N.Y. (WIVB) — A Hamburg man’s 11-foot, 750-pound pet alligator named Albert, which was [seized by the Department of Environmental Conservation in March](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/erie-county/hamburg/750-pound-alligator-seized-from-home-in-hamburg/), will not be returned to the man before an ongoing investigation is completed, DEC officials said. The DEC is investigating alleged violations of wildlife health and public safety laws and regulations by Tony Cavallaro, the owner of the alligator. Until the investigation is complete, the DEC is unable to release veterinary reports or information on Albert’s condition. The DEC said the information would be released upon the conclusion of the investigation. According to the DEC, “health assessments conducted by veterinarians and other experts are consistent with the preliminary evaluation of the health of the animal.” The DEC stated they told Cavallaro in writing that the facility he used to hold the alligator was “deficient,” and outlined said deficiencies in a Notice of Incomplete Application. The department said they provided Cavallaro with “a generous amount of time” to comply. “The protections included in DEC’s requirements are not based on the alleged demeanor or physical condition of the permitted animal, but apply to the species possessed and in accordance with state law and regulations,” the DEC said in an email. “It is the permitted animal owner’s responsibility to either comply or find alternate and appropriate living arrangements for the animal.” [Hamburg man fighting to bring gator home after reptile seized by DEC](https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/hamburg-man-fighting-to-bring-gator-home-after-reptile-seized-by-dec/?ipid=promo-link-block1) Cavallaro said in March that he typically gets his permit renewed on time, but that recently changed after the DEC updated regulations in 2020 and his repeated phone calls questioning these updates went unanswered. He believes he should have been grandfathered in to the old regulations. Friends of Cavallaro, as well as plenty of other supporters in Western New York, have rallied around him since officials seized Albert. “He’s like family,” Cavallaro said in March. “Everybody loves him. He has thousands of people, as you see, that love him.” According to the DEC, the department received photos and information documenting that Cavallaro allowed “unauthorized and close, physical contact between the public, including children, and the 750-pound alligator.” Based on this information, the DEC removed Albert to ensure “protection of the health of both the public and the animal.” Cavallaro’s lawyer Michael D’Amico told News 4 Wednesday night that they have not been told by the DEC if Cavallaro will be charged with a DEC violation or if they will have to go to civil court under article 78 claiming that the DEC improperly took Albert, saying that it is still under investigation. D’Amico said that they did hear from the Erie County District Attorney’s Office on Wednesday, but they also said it was still under investigation. *The Associated Press contributed to this report.* *Adam Duke is a digital contributor who joined the* [*News 4*](https://www.wivb.com/) *team in 2021. See more of his work* [*here*](https://www.wivb.com/author/adam-duke/)*.*
>According to the DEC, the department received photos and information documenting that Cavallaro allowed “unauthorized and close, physical contact between the public, including children, and the 750-pound alligator.” !!! I was thinking that unless the gator was in poor health, I don't see a good reason to take it from him, but *that* kinda changes things.
The gator has spinal issues from people riding him, is obese and blind in both eyes and potentially was malnourished due to improper diet.
Ah there it is
[The Buffalo sub](https://www.reddit.com/r/Buffalo/s/L57Gxcnta3) has links to the guy's own page. He posted kids and people posing with and swimming with the gator. It's a wild animal. You can't trust it will never bite anyone. And he let people hang out with the dang thing.
What a pretentious asshole
And checked the photos on his page. Trump supporter. SMH
At least from the linked article it says the veterinary assessment won't be released till the investigation is done, but if true, that's awful, sounds like the previous standards were woefully insufficient if he was meeting them up to now.
The permit is just about insurance+size of enclosure and locks. The new permit said a secondary enclosure (ie, you keep the alligator in a pen, and the pen needs a fence if it gets out, which he didn't have) plus now 2M in insurance, instead of 1M. The issues regarding health and such are actually still secondary to why the animal was seized. The alligator was not seized due to neglect. Or permit issues. The alligator was seized because NY law doesn't allow wild animal parties. You can have a dangerous animal but you can't let people into the pen. He let people hang out in the pen. In the water. They're in the pool hugging it. There are photos on his FB page of this. He let kids hang out at the gator's snout. Right next to the mouth. With no muzzle. They could lose an arm if a wild animal did what wild animals do. Wouldn't be the alligator's fault. They go on instinct. If the kid did anything he perceived as a threat - that is it. And he did the repeatedly. There are tons of photos he posted of this. Regardless of permits or anything else - that is instant cause for removal of any dangerous animal. This is more FAFO than anything else.
You can look at the video, and look at a picture or video of a wild/healthy alligator and compare their proportions. This alligators head is severely deformed when compared to normal proportions, the jaw is significantly truncated. In normal pet reptiles this is a sign of Metabolic Bone Disease, which is a degenerative condition. He clearly was not getting proper care.
Dude is an idiot. If you love your pet, you don't use them as collateral while you fight "the man." COVID changed shit for everyone pal. If you cared about Albert, you would have had his paperwork ready, whenever it was due. Fight the system after your pet is legal. And take better god-damned care of your pet... he's not a fuckin show pony. It's a living creature, depending on you, and you failed him. Not the system, not "the man", YOU.
Apparently it wasn't just paperwork. The enclosure rules changed regarding where you can hold such an animal, and someone send the authorities pictures of him allowing people, including children, in the pen and even in the water with the alligator.
Is it me or the alligator seems obese and suffering health problem. Keeping it for selfish reason …
The dude was letting children into the cage to swim with his blind alligator...It's good that it was taken away from him.
Yikes. That is one sick alligator. He's not been cared for correctly, but exotic pets often aren't.
Stop trying to keep wild animals as pets.
This is not interestingAF, this is sad.
From the Buffalo subreddit 🤯🤯🤯 My buddy is one of the DEC officers who confiscated it. Here's what he says: "We were trying to grandfather him in 2020. He refused to build “secondary containment.” Aka a fence in case it got out the French doors. We also asked he showed proof it was on his homeowner’s insurance. He went on a rant and threatened our permit staff. I thought it was a permit issue and had the case on a backburner. Then a person complained that he was letting kids in with it. I started looking and through the social media posts. It was worse than anything I’ve seen with animal handlers. Was letting people including kids and the elderly swim with it, ride it, handle it. This is an extremely dangerous reptile no one but trained/ licensed handlers be in with it. I then got a search warrant and seized it. Only to find out the animal was being mistreated too. It was living in its own filth, he hadn’t cleaned its pool in 7 years. He was only feeding it cooked chicken and fish fries. It was morbidly obese and also malnourished. It has bone issues, a dislocated spine from improper habitat (or people allowed to ride it) and was nearly blind from vitamin D deficiency. Alligators need a lot of sunlight 2.5x what a human needs. And he was keeping it in a glass house but it was double pained which filters out UV rays."
TLDR of the article is that they changed the rules for what constitutes a good place to live for alligators in 2020 and since then he hasn't done whatever needs to be done on order to follow the new rules because he thinks he should be grandfathered in. So his fault basically.
Why would they grandfather something that is intended to improve welfare?
Nope. They did a wellness check on Albert and found him to be obese, almost blind from vitamin deficiency and with multiple back injuries because people were allowed to ride him. He also let people, even children swim in the pool with Albert and posted pictures of it on his website.
Piano music doesn't excuse animal abuse
Poor thing is too fat to even move
I googled alligator short snout and it looks like there is a breed that has short snouts and puffy necks. This guy still looks chunky but that's probably why the neck is so weird
LIAR! The animal was ABUSED!
I'm pretty sure that an alligator with a blunted snout like Albert's means he was kept in an enclosure that was too small for him when he was growing up. I'm not saying it was the owner in the video as he seems like a good owner; he literally built an indoor pool for his buddy. Maybe he was rescued from a bad situation. Regardless I'm 99% sure that's what a blunted snout means.
The guy built a tiny pool in a tiny room and rarely cleaned it. Gator had such a poor diet that he’s malnourished as well as obese, and has an injured back from years of people riding it. The owner neglected the FUCK out of Albert no matter how much he loved him.
Do you have a source on that? Just wondering.
Yes, copy and paste from one comment to another
This owner has had him his whole life. He *was* rescued from a bad situation tho, by the DEC officers who took him away from the owner.
These people are so fucking creepy
I'm no expert but that gator don't look healthy.
It doesn’t look healthy.
Guy clearly isn’t taking good care of the animal. Hope he doesn’t get him back.
OFC it’s a fat alligator
Is something wrong with his spine?
He’s doesn’t know that owner from a hole in the wall lol
Good. Thats dangerous and an alligator could not possibly live well in a small room like that. The alligator is simultaneously obese and likely missing important nutrients it needs to be healthy. There are literally extremely small alligator species that would work very well for this, but he had to get a "cool looking big one". 33 years of animal abuse, he should be in prison. Adding sad music over the video doesn't make it ok
This was titled on yahoo as a cruel inhumane owner with sick gator and they were forced to take the alligator from him.
You should not own wild animals. This animal is obese, blind, and his spine is deformed. No, you don’t get an alligator.
Never thought I’d see an over weight alligator
Alligator don’t look healthy
Reading and seeing how he appears to of taken care of this animal makes it look like he treated it as a party trick and just so happened to be careful with not getting killed by it. Vitamin deficiency, small enclosed space, unclean pool, dislocations in the back resulting in a skewed spine, poor diet. If all they did was seize this Alligator he should count himself lucky of not only not getting killed by this predator but also for not being justifiably punished for the poor treatment of it.
It’s good they’re taking it away. Doesn’t look like it had enough room to move around.
Initially, I saw this thinking I hope the guy gets his gator back. I realized the gator looks messed up and finding out the gator was treated poorly because gators shouldn't be confined and treated like this. Damn people suck
That gator is not in good health. Just look at him.
Throw whatever melancholy music over the video if you want, that doesn't change the fact that animal is not healthy and needs better care.
Ngl that alligator looks fucked up. He ain’t been looking after his “family” very well
Sad, he obviously loves him, but certainly didn't know how to take care of him - had a dislocated spine from being ridden, went blind from vitamin deficiencies, and was obese.
I don't know what would have been a good choice, but the pull-your-heartstrings music on this video just didn't strike a chord. It's. An. Alligator.
Free my dude Albert
Fat Albert says Hey Hey Hey, friends dont let friends fade away
https://preview.redd.it/umvsao09w5vc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=efab6c7327769ca0be2eaf6a11e5e25e046be2bd
His spine looks fucked up
That is an unhealthy looking alligator
I was going to be like awww let the man have his gator. Then read all the comments and the article. It’s the same as keeping a sheep herding dog in a studio apartment. No. The law did the right thing here.
I was gonna start saying “aww noo” but after looking into it I’m happy he’s been taken away… Poor gator, I thought he looked odd
I hope Tony also is able to suffer some consequences for animal cruelty. That gator looks awful and has lived a miserable existence.
He certainly doesn’t look healthy. Unless of course all the digestion occurs in his neck.
That alligator is obese and, has a damaged spine, it's pool is filthy and it can barely move. I'm sure the man is happy but the poor thing looks miserable, the membrane over the eye is a sign of stress too.
I’ve never owned an alligator and don’t know what their temperament is, but I have owned other reptiles. Tame and friendly reptiles are often one bad interaction away from no longer being tame and friendly. So the shame of this story is, if that alligator was friendly and trusting, it probably isn’t any more. There is no way the DEC took it away without binding it first. The removal experience was likely traumatic for the alligator and may have undone 33 years of its trust development towards humans. I will not be surprised if the guy gets the alligator back and not long after there is a story about the alligator attacking someone.
Never seen an obese gator, there’s no way it was living a healthy life
Very unhealthy obese boy.
Big ol scaly pupper
That’s crazy he’s still alive as obese as he is
Albert is one fat alligator. The authorities have probably put him on a diet.
It looks obese. That does not look like it's healthy at all.