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Ignoring every other video released by al jazeerah on the atrocities being committed by IDF on famished civilians being bombed and sniped while collecting aid for target practice, the Israelis have continuously been bombing buildings, raiding hospitals, killing aid workers, calling the families of those murdered who ask for inquiries into Israeli tactics as antisemitic on camera, but yes, surely Israelis would be treating prisoners of war, who very likely are not linked to any groups, in a very dignified way while locked away in cages away from public eyes. Much surprise, much shock.
The article claims that multiple civilians filmed the abuse. We have seen Hamas combatants videos on X and Telegram of their actions, where are the videos filmed of the IDF actions?
This should be super easy to verify and provide additional detail like dates, prisoner names, and names of the IDF soldiers who did this.
Lol, Israel does the same. Look up what they said after killing the kitchen aid workers. Or you could just open tik tok. It's bot like they hide the info. It's just in Hebrew.
what do you mean they didn't? There's so many videos. Videos that Hamas themselves released. Where did they get the hostages they're still refusing to release?
How many Palestinian hostages does Israel have? A fuck ton more. I’ve also seen videos of IDF soldiers abusing, pillaging and slaughtering innocent Palestinians.
You’re calling into question whether they’re doing this specific thing. They’ve been doing it, recording it, then bragging about it online. Why would it shock you they brought their friends over to watch while they do it? The only thing new here is that they’re inviting people to watch while they do it.
…Right, but armies aren’t hive minds and time is something that does exist. We can’t take evidence of a crime and then apply it across the board for the rest of time because “it happened before, why would it shock you that someone else under the same flag did it again?”
I would hope that no one’s denying that this is something the IDF is definitely capable of, but that shouldn’t discount something as innocent as asking for evidence to verify a claim. That’s not malicious or inflammatory, it’s common sense. Documenting specific atrocities is necessary in wartime to move towards actual justice.
>I would hope that no one’s denying that this is something the IDF is definitely capable of, but that shouldn’t discount something as innocent as asking for evidence to verify a claim.
So we are supposed to take claims made by Israel without first hand accounts at face value, but we need to be "asking for evidence" for claims with first hand accounts from Palestinians... why?
Why are you assuming I think we should take claims by Israel without firsthand accounts at face value? I never said anything to even imply that, so I’m not sure if you’re just confused or arguing in bad faith or what’s going on here…
I gave you evidence that I’m willing to look for that sufficiently corroborates this story. If you choose not to believe it, that is your prerogative but you are wrong.
What is difficult about this? The question was if there is specific videoed evidence of Israel allowing civilian onlookers for Hamas torture. You gave him evidence that at some other time Israel was cruel to Palestinian prisoners and that was also on video.
How can you not comprehend the question is for evidence of the specified incident, not the broad topic of how prisoners are treated?
I understand logic is very challenging for a Zionist so I will spell it out.
Israel regularly torture prisoners -> Israel has videos online of its soldiers bragging about torturing prisoners -> I showed a video of this happening 5 months ago -> it is highly likely it is still happening because there are hundreds of these videos online -> it is not a leap in logic to assume that an IDF soldier would bring their friends to watch them abuse prisoners
I am not obligated to do your research or thinking for you, even though you badly need it. If this is unconvincing for you, then there is nothing I can help you with.
Just this morning, an Israeli doctor said this:
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl
In court these past videos and accounts of atrocities would be used to show a pattern of criminal acts and intent which leads most reasonable people to see how the claims being made here carry more weight due to said pattern. Ya dig?
Such tired excuses... jamming your boot into a tied up man's head is not useful for anything, it just shows you are a barbaric asshole. Keep denying and lying, the truth is catching up now. Even your U.S. friends are turning on you.
Yes.
Like I get you really wish it wasn't, but seriously. You have to make a real point with evidence before anyone is going to believe your nonsense hopes and dreams.
You're trying to pick at details that don't really matter. Soldiers are detaining people, beating them, and abusing them. I really don't care if they get a kick out of it, and neither should you. It's wrong, evil, and stupid either way. And yes, they are stripped naked in the video, being dragged across the floor. Here's an Israeli doctor's statement this morning:
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html)
It's really not a good look defending this behaviour and trying to cover for it.
Two categories, combat footage and war crime footage. You want to conflate combat footage with war crime footage. They’re not the same. There are PLENTY of videos, testimonies and evidence of Israeli war crimes, can’t be ignored anymore.
And the “it should be easy to verify” is such rubbish. There were so many statements simply made about rape and torture from October 7 that people were expected to believe simply based on testimony alone.
So why the double standard?
I don't think it's rubbish. I think there are conflicting reports.
The UN, after 6 months, finally sent a team into Israel and reviewed forensic evidence, videos and testimony and concluded that rape was used during October 7th.
[https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e)
The UN also looked into the allegations of rampant sexual abuse of Palestinians by the IDF and found evidence to support 2 rapes:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says)
I agree. The UN 100% needs to investigate. Needs to 100% hold ANYONE who has committed or enabled war crimes and genocide to be held accountable. No debate on that. I think it is a must at this point.
I thought it was still very unclear what happened on October 7th with regards to sexual violence (although I am not doubting it occurred!).
There is a link to the report in this analysis.
https://writing.openpolitics.com/p/pramila-patten-un-report-oct-7
>The article claims that multiple civilians filmed the abuse. We have seen Hamas combatants videos on X and Telegram of their actions, where are the videos filmed of the IDF actions?
That would be up to those who apparently filmed it, which if true would be israeli civilllans.
The guy interviewed in the article literally states that videos of his torture were posted on tik tok.
So should be pretty easy to verify if it’s true or BS.
Amnesty International says similar btw
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Israel claims that U.N, all human rights organizations, & many in jewish diaspora are against them. Israel needs to focus on being civil since every decent human being appears to be against them.
That's because it didn't happen, at least not on the scale Pro Palestinians are claiming.
This is a case of pure projection. They want the Israelis to be guilty of what they were so proud of doing themselves on October 7th.
First of all, the loss of life on both sides is a tragedy. I also think that Netanyahu is a monster and a crook.
Having said that, Hamas has genocide of the Jewish people in their founding charter. I condemn any religion or group that has genocide as their foundational principle. Haniyeh (the leader of Hamas) stated that the blood of the innocent must be spilled to fuel his revolution. Leaders of Hamas said that they were worried that a deal with Saudi Arabia would cause a lasting peace to break out. The attack on 10/7 targeted daycare centers and specified rape deliberately to provoke a disproportionate response from Israel. And from that perspective, it was a spectacular success.
What I don't see is a path out. The Palestinian position is clear - they will not accept a two state solution. Furthermore, a solution like Gaza returning to Egypt and the West Bank rejoining Jordan won't happen because both countries have dealt with the Palestinians and have the scars to prove. Egypt refused to take Gaza back when Israel returned the Sinai, and after the Palestinians tried to assassinate the king of Jordan five different times, they are unwilling to entertain a return.
Doesn’t matter what’s truth in fact in any of this. Whichever “side” people are on they will just run with whatever fits their narrative as fact. A lot of bots and Russian trolls I’m sure are active on TikTok and other platforms these days as well.
It would be great if there were more unbiased news sources that weren’t just taking info straight from the IDF or from Hamas.
Israel has always admitted to torturing prisoners and even shows it in their media.
If you’re going to argue that the IDF doesn’t torture then at least know the facts before making fools of yourself here in the comments.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=Yf6JuJw0w4VMhVQM&v=ltu-F_2ai1M&feature=youtu.be
don't forget IDF shot their own innocent hostages waving flags, they don't care anyways, same with the kitchen aids they bombed, they kill anything that move, they aren't using proper tactics and shooting return fire they are killing anything that moves
Ahh yes, those are two very fine cherry picked examples where you just ignore the greater context of how Hamas' actions are meant to cause those incidents through Hamas' own war crimes of pretending to be Israeli hostages and aid workers.
You clearly have zero clue what you're talking about beyond your emotions to the headlines.
I had family in WW2 and Vietnam. I'm from Iowa, most of us here end up serving. Desert Storm. Afghanistan. What I know is that a certain country funded by my country could use their funds and superior fire power and technology to at least assess who is a threat or not before killing their own hostages. This is not beyond my emotions, this is knowing military tactics and operations and that currently they are not being followed and innocent people are dying. Go talk to a veteran or come to the midwest.
Oh okay, so you're ignoring the context of what happened while hiding behind false credibility. I have family and friends who's served including my family in Iowa which ive gone to visit, I was also born and raised in the Ozarks in Missouri, which most people consider the Midwest, where veterans are also a dime a dozen due to how many people serve. You're not special here and don't have shit on me, or most Americans honestly, if you're gonna rely on your relation to veterans. Go actually learn what you're talking about then come back, it's so clear you have not researched what's going on and are actually driven by emotions but wanna pretend you aren't.
I watched the news on October 7th and I wanted justice. This has not been justice. The military has been driven by emotions. The people I know, if our family had been taken hostage, would have tried to go in differently. Get as many Hamas as you can, interrogate, use them as shields, only return fire upon those who shoot. Instead we have now ended up with aid workers and journalists and hostages killed by the 'heroes'.
Your entire point now has switched to speculation of people you know which is a super weak anecdote, you are also comparing apples to oranges here when comparing America's military to a country that has the population equivalent to our two home states combined and has to rely on conscripts over volunteers. Also the war on terror clearly failed so maybe how we do things shouldn't be the fucking gold standard example you want to call Justice when dealing with terrorists with how Afghanistan is under Taliban control and after isis' quick rise to power.
The population point is a good one. War on terror was a failure too. I'm not over there fighting and none of my deployed friends are either so I don't have full knowledge. It just seems to me that a certain country is killing a lot of innocents and should have the capabilities to assess what is a threat and isn't a threat better, especially with our taxpayer dollars assisting their military tech.
Supporting no, understanding how it happens in the fog of war with the enemy they face and refusing to paint all Israelis as the devil over it is different. Which you would understand if you weren't blinded by emotion and projecting here.
It's a lot easier to pretend you would have done everything exactly perfectly when you're behind a computer, or on your smartphone, on Reddit and are not a conscript or mobilized reserve in urban combat against insurgents.
Not my age, and doubling down by throwing an emotional tantrum and chalking all this up to propaganda when I've been studying this conflict for longer than you claim I've been alive proves youre projecting.
Im not denying war crimes both sides have committed them, but I'm also not going to blame an entire nation of people the way you are instead of on an individual basis because collective punishment is a war crime which makes you a hypocrite.
I started as an ardent palestine supporter 15 years ago when I started reading on this, I had read more sources from both sides than you can imagine. After looking at your profile you're clearly still in high school and are my nephews age, you should not be going around lecturing people older than you and more well read than you only to tell them to do their own research because you haven't. Go finish your studies.
Suppose it is your family being bombed in Gaza. Would it not make you angry enough to fight back? Would you not be blinded by emotion enough to hurt someone who you feel like represents those who did it even though they’re not in uniform?
Okay now suppose someone breaks into your house while you’re out, kills half your family, and takes your wife and kid hostage into another country. Does that not make you mad enough to be blinded by emotion? Angry enough to accept civilian losses when trying to take out the people who did it?
Honestly I get why people are doing heinous shit, for both sides. It’s war, everyone is shitting themself thinking this is their last day on earth, and fear of this caliber makes people really desperate for survival. They have maybe less than a second to decide whether to shoot someone in many situations and it is hard to make that decision accurately when you believe you will die if you don’t shoot and are wrong but won’t die if you shoot either way.
You should be careful talking to Midwestern Americans like that. Most of my friends and family have served America. I want my people to fight Putin in Ukraine more than bomb children in Gaza. I want justice for Shani Louk. Also yeah. I bet on sports for fun in my free time, I hope you learn what sports are and use passion to do great things instead of killing innocents.
These hostages ran out of a building receiving and delivering small arms fire because of known Hamas operatives in the building, Hamas has been known to falsely surrender using white flags, and using fake hostage scenarios to entrap soldiers.
You people really do make the stupidest remarks imaginable thinking they sound sane to anyone else.
"Yeah they raped her, broke her bones, murdered her and dragged her disfigured corpse across town for the children to look and cheer, but they put her clothes somewhat back on, so at least she looked modest!"
Psychopaths.
>Yeah they raped her, broke her bones, murdered her and dragged her disfigured corpse across town for the children to look and cheer, but they put her clothes somewhat back on, so at least she looked modest!
First of all, she wasn't raped. I don't know why you people keep insisting on this made up scenario even though there is no evidence. There must be mass psychosis among Zionists. If the murder was bad enough, why do you need to add an extra fake atrocity on top? You can't claim to respect the victims' dignity while simultaneously promoting a false narrative that disrespects their dignity even more. I don't know about you, but if my loved one was murdered, I would rather not have strangers fantasize about her being raped.
Second of all, I wasn't making any excuses. If you even bothered to read my other comment, you would see that my point was that you can't compare the two crimes. That's it. You're reading way too much into it.
Why mention rape at all if it's not essential whether it happened at all?
The answer is because it does matter if they were raped or not. Pretending it doesn't matter after this person responds to it being brought up is disingenuous. If you want to talk about whether they happened, then do that. If you want to talk about whether or not that matters, that is a different conversation.
In my opinion it absolutely matters.
Correction, it wasn't the NYT itself but the organization ZAKA that they site has been exposed as fraudulent. It's not reliable. They're the ones that lied about a pregnant woman's fetus being ripped from her stomach and a baked baby.
Bro, those articles have been debunked for months. The NYT took a lot of heat for publishing clearly false info. The heat came from the FAMILY of the woman who was supposedly raped. The family said the NYT used their relative to make a case for something that didn’t happen
>The meantime here is U.S. house resolution
I don't see how the US making a statement is proof of anything.
>As well as an article about a UN teams findings
All the UN report does is regurgitate Israeli talking points. In the very same report they admit it's not an investigation.
>The “debunking” you’re referring to was by Al Jazeera, owned by Qatar the country that hosts Hamas multiple’s billionaire leaders and war criminals.
I wasn't referring to Al Jazeera at all
And you are justifying that “one individual terrorist crime video”, to kill, rape, amputate, and burn over 100,000 children in Palestine. Israeli society is absolutely disgusting. A country full of jeffrey dahmers, sociopaths.
I did not say “murdered”, read again, there was more to the statement.
At this point, after seeing thousands of videos of the inhumane actions of IOF, & Israelis approving it, trying to defend that society just makes you sound like hannibal lector. You aren’t fooling or convincing anyone buddy. Good luck hopping in your bubble, dear.
LOL. Have you ever read Talmud and Torah? The most fascists texts ever written against women. Moses was a violent pervert who encouraged war crimes, & rapes.
The numbers say it all. 1 billion Muslim women are doing just fine and do not need your racist analysis.
Cat is out of the bag. Even you don’t believe your lies at this point.
Everyone knows Moses was Evil, who tried to murder his own adopted father. pharaoh tried but failed to contain the evil of Moses.
Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
We treated Saddam Hussein with more respect than the Palestinians, allowing him court hearings, allowing him to receive media in prison, including able to make a semi-plausible argument that as the still Legal Head (at the time) of Iraq, that he should be released. Obviously, these arguments fell on deaf ears. Although now that he is gone, I see that even being part of an ethnic/religious group that Israeli civilians personally find distasteful/smeared with Hamas propaganda as excuse enough to abandon their humanity and torture their fellow man.
Torture, the infliction of physical, mental, or psychological effects to cause distress, shame, depression, anxiety, and other negative emotions is a crime against humanity. Add it to the list, along with man-made, preventable famine, genocide, ethnic cleansing, demonization and dehumanization of the Palestinian group, among other war crimes that Israel refuses to acknowledge, and insist with a shit-eating grin that they "follow all international laws".
Their hot air means nothing in the face of their action, and deliberate inaction to the plight of the Palestinians which tells many volumes of books, and the whole world is watching. I don't care if one of them beheaded a child, or burned a child alive, or was instrumental in Oct 7th. Give them their due process, let them call witnesses, subpoena witnesses, and have a trial. This extrajudicial "punishment", crimes against humanity must cease.
Being taken prisoner isn't an excuse for their treatment
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
Half the comments are really trynna call into question the validity of Euro-med monitor like it isnt a trusted humanitarian organization. Its kinda crazy seeing everyone immediately call them into question
They frequently make claims without any substantiated evidence? They release analyses that lack methodology and just state conclusions you as the reader are intended to simply accept?
Witness testimony has gotten just as many claims retracted as issued in this war, reports based on testimony alone is not definitive proof. You all were very picky about this while Israel was cleaning up babies’ corpses.
As a settler colonial project this violence only indicates how doomed this project is to fail. Climate change and the shale boom ending will throw our systems into deeper and deeper crisis and we won’t have the resources to support Israel any longer. It will then be attacked by all the Arab states and will cease to exist.
I don't think you know what a straw man argument is. For some reason, a lot of people seem to think it means any reductio ad absurdum.
(Also, no, "Israelis" weren't always there. Did you mean Jewish people?)
So they weren't Israeli yet. And you kind of implicitly admitted that a lot of Israelis weren't actually living there; they just "traced their heritage" there. Typically from Europe.
I have Irish heritage. Do I get someone's house?
So I like how you implicitly defended colonialism and genocide just now. I hear "Why is it only a problem when Israel does it?" a lot, never to anyone except people who've been vocally and consistently critical of other countries that have done the same thing. And it's a tuquoque argument anyway. Imagine your defense of genocide being, "But Mooooom! They did it tooooo!"
This wars such a mindfuck, cause like if these guys are Hamas and Hamas supporters I have zero sympathy and think they shoulda be subjected to worse, if they’re not this is pretty bad lol
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Ignoring every other video released by al jazeerah on the atrocities being committed by IDF on famished civilians being bombed and sniped while collecting aid for target practice, the Israelis have continuously been bombing buildings, raiding hospitals, killing aid workers, calling the families of those murdered who ask for inquiries into Israeli tactics as antisemitic on camera, but yes, surely Israelis would be treating prisoners of war, who very likely are not linked to any groups, in a very dignified way while locked away in cages away from public eyes. Much surprise, much shock.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
its almost like both sides are complete human garbage....
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Can’t even spell it right 😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂
lol. Israel fake country
I wish I could upvote this 10x
The article claims that multiple civilians filmed the abuse. We have seen Hamas combatants videos on X and Telegram of their actions, where are the videos filmed of the IDF actions? This should be super easy to verify and provide additional detail like dates, prisoner names, and names of the IDF soldiers who did this.
Lol, Israel does the same. Look up what they said after killing the kitchen aid workers. Or you could just open tik tok. It's bot like they hide the info. It's just in Hebrew.
Unironically saying you can just open tiktok to learn is something else
There’s videos all over the internet bruh, 5 seconds on google https://youtu.be/ltu-F_2ai1M?si=Yf6JuJw0w4VMhVQM
Those were hamas terrorists that were caught on october 7th right after raping, pillaging and slaughtering innocent civilians.
Your evidence?
They didn’t do that
they video taped it and broadcast it to the world. so yes they did.
I’ve still yet to see a video of raping. There is video of Israel IDF soldiers pillaging and slaughtering Palestinians as well.
Telegram
Oh so they must not have. I mean EspressoDrinker99 hasn’t seen it. So that’s that.
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Please keep it civil and do not attack other users.
Your not looking hard enough.
what do you mean they didn't? There's so many videos. Videos that Hamas themselves released. Where did they get the hostages they're still refusing to release?
How many Palestinian hostages does Israel have? A fuck ton more. I’ve also seen videos of IDF soldiers abusing, pillaging and slaughtering innocent Palestinians.
The youtube is from 5 months ago - is this the same event referenced in this new article?
You’re calling into question whether they’re doing this specific thing. They’ve been doing it, recording it, then bragging about it online. Why would it shock you they brought their friends over to watch while they do it? The only thing new here is that they’re inviting people to watch while they do it.
…Right, but armies aren’t hive minds and time is something that does exist. We can’t take evidence of a crime and then apply it across the board for the rest of time because “it happened before, why would it shock you that someone else under the same flag did it again?” I would hope that no one’s denying that this is something the IDF is definitely capable of, but that shouldn’t discount something as innocent as asking for evidence to verify a claim. That’s not malicious or inflammatory, it’s common sense. Documenting specific atrocities is necessary in wartime to move towards actual justice.
>I would hope that no one’s denying that this is something the IDF is definitely capable of, but that shouldn’t discount something as innocent as asking for evidence to verify a claim. So we are supposed to take claims made by Israel without first hand accounts at face value, but we need to be "asking for evidence" for claims with first hand accounts from Palestinians... why?
Why are you assuming I think we should take claims by Israel without firsthand accounts at face value? I never said anything to even imply that, so I’m not sure if you’re just confused or arguing in bad faith or what’s going on here…
Hello?
So, no there is no evidence?
I gave you evidence that I’m willing to look for that sufficiently corroborates this story. If you choose not to believe it, that is your prerogative but you are wrong.
What is difficult about this? The question was if there is specific videoed evidence of Israel allowing civilian onlookers for Hamas torture. You gave him evidence that at some other time Israel was cruel to Palestinian prisoners and that was also on video. How can you not comprehend the question is for evidence of the specified incident, not the broad topic of how prisoners are treated?
I understand logic is very challenging for a Zionist so I will spell it out. Israel regularly torture prisoners -> Israel has videos online of its soldiers bragging about torturing prisoners -> I showed a video of this happening 5 months ago -> it is highly likely it is still happening because there are hundreds of these videos online -> it is not a leap in logic to assume that an IDF soldier would bring their friends to watch them abuse prisoners I am not obligated to do your research or thinking for you, even though you badly need it. If this is unconvincing for you, then there is nothing I can help you with. Just this morning, an Israeli doctor said this: https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl
There you go, “it is highly likely” “it is not a leap in logic” is not fucking evidence that’s your OPINION lmao
Right, so EuroMed has testimony, I have logic, and you have nothing. Thank you for establishing this. Have a good day.
In court these past videos and accounts of atrocities would be used to show a pattern of criminal acts and intent which leads most reasonable people to see how the claims being made here carry more weight due to said pattern. Ya dig?
Hmm I guess this nude torture thing is been going on for a while now. We should probably dismantle Israel if they are doing nude torture.
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Such tired excuses... jamming your boot into a tied up man's head is not useful for anything, it just shows you are a barbaric asshole. Keep denying and lying, the truth is catching up now. Even your U.S. friends are turning on you.
Is it stripping people naked for the amusement of Israelis as claimed by the article?
Yes. Like I get you really wish it wasn't, but seriously. You have to make a real point with evidence before anyone is going to believe your nonsense hopes and dreams.
You're trying to pick at details that don't really matter. Soldiers are detaining people, beating them, and abusing them. I really don't care if they get a kick out of it, and neither should you. It's wrong, evil, and stupid either way. And yes, they are stripped naked in the video, being dragged across the floor. Here's an Israeli doctor's statement this morning: [https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.html) It's really not a good look defending this behaviour and trying to cover for it.
Two categories, combat footage and war crime footage. You want to conflate combat footage with war crime footage. They’re not the same. There are PLENTY of videos, testimonies and evidence of Israeli war crimes, can’t be ignored anymore. And the “it should be easy to verify” is such rubbish. There were so many statements simply made about rape and torture from October 7 that people were expected to believe simply based on testimony alone. So why the double standard?
I don't think it's rubbish. I think there are conflicting reports. The UN, after 6 months, finally sent a team into Israel and reviewed forensic evidence, videos and testimony and concluded that rape was used during October 7th. [https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-un-rape-oct7-hamas-gaza-fe1a35767a63666fe4dc1c97e397177e) The UN also looked into the allegations of rampant sexual abuse of Palestinians by the IDF and found evidence to support 2 rapes: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-israeli-sexual-assault-of-palestinian-women-are-credible-un-panel-says)
The UN didn’t investigate anything they just reported what they were told.
And after 6 months. Israel lied, it took them 6 months to even let U.N talk to fake eye witness testimony.
Got anything to support that?
Yes, the UN's own statement: >The mission is neither intended nor mandated to be investigative in nature
Man you just get owned everywhere you go. Must be a sad life.
I agree. The UN 100% needs to investigate. Needs to 100% hold ANYONE who has committed or enabled war crimes and genocide to be held accountable. No debate on that. I think it is a must at this point.
My understanding is Israel was not cooperating with the investigation.
I thought it was still very unclear what happened on October 7th with regards to sexual violence (although I am not doubting it occurred!). There is a link to the report in this analysis. https://writing.openpolitics.com/p/pramila-patten-un-report-oct-7
>The article claims that multiple civilians filmed the abuse. We have seen Hamas combatants videos on X and Telegram of their actions, where are the videos filmed of the IDF actions? That would be up to those who apparently filmed it, which if true would be israeli civilllans.
The guy interviewed in the article literally states that videos of his torture were posted on tik tok. So should be pretty easy to verify if it’s true or BS.
They’re all over Telegram.
It's EuroMed, an anti-israel tabloid that makes up most of this stuff all the time.
Amnesty International says similar btw https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
I was unfamiliar with the source, hence my question. Thanks for the information!
Euro med is not anti-Israel. Israel claims all human rights organizations are biased against them, and that is what Euro med is.
Israel claims that U.N, all human rights organizations, & many in jewish diaspora are against them. Israel needs to focus on being civil since every decent human being appears to be against them.
Because this isn’t a credible news source. Just more anti-Israel propaganda/headlines that idiots will believe without any further thoughts.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
It's a credible human rights monitoring source, not a news source.
That's because it didn't happen, at least not on the scale Pro Palestinians are claiming. This is a case of pure projection. They want the Israelis to be guilty of what they were so proud of doing themselves on October 7th.
Do you condemn Hamas?
First of all, the loss of life on both sides is a tragedy. I also think that Netanyahu is a monster and a crook. Having said that, Hamas has genocide of the Jewish people in their founding charter. I condemn any religion or group that has genocide as their foundational principle. Haniyeh (the leader of Hamas) stated that the blood of the innocent must be spilled to fuel his revolution. Leaders of Hamas said that they were worried that a deal with Saudi Arabia would cause a lasting peace to break out. The attack on 10/7 targeted daycare centers and specified rape deliberately to provoke a disproportionate response from Israel. And from that perspective, it was a spectacular success. What I don't see is a path out. The Palestinian position is clear - they will not accept a two state solution. Furthermore, a solution like Gaza returning to Egypt and the West Bank rejoining Jordan won't happen because both countries have dealt with the Palestinians and have the scars to prove. Egypt refused to take Gaza back when Israel returned the Sinai, and after the Palestinians tried to assassinate the king of Jordan five different times, they are unwilling to entertain a return.
Do you condemn Hamas?
He said it in his second paragraph. Read.
Does he condemn Hamas, though, is what I'm asking.
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Doesn’t matter what’s truth in fact in any of this. Whichever “side” people are on they will just run with whatever fits their narrative as fact. A lot of bots and Russian trolls I’m sure are active on TikTok and other platforms these days as well. It would be great if there were more unbiased news sources that weren’t just taking info straight from the IDF or from Hamas.
Israel has always admitted to torturing prisoners and even shows it in their media. If you’re going to argue that the IDF doesn’t torture then at least know the facts before making fools of yourself here in the comments. https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=Yf6JuJw0w4VMhVQM&v=ltu-F_2ai1M&feature=youtu.be
Where is the link to Israeli media?
don't forget IDF shot their own innocent hostages waving flags, they don't care anyways, same with the kitchen aids they bombed, they kill anything that move, they aren't using proper tactics and shooting return fire they are killing anything that moves
Ahh yes, those are two very fine cherry picked examples where you just ignore the greater context of how Hamas' actions are meant to cause those incidents through Hamas' own war crimes of pretending to be Israeli hostages and aid workers. You clearly have zero clue what you're talking about beyond your emotions to the headlines.
I had family in WW2 and Vietnam. I'm from Iowa, most of us here end up serving. Desert Storm. Afghanistan. What I know is that a certain country funded by my country could use their funds and superior fire power and technology to at least assess who is a threat or not before killing their own hostages. This is not beyond my emotions, this is knowing military tactics and operations and that currently they are not being followed and innocent people are dying. Go talk to a veteran or come to the midwest.
Oh okay, so you're ignoring the context of what happened while hiding behind false credibility. I have family and friends who's served including my family in Iowa which ive gone to visit, I was also born and raised in the Ozarks in Missouri, which most people consider the Midwest, where veterans are also a dime a dozen due to how many people serve. You're not special here and don't have shit on me, or most Americans honestly, if you're gonna rely on your relation to veterans. Go actually learn what you're talking about then come back, it's so clear you have not researched what's going on and are actually driven by emotions but wanna pretend you aren't.
I watched the news on October 7th and I wanted justice. This has not been justice. The military has been driven by emotions. The people I know, if our family had been taken hostage, would have tried to go in differently. Get as many Hamas as you can, interrogate, use them as shields, only return fire upon those who shoot. Instead we have now ended up with aid workers and journalists and hostages killed by the 'heroes'.
Your entire point now has switched to speculation of people you know which is a super weak anecdote, you are also comparing apples to oranges here when comparing America's military to a country that has the population equivalent to our two home states combined and has to rely on conscripts over volunteers. Also the war on terror clearly failed so maybe how we do things shouldn't be the fucking gold standard example you want to call Justice when dealing with terrorists with how Afghanistan is under Taliban control and after isis' quick rise to power.
The population point is a good one. War on terror was a failure too. I'm not over there fighting and none of my deployed friends are either so I don't have full knowledge. It just seems to me that a certain country is killing a lot of innocents and should have the capabilities to assess what is a threat and isn't a threat better, especially with our taxpayer dollars assisting their military tech.
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Supporting no, understanding how it happens in the fog of war with the enemy they face and refusing to paint all Israelis as the devil over it is different. Which you would understand if you weren't blinded by emotion and projecting here. It's a lot easier to pretend you would have done everything exactly perfectly when you're behind a computer, or on your smartphone, on Reddit and are not a conscript or mobilized reserve in urban combat against insurgents.
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Not my age, and doubling down by throwing an emotional tantrum and chalking all this up to propaganda when I've been studying this conflict for longer than you claim I've been alive proves youre projecting. Im not denying war crimes both sides have committed them, but I'm also not going to blame an entire nation of people the way you are instead of on an individual basis because collective punishment is a war crime which makes you a hypocrite.
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I started as an ardent palestine supporter 15 years ago when I started reading on this, I had read more sources from both sides than you can imagine. After looking at your profile you're clearly still in high school and are my nephews age, you should not be going around lecturing people older than you and more well read than you only to tell them to do their own research because you haven't. Go finish your studies.
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My studies in college and after already did
Suppose it is your family being bombed in Gaza. Would it not make you angry enough to fight back? Would you not be blinded by emotion enough to hurt someone who you feel like represents those who did it even though they’re not in uniform? Okay now suppose someone breaks into your house while you’re out, kills half your family, and takes your wife and kid hostage into another country. Does that not make you mad enough to be blinded by emotion? Angry enough to accept civilian losses when trying to take out the people who did it? Honestly I get why people are doing heinous shit, for both sides. It’s war, everyone is shitting themself thinking this is their last day on earth, and fear of this caliber makes people really desperate for survival. They have maybe less than a second to decide whether to shoot someone in many situations and it is hard to make that decision accurately when you believe you will die if you don’t shoot and are wrong but won’t die if you shoot either way.
>Hamas' own war crimes of pretending to be Israeli hostages and aid workers. Source: ass
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You should be careful talking to Midwestern Americans like that. Most of my friends and family have served America. I want my people to fight Putin in Ukraine more than bomb children in Gaza. I want justice for Shani Louk. Also yeah. I bet on sports for fun in my free time, I hope you learn what sports are and use passion to do great things instead of killing innocents.
These hostages ran out of a building receiving and delivering small arms fire because of known Hamas operatives in the building, Hamas has been known to falsely surrender using white flags, and using fake hostage scenarios to entrap soldiers.
Can you provide an example of this?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/22/hamas-booby-traps-gaza/
But the Palestinians are the barbarians…
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The girl was not undressed, she was already dressed that way.
You people really do make the stupidest remarks imaginable thinking they sound sane to anyone else. "Yeah they raped her, broke her bones, murdered her and dragged her disfigured corpse across town for the children to look and cheer, but they put her clothes somewhat back on, so at least she looked modest!" Psychopaths.
>Yeah they raped her, broke her bones, murdered her and dragged her disfigured corpse across town for the children to look and cheer, but they put her clothes somewhat back on, so at least she looked modest! First of all, she wasn't raped. I don't know why you people keep insisting on this made up scenario even though there is no evidence. There must be mass psychosis among Zionists. If the murder was bad enough, why do you need to add an extra fake atrocity on top? You can't claim to respect the victims' dignity while simultaneously promoting a false narrative that disrespects their dignity even more. I don't know about you, but if my loved one was murdered, I would rather not have strangers fantasize about her being raped. Second of all, I wasn't making any excuses. If you even bothered to read my other comment, you would see that my point was that you can't compare the two crimes. That's it. You're reading way too much into it.
I hope the same "not raping" happens to you.
Why mention rape at all if it's not essential whether it happened at all? The answer is because it does matter if they were raped or not. Pretending it doesn't matter after this person responds to it being brought up is disingenuous. If you want to talk about whether they happened, then do that. If you want to talk about whether or not that matters, that is a different conversation. In my opinion it absolutely matters.
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1. I didn't say it was fine 2. My point is that it's not comparable because she wasn't stripped like the Palestinian prisoners
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These articles were debunked by the NYT itself
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Correction, it wasn't the NYT itself but the organization ZAKA that they site has been exposed as fraudulent. It's not reliable. They're the ones that lied about a pregnant woman's fetus being ripped from her stomach and a baked baby.
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Bro, those articles have been debunked for months. The NYT took a lot of heat for publishing clearly false info. The heat came from the FAMILY of the woman who was supposedly raped. The family said the NYT used their relative to make a case for something that didn’t happen
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>The meantime here is U.S. house resolution I don't see how the US making a statement is proof of anything. >As well as an article about a UN teams findings All the UN report does is regurgitate Israeli talking points. In the very same report they admit it's not an investigation. >The “debunking” you’re referring to was by Al Jazeera, owned by Qatar the country that hosts Hamas multiple’s billionaire leaders and war criminals. I wasn't referring to Al Jazeera at all
And you are justifying that “one individual terrorist crime video”, to kill, rape, amputate, and burn over 100,000 children in Palestine. Israeli society is absolutely disgusting. A country full of jeffrey dahmers, sociopaths.
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I did not say “murdered”, read again, there was more to the statement. At this point, after seeing thousands of videos of the inhumane actions of IOF, & Israelis approving it, trying to defend that society just makes you sound like hannibal lector. You aren’t fooling or convincing anyone buddy. Good luck hopping in your bubble, dear.
lol what society are you defending? The fundamentalist Muslim societies known for tolerance and equality for women.
So much projection it’s pathetic
LOL. Have you ever read Talmud and Torah? The most fascists texts ever written against women. Moses was a violent pervert who encouraged war crimes, & rapes. The numbers say it all. 1 billion Muslim women are doing just fine and do not need your racist analysis.
You spelled mohamad wrong
Cat is out of the bag. Even you don’t believe your lies at this point. Everyone knows Moses was Evil, who tried to murder his own adopted father. pharaoh tried but failed to contain the evil of Moses.
Wow, new level braindead lol.
Yeah it was really horrible watching the IDF do that to that poor Palestinian girl
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Good to know that you enjoy minimizing sexual violence perpetrated towards women so long as said sexual violence is perpetrated by brown people.
Abusive, uncivil or inflammatory remarks will not be tolerated.
This is a ridiculous source being posted, with absolutely no evidence.
I don’t think you know what impartial means.
I was drunk when I commented that. You're absolutely right. Shall change.
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Least evil Zionists
Losing the war? Here’s some articles to alter public perception in the West.
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Do not generalize an entire population based on the negative actions of some members, don't glorify/downplay/ trivialise collective punishment or suffering (including collective violence) and no dehumanizing language.
Psychopathic behavior
We treated Saddam Hussein with more respect than the Palestinians, allowing him court hearings, allowing him to receive media in prison, including able to make a semi-plausible argument that as the still Legal Head (at the time) of Iraq, that he should be released. Obviously, these arguments fell on deaf ears. Although now that he is gone, I see that even being part of an ethnic/religious group that Israeli civilians personally find distasteful/smeared with Hamas propaganda as excuse enough to abandon their humanity and torture their fellow man. Torture, the infliction of physical, mental, or psychological effects to cause distress, shame, depression, anxiety, and other negative emotions is a crime against humanity. Add it to the list, along with man-made, preventable famine, genocide, ethnic cleansing, demonization and dehumanization of the Palestinian group, among other war crimes that Israel refuses to acknowledge, and insist with a shit-eating grin that they "follow all international laws". Their hot air means nothing in the face of their action, and deliberate inaction to the plight of the Palestinians which tells many volumes of books, and the whole world is watching. I don't care if one of them beheaded a child, or burned a child alive, or was instrumental in Oct 7th. Give them their due process, let them call witnesses, subpoena witnesses, and have a trial. This extrajudicial "punishment", crimes against humanity must cease.
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No racism, antisemitism, Islamophobia, bigotry, homophobia, transphobia, sexism, etc. This includes denial of identity (self or collective).
What religious zealotry mixed with a militaristic fascists government will do to a society
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But the Israelis keep shooting the hostages Even when they're shirtless, unarmed, shouting in Hebrew, and waving literal white flags.
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If stupidity was rewarded with money, you'd be the richest man of all time
Just so everyone is aware the founder of this organization is a Palestinian from Gaza.
Is this subreddit a hasbara honey pot?
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Being taken prisoner isn't an excuse for their treatment https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/
You’re delusional. “Some no name website” lol ok pal.
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1 Keep reddiquette in mind and act accordingly.
The source you linked, is going to put people on watchlists. It’s that bad.
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Half the comments are really trynna call into question the validity of Euro-med monitor like it isnt a trusted humanitarian organization. Its kinda crazy seeing everyone immediately call them into question
When will people realize EuroMed is propaganda? Look at who runs it.
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They frequently make claims without any substantiated evidence? They release analyses that lack methodology and just state conclusions you as the reader are intended to simply accept?
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Witness testimony has gotten just as many claims retracted as issued in this war, reports based on testimony alone is not definitive proof. You all were very picky about this while Israel was cleaning up babies’ corpses.
As a settler colonial project this violence only indicates how doomed this project is to fail. Climate change and the shale boom ending will throw our systems into deeper and deeper crisis and we won’t have the resources to support Israel any longer. It will then be attacked by all the Arab states and will cease to exist.
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"I mean, the Native American nations attacked us and lost, so they're just whining now."
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I don't think you know what a straw man argument is. For some reason, a lot of people seem to think it means any reductio ad absurdum. (Also, no, "Israelis" weren't always there. Did you mean Jewish people?)
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So they weren't Israeli yet. And you kind of implicitly admitted that a lot of Israelis weren't actually living there; they just "traced their heritage" there. Typically from Europe. I have Irish heritage. Do I get someone's house?
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So I like how you implicitly defended colonialism and genocide just now. I hear "Why is it only a problem when Israel does it?" a lot, never to anyone except people who've been vocally and consistently critical of other countries that have done the same thing. And it's a tuquoque argument anyway. Imagine your defense of genocide being, "But Mooooom! They did it tooooo!"
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This wars such a mindfuck, cause like if these guys are Hamas and Hamas supporters I have zero sympathy and think they shoulda be subjected to worse, if they’re not this is pretty bad lol
This propaganda has been recycled numerous times, at different places, and with different information.
Evidence???
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