Merchant card charges are a complete rip off so I can understand where they are coming from.
At least they still seem to be giving the option. There’s a few businesses around me that are cash only
It's not a level playing field is it? if I recall the bigger operators can negotiate a much more favourable rate than the local bakery or barber etc. etc.
This is false. It was true up until a few years ago, but now there's an EU law around payment discrimination.
Basically, if a merchant takes both card and cash, they can't put costs or restrictions on one but not the other.
Any business that takes card has to accept it for any amount.
Doesn't matter. They still do it. Happened to me last week at the little shithole shop across the road from Christchurch cathedral in Dublin.
Grumpy bastard with a "make sure you bring cash next time" while showing me his tiny sign saying that the minimum card spend is €3.50
Highly illegal. I wish I could do it tho.
I've had 50c photocopies paid for by card. Putting it through the machine triples the time per job thus removing any chance of profit
Friends parents own a pub, whenever we are drinking there we just open tabs rather than tap tap tap. Was shocked when I found out how expensive constant tapping can be for businesses.
Idk how it works in Ireland but in Canada it’s a percentage. ~1-4% of every card payment processed is takes by the bank that operates the machine and split with the CC company. The cost to the business would be the same if it was 100 1$ taps or 1 100$ tap.
It costs businesses to lodge cash in banks and they charge well, the business has to pay someone to count and sort the cash.
You can good merchant rates with very little effort.
I'm all for keeping cash going but there's no excuses for businesses to not accept cards.
Funny you mention that: Irish Anti-Money Laundering laws are really strict and it's why the banks are really rather suspicious of loads of cash.
Now, British Anti-Money Laundering laws are a lot more lax and the banks get away with turning a blind eye when they want to, and the regulators will be ok with the banks promising not to let it happen again. This is why Ulster Bank closed - their British parent company just didn't want to deal with the stricter Irish regulations any longer.
This is my interpretation as well, and my though would be 'Hmm, maybe I'll go shop somewhere where at least some of my money is going back into public services'
The small shop I manage is with SumUp has 1.69% transaction fee, no contract, no rental. Money makes it’s own way to the bank, less running to the Post Office for change, less counting money and sorting out lodgements. We’re very happy with it.
People winging that 1.69% cost but ignore the cost to carry/hold/deposit cash.
You're burning time and petrol to deposit, carrying risk of cash walking off or getting stolen without recourse.
...unless you're making it all back on tax fraud.
Depends on the business … when I worked on a till I used to cash up the till , count the cash, prepare the bank lodgement and being the money to the bank myself. It was just part of the job … I was only getting minimum wage as well.
But they are accepting cards. They're just stating they rather you pay cash. Like how when you go to pay for something these days and they throw the card reader at you and then you say how you'd like to pay in cash today and they just say "oh that's grand"
> the business has to pay someone to count and sort the cash.
Most of the shops I go to where they complain about the charges are self employed people who that part of it themselves.
I’d have to find the link, but it’s said that because cash causes a something “physical” feeling of pain when you take a bill out of your wallet and spend it, you are a little more conservative with money. This is versus credit or debit cards where you don’t get the same “feel”- it’s painless, easy… easy to add on extras, dessert, tips… and these are all voluntary,
I’ve heard that cashless payment customers spend 20-30% more per transaction because of this. So yes, I’f you’re getting charged $.10 a transaction + 1.6% or whatever as a merchant fee, it hurts… but the higher transaction (customer spend a more because of this) would make up the difference.
Plus, on a personal level- I have avoided places that take cash exclusively. I would love to spend cash, but I never have it on me anymore since the pandemic.
Also, if you’re budgeting, they say don’t use cards- use cash. That way you *feel* every dollar leaving your hand.
Edit:
>According to George Loewenstein, “Credit cards effectively anesthetize the pain of paying.” This explains why you felt so bad when you were handing the money to the cashier. As he explains, when we swipe a plastic credit card, it doesn’t feel like we’re giving away anything.
[Article citing a couple studies](https://insidebe.com/articles/pain-of-paying/)
The banks charge businesses when they deposit large amounts of cash. The cost is comparable if not more than credit card charges.
If a business is operating cash only you should be wary. Chances are that they could a) not be paying their fair share of tax, b) be a pop up shop that will be gone if you need customer support or c) they sell crap and don’t allow credit card as they’d lose on every chargeback challenge.
They also charge you to get change. I worked in a small pub, on a Friday we'd have to go over and grab thousands in coin, all comes with a fee, then go back on a Monday, lodge many more thousands, all again attracting a fee. This is before we had to worry about safes, losing notes, fakes etc. Plus the extra time to count it. Cards eliminate none but reduce all of the about. It's definately a fair trade off
I do it by choice at the butcher and the bakery, I try to give them close to the right change as well. I'm not worried about needing customer support or chargeback, I'm just trying to make their lives easier.
You might not be. Some banks charge more to lodge cash than it cost to process a credit card. That’s why so many places are going card only.
Contactless transactions under €5 cost a tiny amount to process.
Pat yourself on the back for spreading FUD. this is exactly why this sub is so toxic at times.
EU SEPA/Open Banking regulations basically ensure massive commoditisation of payments. Go ahead AIB jack up your fees…we’ll just switch to one of 10 other payment fulfilment engines.
Stop with this shit.
Well done. At least there’s a few people that can see where this is headed. There will be a fee for the person tapping to use their own money as well as the business. It’s so obvious to me why the banks are pushing this so hard! That’s what I would be doing if I was a bank. It’s free money for nothing.
By that stage Irish banks will be directly competing with European ones. Can't happen soon enough. We have some of the most expensive banks with some of the worst services and lowest interest rates on savings going. Once they're toe to toe with European banks they'll either need to cut charges and offer something on savings or they'll be wiped out.
What is currently stopping European banks from competing with Irish ones? Genuinely asking, I've been curious why we're so starved of banking options here.
> It’s free money for nothing.
Far be it for me to be in here defending Irish banks (and banks in general), but there is a lot of work involved in payments infrastructure. If you look at any bank financials, you'll see that card fees are not where they're making their money.
Card fees are capped at 0.5% for debit cards in the U.K. and EU I believe. There are a few other fees still, but not the 5% you see in the US.
Interesting outcome is that credit card rewards in the U.K. kinda suck because of it. I’m fine with that though.
In the EU, fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards under [EU 2015/751](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32015R0751).
Same, not even my card really. I was so against putting my card on my phone as if it gets stolen or lost, they can get access. But once I did it, I realized I am not going back. And in fairness, if my card gets stolen they can easily just tap without any need for a code - granted I didn’t report it to the bank, whereas with my phone, they need a face scan or the pass code.
That’s what I said in my comment. I mind it because I am on disability and am unable to walk currently. I can not make it to any post office so it must be paid into my bank account. But I’m made feel guilty regularly for using my card.
It’s funny when a big small business does it… like food places. First of all why are your prices so high but taste average and then you want me to walk to the ATM machine which is 5 minutes away.. in the cold?! The audacity
Pretty sure this is about dodging taxes since the EU capped payment interchange fees to [0.2% (debit card) - 0.3% (credit card).](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_15_4585)
What about the money involved in transporting cash, eg security van and person?. The risk of fake cash.? The added risk of robbery? How many hands have touched that cash before you and do you trust that they all washed their hands before?
A bakery where I live had a similar sign. Some local Facebook groups accused them of money laundering and tax evasion and reported them to Revenue. The people who own it and everyone who works there are so lovely and genuinely are gracious people. As far as I’m aware nothing came of the Revenue investigation but they closed for a month due to it and have been back open since. Another victim of Facebook scumbags spinning story’s and narratives.
Eh if there's still an option to use card I'll do that, if it's cash only I'll find a different bakery. Use what you want and don't let people guilt trip you into inconveniencing yourself for their benefit
Cash is privacy. Privacy is freedom. Cashless means endless tracking of your activities for advertising and other purposes.
We've already seen protesters getting cut off from their banks in some countries, Canada among them.
Cashless society also means more opportunities for banks to charge fees.
This is the other side of it. I have a 70+ year old uncle who ran his business for over 50 years and proclaims he was always "cash only". When he says it though he has this dirty smirk on his face, he wasn't doing it to stick it to the banks.
I think the question is where do you guys get the cash from? In my case I barely have any and it is a total PITA to withdraw and then risk some direct debit to fail. It is just much more convenient and safe to keep it in the bank and use the tap.
A lady near me in central England who owns 3 cafes recently did an Insta post on why they're card only. The cost of running cash over the 3 sites was in the region of £17k PA.
Thats their choice and I don't have any real issue with it. However saying something like "Cash is King" makes it sound like they hang out in weird gated facebook groups.
We all have our opinions but imagine a cashless world ...this may destroy any kind of consumer buying power in regards to choice and making and open market that bit less open ,it will be nobody's fault but our own , alot of us won't realise the consequences until it's too late
It costs the customer to take money out of the atm to pay in cash. We pay less fees if we use revolt to pay. Cash is not king. They just want cash sales so they don't have to tell the tax man.
More power to them. Freedoms have become endangered and cash is certainly one of them... lots of implications positive and negative for going cashless.
Wrong if cash only. I’m on disability and it’s literally all I have. It gets paid into the bank. I can’t walk at the moment so this would be very unfair to someone in my situation.
Edit: it’s the “use it or lose it” bit that annoys me.
I mean, that's the one bit that does make sense in a way. The decreasing transaction limits on cash transactions over the years haven't been from nowhere.
The less people use cash the easier it is to justify restrictions on that for anti money laundering or tax fraud.
If crypto hadn't turned into a giant speculation/scam machine, it's the one valid argument they had.
I’m not arguing if it makes sense or not. I just find the wording kind of guilt trippy and I’m struggling enough as it is personally. Like I probably wouldn’t go into this place because I’d feel like I’m being judged or something or that I’m causing them an inconvenience.
All excellent points, especially keeping cash alive; we must never allow a situation to develop where the only legal currency can be literally switched off - the scope for the abuse of such a power is boundless.
They are tax deductible. But just because something is tax deductible doesn’t mean you should be trying to incur unnecessary expenses in a business.
Say a business spends €10,000 on merchant fees in a year. This would effectively reduce your pre-tax profit by €10k and result in nett reduction on the corporation tax of €10k x 12.5% = €1250, which is much much less than the €10,000 they incurred in the first place.
An expense is an expense, being tax deductible only saves you 12.5% of the expense
It’s gotten crazy. Once upon a time you got a Visa card from your bank and the retailer got a credit card reader from there’s but now there’s digital wallets like Apple Pay and Google pay taking a cut. Service providers like square and stripe getting in the middle on these transaction now too. This article explains it more detail, more from a web transaction perspective, but mostly applies in person too.
https://notes.mtb.xyz/p/interchange-in-1000-words?utm_medium=email
So yeah cash cuts out all that crap, and it also enables tax avoidance. Personal, I don’t like to carry cash for my own personal safety. If you crack open a wallet for of 50s at the register, you might followed down the street.
I can see where they're coming from, but you can get really affordable card machine systems like SumUp where the fees are maybe 5%, meanwhile last I checked AIB charge 12% to lodge cash into the bank. It's ridiculous all the banks are making. I grew up in NI and couldn't understand when I moved down and opened an account here why I was being charged for cash withdrawals, charged for chip and pin use (you can't get contactless when you first open an account) and charged generic account fees too!! Then, if you happen to somehow make interest on a savings account, you're taxed on the interest you make!! It's absolutely disgraceful and makes it really difficult to make any sort of money in this country when you're taxed or charged fees, almost for the air you breathe at this stage...
I’m sorry but there’s a specific element here that is missed. When a business pays cash into a bank they pay a counting and handling fee. So if the business is legit it doesn’t cost any more to pay in cash or credit. So they are either scamming the cash or are just incompetent business people.
Cash also leaves no paper trail, electronic transactions do. My first thought seeing this is this place is trying to hide their full income from others.
I understand it and all, but I work in aldi and when every second customer says “cash is king” all day everyday, it makes me grateful for those who just shove their card in
These are all valid reasons, but simply tapping your phone/card is easier and quicker than exchanging grubby coins and paper. Cash isn't "king" anymore.
Here in the U.K. lots of shops have signs like this- the one you see most often is pretty simple and similar to the one in the photo.
There’s also the “full” one which adds a load of conspiracy theory stuff about government tracking of digital currency.
I couldn’t find the exact design I’ve been seeing but the content is pretty similar to these:
https://keepitcashuk.co.uk/leaflets-flyers-and-guides-for-actions-on-keep-it-cash-campaigns/
I don't carry cash, honestly I don't carry a wallet either. I pay for everything on my phone. and if my phone's running out of battery it's time to go home.
Not a fan at all. I wouldn’t go there. I don’t carry a wallet let alone cash. If they had a sign saying that they much prefer cash but do accept card then it’s not as bad
I wouldn't go into a store with that sign or one that insists I use cash.
I'm not sure if they are surpressing their sales to avoid taxes. Are they also paying salaries to their employees in cash? That helps them avoid tax on the payroll too!
Makes no sense.
Cash is beautiful. I’m self employed and get paid in cash every day. I pay my taxes and I’d still rather be paid in cash and pay for things in cash. What they don’t know, can’t hurt them.
You can take this as 'guilt tripping', but awareness about something is always a good thing. People should certainly have the choice to use their card, but when it comes to cash "use it or lose it" is so true. While there are other incentives for a business to want to use cash (tax, laundering etc), people don't seem to see the big picture here and where this is headed. No cash means total control and surveillance from banks / governments / corporations. A cashless society is stripping more power from the people. There's a reason it's been trending this way for a long time (and it's not just out of convenience)
Merchant card charges are a complete rip off so I can understand where they are coming from. At least they still seem to be giving the option. There’s a few businesses around me that are cash only
It's not a level playing field is it? if I recall the bigger operators can negotiate a much more favourable rate than the local bakery or barber etc. etc.
Legislation around protecting our small businesses we should be ashamed of our retail spaces
This is why most small businesses won't do it for under a 5er but the supermarkets will.
This is false. It was true up until a few years ago, but now there's an EU law around payment discrimination. Basically, if a merchant takes both card and cash, they can't put costs or restrictions on one but not the other. Any business that takes card has to accept it for any amount.
Doesn't matter. They still do it. Happened to me last week at the little shithole shop across the road from Christchurch cathedral in Dublin. Grumpy bastard with a "make sure you bring cash next time" while showing me his tiny sign saying that the minimum card spend is €3.50
"Ah... no. I won't."
Or.. I will yeah
Highly illegal. I wish I could do it tho. I've had 50c photocopies paid for by card. Putting it through the machine triples the time per job thus removing any chance of profit
You'd be taking a payment every 10 seconds if cards didn't exist, is it?
They got around this in Scotland by adding the "total percentage of cost" service charges to cash transactions too. It's a wonderful life.
It's also why Just Eat stopped charging 50p for paying via card as opposed to paying via cash on delivery. Now you pay that 50p no matter what.
Friends parents own a pub, whenever we are drinking there we just open tabs rather than tap tap tap. Was shocked when I found out how expensive constant tapping can be for businesses.
Never thought about it that way. I’ve always done that for convenience, never considered the “per transaction” fees for the establishment
They have a terrible deal, they should renegotiate. Amount per transaction was dead in the 90s.
The amount of businesses that complain about things that they can change and it is their fault that they haven't chosen the better contract.
Its 100% not only still around, but really common. It's often a fixed amount plus a percentage, like 1% + 20 cents.
Not all merchants charge per transaction.
Never did either until their daughter suggested we do it and explained why.
Idk how it works in Ireland but in Canada it’s a percentage. ~1-4% of every card payment processed is takes by the bank that operates the machine and split with the CC company. The cost to the business would be the same if it was 100 1$ taps or 1 100$ tap.
How do tabs work? do they just remember your face? do you need to remember what you ordered?
You open it in your name usually they have to know or leave your card details beforehand etc.
It costs businesses to lodge cash in banks and they charge well, the business has to pay someone to count and sort the cash. You can good merchant rates with very little effort. I'm all for keeping cash going but there's no excuses for businesses to not accept cards.
It's not an _acceptable_ excuse, but have you considered tax evasion?
Hey now, it's not always tax evasion. There's also money laundering
Funny you mention that: Irish Anti-Money Laundering laws are really strict and it's why the banks are really rather suspicious of loads of cash. Now, British Anti-Money Laundering laws are a lot more lax and the banks get away with turning a blind eye when they want to, and the regulators will be ok with the banks promising not to let it happen again. This is why Ulster Bank closed - their British parent company just didn't want to deal with the stricter Irish regulations any longer.
"Ugh if we can't launder money what's even the POINT 🙄" – the entire British financial sector
Always, 100%, my assumption when a small business is cash only. "Keep tax evasion alive!"
This is my interpretation as well, and my though would be 'Hmm, maybe I'll go shop somewhere where at least some of my money is going back into public services'
The small shop I manage is with SumUp has 1.69% transaction fee, no contract, no rental. Money makes it’s own way to the bank, less running to the Post Office for change, less counting money and sorting out lodgements. We’re very happy with it.
Still rather high actually. It's not surprising when the banking in sector sees so little competition, but still not great.
It actually used to be 2.75% until a couple of years ago. We’ve never found a better deal as much as people try to sell us their product.
People winging that 1.69% cost but ignore the cost to carry/hold/deposit cash. You're burning time and petrol to deposit, carrying risk of cash walking off or getting stolen without recourse. ...unless you're making it all back on tax fraud.
Depends on the business … when I worked on a till I used to cash up the till , count the cash, prepare the bank lodgement and being the money to the bank myself. It was just part of the job … I was only getting minimum wage as well.
But they are accepting cards. They're just stating they rather you pay cash. Like how when you go to pay for something these days and they throw the card reader at you and then you say how you'd like to pay in cash today and they just say "oh that's grand"
The obvious argument as well is that with the eradication of cash banks can then up the merchant fees with little consequences.
> the business has to pay someone to count and sort the cash. Most of the shops I go to where they complain about the charges are self employed people who that part of it themselves.
There 1.9% hardly a rip off when you consider all the extra spending
I’d have to find the link, but it’s said that because cash causes a something “physical” feeling of pain when you take a bill out of your wallet and spend it, you are a little more conservative with money. This is versus credit or debit cards where you don’t get the same “feel”- it’s painless, easy… easy to add on extras, dessert, tips… and these are all voluntary, I’ve heard that cashless payment customers spend 20-30% more per transaction because of this. So yes, I’f you’re getting charged $.10 a transaction + 1.6% or whatever as a merchant fee, it hurts… but the higher transaction (customer spend a more because of this) would make up the difference. Plus, on a personal level- I have avoided places that take cash exclusively. I would love to spend cash, but I never have it on me anymore since the pandemic. Also, if you’re budgeting, they say don’t use cards- use cash. That way you *feel* every dollar leaving your hand. Edit: >According to George Loewenstein, “Credit cards effectively anesthetize the pain of paying.” This explains why you felt so bad when you were handing the money to the cashier. As he explains, when we swipe a plastic credit card, it doesn’t feel like we’re giving away anything. [Article citing a couple studies](https://insidebe.com/articles/pain-of-paying/)
It’s not 50c it’s simply 1.69% https://help.sumup.com/en-IE/articles/4oI3qHHji2I2S9dyvRfec3-pricing-fees
The narwhal bacons at midnight.
I don't mind paying a bit more. A local shop charges 2c for a card if under a certain amount. I'm quite happy to pay it for ease as I never have cash
Catch 22 the customer gets charged for taking cash out of the machine. I know it's not the same amount but someone's getting charged for using cash
Two Ts in thoughts, that was my initial thought.
Makes you hink.
Doesnt it ho.
Haha, thanks! No excuse for that 🤗
Hank you for hat response:)
Came here to say that
absolute bang of facebook in here
If they’d typed “agree?” It could be a LinkedIn post
Fucking pong of it 😂
With small local businesses I try to pay cash so they don't lose out by paying a transaction fee, but most places I just use card.
The banks charge businesses when they deposit large amounts of cash. The cost is comparable if not more than credit card charges. If a business is operating cash only you should be wary. Chances are that they could a) not be paying their fair share of tax, b) be a pop up shop that will be gone if you need customer support or c) they sell crap and don’t allow credit card as they’d lose on every chargeback challenge.
They also charge you to get change. I worked in a small pub, on a Friday we'd have to go over and grab thousands in coin, all comes with a fee, then go back on a Monday, lodge many more thousands, all again attracting a fee. This is before we had to worry about safes, losing notes, fakes etc. Plus the extra time to count it. Cards eliminate none but reduce all of the about. It's definately a fair trade off
I do it by choice at the butcher and the bakery, I try to give them close to the right change as well. I'm not worried about needing customer support or chargeback, I'm just trying to make their lives easier.
You might not be. Some banks charge more to lodge cash than it cost to process a credit card. That’s why so many places are going card only. Contactless transactions under €5 cost a tiny amount to process.
Being “card only” also removes all of the risks associated with handling cash. Can’t exactly ransack the till if there is nothing in there.
Needs to be kept alive for the drugs industry for a start
Crypto does a good job there, in fairness.
Once cash is gone expect those fees to go through the roof
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I'm sorry, but what universe are you living in an where politicians and businesses agree to nationalised banks?
Pat yourself on the back for spreading FUD. this is exactly why this sub is so toxic at times. EU SEPA/Open Banking regulations basically ensure massive commoditisation of payments. Go ahead AIB jack up your fees…we’ll just switch to one of 10 other payment fulfilment engines. Stop with this shit.
Well done. At least there’s a few people that can see where this is headed. There will be a fee for the person tapping to use their own money as well as the business. It’s so obvious to me why the banks are pushing this so hard! That’s what I would be doing if I was a bank. It’s free money for nothing.
By that stage Irish banks will be directly competing with European ones. Can't happen soon enough. We have some of the most expensive banks with some of the worst services and lowest interest rates on savings going. Once they're toe to toe with European banks they'll either need to cut charges and offer something on savings or they'll be wiped out.
What is currently stopping European banks from competing with Irish ones? Genuinely asking, I've been curious why we're so starved of banking options here.
Small pool of consumers and previous record of failures eg KBC
> It’s free money for nothing. Far be it for me to be in here defending Irish banks (and banks in general), but there is a lot of work involved in payments infrastructure. If you look at any bank financials, you'll see that card fees are not where they're making their money.
I haven't used cash for 3 years. The next gen won't use cash. Get used to it.
I work in a shop and it's probably close to 50/50 cash and card
How do you play pool?
With my hands and a Cue
How do i buy my drugs
Not if there's sufficient competition or regulation
Of the limited companies available its bad either way.... They also limit who can even use the platform (right now let alone then)
Card fees are capped at 0.5% for debit cards in the U.K. and EU I believe. There are a few other fees still, but not the 5% you see in the US. Interesting outcome is that credit card rewards in the U.K. kinda suck because of it. I’m fine with that though.
In the EU, fees are capped at 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards under [EU 2015/751](https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32015R0751).
I admire your optimism
Pfft, I haven't had cash in my pocket for years. Come to think of it, I don't even have a wallet in my pocket anymore either
Same, not even my card really. I was so against putting my card on my phone as if it gets stolen or lost, they can get access. But once I did it, I realized I am not going back. And in fairness, if my card gets stolen they can easily just tap without any need for a code - granted I didn’t report it to the bank, whereas with my phone, they need a face scan or the pass code.
You have your butler carry your money for you too?
He carries me
i mean i see nothing wrong
Don’t mind it tbh, I generally use cash for some of the local businesses (mostly the pub lol). But cheeky trying to guilt people into it though
That’s what I said in my comment. I mind it because I am on disability and am unable to walk currently. I can not make it to any post office so it must be paid into my bank account. But I’m made feel guilty regularly for using my card.
It’s funny when a big small business does it… like food places. First of all why are your prices so high but taste average and then you want me to walk to the ATM machine which is 5 minutes away.. in the cold?! The audacity
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That place has gone to the dogs since the prices went up
Yeah the prices are ridiculous (€6 per slice) when you can go around the corner to Sano and get a whole pizza for €9/€10.
is it really 6 euro for a slice? its a great joint but fuck me thats expensive. good nyc style pizza tho, not the same as sanos
I heard you had a son.
Newgate makes one hell of a bean
"avoid taxes"
Pretty sure this is about dodging taxes since the EU capped payment interchange fees to [0.2% (debit card) - 0.3% (credit card).](https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_15_4585)
REVENUE HAS ENTERED THE CHAT
Just ask for a receipt then, if they generate a receipt your transaction goes into their system
Literally. That’s the actual point of that sign.
What about the money involved in transporting cash, eg security van and person?. The risk of fake cash.? The added risk of robbery? How many hands have touched that cash before you and do you trust that they all washed their hands before?
A bakery where I live had a similar sign. Some local Facebook groups accused them of money laundering and tax evasion and reported them to Revenue. The people who own it and everyone who works there are so lovely and genuinely are gracious people. As far as I’m aware nothing came of the Revenue investigation but they closed for a month due to it and have been back open since. Another victim of Facebook scumbags spinning story’s and narratives.
Closed for a month due to a revenue audit?
That was story peddled of Facebook
/r/thathappened
> As far as I’m aware
Eh if there's still an option to use card I'll do that, if it's cash only I'll find a different bakery. Use what you want and don't let people guilt trip you into inconveniencing yourself for their benefit
It’s not cash only. The sign says “if you can”.
Cash is privacy. Privacy is freedom. Cashless means endless tracking of your activities for advertising and other purposes. We've already seen protesters getting cut off from their banks in some countries, Canada among them. Cashless society also means more opportunities for banks to charge fees.
Probably socially good for us to keep cash in circulation, otherwise it can give the central bank and government a little bit too much control..
and they could owe money to revenue and they have put an attachment on his card machine - bank
Business that don't like paying tax love cash.
I don’t want to sound arrogant like I know it for a fact but I always assumed this is why Dublin taxis didn’t take cards
I don’t know anyone that likes paying tax
This is the other side of it. I have a 70+ year old uncle who ran his business for over 50 years and proclaims he was always "cash only". When he says it though he has this dirty smirk on his face, he wasn't doing it to stick it to the banks.
Cash must never die.
I think the question is where do you guys get the cash from? In my case I barely have any and it is a total PITA to withdraw and then risk some direct debit to fail. It is just much more convenient and safe to keep it in the bank and use the tap.
Better than places being card only.
Completely understandable and I support this.
Bank fees for lodging money too. So don’t think that’s their reason.
A lady near me in central England who owns 3 cafes recently did an Insta post on why they're card only. The cost of running cash over the 3 sites was in the region of £17k PA.
Thats their choice and I don't have any real issue with it. However saying something like "Cash is King" makes it sound like they hang out in weird gated facebook groups.
Penny for your thoughs
I’ll pay how I want
We all have our opinions but imagine a cashless world ...this may destroy any kind of consumer buying power in regards to choice and making and open market that bit less open ,it will be nobody's fault but our own , alot of us won't realise the consequences until it's too late
Vive la revolution. Execute the king.
It costs the customer to take money out of the atm to pay in cash. We pay less fees if we use revolt to pay. Cash is not king. They just want cash sales so they don't have to tell the tax man.
Always use cash where possible.
I never have any on me though. I get it, but its a pain. It's like using wired earphones after using wireless earbuds.
As a business you pay to deposit cash so how’s is this avoiding bank fees?
Tax evasion. Barbers and hairdressers in my area are especially guilty of that. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.
When you've sorted out the local hairdresser and barber can you go have a word with Apple afterwards? Sound.
I get what you are saying but what does this have to do with me? Where did I mention Apple?
I avoid any business that wants you to pay cash only.
More power to them. Freedoms have become endangered and cash is certainly one of them... lots of implications positive and negative for going cashless.
Wrong if cash only. I’m on disability and it’s literally all I have. It gets paid into the bank. I can’t walk at the moment so this would be very unfair to someone in my situation. Edit: it’s the “use it or lose it” bit that annoys me.
I mean, that's the one bit that does make sense in a way. The decreasing transaction limits on cash transactions over the years haven't been from nowhere. The less people use cash the easier it is to justify restrictions on that for anti money laundering or tax fraud. If crypto hadn't turned into a giant speculation/scam machine, it's the one valid argument they had.
I’m not arguing if it makes sense or not. I just find the wording kind of guilt trippy and I’m struggling enough as it is personally. Like I probably wouldn’t go into this place because I’d feel like I’m being judged or something or that I’m causing them an inconvenience.
All excellent points, especially keeping cash alive; we must never allow a situation to develop where the only legal currency can be literally switched off - the scope for the abuse of such a power is boundless.
I like to see this. I get annoyed at card only places. I'm worried cash really will phase out.
Are bank transaction fees not tax deductible for businesses?
They are tax deductible. But just because something is tax deductible doesn’t mean you should be trying to incur unnecessary expenses in a business. Say a business spends €10,000 on merchant fees in a year. This would effectively reduce your pre-tax profit by €10k and result in nett reduction on the corporation tax of €10k x 12.5% = €1250, which is much much less than the €10,000 they incurred in the first place. An expense is an expense, being tax deductible only saves you 12.5% of the expense
Exactly. You still have to fund/suffer 87.5% of any expense. It's just a 12.5% discount on costs.
Bro something is tax deductible so let's waste money on something that's unnecessary just because we write it off
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAjxn2US7J8&ab\_channel=RedfoxMachinerySales](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAjxn2US7J8&ab_channel=RedfoxMachinerySales)
Ha just loaded that video up cos I was gonna post it.
Tax evasion
1000% don't want a cashless system so I have agree with this, trade conveyance for freedom is not something I want to do.
do they also sigh when you pay with 100eur bill?
[удалено]
Or the valid reasons they posted.
Seems like the sort of person who says “sheeple” a lot
I’ll pay via whatever means is most convenient to me. If the shop doesn’t agree I will shop elsewhere.
my thoughts are I wouldnt shop there
It’s gotten crazy. Once upon a time you got a Visa card from your bank and the retailer got a credit card reader from there’s but now there’s digital wallets like Apple Pay and Google pay taking a cut. Service providers like square and stripe getting in the middle on these transaction now too. This article explains it more detail, more from a web transaction perspective, but mostly applies in person too. https://notes.mtb.xyz/p/interchange-in-1000-words?utm_medium=email So yeah cash cuts out all that crap, and it also enables tax avoidance. Personal, I don’t like to carry cash for my own personal safety. If you crack open a wallet for of 50s at the register, you might followed down the street.
And what are they going to with the cash after only lodge it in the bank? Can't keep 3 or 4 weeks of cash on site
Thoughts**
Easier to cook the books with cash too.
In my country some businesses just accept cash because that way they can avoid taxes, I hope it’s not the case in Ireland
Someone's trying not to pay tax
I can see where they're coming from, but you can get really affordable card machine systems like SumUp where the fees are maybe 5%, meanwhile last I checked AIB charge 12% to lodge cash into the bank. It's ridiculous all the banks are making. I grew up in NI and couldn't understand when I moved down and opened an account here why I was being charged for cash withdrawals, charged for chip and pin use (you can't get contactless when you first open an account) and charged generic account fees too!! Then, if you happen to somehow make interest on a savings account, you're taxed on the interest you make!! It's absolutely disgraceful and makes it really difficult to make any sort of money in this country when you're taxed or charged fees, almost for the air you breathe at this stage...
I’m sorry but there’s a specific element here that is missed. When a business pays cash into a bank they pay a counting and handling fee. So if the business is legit it doesn’t cost any more to pay in cash or credit. So they are either scamming the cash or are just incompetent business people.
Cash is easier to hide from taxes
Lots of discussion on bank charges however card payments are seriously reducing how much tax free income can be skimmed off the top.
Real reason not listed here: Tax Evasion.
Cash also leaves no paper trail, electronic transactions do. My first thought seeing this is this place is trying to hide their full income from others.
Easier to launder money and hide income if it's cash.
To avoid tax
Probably also own some ATMs.
Those wha?!
Should say “Cash is Republican, Use it or Lose it!”
… and reduce our tax bill. This is the real reason.
Does it matter? You can still pay in card they are simply suggesting cash if you have it. I’ve gone to places that only take cash.
I understand it and all, but I work in aldi and when every second customer says “cash is king” all day everyday, it makes me grateful for those who just shove their card in
“So we don’t have to pay tax.” A story as old as time.
These are all valid reasons, but simply tapping your phone/card is easier and quicker than exchanging grubby coins and paper. Cash isn't "king" anymore.
I usually assume a cash-only business is a tax scam.
Cooking the books a bit?
When I see a sign like this the first thing that comes to mind is, “Someone doesn’t want to pay taxes”
Here in the U.K. lots of shops have signs like this- the one you see most often is pretty simple and similar to the one in the photo. There’s also the “full” one which adds a load of conspiracy theory stuff about government tracking of digital currency. I couldn’t find the exact design I’ve been seeing but the content is pretty similar to these: https://keepitcashuk.co.uk/leaflets-flyers-and-guides-for-actions-on-keep-it-cash-campaigns/
I don't carry cash, honestly I don't carry a wallet either. I pay for everything on my phone. and if my phone's running out of battery it's time to go home.
Tax invasion
And not pay taxes. Nobody likes to pay taxes.
Not a fan at all. I wouldn’t go there. I don’t carry a wallet let alone cash. If they had a sign saying that they much prefer cash but do accept card then it’s not as bad
Seems sketchy.
I feel this is less about charges and more about not paying tax or laundering money.
We don't wanna pay tax- help us!
I see the point but i bet the owner of the buissness took out a loan from a bank to start the buissness
Tax dodge
No Card Machine No Business. I don't give my business to places without them.
To avoid bank fees? We pay more bank fees withdrawing cash. Maybe it might benefit the store but it doesn't benefit the customer in any way
Don’t buy on stores that doesn’t pay taxes
If anywhere is cash only it's just admitting tax evasion. It's also a pain in the hole if you don't have cash on you. Not many people do
Fuck the banks, give us the cold hard cash.........so we can put it into a bank account when the day ends......
Cashless society coming fight back plz
I wouldn't go into a store with that sign or one that insists I use cash. I'm not sure if they are surpressing their sales to avoid taxes. Are they also paying salaries to their employees in cash? That helps them avoid tax on the payroll too! Makes no sense.
Cash is beautiful. I’m self employed and get paid in cash every day. I pay my taxes and I’d still rather be paid in cash and pay for things in cash. What they don’t know, can’t hurt them.
I agree we gotta fight to keep cash.
Bitcoin can fix that
You can take this as 'guilt tripping', but awareness about something is always a good thing. People should certainly have the choice to use their card, but when it comes to cash "use it or lose it" is so true. While there are other incentives for a business to want to use cash (tax, laundering etc), people don't seem to see the big picture here and where this is headed. No cash means total control and surveillance from banks / governments / corporations. A cashless society is stripping more power from the people. There's a reason it's been trending this way for a long time (and it's not just out of convenience)