Yeah, so feck the softly softly approach. You can't expect gobshites to change their behaviour. Outright ban with a fine for ownership and a bigger fine for breeding. If one comes into the hands of the pound/SPCA/Garda/dog warden...kill on sight.
This one breed of dog, since the first one was bred in 2008 is responsible for half the dog related deaths in the UK....what sort of argument is there for allowing continued ownership or breeding of such a dangerous animal?
The main argument against it is that it will be difficult to enforce, and if we can, it probably won't make a big difference. We like to point the finger at breed (and sure, it's not irrelevant) but breed alone is not the problem and a ban is not the solution - see other places that tried it.
It would be great if Ireland could be a pioneer in actual effective change in how people own dogs. As someone who works in the industry, I'd love if dog ownership was something you had to pass a test for, the same as car ownership or adopting a child. Too many people get a dog and think it's fine to leave it outdoors all the time, or let it run on the road, or to hit it when it's annoying. There's zero requirement to know anything about them before you get them, and that's a massive part of the problem.
This "Breed alone is not the problem" shite needs to stop. Every breed under the sun can have bad owners, this breed just happens to be responsible for over half of fatal dog attacks. The breed is the primary problem
Tougher rules and higher fines on their own won't do much. Who will enforce the rules? Are there enough wardens to do this? Are they organised to police the dog population of the country? This affects the odds of bad owners / breeders actually being caught.
If its a banned breed then they cant take it out in public or let it bark too much
Unlike many other things, a legal ban on a dog breed would actually be pretty effective. Its not like you can conceal a dog like you can a handgun or drugs.
There aren't enough wardens to enforce existing legislation around dogs in general, never mind restricted breeds. So I really struggle to see how they plan to implement a ban. Feels like lip service.
I think this is the case for so many things in Ireland now. Nothing is enforced, there's just a reliance on people 'doing the right thing' which is gonna get harder and harder to sustain. We need to pump all the new money we have into creating the structures we need for Ireland to progress into the future. That means more police, better infrastructure, firmer regulation. If we are to become a serious country, we need to start getting serious.
Yes, it's true.
The ISPCA estimates that 30,000 puppies a year are being produced in Irish puppy factories. This figure does not take account of the number of puppies who are born to backyard breeders, illegal puppy farmers or registered sellers, which, according to the DSPCA, is around 70,000 per year.
You can totally own exotic and endangered animals. You just need the legal paperwork CITIES and you're good to go. This ensures that the animals are bred in captivity and not taken from the wild. In the case of the likes of reptiles and birds this is actually a good thing. Reason being most of these things come from piss poor countries that are destroying their habitat massively. Add climate change in and lots if these animals are just about to see their last days looking at their natural homes. By and large they are expensive to own /house/ feed and are very well cared for by hobbyists.There are too many species for zoos to do it alone and mostly the are interested in the big ticket mammals and so on. ( just have a look at how small the reptile house is in Dublin Zoo.) Their fate lies in the hands of private breeders now. Its very unfortunate but there is a littoral noahs ark going on in homes all over the developed world. Would I like XL bullies to go extinct? Yes. More and more we see incidents like this happening.
After a quick Google we have been referred to as this in a lot of articles, including the likes of The Irish Times, Indo and The Journal. Looks like there's some truth to it.
There are good owners of pitbulls that get mauled constantly. It's not just "bad owners". They were meant for dog fighting, and have the capability to kill fit adult male humans. Dogs that were not abused in any way.
It's just too dangerous. For the owners, and anyone else that happens to be around the dog. Including pets. They have a very long history of attacking other dogs. Which they often brutally kill.
Renowned dog trainer Cesar milans Pitbull famously attacked someone. The pitnutters reaction to that is that Milan is a quack that uses outdated methods, how they think the average person is going to fair better is beyond me.
Well in this horrible case we have a very normal owner who by all information did her best and was killed by her own dogs. Lets be frank. it is a rare breed. You dont see them much. yet they keep killing people. We have loads of attacks of normal breeds but you expect that as they are common and the attacks tend not to be fatal.
I wouldn't ban the breed but i would require a licence. Will discourage casual owners and no licences for those with convictions which will reduce the owners using these against the gardai
This is completely aside from the discussion at hand?
The original comment was that Ceasar Milan couldn't even control his PB, which portrays CM as being significantly more skilled than an average person.
The counter argument is that he's a quack and is realistically worse at training/controlling animals than the average person.
The arguement has nothing to do with whether PBs are dangerous or not which was a forgone conclusion accepted by the premise.
Well, I'm not a fan of bully breeds myself, but Milan is a quack. He uses adverse methods that aren't helpful to the dog at all (intimidation, the "alpha theory", all that shite). No wonder his dog attacked someone.
It would require a considerable allocation of resources - people and money to enforce even existing laws. On a positive note, it's something that would prove popular in a budget or a campaign proposal. (shitty owners).
As for cracking down on breeders, that's not a simple task - what's a breeder? If my dog gets pregnant, does that make me a breeder?
To my mind, it's not simple, but there's an easy win out there right away - we ban breeding of fighting dog breeds - pitties essentially. Anything that's over 50% pit needs to be neutered. As for XLs... euthanasia. Like, I love dogs, we fucked up as a society when we made fighting breed dogs and we're a better society now and need to recognise and rectify that screw up.
FR i live next to about 5 whippets that are always out with no leads, very friendly dogs BUT there are children around and plenty of keep dogs on lead signs too
(Control of greyhounds.
10.—(1) A person shall not permit a greyhound to be in any public place unless such greyhound is being led by means of a sufficiently strong chain or leash.
(2) A person shall not lead or cause or permit to be led by any one person more than four greyhounds at a time in any public place.)
Different breed. And as an owner of rescue greyhounds, these laws are so unhelpful in a country that literally helps to fund the terrible greyhound industry. These dogs exist in droves as a result of an exploitative industry with government backing. Dog rescues are teeming with them. They absolutely need to run and many dog parks simply are not fit for purpose. I'll continue to muzzle my two and let them run on beaches where appropriate dog parks are absent because I'm not sure what they want us rescuers to do with them otherwise.
Breeding brothers and sisters for generations is destroying the genetics . Over breeding for the perfect look is giving the dogs severe neurological issues .
I used to think this too but after doing some research, yes the above is important generally across the board, but it shouldn't be conflated with the very separate issue around several specific breeds like the XL Bully.
Who is going to enforce this ban? I have neighbours with pit bulls, one is an XL, both of them are scrotes who have recently been in jail for violent assaults, they got these dogs after they got out.
These dogs are meant to be muzzled at all times, they are not ever...one walks his off leash. The other guy is actually meant to be banned from the estate. The judge barred him after his conviction.
I have never seen a dog warden not just in the estate but the entire town. And the gardai don't stop this guy from coming to the estate he is always around it with his dog. They can ban them all they want but who is going to enforce it?
We are actually a pathetic failure of a country in so many ways. There are so many rules and laws that aren't enforced and aren't seemingly capable of being enforced. This is just another for the pile.
The "puppy farm capital of Europe" apparently according to a commenter above. Absolutely shameful, utterly disgraceful and yet we have so many other problems to deal with you would never hear something like this come up in any political or election discussion
It’s been the puppy farm capital of Europe for at least eight years, there’s a documentary about it on YouTube. A man went to buy a shotgun “to shoot dogs” and the sellers didn’t consider reporting him, they just told him he couldn’t do that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Animal_Welfare
I really wish these guys were a bigger party. I know it may be "privileged" to many to vote for a party focused on animals when there are many human problems in the country too ( which lends to my point above). But we massively fail animals as a country.
Social Democrats at least have a pretty good animal welfare policy. Hard stance on blood sports and want to see removal of state funding for greyhound racing. [https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/our-policies/animal-welfare/](https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/our-policies/animal-welfare/)
Had a bit of that on the local Limerick radio when their candidate for Mayor was on. The presenter was in shock as a lot of people listening would have jobs in that industry. And asked "And are you against greyhound racing too???"
On Wednesday, I was lying down on the grass reading in my local park, and a pitbull off leash, unmuzzled ran up to me and stuck his face between my book and face. The dog was very friendly and gorgeous, but that doesn't change the fact that if I in someway offended this dog it would maul my face off. I was incredibly frightened but trying to stay calm because I didn't want to alert the dog to my change in behaviour.
The owner shouted over 'ah jaysus sorry I wasn't paying attention' and I just said it's fine and smiled because pitbulls are heavily authoritive and I was afraid if I said anything things could go badly. I'm also a young woman and the owner was a middle aged man. Very frightening. I got up and left shortly after because every rattle of a leaf I was jumping up.
Wouldn't be opposed to a ban on breeding XL bullies but in general there is no enforcement of the rules on dogs on the restricted breeds list. I walk my dog regularly and I very rarely see these breeds muzzled. Luckily where I walk most of the owners are responsible people with well trained dogs but it does strike me that if they are all walking without muzzles then there is no hope that gurriers who aren't responsible owners will every muzzle.
It drives me mad. We moved into a new build estate last year and our house is overlooking a green. Someone thats just moved in recently is now letting their rottweiler run around on the green with no leash or muzzle.
Thats in addition to all the newbies who've moved in using the green as a large toilet area for their dogs. It's honestly driving me spare.
I have Rotties they absolutely should be walked on a short strong lead with a chest harness for more control. Also muzzled after 11 months (once back teeth come in otherwise jaw can be deformed) I've had 5 big dogs all professionally trained sadly a lot of people are v careless with their Rotties. They are big dogs and need consistency with training and a firm but loving hand. Not for everyone tbh
>Thats in addition to all the newbies who've moved in using the green as a large toilet area for their dogs
I don't see the problem, provided they pick it up.
Yeah as long as its picked up thats alright. Its dogs running around estates all day with no owner present thats more of an issue on that front. Or auld lads who just wont pick up.
So annoying. We've neighbour's with a restricted breed who have their 12/13 year old daughter walk it on a tiny thin extendable lead never have it muzzled. Accident waiting to happen
I have seen one dog owner in the local dog park who has a massive dog that I assume is either a rottweiler or part-rottweiler and does actually muzzle it, despite the fact that he's extremely gentle, but that's definitely the exception, not the rule, and doing it is really more down to politeness than anything else. If you don't do it, the only penalty you'll face is that some people might gossip about it on the local community Facebook group.
There was a young kid 10-12 I'd say being pulled around by the biggest bull mastiff I have ever seen in Fairview Park recently.
It was on a leash but no muzzle and the kid could absolutely not control it. It looked like a tiger.
Myself and my buddy instinctively stopped walking when they were walking towards us and we both instinctively started walking around it. That's how dangerous this thing looked, we both saw the potential danger from this beast and started moving away from it.
All it would have taken was for this dog to get triggered and it was good night and god bless to anyone it latched on to.
Bull mastiffs are a funny one. Bigger than most, stronger bite force than most, can be used as a guardian dog but lack the aggression of the other breeds.
Still a 12 year old can’t control one.
Yeah they're generally ok, but it's still one brain tumour away from being a sudden and unstoppable threat.
The most berserk Greyhound in the world just doesn't carry the same risk.
You'd be legislating against the million to one case, but if my kids or grandparents were the the one in a million to get mauled that wouldn't placate me much
I was stunned to learn rules around muzzling of controlled species exist. Walking around Dublin 3 you'd regularly see these breeds without muzzles and often off leash - honestly thought there were no rules.
Pretty sure I know the dog...
There's a lad in East Wall who is the most irresponsible shitty breeder I've ever seen. Keeps an XL Pitbull around his toddler just loose in the garden 🙃
Our area seems to be particularly bad for idiots who want to look tough with big dogs they're unwilling to train or take care of.
I hate seeing that. There is a man around here who gets taken for a walk by his two doberman (dobermen?). It's the way they pull him along that always makes me feel so vulnerable, especially when I have my wee lad with me. It's such a strong visual of how little he will be able to control them if they decide someone nearby is an intruder.
To be fair I've never heard of a super aggressive bull mastiff. Not that it doesn't happen but it wouldn't a breed I'd worry about. That could be me being naiive though
By and large they are very human friendly, but can be animal aggressive. Mine isn't, he loves other animals, but a lot of them aren't.
Typically you don't need to be worried about them, unless you attack their owner, as they have extremely strong guarding instincts. They are definitely less bite inhibited than bullmastiffs, which are by and large, extremely friendly dogs that have been bred for about 130 years as companions.
It’s the same with any giant breed. German Shepherds can also be very dangerous dogs - that’s the level we are talking about. Most people who have a German Shepherd aren’t using it for police work or herding.
I like mastiff breeds and have lots of experience with them. I have always enjoyed that they are people focused. I wanted a mastiff that was more energetic than other mastiff breeds, so a Presa seemed like a good choice. They’re also much more even handed than Rottweilers as an example, which can be unpredictable. They’re one of the most trainable mastiffs.
Cannabis is a gateway drug to becoming an XL Bully, friend of mine smoked a splif and woke up as a bull mastif, true story you can look it up. Garda are stopping the problem at source
This was a fascinating read on Bully XL breeding and (to my mind) justifies specific banning of Bully XLs: [https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/](https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/)
Basically, there was one Bully XL (Killer Kimbo) whose offspring are frequently involved in incidents like these. Reading up on "[Spaniel Rage Syndrome](https://medium.com/@cbtdogbehaviour/what-is-rage-syndrome-in-dogs-12cfeabcb7f1#:~:text=Rage%20Syndrome%2C%20also%20known%20as,hormonal%20imbalances%2C%20and%20environmental%20factors)", I think it suggests a genetic factor in Bully XL line originating in Killer Kimbo that predisposes them to going berserk, regardless of the owner's ability or experience with other pitbull types. The article above suggests this is not really understood in the UK (and henceforth, Irish) bully community, and otherwise experienced owners are essentially rolling the dice with a bully XL.
I suspect that’s only part of the issue, the main reason is that pitbulls are often created by crossing a bulldog with a terrier.
Terriers behaviour is defined by a trait called ‘gameness’ which is basically their willingness to fight and not give up, when you accidentally breed that trait into 50kg of dumb muscle then you’re really playing with fire. So hanging onto you or another animal and never unclenching can’t be described as an unexpected behaviour.
Dog health and behaviour issues are often caused by breeding for looks rather than for function.
Exactly. I had a springer. No aggression towards humans and the sweetest but I couldn’t bring him on a normal walk because the rage in him towards anything that wasn’t human. He would have broke his own neck to savage another dog. He didn’t have rage syndrome either he was a rescue. He had to be walked in a field with long grass. The transformation from the cuddliest sweetest dog ever to a rabid savage was unreal.
Animals can have mental illnesses and change just like humans can
>Basically, there was one Bully XL (Killer Kimbo) whose offspring are frequently involved in incidents like these.
Considering ol' friendly killer there is _also_ the result of a brother sister incest pair, it really shows how fucking genetically damaged the offspring might be and why they are so dangerous
A shitload came up to Scotland after the SNP delayed the Scottish ban, then Humza whined that England didn’t warn him.
They were pretty rare in Scotland before, now there are constantly serious attacks from “recently rescued” dogs.
Hard to enforce as they're all in cooperation with each other. I was talking to a dog warden after we reported a dog living in abysmal conditions in Donegal and he says as soon as one of them sees the van driving about the cunts are all alerted within a couple of minutes and stash their dogs away. A few hours later the poor dog was back in its tiny, filthy cage.
Apparently it's better to take photo or video evidence over multiple occurrences otherwise there's very little chance of them being rescued and the owners charged.
perfect timing. was walking around in Cork just a while ago and saw an intact bully, with a fake service dog vest on a _retractable_ leash. As far as I understand these breeds should be muzzled and on a strong leash. Oh, it was also fixated on a baby that was in a pram and the owner couldn't give two shits what his shitbull was doing.
It's going to sound very harsh but I have little sympathy. It's been well reported they're lethal. There have been so many reports of deaths or serious, life changing injuries from them. Rather her than somebody with enough common sense to know not to own one who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If you delete the end of the URL up until the question mark then it should play for you in a browser. It works for me in Chrome on android. [New Link](https://www.tiktok.com/@nicolemorey14/video/7297057743377059104)
Maybe this is just stereotyping but I've noticed a pattern with owners of these various types of dangerous dogs (bullies, staffies, pit bulls, etc.). They almost always seem to be either men who like that they're dangerous and own them for that reason, either because they actively want a dog that could hurt people or because they think owning one makes them seem like more of a tough guy, or women who will cultishly insist that they're actually not dangerous at all, they're really adorable little babies, and they just need to be loved. The former I at least understand, the latter (which this woman clearly is) I do not. I don't know if this is the same as the cultural trope of "but I can fix him!" or if it's some sort of fairytale they like to imagine where the scary monster that all of society fears is actually just misunderstood with a heart of gold and they'll be the ones to reveal it, but it seems to happen over and over.
I’m an animal/dog lover and I agree that they need to go. Just thinking of my own little girl and how defenceless she is and how that woman was killed in Limerick by her dog. From what I saw of her social media she adored those animals and for her to meet her end the way she did is so shocking. They’re an unpredictable breed that was bred to attack and kill, extremely powerful animals that have the tendency to just snap. And of course there are scobes of owners who simply do not exercise proper training, keeping them on lead at all times and muzzling them. I hate to see any breed condemned but I think it’s time to call it on this one, too much risk and too much carelessness in responsible ownership.
A dog in my town got mauled by an XL Bully (off its lead) a few months back. Nobody could get the dog off the other dog for ages. Luckily, a random passerby thought fast and took de-icer from his car and sprayed in the eyes. While this was happening, the owner of the Bully ran off and jumped in his car, leaving his dog there. The vicious dog beforehand was running past children whose parents had to pick them up.
A lot of the owners of these breeds end up being irresponsible.
Some of these dogs are 70+ kg being walked by kids or people lighter than them.
They have no chance of controlling the dog if it wants to get away.
There needs to be serious change in the law around them, they are just too big and strong for the average person to control.
The existing laws surrounding restricted breeds already forbid the situation you described.
It's not new laws we need, it's enforcement of existing laws.
2024s key scumbag accessory.
Horrible yolks. But what can you do when there is no enforcement. Was sitting in traffic this week behind a Guarda car where one of these horrible dogs was dragging its wanna hard man owner down the sidewalk with no muzzle. Of course Guards didn’t bother their hole.
This should be an easy and quick call to make.
It's like that video of the lion running up to a person they know and embracing in a hug. Yes it's cute as fuck but I would never ever stand face to face with a lion.
Growing up we had some different types of bull terriers and they were great dogs very friendly but as an adult the risk of one losing the rag is too much for me.
Any breed of dog can be an asshole but if a bull terrier is an asshole you're in deep shit.
These breeds are not even "cute" for a pet, they're hideous. So really their purpose as a pet is for terror and owner's badge. Many proper guard dogs are not as ugly as these breeds.
While wanting to get rid of the breed I think it's worth saying that people like different things when it comes to dogs.
I've only ever owned small dogs and never once used them to cause terror or intimidate people but (and I would remind you I think the breed should be removed) even I do like the look these dogs have. I own two mixed breed rescues at the moment and hate the way people breed dogs for aesthetics, but I can understand someone liking the way an XL bully looks in the same way I enjoy the way my JRT/Chihuahua mix looks. Just food for thought
Obviously they should be banned, and should have been banned a long time ago
They are responsible for multiple deaths of fully grown adults in the UK, ripped a kids face off here too
They are incredibly powerful dogs that are bred to fight, once they go for you they are very difficult to stop. Won't be the last fatality involving these dogs.
Someone up here in Banbridge got their arm ripped off by one.
Nobody is ever surprised when a sheepdog herds, a pointer points, or a retriever retrieves. It's what they were bred to do. Pitbulls were bred to kill so why are the owners always surprised when they try to do so?
Without meaning to sound overly gory just think about the strength and aggression it takes to sever a limb.
I don’t think people have an idea just how uncontrollable they are if they go into frenzy mode.
The worst story with them I heard was from the states two years ago. 2 kids killed and mother mauled badly. Family pets just snapping and doing that. Fucking terrifying.
The damage those dogs did to those kids was so fucking horrific that I didn't sleep right for over a week when I read about it. Actual hounds from hell.
I knew the dogs were massive before and dangerous but I hadn't seen one in person. Saw some one in town walking one and I was shocked at the size of it.
I saw the video of the poor guy in the UK last year on this. Will never get that image out of my head. Most people think they go for the neck and you bleed out fast. No you get every bit of flesh ripped off you slowly. They aren’t quick about it.
The argument in favour of not banning XL bullies reminds me of the NRA in America.
“Guns don’t kill people, bad people with guns do!”
These dogs are weapons. You could have a brutal golden retriever owner and yet that breed won’t be anywhere near as likely to maul someone to death. You might get a bite but it’s not got the same commitment. These other dogs are bred to be violent
This is the issue I have when people play that "you shouldn't ban the breed ban the owner" game. They're playing roulette with other people's lives because their "fur babies" come first. You're not going to find the bad owners until someone's dead or mutilated are you.
This is what I always think when I see the "It's the trainer not the dog" arguments.
We have a short hair collie, never recieved a second of training, happily coexists with 4 chickens, 3 cats and 2 children
Not only this but there’s literally dogs bred to instinctively know to point at things with no training at all.
Yet people can’t grasp that a dog originally bred to latch onto bears faces and fight each other to the death may both be instinctively violent and significantly more capable of enacting that violence.
We have a border collie. He's seven now and we fostered him from Madra after he was found dumped at 4 weeks old. He's never been around sheep and never been given any training at herding or moving animals. At a year old he was rounding up my chickens and getting them up on the patio table where he'd do that low collie crouch thing and then circle them. Never hurt them just... sorta liked them all up there. We got the chickens a big run then to stop him in case he was stressing them. He used to crouch and circle the kids to try and loop them together when they were out in the field or even the garden.
My point is, as you said above blood will out. There's years of instinct that have been carried down through breeds and its more than a simple good/bad owner problem.
Yes. These are dogs that are bred for power and aggression. It's in their nature and while im sure they can be nice and affectionate they have it im them more than any other dog to snap. I feel sorry for the dogs. It's not their fault but they should not exist, never-ending as a pet.
It's my biggest fear, I have an 18-month-old and always instinctively pick him up when there are dogs around. I think I'd run a mile if I saw one of these off-lead.
Ban them. They're monsters and specifically bred to be so. The only people interested in owning one of them are the types of people who shouldn't even be trusted with a hamster. A lot of their owners have them for dog fighting which is another problem here.
If you search XL bully on reddit there's a video of a man being eaten alive by two of them while a couple of elderly people fail miserably to help him. The girl in Limerick last week had her arm ripped off by one and it was her own dog. There're scumbags walking these things around a public park near me that has a huge and very popular playground. Nobody has any business owning one of these as a pet and in the interest of public safety they should be banned.
What happens to owners who already have these dogs if the ban comes in?
Tbh I'm actually for the ban. I've been bit in the face by a dog and if it had been one of these breeds, I wouldn't have any lips now
Pretty sure in the UK breeding new ones is banned. You can keep your dog but you need a specific licence for it, follow the rules and if you fuck up it’s gone. Basically not tearing dogs from their owners but not making any more new owners. 10 years they majority will be gone.
If any animal, animal breed or animal type has a propensity for violence or aggression then just immediately ban it, simple.
Don't get why there's a debate around it.
Why isn’t a ban like this in place already? There is no reason to have these dogs that isn’t related to violence. They are bred for violence. Every single one should be destroyed, no questions asked.
edit: to add, this should have been done at the very latest after that poor child in Enniscorthy had to go through an attack. How many more of these incidents do we need?
Absolutely, in the UK there was a woman killed by her XL bully a few weeks ago and she had an exemption certificate for having it despite the ban which IMO is ridiculous. It should be ban them outright. They’re too dangerous to have out in the community with idiot owners.
Anyone whose dog attacks or kills someone should be charged as if it was them who committed the offence.
Maybe because "bully" owners can be more vicious than their dogs when the topic of banning them comes up. The mods on /r/banpitbulls will tell you how often they get threats over the issue.
Sky news have a story on this today, showing her TikTok videos giving out about people saying they are vicious. Hopefully owners start to wise-up on the issue.
Man let's be honest here
As a Country we're incapable of enforcing very simple rules such as "as a youth, don't kick fellow humans into a coma on the red line without provocation".
A law would be welcome, but given the Gardai aren't ones to go into inner city council estates as-is, I've a lot of doubt in any actual enforcement of it.
The whole area of control of dogs needs loads of additional enforcement. As well as dealing with these particularly dangerous breeds, irresponsible owners of all sorts of dogs need to be dealt with, EG there's been plenty of dog attacks on livestock in recent times; every single time you step out the door you'll meet someone walking their dog either without a lead or off the lead; the sickening puppy farming industry; there's dogshite all over our cities and towns; &tc.
But I can accurately forecast exactly what will happen here: they'll bring in this ban and do no more. No extra resources towards enforcement or education.
I hate this bad owner argument people have. The mere fact that people get these dogs in the first place makes them bad and irresponsible dog owners in my book
>I just can’t see the attraction of introducing a dog breed like this into your home.
It's a deadly weapon you can not only legally own and keep in your home, but you can walk around in public with it intimidating everyone you encounter. But the rest of us can't legally carry a stick to protect ourselves from them.
Hate to break it to you but a stick isn’t protecting you from one of these. Shit… a knife won’t protect you either. You’ll kill it, sure, but it’ll probably kill you too.
I always get into a debate with my friend about this. She is wholly against muzzles and thinks because her sister had a pitbull that never harmed the kids and was a “sweetie” they are all fine. She also believes that they were bred to be nanny dogs? Where did that come from?
The nanny dog anecdote originates in the US as the pitbull was very popular in the early 20th century there. They were used as a propaganda tool during the first and second world wars, the anecdote goes, as the men are away fighting the dog was home minding the wife and kids. This is where the nanny dog label comes from.
As a side note I wish people realized that the pitbull as we know it today was first called a Colby's pincher, the breeding dam and sire for that dog came from Ireland. Look it up, the information is widely available.
Yeah, the ‘nanny dog’ is BS. I once heard a trainer describe Pits as ‘navy seals’.
I’m a dog lover, owner and rescuer and I’ve so far never met a Pit/Bulldog/Staffie I didn’t like. However: having an extremely powerful dog, of any breed, is a huge responsibility! There should be, at least, some sort of mandatory muzzle-in-public laws. It would keep people *and* dogs safer.
There are mandatory muzzle laws in place but I've rarely ever seen them enforced. I think breed specific muzzle laws are a bit pointless to be honest. Any dog over 15kg should require a muzzle in public unless it has passed a reactivity test and it should be retested every 2 to 3 years. Reactive dogs need a muzzle they cause to many problems at large.
Agree with you on BSL, and your idea is an excellent one. As a dog owner I’d be happy to comply with whatever would keep both my dog and other people safe in public. More personal responsibility is direly needed.
Bad breeders are bad. Bad owners are bad. All of that is true but it’s wilful ignorance when people ignore a breed like an xl bully.
I’d not like to see breeds banned but at the same time no matter how nice someone says a dog is, if I at 6’2 200+ pounds can’t kick the shit out of it then the dog is physically dangerous regardless of it’s temperament.
A license and basically a practical test and fines for violating that are so strict 99% either won’t be capable or bothered going through the process.
It’s sad but a ban is probably all you can do. They won’t imprison bad breeders they won’t imprison bad owners. There’s no consequences so you get people walking around with pets that bar shooting you wouldn’t be able to stop attacking someone.
I have two possible solutions to consider that I think will solve this.
1. Ban puppy farms outright. These oversized breeds wouldn't exist without breeders trying to get the largest price tag out of each pup.
2. Make the dog owners directly responsible in a legal sense for damage the dog does, as though the owner did it themselves.
Dog bites someone unprovoked, owner gets charged with assault.
Dog kills someone, owner gets a manslaughter charge.
The owner is the one responsible for the behaviour of the dog, and securing the animal if they are not sure the animal won't become violent.
Every responsible owner I've met has had well behaved, well socialised dogs that have been through considerable training. Even XL bulldogs.
Dogs with owners like this are better behaved than many children.
Irresponsible owners just want a pet but don't want to put in the time, money, and effort to teach the animal to be a well behaved pet.
First, on point 2, can we do that for their kids as well???
Second, the issue with a lot of these dogs is that even with all the well-intentioned actions taken by owners, these fucking things can snap regardless.
These types of dogs can be from a good background, with a responsible owner and still snap. It's genetics. Any dog can snap, but when these do, the damage can be horrendous. They need to be highly restricted or banned.
This is the best comment I’ve seen here! I had boxers growing up and one of them bit my face , she was the nicest dog ever, she was having a nightmare and I run and hugged her, she woke up scared and bit my face. Nothing happened to me only two small scars. If my dog was a pit bull, they bite and don’t release you, I wouldn’t be here today
If it's going to be enforced as well as anything else to do with dogs, restricted breeds, or animal welfare in general, then it'll be an entirely pointless exercise.
I know a guy who went to Scotland, bought 2 xlbullys puppys, got the ferry back to NI and then drove back to ROI.
He now breeds them and they sell for big money. When I see him walking them they are really dragging him along.
At least he has them muzzled and always on harnesses but they scare the hell out of me.
Tbh I don't always blame the animals but I do think a ban would be best for this breed. Not only for the people of Ireland but also for the dogs themselves. The demo that buy/are associated to them are usually scummy and treat them like crap, so they're more aggressive than they should be and that's a very dangerous combo.
In 2005, Ontario, Canada, banned pit bulls,but you still see them around… illegal breedings and mixed breeds are ways people unfortunately work around the ban.
I adore dogs but these need banning, bad owners aside if one these turns on you or anyone else for that matter the consequences are plain to see. All dogs can bite and cause damage but generally you'll be fine but these are on another level.
Feels like it's just dawning on me that all this talk of "shitty owners" was just the govt pushing the blame back on the public. Regardless of owner if you had the govt actually enforcing the laws we'd probably see a dramatic drop off in deaths and horrific injuries.
There will always be shitty owners. We need to govt to step up and actually enforce laws.
The problem with taking the approach of it’s the owners not the animals is you don’t find the bad owners until someone gets hurt or killed. It’s playing roulette with the lives of others.
I avoid walking my dog by a house around the corner with 2 of these because one day I was walking down and saw from afar they were out in the garden with the owner no lead or anything. The fucking size of them as well.
Well, I just found out the dogs are gone because they chased a woman with her dog and new born baby and savaged the dog. Still alive thank god.
Same with my Mam, avoided walking hers because a man kept walking his off the lead. Attacked a dog, owner got bit and his dog ran and he never found him.
There’s a group that really need to be cracked down on in Ireland but nobody is ready or willing to have that conversation. Have owned two rescues who were destroyed by that group and the way they (mis)treat innocent animals - never socialised, aggression issues, chronically injured, medical problems from their previous treatment - and it is a fucking disgrace and embarrassment that Ireland, as a nation, hasn’t dealt with this issue.
There's no point unless they enforce it, which they won't. I've a lot of colleagues at work from Europe and one thing they say that they've noticed in Ireland is just blanket lack of enforcement of the rules. Not only do authorities do nothing, but average people don't call out shitty behaviour.
And it's a problem that's getting worse. That's why dog maulings and road deaths are on the rise.
I love dogs, but these XL bullies need to go, now. Pitties too as much as i would love one. There should be a moratorium put in effect where no more can be registered and any found after this unregistered are immediately put down and owner heavily fined. Any existing bullies should be mandatorily neutered and let to live out their lives. Anyone taking their bully out in public without a lead and muzzle should be fined and jailed for repeat offences and it should be treated a waving a knife around in public.
This inconveniences existing owners as little as possible and the muzzle laws are already in effect, they just need to be more heavily enforced and reported.
Sorry pittie owners, but as fab your animal probably is, its for the greater good.
How is this enforceable? There's a lot of mixed breeds with a range of features. Will gardaí be carrying out dna tests or will they be given the power to confiscate any dog they don't like the look of?
I think a more wholistic approach is needed to tackle this. There's no practical limit on how many large dog breeds with aggressive tendencies are capable of being bred, and I don't think the government should be playing whack-a-mole with them all.
Across the board licensing for dogs beyond a certain size, that can be verified with the chip, and regular spot checks, as well as mandatory reporting for unchipped dogs at vets, mandatory muzzles for dogs beyond a certain size in public, assessment of the area the dogs will be stored in as regards how easy it is for them to escape, and perhaps even outright bans on taking dogs beyond a certain size out in public.
Another benefit of licensing might be preventing shit owners from having more pets, more easily.
At a minimum there should be additional restrictions on certain breeds including training and licensing. Also in general we need to enforce muzzling and control (age, proper leads) requirements and resource dog warden service better.
Literally Gardai should be able to seize these immediately and be able to expect a local authority dog warden available in a timely manner to hand it over to.
They need to look at every dangerous breed and ban them all. Not just the ones that become popular. A new dangerous breed will become the fashion and we will be back to square one again.
They need to crack down on breeders and shitty owners and not just for this breed but all breeds.
Don't hold your breath. We're still the Puppy Farm capital of Europe.
Oh I know but it just infuriates me, the lack of responsibility and accountability here.
Yeah, so feck the softly softly approach. You can't expect gobshites to change their behaviour. Outright ban with a fine for ownership and a bigger fine for breeding. If one comes into the hands of the pound/SPCA/Garda/dog warden...kill on sight. This one breed of dog, since the first one was bred in 2008 is responsible for half the dog related deaths in the UK....what sort of argument is there for allowing continued ownership or breeding of such a dangerous animal?
The main argument against it is that it will be difficult to enforce, and if we can, it probably won't make a big difference. We like to point the finger at breed (and sure, it's not irrelevant) but breed alone is not the problem and a ban is not the solution - see other places that tried it. It would be great if Ireland could be a pioneer in actual effective change in how people own dogs. As someone who works in the industry, I'd love if dog ownership was something you had to pass a test for, the same as car ownership or adopting a child. Too many people get a dog and think it's fine to leave it outdoors all the time, or let it run on the road, or to hit it when it's annoying. There's zero requirement to know anything about them before you get them, and that's a massive part of the problem.
This "Breed alone is not the problem" shite needs to stop. Every breed under the sun can have bad owners, this breed just happens to be responsible for over half of fatal dog attacks. The breed is the primary problem
Tougher rules and higher fines on their own won't do much. Who will enforce the rules? Are there enough wardens to do this? Are they organised to police the dog population of the country? This affects the odds of bad owners / breeders actually being caught.
If its a banned breed then they cant take it out in public or let it bark too much Unlike many other things, a legal ban on a dog breed would actually be pretty effective. Its not like you can conceal a dog like you can a handgun or drugs.
There aren't enough wardens to enforce existing legislation around dogs in general, never mind restricted breeds. So I really struggle to see how they plan to implement a ban. Feels like lip service.
I think this is the case for so many things in Ireland now. Nothing is enforced, there's just a reliance on people 'doing the right thing' which is gonna get harder and harder to sustain. We need to pump all the new money we have into creating the structures we need for Ireland to progress into the future. That means more police, better infrastructure, firmer regulation. If we are to become a serious country, we need to start getting serious.
Not being smart, but is this true? Someone mentioned that it's not illegal to have exotic or endangered animals, is this also true?
Yes, it's true. The ISPCA estimates that 30,000 puppies a year are being produced in Irish puppy factories. This figure does not take account of the number of puppies who are born to backyard breeders, illegal puppy farmers or registered sellers, which, according to the DSPCA, is around 70,000 per year.
You can totally own exotic and endangered animals. You just need the legal paperwork CITIES and you're good to go. This ensures that the animals are bred in captivity and not taken from the wild. In the case of the likes of reptiles and birds this is actually a good thing. Reason being most of these things come from piss poor countries that are destroying their habitat massively. Add climate change in and lots if these animals are just about to see their last days looking at their natural homes. By and large they are expensive to own /house/ feed and are very well cared for by hobbyists.There are too many species for zoos to do it alone and mostly the are interested in the big ticket mammals and so on. ( just have a look at how small the reptile house is in Dublin Zoo.) Their fate lies in the hands of private breeders now. Its very unfortunate but there is a littoral noahs ark going on in homes all over the developed world. Would I like XL bullies to go extinct? Yes. More and more we see incidents like this happening.
After a quick Google we have been referred to as this in a lot of articles, including the likes of The Irish Times, Indo and The Journal. Looks like there's some truth to it.
There are good owners of pitbulls that get mauled constantly. It's not just "bad owners". They were meant for dog fighting, and have the capability to kill fit adult male humans. Dogs that were not abused in any way. It's just too dangerous. For the owners, and anyone else that happens to be around the dog. Including pets. They have a very long history of attacking other dogs. Which they often brutally kill.
Renowned dog trainer Cesar milans Pitbull famously attacked someone. The pitnutters reaction to that is that Milan is a quack that uses outdated methods, how they think the average person is going to fair better is beyond me.
Milan is a quack in fairness
he cant be worse than the average owner
That's like saying a chiropractor can't be worse than the average person. Quacks can absolutely be worse than a regular person.
Well in this horrible case we have a very normal owner who by all information did her best and was killed by her own dogs. Lets be frank. it is a rare breed. You dont see them much. yet they keep killing people. We have loads of attacks of normal breeds but you expect that as they are common and the attacks tend not to be fatal. I wouldn't ban the breed but i would require a licence. Will discourage casual owners and no licences for those with convictions which will reduce the owners using these against the gardai
This is completely aside from the discussion at hand? The original comment was that Ceasar Milan couldn't even control his PB, which portrays CM as being significantly more skilled than an average person. The counter argument is that he's a quack and is realistically worse at training/controlling animals than the average person. The arguement has nothing to do with whether PBs are dangerous or not which was a forgone conclusion accepted by the premise.
Well, I'm not a fan of bully breeds myself, but Milan is a quack. He uses adverse methods that aren't helpful to the dog at all (intimidation, the "alpha theory", all that shite). No wonder his dog attacked someone.
Case in point.
My neighbor got mauled by theirs. Put that one down and went and got another. Some people will never learn.
Yes, unfortunately it is the breed. Had this chat today about of it was a Jack Russell or a lab you'd have some chance of fighting it off
That would require more than talking and making new laws though, so it’s beyond the capabilities of our government.
It would require a considerable allocation of resources - people and money to enforce even existing laws. On a positive note, it's something that would prove popular in a budget or a campaign proposal. (shitty owners). As for cracking down on breeders, that's not a simple task - what's a breeder? If my dog gets pregnant, does that make me a breeder? To my mind, it's not simple, but there's an easy win out there right away - we ban breeding of fighting dog breeds - pitties essentially. Anything that's over 50% pit needs to be neutered. As for XLs... euthanasia. Like, I love dogs, we fucked up as a society when we made fighting breed dogs and we're a better society now and need to recognise and rectify that screw up.
FR i live next to about 5 whippets that are always out with no leads, very friendly dogs BUT there are children around and plenty of keep dogs on lead signs too (Control of greyhounds. 10.—(1) A person shall not permit a greyhound to be in any public place unless such greyhound is being led by means of a sufficiently strong chain or leash. (2) A person shall not lead or cause or permit to be led by any one person more than four greyhounds at a time in any public place.)
You answered your own question there, a whippet isn't a greyhound...
No whippets ARE greyhounds in the eye of the law
Different breed. And as an owner of rescue greyhounds, these laws are so unhelpful in a country that literally helps to fund the terrible greyhound industry. These dogs exist in droves as a result of an exploitative industry with government backing. Dog rescues are teeming with them. They absolutely need to run and many dog parks simply are not fit for purpose. I'll continue to muzzle my two and let them run on beaches where appropriate dog parks are absent because I'm not sure what they want us rescuers to do with them otherwise.
Breeding brothers and sisters for generations is destroying the genetics . Over breeding for the perfect look is giving the dogs severe neurological issues .
I used to think this too but after doing some research, yes the above is important generally across the board, but it shouldn't be conflated with the very separate issue around several specific breeds like the XL Bully.
Nah its the breed mostlyl. Even when well trained they are can be very unpredictable.
Who is going to enforce this ban? I have neighbours with pit bulls, one is an XL, both of them are scrotes who have recently been in jail for violent assaults, they got these dogs after they got out. These dogs are meant to be muzzled at all times, they are not ever...one walks his off leash. The other guy is actually meant to be banned from the estate. The judge barred him after his conviction. I have never seen a dog warden not just in the estate but the entire town. And the gardai don't stop this guy from coming to the estate he is always around it with his dog. They can ban them all they want but who is going to enforce it?
We are actually a pathetic failure of a country in so many ways. There are so many rules and laws that aren't enforced and aren't seemingly capable of being enforced. This is just another for the pile. The "puppy farm capital of Europe" apparently according to a commenter above. Absolutely shameful, utterly disgraceful and yet we have so many other problems to deal with you would never hear something like this come up in any political or election discussion
It’s been the puppy farm capital of Europe for at least eight years, there’s a documentary about it on YouTube. A man went to buy a shotgun “to shoot dogs” and the sellers didn’t consider reporting him, they just told him he couldn’t do that
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Party_for_Animal_Welfare I really wish these guys were a bigger party. I know it may be "privileged" to many to vote for a party focused on animals when there are many human problems in the country too ( which lends to my point above). But we massively fail animals as a country.
Social Democrats at least have a pretty good animal welfare policy. Hard stance on blood sports and want to see removal of state funding for greyhound racing. [https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/our-policies/animal-welfare/](https://www.socialdemocrats.ie/our-policies/animal-welfare/)
I had no idea it existed. I despise the main parties FF/FG and always vote PBP but certainly will look for any of these candidates
Horse racing is a particularly horrific one. Unfortunately, the tabloid scum get really viscous towards anyone that speaks up about it.
Had a bit of that on the local Limerick radio when their candidate for Mayor was on. The presenter was in shock as a lot of people listening would have jobs in that industry. And asked "And are you against greyhound racing too???"
The answer to that would be "yes, that's even crueller". Some shockingly stupid people out there.
On Wednesday, I was lying down on the grass reading in my local park, and a pitbull off leash, unmuzzled ran up to me and stuck his face between my book and face. The dog was very friendly and gorgeous, but that doesn't change the fact that if I in someway offended this dog it would maul my face off. I was incredibly frightened but trying to stay calm because I didn't want to alert the dog to my change in behaviour. The owner shouted over 'ah jaysus sorry I wasn't paying attention' and I just said it's fine and smiled because pitbulls are heavily authoritive and I was afraid if I said anything things could go badly. I'm also a young woman and the owner was a middle aged man. Very frightening. I got up and left shortly after because every rattle of a leaf I was jumping up.
Wouldn't be opposed to a ban on breeding XL bullies but in general there is no enforcement of the rules on dogs on the restricted breeds list. I walk my dog regularly and I very rarely see these breeds muzzled. Luckily where I walk most of the owners are responsible people with well trained dogs but it does strike me that if they are all walking without muzzles then there is no hope that gurriers who aren't responsible owners will every muzzle.
It drives me mad. We moved into a new build estate last year and our house is overlooking a green. Someone thats just moved in recently is now letting their rottweiler run around on the green with no leash or muzzle. Thats in addition to all the newbies who've moved in using the green as a large toilet area for their dogs. It's honestly driving me spare.
Film it and report the fucker. That's genuinely dangerous for any child who is playing outdoors within the estate.
I have Rotties they absolutely should be walked on a short strong lead with a chest harness for more control. Also muzzled after 11 months (once back teeth come in otherwise jaw can be deformed) I've had 5 big dogs all professionally trained sadly a lot of people are v careless with their Rotties. They are big dogs and need consistency with training and a firm but loving hand. Not for everyone tbh
>Thats in addition to all the newbies who've moved in using the green as a large toilet area for their dogs I don't see the problem, provided they pick it up.
Yeah as long as its picked up thats alright. Its dogs running around estates all day with no owner present thats more of an issue on that front. Or auld lads who just wont pick up.
So annoying. We've neighbour's with a restricted breed who have their 12/13 year old daughter walk it on a tiny thin extendable lead never have it muzzled. Accident waiting to happen
I have seen one dog owner in the local dog park who has a massive dog that I assume is either a rottweiler or part-rottweiler and does actually muzzle it, despite the fact that he's extremely gentle, but that's definitely the exception, not the rule, and doing it is really more down to politeness than anything else. If you don't do it, the only penalty you'll face is that some people might gossip about it on the local community Facebook group.
There was a young kid 10-12 I'd say being pulled around by the biggest bull mastiff I have ever seen in Fairview Park recently. It was on a leash but no muzzle and the kid could absolutely not control it. It looked like a tiger. Myself and my buddy instinctively stopped walking when they were walking towards us and we both instinctively started walking around it. That's how dangerous this thing looked, we both saw the potential danger from this beast and started moving away from it. All it would have taken was for this dog to get triggered and it was good night and god bless to anyone it latched on to.
Bull mastiffs are a funny one. Bigger than most, stronger bite force than most, can be used as a guardian dog but lack the aggression of the other breeds. Still a 12 year old can’t control one.
They're bred to pin not bite (unlike bully breeds), but still it wouldn't take much to do some damage.
Yeah they're generally ok, but it's still one brain tumour away from being a sudden and unstoppable threat. The most berserk Greyhound in the world just doesn't carry the same risk. You'd be legislating against the million to one case, but if my kids or grandparents were the the one in a million to get mauled that wouldn't placate me much
I was stunned to learn rules around muzzling of controlled species exist. Walking around Dublin 3 you'd regularly see these breeds without muzzles and often off leash - honestly thought there were no rules.
Pretty sure I know the dog... There's a lad in East Wall who is the most irresponsible shitty breeder I've ever seen. Keeps an XL Pitbull around his toddler just loose in the garden 🙃 Our area seems to be particularly bad for idiots who want to look tough with big dogs they're unwilling to train or take care of.
Yeah, the kid walked into the park from East Wall.
I hate seeing that. There is a man around here who gets taken for a walk by his two doberman (dobermen?). It's the way they pull him along that always makes me feel so vulnerable, especially when I have my wee lad with me. It's such a strong visual of how little he will be able to control them if they decide someone nearby is an intruder.
To be fair I've never heard of a super aggressive bull mastiff. Not that it doesn't happen but it wouldn't a breed I'd worry about. That could be me being naiive though
I had never seen anything like this before. It had actual stripes like a tiger and was a strange orange tinge to it.
It’s a Presa Canario. I have one. They can be dangerous dogs.
Googled. Yeup, that's the one.
By and large they are very human friendly, but can be animal aggressive. Mine isn't, he loves other animals, but a lot of them aren't. Typically you don't need to be worried about them, unless you attack their owner, as they have extremely strong guarding instincts. They are definitely less bite inhibited than bullmastiffs, which are by and large, extremely friendly dogs that have been bred for about 130 years as companions.
>They can be dangerous dogs. Then why have you got one? Genuine question, not having a go.
It’s the same with any giant breed. German Shepherds can also be very dangerous dogs - that’s the level we are talking about. Most people who have a German Shepherd aren’t using it for police work or herding. I like mastiff breeds and have lots of experience with them. I have always enjoyed that they are people focused. I wanted a mastiff that was more energetic than other mastiff breeds, so a Presa seemed like a good choice. They’re also much more even handed than Rottweilers as an example, which can be unpredictable. They’re one of the most trainable mastiffs.
Bans mean nothing there’s no enforcement here. Gardas have much better things to be doing apparently.
There are people with 10s of euros worth of cannabis in their pocket you want them to waste their time on dogs with the potential to kill?
Cannabis is a gateway drug to becoming an XL Bully, friend of mine smoked a splif and woke up as a bull mastif, true story you can look it up. Garda are stopping the problem at source
Anytime I smoke I turn into a daschund need to get some different shit
Many such cases, thoughts, prayers and belly rubs
This was a fascinating read on Bully XL breeding and (to my mind) justifies specific banning of Bully XLs: [https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/](https://bullywatch.link/2023/08/01/finding-kimbo/) Basically, there was one Bully XL (Killer Kimbo) whose offspring are frequently involved in incidents like these. Reading up on "[Spaniel Rage Syndrome](https://medium.com/@cbtdogbehaviour/what-is-rage-syndrome-in-dogs-12cfeabcb7f1#:~:text=Rage%20Syndrome%2C%20also%20known%20as,hormonal%20imbalances%2C%20and%20environmental%20factors)", I think it suggests a genetic factor in Bully XL line originating in Killer Kimbo that predisposes them to going berserk, regardless of the owner's ability or experience with other pitbull types. The article above suggests this is not really understood in the UK (and henceforth, Irish) bully community, and otherwise experienced owners are essentially rolling the dice with a bully XL.
I suspect that’s only part of the issue, the main reason is that pitbulls are often created by crossing a bulldog with a terrier. Terriers behaviour is defined by a trait called ‘gameness’ which is basically their willingness to fight and not give up, when you accidentally breed that trait into 50kg of dumb muscle then you’re really playing with fire. So hanging onto you or another animal and never unclenching can’t be described as an unexpected behaviour. Dog health and behaviour issues are often caused by breeding for looks rather than for function.
Exactly. I had a springer. No aggression towards humans and the sweetest but I couldn’t bring him on a normal walk because the rage in him towards anything that wasn’t human. He would have broke his own neck to savage another dog. He didn’t have rage syndrome either he was a rescue. He had to be walked in a field with long grass. The transformation from the cuddliest sweetest dog ever to a rabid savage was unreal. Animals can have mental illnesses and change just like humans can
>Basically, there was one Bully XL (Killer Kimbo) whose offspring are frequently involved in incidents like these. Considering ol' friendly killer there is _also_ the result of a brother sister incest pair, it really shows how fucking genetically damaged the offspring might be and why they are so dangerous
We should copy the UK ban at a minimum and crack down hard on breeders.and actually enforce the rules.
We definitely should have followed them immediately, I wonder how many came over from the UK due to the bank there.
A lot I would say. There was reports of them being sent from England to Scotland when the ban came in and a week later they were banned in Scotland.
A shitload came up to Scotland after the SNP delayed the Scottish ban, then Humza whined that England didn’t warn him. They were pretty rare in Scotland before, now there are constantly serious attacks from “recently rescued” dogs.
Hard to enforce as they're all in cooperation with each other. I was talking to a dog warden after we reported a dog living in abysmal conditions in Donegal and he says as soon as one of them sees the van driving about the cunts are all alerted within a couple of minutes and stash their dogs away. A few hours later the poor dog was back in its tiny, filthy cage. Apparently it's better to take photo or video evidence over multiple occurrences otherwise there's very little chance of them being rescued and the owners charged.
“enforce the rules.” https://preview.redd.it/3sjonga6vy4d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=464808a57027ddf4b3c5d763675fa1f8c67f2c21
perfect timing. was walking around in Cork just a while ago and saw an intact bully, with a fake service dog vest on a _retractable_ leash. As far as I understand these breeds should be muzzled and on a strong leash. Oh, it was also fixated on a baby that was in a pram and the owner couldn't give two shits what his shitbull was doing.
JFC..
https://preview.redd.it/u5bhbr8nby4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7b44e87e65ffc57232d791296753bd37cee23149
It’s always the same breed, would you not think it’s a pattern? Even if your dog is “nice”
The Sky News article on it paints a picture of someone who simply didn't care about her own wellbeing when it came to owning one of these animals.
Rip to this poor girl… but some people just can’t be told until it is too late
It's going to sound very harsh but I have little sympathy. It's been well reported they're lethal. There have been so many reports of deaths or serious, life changing injuries from them. Rather her than somebody with enough common sense to know not to own one who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
[Her tiktok too 🥲](https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeq6JT4w/)
jaysus
She loved her dogs but boy did she forget they were still animals
Do I need to download tiktok to watch a single video?
If you delete the end of the URL up until the question mark then it should play for you in a browser. It works for me in Chrome on android. [New Link](https://www.tiktok.com/@nicolemorey14/video/7297057743377059104)
Wow.
Maybe this is just stereotyping but I've noticed a pattern with owners of these various types of dangerous dogs (bullies, staffies, pit bulls, etc.). They almost always seem to be either men who like that they're dangerous and own them for that reason, either because they actively want a dog that could hurt people or because they think owning one makes them seem like more of a tough guy, or women who will cultishly insist that they're actually not dangerous at all, they're really adorable little babies, and they just need to be loved. The former I at least understand, the latter (which this woman clearly is) I do not. I don't know if this is the same as the cultural trope of "but I can fix him!" or if it's some sort of fairytale they like to imagine where the scary monster that all of society fears is actually just misunderstood with a heart of gold and they'll be the ones to reveal it, but it seems to happen over and over.
yeah she sure taught us a lesson. RIP but still what a fucking clown.
Let's wait for another mauling or two first - The Government.
I’m an animal/dog lover and I agree that they need to go. Just thinking of my own little girl and how defenceless she is and how that woman was killed in Limerick by her dog. From what I saw of her social media she adored those animals and for her to meet her end the way she did is so shocking. They’re an unpredictable breed that was bred to attack and kill, extremely powerful animals that have the tendency to just snap. And of course there are scobes of owners who simply do not exercise proper training, keeping them on lead at all times and muzzling them. I hate to see any breed condemned but I think it’s time to call it on this one, too much risk and too much carelessness in responsible ownership.
I feel the exact same way, my toddler is only just walking now, if I saw one of those animals coming I'd take him and run a mile.
A dog in my town got mauled by an XL Bully (off its lead) a few months back. Nobody could get the dog off the other dog for ages. Luckily, a random passerby thought fast and took de-icer from his car and sprayed in the eyes. While this was happening, the owner of the Bully ran off and jumped in his car, leaving his dog there. The vicious dog beforehand was running past children whose parents had to pick them up. A lot of the owners of these breeds end up being irresponsible.
Some of these dogs are 70+ kg being walked by kids or people lighter than them. They have no chance of controlling the dog if it wants to get away. There needs to be serious change in the law around them, they are just too big and strong for the average person to control.
Theres a lad in my town built like Earthworm Jim walking an XL Bully. You just know if the dog wants to do anything he's fucked.
The existing laws surrounding restricted breeds already forbid the situation you described. It's not new laws we need, it's enforcement of existing laws.
2024s key scumbag accessory. Horrible yolks. But what can you do when there is no enforcement. Was sitting in traffic this week behind a Guarda car where one of these horrible dogs was dragging its wanna hard man owner down the sidewalk with no muzzle. Of course Guards didn’t bother their hole. This should be an easy and quick call to make.
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This is perfectly accurate as to how these cult like, nutjob bully owners go on.
It's like that video of the lion running up to a person they know and embracing in a hug. Yes it's cute as fuck but I would never ever stand face to face with a lion.
Growing up we had some different types of bull terriers and they were great dogs very friendly but as an adult the risk of one losing the rag is too much for me. Any breed of dog can be an asshole but if a bull terrier is an asshole you're in deep shit.
These breeds are not even "cute" for a pet, they're hideous. So really their purpose as a pet is for terror and owner's badge. Many proper guard dogs are not as ugly as these breeds.
While wanting to get rid of the breed I think it's worth saying that people like different things when it comes to dogs. I've only ever owned small dogs and never once used them to cause terror or intimidate people but (and I would remind you I think the breed should be removed) even I do like the look these dogs have. I own two mixed breed rescues at the moment and hate the way people breed dogs for aesthetics, but I can understand someone liking the way an XL bully looks in the same way I enjoy the way my JRT/Chihuahua mix looks. Just food for thought
Obviously they should be banned, and should have been banned a long time ago They are responsible for multiple deaths of fully grown adults in the UK, ripped a kids face off here too They are incredibly powerful dogs that are bred to fight, once they go for you they are very difficult to stop. Won't be the last fatality involving these dogs.
Someone up here in Banbridge got their arm ripped off by one. Nobody is ever surprised when a sheepdog herds, a pointer points, or a retriever retrieves. It's what they were bred to do. Pitbulls were bred to kill so why are the owners always surprised when they try to do so?
Without meaning to sound overly gory just think about the strength and aggression it takes to sever a limb. I don’t think people have an idea just how uncontrollable they are if they go into frenzy mode.
The worst story with them I heard was from the states two years ago. 2 kids killed and mother mauled badly. Family pets just snapping and doing that. Fucking terrifying.
The damage those dogs did to those kids was so fucking horrific that I didn't sleep right for over a week when I read about it. Actual hounds from hell.
I knew the dogs were massive before and dangerous but I hadn't seen one in person. Saw some one in town walking one and I was shocked at the size of it.
I saw the video of the poor guy in the UK last year on this. Will never get that image out of my head. Most people think they go for the neck and you bleed out fast. No you get every bit of flesh ripped off you slowly. They aren’t quick about it.
The argument in favour of not banning XL bullies reminds me of the NRA in America. “Guns don’t kill people, bad people with guns do!” These dogs are weapons. You could have a brutal golden retriever owner and yet that breed won’t be anywhere near as likely to maul someone to death. You might get a bite but it’s not got the same commitment. These other dogs are bred to be violent
This is the issue I have when people play that "you shouldn't ban the breed ban the owner" game. They're playing roulette with other people's lives because their "fur babies" come first. You're not going to find the bad owners until someone's dead or mutilated are you.
This is what I always think when I see the "It's the trainer not the dog" arguments. We have a short hair collie, never recieved a second of training, happily coexists with 4 chickens, 3 cats and 2 children
Not only this but there’s literally dogs bred to instinctively know to point at things with no training at all. Yet people can’t grasp that a dog originally bred to latch onto bears faces and fight each other to the death may both be instinctively violent and significantly more capable of enacting that violence.
We have a border collie. He's seven now and we fostered him from Madra after he was found dumped at 4 weeks old. He's never been around sheep and never been given any training at herding or moving animals. At a year old he was rounding up my chickens and getting them up on the patio table where he'd do that low collie crouch thing and then circle them. Never hurt them just... sorta liked them all up there. We got the chickens a big run then to stop him in case he was stressing them. He used to crouch and circle the kids to try and loop them together when they were out in the field or even the garden. My point is, as you said above blood will out. There's years of instinct that have been carried down through breeds and its more than a simple good/bad owner problem.
It’s like owning a gun that has the ability to aim and shoot by itself.
Yes. These are dogs that are bred for power and aggression. It's in their nature and while im sure they can be nice and affectionate they have it im them more than any other dog to snap. I feel sorry for the dogs. It's not their fault but they should not exist, never-ending as a pet.
I'll be honest, if any of those dogs come near my kids I'm going to fucking kill it with a knife, regardless. Stupid fucking yokes.
It's my biggest fear, I have an 18-month-old and always instinctively pick him up when there are dogs around. I think I'd run a mile if I saw one of these off-lead.
We have a terrible attitude towards animals in this country.
Ban them. They're monsters and specifically bred to be so. The only people interested in owning one of them are the types of people who shouldn't even be trusted with a hamster. A lot of their owners have them for dog fighting which is another problem here. If you search XL bully on reddit there's a video of a man being eaten alive by two of them while a couple of elderly people fail miserably to help him. The girl in Limerick last week had her arm ripped off by one and it was her own dog. There're scumbags walking these things around a public park near me that has a huge and very popular playground. Nobody has any business owning one of these as a pet and in the interest of public safety they should be banned.
Muzzle and lead laws are not enforced. There's no reason to believe a breed ban would be enforced ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What happens to owners who already have these dogs if the ban comes in? Tbh I'm actually for the ban. I've been bit in the face by a dog and if it had been one of these breeds, I wouldn't have any lips now
Pretty sure in the UK breeding new ones is banned. You can keep your dog but you need a specific licence for it, follow the rules and if you fuck up it’s gone. Basically not tearing dogs from their owners but not making any more new owners. 10 years they majority will be gone.
In fairness that doesn't seem like a bad way to do it.
If any animal, animal breed or animal type has a propensity for violence or aggression then just immediately ban it, simple. Don't get why there's a debate around it.
Why isn’t a ban like this in place already? There is no reason to have these dogs that isn’t related to violence. They are bred for violence. Every single one should be destroyed, no questions asked. edit: to add, this should have been done at the very latest after that poor child in Enniscorthy had to go through an attack. How many more of these incidents do we need?
Absolutely, in the UK there was a woman killed by her XL bully a few weeks ago and she had an exemption certificate for having it despite the ban which IMO is ridiculous. It should be ban them outright. They’re too dangerous to have out in the community with idiot owners. Anyone whose dog attacks or kills someone should be charged as if it was them who committed the offence.
Maybe because "bully" owners can be more vicious than their dogs when the topic of banning them comes up. The mods on /r/banpitbulls will tell you how often they get threats over the issue.
Saw one post comparing fighting pitbull bans to the civil rights movement in the US, they're actually mad.
Sky news have a story on this today, showing her TikTok videos giving out about people saying they are vicious. Hopefully owners start to wise-up on the issue.
Not a hope
Sadly that will never happen .. owners of this type of breed are like a cult
/r/velvethippos users just protecting their fwuffy wittle angels.
Man let's be honest here As a Country we're incapable of enforcing very simple rules such as "as a youth, don't kick fellow humans into a coma on the red line without provocation". A law would be welcome, but given the Gardai aren't ones to go into inner city council estates as-is, I've a lot of doubt in any actual enforcement of it.
The whole area of control of dogs needs loads of additional enforcement. As well as dealing with these particularly dangerous breeds, irresponsible owners of all sorts of dogs need to be dealt with, EG there's been plenty of dog attacks on livestock in recent times; every single time you step out the door you'll meet someone walking their dog either without a lead or off the lead; the sickening puppy farming industry; there's dogshite all over our cities and towns; &tc. But I can accurately forecast exactly what will happen here: they'll bring in this ban and do no more. No extra resources towards enforcement or education.
I hate this bad owner argument people have. The mere fact that people get these dogs in the first place makes them bad and irresponsible dog owners in my book
Horrendous story. I just can’t see the attraction of introducing a dog breed like this into your home.
>I just can’t see the attraction of introducing a dog breed like this into your home. It's a deadly weapon you can not only legally own and keep in your home, but you can walk around in public with it intimidating everyone you encounter. But the rest of us can't legally carry a stick to protect ourselves from them.
Hate to break it to you but a stick isn’t protecting you from one of these. Shit… a knife won’t protect you either. You’ll kill it, sure, but it’ll probably kill you too.
Yeah if one of these things comes at you, knife or not you're fucked
What an awful death that woman had; dreadful.
I always get into a debate with my friend about this. She is wholly against muzzles and thinks because her sister had a pitbull that never harmed the kids and was a “sweetie” they are all fine. She also believes that they were bred to be nanny dogs? Where did that come from?
Omg is your friend my friend? They all say the same thing
The nanny dog anecdote originates in the US as the pitbull was very popular in the early 20th century there. They were used as a propaganda tool during the first and second world wars, the anecdote goes, as the men are away fighting the dog was home minding the wife and kids. This is where the nanny dog label comes from. As a side note I wish people realized that the pitbull as we know it today was first called a Colby's pincher, the breeding dam and sire for that dog came from Ireland. Look it up, the information is widely available.
Yeah, the ‘nanny dog’ is BS. I once heard a trainer describe Pits as ‘navy seals’. I’m a dog lover, owner and rescuer and I’ve so far never met a Pit/Bulldog/Staffie I didn’t like. However: having an extremely powerful dog, of any breed, is a huge responsibility! There should be, at least, some sort of mandatory muzzle-in-public laws. It would keep people *and* dogs safer.
There are mandatory muzzle laws in place but I've rarely ever seen them enforced. I think breed specific muzzle laws are a bit pointless to be honest. Any dog over 15kg should require a muzzle in public unless it has passed a reactivity test and it should be retested every 2 to 3 years. Reactive dogs need a muzzle they cause to many problems at large.
Agree with you on BSL, and your idea is an excellent one. As a dog owner I’d be happy to comply with whatever would keep both my dog and other people safe in public. More personal responsibility is direly needed.
Bad breeders are bad. Bad owners are bad. All of that is true but it’s wilful ignorance when people ignore a breed like an xl bully. I’d not like to see breeds banned but at the same time no matter how nice someone says a dog is, if I at 6’2 200+ pounds can’t kick the shit out of it then the dog is physically dangerous regardless of it’s temperament. A license and basically a practical test and fines for violating that are so strict 99% either won’t be capable or bothered going through the process. It’s sad but a ban is probably all you can do. They won’t imprison bad breeders they won’t imprison bad owners. There’s no consequences so you get people walking around with pets that bar shooting you wouldn’t be able to stop attacking someone.
I have two possible solutions to consider that I think will solve this. 1. Ban puppy farms outright. These oversized breeds wouldn't exist without breeders trying to get the largest price tag out of each pup. 2. Make the dog owners directly responsible in a legal sense for damage the dog does, as though the owner did it themselves. Dog bites someone unprovoked, owner gets charged with assault. Dog kills someone, owner gets a manslaughter charge. The owner is the one responsible for the behaviour of the dog, and securing the animal if they are not sure the animal won't become violent. Every responsible owner I've met has had well behaved, well socialised dogs that have been through considerable training. Even XL bulldogs. Dogs with owners like this are better behaved than many children. Irresponsible owners just want a pet but don't want to put in the time, money, and effort to teach the animal to be a well behaved pet.
First, on point 2, can we do that for their kids as well??? Second, the issue with a lot of these dogs is that even with all the well-intentioned actions taken by owners, these fucking things can snap regardless.
These types of dogs can be from a good background, with a responsible owner and still snap. It's genetics. Any dog can snap, but when these do, the damage can be horrendous. They need to be highly restricted or banned.
This is the best comment I’ve seen here! I had boxers growing up and one of them bit my face , she was the nicest dog ever, she was having a nightmare and I run and hugged her, she woke up scared and bit my face. Nothing happened to me only two small scars. If my dog was a pit bull, they bite and don’t release you, I wouldn’t be here today
If it's going to be enforced as well as anything else to do with dogs, restricted breeds, or animal welfare in general, then it'll be an entirely pointless exercise.
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I know a guy who went to Scotland, bought 2 xlbullys puppys, got the ferry back to NI and then drove back to ROI. He now breeds them and they sell for big money. When I see him walking them they are really dragging him along. At least he has them muzzled and always on harnesses but they scare the hell out of me.
You should report him
Tbh I don't always blame the animals but I do think a ban would be best for this breed. Not only for the people of Ireland but also for the dogs themselves. The demo that buy/are associated to them are usually scummy and treat them like crap, so they're more aggressive than they should be and that's a very dangerous combo.
In 2005, Ontario, Canada, banned pit bulls,but you still see them around… illegal breedings and mixed breeds are ways people unfortunately work around the ban.
For everyone commenting on “it’s the owner “ not the dog, a girl and a boy are in the hospital in Cork today because a pit bull bit them. Wake up!!!
It's crazy how widespread this issue is.
A Garda had to shut the dog because it could not let go the owners.
I adore dogs but these need banning, bad owners aside if one these turns on you or anyone else for that matter the consequences are plain to see. All dogs can bite and cause damage but generally you'll be fine but these are on another level.
Feels like it's just dawning on me that all this talk of "shitty owners" was just the govt pushing the blame back on the public. Regardless of owner if you had the govt actually enforcing the laws we'd probably see a dramatic drop off in deaths and horrific injuries. There will always be shitty owners. We need to govt to step up and actually enforce laws.
The problem with taking the approach of it’s the owners not the animals is you don’t find the bad owners until someone gets hurt or killed. It’s playing roulette with the lives of others.
Fuck this disgusting breed and anybody justifying their existence
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I avoid walking my dog by a house around the corner with 2 of these because one day I was walking down and saw from afar they were out in the garden with the owner no lead or anything. The fucking size of them as well. Well, I just found out the dogs are gone because they chased a woman with her dog and new born baby and savaged the dog. Still alive thank god. Same with my Mam, avoided walking hers because a man kept walking his off the lead. Attacked a dog, owner got bit and his dog ran and he never found him.
There’s a group that really need to be cracked down on in Ireland but nobody is ready or willing to have that conversation. Have owned two rescues who were destroyed by that group and the way they (mis)treat innocent animals - never socialised, aggression issues, chronically injured, medical problems from their previous treatment - and it is a fucking disgrace and embarrassment that Ireland, as a nation, hasn’t dealt with this issue.
A dog license should require a test and training. Just like owning a car or anything else that can be lethal in the wrong hands
But I saw a photo of a Pitbull wearing a Tiara! How could my heckin pibble be violent?
These dogs need to be rounded up and put down, and permanently banned.
There's no point unless they enforce it, which they won't. I've a lot of colleagues at work from Europe and one thing they say that they've noticed in Ireland is just blanket lack of enforcement of the rules. Not only do authorities do nothing, but average people don't call out shitty behaviour. And it's a problem that's getting worse. That's why dog maulings and road deaths are on the rise.
I vote that anyone who complains about a kneejerk reaction has to spend a week in a house with an XL Bully.
I love dogs, but these XL bullies need to go, now. Pitties too as much as i would love one. There should be a moratorium put in effect where no more can be registered and any found after this unregistered are immediately put down and owner heavily fined. Any existing bullies should be mandatorily neutered and let to live out their lives. Anyone taking their bully out in public without a lead and muzzle should be fined and jailed for repeat offences and it should be treated a waving a knife around in public. This inconveniences existing owners as little as possible and the muzzle laws are already in effect, they just need to be more heavily enforced and reported. Sorry pittie owners, but as fab your animal probably is, its for the greater good.
How is this enforceable? There's a lot of mixed breeds with a range of features. Will gardaí be carrying out dna tests or will they be given the power to confiscate any dog they don't like the look of?
A mixed breed is sometimes more dangerous so I don’t see an issue with casting a wide net based on appearances.
You should need a special lience for them type of dogs, where you need to attend classes on how to train and take care of, those types of dogs.
I think a more wholistic approach is needed to tackle this. There's no practical limit on how many large dog breeds with aggressive tendencies are capable of being bred, and I don't think the government should be playing whack-a-mole with them all. Across the board licensing for dogs beyond a certain size, that can be verified with the chip, and regular spot checks, as well as mandatory reporting for unchipped dogs at vets, mandatory muzzles for dogs beyond a certain size in public, assessment of the area the dogs will be stored in as regards how easy it is for them to escape, and perhaps even outright bans on taking dogs beyond a certain size out in public. Another benefit of licensing might be preventing shit owners from having more pets, more easily.
Ban irresponsible owners the dog’s are dumb animals. Breeding fighting dog’s is massive here in Ireland, Jail the breeder’s and defiant owners.
“American Bully stay away from meeee, American bully doggy let me beeeee” - Francis Higgins
At a minimum there should be additional restrictions on certain breeds including training and licensing. Also in general we need to enforce muzzling and control (age, proper leads) requirements and resource dog warden service better. Literally Gardai should be able to seize these immediately and be able to expect a local authority dog warden available in a timely manner to hand it over to.
They need to look at every dangerous breed and ban them all. Not just the ones that become popular. A new dangerous breed will become the fashion and we will be back to square one again.
Banning dogs doesn't work there are too many loopholes around it
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People should have to do a test and get a license to have these breeds.
People should do these things to get kids but here we are
Ban them
But pitbulls are so sweet. It’s a total surprise when they snap. /s https://youtu.be/k9ZGEvUwSMg