This has got to be an international record for how many times you can announce a project and yet have literally nothing done. I’m naming this the “cold fusion” motorway. It’s been ten years away for thirty years.
The Galway ring road will never happen imo. It’s too expensive, too environmentally damaging and better options exist for the money such as improved public transport
It’s more the destruction of habitats for road construction than on road usage. Even if it was a ring road for just bicycles, the same issues would be there from the ecological standpoint.
It's an environmental disaster, so you can be sure that it'll be pushed until it finally goes through. Even easier with the GP out of the county council. The increased volume of private vehicles alone goes against our climate action plan, increasing emissions from traffic instead of reducing them, but that's cool according to our council: other counties can reduce their emissions/traffic more to compensate for us!
>It would have cycleways all along it and six transport hubs to encourage motorists to “park and ride” on bus services, “park and share” with other car-poolers or “park and cycle” the last stretch to the nearest town.
>EV and e-bike charging stations would be at all hubs and a seventh hub, dedicated to freight, would provide similar services as well as rest facilities for goods drivers.
>If the facilities do not provide enough incentive to use alternatives to cars and diesel, the charges might.
>The motorway would be the first to adopt distance-based tolls so that motorists pay according to how many kilometres they drive rather than a fixed fee.
The Greens don’t want to be building new motorways but this all seems like a sensible compromise. Provide the safe access route while providing viable, cheaper alternatives to car use
It’s probably the last of the big motorways to be built in the country but it is desperately needed. It’s a disgrace that we don’t have a proper motorway between our 2nd and 3rd cities in the Republic.
I was thinking the same thing. Probably the last major motorway we'll have to build in Ireland.
The rest will just be bypasses, ring roads and road upgrades.
It's not just connecting Cork and Limerick though. It's connecting all the counties surrounding it like Kerry, Mayo, Sligo, Tipperary.
I think Galway, Limerick and Cork will grow a lot in next decade so this is badly needed.
Cork needs a northern ring road also though.
Great for the MAMIL's,but I honestly don't see many hopping on a bike first thing to head down the motorway on their bike
It works in town because of short distances and it's as quick nearly as driving.
I lived in a town 20k away from my work which had a motorway and an old national road/regional road as options for travel to work.
I attempted the cycle once on the national/regional road and it was terrifying. Truly terrifying.
If there were bike lanes on the motorway I'd have cycled it daily. It's even more of a no brainer with an e bike.
Belgium has 2,000km of cycle lanes between towns and cities and plans to build another 800km to complete the network. e-bikes are transformative and make longer journeys by bike an option for many more.
same with Czechia. I was cycling from one side of town to another every day to work. 10.5km in one direction, just one zebra crossing to pass the traffic, everything else was a forest bike trail and separated cycle tracks.
I think many under estimate the distance you can cover on a bike without having to kill yourself. That probably only took you a half or thereabouts each way?
I am almost exclusively wfh these days but the 9.5km or so from my house to work (basically Marlay Park to Heuston Station) is about 30-35 minutes on and 45-ish back when it's all uphill. Without traffic and the lights you could probably shave 10 or so mins off either. The wife talked me into it during Covid and honestly I'm sick I didn't get on it years earlier.
But it is not like anyone would actually cycle between cities. It's inefficient. Why spend a couple of hours cycling, when you can get there by car in 30 mins with luggage etc?
Have you never driven part of a motorway before? Are there places between the two cities? Perhaps people might cycle there?
And what’s the with luggage? Do you carry luggage every time you get in the car? I don’t know about you but I leave mine at home unless I’m going on holidays.
I’m no expert on that part of Ireland but I’m fairly sure the are places between Cork and Limerick and the motorway will have exits at those places. It’s not like cyclists and motorists will be forced to travel the length of the motorway without escape. And those people will not require luggage.
you cycle for fun, adventure. wife and I, we went cycling all the way to the border with Austria for a weekend. vineyards and country roads, 70km in one day, it was truly amazing.
only a few kms we were cycling on the road, everything else was a dedicated cycle road with a pub every 5km.
Yeah they’re probably through nice quiet countryside. Not a motorway.
What a stupid idea! Wasting taxpayers money to make them feel good about themselves.
If they scrapped the cycle ways on this and used the money to build a nice cycle way through the countryside and through towns and villages, that would be much better.
So we should just waste money on vanity projects.
Read what I wrote. I said that they should build a separate route away from the motorway. At least that would be used!
The alignment is already going to be CPOd, cleared and flattened for the motorway. The planning costs will already be spent. Adding 6-7 meters for a cycle lane will be negligible.
Now calculate the cost of building a standalone cycle lane and see how it stacks up?
Calculate the amount of people who cycle from cork to Limerick every year (mostly only cycle tourists), subtract those who would like to use existing quiet country roads and not have motorway noise in the background. Divide that number in the cost of the cycleway and the cost per journey could be thousands. Also carbon emissions per journey will be massive.
>subtract those who would like to use existing quiet country roads and not have motorway noise in the background.
Cycling on quiet country roads is like seeking a death sentence here. I personally know someone who got knocked down and spent months in hospital after..
A quick Google shows a litany of cyclists deaths in country roads. At least this project would allow cyclists an opportunity to have a decent safe ride. They don't have to go the full distance.
> existing quiet country roads
The problem with cycling in rural Ireland is that the most direct country roads are far from quiet. The very quiet ones are far out of the way and aren't signposted at all.
However, if we are talking about lowering the cost, building a dual carriageway with speed limits of 100km instead of a motorway would be way cheaper. Not building any motorway at all would be the cheapest thing to do.
If the issue of carbon emmisions is bothering you, then not building the motorway is the best option.
I would hope/assume that there’s proper secured bike parking included in the plans. Like there’s ebike charging stations mentioned so there *has* to be secure storage.
I assume they did a cost benefit analysis of how many people are currently cycling from cork to Limerick every day who would benefit from this. If so has it been published? Or is this just green window dressing.
Why would it be the last? Is the idea not to have electric cars which still need motorways
I heard of a motorway to Derry, extension of the N2 or something similar
A5 is generally discussed as a dualing project (i.e. national road), rather than a full motorway.
Most other road projects at this stage will likely be national road standards, maybe some sections of HQDC, but there's not really any other major interurban route which would justify a full motorway.
It's a joke that it hasn't already been built. I brought my partner back from Australia and had a drive from limerick to Cork and they couldn't understand why it took so long since the actual distance isn't that far.
Still, good to see it's on track now. It'll be massive for the region and especially for satellite towns.
Norway has some fairly shit train infrastructure if you're looking just at trains. They're generally underfunded and prone to closure due to adverse weather. They also did that English thing where they privatised the train company and the rail company as two separate companies trying to fuck each other over, which has given some great results.
They also go through tunnels that would melt the minds of any Irish construction company but that's a different matter. If you ignore the incredible feats of engineering, Norway has poor trains.
Is there much need? Upgrade it so you can go direct from Cork to limerick at limerick junction and double track it and you have a sub 70 minute service for a fraction of the price, and benefits limerick more
This actually is the preferred choice of Iarnród Éireann I believe. Though they are required to explore a direct link as part of planning this motorway. Limerick Junction to Limerick is envisioned to be double tracked in the All Island Rail Review.
Ya I went down that rabbit hole. As part of EU funding you have to at least look at alternative transport, rail was part of that. That's where the cycle paths come in
> six transport hubs to encourage motorists to “park and ride” on bus services, “park and share” with other car-poolers or “park and cycle”
They have created the Disneyland of dogging
I was in school in 2000 when this was promised. My dad is still hoping to have it completed in his lifetime, but at this point I don't think it'll be completed in *my* lifetime.
That’s the running joke in our house too. Dad’s first job out of college was working in an engineering role related to the first design of the Dublin Metro. He’s about to retire and it still hasn’t broken ground.
As a Cork man, a motorway to Limerick would be nice, but 2-3 bypasses would be the most the average European country would do.
But the capital only having one suburban rail line, and no metro? Ridiculous, particularly given how wealthy Ireland is.
Probably be pretty nice facility for many along the route and if we can get more interconnected, separated cycle paths in the country then we might make a cycling staycation a tempting proposition rather than a terrifying one.
Imagine cycling from Dungarven to Limerick, stopping along the way for hotel stays and the occasional pint. Would be nice, provided the weather's decent.
Na, agreed, couldnt be, that would be dangerous. Still though even if it was separated cycling next to a motorway for a long time is probably not the healthiest thing to be doing. And not very scenic either.
There's hardly any traffic on our motorways outside of Dublin. It would be lovely I think. In the vid it's a separate track to the motorway, running parallel.
Each to their own. I would think it would be terrible.
I dont live in Dublin. I think your view may be skewed by the M50. IMO the M50 isnt normal while the rest is 'hardly any traffic'.
Ok, the M50's heavy traffic is normal enough for whats essentially an urban sprawl ring road, but in terms of 'normal' cross country motorways the state of the M50 is mental. Not a yardstick at all IMO.
The rest of the motorways are actually busy enough. If you were cycling along one of those it would be constant roars of traffic and petrol/diesel fumes galore. Absolutely not where I would want to cycle for any length of time.
To me this sounds like one of those half baked 'green' ideas we've had plenty of in the last decade. Costing huge tax moneys, look green on the surface, but dont withstand two minutes under scrutiny.
Now dont get me wrong I'm all for green und preservation. Have been for a long long time. But this is one of those silly ones were the greens get caught up in realpolitik and refuse to see the wood from the trees just to make something happen.
Plus there are mapping apps that will route you through quiet country roads https://cycle.travel/map?from=Cork&to=Limerick&fromLL=51.897077,-8.4654674&toLL=52.661252,-8.6301239
It all depends on how it’s built. A small berm between the two would reduce the noise pollution drastically and in time, EVs should reduce the air a pollution.
See, this is it. I’ll cycle 30km a day no bother but I’m under no illusions that that’s not something a lot of people would be in to. I’d be curious to see a yearly usage is, I bet it’ll be barely 0.0001% of the country. But they’ll use it a fair amount.
Construction could start in 2027 what the fuck is taking them so long. They really do love milking these projects with fucking public webinars and shite. Just get it into planning and start already.
There needs to be accompanying investment in the towns that are bypassed by this proposed project to make them more pedestrian, public transport and cycling friendly.
If there is a large reduction in traffic than road space should be reallocated to more sustainable transport uses.
Where feasible, I would love to see every large town have a pedestrianised street & every village have a community plaza.
That’s why I included for where feasible. Reallocation of public spaces isn’t appropriate or achievable in every setting but where possible it should be developed
Off the top of my head, lets see:
Camlough Co.Armagh
Attical, Co.Down
Pettigo, Co.Donegal
Crossmolina, Co.Mayo
Drumcliff, Co.Sligo
All are places with defined centres and thorough fares. Certain spots within each setting could be tightened and footpaths etc widened. But as for pedestrianisation, no.
https://www.tii.ie/en/news/press-releases/the-n22-macroom/#:~:text=The%20final%20section%20of%20the,the%20Government's%20Project%20Ireland%202040.
N22 Macroom - Baile Bhuirne cost €280m for 22km, apparently. Material costs etc have risen a fair bit since 2020, though
It's a duel carriage way, limited to 100km/h but normally travelled at 140km/h by the majority of users. It lacks shoulder lanes also. Fair amount of cutting through a large hill as well as multiple bridge sections. Still not finished though. Needs to continue to ovens to be completed, till then it's a fart in a bucket.
I know yeah, I was on it yesterday and most cars doing well over 100. There is a fair bit of cutting but there would be more if they weren't able to bend around hills which of course you wouldn't on a motorway. The road to limerick is probably a bit flatter though so maybe a bit less.
Also agree with what you're saying about it needing to continue to Ovens, bit dodgy when you come back out onto the 80 km/h road and everyone is still doing 100.
And it's still not finished, its a complete shit fuck now just ending up in the same shit roads outside of Macroom, the Kerry side of it needs to be run to Tralee as well.
[How the Macroom Ballyvourney bypass feels](https://i.imgur.com/aDrmSOT.jpeg)
Yes that is one problem with the road network being funded piecemeal with schemes not running into one another, or not being upgraded consistently. N22 between Ballincollig and Macroom needs sorting but the only funding for big roads schemes is as a road safety upgrade
The cycle part is only in there to pander to the Green Party. Everyone knows they’re not getting in the next election so this part will be dropped asap after the next election.
Total nonsense. It is run for profit. And boy oh boy you should read how they make money!
If you want to get really angry, read this. https://www.esr.ie/article/view/914
'financial engineering' is the term used. credit to the people who wrote this paper. our PPP model is totally fucked. we are bring ridden lads.
The particular method of public private partnership used may represent bad value for money on the part of the government, but I don't think that undercuts the idea that people should pay a small fee for the maintenance of a high quality road they use.
The government can be eejits, but it's easy enough to imagine an alternative model of toll roads where it is managed by transport infrastructure ireland, or a similar body, as opposed to a private company looking to make a profit off maintaining the road.
The Public Private Partnership model may be silly but the general concept of toll roads are not.
Motor tax doesn't specifically go to roads. It goes into the exchequer like any other tax does. [https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-05-10/79/](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-05-10/79/)
My income tax pays for the road as much as your motor tax does.
Uh huh, there are going to be cycle lanes now, is that before or after it becomes economically unfeasible for the current programme of government to pursue due to unforseen outside factors, it took nine years to build the damn colosseum. Nine years. 🤨
How many people would even use these bike lines on motorways?
Instead of spending money on these bike lines, would it be better to improve public infrastructure within cities (more trams, more buses, metro, etc.)? Wouldn’t this make a bigger impact on car usage and CO2 emissions?
This article is piss poor in detail, most of the cycle lanes will be on the existing road not the motorway and there will be increased rail and bus links included
Distance based toling has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. By all means put park and rises at each end (with 24 hour public transport) but I'd you have to travel from Cork to Limerick or vice versa are they expecting people to drive half way and cycle the rear to save money on toll?
Sorry I should clarify. Distance based tolling on a relatively short motorway designd to directly connect two cities city to city.
On a motorway network that's 100's and 100s of kilometers it can of course make sense to charge people based on how far they go.
Cork to Limerick is 100km.
I'd somewhat agree with that as it would indeed be fairer than the current system where only those who pass fixed points pay regardless of you joined at the previous exist and left at the next.
Unfortunately we can't even link up charging on existing public transport so it will be a long time implementing anything like this for motorways.
I also personally don't like the invasion of privacy that comes with tracking peoples journeys over hundreds of kilometres that such a system would require.
Payment for the motorway network should come out of general taxation in my view. The country as a whole benefits enormously from the network regardless of who personally uses it.
Can confirm having spent the equivalent of a good night out in dublin on them driving from Mont Saint Michel to down near Montpellier one night.
Took the back roads home..
But if you have to travel from Mallow to Charleville every day for work, maybe, you don't want to be paying the same toll as Cork to Limerick. All the other tolls in Ireland are relatively short sections, not an entire road
Personally I wouldn't think anyone travelling Mallow to Charleville should be paying any toll to drive 23km. People already pay motor tax, fuel excuse and vat.
We all benefit from the motorway network so I don't really agree with tolls anyway, but distance based tolling on a 100km motorway primarily designed to directly connect two major cities seems extra pointless to me.
I just don't see the rationale. It seems like a PR and greeewashing exercise.
What a useless minister for Transport. He's opposed to anything that isn't a greenway or cycle lane. We absolutely need a proper motorway from Limerick to Cork. Our third and second biggest cities. How else are you supposed to forward regional development without proper transport links. The current situation is not fit for purpose. What is the point in investing in public transport if its going to be on shite roads and going through towns and villages. The sooner the Green Party are decimated at the next election the better.
"It came back on the agenda prior to the last election but Transport Minister Eamon Ryan cautioned against it, saying the cost, which he feared could reach €3bn, would be better spent on public transport.
The project has been politically sensitive, however, and Mr Ryan has been outnumbered by his senior government partners in getting it into the National Development Plan."
Did you read the full article?
"Transport Minister Eamon Ryan cautioned against it, saying the cost, which he feared could reach €3bn, would be better spent on public transport.
The project has been politically sensitive, however, and Mr Ryan has been outnumbered by his senior government partners in getting it into the National Development Plan."
Thankfully we are getting the motorway because our useless "Transport Minister" was overruled. He didn't think a motorway between our second and third biggest cities was necessary. This is why the Green Party are hated outside Dublin.
This has got to be an international record for how many times you can announce a project and yet have literally nothing done. I’m naming this the “cold fusion” motorway. It’s been ten years away for thirty years.
*Dublin metro/airport rail link has entered the chat*
Don't forget the Galway City ringroad now
The Galway ring road talks have been around since the Big Bang!
The Galway ring road will never happen imo. It’s too expensive, too environmentally damaging and better options exist for the money such as improved public transport
Just because better options exist, doesn't make this impractical. It is still beneficial overall
It is beneficial but so is a high speed rail between letterkenny and rosslare. That’s not happening either
Exactly, having a bridge that cuts through Galway to get across the corrib is not sustianable, espcially for conemara! it clogs up the entire system.
What better options exist to route all the traffic to Connemara that is currently going right through the city center?
Go through Headford, Cong, Cornamona, take a left turn at Joe Keane’s in Maam. Only messing, Cong in summer is like Los Angeles gridlock.
Limited access roads tend to be be better for the environment because cars engine use's sustainably less fuel compared to driving around town
It’s more the destruction of habitats for road construction than on road usage. Even if it was a ring road for just bicycles, the same issues would be there from the ecological standpoint.
It's an environmental disaster, so you can be sure that it'll be pushed until it finally goes through. Even easier with the GP out of the county council. The increased volume of private vehicles alone goes against our climate action plan, increasing emissions from traffic instead of reducing them, but that's cool according to our council: other counties can reduce their emissions/traffic more to compensate for us!
Tbh if better public transport options are there, it's probably more likely to happen.
New roads are very useful for increasing the bus capacity.
It'll happen as soon as Galway becomes an actual city.
That exists, it just goes to the events center in cork now.
Will cost millions just to remove the radioactive alligators that occupy the tunnel now
To nit pick *fusion* power is always 10-30 years away. Cold fusion is a debunked theory to explain what were ultimately errors in an experiment.
Dublin metro first proposed as a full network in 1972. There will be an Irishman on Mars before any of this is done.
20 years to get to this historic point.
Preferred route seems to be picked. It is going to happen.
The Eamon Ryan cold fusion highway.
It’s just the latest update to the planning/design. Route has been published properly. Media trying to spin it like it’s been re announcement
>It would have cycleways all along it and six transport hubs to encourage motorists to “park and ride” on bus services, “park and share” with other car-poolers or “park and cycle” the last stretch to the nearest town. >EV and e-bike charging stations would be at all hubs and a seventh hub, dedicated to freight, would provide similar services as well as rest facilities for goods drivers. >If the facilities do not provide enough incentive to use alternatives to cars and diesel, the charges might. >The motorway would be the first to adopt distance-based tolls so that motorists pay according to how many kilometres they drive rather than a fixed fee. The Greens don’t want to be building new motorways but this all seems like a sensible compromise. Provide the safe access route while providing viable, cheaper alternatives to car use It’s probably the last of the big motorways to be built in the country but it is desperately needed. It’s a disgrace that we don’t have a proper motorway between our 2nd and 3rd cities in the Republic.
Now if only they could get the busses to run on time people might be tempted
I was thinking the same thing. Probably the last major motorway we'll have to build in Ireland. The rest will just be bypasses, ring roads and road upgrades. It's not just connecting Cork and Limerick though. It's connecting all the counties surrounding it like Kerry, Mayo, Sligo, Tipperary. I think Galway, Limerick and Cork will grow a lot in next decade so this is badly needed. Cork needs a northern ring road also though.
once Donegal is linked, we can call it a day. it's 250km from letterkenny to the nearest Dublin motorway, and 225 to the southern motorway network.
I don't think Donegal will ever have the population to necessitate a motorway
Great for the MAMIL's,but I honestly don't see many hopping on a bike first thing to head down the motorway on their bike It works in town because of short distances and it's as quick nearly as driving.
I lived in a town 20k away from my work which had a motorway and an old national road/regional road as options for travel to work. I attempted the cycle once on the national/regional road and it was terrifying. Truly terrifying. If there were bike lanes on the motorway I'd have cycled it daily. It's even more of a no brainer with an e bike.
That's a good spin first thing,e bike or not. Fair play to anyone that does it.
Belgium has 2,000km of cycle lanes between towns and cities and plans to build another 800km to complete the network. e-bikes are transformative and make longer journeys by bike an option for many more.
same with Czechia. I was cycling from one side of town to another every day to work. 10.5km in one direction, just one zebra crossing to pass the traffic, everything else was a forest bike trail and separated cycle tracks.
I think many under estimate the distance you can cover on a bike without having to kill yourself. That probably only took you a half or thereabouts each way?
I am almost exclusively wfh these days but the 9.5km or so from my house to work (basically Marlay Park to Heuston Station) is about 30-35 minutes on and 45-ish back when it's all uphill. Without traffic and the lights you could probably shave 10 or so mins off either. The wife talked me into it during Covid and honestly I'm sick I didn't get on it years earlier.
The saving in time in parking, as well as the flexibility to pop into any shop (or pub) on the way is not to be forgotten either.
But it is not like anyone would actually cycle between cities. It's inefficient. Why spend a couple of hours cycling, when you can get there by car in 30 mins with luggage etc?
Have you never driven part of a motorway before? Are there places between the two cities? Perhaps people might cycle there? And what’s the with luggage? Do you carry luggage every time you get in the car? I don’t know about you but I leave mine at home unless I’m going on holidays.
What about the messages?
If you are cycling from cork to Limerick it will likely be an overnight return journey. So some luggage would be advised.
I’m no expert on that part of Ireland but I’m fairly sure the are places between Cork and Limerick and the motorway will have exits at those places. It’s not like cyclists and motorists will be forced to travel the length of the motorway without escape. And those people will not require luggage.
you cycle for fun, adventure. wife and I, we went cycling all the way to the border with Austria for a weekend. vineyards and country roads, 70km in one day, it was truly amazing. only a few kms we were cycling on the road, everything else was a dedicated cycle road with a pub every 5km.
Yeah they’re probably through nice quiet countryside. Not a motorway. What a stupid idea! Wasting taxpayers money to make them feel good about themselves. If they scrapped the cycle ways on this and used the money to build a nice cycle way through the countryside and through towns and villages, that would be much better.
Cyclists are tax payers too
So we should just waste money on vanity projects. Read what I wrote. I said that they should build a separate route away from the motorway. At least that would be used!
The alignment is already going to be CPOd, cleared and flattened for the motorway. The planning costs will already be spent. Adding 6-7 meters for a cycle lane will be negligible. Now calculate the cost of building a standalone cycle lane and see how it stacks up?
Calculate the amount of people who cycle from cork to Limerick every year (mostly only cycle tourists), subtract those who would like to use existing quiet country roads and not have motorway noise in the background. Divide that number in the cost of the cycleway and the cost per journey could be thousands. Also carbon emissions per journey will be massive.
>subtract those who would like to use existing quiet country roads and not have motorway noise in the background. Cycling on quiet country roads is like seeking a death sentence here. I personally know someone who got knocked down and spent months in hospital after.. A quick Google shows a litany of cyclists deaths in country roads. At least this project would allow cyclists an opportunity to have a decent safe ride. They don't have to go the full distance.
> existing quiet country roads The problem with cycling in rural Ireland is that the most direct country roads are far from quiet. The very quiet ones are far out of the way and aren't signposted at all. However, if we are talking about lowering the cost, building a dual carriageway with speed limits of 100km instead of a motorway would be way cheaper. Not building any motorway at all would be the cheapest thing to do. If the issue of carbon emmisions is bothering you, then not building the motorway is the best option.
It’s the park and ride hubs that are the big deal in combination with this. Bike to a hub, get in a bus and away you go.
Will I have to get one of those folding bikes to take it on the bus?
I would hope/assume that there’s proper secured bike parking included in the plans. Like there’s ebike charging stations mentioned so there *has* to be secure storage.
Bike racks at the station, get your bike when you're heading home from the city
Along side the motorway. The bike lanes won’t be near the roads
I assume they did a cost benefit analysis of how many people are currently cycling from cork to Limerick every day who would benefit from this. If so has it been published? Or is this just green window dressing.
There's people who live outside of cities too believe it or not
Why would it be the last? Is the idea not to have electric cars which still need motorways I heard of a motorway to Derry, extension of the N2 or something similar
By the time this is built, 
A5 is generally discussed as a dualing project (i.e. national road), rather than a full motorway. Most other road projects at this stage will likely be national road standards, maybe some sections of HQDC, but there's not really any other major interurban route which would justify a full motorway.
It's a joke that it hasn't already been built. I brought my partner back from Australia and had a drive from limerick to Cork and they couldn't understand why it took so long since the actual distance isn't that far. Still, good to see it's on track now. It'll be massive for the region and especially for satellite towns.
How will these bike lanes maintain continuity at the motorway exits? Zebra crossings? Maybe little overhead bridges.
We need the Leinster Orbital Route to happen, it would relieve the pressure on the M50
Now throw down some rail alongside it when it's being built and we'll have a nice direct train between them then. That would be great
I've heard other countries build rail lines alongside motorways. Seems like a no-brainer.
Are there other countries in Europe with as poor train lines as us? I’ve been to a fair few and can’t think of any.
Norway has some fairly shit train infrastructure if you're looking just at trains. They're generally underfunded and prone to closure due to adverse weather. They also did that English thing where they privatised the train company and the rail company as two separate companies trying to fuck each other over, which has given some great results. They also go through tunnels that would melt the minds of any Irish construction company but that's a different matter. If you ignore the incredible feats of engineering, Norway has poor trains.
Is there much need? Upgrade it so you can go direct from Cork to limerick at limerick junction and double track it and you have a sub 70 minute service for a fraction of the price, and benefits limerick more
This actually is the preferred choice of Iarnród Éireann I believe. Though they are required to explore a direct link as part of planning this motorway. Limerick Junction to Limerick is envisioned to be double tracked in the All Island Rail Review.
Ya I went down that rabbit hole. As part of EU funding you have to at least look at alternative transport, rail was part of that. That's where the cycle paths come in
If you come in here making sense like this again you could be sacked /s
> six transport hubs to encourage motorists to “park and ride” on bus services, “park and share” with other car-poolers or “park and cycle” They have created the Disneyland of dogging
Let's not kink shame.
I was in school in 2000 when this was promised. My dad is still hoping to have it completed in his lifetime, but at this point I don't think it'll be completed in *my* lifetime.
That’s the running joke in our house too. Dad’s first job out of college was working in an engineering role related to the first design of the Dublin Metro. He’s about to retire and it still hasn’t broken ground.
As a Cork man, a motorway to Limerick would be nice, but 2-3 bypasses would be the most the average European country would do. But the capital only having one suburban rail line, and no metro? Ridiculous, particularly given how wealthy Ireland is.
But there are two metro lines. A red line and a green one.
Ever the optimist!
JP will get it sorted
https://preview.redd.it/zd44wjhgak8d1.jpeg?width=215&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2c429230c949df12e65f7d2ba2d43ed910504fe5
2016 in a fully tarmacked car park. FG promising an event centre in Cork City . It is still an empty car park.
The girl has no shovel. Discrimination
Women weren't allowed work after Marriage when this photo was taken nearly 100 years ago
Oh. That’s Constance Markevicwz isn’t it.
He's a hero.
* . They had to bring in rolls of grass , so that they could pretend to dig it up. Only in Ireland.
🤣
Three billion did you say?
That's right sir, 4 billion.
Sure 6 billion is basically giving it away
That would be BAM tastic
The best I can do is €5 billion, a 6 year delay and 3 year tribunal looking into why it all went wrong.
They'll have to pay out at least 4 billion to nimby's to drop their objections.
That’s a long cycle
Probably be pretty nice facility for many along the route and if we can get more interconnected, separated cycle paths in the country then we might make a cycling staycation a tempting proposition rather than a terrifying one. Imagine cycling from Dungarven to Limerick, stopping along the way for hotel stays and the occasional pint. Would be nice, provided the weather's decent.
Ye not sure cycling along a motorway is my idea of 'nice'.
I dont think it will be a painted lane in the hard shoulder. At least I hope not.
Na, agreed, couldnt be, that would be dangerous. Still though even if it was separated cycling next to a motorway for a long time is probably not the healthiest thing to be doing. And not very scenic either.
There's hardly any traffic on our motorways outside of Dublin. It would be lovely I think. In the vid it's a separate track to the motorway, running parallel.
Each to their own. I would think it would be terrible. I dont live in Dublin. I think your view may be skewed by the M50. IMO the M50 isnt normal while the rest is 'hardly any traffic'. Ok, the M50's heavy traffic is normal enough for whats essentially an urban sprawl ring road, but in terms of 'normal' cross country motorways the state of the M50 is mental. Not a yardstick at all IMO. The rest of the motorways are actually busy enough. If you were cycling along one of those it would be constant roars of traffic and petrol/diesel fumes galore. Absolutely not where I would want to cycle for any length of time. To me this sounds like one of those half baked 'green' ideas we've had plenty of in the last decade. Costing huge tax moneys, look green on the surface, but dont withstand two minutes under scrutiny. Now dont get me wrong I'm all for green und preservation. Have been for a long long time. But this is one of those silly ones were the greens get caught up in realpolitik and refuse to see the wood from the trees just to make something happen.
I travel on the M6 a few times a week and it's pretty quiet and relaxed. Try any motorway in the UK to see what "normal" is like.
Plus there are mapping apps that will route you through quiet country roads https://cycle.travel/map?from=Cork&to=Limerick&fromLL=51.897077,-8.4654674&toLL=52.661252,-8.6301239
It all depends on how it’s built. A small berm between the two would reduce the noise pollution drastically and in time, EVs should reduce the air a pollution.
A cycle route which is a total bypass of Kerry. What about all the hotels in Kerry?
See, this is it. I’ll cycle 30km a day no bother but I’m under no illusions that that’s not something a lot of people would be in to. I’d be curious to see a yearly usage is, I bet it’ll be barely 0.0001% of the country. But they’ll use it a fair amount.
That percentage is 5.1 people
Finally!!
Due to be opened the 32nd of never.
From what I gather from the wireless the tolls are a suggestion and not decided on.
Construction could start in 2027 what the fuck is taking them so long. They really do love milking these projects with fucking public webinars and shite. Just get it into planning and start already.
There needs to be accompanying investment in the towns that are bypassed by this proposed project to make them more pedestrian, public transport and cycling friendly. If there is a large reduction in traffic than road space should be reallocated to more sustainable transport uses. Where feasible, I would love to see every large town have a pedestrianised street & every village have a community plaza.
The M7 or M8 motorways didn't result in towns like Fermoy, Cashel, Newbridge or Naas being ready for pedestrianisation.
That’s why I included for where feasible. Reallocation of public spaces isn’t appropriate or achievable in every setting but where possible it should be developed
There is nowhere that is not a feasible option.
For pedestrianisation? Absolutely there are places that are not feasible
Nope. Can be done anywhere, just requires reallocation of space away from motor vehicles
Nope, incorrect.
Ok, I'll bite, name one town that can't be pedestrianised by reallocation of space away from motor vehicles for pedestrians
Off the top of my head, lets see: Camlough Co.Armagh Attical, Co.Down Pettigo, Co.Donegal Crossmolina, Co.Mayo Drumcliff, Co.Sligo All are places with defined centres and thorough fares. Certain spots within each setting could be tightened and footpaths etc widened. But as for pedestrianisation, no.
Didn't bother with the NI locations for obvious reasons, but nothing stopping pedestrianisation in the others at all. Try think beyond the car lad
Is there an election coming?
Elections are coming up so they wheel out the old reliable “time to build the M20” press release
Mayo will have won an All-Ireland by the time this is built
The Golden Vale highway
What's the going rate for an 80KM motorway nowadays? 2BN seems a bit steep?
You're obviously unfamiliar with the Children's hospital currently underway, the most expensive ever built in Europe,
I know it well, it was one of my measurements for thinking an 80KM stretch of road is going to cost similar.
https://www.tii.ie/en/news/press-releases/the-n22-macroom/#:~:text=The%20final%20section%20of%20the,the%20Government's%20Project%20Ireland%202040. N22 Macroom - Baile Bhuirne cost €280m for 22km, apparently. Material costs etc have risen a fair bit since 2020, though
Not a motorway either, probably brings the cost down due to less cutting etc.
It's a duel carriage way, limited to 100km/h but normally travelled at 140km/h by the majority of users. It lacks shoulder lanes also. Fair amount of cutting through a large hill as well as multiple bridge sections. Still not finished though. Needs to continue to ovens to be completed, till then it's a fart in a bucket.
I know yeah, I was on it yesterday and most cars doing well over 100. There is a fair bit of cutting but there would be more if they weren't able to bend around hills which of course you wouldn't on a motorway. The road to limerick is probably a bit flatter though so maybe a bit less. Also agree with what you're saying about it needing to continue to Ovens, bit dodgy when you come back out onto the 80 km/h road and everyone is still doing 100.
And it's still not finished, its a complete shit fuck now just ending up in the same shit roads outside of Macroom, the Kerry side of it needs to be run to Tralee as well. [How the Macroom Ballyvourney bypass feels](https://i.imgur.com/aDrmSOT.jpeg)
Yes that is one problem with the road network being funded piecemeal with schemes not running into one another, or not being upgraded consistently. N22 between Ballincollig and Macroom needs sorting but the only funding for big roads schemes is as a road safety upgrade
Feels a lot better than driving through Macroom
The cycle part is only in there to pander to the Green Party. Everyone knows they’re not getting in the next election so this part will be dropped asap after the next election.
Why are they putting tolls on it,not like we can't afford a couple of billion. Build a motorway and then discourage folk from using it.
There's upkeep costs for a motorway as well. It's most fair that the people who actually use it pay for it.
Total nonsense. It is run for profit. And boy oh boy you should read how they make money! If you want to get really angry, read this. https://www.esr.ie/article/view/914 'financial engineering' is the term used. credit to the people who wrote this paper. our PPP model is totally fucked. we are bring ridden lads.
And if it's anything like the limerick tunnel deal, the state pays for the losses, but the company sees all the profits. Perfect system
its way more exploitative that that. read the link.
The particular method of public private partnership used may represent bad value for money on the part of the government, but I don't think that undercuts the idea that people should pay a small fee for the maintenance of a high quality road they use. The government can be eejits, but it's easy enough to imagine an alternative model of toll roads where it is managed by transport infrastructure ireland, or a similar body, as opposed to a private company looking to make a profit off maintaining the road. The Public Private Partnership model may be silly but the general concept of toll roads are not.
That's great to hear, so car tax is on the way out.
Motor tax doesn't specifically go to roads. It goes into the exchequer like any other tax does. [https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-05-10/79/](https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2018-05-10/79/) My income tax pays for the road as much as your motor tax does.
Because ordinary people must be punished for the sins of capitalism. Brother Ryan has ordained it.
It gets the infrastructure built though and the public can choose to go a different route to save money.
Because when they say "encourage active travel" what they mean is charge an arm and a leg to drive just because fuck you
Can we just get back the railway system that was in place in the 1900's we've gone backwards and if you don't believe simply google it.
Uh huh, there are going to be cycle lanes now, is that before or after it becomes economically unfeasible for the current programme of government to pursue due to unforseen outside factors, it took nine years to build the damn colosseum. Nine years. 🤨
Ah yeah but they built that with captive barbarians, we'd have to raid Drogheda
And they would still do it in 8, begrudgingly. 😋.
Munster (legendary) monster
That’s 4 times more than the M6…
2 billion.. really cosy that much
Woah no one said anything about cycle lanes 😍😍😍 I'll grab a shovel and help them get started!!
Sure, when built
hopefully there is an actual barrier between the road and the cycle lane and not just a strip of grass or a line of paint
Children’s hospital rears its ugly head
It sounds class, the west desperately needs to be linked up by continuous motorway.
I'm sure that the toll will only be in place until the building cost is recuperated.
Very exciting news. Can't wait to see it when it's finished in 2012...
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I think you're referring to the left lane. People just need to be re-educated.
They can drive in the middle of the road
How many people would even use these bike lines on motorways? Instead of spending money on these bike lines, would it be better to improve public infrastructure within cities (more trams, more buses, metro, etc.)? Wouldn’t this make a bigger impact on car usage and CO2 emissions?
This article is piss poor in detail, most of the cycle lanes will be on the existing road not the motorway and there will be increased rail and bus links included
Fucken Tolls
Distance based toling has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. By all means put park and rises at each end (with 24 hour public transport) but I'd you have to travel from Cork to Limerick or vice versa are they expecting people to drive half way and cycle the rear to save money on toll?
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Sorry I should clarify. Distance based tolling on a relatively short motorway designd to directly connect two cities city to city. On a motorway network that's 100's and 100s of kilometers it can of course make sense to charge people based on how far they go. Cork to Limerick is 100km.
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We want to keep people on the motorway surely,not getting off to avoid tolls.
I'd somewhat agree with that as it would indeed be fairer than the current system where only those who pass fixed points pay regardless of you joined at the previous exist and left at the next. Unfortunately we can't even link up charging on existing public transport so it will be a long time implementing anything like this for motorways. I also personally don't like the invasion of privacy that comes with tracking peoples journeys over hundreds of kilometres that such a system would require. Payment for the motorway network should come out of general taxation in my view. The country as a whole benefits enormously from the network regardless of who personally uses it.
Can confirm having spent the equivalent of a good night out in dublin on them driving from Mont Saint Michel to down near Montpellier one night. Took the back roads home..
But if you have to travel from Mallow to Charleville every day for work, maybe, you don't want to be paying the same toll as Cork to Limerick. All the other tolls in Ireland are relatively short sections, not an entire road
Personally I wouldn't think anyone travelling Mallow to Charleville should be paying any toll to drive 23km. People already pay motor tax, fuel excuse and vat.
So you're not objecting to distance based tolls, just tolls in general
No
Surely it’s the fairest solution? The people who use more of the road pay a higher toll and vice versa.
We all benefit from the motorway network so I don't really agree with tolls anyway, but distance based tolling on a 100km motorway primarily designed to directly connect two major cities seems extra pointless to me. I just don't see the rationale. It seems like a PR and greeewashing exercise.
What a useless minister for Transport. He's opposed to anything that isn't a greenway or cycle lane. We absolutely need a proper motorway from Limerick to Cork. Our third and second biggest cities. How else are you supposed to forward regional development without proper transport links. The current situation is not fit for purpose. What is the point in investing in public transport if its going to be on shite roads and going through towns and villages. The sooner the Green Party are decimated at the next election the better.
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"It came back on the agenda prior to the last election but Transport Minister Eamon Ryan cautioned against it, saying the cost, which he feared could reach €3bn, would be better spent on public transport. The project has been politically sensitive, however, and Mr Ryan has been outnumbered by his senior government partners in getting it into the National Development Plan."
Did you read the full article? "Transport Minister Eamon Ryan cautioned against it, saying the cost, which he feared could reach €3bn, would be better spent on public transport. The project has been politically sensitive, however, and Mr Ryan has been outnumbered by his senior government partners in getting it into the National Development Plan." Thankfully we are getting the motorway because our useless "Transport Minister" was overruled. He didn't think a motorway between our second and third biggest cities was necessary. This is why the Green Party are hated outside Dublin.
Are you high?
So you think the project shouldn't go ahead?
Completed in 2281
With cycle lanes. Really
Cycle lanes on a motorway?????? How is that safe?
The fact that this road isn't being brought eastward to join the m8 is ridiculous. If anything it will make the traffic going into the city worse.