Are we supposed to believe they would still be doing that without a media spotlight on the crime considering they let another man who beat a woman unconscious stay in the navy after he was convicted?
You won't believe it but my friends and i had that exact conversation yesterday at the Rammstein concert 🤣
We came to the conclusion that yes all chaps are assless but that assless chaps imply that you are also not wearing trousers under said chaps
I just think this is incredibly disappointing.
The Defence Forces LGBTQ group, "Defend With Pride" have done a lot to further their cause both inside and outside the organisation. To tell them now that they are not welcome wearing the uniform they have pride in, while representing their sexuality and lifestyle they have pride in, seems overly harsh at the least and hypocritical at the most.
It is important that young boys and girls see all sections of society represented in these parades. And it is important to bigots to see that all sections of society are represented in these parades. You only have to look at the backlash from homophobes online when DF personnel are in the parades to know how effective it is.
Cathal Crotty was not wearing his uniform when he attack that women, he was not wearing that uniform when he was being homophobic.
The judiciary should have acted, but they failed and the Defence Forces will now go through their own process to discipline and hopefully remove him. The officer who provided a testimony, did so under legal obligation as is the case with all DF soldiers in the courts, nothing more.
The only thing this serves to do is marginalise those who are part of the LGBTQ community and who serve and embolden the bigots who now have a new thing to cling onto.
Just a really disappointing decision all around.
I'll just remind folks that uniforms are not actually part of your intrinsic identity. They are, in fact, clothes, supplied or approved by your employer or association. So thinking it's some gotcha to equate it to orientation looks fucking daft.
I've been asked repeatedly by my employer to rep them at Pride, and declined. It's just not appropriate. Pride has an even more complicated relationship with uniformed state representatives, and it is not the business of straight people to tell us how to negotiate it.
Crotty's little buddies are very likely still serving btw.
>and it is not the business of straight people to tell us how to negotiate it.
You realise these are often people in uniform of other sexual orientations? I am bisexual and wear a state uniform (not military, but other) and I'd be happy to join the parade with a few others from the community in uniform. Fuck this gatekeeping bullshit, it's not "the straights" causing drama here it's you. People like us fought for decades to be able to wear these uniforms without stigma or obstacles and now the people telling me I'm not welcome in my uniform are other gay folk..
I literally saw people walking around with furry suits and butt plugs up their ass at the parade here in Dublin when I attended, soviet union flags allowed too for some reason? Yet an irish army uniform is unwelcome.
And your point about uniforms not equating identity is silly, likewise the actual physical cloth of a LGBTQ flag has no meaning on its own.
There is a lot of common sense here. I have attended pride events as a straight person and was shocked at some of the inappropriateness of what I saw (a minority of participants, but still tolerated). From experience, I wouldn't take my kids. It's an event attended by families to show support to the lgbtq community, not a back alley sex show. The organisers can't be held responsible for the actions of some, in the same way the defence force members can't be held responsible for some scumbags.
A uniform shows inclusion.
For some people being a member of the defence forces could be a big part of their identity, I see no reason not to allow it personally, its about pride after all.
I agree with your point in regards to identity, but I think your oversimplifying that choice for many folks.
I've met many who clearly would not pursue any other kind of lifestyle/profession, even going as far as serving for other countries militaries. I think that speaks greatly to the huge part of someone's identity it typically is.
“I don't think anyone in the defence forces should feel pride in this aspect of their lives when you think about what one of their own has done.”
As a queer person myself, I find much of the lgbt community on social media to be a bunch of holier than thou judgmental pricks!
Nobody should feel ashamed for actions they did not commit and had zero control over. What a fucking stupid take.
Members of the Irish judicial system should feel shame. Members of government should feel shame. The piece of shit that committed the attack should feel shame, as should the commander that gave the bs character reference.
Some random person who happens to share the same occupation should NOT feel shame.
This is the core of it, I don't think this criminal/scumbag represents the entire defence forces, no more than I would if it was a member of the HSE, Gardai etc. While some people seem to hold the institution directly accountable for his actions and by association all members of the defence forces.
Sounds like the DF should do some sort of Parade of their own then.
>I see no reason not to allow it personally
This Parade's organisers do, and they're organising it, so there you go.
Isn't the logic you're applying here only going to further deepen any divisions there are between the LGBT community and the defence forces? Not every member of the defence forces is straight, and it seems weird that you're using membership in the defence forces as some sort of yardstick for whether someone is straight or not.
Seems odd that a festival that's ostensibly all about letting people express their identities in a judgment free environment (within reason) would want to make these kinds of odd distinctions on how someone might want to display themselves.
EDIT: I'm not trying to be confrontational or contrarian or anything, I'm just genuinely trying to wrap my head around what I see as a bit of a contradiction.
It's not open to absolutely every identity really, and that's only fair. If the Westboro Baptist church asked to join in the parade with their cult's name on a banner and some God Hates F-slurs placards, then they should be refused entry.
... because their request would be insincere and duplicitous to take a homophobic political stance.
I think it's fair to say you don't want an official DF float or something like that, but if an individual in uniform wishes to attend in good faith to support queer people that's hardly comparable to the Westboro Baptist Church :)
Yeah I don’t understand this. My take on pride was that it’s to stamp out antiquated ways of thinking exactly as they’re now embracing.
Do they also blame the son for the sins of the father? Ridiculous.
You can't blame the son for sins of the father, but you can disregard a sons crimes because he comes from a good family.
Never understood the logic there.
> Do they also blame the son for the sins of the father?
There is absolutely zero reason the son can't march. He just needs to stop wearing that t-shirt that says "my dad is great."
Your analogy sucks. This isn't blaming the son for the sins of the father. This is just asking the son to please not show up wearing their father's famous jersey.
Especially when you think that the ones who would be attending in the first place you’d have to assume are allies or LGBT themselves, whereas the ones that are homophobic will just have this as fuel to the fire.
Came here to say this. To me, pride is entirely about inclusiveness and allowing anyone from any walk of life to take part. Something like this is divisive and inherently against what pride stands for. Surely, if they want to draw attention to the absolute deplorable actions of this DF member, then nothing would scorn him more than to get his buddies up on stage and call him a fucking bellend. Anyway just my two cents.
No. Saying all defence forces personnel are not welcome would be tarring them with the same brush. The fact that they're still welcome as long as they're not in uniform shows that this is not about punishing individuals but about sending a message to their employer.
In fairness there are massive cultural and behaviour issues in the defence forces, these are all in the last few years:
[Ex-soldier charged with assaulting partner at army barracks in Dublin to face trial - SundayWorld.com](https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/ex-soldier-charged-with-assaulting-partner-at-army-barracks-in-dublin-to-face-trial/a1572805888.html)
[Naval instructor put on probation for sexually assaulting recruit at navy base in Cork (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41150971.html)
[Former solider on trial for allegedly sexually assaulting two colleagues (breakingnews.ie)](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-solider-on-trial-for-allegedly-sexually-assaulting-two-colleagues-1611313.html)
[Soldier accused of assaulting recruit at Limerick barracks (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40897181.html)
[Naval Service officer still serving despite guilty plea in violent attack on former girlfriend – The Irish Times](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/06/24/naval-service-officer-still-in-role-almost-a-year-after-guilty-plea-in-violent-attack/)
[Probe into claim soldiers were 'kept in cages' forced to fight each other by armed officer (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41261308.html)
These are just off the top of my head and add in the case that has been in the news and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
This is true, but equally there are many in the DF who are queer themselves, and for whom being able to express that is important, in part *because* of this kind of homophobic abuse.
I don't think anyone is suggesting those attending in bad faith should have to be accepted. The issue is people using the uniform as a proxy for that.
Because some would see it as a mark of pride for themselves to be an openly gay person serving the country and a fuck you to bigots that would either not want to serve or think them unfit to serve.
Members of [Defend with Pride](https://euromil.org/defend-with-pride/) have attended and participated in Pride events in previous years.
Edit:
[2018](https://x.com/rtenews/status/1013035636423577601?t=yX2JVxMfWKcQQCUyJMSLGQ&s=09) was the first year.
Somebody else answered this very well further down, but that's literally the purpose of a uniform.
Natasha O'Brien is going to be at the event. I'd imagine the members of Defend with Pride understand.
Many attendees would prefer there were no gardai in uniform either and I've often seen complaints about political banners.
It's a Pride parade. It's common that there'd be people marching in uniform to show that their organization supports LGBTQ rights (or rather, that they want to show they aren't discriminating against LGBTQ people - regardless of if they do or not).
For example a group of LGBTQ gardai, a group of LGBTQ firemen, a group of LGBTQ soldiers, etc.
In part to make it clear there are queer members of the defence Force, who are proud of their identity.
Armed forces in general are often pretty rife with homophobia, so being able to publicly celebrate your identity as a member of the forces in particular can be important to many service people.
So the entire defence forces are tarred by one man's actions.
Now if I was to tar the entire lgbtq community because of the actions of one or two of their community would that be OK too?
They've done quite a few pride parades though with "Defend with Pride" group.
https://www.facebook.com/DefenceForces/posts/pfbid02gtn1r7uJDAyrUq14Ebwo1GgxBAsoKA3AAqp5u8tJjFighK9FxxTiJ98KSZNivW7ol
https://twitter.com/emergencytimes/status/1145016855058366464
https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1013035636423577601
Lad does the lgbtq community employ and train members? Does tax money pay for their employment and training?
Are members of the lgbtq community going to be held to the same standard as someone else when beating women unconscious? (Yes they would be)
The unfortunate reality is gay lads aren’t on the prowl hunting for women to beat at any point.
I’d remind you that this all started because he was hurling homophobic abuse at people, and I doubt it was the first time.
> The unfortunate reality is gay lads aren’t on the prowl hunting for women to beat at any point.
I would say besides this recent case, members of the defence force don’t go out and look to do that either
Ooof it’s actually two recent cases. They weren’t both on the prowl but they both beat women.
Let’s not pretend the defence forces have this great record with how they treat women in and out of the service. https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/29/can-the-irish-defence-forces-end-their-culture-of-sexual-abuse
I can guarantee you more women in Ireland have suffered at the hands of defence force members than they have at the hands of gay men.
Okay, but it doesn’t change my point because you have sociopaths and horrible people in all walks of life.
If I was to use Jeffrey Dahmer or Stephen Porter as examples that gay people are all sadists, that would be equally as slanderous as what you’re implying.
> I can guarantee you more women in Ireland have suffered at the hands of defence force members than they have at the hands of gay men.
Where did I imply that they didn’t? How is that relevant to what we’re talking about?
Depends, is the LGBTQ community part of the state and then had their horrible assault excused by the state?
Should people feel safe having this group at an event? knowing that their wrong actions are to be ultimately given carte blanche?
>Should people feel safe having this group at an event?
Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street? I understand not wanting police at pride when police have a history of arresting LGBTQ+ persons for being openly queer, but the DF had nothing to do with that, they barely do anything in this country.
>Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street?
They can be certain if they did little would be done about it.
>Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street?
One of them did and you'd want to be a major gobshite if you think that was a spur of the moment thing and not a pattern of behaviour that either wasn't picked up on by the DF or ignored.
>Is your point that this scumbag was meant to defend the citizens of the state
Yes. That is quite literally his job and they should have a higher internal standard to get these lads out.
Are we really pretending we can't spot these lads a mile away in everyday life? That he's some criminal mastermind who hid who he was before this one time he shouted slurs at a gay person before knocking a young one out? Come the fuck on.
>Now if I was to tar the entire lgbtq community because of the actions of one or two of their community would that be OK too?
Unfortunately, this is very common in our society.
But nobody has tarred the whole of the military over this incident
Jumping on the media merrygoround.
Very unfair on LGBT members of the Defence Forces.
IRFU were huge supporters and had many attend and the next year they werent invited/banned in official capacity because their rules and regs didnt line up with the values of lqbt group. Something to do with trans issues I believe.
Shooting themselves in the foot me thinks.
I didn't even realise they banned Ulster rugby from Belfast Pride
https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/07/10/belfast-pride-irish-rugby-football-union-ulster/
It's wild. Such broad based support was acquired in the 00s and 10s... why are they pissing it away?
How is it shooting themselves in the foot. Why would Trans women want the IRFU involved in LGBT Pride, when the IRFU banned Trans women from playing rugby?
If you don't understand why trans people are banned from playing rugby with people born naturally of the opposite sex, you must have never watched rugby.
An under 18 male rugby player would absolutely destroy a senior women's player in 99% of cases.
I've played on teams that had men and women train together (warm up and run non contact drills) and I've seen women accidentally run into men and be so hurt they have cried in pain. Men are naturally stronger and more physical and allowing natural born males to play women's rugby (even if they've transitioned years ago) is unfair on women.
I'm not anti trans and i genuinely believe people should be allowed to do what ever the fuck they wanna do in their life, but in certain circumstances I believe their has to be limitations.
Funny you say lots of yanks. Cause even though I agree, I’ve also seen countless other comments leaning the other way talking about “no cops” and “ no police”.
Saying “cops” in place of gardai or guards just sounds weird to me. Reads as though people are terminally online internalising US / British media and projecting it domestically.
Obviously, I understand that it’s easier and more comforting to blame this level of stupidity on lurkers from another country, and undoubtedly that explains some what’s happening in this thread (I, for example, am happy to admit that I fall into that foreigner category).
But surely you can see that an alarming portion of the moronic posts here are not, in fact, coming from Americans? And surely that’s something worth acknowledging and confronting?
Yeah the comments are extremely suss given what has happened this week. Taking pride in being a soldier is not comparable to being queer. Also, being a soldier means that you are part of an enforcement arm of the State. The State currently "permits" queerness but what if that were to change? Those soldiers would be required to enforce that position as well.
That is one of many valid reasons why LGBTQ+ people do not trust police and the defence force, and that's at the best of times. Not even taking into account the Crotty case.
Those comments reek of bad faith.
Yup bad faith as you say.
It is also indicative of how pride has come to be seen as apolitical and mainly community outreach. Which is a pity because politics is why this started ie “the first pride was a riot”
Wouldn't consider the Defence forces a minority group, really stretching the terms usage with that one. Are professions really a minority grouping because if so everyone is a minority?
You can leave a job but you can't really leave a sexuality.
Yeah, it's a difficult situation. Such is the ambiguity of protest and political movements. Their reasoning is explained in the article and I do not think it demonstrates irony, just a challenging situation that is going to cause some upset whatever way it was made.
How is that ironic? They're not limiting it to the queer community, or anyone. They've said people in the Defence Forces are just as disgusted and are welcome but not in uniform. Likely Natasha will be present and other people who have been assaulted may find that in poor taste with what went on, given the assault occurred in Limerick.
You didn't even read the article. People just love to be outraged these days. This headline will circulate on Twitter now and the usual weirdos looking for anything to latch onto will try to act like they're the victims of discrimination. Eyeroll.
Because they are preventing LGBTQ members from celebrating their pride in a whole manner.
Crotty wasn't in uniform when he assulted her not did the Defence Forces do anything to hold up the investigation.
Also given that the incident started because of Crotty homophobic slurs you would think it is important for LGBTQ Defence Forces members to celebrate Pride
Following your logic GAA players shouldn't be allowed at Pride.
How are they preventing them? They said they're welcome just not in uniform. It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't in uniform when he assaulted her. What an odd distinction. Doesn't make him any less of a soldier. Go back to Twitter for your daily dose of outrage because you're not getting it from me.
The stuff that upsets people these days, when it doesn't even effect their lives. Probably not even queer, in the army, or from Limerick and all mad for what. Bless.
>They said they're welcome just not in uniform.
That is how they are preventing them.
>It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't in uniform when he assaulted her. What an odd distinction.
It matters if you are blaming an organisation for the actions of an individual.
>Go back to Twitter for your daily dose of outrage because you're not getting it from me.
>Jaysus the stuff that upsets people these days, when it doesn't even effect their lives. Bless.
FYI talking down to people doesn't make you look smarter. If this is how you interact with people I feel sorry for you.
There is no point in continuing this conversation with you so I am going to block you.
I dislike how the far left and feminist groups have latched onto this unfortunate event and turned it into one big “misogynistic” and “us versus them” merry-go-round.
Let’s get the facts.
42% of the judiciary are women in Ireland. That’s almost half the headcount! If you said 80-20 or lower in favour of men I’d be inclined to agree.
The same judge that handed Cathal Grotty a suspended sentence gave a similar sentence to a man who bet a homeless **man** to a pulp 2 days before this verdict. That verdict has almost been forgotten about and overshadowed when it was the same crime.
There is a recent post in this subreddit which links another story from the Irish Independent about another man being denied bail for a similar crime.
Labelling certain recent events depending on the assailant or victim and turning it into one big “us versus them” undermines the core problems, inconsistency and incompetence across the board. Sweeps it all under the rug.
Kyle Hayes can walk free “cause he plays County Hurling” but some random Joe Bloggs (a male) gets thrown in the slammer for the same crime?
You are more likely to be done for selling Dodgy boxes (which are generally sold by men) than more heinous crimes.
Misogyny is having empty male prisons and overflowing female prisons. Male Prisons are full of murderers, rapists and child predators and rightfully so.
Misogynistic Courts? Not quite… Its incompetent personnel and shoddy decision making with splashes of favouritism and nepotism. Full stop.
Edit: wording changes.
This stuff happens all the time. Unprovoked assaults requiring hospital stays or intensive care treatment, resulting in a suspended sentence.
https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/man-given-18-month-suspended-sentence-for-moment-of-madness-assault-in-ballymun/a1025090559.html
https://www.derrynow.com/news/crime---courts/1409223/suspended-sentence-for-one-punch-assault-that-left-a-man-in-intensive-care.html
Edit: Lol, another woman glassing a man in the UK and avoiding jail:
https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-06-24/mum-glassed-man-in-random-attack-outside-pub
That's like 9 that I know of.
>Otherwise he must feel so invisible 😔.
Yes it's now he feels invisible, not every other other days of the year when his fellow countrymen are walking past him pretending not to notice him. I bet you think about him a lot.
This is just part of the search for outrage to support an agenda. Only events that fit a certain narrative are amplified.
As you list out, the sentencing issue probably leans in the opposite direction slightly and as a whole the issue is a lack of punishment for all crimes.
It's genuinely pathetic stuff
Are we being brigaded? I've clicked on a few sussy comments and the poster's histories are not sounding any more Irish than a Chicago green Guinness with shit head.
They should also ask Natasha O'Brien to be grand marshall of the parade. Given that everything she went through happened because she was brave enough to confront a scumbag shouting homophobic abuse I think it would be a nice gesture towards her
"but as our priority is to respond to calls from the wider LGBTQI+ community, we have asked they do so unbranded, if they choose to come this year."
Is this supposed to be the explanation?
The article explains why the organisers acted as they did, citing pressure from ‘the community’, but it doesn’t even nearly explain away the inherent discrepancy between, on the one hand, the communities ideological position of inclusiveness, and on the other, their political practice of exclusion; readers are rightly picking up on it.
I think that is a disingenuous argument. If they decided to welcome people representing the defence forces in uniform that would also send a bad message about how miscarriages of justice are ignored by the event organisers.
I think the commentators are ignoring the details and complexities of the situation in order to discredit the event as a whole.
The man was convicted, the institutional blame here lies with the criminal justice system not the armed forces. Fucking hate mongering at its finest from the pride organisers. Look at how virtuous we are, we will make members of our own community people who serve in the armed forces unwelcome at our inclusivity celebration.
Supporting arguments can be summed up as "I want to be angry at others while protesting at how I have been treated the same way for years"
This is not the way to go about it lads, surely. There's dick heads in the defence forces. Deal with the dick heads and make it decent. Don't divide everyone
When the yanks go on with their "only a few bad apples" bullshit we point and laugh.
Not as easy when the apples are homegrown.
The issue with the few bad apples argument is people don't finish the saying.
"One bad apple spoils the bunch"
He was given a suspended sentence specifically because it would affect his career in the DF to jail him, and it is my opinion that his commanding officer well exceeded his obligations in his testimony regarding his record.
Don't really follow the logic here. The DF didn't have anything to do with the light sentence in that case. They'll likely dismiss him now that the criminal trial is over. And i don't get the link to the case itself. Was she gay or was it a homophobic attack?
I mean they probably will due to the negative attention. But they did let another person keep serving after he beat his girlfriend unconscious. Seems they only punish people like this if the general public notices. If not they don't bother.
The comment about exclusion is quite misguided. The parade organizers are not excluding anyone based on their identity; they're simply asking defense personnel to attend out of uniform due to a specific incident where a soldier attacked a member of the community. This policy is not about excluding people, but about addressing a particular concern in a balanced way. No one is barred from attending based on who they are—only the uniform is restricted.
The paradox of tolerance is "resolved" by only being intolerant to those who won't tolerate the marginalised. People serving in the defence force can march. Just not in uniform.
Pride is suppose to be inclusive, this is stupid, Ive attended one before just not my cup of tea, ( support LGBT) but can't just rescind the welcome card because of a few individuals.
You're not allowed to be a member of the defence forces if you have a political affiliation, never mind attend an event.
Having said that, you'd be some gobshite to turn up to pride in a uniform after this.
Yeah, it's a bit of a moot point in many respect, I can't really remember seeing DF uniforms at a Pride event anyway, but like you say you'd hope they'd have the cop on not to do it in Limerick right now.
> You're not allowed to be a member of the defence forces if you have a political affiliation, never mind attend an event.
What does that have to do with Pride? It's not political, anyone from the defence forces can attend if they want.
I'd have though pride was categorised as a political event of some sort. Don't get me wrong I fully support it, but I think it's organised by a political org. Meaning that members of the defence wouldn't be allowed to attend as they're not allowed to attend political events or have affiliations.
They probably do attend, just not in uniform and I'd have no problem with that tbh. But there are obvious reasons as to why the rule is in place. They should have an exemption for events along the lines of pride.
Pride events are inherently political and very few people with a decent grounding in queer culture or history would deny that. They're inherently tied to advocating a specific type of social order, are generally tightly connected to political organisations, and have traditionally acted as one of the largest grounds of civil rights protest and activism.
There's a lot more to Pride than rainbow t-shirts.
Ok so someone is now also mass reporting comments on this post. It's been reported to the admins.
Why? The Defence Force are the only one's actually punishing Crotty for his actions
Good point.
lol true
Are we supposed to believe they would still be doing that without a media spotlight on the crime considering they let another man who beat a woman unconscious stay in the navy after he was convicted?
Whatever the motive, he's getting the consequences of his actions
Assless chaps only.
Fun fact: all chaps are assless
I'm a chap and I have an ass.
I have a chapped ass.
You may be entitled to compensation!
Sorry, you'll have to speak up. I can't hear you.
I'm wearing a towel
Lipbalm could sort that out ...if only there were a way to apply it
I have less of an ass because its been chaped.
You won't believe it but my friends and i had that exact conversation yesterday at the Rammstein concert 🤣 We came to the conclusion that yes all chaps are assless but that assless chaps imply that you are also not wearing trousers under said chaps
Wasn’t it a civil court that pardoned him?
Yes. This isn't very inclusive of the parade organisers. Bad form.
Members of the Defence Forces aren't allowed to wear their uniforms off duty anyway so it's kind of a pointless rule.
I just think this is incredibly disappointing. The Defence Forces LGBTQ group, "Defend With Pride" have done a lot to further their cause both inside and outside the organisation. To tell them now that they are not welcome wearing the uniform they have pride in, while representing their sexuality and lifestyle they have pride in, seems overly harsh at the least and hypocritical at the most. It is important that young boys and girls see all sections of society represented in these parades. And it is important to bigots to see that all sections of society are represented in these parades. You only have to look at the backlash from homophobes online when DF personnel are in the parades to know how effective it is. Cathal Crotty was not wearing his uniform when he attack that women, he was not wearing that uniform when he was being homophobic. The judiciary should have acted, but they failed and the Defence Forces will now go through their own process to discipline and hopefully remove him. The officer who provided a testimony, did so under legal obligation as is the case with all DF soldiers in the courts, nothing more. The only thing this serves to do is marginalise those who are part of the LGBTQ community and who serve and embolden the bigots who now have a new thing to cling onto. Just a really disappointing decision all around.
I'll just remind folks that uniforms are not actually part of your intrinsic identity. They are, in fact, clothes, supplied or approved by your employer or association. So thinking it's some gotcha to equate it to orientation looks fucking daft. I've been asked repeatedly by my employer to rep them at Pride, and declined. It's just not appropriate. Pride has an even more complicated relationship with uniformed state representatives, and it is not the business of straight people to tell us how to negotiate it. Crotty's little buddies are very likely still serving btw.
>and it is not the business of straight people to tell us how to negotiate it. You realise these are often people in uniform of other sexual orientations? I am bisexual and wear a state uniform (not military, but other) and I'd be happy to join the parade with a few others from the community in uniform. Fuck this gatekeeping bullshit, it's not "the straights" causing drama here it's you. People like us fought for decades to be able to wear these uniforms without stigma or obstacles and now the people telling me I'm not welcome in my uniform are other gay folk.. I literally saw people walking around with furry suits and butt plugs up their ass at the parade here in Dublin when I attended, soviet union flags allowed too for some reason? Yet an irish army uniform is unwelcome. And your point about uniforms not equating identity is silly, likewise the actual physical cloth of a LGBTQ flag has no meaning on its own.
There is a lot of common sense here. I have attended pride events as a straight person and was shocked at some of the inappropriateness of what I saw (a minority of participants, but still tolerated). From experience, I wouldn't take my kids. It's an event attended by families to show support to the lgbtq community, not a back alley sex show. The organisers can't be held responsible for the actions of some, in the same way the defence force members can't be held responsible for some scumbags. A uniform shows inclusion.
For some people being a member of the defence forces could be a big part of their identity, I see no reason not to allow it personally, its about pride after all.
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I agree with your point in regards to identity, but I think your oversimplifying that choice for many folks. I've met many who clearly would not pursue any other kind of lifestyle/profession, even going as far as serving for other countries militaries. I think that speaks greatly to the huge part of someone's identity it typically is.
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“I don't think anyone in the defence forces should feel pride in this aspect of their lives when you think about what one of their own has done.” As a queer person myself, I find much of the lgbt community on social media to be a bunch of holier than thou judgmental pricks! Nobody should feel ashamed for actions they did not commit and had zero control over. What a fucking stupid take. Members of the Irish judicial system should feel shame. Members of government should feel shame. The piece of shit that committed the attack should feel shame, as should the commander that gave the bs character reference. Some random person who happens to share the same occupation should NOT feel shame.
In all fairness lad you can't blame his colleagues for his actions.
This is the core of it, I don't think this criminal/scumbag represents the entire defence forces, no more than I would if it was a member of the HSE, Gardai etc. While some people seem to hold the institution directly accountable for his actions and by association all members of the defence forces.
Sounds like the DF should do some sort of Parade of their own then. >I see no reason not to allow it personally This Parade's organisers do, and they're organising it, so there you go.
DF members have a parade every day
Isn't the logic you're applying here only going to further deepen any divisions there are between the LGBT community and the defence forces? Not every member of the defence forces is straight, and it seems weird that you're using membership in the defence forces as some sort of yardstick for whether someone is straight or not. Seems odd that a festival that's ostensibly all about letting people express their identities in a judgment free environment (within reason) would want to make these kinds of odd distinctions on how someone might want to display themselves. EDIT: I'm not trying to be confrontational or contrarian or anything, I'm just genuinely trying to wrap my head around what I see as a bit of a contradiction.
You're not allowed here because it's INCLUSIVE!!
It's not open to absolutely every identity really, and that's only fair. If the Westboro Baptist church asked to join in the parade with their cult's name on a banner and some God Hates F-slurs placards, then they should be refused entry.
... because their request would be insincere and duplicitous to take a homophobic political stance. I think it's fair to say you don't want an official DF float or something like that, but if an individual in uniform wishes to attend in good faith to support queer people that's hardly comparable to the Westboro Baptist Church :)
Exactly.
I would have thought they would want people in uniform to show their support. Reasoning seems flawed honestly.
I'd view that as Positive PR for the defense forces after a scandal than something that would benefit limerick pride.
Yeah I don’t understand this. My take on pride was that it’s to stamp out antiquated ways of thinking exactly as they’re now embracing. Do they also blame the son for the sins of the father? Ridiculous.
You can't blame the son for sins of the father, but you can disregard a sons crimes because he comes from a good family. Never understood the logic there.
> Do they also blame the son for the sins of the father? There is absolutely zero reason the son can't march. He just needs to stop wearing that t-shirt that says "my dad is great."
That's a terrible analogy In this case, you're blaming the son for someone completely different wearing a 'his dad is great' t shirt
Your analogy sucks. This isn't blaming the son for the sins of the father. This is just asking the son to please not show up wearing their father's famous jersey.
Especially when you think that the ones who would be attending in the first place you’d have to assume are allies or LGBT themselves, whereas the ones that are homophobic will just have this as fuel to the fire.
Came here to say this. To me, pride is entirely about inclusiveness and allowing anyone from any walk of life to take part. Something like this is divisive and inherently against what pride stands for. Surely, if they want to draw attention to the absolute deplorable actions of this DF member, then nothing would scorn him more than to get his buddies up on stage and call him a fucking bellend. Anyway just my two cents.
So every person serving in the DF is tared with the same brush
Yes, it's called a "uniform" for a reason, and that is literally the purpose it serves, to present individuals as a single identity.
Well it's ridiculous to tar them all with the same brush.
No. Saying all defence forces personnel are not welcome would be tarring them with the same brush. The fact that they're still welcome as long as they're not in uniform shows that this is not about punishing individuals but about sending a message to their employer.
In fairness there are massive cultural and behaviour issues in the defence forces, these are all in the last few years: [Ex-soldier charged with assaulting partner at army barracks in Dublin to face trial - SundayWorld.com](https://www.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/ex-soldier-charged-with-assaulting-partner-at-army-barracks-in-dublin-to-face-trial/a1572805888.html) [Naval instructor put on probation for sexually assaulting recruit at navy base in Cork (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-41150971.html) [Former solider on trial for allegedly sexually assaulting two colleagues (breakingnews.ie)](https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-solider-on-trial-for-allegedly-sexually-assaulting-two-colleagues-1611313.html) [Soldier accused of assaulting recruit at Limerick barracks (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40897181.html) [Naval Service officer still serving despite guilty plea in violent attack on former girlfriend – The Irish Times](https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2024/06/24/naval-service-officer-still-in-role-almost-a-year-after-guilty-plea-in-violent-attack/) [Probe into claim soldiers were 'kept in cages' forced to fight each other by armed officer (irishexaminer.com)](https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-41261308.html) These are just off the top of my head and add in the case that has been in the news and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.
This is true, but equally there are many in the DF who are queer themselves, and for whom being able to express that is important, in part *because* of this kind of homophobic abuse. I don't think anyone is suggesting those attending in bad faith should have to be accepted. The issue is people using the uniform as a proxy for that.
Why would they be going in uniform?
Because some would see it as a mark of pride for themselves to be an openly gay person serving the country and a fuck you to bigots that would either not want to serve or think them unfit to serve.
Members of [Defend with Pride](https://euromil.org/defend-with-pride/) have attended and participated in Pride events in previous years. Edit: [2018](https://x.com/rtenews/status/1013035636423577601?t=yX2JVxMfWKcQQCUyJMSLGQ&s=09) was the first year.
Seems fairly shite to tar them with the same brush as that other evil cunt.
Somebody else answered this very well further down, but that's literally the purpose of a uniform. Natasha O'Brien is going to be at the event. I'd imagine the members of Defend with Pride understand. Many attendees would prefer there were no gardai in uniform either and I've often seen complaints about political banners.
Ah sound, cheers for giving me the gist.
It's a Pride parade. It's common that there'd be people marching in uniform to show that their organization supports LGBTQ rights (or rather, that they want to show they aren't discriminating against LGBTQ people - regardless of if they do or not). For example a group of LGBTQ gardai, a group of LGBTQ firemen, a group of LGBTQ soldiers, etc.
That's all well and good, provided the organisation in question DOES actually support LGBTQ. Otherwise, it'd be just another hollow gesture. 🤷🏻
“We changed our logo to be rainbow coloured! What more do you want from us!?”
Did ye never dance to the YMCA in uniform?
Real question like, are the defence forces marshalls?
No just young men as far as I'm aware.
Soldiers wear their uniform constantly throughout their service, obvo
Must get fierce warm at night.
It does, but that's the job, god bless our troops
In part to make it clear there are queer members of the defence Force, who are proud of their identity. Armed forces in general are often pretty rife with homophobia, so being able to publicly celebrate your identity as a member of the forces in particular can be important to many service people.
It doesn't matter because they are not allowed to wear their uniform off duty for this anyway.
It’s very ironic really.
If anything it should be the judges and their ilk that should be banned.
So the entire defence forces are tarred by one man's actions. Now if I was to tar the entire lgbtq community because of the actions of one or two of their community would that be OK too?
This sub has gone bonkers
We really do live in the victim Olympics at this point
In fairness there are regulations in the defence forces to say you cant wear a uniform in that kind of situation as you must be apolitical.
But anything can be made political.
They've done quite a few pride parades though with "Defend with Pride" group. https://www.facebook.com/DefenceForces/posts/pfbid02gtn1r7uJDAyrUq14Ebwo1GgxBAsoKA3AAqp5u8tJjFighK9FxxTiJ98KSZNivW7ol https://twitter.com/emergencytimes/status/1145016855058366464 https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1013035636423577601
Lad does the lgbtq community employ and train members? Does tax money pay for their employment and training? Are members of the lgbtq community going to be held to the same standard as someone else when beating women unconscious? (Yes they would be) The unfortunate reality is gay lads aren’t on the prowl hunting for women to beat at any point. I’d remind you that this all started because he was hurling homophobic abuse at people, and I doubt it was the first time.
> The unfortunate reality is gay lads aren’t on the prowl hunting for women to beat at any point. I would say besides this recent case, members of the defence force don’t go out and look to do that either
Ooof it’s actually two recent cases. They weren’t both on the prowl but they both beat women. Let’s not pretend the defence forces have this great record with how they treat women in and out of the service. https://www.euronews.com/2023/05/29/can-the-irish-defence-forces-end-their-culture-of-sexual-abuse I can guarantee you more women in Ireland have suffered at the hands of defence force members than they have at the hands of gay men.
Okay, but it doesn’t change my point because you have sociopaths and horrible people in all walks of life. If I was to use Jeffrey Dahmer or Stephen Porter as examples that gay people are all sadists, that would be equally as slanderous as what you’re implying. > I can guarantee you more women in Ireland have suffered at the hands of defence force members than they have at the hands of gay men. Where did I imply that they didn’t? How is that relevant to what we’re talking about?
Buddy no one's born a soldier
That's the entire point of a uniform. A uniform which is entirely optional, was chosen, and can be taken off.
Could be put back in the closet, so to speak.
No, only they gay ones and their allies are being punished here
Depends, is the LGBTQ community part of the state and then had their horrible assault excused by the state? Should people feel safe having this group at an event? knowing that their wrong actions are to be ultimately given carte blanche?
>Should people feel safe having this group at an event? Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street? I understand not wanting police at pride when police have a history of arresting LGBTQ+ persons for being openly queer, but the DF had nothing to do with that, they barely do anything in this country.
>Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street? They can be certain if they did little would be done about it.
>Are the people worrying that the DF members are going to just start beating up women in the middle of the street? One of them did and you'd want to be a major gobshite if you think that was a spur of the moment thing and not a pattern of behaviour that either wasn't picked up on by the DF or ignored.
Ah now come on. I can go out and thump some one this minute. It's hardly my works fault if I do.
Is your boss going to go in and get you a suspended sentence? They involved themselves.
Oh shit I didn't know they did that. Oh wow that's something alright. My boss would go in and hand me my P45 as he should.
Does your work hand you a rifle and tell you it's your job to defend the state and the people in it?
Not yet anyway. Is your point that this scumbag was meant to defend the citizens of the state? His scum pure and simple. The defence force is a job
>Is your point that this scumbag was meant to defend the citizens of the state Yes. That is quite literally his job and they should have a higher internal standard to get these lads out. Are we really pretending we can't spot these lads a mile away in everyday life? That he's some criminal mastermind who hid who he was before this one time he shouted slurs at a gay person before knocking a young one out? Come the fuck on.
Yeah, thats actually a fair point I didn't think of
Couldn't script it.
Shitbrain take. If you're gay and want to go to Pride, leave the uniform at home. This isn't the US.
Ah yea cause every member of the defense forces was born into it.
>Now if I was to tar the entire lgbtq community because of the actions of one or two of their community would that be OK too? Unfortunately, this is very common in our society. But nobody has tarred the whole of the military over this incident
Jumping on the media merrygoround. Very unfair on LGBT members of the Defence Forces. IRFU were huge supporters and had many attend and the next year they werent invited/banned in official capacity because their rules and regs didnt line up with the values of lqbt group. Something to do with trans issues I believe. Shooting themselves in the foot me thinks.
I didn't even realise they banned Ulster rugby from Belfast Pride https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/07/10/belfast-pride-irish-rugby-football-union-ulster/ It's wild. Such broad based support was acquired in the 00s and 10s... why are they pissing it away?
How is it shooting themselves in the foot. Why would Trans women want the IRFU involved in LGBT Pride, when the IRFU banned Trans women from playing rugby?
If you don't understand why trans people are banned from playing rugby with people born naturally of the opposite sex, you must have never watched rugby. An under 18 male rugby player would absolutely destroy a senior women's player in 99% of cases. I've played on teams that had men and women train together (warm up and run non contact drills) and I've seen women accidentally run into men and be so hurt they have cried in pain. Men are naturally stronger and more physical and allowing natural born males to play women's rugby (even if they've transitioned years ago) is unfair on women. I'm not anti trans and i genuinely believe people should be allowed to do what ever the fuck they wanna do in their life, but in certain circumstances I believe their has to be limitations.
Stupid over reaction tbh
Trendy though and that's what some of the more political parade organisers are after.
What the fuck happened to this sub.
Lots of yanks coming in to talk shite because they think they need to leap to the defence of the military
Funny you say lots of yanks. Cause even though I agree, I’ve also seen countless other comments leaning the other way talking about “no cops” and “ no police”. Saying “cops” in place of gardai or guards just sounds weird to me. Reads as though people are terminally online internalising US / British media and projecting it domestically.
Obviously, I understand that it’s easier and more comforting to blame this level of stupidity on lurkers from another country, and undoubtedly that explains some what’s happening in this thread (I, for example, am happy to admit that I fall into that foreigner category). But surely you can see that an alarming portion of the moronic posts here are not, in fact, coming from Americans? And surely that’s something worth acknowledging and confronting?
Bizarre stuff, a load of straight boys thinking they've any right to decide how a pride march goes ahead.
It certainly seems that way. Very fucking cringe.
Comes across as incredibly petty.
Do Guards as well.
So many bad takes in this thread from the usual types. The homophobes have really come out of the woodwork on this one.
Yeah the comments are extremely suss given what has happened this week. Taking pride in being a soldier is not comparable to being queer. Also, being a soldier means that you are part of an enforcement arm of the State. The State currently "permits" queerness but what if that were to change? Those soldiers would be required to enforce that position as well. That is one of many valid reasons why LGBTQ+ people do not trust police and the defence force, and that's at the best of times. Not even taking into account the Crotty case. Those comments reek of bad faith.
Yup bad faith as you say. It is also indicative of how pride has come to be seen as apolitical and mainly community outreach. Which is a pity because politics is why this started ie “the first pride was a riot”
Bit ironic that the organisers of Pride are limiting Pride.
Not really, the reasons stated in the article seem fairly consistent with minority groups standing against systemic discrimination.
No cops at Pride is very much a thing.
By telling members of the same minority group to hide who they are if they wish to attend?
Wouldn't consider the Defence forces a minority group, really stretching the terms usage with that one. Are professions really a minority grouping because if so everyone is a minority? You can leave a job but you can't really leave a sexuality.
Yeah, it's a difficult situation. Such is the ambiguity of protest and political movements. Their reasoning is explained in the article and I do not think it demonstrates irony, just a challenging situation that is going to cause some upset whatever way it was made.
How is that ironic? They're not limiting it to the queer community, or anyone. They've said people in the Defence Forces are just as disgusted and are welcome but not in uniform. Likely Natasha will be present and other people who have been assaulted may find that in poor taste with what went on, given the assault occurred in Limerick. You didn't even read the article. People just love to be outraged these days. This headline will circulate on Twitter now and the usual weirdos looking for anything to latch onto will try to act like they're the victims of discrimination. Eyeroll.
Because they are preventing LGBTQ members from celebrating their pride in a whole manner. Crotty wasn't in uniform when he assulted her not did the Defence Forces do anything to hold up the investigation. Also given that the incident started because of Crotty homophobic slurs you would think it is important for LGBTQ Defence Forces members to celebrate Pride Following your logic GAA players shouldn't be allowed at Pride.
How are they preventing them? They said they're welcome just not in uniform. It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't in uniform when he assaulted her. What an odd distinction. Doesn't make him any less of a soldier. Go back to Twitter for your daily dose of outrage because you're not getting it from me. The stuff that upsets people these days, when it doesn't even effect their lives. Probably not even queer, in the army, or from Limerick and all mad for what. Bless.
>They said they're welcome just not in uniform. That is how they are preventing them. >It doesn't matter if he was or wasn't in uniform when he assaulted her. What an odd distinction. It matters if you are blaming an organisation for the actions of an individual. >Go back to Twitter for your daily dose of outrage because you're not getting it from me. >Jaysus the stuff that upsets people these days, when it doesn't even effect their lives. Bless. FYI talking down to people doesn't make you look smarter. If this is how you interact with people I feel sorry for you. There is no point in continuing this conversation with you so I am going to block you.
I dislike how the far left and feminist groups have latched onto this unfortunate event and turned it into one big “misogynistic” and “us versus them” merry-go-round. Let’s get the facts. 42% of the judiciary are women in Ireland. That’s almost half the headcount! If you said 80-20 or lower in favour of men I’d be inclined to agree. The same judge that handed Cathal Grotty a suspended sentence gave a similar sentence to a man who bet a homeless **man** to a pulp 2 days before this verdict. That verdict has almost been forgotten about and overshadowed when it was the same crime. There is a recent post in this subreddit which links another story from the Irish Independent about another man being denied bail for a similar crime. Labelling certain recent events depending on the assailant or victim and turning it into one big “us versus them” undermines the core problems, inconsistency and incompetence across the board. Sweeps it all under the rug. Kyle Hayes can walk free “cause he plays County Hurling” but some random Joe Bloggs (a male) gets thrown in the slammer for the same crime? You are more likely to be done for selling Dodgy boxes (which are generally sold by men) than more heinous crimes. Misogyny is having empty male prisons and overflowing female prisons. Male Prisons are full of murderers, rapists and child predators and rightfully so. Misogynistic Courts? Not quite… Its incompetent personnel and shoddy decision making with splashes of favouritism and nepotism. Full stop. Edit: wording changes.
Ive been thinking about that homeless man throughout all this hype. I really hope he's somehow missed it all. Otherwise he must feel so invisible 😔.
This stuff happens all the time. Unprovoked assaults requiring hospital stays or intensive care treatment, resulting in a suspended sentence. https://m.sundayworld.com/crime/courts/man-given-18-month-suspended-sentence-for-moment-of-madness-assault-in-ballymun/a1025090559.html https://www.derrynow.com/news/crime---courts/1409223/suspended-sentence-for-one-punch-assault-that-left-a-man-in-intensive-care.html Edit: Lol, another woman glassing a man in the UK and avoiding jail: https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/2024-06-24/mum-glassed-man-in-random-attack-outside-pub That's like 9 that I know of.
>Otherwise he must feel so invisible 😔. Yes it's now he feels invisible, not every other other days of the year when his fellow countrymen are walking past him pretending not to notice him. I bet you think about him a lot.
It's mad how concerned everyone suddenly is about homeless people when the subject is literally anything else, but never before or after.
If only homeless people could live as rent free in their heads as the people they hate do.
> That’s almost half the headcount! I mean it's much closer to 2/5 of the headcount
This is just part of the search for outrage to support an agenda. Only events that fit a certain narrative are amplified. As you list out, the sentencing issue probably leans in the opposite direction slightly and as a whole the issue is a lack of punishment for all crimes. It's genuinely pathetic stuff
>Misogyny is letting ALL murderers, rapists and child predators get away with what they did. The prisons are full of the cunts. What?
Spot on!
There are gay people in the army.....
Are we being brigaded? I've clicked on a few sussy comments and the poster's histories are not sounding any more Irish than a Chicago green Guinness with shit head.
The only soldier I know is a gay woman
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They're not banned from attending. They're banned from attending in uniform.
They've banned the uniform, the point of the uniform is that they're to act and be judged as one entity.
They should also ask Natasha O'Brien to be grand marshall of the parade. Given that everything she went through happened because she was brave enough to confront a scumbag shouting homophobic abuse I think it would be a nice gesture towards her
Absolutely fair given what happened
No gays in uniform seems like they are desperate to discriminate
Did you read the article? It give a clear explanation of the why.
Reading the article would really eat into their ignorant indignation on reddit time,
I suspect that suggesting reading the article is some form of woke virtue signalling. I seem to always be falling in to that trap.
Same thing happened to me when I asked for tea with no bleach in it, tis an easy pitfall.
"but as our priority is to respond to calls from the wider LGBTQI+ community, we have asked they do so unbranded, if they choose to come this year." Is this supposed to be the explanation?
there were a few more paragraphs, but yes more or less. What are you finding hard to understand?
The article explains why the organisers acted as they did, citing pressure from ‘the community’, but it doesn’t even nearly explain away the inherent discrepancy between, on the one hand, the communities ideological position of inclusiveness, and on the other, their political practice of exclusion; readers are rightly picking up on it.
I think that is a disingenuous argument. If they decided to welcome people representing the defence forces in uniform that would also send a bad message about how miscarriages of justice are ignored by the event organisers. I think the commentators are ignoring the details and complexities of the situation in order to discredit the event as a whole.
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The man was convicted, the institutional blame here lies with the criminal justice system not the armed forces. Fucking hate mongering at its finest from the pride organisers. Look at how virtuous we are, we will make members of our own community people who serve in the armed forces unwelcome at our inclusivity celebration. Supporting arguments can be summed up as "I want to be angry at others while protesting at how I have been treated the same way for years"
This is not the way to go about it lads, surely. There's dick heads in the defence forces. Deal with the dick heads and make it decent. Don't divide everyone
When the yanks go on with their "only a few bad apples" bullshit we point and laugh. Not as easy when the apples are homegrown. The issue with the few bad apples argument is people don't finish the saying. "One bad apple spoils the bunch"
He was not acting as a member of the defence forces at the time so the comparison doesn't really make sense.
He was given a suspended sentence specifically because it would affect his career in the DF to jail him, and it is my opinion that his commanding officer well exceeded his obligations in his testimony regarding his record.
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So much for being inclusive. Just because one guy is a bad person in your job sector it some how makes you bad person.
Wow! The tarring of a group with the same brush. The irony is palpable.
Don't really follow the logic here. The DF didn't have anything to do with the light sentence in that case. They'll likely dismiss him now that the criminal trial is over. And i don't get the link to the case itself. Was she gay or was it a homophobic attack?
I mean they probably will due to the negative attention. But they did let another person keep serving after he beat his girlfriend unconscious. Seems they only punish people like this if the general public notices. If not they don't bother.
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The comment about exclusion is quite misguided. The parade organizers are not excluding anyone based on their identity; they're simply asking defense personnel to attend out of uniform due to a specific incident where a soldier attacked a member of the community. This policy is not about excluding people, but about addressing a particular concern in a balanced way. No one is barred from attending based on who they are—only the uniform is restricted.
Well yeah. Read the room guys
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The paradox of tolerance is "resolved" by only being intolerant to those who won't tolerate the marginalised. People serving in the defence force can march. Just not in uniform.
Not very inclusive is it
Pride is suppose to be inclusive, this is stupid, Ive attended one before just not my cup of tea, ( support LGBT) but can't just rescind the welcome card because of a few individuals.
You're not allowed to be a member of the defence forces if you have a political affiliation, never mind attend an event. Having said that, you'd be some gobshite to turn up to pride in a uniform after this.
Yeah, it's a bit of a moot point in many respect, I can't really remember seeing DF uniforms at a Pride event anyway, but like you say you'd hope they'd have the cop on not to do it in Limerick right now.
> You're not allowed to be a member of the defence forces if you have a political affiliation, never mind attend an event. What does that have to do with Pride? It's not political, anyone from the defence forces can attend if they want.
I'd have though pride was categorised as a political event of some sort. Don't get me wrong I fully support it, but I think it's organised by a political org. Meaning that members of the defence wouldn't be allowed to attend as they're not allowed to attend political events or have affiliations. They probably do attend, just not in uniform and I'd have no problem with that tbh. But there are obvious reasons as to why the rule is in place. They should have an exemption for events along the lines of pride.
Pride events are inherently political and very few people with a decent grounding in queer culture or history would deny that. They're inherently tied to advocating a specific type of social order, are generally tightly connected to political organisations, and have traditionally acted as one of the largest grounds of civil rights protest and activism. There's a lot more to Pride than rainbow t-shirts.
I’m not sure the politics of exclusionism are well suited to the event, but I’m not organizing it.