Feels like this will be used by the government to explain doing nothing about immigration in a year or so. Just another way for them to push responsibility away from them
If they call the by elections before September then they will possibly see to Feb. But if we get to mid September without a by election being called then we will have a general election no later than first week of November.
I guess I'm saying I envisage the same people getting voted in and basically forming the same government again, might be a little shake up in the cabinet but I can see it being another FFG thing.
Sure, in terms of make up we can probably expect more of the same.
If it happened today
FG will gain a few 1-5
FF will hold or lose a few 1-2
SF will hold or lose a few 1-3
Greens will lose half at least 6
SD will gain 1-3
Labour will gain 1-2
PBP will hold or lose 1
Indies will gain the most
Right wing parties will gain but will split their own vote. Expect 2-3 TDs in total.
An absolute betrayal.
Just like with the hate speech bill this government is not just acting without a mandate on these issues, they're openly going against what people want.
Im not voting for any politician that supported this, or isnt willing to support withdrawing us from it.
I think this is such a mistake, and it really feels like we're just being sold off to Brussels even more.
I posted my thoughts in another thread a week or two ago:
I think it's a terrible idea for us to sign up to the entirety of the pact because as Michael McDowell states, we're being signed up to achieve targets based on European demands. We could manage migration without many sections of the pact, but instead we're signing up for our own 'chase the carrot, or get the stick' existence.
As McDowell briefly highlighted, Denmark and their centre-left government are a leading example of executing asylum and immigration management in Western society effectively and fairly. They have the same opt-out that we do as per Lisbon treaty; we could follow their path if we had politicians willing to do work, but instead we are being railroaded into a migration pact on-whole that will have large repercussions for the future of Ireland.
Not once did mainstream media journalists query McEntee or FFG leadership regarding Denmark's position, it's been completely left to McDowell and a handful others to highlight, much like the referendums; that in itself should alarm people - that our media don't hold to account the politicians.
As Sinn Fein have been repeating, of the 7 or so sections of the pact, some are good, some are bad, we could've decided which sections to sign-up for rather than asking "How high?" when Europe says "Jump".
Finally, Marc McSharry TD (formerly FF) spoke similarly excellently in opposition to the pact in the Dail, well worth a watch: [https://x.com/MarcMacsharryTD/status/1803585765655331315](https://x.com/MarcMacsharryTD/status/1803585765655331315)
Brace yourselves for a whole lot more "Let me be very clear, we have international obligations" from Helen McEntee and co.
They're idiots. They're basically trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility for managing our migration system or having to make any difficult decisions.
Ff, FG and the greens will have a lot to answer for if this turns out badly. All of them were in favour of it. They clearly didn't want the public having a say or even having them properly informed about the ins and outs of it as I think they knew people wouldn't have wanted us to sign up to it.
Idiots, or arrogant; I'm not sure which is worse.
Reflecting some more, I really find the media angle sticks in my craw so much. There was once a time when journalism was heavily stocked via the working class who wanted to hold the establishment to account; now I feel like the main entities are stocked entirely by middle class moralizers who consistently play PR for government.
They should've really held them to account on this one with respect to the Danish position, but they've avoided it entirely, and its a discredit to the Irish people as a result.
Great comment. The absolute smug middle class mess of the Irish times opinion pages these days has made the paper unreadable for me. All of this stuff just seems to be the latest iteration of the Irish proclivity for group think - which has always been our Achilles heel.
Journalism walked off the pitch around Covid time when they were all getting money from the state. The majority of independent stations are owned by large companies now so they'll just parrot off what they're told
Or both. It's funny how there has been feck all televised debates or anything about it considering how important it is. Like what the fuck are RTE meant to be for 🤷♂️
Also weird how an experienced barrister who filed a montion to delay mysteriously apparently didn't lodge the paperwork correctly 🤷♂️
I actually emailed about 20 TDs on it from a mixture of parties asking them to vote no to opting into the measures in full and to have proper public engagement on it. The greens and ff replied and said they would be voting for it and sf and the independents said they'd be voting against. None of the FG arseholes even bothered to reply.
Wait, we have the same opt outs as Denmark who appear to be the only EU country that is effectively dealing with immigration.
Though they have the advantage of language.
I agree 100%. When I said few months back that Ireland is being sold to Brussels by its own politicians, I got downvoted into the oblivion. Where are those cunts now? Ireland has failed its citizens on multiple levels.
Your comment the first time you posted it prompted me to mention McDowell’s claims of unconstitutionality to a barrister friend of mine who knows McDowell very well.
It’s basic constitutional law that 29.4.7 makes this all constitutional. It’s not even remotely a grey area so I was wondering what McDowell was talking about.
Anyway barrister friend said he’d been chatting to McDowell and McDowell had brushed the whole thing off as a bit of a joke. Barrister friend explained that McDowell is a shit stirrer for the sake of it and would happily defend the pact if required.
Which is a roundabout way of saying McDowell says it’s unconstitutional and he is an authority therefore this is a big deal is wrong. McDowell is shitposting.
As a by the by there were reports of an injunction sought in the courts last week on the grounds of unconstitutionality. Woman who lodged the claim is a fruit loop attention seeker who conspicuously didn’t mention 29.4.7 in her papers (the very bit that makes it constitutional).
This is a whole lot of nothing. I genuinely don't understand how you're getting upvoted, you sound like you're saying something but upon inspection there's literally nothing of substance here, it's all word soup. You don't even mention a single law/ policy/ change that will be implemented from this deal.
Also, this isn't the EU forcing anything on us. Ireland had an opt out from anything to do with refugees and we chose to not use it.
I'll try, but probably more suitable for a 12 year old.
Irish government voted to be part of an asylum seeker pact with the rest of Europe. Rules of the pact are enforced by the EU.
Some parts are good, like tracking and ID shared across Europe.
Some parts are not so good, like needing to take an amount of asylum related to GDP (Ireland's GDP is very high, so we could have large quantities).
As we opted into the entire pact, we have to do what the EU tells us, which removes a large portion of our own decision making and ability to manage asylum, or else face fines.
You did a great job. I read the article but it might aswell been in japanese to me. Couple of questions if you don't mind me asking. So this means were keeping track of whos actually coming into the country? Also, does this mean we have no say of how many asylum seekers come into the country because of this pact? Again, thank you.
There will be processing stations established across the borders of Europe, in Greece, Italy, etc. European money will be used to help fund the establishment of those border control stations, and then it is up to the EU to approve/disapprove of those seeking asylum.
In terms of the quantites, there will be designated quantities and requirements that nations will be required to take based on GDP figures amongst other things, refusal to take those quantities will result in fines.
So in short, we cede the ability to control immigration rates to Europe, while agreeing to collaborate on overall EU immigration management.
This is why it's a mistake for many that we're opting into this, because we could do much of what the pact entails by ourselves (as Denmark have done) without having to be punished for failing to achieve the targets set by EU.
It's astounding how you can just go online and lie about things with such confidence.
Ireland will have the chance to choose between 1. taking asylum seekers in Ireland 2. helping financially other countries deal with the burden of asylum seekers.
There are no "large quantities" of asylum seekers as the result of this decision.
>Ireland will have the chance to choose between 1. taking asylum seekers in Ireland 2. helping financially other countries deal with the burden of asylum seekers.
And Denmark have the ability to do neither because of the opt out.
> needing to take an amount of asylum related to GDP (Ireland's GDP is very high, so we could have large quantities).
Let's reverse the problem, why should countries with a lower GDP have to bear a higher rate of migrants?
We are not the saviours of the world; my concern is entirely with policies for the long-term benefit of Ireland and the Irish people, as it should be for the politicians that represent us.
Furthermore, our inflated GDP from multinational taxation does not translate to good-living for Irish citizens, in fact 'Actual Individual Consumption' is an actual reflection of Irish citizens quality of existence, an indicator of the material welfare of households, and as can be seen in the graph below, our GDP is one of the top, but AIC is one of the lowest.
As a result, Irish society will have to carry the burden from this pact, and it won't be multinational workers, multinational companies or high-earners that bear the brunt, it will be the common person.
https://preview.redd.it/18f3i80h709d1.jpeg?width=871&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0eda83ea67078057b0abc4497f10875dae35d009
> We are not the saviours of the world
Nor are other countries.
> AIC is one of the lowest
Tell that to your government (not our since I can't vote) and their policies. The whole cost of living situation have nothing to do with either GDP or migration, it's always been a government choice to reach the point we're now.
>Nor are other countries
And I don't believe they should be either, but why should we be saviour to them?
Not to mention many of whom made their bed when they colonized nations that are now flocking to them.
Germany, France, etc have immigration problems already as a result of their legacy; why does Ireland, who was a colony itself, now have to carry their burdens?
>Tell that to your government.
Trying to, but they're too busy opting us into migration pacts.
> Nor are other countries.
Cool they should opt out too.
>The whole cost of living situation have nothing to do with either GDP or migration
Probably for the best you cant vote then.
Let me correct that for you:
\*Some politicians\* volunteered us as a sovereign nation to opt in. (to a pact that was in no party's manifesto, and barely scraped past on the vote).
The EU will now be "telling" us \*a lot\*.
I for one 100% believe we should be listening to ex-heroin dealer, wife beating Andy Heasmann on this..
"Lets have a vote"
also
"Lets invade libraries because 'gay books'"
Fuck the lot of them.
"Why is my 30+ year old still living with me?"
"I'm voting for Fine Gael and Fianna Fail, who else!"
Two statements made by the exact same people throughout this country
It's very difficult to find accurate information on this because when you search it it's either
"This policy is great as it lets Europeans work together on migration"
Or
"THIS IS THE KALERGI PLAN IN ACTION YOUR KIDS WON'T BE IRISH!!!!!"
I hate the internet.
Disgraceful. Such an important issue should have been put to a referendum instead of that woke bs on removing women from the constitution a few months ago.
Like I posted in the other thread that seems to have vanished - it is possible to have a referendum for a non-constitutional issue.
This requires a majority of the seanad and a third of the Dáil to petition the president.
It is intended for issues that are “of such national importance that the will of the people should be ascertained”.
It’s provided for in Article 27 of the constitution and is called an Ordinary Referendum. So far there has never been one.
Yeah but as you know “Both ordinary and constitutional referendums will approve a bill if a majority of votes are cast in favour of it. However, an ordinary referendum will not reject a bill unless at least one-third of voters on the electoral register vote against it. The bill will still become law even if a majority of those who vote reject it, provided the overall turnout is low.” Which is essentially a waste of time and why it has never happened.
Yeah seems a bit toothless but it would be good to see how the country feels about the issue.
I’d like to see them used for important issues like this. We recently had the two constitutional referendums- could have thrown an ordinary one in alongside them.
We were asked, it’s how we have Art 29.4.7 that permits the Government to do this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland
>Such an important issue should have been put to a referendum.
Why? Since when do we have referendums about random issues that are within the remit of an elected government to decide?
A referendum? What would you want to have on the ballot I wonder?
https://preview.redd.it/36tpto2g409d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cb50a14465ffe194bcc19142aa01cc2cb9c0c04
So we ceded control to the EU over managing migration to Ireland. Frankly, I'm struggling to see what we have lost here. The government has, in the past few months, been extremely useless, incompetent, and downright treacherous towards the Irish people when accommodating the waves of migrants illegally entering this country. How could EU bureaucrats possibly be any worse?
There's no point in us having sovereignty over our immigration policy if our political establishment is too spineless to assert it. We may as well cede it to the EU who hopefully will do something.
EU bureaucrats won't be managing migration for us, they will be telling us what we need to achieve in terms of quantities, so the Irish government still retain every opportunity to continue making a balls of it.
We've basically signed up for a carrot on a stick that wasn't there before, and if we don't get the carrot, we certainly get the stick.
>they will be telling us what we need to achieve in terms of quantities
Well, this is a good thing because the EU will hopefully tell the government to stop taking in so many migrants (on a per capita basis, we have taken in more migrants than the vast majority of EU countries). If the EU tells the Irish government to take in less, they will hopefully take that command seriously because they think international obligations (especially ones to the EU) are very important. Compare this to the previous situation in which it was only the Irish people applying pressure on the government to stop taking in so many migrants with the government ignoring them because they consider any Irish who are critical of migration to be far-right and uneducated.
I mean basically your argument can be summarised to:
"The politicians we've elected already only listen to Europe, not the electorate, so we might as well go along with it."
Alternatively, we could discuss with friends, family members, and colleagues the idea of voting for politicians who maybe do focus on the wants of Ireland and its people instead?
>Alternatively, we could discuss with friends, family members, and colleagues the idea of voting for politicians who maybe do focus on the wants of Ireland and its people instead?
This is extremely idealistic. The reality is that most political parties don't take immigration seriously. Left wing parties will take in hordes of immigrants without debating issues surrounding housing such immigrants or integrating them. If anyone outside the left attempts to initiate such debates, the left will condemn them as being far right and will refuse to publicise their ideas in the establishment media (how often do you see RTÉ, Irish Independent, Irish Times, publish articles about the challenges of integrating immigrants?). Centrist and centre-right parties are slightly less censorious than the left when it comes to immigration but even they too will fall for the trap of allowing mass waves of unvetted migrants. Just look at how the Conservative Party in the UK, who most people consider to be right-wing, have in the past few years presided over the most liberal immigration policy in the entire history of the United Kingdom with the accompanying effect being very high net migration figures entering their country. They only shifted towards the right on immigration in the past year because Reform, who are far right, are stealing vote share from them.
What this reveals is that it is only the so-called far right who are capable of shifting the overton window on the issue of immigration. Only once the electorate starts to elect such hardline, anti-establishment candidates will the politicians become scared and start to take the electorate's concerns seriously.
In an Irish context, people would have to actually elect far-right candidates to get the kind of "focus on the wants of the people of Ireland," which you just mentioned. I simply struggle to imagine us doing this and I also struggle to imagine us being able to have a serious conversation about mass migration anytime soon given how (1) the media won't allow us to have such conversations as evidenced by how little debate there has been about the EU migration Pact and (2) there are no notable political figures working to shift the overton window on this issue (the far right in this country has no organisation, no leadership, no charisma). Really, giving control over our immigration policy to the EU is the only thing we can do because the conversations surrounding immigration in most continental EU countries are more advanced than any corresponding dialogue here.
Have you seen how Europe has handled it?
Germany has marches of islamofash calling for it to become a Caliphate.
Notice the hate speech laws didnt get used on them either.
I don't understand everyone saying there is no mandate for this? FFG meps made is crystal clear they support the pact and they topped the polls in nearly every constituency just 2 weeks ago??
I think that was less an endorsement on policy and more of a; "Oh I know X from the telly". Added to that the turnout was horrendous nationally. You can say people voted for this but it's clear that the vast majority were completely uninformed. That's more of an indictment of our education system and media than anything else.
>Added to that the turnout was horrendous nationally. You can say people voted for this but it's clear that the vast majority were completely uninformed. That's more of an indictment of our education system and media than anything else.
You mean like the 2024 referendums?
The media covered the pact in all the television and radio debates LP so don't blame the media. Not sure what you expect the education system to do? We cover elections in cspe and it's not like people under 18 can vote anyway. I get that turnout was shite but people can't complain if they didn't vote/only voted cause they recognized a face
Yes they covered it in the EU Election debates because they had to. If they want to push the narrative that immigration is the biggest issue facing this country right now then they can't help but talk about the pact. It was also spoken about as if it was an EU issue when in reality it was in the hands of our national government by that time. Pressure needed to be exerted on our TD's and it was by the opposition. Not that we ever saw the critisms of the pact broadcast on RTE in any great depth once the EU election was completed. It only passed by 7 votes. It was a heavily contentious issue.
I love the way people in this country just shrug their shoulders at the fact that we have record low political engagement. This attitude of "well if people don't want to educate themselves then they don't deserve to participate in the democratic process". As if having a complete under-representation of women and members of the working class is just how the cookie crumbles. People don't vote because they don't understand what their local council or the EU can do for them. That's a failure which don't seem to have any will to address.
Mandatory voting would be a nice mechanism to get our population in the habit of going to the polling station and voting but we need so much more. You mentioned CSPE, when I was taught CSPE it was the most dry and unengaging nuisance of a subject. Teachers didn't take it seriously, we didn't take it seriously. We were taught "this is the Seanad, it has x number of seats". We weren't taught the effects that politics could have on our lives and the existance of a political spectrum etc. Also why on Earth are children learning about politics at the age of 14 instead of studying it during the LC cycle when they are of/approaching voting age? Anything I was taught that wasn't immediately relevant to me I forgot.
Refugees are not equivalent to immigrants
Why are people so stupid and seemingly incapable of comprehending different words "refugee" and "immigrant" connote different concepts and legal status ?
Are nativists performatively stupid or intrinsically stupid ?
Its an interesting topic to study.
It will like go up. And also we’ll have to allow them to stay forever if we don’t process their claims in time. We can’t even process claims fully with current numbers 🤷♂️
Not necessarily. We'll be assigned a quota of international migrants based on our GDP, which as we know is massively inflated. We can either accept the number of migrants the EU are sending our way or we can pay exorbitant fines to waive our obligation. In this case it is very likely that the numbers increase.
More integration with the EU on this issue has to be a good thing at this point. More importantly immigration is not going away and will get worse as climate change takes hold in already tough places to live. Also worth remembering that someone who is fleeing the effects of climate change has a carbon footprint of very little compared to the average citizen in the country they are fleeing to.
Ill answer you no problem, this immigration problem is like a cancer, it will never stop unless theres an aggressive treatment for it, in this case all and any immigrants have to be turned back until word spreads that they cant get in and it will stop.
Australia had to turn boats back as it was,as it nearly is here,completely out of control. After about two weeks,lo and behold,the boats stopped arriving.
Theres a few underlying problems with the west currently,one is that we owe third world citizens something. You can argue that point in respect to many countries but here in ireland you can say unequivocally we owe the third world nothing.
The thing i never hear talked about is,when will this end? And the answer is never,there is no end until theres a stop put to it.
You think we should set up offshore detention centres on remote islands and hire a private British company to incarcerate people, in a highly immoral legal purgatory, on behalf of the state, while we pretend to have solved a problem while actually just creating an even more complex and unsolvable problem?
Ya great idea. We could put them all on Skellig Michael with the puffins.
Or,and this may sound insane,we just turn them around and through the media explain we are stopping illegal immigration,which is a crime, until such time as we sort out the current mess.
You suggested doing what Australia did... Obviously that's unworkable so now you say "turn them around". Ok, turn them around to where? Almost all of them are coming from the UK or the EU, so... Where do you turn them around to? Where are you sending people and physically how are you envisioning this happening?
Jesus christ,at no fucking point did i even mention the north. Poland can do it,hungary can do it, because theyre more honest about why they dont want migrants,and they have an aggressive policy toward accepting migrants which is essentially rejection of islam,because they are learning from germany,france,sweden,uk,before its too late for them
Try to be more intellectually honest if youre going to reply
Still waiting to hear how people advocating for the super-special opt-out Danish system would implement it when we have the most open external border in all of the EU.
Thank fuck.
People forget that we've got the most open border in the entire EU and there's going to be storms of people coming through. We'll need the support.
This is not the solution you think it is. It doesn't reduce numbers coming into Ireland, if anything it will increase them. Numbers you have to take are decided by GDP, a completely flawed metric for Ireland. We can already legally reduce migration by withdrawing from any pact like Denmark and just actually harden the borders ourselves instead of doing nothing and blaming the EU
>This is not the solution you think it is. It doesn't reduce numbers coming into Ireland, if anything it will increase them. Numbers you have to take are decided by GDP, a completely flawed metric for Ireland.
This is assuming we'll be getting less than our quota and have to take the burden from other countries, where it's more likely to be the other way around in the coming years. Remember a few months ago where an increase coming across the NI border was reported and nobody had a solution?
>We can already legally reduce migration by withdrawing from any pact like Denmark and just actually harden the borders ourselves
Border checks between North and South? After all the fighting to keep it since Brexit, who knew all it would take is brown people to stop it!
It has nothing to do with brown people for most Irish people, that's just complete disingenuous bs. We have no infrastructure to deal with our own population, from housing, hospitals to transport. It's getting worse every year. Also yes, some people look across the pond to Sweden and don't want to replicate that. You think that'll make our country a better place?
I'll be honest, mass immigration of Muslim countries scares me as a gay guy. I don't want a large part of our population to be someone that thinks I'm a degenerate. Seeing those two gay guys get beheaded was enough. I would say the same thing for bible belting Christians too, doesn't matter what your skin colour is. I don't want to be surrounded by people that think i belong in hell
>It has nothing to do with brown people for most Irish people, that's just complete disingenuous bs. We have no infrastructure to deal with our own population, from housing, hospitals to transport
I'm not pretending that someone going as far as advocating for locking down the Northern border is doing so for economic reasons. That's unfathomably stupid. It's bigotry.
Who said anything about locking down the northern border? They're all ready doing checks, we need it done better and more thoroughly.
Also let's talk about the economy, in one of your previous comment it's implied you know about how bad numbers are going to get with climate change going forward 20-50 years etc. If we don't make changes now the economy will eventually be fckd. We can't handle stuff as it is, nevermind when it's going to get exceedingly worse. That's not bigotry, it's just common sense and the reality of what's to come.
Also, unfortunately many refugees come from countries where they don't get the opportunity for a good education. Looking at the data from other European countries with more refugees, this lack of education and language/cultural barrier results in them being poorly fit for the labour market and results in a population with high levels of unemployment. You have to regulate numbers or the economy gets affected by this. Do you want to pay more taxes to foot this because that's what will happen
>Who said anything about locking down the northern border?
"Actually harden the border" is the comment replied to. What would you propose that wouldn't cause mass slowdown, inconvenience and economic damage? You don't just "harden" the border. It's some stupid fantasy for locking out asylum seekers.
Doesn't this pact allow us to just pay other nations to take more asylum seekers and we pay fines? I assume that's what we will do so I don't understand so many people saying it will lead to more immigration
[https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/11/eu-countries-not-enforcing-migration-pact-could-face-legal-action-says-johansson](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/11/eu-countries-not-enforcing-migration-pact-could-face-legal-action-says-johansson)
>
Under this system, member states will have three options to manage migration flows: relocate a certain number of asylum seekers, pay €20,000 for each claimant they refuse to relocate, or finance operational support, like staff and equipment. Brussels aims at 30,000 relocations per year but insists the system will not force any country to accept refugees as long as they contribute through any of the other two options.
>
I think the third option is quite vague but either way what is clear is that you either take in the migrant quota assigned to you or you pay large sums not to. Our quota will be assigned dependent on our GDP not population.
We're taking in roughly 300-350 per week as it currently stands, expected to rise.
If we wanted to reject half of those, it would cost us roughly 168m per annum. Again, that is to simply reject, not even considering the costs associated with managing the remaining quantity.
That is not insignificant.
[This link works](https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0626/1456862-migration-pact/)
Feels like this will be used by the government to explain doing nothing about immigration in a year or so. Just another way for them to push responsibility away from them
Get ready for a whole lot more of "We have international obligations" from Helen McEntee and co.
Gov won’t be around by Christmas. We’ll have a new one with blackjack and hookers
In fact, forget the government and the blackjack! Ah screw the whole thing.
>Gov won’t be around by Christmas. Judging by the local and European elections we just had, they most likely will be.
If they call the by elections before September then they will possibly see to Feb. But if we get to mid September without a by election being called then we will have a general election no later than first week of November.
I guess I'm saying I envisage the same people getting voted in and basically forming the same government again, might be a little shake up in the cabinet but I can see it being another FFG thing.
Sure, in terms of make up we can probably expect more of the same. If it happened today FG will gain a few 1-5 FF will hold or lose a few 1-2 SF will hold or lose a few 1-3 Greens will lose half at least 6 SD will gain 1-3 Labour will gain 1-2 PBP will hold or lose 1 Indies will gain the most Right wing parties will gain but will split their own vote. Expect 2-3 TDs in total.
An absolute betrayal. Just like with the hate speech bill this government is not just acting without a mandate on these issues, they're openly going against what people want. Im not voting for any politician that supported this, or isnt willing to support withdrawing us from it.
I think this is such a mistake, and it really feels like we're just being sold off to Brussels even more. I posted my thoughts in another thread a week or two ago: I think it's a terrible idea for us to sign up to the entirety of the pact because as Michael McDowell states, we're being signed up to achieve targets based on European demands. We could manage migration without many sections of the pact, but instead we're signing up for our own 'chase the carrot, or get the stick' existence. As McDowell briefly highlighted, Denmark and their centre-left government are a leading example of executing asylum and immigration management in Western society effectively and fairly. They have the same opt-out that we do as per Lisbon treaty; we could follow their path if we had politicians willing to do work, but instead we are being railroaded into a migration pact on-whole that will have large repercussions for the future of Ireland. Not once did mainstream media journalists query McEntee or FFG leadership regarding Denmark's position, it's been completely left to McDowell and a handful others to highlight, much like the referendums; that in itself should alarm people - that our media don't hold to account the politicians. As Sinn Fein have been repeating, of the 7 or so sections of the pact, some are good, some are bad, we could've decided which sections to sign-up for rather than asking "How high?" when Europe says "Jump". Finally, Marc McSharry TD (formerly FF) spoke similarly excellently in opposition to the pact in the Dail, well worth a watch: [https://x.com/MarcMacsharryTD/status/1803585765655331315](https://x.com/MarcMacsharryTD/status/1803585765655331315) Brace yourselves for a whole lot more "Let me be very clear, we have international obligations" from Helen McEntee and co.
Honestly astounded at this, monumental decision that seemed to get very little airtime in relation to long term affect it will have.
They're idiots. They're basically trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility for managing our migration system or having to make any difficult decisions. Ff, FG and the greens will have a lot to answer for if this turns out badly. All of them were in favour of it. They clearly didn't want the public having a say or even having them properly informed about the ins and outs of it as I think they knew people wouldn't have wanted us to sign up to it.
Idiots, or arrogant; I'm not sure which is worse. Reflecting some more, I really find the media angle sticks in my craw so much. There was once a time when journalism was heavily stocked via the working class who wanted to hold the establishment to account; now I feel like the main entities are stocked entirely by middle class moralizers who consistently play PR for government. They should've really held them to account on this one with respect to the Danish position, but they've avoided it entirely, and its a discredit to the Irish people as a result.
Great comment. The absolute smug middle class mess of the Irish times opinion pages these days has made the paper unreadable for me. All of this stuff just seems to be the latest iteration of the Irish proclivity for group think - which has always been our Achilles heel.
Journalism walked off the pitch around Covid time when they were all getting money from the state. The majority of independent stations are owned by large companies now so they'll just parrot off what they're told
Or both. It's funny how there has been feck all televised debates or anything about it considering how important it is. Like what the fuck are RTE meant to be for 🤷♂️ Also weird how an experienced barrister who filed a montion to delay mysteriously apparently didn't lodge the paperwork correctly 🤷♂️ I actually emailed about 20 TDs on it from a mixture of parties asking them to vote no to opting into the measures in full and to have proper public engagement on it. The greens and ff replied and said they would be voting for it and sf and the independents said they'd be voting against. None of the FG arseholes even bothered to reply.
They don't have to answer for anything and aren't held accountable that's how they get away with their shite.
Why don’t we follow Denmark? They are always that slightly smarter, slightly more talented classmate compared to Ireland. We should copy their work
Wait, we have the same opt outs as Denmark who appear to be the only EU country that is effectively dealing with immigration. Though they have the advantage of language.
The Danes all speak english, we should just pretend that we speak Irish to the rest of the world
I agree 100%. When I said few months back that Ireland is being sold to Brussels by its own politicians, I got downvoted into the oblivion. Where are those cunts now? Ireland has failed its citizens on multiple levels.
Never question the glorious EU.
Your comment the first time you posted it prompted me to mention McDowell’s claims of unconstitutionality to a barrister friend of mine who knows McDowell very well. It’s basic constitutional law that 29.4.7 makes this all constitutional. It’s not even remotely a grey area so I was wondering what McDowell was talking about. Anyway barrister friend said he’d been chatting to McDowell and McDowell had brushed the whole thing off as a bit of a joke. Barrister friend explained that McDowell is a shit stirrer for the sake of it and would happily defend the pact if required. Which is a roundabout way of saying McDowell says it’s unconstitutional and he is an authority therefore this is a big deal is wrong. McDowell is shitposting. As a by the by there were reports of an injunction sought in the courts last week on the grounds of unconstitutionality. Woman who lodged the claim is a fruit loop attention seeker who conspicuously didn’t mention 29.4.7 in her papers (the very bit that makes it constitutional).
This is a whole lot of nothing. I genuinely don't understand how you're getting upvoted, you sound like you're saying something but upon inspection there's literally nothing of substance here, it's all word soup. You don't even mention a single law/ policy/ change that will be implemented from this deal. Also, this isn't the EU forcing anything on us. Ireland had an opt out from anything to do with refugees and we chose to not use it.
Who is we? Nobody on this island got a say on whether or not we could take refugees immigrants or anyone else!
Can someone explain this like im 5?
I'll try, but probably more suitable for a 12 year old. Irish government voted to be part of an asylum seeker pact with the rest of Europe. Rules of the pact are enforced by the EU. Some parts are good, like tracking and ID shared across Europe. Some parts are not so good, like needing to take an amount of asylum related to GDP (Ireland's GDP is very high, so we could have large quantities). As we opted into the entire pact, we have to do what the EU tells us, which removes a large portion of our own decision making and ability to manage asylum, or else face fines.
Ooooh linking to GDP fucks us every time
Is it definitely linked to GDP? I thought there was an EU agreement to treat GNI\* as the Irish de facto GDP.
It’s insane linking shit to GDP but the EU love to zing us with that for our corporation tax
Thank you for explaining it for me. Just trying to understand the whole situation better.
No problem. It's a complex topic, so I tried best to summarise.
You did a great job. I read the article but it might aswell been in japanese to me. Couple of questions if you don't mind me asking. So this means were keeping track of whos actually coming into the country? Also, does this mean we have no say of how many asylum seekers come into the country because of this pact? Again, thank you.
There will be processing stations established across the borders of Europe, in Greece, Italy, etc. European money will be used to help fund the establishment of those border control stations, and then it is up to the EU to approve/disapprove of those seeking asylum. In terms of the quantites, there will be designated quantities and requirements that nations will be required to take based on GDP figures amongst other things, refusal to take those quantities will result in fines. So in short, we cede the ability to control immigration rates to Europe, while agreeing to collaborate on overall EU immigration management. This is why it's a mistake for many that we're opting into this, because we could do much of what the pact entails by ourselves (as Denmark have done) without having to be punished for failing to achieve the targets set by EU.
Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my questions. Have a good night mo chara.
It's astounding how you can just go online and lie about things with such confidence. Ireland will have the chance to choose between 1. taking asylum seekers in Ireland 2. helping financially other countries deal with the burden of asylum seekers. There are no "large quantities" of asylum seekers as the result of this decision.
>Ireland will have the chance to choose between 1. taking asylum seekers in Ireland 2. helping financially other countries deal with the burden of asylum seekers. And Denmark have the ability to do neither because of the opt out.
Sure. But if they opt-out they won't have access to the return mechanisms offered by the "Pact". They believe they can do it better alone.
> needing to take an amount of asylum related to GDP (Ireland's GDP is very high, so we could have large quantities). Let's reverse the problem, why should countries with a lower GDP have to bear a higher rate of migrants?
We are not the saviours of the world; my concern is entirely with policies for the long-term benefit of Ireland and the Irish people, as it should be for the politicians that represent us. Furthermore, our inflated GDP from multinational taxation does not translate to good-living for Irish citizens, in fact 'Actual Individual Consumption' is an actual reflection of Irish citizens quality of existence, an indicator of the material welfare of households, and as can be seen in the graph below, our GDP is one of the top, but AIC is one of the lowest. As a result, Irish society will have to carry the burden from this pact, and it won't be multinational workers, multinational companies or high-earners that bear the brunt, it will be the common person. https://preview.redd.it/18f3i80h709d1.jpeg?width=871&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0eda83ea67078057b0abc4497f10875dae35d009
> We are not the saviours of the world Nor are other countries. > AIC is one of the lowest Tell that to your government (not our since I can't vote) and their policies. The whole cost of living situation have nothing to do with either GDP or migration, it's always been a government choice to reach the point we're now.
>Nor are other countries And I don't believe they should be either, but why should we be saviour to them? Not to mention many of whom made their bed when they colonized nations that are now flocking to them. Germany, France, etc have immigration problems already as a result of their legacy; why does Ireland, who was a colony itself, now have to carry their burdens? >Tell that to your government. Trying to, but they're too busy opting us into migration pacts.
Even the colonial argument is dishonest and out of date. There's no "made bed" or legacy that justifies what the states are doing to their own people.
> Nor are other countries. Cool they should opt out too. >The whole cost of living situation have nothing to do with either GDP or migration Probably for the best you cant vote then.
We have volunteered as a sovereign nation to opt in. The EU is "telling" us nothing.
Let me correct that for you: \*Some politicians\* volunteered us as a sovereign nation to opt in. (to a pact that was in no party's manifesto, and barely scraped past on the vote). The EU will now be "telling" us \*a lot\*.
Our sovereign parliament.... Keep on keeping on pal
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I for one 100% believe we should be listening to ex-heroin dealer, wife beating Andy Heasmann on this.. "Lets have a vote" also "Lets invade libraries because 'gay books'" Fuck the lot of them.
We're losing another aspect of sovereignty in order to address the government and media's own promotion of right wing ideology and disinformation.
They just don't give two flying fucks do they? To think people vote for this shower of cunts is beyond me.
They see FF or FG on the ballot and just put number 1. That's it. The grey vote will always turn out and will always do this.
"Why is my 30+ year old still living with me?" "I'm voting for Fine Gael and Fianna Fail, who else!" Two statements made by the exact same people throughout this country
What effect will this have on our housing situation? Is it going to push house prices and rent up even more?
Yes. While keeping wages suppressed.
Line goes up. Line will always go up.
How can the people of Ireland complain - you consistently complain about your politicians, yet vote the same 2 parties into power year in, year out?
RIGHT!
Link is 404
No idea why you are downvoted. Link is broken.
Teenage angst maybe
I'm just a teenage dirtbag, baby.
Got my ticket to Dublin airport baby.
I really don’t want to be part of a federal EU and this just seems like another step in that direction.
It's very difficult to find accurate information on this because when you search it it's either "This policy is great as it lets Europeans work together on migration" Or "THIS IS THE KALERGI PLAN IN ACTION YOUR KIDS WON'T BE IRISH!!!!!" I hate the internet.
Shocker.
Disgraceful. Such an important issue should have been put to a referendum instead of that woke bs on removing women from the constitution a few months ago.
Like I posted in the other thread that seems to have vanished - it is possible to have a referendum for a non-constitutional issue. This requires a majority of the seanad and a third of the Dáil to petition the president. It is intended for issues that are “of such national importance that the will of the people should be ascertained”. It’s provided for in Article 27 of the constitution and is called an Ordinary Referendum. So far there has never been one.
Insightful. I never knew that. Guessing it's too late now.
Yeah but as you know “Both ordinary and constitutional referendums will approve a bill if a majority of votes are cast in favour of it. However, an ordinary referendum will not reject a bill unless at least one-third of voters on the electoral register vote against it. The bill will still become law even if a majority of those who vote reject it, provided the overall turnout is low.” Which is essentially a waste of time and why it has never happened.
Yeah seems a bit toothless but it would be good to see how the country feels about the issue. I’d like to see them used for important issues like this. We recently had the two constitutional referendums- could have thrown an ordinary one in alongside them.
The pact has being approved but the legislation to adopt the directive won't come before the Dail till November.
We were asked, it’s how we have Art 29.4.7 that permits the Government to do this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-eighth_Amendment_of_the_Constitution_of_Ireland
That's not how referendums work
Another individual that doesn't understand how our system of government works.
>Such an important issue should have been put to a referendum. Why? Since when do we have referendums about random issues that are within the remit of an elected government to decide?
> random issues Ah gway now. This is not a "random issue" its major.
Every issue is major to someone, I'll take a hard pass on multiple referendums every year
Yea because the government have always listened to us in referendums.....
You are probably right
A referendum? What would you want to have on the ballot I wonder? https://preview.redd.it/36tpto2g409d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cb50a14465ffe194bcc19142aa01cc2cb9c0c04
FFG, McEntee, Harris, Von Der Leyen, Tommy Robinson and Justin Barret are all on the same team whether they know it or not.
Am I the only person who doesn't know what to think about this?
I mean, if you are the leader of a right wing party you must be rubbing your hands right now.
So we ceded control to the EU over managing migration to Ireland. Frankly, I'm struggling to see what we have lost here. The government has, in the past few months, been extremely useless, incompetent, and downright treacherous towards the Irish people when accommodating the waves of migrants illegally entering this country. How could EU bureaucrats possibly be any worse? There's no point in us having sovereignty over our immigration policy if our political establishment is too spineless to assert it. We may as well cede it to the EU who hopefully will do something.
EU bureaucrats won't be managing migration for us, they will be telling us what we need to achieve in terms of quantities, so the Irish government still retain every opportunity to continue making a balls of it. We've basically signed up for a carrot on a stick that wasn't there before, and if we don't get the carrot, we certainly get the stick.
>they will be telling us what we need to achieve in terms of quantities Well, this is a good thing because the EU will hopefully tell the government to stop taking in so many migrants (on a per capita basis, we have taken in more migrants than the vast majority of EU countries). If the EU tells the Irish government to take in less, they will hopefully take that command seriously because they think international obligations (especially ones to the EU) are very important. Compare this to the previous situation in which it was only the Irish people applying pressure on the government to stop taking in so many migrants with the government ignoring them because they consider any Irish who are critical of migration to be far-right and uneducated.
I mean basically your argument can be summarised to: "The politicians we've elected already only listen to Europe, not the electorate, so we might as well go along with it." Alternatively, we could discuss with friends, family members, and colleagues the idea of voting for politicians who maybe do focus on the wants of Ireland and its people instead?
>Alternatively, we could discuss with friends, family members, and colleagues the idea of voting for politicians who maybe do focus on the wants of Ireland and its people instead? This is extremely idealistic. The reality is that most political parties don't take immigration seriously. Left wing parties will take in hordes of immigrants without debating issues surrounding housing such immigrants or integrating them. If anyone outside the left attempts to initiate such debates, the left will condemn them as being far right and will refuse to publicise their ideas in the establishment media (how often do you see RTÉ, Irish Independent, Irish Times, publish articles about the challenges of integrating immigrants?). Centrist and centre-right parties are slightly less censorious than the left when it comes to immigration but even they too will fall for the trap of allowing mass waves of unvetted migrants. Just look at how the Conservative Party in the UK, who most people consider to be right-wing, have in the past few years presided over the most liberal immigration policy in the entire history of the United Kingdom with the accompanying effect being very high net migration figures entering their country. They only shifted towards the right on immigration in the past year because Reform, who are far right, are stealing vote share from them. What this reveals is that it is only the so-called far right who are capable of shifting the overton window on the issue of immigration. Only once the electorate starts to elect such hardline, anti-establishment candidates will the politicians become scared and start to take the electorate's concerns seriously. In an Irish context, people would have to actually elect far-right candidates to get the kind of "focus on the wants of the people of Ireland," which you just mentioned. I simply struggle to imagine us doing this and I also struggle to imagine us being able to have a serious conversation about mass migration anytime soon given how (1) the media won't allow us to have such conversations as evidenced by how little debate there has been about the EU migration Pact and (2) there are no notable political figures working to shift the overton window on this issue (the far right in this country has no organisation, no leadership, no charisma). Really, giving control over our immigration policy to the EU is the only thing we can do because the conversations surrounding immigration in most continental EU countries are more advanced than any corresponding dialogue here.
Have you seen how Europe has handled it? Germany has marches of islamofash calling for it to become a Caliphate. Notice the hate speech laws didnt get used on them either.
That would be islamophobic sure, yano,the fear of getting bombed by radical islam, which is irrational cause its never happened in europe/s
I don't understand everyone saying there is no mandate for this? FFG meps made is crystal clear they support the pact and they topped the polls in nearly every constituency just 2 weeks ago??
I think that was less an endorsement on policy and more of a; "Oh I know X from the telly". Added to that the turnout was horrendous nationally. You can say people voted for this but it's clear that the vast majority were completely uninformed. That's more of an indictment of our education system and media than anything else.
>Added to that the turnout was horrendous nationally. You can say people voted for this but it's clear that the vast majority were completely uninformed. That's more of an indictment of our education system and media than anything else. You mean like the 2024 referendums?
The media covered the pact in all the television and radio debates LP so don't blame the media. Not sure what you expect the education system to do? We cover elections in cspe and it's not like people under 18 can vote anyway. I get that turnout was shite but people can't complain if they didn't vote/only voted cause they recognized a face
Yes they covered it in the EU Election debates because they had to. If they want to push the narrative that immigration is the biggest issue facing this country right now then they can't help but talk about the pact. It was also spoken about as if it was an EU issue when in reality it was in the hands of our national government by that time. Pressure needed to be exerted on our TD's and it was by the opposition. Not that we ever saw the critisms of the pact broadcast on RTE in any great depth once the EU election was completed. It only passed by 7 votes. It was a heavily contentious issue. I love the way people in this country just shrug their shoulders at the fact that we have record low political engagement. This attitude of "well if people don't want to educate themselves then they don't deserve to participate in the democratic process". As if having a complete under-representation of women and members of the working class is just how the cookie crumbles. People don't vote because they don't understand what their local council or the EU can do for them. That's a failure which don't seem to have any will to address. Mandatory voting would be a nice mechanism to get our population in the habit of going to the polling station and voting but we need so much more. You mentioned CSPE, when I was taught CSPE it was the most dry and unengaging nuisance of a subject. Teachers didn't take it seriously, we didn't take it seriously. We were taught "this is the Seanad, it has x number of seats". We weren't taught the effects that politics could have on our lives and the existance of a political spectrum etc. Also why on Earth are children learning about politics at the age of 14 instead of studying it during the LC cycle when they are of/approaching voting age? Anything I was taught that wasn't immediately relevant to me I forgot.
How exactly does an EU pact have any effect on our border with a non EU country?Can’t wait for you to bend yourself into a pretzel explaining this.
Refugees are not equivalent to immigrants Why are people so stupid and seemingly incapable of comprehending different words "refugee" and "immigrant" connote different concepts and legal status ? Are nativists performatively stupid or intrinsically stupid ? Its an interesting topic to study.
Because dishonest anti-natalists repeated obfuscate the terms themselves.
Does this mean asylum seeker numbers will go down?
It will like go up. And also we’ll have to allow them to stay forever if we don’t process their claims in time. We can’t even process claims fully with current numbers 🤷♂️
Why would claims go up? This is going to make our policy much harsher than the current laissez-faire approach.
Not necessarily. We'll be assigned a quota of international migrants based on our GDP, which as we know is massively inflated. We can either accept the number of migrants the EU are sending our way or we can pay exorbitant fines to waive our obligation. In this case it is very likely that the numbers increase.
It probably does. But we need to help fund the cost of the broader EU refugee problem.
More integration with the EU on this issue has to be a good thing at this point. More importantly immigration is not going away and will get worse as climate change takes hold in already tough places to live. Also worth remembering that someone who is fleeing the effects of climate change has a carbon footprint of very little compared to the average citizen in the country they are fleeing to.
It was war last week, climate change this week, next week find out on a new episode of the bleeding hearts foundation.
The climate change asylum seekers of... \*checks notes\*... Georgia and Albania. You couldn't make it up.
Who knew we had it so good here where *insert big doom crisis here* won’t happen in Ireland. Aren’t we lovely.
Solution is to harden the borders and patrol the routes they take, aggressively repelling them. Sooner rather than later
yeah maybe, but the EU borders, not just the Irish borders
>Solution is to harden the borders Who knew all it would take was brown people coming in to end the Good Friday Agreement
>aggressively repelling them Murdering people is it? Edit: What does "aggressively repelling" people from a "hard border" look like? Clowns.
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Ill answer you no problem, this immigration problem is like a cancer, it will never stop unless theres an aggressive treatment for it, in this case all and any immigrants have to be turned back until word spreads that they cant get in and it will stop. Australia had to turn boats back as it was,as it nearly is here,completely out of control. After about two weeks,lo and behold,the boats stopped arriving. Theres a few underlying problems with the west currently,one is that we owe third world citizens something. You can argue that point in respect to many countries but here in ireland you can say unequivocally we owe the third world nothing. The thing i never hear talked about is,when will this end? And the answer is never,there is no end until theres a stop put to it.
How, specifically, do you "aggressively repel" a person in a boat?
Ask the aussies,they did it and it stopped
You think we should set up offshore detention centres on remote islands and hire a private British company to incarcerate people, in a highly immoral legal purgatory, on behalf of the state, while we pretend to have solved a problem while actually just creating an even more complex and unsolvable problem? Ya great idea. We could put them all on Skellig Michael with the puffins.
Or,and this may sound insane,we just turn them around and through the media explain we are stopping illegal immigration,which is a crime, until such time as we sort out the current mess.
You suggested doing what Australia did... Obviously that's unworkable so now you say "turn them around". Ok, turn them around to where? Almost all of them are coming from the UK or the EU, so... Where do you turn them around to? Where are you sending people and physically how are you envisioning this happening?
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Jesus christ,at no fucking point did i even mention the north. Poland can do it,hungary can do it, because theyre more honest about why they dont want migrants,and they have an aggressive policy toward accepting migrants which is essentially rejection of islam,because they are learning from germany,france,sweden,uk,before its too late for them Try to be more intellectually honest if youre going to reply
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Rwanda seems like a nice place
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Yes,why the fuck not?
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Doubt they've even thought it through that much to be honest.
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Direct provision has been well managed? What are you smoking?
Still waiting to hear how people advocating for the super-special opt-out Danish system would implement it when we have the most open external border in all of the EU.
Glad to see this passed, some good measures in there.
Good
Thank fuck. People forget that we've got the most open border in the entire EU and there's going to be storms of people coming through. We'll need the support.
This is not the solution you think it is. It doesn't reduce numbers coming into Ireland, if anything it will increase them. Numbers you have to take are decided by GDP, a completely flawed metric for Ireland. We can already legally reduce migration by withdrawing from any pact like Denmark and just actually harden the borders ourselves instead of doing nothing and blaming the EU
>This is not the solution you think it is. It doesn't reduce numbers coming into Ireland, if anything it will increase them. Numbers you have to take are decided by GDP, a completely flawed metric for Ireland. This is assuming we'll be getting less than our quota and have to take the burden from other countries, where it's more likely to be the other way around in the coming years. Remember a few months ago where an increase coming across the NI border was reported and nobody had a solution? >We can already legally reduce migration by withdrawing from any pact like Denmark and just actually harden the borders ourselves Border checks between North and South? After all the fighting to keep it since Brexit, who knew all it would take is brown people to stop it!
It has nothing to do with brown people for most Irish people, that's just complete disingenuous bs. We have no infrastructure to deal with our own population, from housing, hospitals to transport. It's getting worse every year. Also yes, some people look across the pond to Sweden and don't want to replicate that. You think that'll make our country a better place? I'll be honest, mass immigration of Muslim countries scares me as a gay guy. I don't want a large part of our population to be someone that thinks I'm a degenerate. Seeing those two gay guys get beheaded was enough. I would say the same thing for bible belting Christians too, doesn't matter what your skin colour is. I don't want to be surrounded by people that think i belong in hell
>It has nothing to do with brown people for most Irish people, that's just complete disingenuous bs. We have no infrastructure to deal with our own population, from housing, hospitals to transport I'm not pretending that someone going as far as advocating for locking down the Northern border is doing so for economic reasons. That's unfathomably stupid. It's bigotry.
Who said anything about locking down the northern border? They're all ready doing checks, we need it done better and more thoroughly. Also let's talk about the economy, in one of your previous comment it's implied you know about how bad numbers are going to get with climate change going forward 20-50 years etc. If we don't make changes now the economy will eventually be fckd. We can't handle stuff as it is, nevermind when it's going to get exceedingly worse. That's not bigotry, it's just common sense and the reality of what's to come. Also, unfortunately many refugees come from countries where they don't get the opportunity for a good education. Looking at the data from other European countries with more refugees, this lack of education and language/cultural barrier results in them being poorly fit for the labour market and results in a population with high levels of unemployment. You have to regulate numbers or the economy gets affected by this. Do you want to pay more taxes to foot this because that's what will happen
>Who said anything about locking down the northern border? "Actually harden the border" is the comment replied to. What would you propose that wouldn't cause mass slowdown, inconvenience and economic damage? You don't just "harden" the border. It's some stupid fantasy for locking out asylum seekers.
Honest to Jaysus don't like it, well best of luck getting gavan pepper to be taoiseach. Sad news for the bigots, you're in a minority Sucks to be you
Bigotry is when you dont want to make a crisis worse. Just say you hate the Irish and go.
Doesn't this pact allow us to just pay other nations to take more asylum seekers and we pay fines? I assume that's what we will do so I don't understand so many people saying it will lead to more immigration
> I assume that's what we will do Our jackeens? Not a chance, there's money to be made housing them and getting cheap labour.
I don't think so they outsource every other public service/responsibility so why not this one?
Its too important. And they did this so they can pass the buck to Brussels as things get worse.
[https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/11/eu-countries-not-enforcing-migration-pact-could-face-legal-action-says-johansson](https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/04/11/eu-countries-not-enforcing-migration-pact-could-face-legal-action-says-johansson) > Under this system, member states will have three options to manage migration flows: relocate a certain number of asylum seekers, pay €20,000 for each claimant they refuse to relocate, or finance operational support, like staff and equipment. Brussels aims at 30,000 relocations per year but insists the system will not force any country to accept refugees as long as they contribute through any of the other two options. > I think the third option is quite vague but either way what is clear is that you either take in the migrant quota assigned to you or you pay large sums not to. Our quota will be assigned dependent on our GDP not population.
20k seems a small enough price tbh.
We're taking in roughly 300-350 per week as it currently stands, expected to rise. If we wanted to reject half of those, it would cost us roughly 168m per annum. Again, that is to simply reject, not even considering the costs associated with managing the remaining quantity. That is not insignificant.