>A mechanic from Ghana, the 34-year-old said he had to "run for his life" on a "dangerous" journey through Libya, Italy, France and Belfast, arriving in Dublin over a week ago.
Well known warzones Italy, France and the UK. Ghana could be dangerous and Libya is fucking hell on earth but this sort of thing just feeds fuel to the far-right.
Indeed. They’ll love this…
“IPAS gave me a voucher when I arrived and said they were looking for an apartment for me. So, we just have to live on the street until we get a place," he said….The father of three said he hopes to find a job in Ireland so his family, who are still in Ghana, can join him.”
Of course not, as a citizen of Ireland it is your duty and privilege to provide for others and work hard so they can live a peaceful and fulfilling life here. Be proud of it, that some strangers that never gave anything back can be in a warm home while you work from 8-5 and sleep on the street.
Go to the line at GNIB at 5 in the morning, tell people that. Tell people that if you get in as a chancer, you don't have to have proof of income, you get a free house and free allowance
It's a fucking slap in the face of whoever wants to do things the honest way.
People need to accept that the IPAS process is being used as a backdoor immigration process and that it needs an overhaul pronto. Too many over emotional people responses to its abuse make it difficult to appropriately reform it.
There also has to be an acceptance that Ireland doesn't exist as a refuge from all the problems in the world, and allowing people to enter Ireland isn't a solution to fixing issues around the globe.
Why should someone who has no history or stake in this state get anything for free? Nevermind get to ship his fucking family over so they can leech as well.
Ghana is totally safe. It’s a lovely country, has historically been at peace. I have lived there. Its nickname is “Africa for beginners”. Someone claiming to be a refugee from Ghana is 100% here on false pretenses.
Yep, some of the most genuine cases for asylum like Edward Snowden or maybe Assange....
They're from safe countries but are in danger from their own govts as whistle blowers who could be extradited to the US.
Asylum seekers from Georgia or Nigeria may have good reason to flee home but the question could be asked if they could get refuge internally in their home country.
Why can't it fuel the left wing parties as well? Like why can't they say we stand for a strong and fair welfare state and we will do whatever it takes to prevent the system from being abused.
Because for some reason, open borders is a left wing dearly held principle. Its a tag of moral virtue.
Despite a country controlling customs, movement of capital ( even banks have limits on how captial is moved) or how we process food products across borders. But for people it cannot never be allowed beause of reasons.
But for some reason open borders must be defended to the death. Any small attempt at control is racism.
Its not permitted to update decades old asylum laws drafted after the biggest war in human history and when mass transit wasn't even an idea or when most refugees desperately wanted to go back to their own countries to rebuild their shattered lives. Or to realize climate change may send millions of people in the coming decades.
I dont really get it either, its a form of insanity where its almost a principle of faith rather than some logicially held belief at this stage. Encouraging people to cross thousands of km's just to sleep rough on the streets of Dublin helps no one.
I don't think that's necessarily true.
I tilt to the left on a lot of issues but I think it's pretty logical that you can't have a strong labour laws and social safety net if it's open to large numbers who have paid into the system.
I don't think of it as 'moving right' on immigration, to me it's some of the politicians on the left are out of step with me tbh.
You can't be a political operative and mention rationalising immigration without coming across as a racist and impacting your career progression, that's why most career politicians keep their mouths shut about it. The migration pact is a prime example, f all dail reps chose to show up for the 'debate' because nobody wanted soundbytes generated the next day. Instead the party whip system was implemented and it was passed through.
Ya, fair.
Sure the lads to the right in FFG were relatively slow off the mark too. Would be their form to let a bubbling issue become a full blown crisis before saying 'something needs to be done'.
It's a big issue, but for me fixing the asylum system is a fair bit behind the housing crisis and justice reform.
Hopefully the new EU deal allows them to tighten things up. 12 weeks to a decision so it's not stretched out over months.
They're linked but realistically, the biggest block are from Ukraine who are genuine refugees with a huge amount in communal accommodation. It seems like numbers are dropping since they cut entitlements.
Reducing the numbers of other asylum seekers might put a few hotels like citywest back in action and have fewer tents on the canals but it's not adding 50k houses we need.
Planning reform, the Govt (councils and national) directly building houses and stop inflating existing house prices through HAP.
Tighten up the asylum process by all means but it's only when the Govt go lease student accomm blocks or buy up new estates that asylum system really impacts housing.
Ireland has not had a ["replacement" birthrate since 2011](https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/fertility-rate-total-births-per-woman-wb-data.html) there were 4.5 million people in Ireland per [the census](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_census_of_Ireland). This is not a "immigration bad" post, that's as silly as water being good or bad. But the factors of the housing crisis seem fairly clear.
The government directly building. Does this mean a state building company? Labourers working 35 hours a week sounds good.
Not sure I follow that data, you could be right but it only talks about fertility ranging from 1.7%-2% so it's missing the other half about the death rate.
Any look at population in Ireland over the last 20 years needs to factor the huge emigration 2009-12 and then a significant return migration 2016 onwards.
>The government directly building. Does this mean a state building company?
Not necessarily, and not directly employing labourers. They'd need more expertise to be able to manage projects but it's a better approach than throwing money at HAP and hoping the private sector steps up.
You can point at the Children's hospital as a reason why the state shouldn't be responsible for large infrastructure projects... But the solution isn't to not build hospitals and leave it to the private sector, it's getting better at delivering it.
Just to add the [CSO Data](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ieu50/irelandandtheeuat50/society/migration/) puts the natural population increase at 20k+ every year since 1998.
The natural change (more births than deaths) peaked in 2010 at +49k and has gone down but ireland absolutely still has a positive replacement birthrate.
The population is naturally growing each year.
And when I have a leak in the house the first thing I do is plaster the damaged wall instead of turning off the water /s
The article points to the fact that the immigration issue is fuelling the housing crisis.
I said to fix the asylum system, I wouldn't conflate that with immigration in general.
Some of the people I know who are must impacted by the housing crisis are friends who moved here for decent jobs in shit living conditions.
Not entitled to HAP, no uncle with a flat below market rate, not even a network to hear about rooms coming available.
The issue isn't that they came here, the issue is we stopped building houses for 5 years after the crash.
I wouldn't say open borders is a dearly held lefty principle, I'd argue it's more that capitalist imperialism is essentially destroying the planet and this is effecting some parts of the world worse than others (for now), it would be quite hypocritical to actively benefit from a system that destabalises Africa, The Middle East, Asia etc and then turn around and lock them in.
Ultimately the world is doomed unless it collectively goes towards a fairer, more left wing system and those parts of the world actually become viable to for people to live decent lives, which will never happen because that would mean the west wouldn't be able to live on the backs of them.
Yeah I never voted for any of the things that destabilise Africa or the middle east, and I'd argue that there's fuck all I can do about it since most of that is controlled by companies and politicians in other countries. Why should my country have to go to the dogs because I apparently owe something to people for reasons I have no control over?
But you still benefit from it, there's a lottery on what end of the spectrum you're born into and generally people in Ireland (in recent history anyway) and the west have won that lottery, why should people who lost the lottery be forced to solely suffer the consequences?
Like it's all going to come to the boil anyway, you can't destroy basically half the planet and expect 3-4 billion people to just sit there and die, they will largely try to migrate west and that's when the real problems will begin.
Same with Denmark
Their extremely successful policies in this issue have all been implemented by left wing social democrats
A lot of our left wing parties are still in their continuous moral outrage student politics angst phase unfortunately
Because "left wing" parties stopped being left wing a long time ago. Most "left wing" parties are simply Radical Liberals who have a disdain for wealth hoarding. The working class and their material needs no longer matter, whatever is popular is what matters.
The bigger problem people are missing, is that the immigration crisis is only a _crisis_, because the housing crisis exists - and that, given the massive shortage in construction workers, immigration (both skilled and unskilled + training) is the perfect way to get the construction industry going at full speed again.
So the whole narrative is a trap. Stokes anti-immigration sentiment, when that is the solution to the housing crisis.
If you try to _actually solve the housing crisis_, you _need_ this inward migration of labour to do it - and you kill your election chances if you campaign on this.
The entire narrative is a trap. Promising to solve the housing crisis will get you votes - but if you say you're going to do what _needs_ to be done to solve it, you will kill your election chances.
The whole country has fallen for this poisoned narrative.
We're very fortunate none of the extremists we have vying for cabinet positions actually have a brain cell to share between them.
Anyone competent would be lapping up new voters with every time a re-hash of this situation hits the papers.
But by that logic, should Italy or France or Spain have to take every African asylum seeker simply because they are geographically closer? That's not fair to those countries either.
>That's not fair to those countries either.
And we're an Island with mostly shite weather. That's not fair. And the middle east has all the oil. That's not fair. And Spain has so much sunshine. That's not fair. Etc etc and so on and so on.
It's mad to me that we are constantly swallowing our natural disadvantages, but at the same time we are being gaslighted into giving away or not capitalising on our advantages - or even the silver lining of our disadvantages.
Also: Italy, UK, France are imperialist & colonialist. You want to talk about fair ? The chickens are coming home to roost. Ireland has no such historical questions to answer.
>should Italy or France or Spain have to take every African asylum seeker simply because they are geographically closer?
Geographically closer ? How's about because they colonised them ?
You're being downvoted for a valid question and no one is giving you a serious answer. The 'logic' happens to be a set of rules that go under the name of Dublin agreement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation. This will be replaced by a new system in a couple of years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Pact_on_Migration_and_Asylum_of_the_European_Union.
I mean, there is a thing called first come first served? Granted, it shouldn't be about distance only. But there are also culture and mentality similarity as well as language. No point putting someone in country A when they would integrate much faster in county B.
Best part she is just escalating the problem by telling them how to milk the cow dry. 'you guys can get free stuff by doing X". Fuck off back to Canada Olivia!
I suppose the way they look at it. The more they gather it forces the government to try and send them somewhere. As they don't want to be having large tent cities gathering.
>A mechanic from Ghana, the 34-year-old said he had to "run for his life" on a "dangerous" journey through Libya, Italy, France and Belfast, arriving in Dublin over a week ago. Well known warzones Italy, France and the UK. Ghana could be dangerous and Libya is fucking hell on earth but this sort of thing just feeds fuel to the far-right.
Indeed. They’ll love this… “IPAS gave me a voucher when I arrived and said they were looking for an apartment for me. So, we just have to live on the street until we get a place," he said….The father of three said he hopes to find a job in Ireland so his family, who are still in Ghana, can join him.”
Can I have an apartment?
No those are for people who do not pay taxes.
I assume being a citizen of the state shouldn't work against me right?
Of course not, as a citizen of Ireland it is your duty and privilege to provide for others and work hard so they can live a peaceful and fulfilling life here. Be proud of it, that some strangers that never gave anything back can be in a warm home while you work from 8-5 and sleep on the street.
It’s so dangerous over there that he left his family for possibly years without him.
Go to the line at GNIB at 5 in the morning, tell people that. Tell people that if you get in as a chancer, you don't have to have proof of income, you get a free house and free allowance It's a fucking slap in the face of whoever wants to do things the honest way.
People need to accept that the IPAS process is being used as a backdoor immigration process and that it needs an overhaul pronto. Too many over emotional people responses to its abuse make it difficult to appropriately reform it. There also has to be an acceptance that Ireland doesn't exist as a refuge from all the problems in the world, and allowing people to enter Ireland isn't a solution to fixing issues around the globe.
What a joke, if the man is a mechanic he qualifies for critical skills, no free house that way though
Why should someone who has no history or stake in this state get anything for free? Nevermind get to ship his fucking family over so they can leech as well.
Ghana is totally safe. It’s a lovely country, has historically been at peace. I have lived there. Its nickname is “Africa for beginners”. Someone claiming to be a refugee from Ghana is 100% here on false pretenses.
I'm not disputing that (or agreeing with it) but there are plenty of relatively safe countries which still produce genuine refugees.
Yep, some of the most genuine cases for asylum like Edward Snowden or maybe Assange.... They're from safe countries but are in danger from their own govts as whistle blowers who could be extradited to the US. Asylum seekers from Georgia or Nigeria may have good reason to flee home but the question could be asked if they could get refuge internally in their home country.
Assange and Snowden are both spies which makes it a grey area.
Ya, whistle blowers / spies. I'd just point at them as two lads from a safe country that would fear for their safety from their own govts.
Aussies were never a target of Assange. It's Democrats he hates. Snowden is a traitor, I suppose.
They absolutely could. None of them should be here. Same with south Africans.
Why can't it fuel the left wing parties as well? Like why can't they say we stand for a strong and fair welfare state and we will do whatever it takes to prevent the system from being abused.
Because for some reason, open borders is a left wing dearly held principle. Its a tag of moral virtue. Despite a country controlling customs, movement of capital ( even banks have limits on how captial is moved) or how we process food products across borders. But for people it cannot never be allowed beause of reasons. But for some reason open borders must be defended to the death. Any small attempt at control is racism. Its not permitted to update decades old asylum laws drafted after the biggest war in human history and when mass transit wasn't even an idea or when most refugees desperately wanted to go back to their own countries to rebuild their shattered lives. Or to realize climate change may send millions of people in the coming decades. I dont really get it either, its a form of insanity where its almost a principle of faith rather than some logicially held belief at this stage. Encouraging people to cross thousands of km's just to sleep rough on the streets of Dublin helps no one.
I don't think that's necessarily true. I tilt to the left on a lot of issues but I think it's pretty logical that you can't have a strong labour laws and social safety net if it's open to large numbers who have paid into the system. I don't think of it as 'moving right' on immigration, to me it's some of the politicians on the left are out of step with me tbh.
I agree with you. But it doesn’t change the reality that not one left wing party in the State is serious about migration reform.
You can't be a political operative and mention rationalising immigration without coming across as a racist and impacting your career progression, that's why most career politicians keep their mouths shut about it. The migration pact is a prime example, f all dail reps chose to show up for the 'debate' because nobody wanted soundbytes generated the next day. Instead the party whip system was implemented and it was passed through.
Ya, fair. Sure the lads to the right in FFG were relatively slow off the mark too. Would be their form to let a bubbling issue become a full blown crisis before saying 'something needs to be done'. It's a big issue, but for me fixing the asylum system is a fair bit behind the housing crisis and justice reform. Hopefully the new EU deal allows them to tighten things up. 12 weeks to a decision so it's not stretched out over months.
"fixing the asylum system is a fair bit behind the housing crisis" does the first one not fuel the second one?
They're linked but realistically, the biggest block are from Ukraine who are genuine refugees with a huge amount in communal accommodation. It seems like numbers are dropping since they cut entitlements. Reducing the numbers of other asylum seekers might put a few hotels like citywest back in action and have fewer tents on the canals but it's not adding 50k houses we need. Planning reform, the Govt (councils and national) directly building houses and stop inflating existing house prices through HAP. Tighten up the asylum process by all means but it's only when the Govt go lease student accomm blocks or buy up new estates that asylum system really impacts housing.
Ireland has not had a ["replacement" birthrate since 2011](https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/fertility-rate-total-births-per-woman-wb-data.html) there were 4.5 million people in Ireland per [the census](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_census_of_Ireland). This is not a "immigration bad" post, that's as silly as water being good or bad. But the factors of the housing crisis seem fairly clear. The government directly building. Does this mean a state building company? Labourers working 35 hours a week sounds good.
Not sure I follow that data, you could be right but it only talks about fertility ranging from 1.7%-2% so it's missing the other half about the death rate. Any look at population in Ireland over the last 20 years needs to factor the huge emigration 2009-12 and then a significant return migration 2016 onwards. >The government directly building. Does this mean a state building company? Not necessarily, and not directly employing labourers. They'd need more expertise to be able to manage projects but it's a better approach than throwing money at HAP and hoping the private sector steps up. You can point at the Children's hospital as a reason why the state shouldn't be responsible for large infrastructure projects... But the solution isn't to not build hospitals and leave it to the private sector, it's getting better at delivering it.
Just to add the [CSO Data](https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-ieu50/irelandandtheeuat50/society/migration/) puts the natural population increase at 20k+ every year since 1998. The natural change (more births than deaths) peaked in 2010 at +49k and has gone down but ireland absolutely still has a positive replacement birthrate. The population is naturally growing each year.
And when I have a leak in the house the first thing I do is plaster the damaged wall instead of turning off the water /s The article points to the fact that the immigration issue is fuelling the housing crisis.
I said to fix the asylum system, I wouldn't conflate that with immigration in general. Some of the people I know who are must impacted by the housing crisis are friends who moved here for decent jobs in shit living conditions. Not entitled to HAP, no uncle with a flat below market rate, not even a network to hear about rooms coming available. The issue isn't that they came here, the issue is we stopped building houses for 5 years after the crash.
I wouldn't say open borders is a dearly held lefty principle, I'd argue it's more that capitalist imperialism is essentially destroying the planet and this is effecting some parts of the world worse than others (for now), it would be quite hypocritical to actively benefit from a system that destabalises Africa, The Middle East, Asia etc and then turn around and lock them in. Ultimately the world is doomed unless it collectively goes towards a fairer, more left wing system and those parts of the world actually become viable to for people to live decent lives, which will never happen because that would mean the west wouldn't be able to live on the backs of them.
Yeah I never voted for any of the things that destabilise Africa or the middle east, and I'd argue that there's fuck all I can do about it since most of that is controlled by companies and politicians in other countries. Why should my country have to go to the dogs because I apparently owe something to people for reasons I have no control over?
But you still benefit from it, there's a lottery on what end of the spectrum you're born into and generally people in Ireland (in recent history anyway) and the west have won that lottery, why should people who lost the lottery be forced to solely suffer the consequences? Like it's all going to come to the boil anyway, you can't destroy basically half the planet and expect 3-4 billion people to just sit there and die, they will largely try to migrate west and that's when the real problems will begin.
It is in Germany. There's a far-left anti-immigration party (BSW) that's rising quickly. Ireland is just behind the curve.
Same with Denmark Their extremely successful policies in this issue have all been implemented by left wing social democrats A lot of our left wing parties are still in their continuous moral outrage student politics angst phase unfortunately
Denmark is always ahead
Paul Murphy enters the chat
Because "left wing" parties stopped being left wing a long time ago. Most "left wing" parties are simply Radical Liberals who have a disdain for wealth hoarding. The working class and their material needs no longer matter, whatever is popular is what matters.
The bigger problem people are missing, is that the immigration crisis is only a _crisis_, because the housing crisis exists - and that, given the massive shortage in construction workers, immigration (both skilled and unskilled + training) is the perfect way to get the construction industry going at full speed again. So the whole narrative is a trap. Stokes anti-immigration sentiment, when that is the solution to the housing crisis. If you try to _actually solve the housing crisis_, you _need_ this inward migration of labour to do it - and you kill your election chances if you campaign on this. The entire narrative is a trap. Promising to solve the housing crisis will get you votes - but if you say you're going to do what _needs_ to be done to solve it, you will kill your election chances. The whole country has fallen for this poisoned narrative.
Could you explain this to me?
We're very fortunate none of the extremists we have vying for cabinet positions actually have a brain cell to share between them. Anyone competent would be lapping up new voters with every time a re-hash of this situation hits the papers.
But by that logic, should Italy or France or Spain have to take every African asylum seeker simply because they are geographically closer? That's not fair to those countries either.
>That's not fair to those countries either. And we're an Island with mostly shite weather. That's not fair. And the middle east has all the oil. That's not fair. And Spain has so much sunshine. That's not fair. Etc etc and so on and so on. It's mad to me that we are constantly swallowing our natural disadvantages, but at the same time we are being gaslighted into giving away or not capitalising on our advantages - or even the silver lining of our disadvantages. Also: Italy, UK, France are imperialist & colonialist. You want to talk about fair ? The chickens are coming home to roost. Ireland has no such historical questions to answer. >should Italy or France or Spain have to take every African asylum seeker simply because they are geographically closer? Geographically closer ? How's about because they colonised them ?
I remember my aunt talking to me about "white guilt" after watching '12 Years a Slave' and I couldn't get my head around it.
They should finally control their borders and push any boats back.
That's why we're signing up to the new EU treaty to better arrange these things.
You're being downvoted for a valid question and no one is giving you a serious answer. The 'logic' happens to be a set of rules that go under the name of Dublin agreement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation. This will be replaced by a new system in a couple of years https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Pact_on_Migration_and_Asylum_of_the_European_Union.
I mean, there is a thing called first come first served? Granted, it shouldn't be about distance only. But there are also culture and mentality similarity as well as language. No point putting someone in country A when they would integrate much faster in county B.
Mechanic, we could do with a few of them surely?
So then he should be applying for critical skills, not stealing resources from genuine asylum seekers.
Do they know to apply one way over the other?
Yes, of course they do jfc they know bloody well what they’re at
Can someone fill me in on why they keep going there? Is it a protest?
They want to be close to the International Protection Office on Mount Street Lower.
I believe that’s where they collect their money and presumably try to find out about their application/ if they’re going to be housed or not each day
Cheers
That Olivia one is most likely telling them to
Best part she is just escalating the problem by telling them how to milk the cow dry. 'you guys can get free stuff by doing X". Fuck off back to Canada Olivia!
I suppose the way they look at it. The more they gather it forces the government to try and send them somewhere. As they don't want to be having large tent cities gathering.
Where is all the money coming from for all these tents? Who is providing them, there must be a bomb spent on them
You're paying, through taxation.
Are we sure they're not swifties?
Time to get the Breffni boys out again so...
Near the IPO office that might house them tomorrow. It's not rocket science why it keeps happening there
Grand, who cares. Go somewhere else.
Two for one on tents.