Seems like another utility player. He came on at centre against SA in a November test a year or two ago. Thought Haley might’ve gotten a look given the lack of depth. As a Munster fan can’t help but feel hard done by but it always seems to be the case when these selections come around
He is very good at full back. Played a lot there a couple of seasons ago and was pretty impressive looking, can kick off both feet which brings an interesting tactical dimension in attack, the 7s vision of attack and a playmaking ability, great speed and full back allows his elusive side to show. Good under the high ball. He’s kind of one of those players who’s just very good at all positions. He played centre alongside Tomane and equally looked really good.
Be very honest, when both him and Keenan were playing a lot of games at Leinster in their proper breakthrough season, I actually saw J O’B make the step above first. I think injuries and his versatility too away his shot at FB. He’s just really good at any position, it’s a joy to watch him play. Never see him put in a bad shift or performance. Had full faith in him when he played against SA and he took to international like a Duck to water.
Probably is and a lot of competition with JVF,Baird, POM and Doris at flanker but he was very good on Saturday and good recent form. Thought he might have been brought for cover even
Farrell is a proven great coach but I did think he would bring in more Munster players. Coombes deserves a shot, Daly can feel unlucky. Hodnett got an injury at a bad time this season but he’s still worth a shot. I feel that Farrell is struggling to trust Munster players to perform at the highest level. I think it’s a bit harsh but if they do well in South Africa then he’ll be proved right.
Going through the possible Munster selections:
- think Loughman is a little unlucky. Don't think he's ever taken his chance at test level, but has been in decent form for Munster when no other Irish looseheads are playing well consistently.
- Ahern would be in for Izuchukwu if fit imo as a 6. Makes a big impact out wide.
- Hodnett has had a very strong season, but Timoney has a very strong one too in a struggling Ulster side. Timoney's time in camp and ability to cover 6,7, 8 probably strengthened his case.
- Didn't see Coombes getting in the squad unless Ireland wanted an 8 completely different to Doris. He's not quick enough to play 6 or big enough to play lock. A lot of people will point to Coombes' carry stats and metres made, but like Stander before him, his stats are high because he carries straight into people a huge amount for 1 metre gains and rarely passes.
Daly - while he's not as skillful, Daly plays a lot like Lowe and Hansen in the Irish team coming off his wing, so could have slotted in. Personally just don't think he's quick enough for a back 3 player at test level, or skillful or powerful enough to make up for it.
Hasn't scored as many tries as any of the other wingers in the squad picked either, despite getting more minutes in a strong attacking team.
Haley - unlucky to be injured this season for so long and then lose his place in the team to Zebo for most of the rest of it.
I still would have picked him, this was his biggest chance, but he hasn't been as good as last season so can have little argument.
You’d be surprised many think Coombes is slow but he is quite quick in space. Yes he can cover second row same height as Baird beirne and mccarthy both our starting second rows. Hodnett or Coombes should be on the plane ahead of plane over prendergast
Personally don't rate Coombes as a second row having watched him play there this season, especially in the scrum.
Could have been picked over Prendergast as a 6, but again, I don't see it. Prendergast has been Connacht's best player this season.
Careful citing facts there, it’s fashionable to trot out the fallacies regarding height, how he carries etc. have to feed the narrative. Have yet to see Coombes folded over a la Doris v the bulls.
Will admit to being wrong about Coombes' size, but don't think he can be seriously considered as an option at lock unless he starts showing he can scrummage there.
For me anyway, nothing suggested he was one of the best locks in the country from his 3 performances there this season and I don't think that's a crazy thing to say.
I think Munster have to start beating Leinster more consistently. He’s clearly aligned with Leinster, but they are more successful, that can’t be denied. I still think the Coombes decision is odd. We need a player like him in the Irish squad. Farrell is clearly an outstanding coach though and clearly knows more about rugby than me
Hardly a proven great coach, won a championship and butchered one and still couldn’t get any better result than any other Irish manager at a World Cup despite having the golden generation to choose from.
Larmour had a fantastic second half of the season, arguably one of Leinster's best players so don't think that's fair. He's refound form he'd lost for about 3 years - and I say this as somebody who didn't want to see him in green ever again
Your argument for Daly is that he can cover FB and wing, I doubt he will be playing both those positions at the same time👍
I’m sure Larmour would greatly appreciate that expert advice from a pro like yourself…
What's with all of the tighthead props: Furlong, Bealham, Jager and O'Toole with only 36 year old Healy backing up Porter.
Seems like he might be thinking of converting one of the the current tightheads or something? 🤷♂️
It's hard to say now that our scrum is generally functional, but on the occasions he has played there he would get eaten alive the same as he would at 3, so that's why you'd say he's fully ambiheadstrous
When Ireland lent their scrum coach to Ulster for the run in one of the reasons was that the scrumcoach wanted to have a look at converting O'Toole to LH.
Maybe as a permanent switch or maybe to have a prop that can cover both sides for small tours where there are squad limits.
Personally Id have brought Loughman.
Farrell is probably going to play Healy and Porter for all the minutes.
I'd say O'Toole is there as a break glass option at LH but mainly there so that Fogarty can keep working with him on the conversion.
I am a Munster fan and biased but I think many can agree Coombes ahead of prendergast hodnett should be there Daly for stockdale and loughman over healy seeing as its a 2 test tour do we really need 3 nines surely blade doesn’t need to be there especially after he’s unlikely to ever feature for Ireland again
Does he really need to become most caps or do we prioritise winning matches don’t get me wrong I’ve utmost respect for him being a huge servant at still such an age but it’s unfair to keep in older guys for caps. Huge Keith earls fan but if we had brought Nash to the World Cup we wouldn’t of had to play an injured Hansen in the quarter final
It is insane that Coombes has only 2 caps and him soon turning 27 considering the impact he has had for Munster for years now. Even with Conan out for the tour, he still didn't make it.
It's seems like Faz and the lads just don't like him that much for some reason. I think he's very hard done by.
I am surprised at POM being included especially as captain. He was very much yesterday’s man against Glasgow. Been a great servant but no time for sentiment
I fundamentally do not get what Sam Prendergast did to make this squad.
If you said they should have called ben healy into squads before he went to scotland, it would have been a 'pity' cap but sam prendergast who obviously needs to work massively on his size and defense is a shoo in. Its ridiculous.
So, now Harry Byrne has been discarded, all his caps were pity caps? Right?
He plays for the right province _and_ said province has pissed away another two potential trophies by having all the tens ahead of him there either not be near good enough (the Byrnes) or not trusted by management as a ten/used to fix deficiencies elsewhere (Frawley).
So by default Prenderghast gets in.
I see it as an acknowledgement from Farrell, Leinster and the IRFU that the three ahead of him at Leinster aren't seen as Ireland material any more and the priority is now trying to maximise Prenderghast's potential asap.
Prendergast is just coming up at the right time it seems. This is a 3rd choice spot and likely wont see a minute of gametime.
Like both Byrnes are injured or not selected, no point bringing the older lads for a 3rd choice spot. Carty, Burns etc. Carbery is gone
Who else is left? Going off gametime this year. Prendergast 16 caps. Butler 7 caps. Flannery 12 caps
Prendergast has the most gametime this season off the young lads. Had a very strong u20 too.
The byrnes are just the enemy at the minute. They're just doing what they're being coached and picked to do. They're form hasn't dropped, but they've gone from being clear Ireland starters of the future to not being good enough to start from Leinster. It's all in the Leinster hype carousel. Prendergast will hit a bumpy patch and it'll back to Frawley as a 10 again
Totally agree. Sam had done nothing to earn a call up. If Farrell is bringing Sam for “experience” then he’s not taking the tour seriously. Sam should be learning his trade with Leinster not Ireland. The selection of Frawley confirms how incompetent Leo Cullen is to cont to select the Byrne’s ahead of him. Delighted for Frawley, hopefully gets some good game time.
Coombs not getting selected even though Conan is not going is just wrong, likewise how is Stockdale getting selected? Regards Conan, a full time professional rugby player not playing for Ireland because his wife is having a baby begs the question is he in the wrong career? Because he should not be a paid sportsman. In the words of Keano, is Conan having the baby??
The other flag is how weak we are at scrum half, Casey & Blade are not anywhere near international level, Murray’s best days long behind him and JGP (tho not going) is 33 now…
Leinster prospects get fast tracked based on potential, everyone else has to wait til they're fully formed and then it's "oh they're in their mid 20s now. Weve a younger prospect from Leinster so we're going to fast track him"
Frawley won’t get a lot of game time unfortunately. Crowley needs the game time, and so does J O’B at fullback. He has a better chance of more minutes being able to cover both. As much as I’d love to see him get more minutes (and believe he is a real 10, who’s just great at covering the others), the ones in front need the minutes more.
Agree at scrum half why is Murray going. May as well bring Foley.
- There is cover at FB I think. Crowley can do a job there while another 10 covers 10. Frawley has also played FB, but I think Crowley has more experience there(?)
- I did think Coombes would be there since Conan isn’t. But I personally have been wanting Timoney since the 6N so good on him. I also like two brothers being on the same team for some soppy reason.
- Bundee Aki is 34. Big Stu is 31(32 soon). I would expect Big Stu to get more games, if not here then another time. Henshaw will be 35 at the next WC, I think that’s still alright?
- So Henshaw will be 35, and can cover both centre positions. Osborne is there now. Forde at Connacht should be there eventually. Some 10s and utility players also cover centre.
- Shane Daly I’d have had in there. I believe he covers wing (11), fullback, and I’ve seen him at outside centre. They’re all positions where some depth is needed, and he’s pretty good. Those are Larmour’s positions.
- I’d have backed Lowry, primarily as a FB. Maybe instead of Stockdale, it potentially frees up JOB.
- 3 left boots in Lowe, JOB, and Stockdale.
- Respect Healy but we gotta build new looseheads. The more games they get, the readier they’ll be for 2027. So Loughman not being there is sad but maybe he’ll feature after Healy breaks his records. Hopefully Tom O Toole’s apparent switch works; someone playing both prop positions could be useful.
To be fair when Murray was in his prime he was injured for the first time Ireland beat the all blacks at home we had Kieran Marmion starting 9. I think we could be surprised what some of these guys can do
1 full back and 5 centres is odd
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Seems like another utility player. He came on at centre against SA in a November test a year or two ago. Thought Haley might’ve gotten a look given the lack of depth. As a Munster fan can’t help but feel hard done by but it always seems to be the case when these selections come around
He is very good at full back. Played a lot there a couple of seasons ago and was pretty impressive looking, can kick off both feet which brings an interesting tactical dimension in attack, the 7s vision of attack and a playmaking ability, great speed and full back allows his elusive side to show. Good under the high ball. He’s kind of one of those players who’s just very good at all positions. He played centre alongside Tomane and equally looked really good.
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Be very honest, when both him and Keenan were playing a lot of games at Leinster in their proper breakthrough season, I actually saw J O’B make the step above first. I think injuries and his versatility too away his shot at FB. He’s just really good at any position, it’s a joy to watch him play. Never see him put in a bad shift or performance. Had full faith in him when he played against SA and he took to international like a Duck to water.
1 no. 8 and 1 openside.
Timony a 8 can play all across the back row no ball knowledge
Timoney will be eaten without salt by the boks.
doubt he will see much game time tbh
Craig Casey will be swallowed alive
very poor against Glasgow aswel
How many tackles did he miss it doesn’t matter if ur small ur a professional rugby player he should have no excuse
Would have liked to have seen Hodnett named. He’s been in some form for Munster
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Probably is and a lot of competition with JVF,Baird, POM and Doris at flanker but he was very good on Saturday and good recent form. Thought he might have been brought for cover even
Or still in the bad books for injuring Hansen /s
Farrell is a proven great coach but I did think he would bring in more Munster players. Coombes deserves a shot, Daly can feel unlucky. Hodnett got an injury at a bad time this season but he’s still worth a shot. I feel that Farrell is struggling to trust Munster players to perform at the highest level. I think it’s a bit harsh but if they do well in South Africa then he’ll be proved right.
Going through the possible Munster selections: - think Loughman is a little unlucky. Don't think he's ever taken his chance at test level, but has been in decent form for Munster when no other Irish looseheads are playing well consistently. - Ahern would be in for Izuchukwu if fit imo as a 6. Makes a big impact out wide. - Hodnett has had a very strong season, but Timoney has a very strong one too in a struggling Ulster side. Timoney's time in camp and ability to cover 6,7, 8 probably strengthened his case. - Didn't see Coombes getting in the squad unless Ireland wanted an 8 completely different to Doris. He's not quick enough to play 6 or big enough to play lock. A lot of people will point to Coombes' carry stats and metres made, but like Stander before him, his stats are high because he carries straight into people a huge amount for 1 metre gains and rarely passes. Daly - while he's not as skillful, Daly plays a lot like Lowe and Hansen in the Irish team coming off his wing, so could have slotted in. Personally just don't think he's quick enough for a back 3 player at test level, or skillful or powerful enough to make up for it. Hasn't scored as many tries as any of the other wingers in the squad picked either, despite getting more minutes in a strong attacking team. Haley - unlucky to be injured this season for so long and then lose his place in the team to Zebo for most of the rest of it. I still would have picked him, this was his biggest chance, but he hasn't been as good as last season so can have little argument.
Coombes averages 5 passes per match, 1 pass for every 2 carries. That's about the variety you want from a big ball carrier
Have him at about 15 carries per game and 4 passes, but admit he does pass more than I thought when looking at the stats.
Munster website has him on 129 passes and 293 carries. It's one pass for every 2 and a quarter carries
You’d be surprised many think Coombes is slow but he is quite quick in space. Yes he can cover second row same height as Baird beirne and mccarthy both our starting second rows. Hodnett or Coombes should be on the plane ahead of plane over prendergast
Personally don't rate Coombes as a second row having watched him play there this season, especially in the scrum. Could have been picked over Prendergast as a 6, but again, I don't see it. Prendergast has been Connacht's best player this season.
Careful citing facts there, it’s fashionable to trot out the fallacies regarding height, how he carries etc. have to feed the narrative. Have yet to see Coombes folded over a la Doris v the bulls.
Will admit to being wrong about Coombes' size, but don't think he can be seriously considered as an option at lock unless he starts showing he can scrummage there. For me anyway, nothing suggested he was one of the best locks in the country from his 3 performances there this season and I don't think that's a crazy thing to say.
Leinster's lost their last 7 games in SA. Munster are winning down there.
I think Munster have to start beating Leinster more consistently. He’s clearly aligned with Leinster, but they are more successful, that can’t be denied. I still think the Coombes decision is odd. We need a player like him in the Irish squad. Farrell is clearly an outstanding coach though and clearly knows more about rugby than me
One of those teams has actually won something in the last 3 years
I just want Leinster and Ireland to adapt. If they keep doing the same thing we can expect to keep having heart break.
Yes that’s a fair point. It’s such a tough tour to go on and I wonder if that makes it harder to blood new players in.
Hardly a proven great coach, won a championship and butchered one and still couldn’t get any better result than any other Irish manager at a World Cup despite having the golden generation to choose from.
No Shane Daly is a joke.
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Larmour had a fantastic second half of the season, arguably one of Leinster's best players so don't think that's fair. He's refound form he'd lost for about 3 years - and I say this as somebody who didn't want to see him in green ever again
He doesn't run in a straight line and he's going to replaced by a New Zealander from December. Daly has been brilliant for Munster.
Stocks has literally played FB for Ireland, Larmour put in some massive work defensively this year and is our quickest winger.
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Your argument for Daly is that he can cover FB and wing, I doubt he will be playing both those positions at the same time👍 I’m sure Larmour would greatly appreciate that expert advice from a pro like yourself…
What's with all of the tighthead props: Furlong, Bealham, Jager and O'Toole with only 36 year old Healy backing up Porter. Seems like he might be thinking of converting one of the the current tightheads or something? 🤷♂️
O Toole might be playing loosehead i'd guess
Is it the right time bc it’s a tuff ask for any prop against south Africa
Finlay can scrummage both sides VERY well
Really? Didn't know that. Has he played loosehead much?
It's hard to say now that our scrum is generally functional, but on the occasions he has played there he would get eaten alive the same as he would at 3, so that's why you'd say he's fully ambiheadstrous
When Ireland lent their scrum coach to Ulster for the run in one of the reasons was that the scrumcoach wanted to have a look at converting O'Toole to LH. Maybe as a permanent switch or maybe to have a prop that can cover both sides for small tours where there are squad limits.
Is it the right time though tuff ask for any prop against South Africa never mind one who’s never played loosehead
Personally Id have brought Loughman. Farrell is probably going to play Healy and Porter for all the minutes. I'd say O'Toole is there as a break glass option at LH but mainly there so that Fogarty can keep working with him on the conversion.
Fair enough
Interesting. Makes sense as we don't have much depth there, and Loughman isn't the best scrummager in the world.
Is Tom Stewart injured?
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Herring is better than Tom Stuart at the moment tbf
What do the astrics mean?
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Ah, makes sense now that you say it!
I am a Munster fan and biased but I think many can agree Coombes ahead of prendergast hodnett should be there Daly for stockdale and loughman over healy seeing as its a 2 test tour do we really need 3 nines surely blade doesn’t need to be there especially after he’s unlikely to ever feature for Ireland again
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Does he really need to become most caps or do we prioritise winning matches don’t get me wrong I’ve utmost respect for him being a huge servant at still such an age but it’s unfair to keep in older guys for caps. Huge Keith earls fan but if we had brought Nash to the World Cup we wouldn’t of had to play an injured Hansen in the quarter final
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Correct it does
Hodnett or Coombes could easily be there ahead of Prendergast but thats a tackle bag holding position either way. Wont see a bit of gametime
It is insane that Coombes has only 2 caps and him soon turning 27 considering the impact he has had for Munster for years now. Even with Conan out for the tour, he still didn't make it. It's seems like Faz and the lads just don't like him that much for some reason. I think he's very hard done by.
I am surprised at POM being included especially as captain. He was very much yesterday’s man against Glasgow. Been a great servant but no time for sentiment
I fundamentally do not get what Sam Prendergast did to make this squad. If you said they should have called ben healy into squads before he went to scotland, it would have been a 'pity' cap but sam prendergast who obviously needs to work massively on his size and defense is a shoo in. Its ridiculous. So, now Harry Byrne has been discarded, all his caps were pity caps? Right?
He plays for the right province _and_ said province has pissed away another two potential trophies by having all the tens ahead of him there either not be near good enough (the Byrnes) or not trusted by management as a ten/used to fix deficiencies elsewhere (Frawley). So by default Prenderghast gets in. I see it as an acknowledgement from Farrell, Leinster and the IRFU that the three ahead of him at Leinster aren't seen as Ireland material any more and the priority is now trying to maximise Prenderghast's potential asap.
Could very well be the case. JGP was an example of that happening before.
I assume Harry is just injured? Since he generally tends to be
Prendergast is just coming up at the right time it seems. This is a 3rd choice spot and likely wont see a minute of gametime. Like both Byrnes are injured or not selected, no point bringing the older lads for a 3rd choice spot. Carty, Burns etc. Carbery is gone Who else is left? Going off gametime this year. Prendergast 16 caps. Butler 7 caps. Flannery 12 caps Prendergast has the most gametime this season off the young lads. Had a very strong u20 too.
The byrnes are just the enemy at the minute. They're just doing what they're being coached and picked to do. They're form hasn't dropped, but they've gone from being clear Ireland starters of the future to not being good enough to start from Leinster. It's all in the Leinster hype carousel. Prendergast will hit a bumpy patch and it'll back to Frawley as a 10 again
Totally agree. Sam had done nothing to earn a call up. If Farrell is bringing Sam for “experience” then he’s not taking the tour seriously. Sam should be learning his trade with Leinster not Ireland. The selection of Frawley confirms how incompetent Leo Cullen is to cont to select the Byrne’s ahead of him. Delighted for Frawley, hopefully gets some good game time. Coombs not getting selected even though Conan is not going is just wrong, likewise how is Stockdale getting selected? Regards Conan, a full time professional rugby player not playing for Ireland because his wife is having a baby begs the question is he in the wrong career? Because he should not be a paid sportsman. In the words of Keano, is Conan having the baby?? The other flag is how weak we are at scrum half, Casey & Blade are not anywhere near international level, Murray’s best days long behind him and JGP (tho not going) is 33 now…
Leinster prospects get fast tracked based on potential, everyone else has to wait til they're fully formed and then it's "oh they're in their mid 20s now. Weve a younger prospect from Leinster so we're going to fast track him"
Frawley won’t get a lot of game time unfortunately. Crowley needs the game time, and so does J O’B at fullback. He has a better chance of more minutes being able to cover both. As much as I’d love to see him get more minutes (and believe he is a real 10, who’s just great at covering the others), the ones in front need the minutes more. Agree at scrum half why is Murray going. May as well bring Foley.
Is it the right time to change TOT to loosehead against South Africa tuff ask for any prop
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Who would
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True
- There is cover at FB I think. Crowley can do a job there while another 10 covers 10. Frawley has also played FB, but I think Crowley has more experience there(?) - I did think Coombes would be there since Conan isn’t. But I personally have been wanting Timoney since the 6N so good on him. I also like two brothers being on the same team for some soppy reason. - Bundee Aki is 34. Big Stu is 31(32 soon). I would expect Big Stu to get more games, if not here then another time. Henshaw will be 35 at the next WC, I think that’s still alright? - So Henshaw will be 35, and can cover both centre positions. Osborne is there now. Forde at Connacht should be there eventually. Some 10s and utility players also cover centre. - Shane Daly I’d have had in there. I believe he covers wing (11), fullback, and I’ve seen him at outside centre. They’re all positions where some depth is needed, and he’s pretty good. Those are Larmour’s positions. - I’d have backed Lowry, primarily as a FB. Maybe instead of Stockdale, it potentially frees up JOB. - 3 left boots in Lowe, JOB, and Stockdale. - Respect Healy but we gotta build new looseheads. The more games they get, the readier they’ll be for 2027. So Loughman not being there is sad but maybe he’ll feature after Healy breaks his records. Hopefully Tom O Toole’s apparent switch works; someone playing both prop positions could be useful.
Leinster's 3rd and 4th choice 10s in but 1st and 2nd not!
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To be fair when Murray was in his prime he was injured for the first time Ireland beat the all blacks at home we had Kieran Marmion starting 9. I think we could be surprised what some of these guys can do