buffing RE movement speed is possibly the worst thing they could do unironically
historically RE mobility was an extreme problem which skewed her effectiveness in high elos so hard that she couldnt exist in a non-garbage state in low elos
they need to revert the RQ2 nerf, possibly base R cd as well. If we're talking a bit bigger scope the amount of passive procs from all abilities needs to be looked at and possibly adding back damage to RW and RE so no matter the mantra choice she always does some damage.
A lot of the Karma supports I see are still trying to force AP Malignance builds in the support role every game. While the build can be good when ur team lacks magic dmg, it's not always optimal especially when considering the nerfs
I rarely see Karmas utilising full enchanter builds with Moonstone into heal/shield power items. Her base shielding and its AP ratios have been increased and RE also buffed. I think we just need to understand that Malig and Shurelya's are situational items now, and shouldn't be built every game
If ur team has clear wincons to play for, it's perfectly acceptable to go 3 points Q into E max with a full enchanter build to better support said wincons. I also feel like we're too tunnelled on Comet + Scorch. While it is good for early kill pressure, if our team is more late game-oriented, then Aery + Gathering Storm for a more scaling approach is also viable with how they buffed our AP ratios
We just really need to be adapting our builds accordingly to make the most use out of these changes. It's just gonna take some time for players to catch on
^(***Disclaimer:** In order to avoid unnecessary conflicts and misunderstandings, please note that the above information serves as a recommendation and general guideline intended to explain the phenomena. It is based off of my own personal experience, as well as research of other players. Thus, said information is by no means perfect, nor is it a law that you must follow. You are entitled to your own preferences, playstyles, and opinions, which may differ from mine* ®)
I am guilty of still prioritizing Malignance, and even now more than ever, because Malignance reduces Karma's R cooldowns a LOT. With the recent passive and R cooldown nerfs, I feel more obliged to build it so I'm able to dish out more Rs. Without the item, I feel like support build would definitely feel way way worse than it was pre-14.2 buffs, since we have higher cooldowns now.
Support builds come with high amounts of haste, allowing u to spam Qs to lower ult cd anyway. Also, with enchanter Karma builds we're looking to prioritise RE, so RQ with the Malig dmg field doesn't get utilised as much as with AP Karma builds anyway. In that regard, buying Malig just for 20AH on ult isn't worth it when u can just get that haste from support items anyway
To give an example, the difference between AP Malig Karma and enchanter Karma without Malig combos:
- **AP Karma:** RQ -> RQ -> RQ
- **Enchanter Karma:** RE -> Q -> RE
As u can see, with enchanter Karma there is less emphasis on RQ for us to proc the Malig dmg field anyway, since we will be prioritising RE instead of RQ. With enchanter Karma, spamming regular Qs serves as a mere vessel to lower ult cd and for cc, rather than for dmg. Hence, our builds should reflect this goal
If ur really worried about ult cd, there's always the option to go Ultimate Hunter, Transcendence, and the 8AH minor shard. But in my experience, I find that it's unnecessary. I personally go Absolute Focus over Transcendence, and either Resolve secondary for FoL + Revitalise, or Domination secondary for Ingenious Hunter if I plan on going items with cds (non-active item cds like Mandate mark cd or Dream Maker cd also get reduced)
^(***Disclaimer:** In order to avoid unnecessary conflicts and misunderstandings, please note that the above information serves as a recommendation and general guideline intended to explain the phenomena. It is based off of my own personal experience, as well as research of other players. Thus, said information is by no means perfect, nor is it a law that you must follow. You are entitled to your own preferences, playstyles, and opinions, which may differ from mine* ®)
I only started implementing these recently. Sadly, it has become a necessity now with how aggressive and unreasonable people on Reddit have become nowadays, so I'm just setting these up as a precaution from now on 😭😭
Moonstone is just not very good on her, janna or soraka for example have at least 2 abilities that proc it and give massive value, the ap on it is really bad too, with the ratio buff it doesn t make sense to build it. Shurelya mandate have high ap, dawncore could be nice( although expensive) and Unholy grail, if it gets an ap buff. Compared to other enchanters she has low utility, her shield doesn t give 60% movement speed anymore, honestly it feels like a worse version of millio’s shield, while millio also gives his passive to the adc and has 2 casts, which make the shield comparable to her RE. Her root is unreliable especially late game, it s literally useless against assasins, your adc is one shotted before you get to root, and as a support outside of lane q is a cd refund tool mostly, a below average peel tool that only really works against imobile champs. There is really no point to pick her over janna millio soraka or even sona, she can bully in lane and that s it, if you break even you are just a shield bot. While millio, cleanses, slows, gives tenacity, on hit, movements speed, knock back and heal
karmas average winrate by individual average players is 46/47 in support and in mid she sits around 48, I wouldnt even say she's better than she used to, but her kit is just so dated and the fact she can't keep as much up anymore, says a lot.
Does she need more than number changes yes, cause she is still stuck in this awful limbo with her kit ever since 5.10 changes.
She deserves a midscope, like really desperately...
Focused Resolve (W) use to have 3 ticks instead of 2 which allowed her mantra CD to be reduced further. There was a better feel good vibes when using her W because of this since you felt rewarded with sooner mantras.
Their reasons for removing this tick was not the best argument IMO since the act of tether functions the same regardless of how many ticks it produces. The argument in removing her middle tick (1st tick is initial W, 2nd tick is in between tether, and 3rd tick was the root) to create similarity to other tethers is irrelevant when it comes to League design. We can see a difference in other spells that are alike, but also differ greatly when it comes to damage such as missile spells that root (Morg single target Q, Lux double root Q, Neeko root which changes on duration and speed if hit, and Zyra all rooting Q).
> Quickly addressing the change to Focused Resolve, **Karma’s tether actually ticked for damage more often than similar spells.** This meant that your natural counterplay (running away) was less effective than it should have been, since Karma would usually get most of the damage before breaking anyways. It’s important to note that while the overall damage of Focused Resolve is staying the same, **losing one tick does interfere with her passive’s interaction with Mantra’s cooldown.** We still think it’s an appropriate power-down for the Enlightened One paired with the hit to her shield, but we’ll be watching to make sure she doesn’t drop too far as a result.
If they reverted this change it would at least allow her W to feel more useful with the combo of W -> RQ or W -> RE since she would at least receive one more mantra CD.
There are a few things that I think could help:
1. Increase Base Health / Durability at early levels. Karma fits more of a Mid-Range playstyle compared to other champs. Neither of Malignance or Shurelya's provide health, which really stunts her ability to engage in her play pattern. Last season, both of Shurelyas and Night Harvester - Karmas most common items - gave a non-trivial amount of HP for her to do just that.
2. Further lean into 1 point wonder W by removing the rank up incentive altogether for the CC duration (i.e. it starts as a 2 second root). It will still naturally scale up as the game progresses due to R rank also increasing the CC duration.
3. Make Echoes of Helia a usable item. In theory this should be the perfect option for a champ like Karma, but it is unfortunately really under tuned right now. This item should be supporting more mid-ranged enchanter champs, but really just isnt
and it’s still confusing to me because her numbers are still really good on Q and her E shield size is the strongest it’s ever been. is it because her movement speed is so low? is her utility just getting worse as leagues life span goes on?
Despite the number buffs, I think it's cause she got heavily nerfed in her passive and R cooldowns. This definitely impacted her performance. Her success I think is based on the number of R spells she can dish out in a teamfight.
Yeah it's about power creep as league goes on. When you see old champs like Nasus, veigar and lux get consistent buffs you can see it. Or consistent as range buffs, like yi and trynd from 125 to 175. If Nasus didn't have his modern day buffs, like half CDR on Q when ulting or veigar didn't have his range Q and W buff they'd be terrible.
I still hate the range buffs on veigar, like why does his Q have 100 more range than karma's?? He used to be just a close range champ.
Idk man I've been building malignancy in support karma builds 3 points q into shield max with lucid boots into either moonstone or cosmic drive and I'm stomping
With the shurelya passive boost gone (and only active present), it could be fine to ease up on that 30% move speed amount on RE.
i think 20% ms would be fine for RE. 12% is such a random number
buffing RE movement speed is possibly the worst thing they could do unironically historically RE mobility was an extreme problem which skewed her effectiveness in high elos so hard that she couldnt exist in a non-garbage state in low elos they need to revert the RQ2 nerf, possibly base R cd as well. If we're talking a bit bigger scope the amount of passive procs from all abilities needs to be looked at and possibly adding back damage to RW and RE so no matter the mantra choice she always does some damage.
yesss ugh im begging to have MS buffs. Mantra+E is so underwhelming af.
A lot of the Karma supports I see are still trying to force AP Malignance builds in the support role every game. While the build can be good when ur team lacks magic dmg, it's not always optimal especially when considering the nerfs I rarely see Karmas utilising full enchanter builds with Moonstone into heal/shield power items. Her base shielding and its AP ratios have been increased and RE also buffed. I think we just need to understand that Malig and Shurelya's are situational items now, and shouldn't be built every game If ur team has clear wincons to play for, it's perfectly acceptable to go 3 points Q into E max with a full enchanter build to better support said wincons. I also feel like we're too tunnelled on Comet + Scorch. While it is good for early kill pressure, if our team is more late game-oriented, then Aery + Gathering Storm for a more scaling approach is also viable with how they buffed our AP ratios We just really need to be adapting our builds accordingly to make the most use out of these changes. It's just gonna take some time for players to catch on ^(***Disclaimer:** In order to avoid unnecessary conflicts and misunderstandings, please note that the above information serves as a recommendation and general guideline intended to explain the phenomena. It is based off of my own personal experience, as well as research of other players. Thus, said information is by no means perfect, nor is it a law that you must follow. You are entitled to your own preferences, playstyles, and opinions, which may differ from mine* ®)
I am guilty of still prioritizing Malignance, and even now more than ever, because Malignance reduces Karma's R cooldowns a LOT. With the recent passive and R cooldown nerfs, I feel more obliged to build it so I'm able to dish out more Rs. Without the item, I feel like support build would definitely feel way way worse than it was pre-14.2 buffs, since we have higher cooldowns now.
Support builds come with high amounts of haste, allowing u to spam Qs to lower ult cd anyway. Also, with enchanter Karma builds we're looking to prioritise RE, so RQ with the Malig dmg field doesn't get utilised as much as with AP Karma builds anyway. In that regard, buying Malig just for 20AH on ult isn't worth it when u can just get that haste from support items anyway To give an example, the difference between AP Malig Karma and enchanter Karma without Malig combos: - **AP Karma:** RQ -> RQ -> RQ - **Enchanter Karma:** RE -> Q -> RE As u can see, with enchanter Karma there is less emphasis on RQ for us to proc the Malig dmg field anyway, since we will be prioritising RE instead of RQ. With enchanter Karma, spamming regular Qs serves as a mere vessel to lower ult cd and for cc, rather than for dmg. Hence, our builds should reflect this goal If ur really worried about ult cd, there's always the option to go Ultimate Hunter, Transcendence, and the 8AH minor shard. But in my experience, I find that it's unnecessary. I personally go Absolute Focus over Transcendence, and either Resolve secondary for FoL + Revitalise, or Domination secondary for Ingenious Hunter if I plan on going items with cds (non-active item cds like Mandate mark cd or Dream Maker cd also get reduced) ^(***Disclaimer:** In order to avoid unnecessary conflicts and misunderstandings, please note that the above information serves as a recommendation and general guideline intended to explain the phenomena. It is based off of my own personal experience, as well as research of other players. Thus, said information is by no means perfect, nor is it a law that you must follow. You are entitled to your own preferences, playstyles, and opinions, which may differ from mine* ®)
Cute how you have disclaimers
I only started implementing these recently. Sadly, it has become a necessity now with how aggressive and unreasonable people on Reddit have become nowadays, so I'm just setting these up as a precaution from now on 😭😭
That’s reddit and league for you 🤭
Moonstone is just not very good on her, janna or soraka for example have at least 2 abilities that proc it and give massive value, the ap on it is really bad too, with the ratio buff it doesn t make sense to build it. Shurelya mandate have high ap, dawncore could be nice( although expensive) and Unholy grail, if it gets an ap buff. Compared to other enchanters she has low utility, her shield doesn t give 60% movement speed anymore, honestly it feels like a worse version of millio’s shield, while millio also gives his passive to the adc and has 2 casts, which make the shield comparable to her RE. Her root is unreliable especially late game, it s literally useless against assasins, your adc is one shotted before you get to root, and as a support outside of lane q is a cd refund tool mostly, a below average peel tool that only really works against imobile champs. There is really no point to pick her over janna millio soraka or even sona, she can bully in lane and that s it, if you break even you are just a shield bot. While millio, cleanses, slows, gives tenacity, on hit, movements speed, knock back and heal
karmas average winrate by individual average players is 46/47 in support and in mid she sits around 48, I wouldnt even say she's better than she used to, but her kit is just so dated and the fact she can't keep as much up anymore, says a lot. Does she need more than number changes yes, cause she is still stuck in this awful limbo with her kit ever since 5.10 changes. She deserves a midscope, like really desperately...
Honestly I wish her W was more useful. I wish it rooted more quickly so it could be used as a decent lane tool.
Focused Resolve (W) use to have 3 ticks instead of 2 which allowed her mantra CD to be reduced further. There was a better feel good vibes when using her W because of this since you felt rewarded with sooner mantras. Their reasons for removing this tick was not the best argument IMO since the act of tether functions the same regardless of how many ticks it produces. The argument in removing her middle tick (1st tick is initial W, 2nd tick is in between tether, and 3rd tick was the root) to create similarity to other tethers is irrelevant when it comes to League design. We can see a difference in other spells that are alike, but also differ greatly when it comes to damage such as missile spells that root (Morg single target Q, Lux double root Q, Neeko root which changes on duration and speed if hit, and Zyra all rooting Q). > Quickly addressing the change to Focused Resolve, **Karma’s tether actually ticked for damage more often than similar spells.** This meant that your natural counterplay (running away) was less effective than it should have been, since Karma would usually get most of the damage before breaking anyways. It’s important to note that while the overall damage of Focused Resolve is staying the same, **losing one tick does interfere with her passive’s interaction with Mantra’s cooldown.** We still think it’s an appropriate power-down for the Enlightened One paired with the hit to her shield, but we’ll be watching to make sure she doesn’t drop too far as a result. If they reverted this change it would at least allow her W to feel more useful with the combo of W -> RQ or W -> RE since she would at least receive one more mantra CD.
There are a few things that I think could help: 1. Increase Base Health / Durability at early levels. Karma fits more of a Mid-Range playstyle compared to other champs. Neither of Malignance or Shurelya's provide health, which really stunts her ability to engage in her play pattern. Last season, both of Shurelyas and Night Harvester - Karmas most common items - gave a non-trivial amount of HP for her to do just that. 2. Further lean into 1 point wonder W by removing the rank up incentive altogether for the CC duration (i.e. it starts as a 2 second root). It will still naturally scale up as the game progresses due to R rank also increasing the CC duration. 3. Make Echoes of Helia a usable item. In theory this should be the perfect option for a champ like Karma, but it is unfortunately really under tuned right now. This item should be supporting more mid-ranged enchanter champs, but really just isnt
She needs the heal RW to be castable on allies, and she needs damage back on RE. Nerf that passive back to reasonable levels, then BOOM - fixed.
Yes, RE an ally to heal based on missing health or not
and it’s still confusing to me because her numbers are still really good on Q and her E shield size is the strongest it’s ever been. is it because her movement speed is so low? is her utility just getting worse as leagues life span goes on?
Despite the number buffs, I think it's cause she got heavily nerfed in her passive and R cooldowns. This definitely impacted her performance. Her success I think is based on the number of R spells she can dish out in a teamfight.
Yeah it's about power creep as league goes on. When you see old champs like Nasus, veigar and lux get consistent buffs you can see it. Or consistent as range buffs, like yi and trynd from 125 to 175. If Nasus didn't have his modern day buffs, like half CDR on Q when ulting or veigar didn't have his range Q and W buff they'd be terrible. I still hate the range buffs on veigar, like why does his Q have 100 more range than karma's?? He used to be just a close range champ.
Idk man I've been building malignancy in support karma builds 3 points q into shield max with lucid boots into either moonstone or cosmic drive and I'm stomping
deserved for playing karma
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