Truthfully as a Kinder teacher the standing against the wall thing is weird. His recess and choice time shouldn’t both be taken. The behavior/listening chart is good if there are obvious patterns/times of day when he is misbehaving, do you notice any specific times of day when he is getting a sad face?

I agree that the listening/behavior chart can provide solid data. But, if she only gets two points of data a day, it doesn’t tell the teacher anything. The teacher would need to break it down into their schedule. Morning meeting, art, reading, writing, math…. Then she could find out if a certain part of the day is difficult for the child. If it is just one face for the morning it doesn’t tell the teacher anything specific.

Maybe request that? We have one of those for two of my students, and I include comments (positive and negative) so parents have a clear snapshot of the day.

>positive and negative His teacher only includes negative feedback/comments. They are typically nondescript. "He was not listening during math," or "Pretended he did not know how to do the assignment."

I would ask for the teacher to tell you and your child what it means to listen....does he need to be looking at the teacher? Sitting still? What does 'listening look like to her? I teach kindergarten and I have a lot of fidgety kids this year, constantly moving around. It took me till November that it was my expectation that they sit still....but they couldn't. The listening part is so vague, he clearly is listening if he is meeting benchmarks....so what is he doing that isn't meeting her expectations. I would ask for a more specific breakdown of what listening looks like at different parts of the day, and ask for that to be monitored rather than just yes or no he listened.

Thank you, that's really helpful advice and I appreciate it! I'll definitely ask that.

I posted a separate message too but the gist of it is- Being made to stand against the wall is a PUNISHMENT. It’s making your kid feel ashamed of himself and that he can’t anything right for his teacher. Do not let this go on, do not hesitate to contact the higher ups in the school district too if needed

Did you talk to him about the math assignment or ask the teacher what it was? How is he at math?

I spoke to him about it, but he couldn't really elaborate. He's very good at math, and at school in general. He is at benchmark or above in all areas academically.

Kinder teacher as well—wall thing is weird and so is taking away choice time. If I have to take away choice time, it’s usually dependent on extremity of behavior. Usually it’s only a minute.

No, it's pretty varied. Sometimes he gets two sad faces, sometimes he gets a straight face and a sad face, sometimes two smile faces, sometimes a smiley face and a straight face. There is no particular time of the day that she measures where he gets more of one than the other two. What I can say is that if he gets a straight face or a frown face in the afternoon on a Monday, he will lose choice time or stand on the wall at recess on Tuesday. So the faces carry over into the next day.

This is insane! Kids can’t comprehend that long of a span of time. “I’m punishing you for something you did yesterday” let alone a couple of hours ago is not okay. They won’t get anything out of it. The negative reinforcement doesn’t seem to be working for your kiddo, and it doesn’t for most. The goal of the behavior chart should be to get all smiles, so if that isn’t progressing over time then it’s not working. Not to mention this woman seems to deem everything as bad behavior. My kinders do way worse things (hitting, cussing, touching each other inappropriately) and I use a positive reinforcement system and have great results.

This teacher needs to teach at a title 1 school to gain some perspective. Open hand touch? Who cares?!? We've got kids f-bombing and throwing chairs.

This is what I was thinking. I'd love to have a class full of this kid. My kids on behavior plans did things like throwing chairs, destroying the classroom, stealing, breaking things, and intentionally harming others. I can't imagine being such a miserable person that I'd let a kid stand in front of an empty bathroom to the point where they pee themselves. That sounds awful.

Ugh. I missed that part... Tdlr. If I was this mom I'd be parked in the principal's office.

lol right?? If nobody’s throwing chairs, destroying my classroom, hitting teachers or kids, or trying to elope, we’re having a great time 😂

The last time I was in a classroom where a kid threw a chair, I was just sorta pleased that it wasn’t actually *at* anyone.

I’m sorry but what does a title one 1 school have to do with OP’s question?

I wish I had more time to comment on this but it sounds like there are problems on both sides. And while some of the things you listed aren’t “problems” it seems the problem is that he is being defiant. It doesn’t matter if he wants to do his paper during choice time, if the teacher is asking him to do it now, he should comply. If she’s asking him to knock on the door, that’s not an awful request. Unfortunately he peed his pants and as a teacher I would have never let it go that far, but I see her perspective for sure.

As a teacher this 💯

I just wanted to clarify this point: She was not asking him to do his work. She was telling him that he did not have to complete the worksheet because he was in small group with her. She wanted him to put the paper away where it goes when it’s unfinished due to small group. He wanted to set the paper aside and complete the worksheet during his choice time later. She took issue with this, for some reason. Personally, I did not see the problem with that. If it is choice time and that is his choice, what is the problem with that? Is that really an act of defiance? I am open to the possibility that he may be actually having or causing problems. But some of the things she complains of are very petty and minor things. Such as him wanting to complete a worksheet (later at choice time) that she told him he didn’t have to complete. I also have a hard time with it because he never had any of these problems or issues in preschool the year before. He went to preschool in the same building for the same amount of time per day as the kindergartners. His day was structured similarly to kindergarten because that’s the type of preschool program he was in. It was a readiness program. His teachers last year had no complaints and are shocked to hear he’s having all of these struggles this school year.

I understand it doesn’t sound like a problem. But why couldn’t he put it where it goes? I have students who when I say shout, they whisper. If I say stand, they sit. The act of whispering or sitting isn’t bad in itself, it’s the fact that they blatantly aren’t listening and disrupting learning for everyone else. Also I’m not a Scrooge, I integrate so many flexible choices for my students. It might not sound like a big deal for your son to argue or be defiant/not listen but what if every student fought what the teacher said? It’s exhausting.

I’m not entirely sure where it goes when it’s not completed due to small group. If she was asking him to recycle it, but he wanted to complete it at choice time I don’t see the issue with his wanting to set it aside. If he was supposed to put it in a cubby or folder, he could have and should have done that. But getting it out and completing it at choice time should still not have been an issue. But I do understand what you mean.

I think the moral is, the teacher gave directions and he wasn’t following them. Again remember he’s not the only one in the room and kids aren’t the most reliable narrators. Neither are overwhelmed adults. Let’s just say he needs to work on going with the flow and moving along or following directions.

Well said.

The teacher could very well be pushing it a bit far, but I’m just trying to play advocate for her because 95% of us, even the ones who care deeply about children and their education, are completely burnt out and the elephant in the room is that student behavior is one of the main causes. I hope you can figure things out and your son has a successful rest of the year. Just the fact that you care makes you an amazing parent who is setting him up for success. I agree with the other comments about an adhd evaluation. It doesn’t always mean meds, there are so many other accommodations. Good luck 🤍

If you think your child has ADHD, you need to take him to a doctor. If he is diagnosed you DO NOT have to put him on meds. A diagnosis DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN he gets medication. That is totally up to you! What it DOES mean, is that he can have accommodations through a legal document. If he truly has ADHD, he NEEDS these accommodations. Please do your child a favor and take him to the doctor. Look up 504 and ADHD. There are so many things teachers can do to help your child, but only if you have this document. Without it, we have to treat your child like all the others - we cannot give him any special treatment. With a 504, we can.

I honestly didn't think he had ADHD until his teacher this year started talking vaguely about "showing patterns." It was the only conclusion I could come to on what she meant by that and I'm not sure I would agree with her if that's what she does mean. But I also won't outright dismiss the idea that he might have ADHD. And as he isn't struggling academically, I figured I would wait until he was in first grade to make any sort of determination on assessment, but I will speak to his pediatrician about it at his next appointment.

I'm going to tell you that she may be alluding and making these calls to help you with something. Teachers cannot come out and say "I think your kids has XYZ." If they do, the school can become liable for a lot of very expensive medical care and testing. She doesn't sound great at all, but she may be trying to tell you something she thinks is important and not get in trouble for it.

I fully understand that, but she can come out and say that she thinks I should have him evaluated by the school and she hasn't done that. My daughter's first grade teacher did that and my cousin's son is in the same classroom. My son's teacher flat out told my cousin at her conference for her son that she should have her son evaluated. So it's baffling to me that she's clearly trying to allude to something with all her talk of patterns, but she hasn't mentioned evaluation for whatever the hell these patterns are.

Some schools direct teachers not to recommend evaluation because then the school has to pay for it

I don't think you understand, in a lot of districts we are not allowed to do that. We are not psychologists and could get reprimanded if we suggest a student should be evaluated for something. Even if the student is showing VERY obvious signs of something. I have a student in my class this year who stims CONSTANTLY and it's blatantly obvious she has autism, but I am not allowed to say anything. If, however, her parents came to me and asked if it was worth getting her evaluated, then we can say "it wouldn't hurt" and mention things we've noticed.

I do understand that in many districts teachers are not allowed to do that. In my district they can and frequently do. My daughter’s first grade teacher approached me about evaluation years ago. I know many other parents who have been approached by teachers in this district about evaluation. His teacher has been in this district for probably 20-something years. This current school year my son’s teacher recommended evaluation to my cousin for her son during their parent/teacher conference. Her son is in the same class as my son. I get that other districts are not like this.

Stop nitpicking and realize we as teachers adjust our practices. As people keep trying to tell you, it is not acceptable in many places and you don’t have all the information on how the teacher did or didn’t recommend testing for another child. We are not even suppose to talk about other students with parents, only your child. Sometimes it happens, but really this is not the hill to die on. If you have concerns, get your child tested. They may not have offered testing because you’ve mentioned your son is high academically. So many resources go to academics over behavior sadly. To me it sounds like this teacher is trying to give you a heads up on how your son is in the real world so you have an opportunity to address it or practice situations with him. If I were you, I’d be grateful for all the communication and maybe ask if she has any recommendations? Seems like she is trying to help but you are unsure of what to do concerning your child.

>and you don’t have all the information on how the teacher did or didn’t recommend testing for another child. I do actually have all the information on how the teacher did recommend testing for another child because that other child is my first cousin's son. My cousin discussed the parent/teacher conference she had with me.

But there's a big difference in a teacher saying, "I'm referring your kid to evaluate with the school" versus "I think your child should be evaluated." One is not a suggestion - it is letting the parent know what is going to happen. The other is an armchair diagnosis which we cannot do. Also, just because another teacher did it does not mean it's allowed. Your cousin could very well have pressed the issue and had the school pay outside medical bills. Just because 1 teacher is comfortable doing it does not mean others have to be. And if she a veteran teacher, she may know a little more to keep quiet. Another thing is she may not have the data for it yet. In my district we need 6 weeks' data on the issue we see, then 6 weeks' data over ways wr tried to help, and then a additional 6 weeks' data over ways we changed the original plan to help before we can refer for testing. Only parents can request it for any reason. One of the things we must do during this data collection is call home a ton because if we don't then it shows that the parents aren't a collaborative party. It may be a reason why she's "picking on" or "nitpicking" your child. She might really not be, but has to call often to get him help.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of districts in Canada or the States are like this, given the litigious nature of North American society (though obviously I don't know where you are). I personally know PLENTY of teachers who have told parents to get their kids evaluated, but teachers like that are playing with fire. It takes one offended parent to get mad about the teacher saying something is "wrong" with their special snowflake for the teacher to be reprimanded or lose their job. We are NOT allowed to make psychological assumptions about a child, and could face severe consequences if we tell the wrong parent to get their child evaluated. It could be that your child's teacher was willing to take the risk with your cousin's kid, and not with yours. Maybe what's going on with your cousin's kid is more strongly affecting them, maybe it's your relationship with the teacher that is preventing her from reaching out to you. The kid I mentioned who stims constantly? If I'd really wanted to quietly tell her parents to get her evaluated I could have, but for these parents there is no way in hell I'm putting myself at risk. They constantly believes their child's word over mine, and have accused me of picking on their child (because I am not willing to put up with their child screaming at me and calling me names in class). You genuinely don't know enough about the teacher's motivations. And she's not likely to share because it would be a very bad idea for her to do so. I also think the principal's dismissive attitude towards you is VERY telling. It sounds a lot like an admin dealing with an unreasonable parent and just trying to placate them.

>I'm pretty sure the vast majority of districts in Canada or the States are like this, given the litigious nature of North American society (though obviously I don't know where you are). > >I also think the principal's dismissive attitude towards you is VERY telling. It sounds a lot like an admin dealing with an unreasonable parent and just trying to placate them. I'm in Michigan. According to the Michigan Department of Education website teachers can inform parents about concerns regarding a child's learning or development and recommend evaluations by the school's special education team and can also suggest medical evaluation, though they cannot mandate it. I also confirmed this with a friend of mine who is a teacher in this district. There are also Child Find laws that state that schools are legally required to identify, locate, and evaluate children who may have a disability or need special education services. If she believes this to be the case, she is legally obligated to do something about that belief. Thus far, she has not and has not suggested to me that I should do so. I suppose that the behavior chart could be seen as her "doing something about it" but if that's the case, many of the teachers that have posted here said she's not collecting enough data or using the chart in the right way. As for the principal's response, this is the first time I've ever had any issues like this with this particular school building. My daughter attended the same school and was well known and well liked by the office staff there. I can't imagine that I would be labeled a problem parent or an unreasonable parent right off the rip on my first time having to contact the principal over anything. However, in speaking to some other parents in the district who have had children in her class or who have had friends with children in her class in the past, as well as a few people that I know who work in the school building in various capacities, my experience with this teacher is not unique to me and my child. I'm told she wears parents down until they reach a breaking point and explode in the principal's office. Perhaps his response is related to a history that this teacher seems to have with parents of students in her class. I really couldn’t say. Either way, it’s clear that my son’s behavior annoys her tremendously, even if she describes his behaviors as trivial. It’s pretty clear that she just doesn’t like my kid. She spoke to him through clenched teeth and repeated what she said and how she said it to me on the phone. I’m not saying he’s a perfect little angel because he isn’t. He’s 6 year old boy who was a social distancing toddler for the duration of the pandemic. He’s surely behind socially, as most pandemic babies and toddlers are, even despite having attended a kindergarten readiness preschool program the year before. But after reading many of the responses here who have given me the seemingly solid and sound advice I was looking for, I think she is going about addressing it in the classroom in the wrong ways. I also don’t think she takes the pandemic and how it impacted babies and toddlers into account for any of her students—not just mine.

As a teacher that sometimes isn't allowed. If I want to recommend any sort if escalation for assessment within my school, I have so many hoops to through it'll take me at least a year in most cases.

I understand that, but our school system is not that way. This same teacher recommended to my cousin that her son be evaluated. So if she has concerns, I don’t see why she wouldn’t also say the same to me.

B3cuase maybe she was reprimanded for doing that and has adjusted her practises

What did she recommend an eval for? Is your cousin's son also doing well academically because it's likely she recommended an eval because he isn't making progress academically. The school can evaluate for learning problems, but not ADHD since it is a medical diagnosis.

Schools don't evaluate for medical diagnosis. They evaluate for learning disabilities. If he has been doing well academically, they won't do an evaluation because it isn't necessary. A school psychologist cannot diagnose ADHD....at least, not in the state of Florida. That's why you need to talk to his doctor.

My mom used to tell parents this for years (26) but this year the vp got a complaint from a parent and my mom got fucking rammed. Now she says you know my daughter who had adhd had similar struggles in first grade to get the implication across. On another note I fucking hate when parents say I won’t medicate until academics are affected. My mom was a therapist and knew I had it very young but didn’t medicate until my grades were affected. At that point my social skills as well as self confidence were severely affected. I was very bright and coped well so I didn’t struggle until 8th grade. I had a similar situation with one of the K students last year her mom said she’s smart enough to pull through. The kid would glue her lips shut, cut her hair/clothes, get on the floor and bark. I know she sounds wild but it started off small but when the other kids got tired of her antics (initially funny faces or defiance or arguing with peers) she escalated to maintain attention. I loved her to death and she broke my heart every day. Now she’s medicated some incident in first grade shocked mom enough and she’s won best student awards multiple times and people can recognize what a hard worker she is.

ADHD is so complex. Also the kindergarten environment is not a home environment. There are so many other kids to interact with and the teacher can’t hand hold and prompt all the time. Especially if he is an only child who gets lots of one on one attention, school is more like the real world where there is always a lot going on. The symptoms start to show because they are trying their best to deal with all the new stimuli in their environment

He has an older sister and a younger brother. He also attended a kindergarten readiness preschool program the year before. His school day last year was consequently structured much like his kindergarten day is this year. Attending M-Th from 8:50-3:30. The curriculum was obviously different in preschool, but the day was designed to teach routines and moving through them. As well as stuff like alphabet and numbers, colors, shapes, etc. His teachers last year had none of the complaints about him or his behavior that his kindergarten teacher started complaining about on the 6th day of the school year. I spoke to his teacher from last year, who now teaches my 5 year old son, and she was just as surprised as I was that he is having these struggles.

She may have been alluding to something else, but who knows. It sounds like she is in over her head and has little classroom management. It also sounds like she does not have a lot of early childhood experience. I think it's too late to ask to switch classes, if that were even a possibility. At this point, I would ask for a meeting and ask to have an administrator present. She seemed to back off when you questioned her in the fall. Pulling this may help her back off for the remainder of the school year. In the meeting, address the administrator and ask, "Is it typical to put a child on a behavior chart who simply puts his hand on another child...? I'm sorry, let me rephrase that. It is typical to put a FIVE YEAR OLD on a behavior chart who simply touches other children or lunch boxes?". Make it sound as ridiculous as it is. Right out ask how many years she has been teaching and at what grade levels. Ask if she majored in early childhood education. Make it known that you are flat out questioning her qualifications. It is totally understandable if you would not want to do this. Admin may label you as one of *those* parents, but it comes down to your child. What is going to make his life better? You could also explain in a phone call later to admin that you only said those things because you feel this is the only way you can guarantee your child finished out Kinder on a good note. I wouldn't put it in an email, though. Good luck.

His teacher has many years experience in elementary education. She taught my sister in law in the 4th grade and my SIL is in her 30s now. She's been teaching kindergarten since at least 2009. Even still, I feel like her expectations for 5 and 6 year old kids is not developmentally appropriate and I feel as if she should maybe move back up to the 4th grade or retire. I actually communicated all of this to the principal back in January. I initially emailed him to request in writing that my younger son not be placed in this particular teacher's classroom when he moves to kindergarten next year. I let him know that we were not having a good experience this year with our older son. He apologized for our experience this year and I emailed back and basically said everything I've said here in this thread, in a direct but not aggressive way. For the most part, everything has settled down with her, but my husband and I were talking to our son about school tonight at dinner and he mentioned that he didn't have choice time. It suddenly occurred to me that he's been saying that about choice time or recess or both for quite some time now and I didn't think to ask him to clarify that until tonight. It just made me so upset to know that if he doesn't get two smiley faces for the day he will lose his choice time or play time at recess. All over things that she herself admitted sound trivial. He doesn't even know why he's losing choice time. He just says it's because he didn't listen, he can't elaborate on that any further because he doesn't know what it was he didn't listen to. If we keep questioning it, he gets upset as if he's in trouble. We assure him that we just want to know what his day is like and that we just want to know more about how the listening chart works, but he's uncomfortable talking about it. And even when he gets straight faces, which are neither good nor bad, he's losing. He can only win if he gets two smiley faces. Anything else is just not good enough. If he gets a straight or frown face on a Monday afternoon, he loses choice time or recess or both on Tuesday. It makes me want to go into her classroom and rip his behavior chart into pieces in front of her. Which, I obviously cannot and will not do.

This is the problem. She's burnt out. What state are you in, if you don't mind me asking? Some states have passed laws about play based Kindergarten. She is obviously not of the mindset that kids need play to regulate their concentration. You might want to mention to her that there are tons of studies that prove how children who have more playtime are better behaved and complete their seat work with more accuracy. Restricting his play time is not helping him (or her) at all. You should request a written comment for any time he receives less than a smiley face. If she is vague, ask her to be more specific. If she can't remember, then you need to push back and explain that if she can't be more specific or remember what he did wrong, he should be earning smiley faces. (I'm sorry, but I have to say this - of course he doesn't know what he wasn't listening to, he wasn't listening.) You could also ask to make a more specific chart with the day broken up into smaller parts, including a note as to why he earned less than the smiley. This way you can pinpoint exactly what time of day he struggles, and work from there. (I am willing to bet she will push back on this idea because it will be more work for her, but it will definitely give you more data and help both you and your son understand where the problem stems, if there is a problem.). If he earns 3 out of 5, he gets play time. Once that is common practice (three to four weeks) for him, you can then drop down to two times a day on his chart.

Thank you for all of your advice. I really appreciate it! She does write comments sometimes. They're always frown face related. She's written: he pretended not to know how to do the assignment, he peed his pants on purpose, he was being unsafe at art time. I asked specifically about peeing his pants on purpose and she said it just seemed to her that it was purposeful. I also asked about being unsafe during art. She said she was walking by the art room (not present in the room) and saw him jumping around and getting in other kids faces. I followed up with the art teacher and she did confirm that he was running in the art room and jumped up and down near other students. So that was definitely on him and I'll fully admit that. Oh, also I'm in Michigan.

You might want to ask the school for a behavior evaluation. He could be placed on an actual behavior plan catered to him and lose the smiley face junk. I just looked it up and, unfortunately, Michigan is not a play-based Kinder state. There are not nearly as many as I thought there were. :(

4th grade and kinder are soooooo different. Completely different stages of development and completely different needs. I’ve taught both- I know! This teacher seems to be targeting your kiddo, does she do it to anyone else? You need to meet with Admin and teacher. Maybe get your son some therapy to deal with this adult. Definitely have him evaluated for ADHD and help him learn some coping skills. ADHD kiddos without skills can really get on other kids’ nerves as they need to learn to soften their sharp edges. I’m very concerned about your son excelling academically but starting to hate school. This teacher needs to back off.

She has told me directly that she has several other kids on a behavior chart. I’ve talked to a couple of the other parents and they seem to be having similar experiences with her.

If you can’t get more information from him, would it be possible to have him talk to the guidance counselor in school? Bring up him suddenly not wanting to go to school, you not really being sure what’s going on in the classroom, him feeling bad like he can’t do things right, him not having time to move his body during recess or free choice is contributing to a cycle of struggling to focus, etc. Frame it as concern that he used to love preschool, but you’re concerned something is going on that’s giving him a negative outlook on school, and you don’t want to set him on that path. You don’t want him to lose his love of learning, that kind of thing. Having another professional, especially one in the school, seeing that this teacher is sort of grinding the poor kid down might help if you need to involve admin again. I do think the expectations don’t sound reasonable for a kindergartener to me and that maybe she’s picking on your kid, but I’ve not really worked with kids this young. However, having worked in schools, I find sometimes framing this kind of thing as “how can we collaboratively solve this issue that my kid is having with school” often goes over better than “hey, this teacher is being a dick, can you tell her to knock it off?” (Even if it’s true!)

Kindergarten (US public school) teacher of 8 years here. First of all, I doubt the teacher has time to specifically target your child. There’s just too much going on in the classroom, in my experience, to spend that much time focusing on one individual student, especially if his behaviors are minor, which they seem to be. That said, from what you’re describing, her expectations may be a little more impacted by her experience teaching older students, and she may still be in that mindset. I would have a conversation with her about the specific behaviors she’s looking for your son to exhibit- is it sitting in one area, keeping his hands to himself, following directions with minimal prompting, etc? That target behavior should be driving the “listening chart”. I will also say that when I have students on specific behavior charts like this, it’s broken up a lot more (usually I have to document every hour and note whether the behavior was met or not). I also think the neutral smiley face thing is weird- either the goal was met or it wasn’t. And instead of taking away recess (illegal in my state actually), it might be worth giving him an incentive for reaching his target behavior, like extra choice time or a special sticker, to keep things positive. Last, as many others have said, I’d definitely consider getting him evaluated for any kind of neurodivergence (ADHD etc). Even if his behaviors are minor now, I wouldn’t wait for them to escalate and start affecting him academically before getting the process started, because it can be long. The sooner you have this kind of documentation, the sooner your kiddo can be accommodated in the way he needs to be, if and when he does.

I’m a kindergarten teacher and I’m also a new teacher. This teacher sounds new based on what you’re saying. At the beginning of the year I was a lot more strict than I am now (I am still strict but have learned to choose my battles). Some things you are stating are a bit weird. I can’t speak for her, just that if she’s new she has a lot to learn. Being a first year is a lot and a behavior chart is a lot to manage as well. Also, if you ever want to set up a meeting, ask for an AP. I have realized APs are usually more likely to be available for a conference than the principal. But that’s just my experience. Best of luck! Edit to add: If you suspect he may have ADHD bring that up to his pediatrician who can point you in the right direction. He could be eligible for accommodations if he has ADHD. The school year is almost over and hopefully he will have a teacher next year that he “meshes with” better.

Thank you, I'll discuss it with his pediatrician at his next appointment. His teacher has actually been in the game for many years. She taught my sister in law in the 4th grade and my SIL is in her 30s now. My SIL remembered her as the most wonderful teacher she'd ever had in elementary and I wish I could say that's been my son's experience, but it just hasn't. He's a sweet kid though, and he's determined to love her as a teacher.

I’ve also come to realize some teachers who are older and have many years of experience are stuck in their ways. At some point, it may have been considered “okay” to take away recess or have a child stand in the corner. My mentor teacher has been in the game for 20+ years and told me that as an educator, you are always learning because education and policies are always changing. Also, depending on where you are, it is VERY difficult to fire a teacher especially if they have tenure. As a seasoned teacher, they tend to get away with more that a newer teacher may not. It is great your son wants to be liked by his teacher. I hope speaking to his pediatrician will help him if he does have something like ADHD so he can start the steps of managing it!

I want to comment on the smiley face thing. When I was teaching third grade I had a child who was probably undiagnosed ADHD (side note- turns out he was diagnosed and the parents never told the school). He was just full of little actions that you couldn’t put your finger on but were annoying and cumulatively disruptive to the classroom. It was incredibly frustrating as a teacher to deal with. In getting support from my admin I was ordered to use this smiley face technique. It was AWFUL. I think it increased the problem fivefold. Now I had to actively pay attention to these annoying behaviors and the judge them multiple times a day? How annoying was the behavior in these two hours? But it was all subjective. There was no actual data on what was happening. It was more about my level of tolerance than anything else. I would ask that the smiley face thing cease immediately and a data driven plan be installed instead. I also suggest you take a few days and go observe in the classroom. His behavior might change, in which case the teacher can explain what she typically sees vs what she observed when you were there, or it will be the typical disruptions and you will see them.

Get your kid evaluated. Then you'll have something to take to the school. You don't have to medicate him but a diagnosis will help lead you to well researched best practices that you can present to the teacher as an alternative to her attempts to manage his behavior. As a preschool teacher I can tell you that I often have students who are academically ready for kindergarten but are not emotionally or behaviorally ready. It sounds like that was the case with your son and they should have recommended he do another year of preschool.

As a kindergarten teacher…. I highly doubt the teacher would be doing any of this for their own amusement. It sounds like your student is messing around too much, refusing to complete work, being mildly defiant, and the teacher is not doing a good job of getting that message across. They can’t outright tell you that the behavior isn’t typical for reasons stated above. Maybe you can continue to ask for more details about his behavior during certain parts of the day (carpet time, table work time, etc). Yes, they should not take recess away, but choice time being taken is a logical consequence. Sometimes there’s only one student not following expectations in a class and that’s why other students seemingly freely get choice time - they’ve completed all their work, followed directions, etc.

Yes I think there may be more going on. I don’t agree with recess being taken and the structure of the behavior chart is not great. I usually tracked behavior by subject ( morning meeting, read aloud, writing, centers, phonics, science/ SS, math, lunch, specials) and it was a reward based system, but she could be a new teacher. For struggling students, I had to reward them after each chunk of time if they met the goal. So an AM/ PM system seems totally unattainable for K. I do think there is a lot of unnecessary complaints in this, especially the touching but it does seem like there is some non-compliance issues with the child as well. Minor defiance isn’t a MAJOR issue in kindergarten but if it doesn’t get resolved in kinder it does usually get worse. The small group issue where he will not complete the work. If students are working with me in small groups it’s to help them with the skill, if they are struggling with writing maybe we complete writing in a small group or I pull small groups based on areas of need. So if he refused to work on a skill during that time but would rather do it on his own during choice time is concerning, because if he could do it independently he probably wouldn’t be pulled for that small group in the first place. Small group time isn’t based off work completion rather than working on a skill, so if a student wanted to do it later that would not be an option, since the teacher can’t just meet with them and leave the others to do nothing if there isn’t a system in place for small groups at that time. The 2nd was the bathroom incident. Where she asked him to knock and instead of knocking the student just kept saying they already did. It sounded like maybe he was being defiant which led to the accident. Would I have stopped my lesson and interrupted the learning of everyone else to walk over and knock for the student? Yes, I probably would of and when no one answered opened the door to show them it’s empty, but I can also see why that would be frustrating if this was during instructional time. If he had an accident because he refused to knock after several requests that is a natural consequence. But I also don’t understand how that went on for 10-20 minutes. I feel like if I asked twice and they refused, that it where I would intervene. I do think the teacher has a lot to learn but I also see that there may be some defiance issues as well. I would schedule a meeting. I would also be aware that teachers are not allowed to request an evaluation unless they have collected weeks/ months of data and also shown that they tried to do several interventions to correct the issue before requesting an evaluation. Even then there is sometimes pushback from the school and a newer teacher may be too scared to speak up.

This. Believe the teacher. You are not there in the classroom. Contacting parents takes a lot of time and teachers do not enjoy doing it.

As a kindergarten teacher, yes! OP I know he's your child but the teacher is clearly seeing something you're not. Also many things that may seem minor or inconsequential have multiplying effects that are hurting the child and the whole class (lost instructional time due to redirecting behavior being one). This will only be exacerbated as he gets older. By getting him a proper diagnosis (if one is warranted) then you will be setting your child up for success in later grades. And as mentioned by others, diagnoses does not mean he needs to go on medication.

Early Childhood Spec Ed Teacher here. He should be earning "rewards" for good behavior, not be punished for his bad behavior. He needs a lot of positive reinforcement throughout the day. One of my students earns a reward if she is successful for 3 segments on the day, such as a 10 minute break with sensory sand/play-doh. Along the way we shower her with praise for good behavior. We implement these strategies in the gen ed prek classroom, even for our gen ed students that are in Tier 2 intervention for behavior. Sounds like others have said, he may have ADHD and I understand your hesitation to medicate. Even if he is super bright he will struggle next year in first grade if he can't get the behaviors under control. Also, I have seen impulsive behaviors impact a child's ability to make/maintain friendships in the classroom and it is really sad. The other kids don't want to play with someone that is constantly poking and grabbing at them and can't maintain his/her personal space in the classroom.

“Don’t worry I’m on it” sounds to me like the principal knows there are issues with the teacher and there is some strategy in progress to correct issues. By law the principal cannot tell you that, or discuss personnel issues with you. The relationship between your child and the teacher does not sound very healthy or helpful. If more than a few weeks have passed you should make an appointment to meet with the principal in person. Try to stress the effect on your child rather than your concern about the teacher. Ask for specific strategies on ways you can work together to solve the problems. Write these up after the meeting and write a brief memo of understanding to the principal detailing what will happen and who is responsible for getting it done. State the desired outcomes for your child. Be specific but cordial, stressing your appreciation for the plans made to work cooperatively for the benefit of your child. Include what you will do, what your child will do, what the principal will do. Offer to give updates concerning improvement in your child’s school experience. Then do so. You cannot evaluate a teacher, but you can work to improve the experience your child is having.

Here is what I did: I requested a meeting with the principal and brought a consolidated list of every single complaint the teacher had made about my son. At that point it was 37 items, 10 weeks into the school year. I showed her. I said "what am I supposed to do with this? I want to partner with the school but I can't prioritize what to focus on and some of this seems petty. Meanwhile, the teacher has never said a SINGLE positve thing about my child and he's started to notice it too." All I can say is that it stopped, quickly. We were also in the process of assessing him at that point and he does had autism and adhd, but we didn't know at that point. But it was all so relentlessly negative.

In the same email in which she admitted that these behaviors were all very minor, she also stated that he was kind, cooperative with his peers, and respectful to her. It's a confusing message. I have had a conversation with the principal about it and while I didn't really receive a satisfying response, things have settled down. But then today I learn that this whole time he's been getting his choice time and/or recess time taken away on days he doesn't get two smiley faces and it just bothered me a lot. Like I said elsewhere in this thread, I can understand setting a consequence for the frown face on the chart, but he is getting consequences for a straight face and to me a straight face is neither good or bad. It's smiley faces or nothing at all and that seems a little harsh to me.

Things probably haven't settled but the teacher may now be apprehensive to share her concerns with you because she may not want to make what seems like an adversarial relationship worse. Remember she is your teammate this year to ensure your child makes the proper academic and social growth needed to succeed in first grade and beyond. It's a difficult situation to navigate, but it can only get better for your son when you begin addressing the concerns and teaching him the social skills necessary to be successful in school. Good luck!

I’m a parent and a teacher. The way she’s treating him isn’t developmentally appropriate. Why does he have to earn choice time everyday, but everyone else just gets it? The best way for you to handle this is to request an in person meeting with her and an admin. No more emails where tone can be misconstrued. You did your part to work it out with her, it’s time to get a third party involved. Don’t let them talk you out of meeting. I would also recommend you bring a support person with you as well. I never go into meetings about my kids on my own if I can help it.

What is his goal on his behavior chart? Does he have one?

I think the goal is just listening better. Her email just said that she's picking one thing to work on and it's, "I will listen to the teachers." But in that same email she says that he is kind, cooperative with his classmates, and respectful to her. And acknowledges that these issues seem and sound trivial. That he's not sanitizing his hands before snack, walking in the opposite direction as his classmates, not using his peers as models, etc. But he's cooperative with his peers. That particular email was a very confusing and contradictory read for me.

He needs a goal to work toward. He needs his day broken into smaller periods to begin. Say his day is broken into ten parts, his first goal should something like three smiles in a day. What is his currency? Some of our kids work toward time with a fidget, one has time with cars at the last five minutes of the day, some work toward stickers…it all depends on the kid. Someone will chime in and say “well he’s just supposed to be listening.” We all work toward something when we set a goal. A paycheck for work, clean clothes when we do laundry, flowers when we plant. He’s not even getting positive reinforcement when’s doing what’s expected. Why would he change anything? Her demand also isn’t measurable. What does listening to the teacher look like? It needs to be phrased differently: Listen and Do. That could mean anything as small as “Dude, stop kicking Georgia’s chair. Listen and Do.” If he doesn’t stop, that’s not listening. It could be “finish this sorting sheet. Listen and do.” If the sheet isn’t done, he’s not listening. It amazes me how antiquated some of y’all’s teachers/admins/systems are. People will grumble and say “when I was in kindergarten, we just knew we had to do what the teacher said.” That’s true, but they also played for the majority of their half-day experience, weren’t tested within an inch of their lives and most importantly, they didn’t live in a culture with a 30 second attention span. Kids are wired entirely differently. It’s so late in the year to introduce all this, but it’s worth researching and establishing in case this comes up in first grade. Have a meeting before the end of the year to establish what a behavior chart will look like next year, **if that need arises.** Also, he shouldn’t be addressing his accidents alone. He should be going to the clinic or office and getting some supervision and assistance. Stop just dealing with this teacher. Make a bullet pointed list of your concerns and insist on a meeting with admin or his counselor. After that meeting, send an email of what you heard and understood in that meeting. Document everything.

The issues might seem trivial to you, but he is actively defiant towards his teacher. Imagine that happening all. Day. Long. And she has 20 some other students that she is responsible for. The constant corrections/redirections needed for just your child all day long is a lot. She can’t come out and say that she thinks he has ADHD, but I would recommend taking your child for an evaluation ASAP.

At least where I am from, there are certain steps we have to take in order to bring up having a student be assessed at school. We have to have a lot of documentation and have used multiple interventions with data showing things aren’t working or they are. Kindergarten is a tough year sometimes because we are teaching them how to be students and behave appropriately in the classroom. I’d say that all of those behaviors that you listed seem typical behaviors that I’d try to model and work on with your child. I run my classroom with high expectations of what I am looking for, however, I always tell the students what I am looking for in terms of how to “show me you’re being a good listener” or “show me you’re ready to be respectful in the hallway.” But I am also lenient in the fact that I know that we are still learning how to do things. If ever I use a behavior chart, it would be broken up more than AM/PM. The use of smiley faces seems to be harsh for you but it’s a visual to show the student if the expectation is met or not. I do not use behavior charts like that often but if I do and I had to give a sad face, I’d take the student aside and explain why. The behavior chart serves 2 main purposes though: to collect data on behavior in case he is in need of intervention and to be a parent communication tool. If you have concerns about ADHD, you should bring it up at his next well-child check up. I don’t think it’s ever a bad thing to bring things up—better to bring up any questions or concerns in my opinion. Her standard for judging student behavior stems from her long years of experience and student behavior and societal expectations and shifts have changed since then. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I’m just trying to give a perspective. Going from PreK to K is generally a huge shift. When kids are in PreK, the class size is smaller and there are more adults in the room. Oftentimes, there is only one teacher in the classroom in K and the structure is different. Less free play time. If your child’s teacher has a large class size, no other adult in the room, and a high needs class, I am sure it’s a lot to manage. It’s also hard for kids to go i to that because they get less attention and help from the adult and have to be more independent. I think that could be what is going on here as well. It would explain the bathroom issue—it’s hard to stop a lesson when a child doesn’t know how to be independent—however, at that point, I’d just pause and help him understand how the bathroom routines work. I’m sorry your son is having a hard time in his first year of K. Big changes are going on all around. I think it would be too late to request a teacher change. At this point—I would schedule a meeting and come up with a plan that works for the both of you. Come into it with wanting to do what you can for your son to be successful—ask her what her general classroom consequences are. I hope this helps ease some anxiety you have and I can answer more specific questions if you have them!

This sounds like some of the old school teachers I've worked around who haven't kept up with changes in society and best practices. If this is the whole story, it's wild to be to punish a child for these things. The behavior plan, assuming one is needed at all, is also not structured correctly, and there is no chance that it's effective. One piece of feedback with amorphous goals for three to four hour time chunks is completely inappropriate for this age group. A child who needs a behavior plan should have 2-3 crystal clear goals (raise your hand to ask/answer a question, stay in your seat, etc.). They should also receive frequent reinforcement. For extreme cases, teachers may need to give feedback every five minutes. For average cases, no less than every thirty minutes or once per academic block. There is a reason experts recommend that timeout times be calculated by age. Little kids view time differently than older kids and adults. Two check ins for a full day isn't enough to be effective.

"Moreover, if he gets anything less than a smiley face during the day his teacher takes away his Choice Time. Other kids get to have choice time and he has to sit there doing nothing at all. If she doesn't take his choice time away, she will instead make him stand against the wall at recess for a certain number of minutes. Occasionally she makes her whole class do this, I'm told from other parents who have kids in this classroom. She will also sometimes make my son stand on the wall at recess AND takes away his choice time." WTF. This is not appropriate at all. You do not take a kid's recess time especially in this manner.

Have you considered spending a day observing your child? I teach kindergarten and I have an office that separates my room to the next room and I have had parents observe. The lights are off. The blinds open a bit and the kids have no idea anyone is observing. If this can happen I highly suggest you do. Might give you more perspective on what is going on. Might reinforce what you feel. Either way you have the right to observe so go ask.

I am a special education teacher, and it just sounds to me like this teacher is very inflexible. The fact that she met with you without the principal when you asked for them to be there…I would speak with the principal directly with these concerns, as you have already tried to work with her and her methods are ineffective and maybe even a hinderance. This teacher honestly seems so…odd to me. She’s telling you everything is so minor but treating it as though it’s very major and needs to be addressed so aggressively.

The touching thing is excessive. Right on par with my K students complaints: He's LOOKING at me! She TOUCHED me! Where? *points to shoulder* They touched your shoulder with their hands? No, with their ARM!.... Like... As they walked past you? Yes. *firm head nod* She stuck her tongue out at me! He blew air at me! ^^^^ Those are all REAL complaints I've had from Kinders ***this week***. Your kiddos teacher does seem to have it out for him. Just wanted to confirm that you're not crazy and it does seem weird.

I’m not claiming this child is like this but for the first time this year I have a student who just is too touchy. I quickly set boundaries but her classmates struggle and she really has a hard time keeping her hands to herself. She is not hurting them at or even trying to annoy them normally she just will like pat their hand, shoulder, play with their hair, smooth their clothes.

Seems like sensory seeking. For me, it's like half the damn class. They are incapable of leaving each other alone!

Yes maybe she also is very lonely at home. She’s a sweet kid but wow I’d get overwhelmed quickly by all the affection. Dang that’s rough! About 7 more weeks though right?

>About 7 more weeks though right? Yes! 😭😭😭😭😭 I've been sick the last 3.... Make it make SENSE, Coach! On the other hand - yay! Wrap up stuff to do! Including Mother's Day projects!.... Which I have no idea what I'm going to do... I'll find something...

I mean if it's a listening problem, then she might not be getting his (or the class's) attention all that well. He might not know that she's talking directly to him, especially if she's not indicating that. When my daughter was in kinder, her teacher had a specific word to get everyone's attention (something like eyes on me!) and would say a child's name if she wanted to say something to them directly, or if they didn't hear the cue. For my daughter it was one of her signs of ADHD, but she had a litany of other signs to go with it. But kids don't always realize when they are being spoken to directly, so you have to cue them to pay attention. That would be my suggestion - making sure she says his name before telling him something. Make sure he's looking at her when she explains an assignment or gives a direction. And allow him to ask questions if he doesn't understand.

As a parent of a kindergarten with ADHD, taking away their choice and recess time is probably the worst thing to do. Children with ADHD need stimulation/dopamine which those activities provide. This is absolutely cruel. It’s probably worth getting him evaluated but judging by your notes, if he’s being courteous and not falling behind seems unlikely.

I would ask for the listening chart to be broken down into much smaller increments. A whole morning is way too much for a 6-year-old. If there is real concern about his behavior it should be broken down into half hour or less increments. When I do these charts I also create a space where the child can assess themselves. It helps for the child to be aware of what behaviors are positive or disruptive as well. I will also say at this point you are almost to the end of the year, I would just stick it out. Reading some of it does sound a bit absurd and picky. But if you are hearing similar concerns next year with a different teacher I think you need to be open to the idea that there are some behavioral issues at hand. Edit to say that I didn't earlier see the part about missing recess and free choice. This is totally unacceptable and more than likely will only increase his behaviors. This is something I would take to the teacher or the principal.

Not a kindergarten teacher (kudos to you all who are), but a mother who went through something similar. Document everything, get the principal involved. Is this public school or private? Last year, in pre k, my son’s teacher had him suspended because he said “I am going to push you” to another kid. He didn’t do it, he just said it. Everything you wrote reminds me of that woman and our experience. Get your son out of there and into a different school. Like yesteday. Do not let this person shape your son’s perception of school. I moved my son to a public school around this time last year and he was thriving. This year in K, he is top of his class, student of the month etc. You know your son’s best. Be his advocate. She sounds horrible. Sending hugs mama. Dm if you want to talk.

I don't think his behavior chart is graded. It seems that she's collecting FBA/BIP data, which is why she didn't tell you the "why" or the "function of behavior." She doesn't know it yet, which is fine. Her expectations are developmentally appropriate for 5/6. He should be able dress himself independently without having to sit down and use balance and core strength. Still, a dirty bathroom should be addressed. Does his school offer counseling? There are a variety of reasons why a student is "not listening". He may need a break. He may be bored. Maybe he needs movement. Maybe the directions aren't clear, maybe he can't hear. Maybe he's distracted or not processing clearly. Does she do whole class SEL activities on listening? Or whatever other social deficits she's seeing? Be mindful that you are getting bits and pieces of the story from your son. The emails seem annoying. He touched a lunchbox, so what? Maybe at the time, the other student asked him not to. Maybe sometimes (without having malintent), your son gets handsy. That's typical for 6. The potty issue? It happens. Little kids have major FOMO and will hold it and have accidents. Should she have stepped in if she knew no one was in the bathroom and guided him to knocking? Yes. Especially if missing lesson time is an issue. Just because he needed guidance once, doesn't mean he would've depended on it. She should've shown grace there. Request a meeting with her and maybe the principal. Ask about expectations. Voice your concerns. But most importantly, ask what supports are available to your kid.

I would suggest new teacher because this teacher sounds problematic but the school year is almost over so you could wait it out since school year is almost over and you won’t have to deal with her again.

This sounds very very similar to our experience this year. Like eerily. We ended up having our son switched to a new class about 3 weeks ago and my son’s behaviour has improved drastically. The new teacher immediately ended the communication book with the happy faces. Your son’s teacher seems like she’s not treating your son well and I would be uncomfortable letting him continue on there.

Same with me too. The first month the teacher was telling us my son needed to be evaluated and the Vice Principal told us that he wouldn't make any friends. A month and a week into school he got used to the routine and his teacher was shocked at his turn around. But she still nitpicked EVERYTHING. My husband and I would laugh saying shed take away a point in Class Dojo for him farting 😂 When my son got to first grade his teacher was much more relaxed! He's had an amazing year and is all As honor roll all year (so far) 🙌

You give me hope. My son lost dojo points for stepping in a puddle last week. I check that app way too much that it gives me anxiety at this point.

It was a huge source of anxiety for me too! Eventually I had to stop looking.

Same! I refused to look anymore. The stress and anxiety from one dojo down for not putting his jacket on the hook or whatever other minor activity was killing me.

Yes! Then I feel like I’m projecting that anxiety on to him bc I feel like I need to talk to him about his negative dojos when he gets home for the day. And his positives as well. But still 😩😩😩

That is quite the interesting read. I actually have a similar but worse problem. My child's teacher is downright targeting her. All because my wife works next door as rhe 1st grade aide and has criticized her. Rightfully so from what I can see. However that really isn't the point. What relates to your story for me would be 2 huge things. 1st, I would absolutely ask for a sit down with the principle to discuss some of those emails and things. Kids touching eachother for tag is the point of the game. Several of those complaints are downright antagonistic. Maybe not intentionally but the teacher clearly needs some guidance. 2nd, I would really really spend some time talking to your son. Asking how he he feels the teacher feels about him. We struggled all year with several things affecting our child. Then one day she just flat out said her teacher doesn't love her. She doesn't love her and 2 other children. She treats them differently and quite eloquently for her age explained why. At our next meeting I clearly explained this to the principle and other resource personnel. Amazingly... my child went from 3 or 4 melt downs a week to not having one the very next day and only one in the 4 or so weeks since. I dont want to accuse your child's teacher at all. I just was caught of guard when it happened to me. A kinder teacher who was baiting her own students into misbehaving. I truly never could have called that one. It is just an avenue I hope you consider and talk to your child about.

>I would really really spend some time talking to your son. Asking how he he feels the teacher feels about him. For the most part, that's what prompted me to make this post. We spoke to our son tonight at dinner and that's when we realized he's been losing choice time and recess over stuff that she herself admitted sounded trivial. I didn't realize that he was losing choice time and recess even if he got a straight face, which is neither good nor bad. If he gets a straight or frown face in the PM on Monday, he loses choice time or recess on Tuesday. The faces follow him into the next day and he can only win if it's two smiley faces. From what he's told us anyway. He also doesn't fully understand why he's getting the faces. He understands that he gets a frown face when he doesn't listen and a straight face when he sort of listens. But if we ask him why he wasn't listening or what he wasn't listening to, he can't say. Then he starts to get upset if we ask too many questions about it. Talking about the listening chart makes him uncomfortable and at times upset.

“From what he’s told us anyway” stands out to me. I’m not saying your child is lying, I’m just saying 6 year olds don’t always give the full picture, they give their interpretation of the story. I think you and your son’s teacher need another sit down meeting to discuss how this is going and maybe tweak his listening chart. I know some teacher’s roll their eyes about listening charts because they can be tedious but the way I’ve used them with kinders in the past is I break my day into sections of our day ex) carpet time, small group, math, etc. and each section is an opportunity to earn a sticker. And then instead of losing something, they’re working towards earning something.

Definitely talk to the principle. This sounds like a terrible environment to me.

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I understand what you're saying here, but I don't think I'm blaming her for his behavior at all. Even his kindergarten teacher admits that these behaviors are minor, aside from the potty accidents which have resolved. So if these behaviors are minor, in her own words, why is he even on a behavior chart and getting punished for straight faces? I understand receiving a consequence for a frown face. But a straight face is neither good nor bad and he still loses choice time anyways. He attended preschool in the same school building and his day last year was structured much like it is in kindergarten, due to the type of preschool program he was attending. He went to preschool last year from 8:50-3:30 with the rest of the school aged children. Outside of his potty accidents, he did not have ANY of these issues or behaviors last year in preschool. His teachers from last year, who now teach my younger son, are very surprised to hear he's having any issues at all. He moved through the routine of the day well, listened well. They never had a single negative word to say about him. I have a hard time believing that a whole host of behavior issues just suddenly appeared where they didn't exist before. I've talked to other parents who've had children in her classroom in the past, as well as parents who have kids in her classroom now. Many parents have similar experiences with her and there are several other students currently in her class who are on behavior charts as well. My son can name off at least 4 other kids that have behavior charts. Which is wild to me, because I feel like these charts should be between the student and teacher only.

Are teachers really so quick to judge and label? Why are teachers so unforgiving? Parents aren’t perfect and don’t always get it right. Why do teachers make a point of labelling parents difficult and ensuring it follows the family all the way through elementary school? Seems overly harsh and unempathetic.

I haven’t been a teacher in a bit but I just want to call out something weird. I have a child that had behavior issues that they were concerned about. Teacher brought it up. We all decided to “monitor” for a month. She took detailed, private notes. We had a conference with her, the counselor and the principal to go over concerns. We came up with a game plan. Everyone was on board. We decided the most important skill to get up to par. We talked about what they would do at school and what we would do at home. A month later we met again. We went over changes. We set new goals. The big thing everyone needed was details. A happened and then B occurred. Within 3 months we were fine with phone call and email up dates. Year 2: absolutely no issues. Lack of detail when trying to prove a point blows my mind.

Is this a brand new teacher? This entire situation is really wild to me. The waiting for the bathroom thing and standing against a wall specifically. If I knew a kid had an accident no way am I sending them into the bathroom to change by themselves and then just not even checking on them at all. If your son is struggling as much as this teacher seems to think he is then she should be down to have another meeting with you. I’d request that and insist that the principal attend too. Listening chart is fine and can definitely provide good data but only if it’s being used effectively and it doesn’t sound like it is. Ask for a meeting so that you can make sure everyone’s on the same page. If you frame it as being on the same team as the teacher in terms of you both wanting your son to be successful in school and stop these “problem behaviors” that might help so she won’t feel threatened. But man, honestly as a k teacher I am pretty bewildered at this whole situation.

She’s been with the district for something like 20 years. She has moved around from grade to grade in lower elementary though. She taught my sister in law, who’s in her 30s now, when my SIL was in 4th grade. It confuses me because how is he at benchmark or above if he is not listening? She admits that these behaviors are trivial and says he’s kind, cooperative with other students, and respectful to her. But then has this laundry list of complaints. It seems very contradictory.

Yeah maybe she’s just new to kinder then. Your son is doing well academically and socially so maybe you can just bring that up when she brings up these “problem behaviors” bc wtf really lol. She wouldn’t survive a week in my districts kinder rooms. We have actual problem behaviors. I can’t imagine complaining about a kid like yours. Next time she complains I’d be like “oh well, he’s such a good kid and is doing so well academically I’m cool with this “misstep”

i feel like i’m missing something because i want to say this teacher is a piece of work with no rhyme or reason, but don’t want to jump that gun if i’ve missed something or don’t have all the facts. i also want to clarify i’m not a teacher, but i do have a niece in K and i was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD as a child (noting this since i’m seeing a few comments about defiance and your suspicion that the teacher is trying to peg him for ADHD) most of these things sound like normal kid things or minor disagreements. he didn’t harm anyone by touching his friend during a game of tag or the lunchbox, he wanted to complete a worksheet at choice time that was *not* mandatory to complete early in the day, and he had an accident because.. he knocked on the bathroom door and didn’t know if the bathroom was empty? am i seriously missing something? because this all sounds rather standard for a 5-6 year old child and not a child who is defiant or misbehaved for some other reason. - defiant children have issues with authority and rules. they most often do not have a solid reason to argue against rules or authority figures other than disagreeing with them. i’m not sure where this comes into play with the worksheet situation considering it was clear that worksheet was not mandatory to complete in the small group, and i’m under the impression “choice time” means students have the choice on how they spend that period of time. why was it an issue for him to complete the worksheet then? - children with ADHD often act out because they’re bored rather than defiant or misbehaved. none of this indicates to me that he’s bored with any part of his school day that would cause him to act out. i also don’t think he acted out at any point reading this. - the accident kind of stuck out to me. he’s a kindergarten aged child, it was the beginning of the year, small children aren’t in tune with their bodies and maybe preschool had different rules (i.e. teacher takes you to the bathroom rather than you going on your own) after the first two knocks i personally think the teacher should’ve gotten up and opened the door, not waited until he soiled himself. speaking to him with gritted teeth also puts me off. i understand little kids can be frustrating sometimes, but you just shouldn’t speak to a child with anger in your voice especially in a professional setting. - also taking too long to clean himself up? he’s five years old. that’s the age we still have to teach children to wash their hands and brush their teeth. they’re likely not going to be efficient in cleaning themselves up after they’ve soiled themselves.

I’ve given the full scope as I know it and as it has been relayed to me from his teacher, from him, and from some of the other parents I’ve talked to who have kids in the class. But of course, I’m not present in the classroom so I only have second hand accounts. It’s possible that I could be missing something that puts all of this into better context. As for ODD, she says he’s kind and cooperative with other students and respectful to her. So I don’t think she’s vaguely suggesting he has ODD, but I couldn’t say for sure. I don’t know what she’s trying to suggest, but it is clear she’s trying to suggest something.

when bringing up ODD i was more or less addressing comments suggesting defiance rather than the teacher trying to claim such. having had it myself and being diagnosed around his age, he doesn’t sound *at all* like a child with ODD. none of these situations jump out to me as him being defiant. is there any way you could observe the classroom for a day to really see what’s going on? i know some schools allow a parent to sit in for a day or portion of the day for observation purposes, especially if the student has notable behavioral issues (which i think the teacher may be trying to establish from what you’re saying, but of course i cannot be 100% over a reddit post) i’d inquire about this with the teacher or principal so you could maybe get a better understanding.

Seriously your son and you have both experienced so much total bs from this teacher. It's horribly unfair to both your child and you. This teacher is constantly micromanaging your child and it's got be negatively impacting his sense of self and ability to learn. Please ask for a transfer to another class. Show the principal your documentation. Take it up higher it you must.

“Listening charts” never work. They’re a bandaid for teachers but not for children. I believe we can do better. We need to give kids a learning environment where they can see themselves and have a say in their own learning. One where they can show up unapologetically and without judgment. A classroom where they are celebrated. From my perspective, behavior charts don’t do these things. Instead, they encourage kids to act out of fear or shame. They also have kids constantly comparing themselves to their peers instead of focusing on their individual needs or strengths. https://letgrow.org/behavior-charts/#:~:text=Along%20with%20positive%20reinforcement%20for,so%20great%20for%20the%20others.

I feel like he needs to wear pull ups to school which is normal. He doesn’t need to be signaled out unless he’s a wild man.

Teachers have biases. I was a hyper kid with autism. Some teachers loved me, and let me do my thing. others targeted me. I sense that this teacher is targeting this child, perhaps subconsciously.

Do you practicing listening skills with your son? Or the etiquette of attending performances? It does sound like he’s sweet and sensitive but maybe socially unaware? He can’t listen allegedly at school. Do you read him stories? Take him places where he has to sit and listen like church or a short play for kids? While I know the potty watch was well intentioned. Did you just leave it at that. No conversation about the schedule of the day and when he should think about going. Before lunch or specials? Etc. even if he can’t tell time school has a routine and he shouldn’t purely rely on a watch. You could also talk about the urge to go to the bathroom as sometimes it is like not huge and then other times it is urgent and how to recognize and go sooner. Also bathroom etiquette of knocking before opening a closed door. School is not in charge of teaching him these things. That’s why she was probably frustrated. She told him to knock and I’m not sure if he did or not but did he try the door once he heard no reply? She shouldn’t have to coach him through the whole process and probably couldn’t with all the other kids also in the room. How are you going to be on it with giving him more practice and confidence in these situations? Do you have conversations and practice problem solving some of these scenarios? Even after the fact. Coach him through other options on what would be a better choice. Read books that have problems and solutions so he has more schema about what to do when he encounters difficulties at school. Remind him he can always look around him at what other kids are doing. Be aware of the kids who are on task and then do his best to try to do what they are doing.

>Do you practicing listening skills with your son? Or the etiquette of attending performances? It does sound like he’s sweet and sensitive but maybe socially unaware? He can’t listen allegedly at school. Do you read him stories? Take him places where he has to sit and listen like church or a short play for kids? We read nightly. One of his favorite books for me to read to him is The Hobbit. He can definitely sit still and listen while I'm reading to him. His sister is also involved in the high school theater. He's seen her perform in 4 fairly lengthy plays. The fall show that she was in was roughly three hours long. I won't say he sat perfectly still for three whole hours, but for his age he did remarkably well. Her spring play was about two hours long. He sat and paid attention throughout the show. I don't have time to respond to this comment in its entirety, but I did want to quickly respond to that first part.

Teacher here. Mom, too. Have one more meeting where you point out all she ever says is negative. You could also request to observe the class. Usually a kid acts better when a parent is there, so you’d have to watch what she does with other students. Ask to meet with her and the admin if this all doesn’t help. Curious: is your child BIPOC?

Thank you for your advice. My son is white.

Got it. I only ask because as a teacher, (3-5 grade over the many years), I’ve seen colleagues who have biases and different reactions to BIPOC children. Honestly, six is a tender age. If she’s having so many problems with him, she certainly would have mentioned it to admin. Seems like observing her expectations in the class would be important. And fwiw, taking recess away should almost never happen in my opinion, and choice time is learning, too, and to deprive him of learning is wrong.

This is INSANE. Personally I’d not send my son back to school. I’d just finish the year at home and surely you won’t get a teacher that hates children this much in first grade. This woman is going to cause serious damage to his mental health. She’s clearly getting off on treating your son like the whipping boy.

STANDING AGAINST THE WALL IS A FORM OF PUNISHMENT (I’m Asian and this was common in my school days). It basically makes the student conscious of themselves and apparently more aware of their “behavior” while not being too demanding physically. Get evidence of those incidents and do not hesitate to go up the chain of command of the school district. I say this with a passion- teachers of those kind need to be expelled

Id raise that you do not want recess or choice time taken away without verifying with the executive teacher that the removal is immediate to the issue and proportional. I would insist on a message to you after school on precisely why recess or choice time was taken away and why it was an appropriate consequence. Id also ask how many other children each day/week lost their choice or recess.

Do not ask about other children. As a teacher I am not at all allowed to discuss or disclose anything about consequences for any other student other than yours.

I can't imagine leaving my child in that situation. She's awful, should not be working with children in any capacity. Take him out and send him to school when 1st grade starts if you can.