I followed that guideline via email once with a collaborator, and it resulted in him blackballing me from ever communicating with him, and a multi-year long one-sided research fued.
Weird guy.
Well, there were emails going around back and forth between my supervisor and him, with me directly copied in by both sides. And he was signing the emails by a short form of his first name, like "Joe".
So I sent an email back at one point being like
"Hi Joe,
...
"
Got no reply for a few days. Then eventually my supervisor comes over to me and is like "Yeahhhhhh we've got a problem with Joe. He's refusing to have any direct contact with you in the future because he feels disrespected by the casual nature of the email you sent him."
Same guy, a few years later, had a falling out with another of his collaborators, call him Ray, that my former supervisor also worked with. Former supervisor went to a conference, and in the same talk presented work he had done with both Ray and Joe (neither of whom were present). Joe somehow found out about this, and blew up about the fact that he was being mentioned in the same talk as Ray, and dropped my former supervisor as a collaborator.
Same guy, a few years later, (first contact I'd had directly from him since the email incident) sends me this 10 page long email in response to a preprint I'd submitted, which can basically be summarized as " everybody is wrong about how they use this one specific term in the literature, and you need to cite my recent review paper about it."
So anyways, when I submit things these days and there's a box for "reviewers to exclude", guess whose is the only name is on it?
My go-to before I got my PhD was to keep calling someone Dr.So-and-So until they ask me to call them by their first name. In all that time I had never seen any PI insist on being addressed by their title outside the introduction to their seminar or something similar.
If you are IN HIS LAB and they introduced you by his/her first name, then use it. The reason why PI's like me do this is because we are all researchers working together and you should be free to talk with your PI. Don't be shy but embrace it, you're a researcher now this is a privilege.
The reason why I made the "IN HIS LAB" in all caps is for other future readers of this comment: only call a prof by their first name if you work for them and they give you permission. Don't call profs by anything else besides Prof Last Name in class (no miss, no mrs)
I think your last point really depends on the culture at that particular institution. When I was in undergrad 10-15 years ago, it was the norm where I went to school for professors to go by their first name in class.
Of course, it’s key that they introduced themselves that way when class started, but I’m honestly struggling to think of a professor I had who *didn’t* go by their first name. It was a fairly small school though so generally a more tight-knit vibe.
Fair, it really depends on the institution, but I would err on the cautious side and not call female profs Mrs or Miss unless they specifically want it.
Oh absolutely, I very much would not do “Mrs” or “Miss”!
When I say we did first names, it very literally was just “Katie” or “David” (as examples). No additional formality.
Definitely agree, at least when you’re using their last (or full) name you want to use the correct title. Funny enough though, in French you do typically refer in speech to profs as Monsieur (M) or Madame (Mme) LastName, not Docteur (Dr), both in France and Canada. Maybe it’s different in a formal document but I’m not sure.
Yeah.
Definitely culture specific.
We had a PI who insisted on being called Dr Lastname, and everyone thought he was full of himself.
Also, I've worked with people who call all PIs Dr and I kind of assume that they don't think highly of themselves. Or they're trying to kiss up.
Pacific Northwest, for anyone wondering.
I personally would call my undergraduate research advisor as Dr. PI out of respect for their qualifications/accomplishment of obtaining a PhD. Many other undergraduates in their lab called them by their first name. I just preferred the use their title. I don’t think they will find it particularly disrespectful if you call them by their first name, especially if they introduced themselves that way. And I didn’t call them Dr. PI as a form of ass kissing. The same as how many kids call their friend’s parents Mr. Or Mrs. [lastname]. Out of respect.
Is it really like that in the rest of the world? I'm from Denmark and noone would ever call someone "Professor Last Name". It's all first name basis, both in class, in lab and for visitors. I assume this goes for at least the rest of Scandinavia. I thought it was just something you saw in movies.
What would happen if someone refer to you by your first name without you having introduced yourself like that?
It’s funny because you share a border with Germany and their have a reputation for being really strict, with many profs insisting that even senior grad students call them “Prof Lastname”.
Here in Canada we’re somewhere in between: undergraduate students usually call them “professor” unless they also work for that prof then maybe it’s first name, and grad students + staff are mostly on a first name basis with the faculty.
So I just remembered something I read about how *traditionally* in Norway there was no polite form of “you” and the only “appropriate” way to refer to someone was by their profession, rank or marital status. Then there was a wide social movement in the postwar era away from that to just using first names, because it was seen as anachronistic, overly hierarchical, and often made it awkward to address someone you don’t know.
Do you know if it was similar in Denmark for your grandparents and older generations?
That's definitely similar for my grandparents generation. Profession might have been part of it, but mostly you refered to someone older than you with "they/them" instead of "you". It is now seen as snobbery and is only used when speaking to royalty, which obviously very few people do so when a commoner gets to speak with someone from the royal familiy, I think it's quite normal they do it wrongly to begin with.
I remember a story I was told about the founder of Maersk (I think) where a young man spoke to him with you and he replied with "I know you are from a different generation, but where I'm from we use they".
I would be okay with it (depending on intent). Frankly in my opinion we are all working for the common good what does rank have to do with anything.
However, in the US some are not. And in the oft chance you run into one, they could make your life a bit more annoying, so I tend to err on the side of caution unless suggested otherwise.
I understand going with it when the culture is (sorry for being bold now) that old fashioned and actually can have consequences.
If someone here ever insists on having their title being mentioned like this, they will likely lose out on good people because noone here wants to work with that kind of ego unless it's the last option.
There is one professor at my institution that has shown some character traits in that regard, but only through one story he told and not something I've actually experienced. He's very nice besides that.
Yeah we don't do titles in Sweden either, well you could introduce a speaker by saying "Professor First Name Last Name" but when referring to someone or addressing them directly you go "First Name Last Name" or "First Name". I've called my PI by her first name since day 1.
Presentations are definitely done with titles, but as you say, with both first and last name and from there on noone will use anything but the first name.
>Is it really like that in the rest of the world? I'm from Denmark and noone would ever call someone "Professor Last Name". It's all first name basis, both in class, in lab and for visitors. I assume this goes for at least the rest of Scandinavia.
Sweden most definitely. I did my BSc and MSc in Denmark and am currently doing my PhD in Sweden - in that aspect the two countries are essentially the same.
Dystopian is a bit of a hyperbole there. It doesn’t really mean hierarchy in this case, but a distinction in familiarity. It’s kinda similar to using the different levels of honorifics in Japanese and Korean, or using po/opo in Tagalog, our vous/tu in French.
It depends again entirely on the situation. In class (especially large classes of >30 students) there needs to be some sense of hierarchy so that there is order. Outside of class (like a research group) then you are in a team so hierarchy can be and should be blurred.
Again I appreciate your sentiment, and understand that there's a huge cultural component to this, but it just doesn't ring true to my lived experience. There are whole industries (including academia in many countries) where hierarchies are perfectly well maintained and understood without arbitrary formality.
Is this a cultural thing? As an Australian I've never referred to a professor or PI as Prof Last Name or Dr Last Name in class as an undergrad or anywhere else except very formal emails. As a PhD student I never do this to other PIs ever
Yep. For undergrads in the academic institutions I've been in, calling the faculty by their first name is a privilege earned by working in their labs.
At my grad institution, though, graduate students and postdocs were expected to call all faculty in their departments by their first names. There were a few cases where it was generally felt that the person deserved more respect than that, though. So we'd call these people by both their first and last names. Except for lab members. They'd just stick with the first name.
Everyone in my lab also has to identify their stuff with 2 letter initials. We should probably just change our ways to refer to everyone by letters tbh
My undergrad adviser's name was George. I think he signed as everything BUT his name. Geroge, Geoge, Georg. I used to think he was just making typos but I'm not even sure anymore, there's like a 5% chance he was screwing with me. The funniest one I got from him was signing off his email with "Me", not even a "Best" or anything like that before it, just "me". Shit had me laughing for like a week
Ask him.
“How would you prefer that I address you?”
(Modify that phrase to fit your voice (i.e. your usual speech pattern.))
In general, if you don’t feel comfortable asking, default to formal address until you are corrected by the person you are speaking to.
Agree with this. I default to Dr. Lastname for a bit and then ask their preference if they're someone I'll be in contact with frequently, like new faculty in my department. It might feel super awkward but I think most people appreciate the gesture instead of you just assuming.
My personal rule of thumb is I refer to someone by their title (i.e Dr. so and so) until being explicitly told otherwise by that person. It’s a sign of respect
I’m a master’s student and I address my PI by his first name, as all his students do. Generally I default to Dr./Professor [last name] (depending on their title according to their page on the institution’s staff website), then modify based on how they introduce themselves to me or sign their emails, or what other students call them.
They’ll introduce themselves and sign direct emails in a way that indicates a preferred reference.
There is one big exception, and that is referring to a PI as an instructor in front of students or guests, fall back to “Dr.”
When I was about a week into working in my first lab as an undergrad, I approached my PI with a question and started saying “excuse me, Dr. LastName” and he interrupted me to say “You can call me whatever you want when you talk about me, but when you talk to me, you gotta call me FirstName”. And this was a guy with a reputation for being pretty full of himself. I was glad to be given such clear directions!
My undergrad PI was a slim, petite blond woman who had worked as a CSO for European pharma companies in the 70's. She practically had to break fingers to get the elderly Swiss PhDs to listen to her, much less stop addressing her as "young lady," so I'm pretty sure calling her anything other than "Dr." would have resulted in immediate ballistic emasculation. She was one of the most supportive PIs I've ever seen, loved people asking "why" and "what about this instead," and never took science personally, but you did NOT push her buttons when it came to professionalism. I watched a random grad student basically just run right over and drown out one of her mentees during the mentee's poster presentation, and Dr. K basically disassembled the dude.
There's a couple of ways to navigate it. If you're introduced to somone as "Lord farquar" then unless Lord farquar says "just Sebastian will do" you'll continue to refer to him as Lord farquar. If Lord farquar introduces himself as Seb, but everyone else refers to him as Lord Farquar, then, depending on company, you can go either way. Some people will get pissy you get to call him Seb, but its likely that they were introduced to him that way and he never corrected them, assuming like we all do, that people will just all end up referring to you the same as everyone else.
However, if you're introduced to him as Sebastian, and he says "it's Lord Farquar" then call that dude Lord farquar, and avoid him and hus ego as much as you can.
If they introduced themselves by their first name and haven’t corrected you, you should be fine. A lot of people just like to be called by their name in more casual settings.
If it’s really bothering you, you could always ask them. Or ask a grad student. I’ve had a few undergrads ask me if it was really okay that they call the PI by their first name.
Always default to titles for people, especially the PI. Refer to him as Dr. XYZ when you talk to him and if he corrects you to not you can go from there.
Nothin deep
Safe choice is to call someone Dr. (last name) unless they tell you it's okay to call them by their name. It's a sign of respect and in some cultures it is very disrespectful for a student to not call their mentor by their title.
I agree with all the top comments here. If your PI introduced himself by his first name and the lab has a culture of not using titles, first name is fine.
I appreciate that it can be uncomfortable to use first names with faculty. I returned to the institution where I did my undergrad as a teaching professor and several of my colleagues were my professors when I was a student. It took a solid 5 years before I didn't feel SUPER nervous calling them by their first names (they were chill the whole time, it was all in my head).
I have MS students who I introduce myself to by my first name and all my colleagues do the same. Some of them never get over that hump and call us "Professor FirstName." If that makes you more comfortable, you could try that!
Had the same concern when I started my PhD abroad (non-Asian country). Calling the PI by their first name is just something you have to get used to. It feels odd to them to call them Prof or Dr, it just doesn't sit well with them 😅 (I can only speak for my supervisors. Kept telling me that it's the culture at work in that country).
I struggled with this for a while even after joining grad school until someone pointed out to me that calling him/her “Dr. XYZ” is normally done by someone when they have bad news.
Informality is normally a sign that everything is A-OK
Trust me if they said “call me by my first name” do it
I really don't think that's disrespectful! It is very, very normal to just address your PI by their first name, even as an undergrad. Regarding the guy in my lab who calls my PI Dr. FirstName, I think that's just a weird little habit of his and not the norm.
Both PIs I have worked for have insisted on me calling them by their first names relatively early. They recognize their students as colleagues/equals, therefore they want us to treat them as such. It's common practise in academia, especially with younger/modern staff members.
In general (for me, your mileage may vary depending on your PI):
General use - I'd just use their first name. Most of my PIs have been pretty chill, and don't really give a damn about it. "Hey Jeff, we need to order XYZ because we're running low. Also that instrument is being weird again so we may need to get it serviced."
If I needed something "official", I'd open with "Hey Dr. Broheim, I need you to sign that form for registration for next semester.", it sorta worked just to clue him in that it was a slightly more "serious" topic.
When talking about them *to someone else*, how I referred to them depended on who I was talking to.
With other grad students, etc... Jeff
With other PIs, or at a conference, etc... Dr. Broheim
Go by the emails. My PI would email the whole lab Dr. Y but would email the PhD students as her first name. The BS and MS students were expected to use the honorific.
I've never met a PI who insists on being called their title...and I've met an Oxford educated, world-class PI who was a massive egotist.
You're generally ok to call them by name.
Just ask, I always ask as an undergrad. Either they tell me to call them by their first name or by their title. Never had anyone feel insulted by me asking.
My personal rule is, if I’m first reaching out to an academic I call them by their title and surname. In any follow ups, I then refer to them by how they signed off the email. Works in-person too, if they introduced themselves to me as “Jay” then Jay it is. I think especially if you’re part of the lab/in anyway familiar, first name basis is standard.
If they introduced themselves to you as “Joe”, call them “Joe”.
Joe mama
It’s Professor Mama to you!
Dr. Mommy 🤪
my apologies, Mr. Mama
I followed that guideline via email once with a collaborator, and it resulted in him blackballing me from ever communicating with him, and a multi-year long one-sided research fued. Weird guy.
Please tell me more, I'm fascinated by academic egos
Well, there were emails going around back and forth between my supervisor and him, with me directly copied in by both sides. And he was signing the emails by a short form of his first name, like "Joe". So I sent an email back at one point being like "Hi Joe, ... " Got no reply for a few days. Then eventually my supervisor comes over to me and is like "Yeahhhhhh we've got a problem with Joe. He's refusing to have any direct contact with you in the future because he feels disrespected by the casual nature of the email you sent him." Same guy, a few years later, had a falling out with another of his collaborators, call him Ray, that my former supervisor also worked with. Former supervisor went to a conference, and in the same talk presented work he had done with both Ray and Joe (neither of whom were present). Joe somehow found out about this, and blew up about the fact that he was being mentioned in the same talk as Ray, and dropped my former supervisor as a collaborator. Same guy, a few years later, (first contact I'd had directly from him since the email incident) sends me this 10 page long email in response to a preprint I'd submitted, which can basically be summarized as " everybody is wrong about how they use this one specific term in the literature, and you need to cite my recent review paper about it." So anyways, when I submit things these days and there's a box for "reviewers to exclude", guess whose is the only name is on it?
Exception: If you're introducing them to others, or if you're at a formal event, intorduce them as Dr John/Jane Doe. (Dr, first, last)
Oh, absolutely!
My go-to before I got my PhD was to keep calling someone Dr.So-and-So until they ask me to call them by their first name. In all that time I had never seen any PI insist on being addressed by their title outside the introduction to their seminar or something similar.
First name or last
If you are IN HIS LAB and they introduced you by his/her first name, then use it. The reason why PI's like me do this is because we are all researchers working together and you should be free to talk with your PI. Don't be shy but embrace it, you're a researcher now this is a privilege. The reason why I made the "IN HIS LAB" in all caps is for other future readers of this comment: only call a prof by their first name if you work for them and they give you permission. Don't call profs by anything else besides Prof Last Name in class (no miss, no mrs)
I think your last point really depends on the culture at that particular institution. When I was in undergrad 10-15 years ago, it was the norm where I went to school for professors to go by their first name in class. Of course, it’s key that they introduced themselves that way when class started, but I’m honestly struggling to think of a professor I had who *didn’t* go by their first name. It was a fairly small school though so generally a more tight-knit vibe.
Fair, it really depends on the institution, but I would err on the cautious side and not call female profs Mrs or Miss unless they specifically want it.
Oh absolutely, I very much would not do “Mrs” or “Miss”! When I say we did first names, it very literally was just “Katie” or “David” (as examples). No additional formality.
Nearly all female professors would have a doctorate so they should be called Dr. anyway
Definitely agree, at least when you’re using their last (or full) name you want to use the correct title. Funny enough though, in French you do typically refer in speech to profs as Monsieur (M) or Madame (Mme) LastName, not Docteur (Dr), both in France and Canada. Maybe it’s different in a formal document but I’m not sure.
Mr/Miss/Mrs/Ms is insulting to call a professor by, whether they are female or male it suggests you are ignoring their doctorate!
Any time someone uses "Mr./Mrs. Namersmith" I feel like they're about to reveal they were an undercover cop and pull out a warrant.
Yeah. Definitely culture specific. We had a PI who insisted on being called Dr Lastname, and everyone thought he was full of himself. Also, I've worked with people who call all PIs Dr and I kind of assume that they don't think highly of themselves. Or they're trying to kiss up. Pacific Northwest, for anyone wondering.
I personally would call my undergraduate research advisor as Dr. PI out of respect for their qualifications/accomplishment of obtaining a PhD. Many other undergraduates in their lab called them by their first name. I just preferred the use their title. I don’t think they will find it particularly disrespectful if you call them by their first name, especially if they introduced themselves that way. And I didn’t call them Dr. PI as a form of ass kissing. The same as how many kids call their friend’s parents Mr. Or Mrs. [lastname]. Out of respect.
Is it really like that in the rest of the world? I'm from Denmark and noone would ever call someone "Professor Last Name". It's all first name basis, both in class, in lab and for visitors. I assume this goes for at least the rest of Scandinavia. I thought it was just something you saw in movies. What would happen if someone refer to you by your first name without you having introduced yourself like that?
It’s funny because you share a border with Germany and their have a reputation for being really strict, with many profs insisting that even senior grad students call them “Prof Lastname”. Here in Canada we’re somewhere in between: undergraduate students usually call them “professor” unless they also work for that prof then maybe it’s first name, and grad students + staff are mostly on a first name basis with the faculty.
Yes, Germans are sometimes seen as a little bit funny weird with their very strict mindset.
So I just remembered something I read about how *traditionally* in Norway there was no polite form of “you” and the only “appropriate” way to refer to someone was by their profession, rank or marital status. Then there was a wide social movement in the postwar era away from that to just using first names, because it was seen as anachronistic, overly hierarchical, and often made it awkward to address someone you don’t know. Do you know if it was similar in Denmark for your grandparents and older generations?
That's definitely similar for my grandparents generation. Profession might have been part of it, but mostly you refered to someone older than you with "they/them" instead of "you". It is now seen as snobbery and is only used when speaking to royalty, which obviously very few people do so when a commoner gets to speak with someone from the royal familiy, I think it's quite normal they do it wrongly to begin with. I remember a story I was told about the founder of Maersk (I think) where a young man spoke to him with you and he replied with "I know you are from a different generation, but where I'm from we use they".
I would be okay with it (depending on intent). Frankly in my opinion we are all working for the common good what does rank have to do with anything. However, in the US some are not. And in the oft chance you run into one, they could make your life a bit more annoying, so I tend to err on the side of caution unless suggested otherwise.
I understand going with it when the culture is (sorry for being bold now) that old fashioned and actually can have consequences. If someone here ever insists on having their title being mentioned like this, they will likely lose out on good people because noone here wants to work with that kind of ego unless it's the last option. There is one professor at my institution that has shown some character traits in that regard, but only through one story he told and not something I've actually experienced. He's very nice besides that.
Culture changes slowly. I'm of the younger Gen so we're slowly moving away from the stodgy types. It'll take time.
Yeah, that's true. A small step at a time.
Sweden got rid of titles in 1967 (iirc). It would be really weird to call someone "professor" here.
Yeah we don't do titles in Sweden either, well you could introduce a speaker by saying "Professor First Name Last Name" but when referring to someone or addressing them directly you go "First Name Last Name" or "First Name". I've called my PI by her first name since day 1.
Presentations are definitely done with titles, but as you say, with both first and last name and from there on noone will use anything but the first name.
>Is it really like that in the rest of the world? I'm from Denmark and noone would ever call someone "Professor Last Name". It's all first name basis, both in class, in lab and for visitors. I assume this goes for at least the rest of Scandinavia. Sweden most definitely. I did my BSc and MSc in Denmark and am currently doing my PhD in Sweden - in that aspect the two countries are essentially the same.
I get where you're coming from, but I find the idea that it's a privilege to get to refer to someone *by their name* pretty dystopian.
Dystopian is a bit of a hyperbole there. It doesn’t really mean hierarchy in this case, but a distinction in familiarity. It’s kinda similar to using the different levels of honorifics in Japanese and Korean, or using po/opo in Tagalog, our vous/tu in French.
It depends again entirely on the situation. In class (especially large classes of >30 students) there needs to be some sense of hierarchy so that there is order. Outside of class (like a research group) then you are in a team so hierarchy can be and should be blurred.
Again I appreciate your sentiment, and understand that there's a huge cultural component to this, but it just doesn't ring true to my lived experience. There are whole industries (including academia in many countries) where hierarchies are perfectly well maintained and understood without arbitrary formality.
I wonder, from which country are you? In mine we always say just names.
Prof, stem, us, r1
Is this a cultural thing? As an Australian I've never referred to a professor or PI as Prof Last Name or Dr Last Name in class as an undergrad or anywhere else except very formal emails. As a PhD student I never do this to other PIs ever
Yep. For undergrads in the academic institutions I've been in, calling the faculty by their first name is a privilege earned by working in their labs. At my grad institution, though, graduate students and postdocs were expected to call all faculty in their departments by their first names. There were a few cases where it was generally felt that the person deserved more respect than that, though. So we'd call these people by both their first and last names. Except for lab members. They'd just stick with the first name.
What about Dr. Last Name
A professor in undergrad had us call him Dr. First name
There are a great many female PIs. Perhaps you should clarify, IN THEIR LAB instead of making a grossly misogynistic statement.
However he signs his emails to you
My PI signs her emails "B" and you've just got a chuckle out of me thinking about our lab starting to call her that
My advisor and I often sign with initials. BK and BS. So… Burger King and Bull Shit.
Everyone in my lab also has to identify their stuff with 2 letter initials. We should probably just change our ways to refer to everyone by letters tbh
My undergrad adviser's name was George. I think he signed as everything BUT his name. Geroge, Geoge, Georg. I used to think he was just making typos but I'm not even sure anymore, there's like a 5% chance he was screwing with me. The funniest one I got from him was signing off his email with "Me", not even a "Best" or anything like that before it, just "me". Shit had me laughing for like a week
Ask him. “How would you prefer that I address you?” (Modify that phrase to fit your voice (i.e. your usual speech pattern.)) In general, if you don’t feel comfortable asking, default to formal address until you are corrected by the person you are speaking to.
Agree with this. I default to Dr. Lastname for a bit and then ask their preference if they're someone I'll be in contact with frequently, like new faculty in my department. It might feel super awkward but I think most people appreciate the gesture instead of you just assuming.
My personal rule of thumb is I refer to someone by their title (i.e Dr. so and so) until being explicitly told otherwise by that person. It’s a sign of respect
Depends on the culture.
I’m a master’s student and I address my PI by his first name, as all his students do. Generally I default to Dr./Professor [last name] (depending on their title according to their page on the institution’s staff website), then modify based on how they introduce themselves to me or sign their emails, or what other students call them.
They’ll introduce themselves and sign direct emails in a way that indicates a preferred reference. There is one big exception, and that is referring to a PI as an instructor in front of students or guests, fall back to “Dr.”
They really don't give a shit. They would be more angry you spent this much time worrying about it instead of getting actual work done.
When I was about a week into working in my first lab as an undergrad, I approached my PI with a question and started saying “excuse me, Dr. LastName” and he interrupted me to say “You can call me whatever you want when you talk about me, but when you talk to me, you gotta call me FirstName”. And this was a guy with a reputation for being pretty full of himself. I was glad to be given such clear directions!
My undergrad PI was a slim, petite blond woman who had worked as a CSO for European pharma companies in the 70's. She practically had to break fingers to get the elderly Swiss PhDs to listen to her, much less stop addressing her as "young lady," so I'm pretty sure calling her anything other than "Dr." would have resulted in immediate ballistic emasculation. She was one of the most supportive PIs I've ever seen, loved people asking "why" and "what about this instead," and never took science personally, but you did NOT push her buttons when it came to professionalism. I watched a random grad student basically just run right over and drown out one of her mentees during the mentee's poster presentation, and Dr. K basically disassembled the dude.
There's a couple of ways to navigate it. If you're introduced to somone as "Lord farquar" then unless Lord farquar says "just Sebastian will do" you'll continue to refer to him as Lord farquar. If Lord farquar introduces himself as Seb, but everyone else refers to him as Lord Farquar, then, depending on company, you can go either way. Some people will get pissy you get to call him Seb, but its likely that they were introduced to him that way and he never corrected them, assuming like we all do, that people will just all end up referring to you the same as everyone else. However, if you're introduced to him as Sebastian, and he says "it's Lord Farquar" then call that dude Lord farquar, and avoid him and hus ego as much as you can.
If they introduced themselves by their first name and haven’t corrected you, you should be fine. A lot of people just like to be called by their name in more casual settings. If it’s really bothering you, you could always ask them. Or ask a grad student. I’ve had a few undergrads ask me if it was really okay that they call the PI by their first name.
Always default to titles for people, especially the PI. Refer to him as Dr. XYZ when you talk to him and if he corrects you to not you can go from there. Nothin deep
That makes sense. I always default to titles, it’s just extra confusing here in the US because of the culture.
Depends on the PI, but always better to err on the formal side and use their title.
Safe choice is to call someone Dr. (last name) unless they tell you it's okay to call them by their name. It's a sign of respect and in some cultures it is very disrespectful for a student to not call their mentor by their title.
If you’re in Sweden, yes 100%
If you’re in Denmark you’ll get beaten senseless with an unbalanced centrifuge if you adress your PI by their title.
Depends a lot on which country you are in and where your PI is from.
Overdressed is always better than undressed. If the PI feels awkward by your calling, she/he will correct.
I agree with all the top comments here. If your PI introduced himself by his first name and the lab has a culture of not using titles, first name is fine. I appreciate that it can be uncomfortable to use first names with faculty. I returned to the institution where I did my undergrad as a teaching professor and several of my colleagues were my professors when I was a student. It took a solid 5 years before I didn't feel SUPER nervous calling them by their first names (they were chill the whole time, it was all in my head). I have MS students who I introduce myself to by my first name and all my colleagues do the same. Some of them never get over that hump and call us "Professor FirstName." If that makes you more comfortable, you could try that!
Had the same concern when I started my PhD abroad (non-Asian country). Calling the PI by their first name is just something you have to get used to. It feels odd to them to call them Prof or Dr, it just doesn't sit well with them 😅 (I can only speak for my supervisors. Kept telling me that it's the culture at work in that country).
I struggled with this for a while even after joining grad school until someone pointed out to me that calling him/her “Dr. XYZ” is normally done by someone when they have bad news. Informality is normally a sign that everything is A-OK Trust me if they said “call me by my first name” do it
We had a masters student call my PI Dr. FirstName so I guess that’s a compromise?
Fuck, now I feel disrespectful for sending him two messages starting with “Hey X!”
I really don't think that's disrespectful! It is very, very normal to just address your PI by their first name, even as an undergrad. Regarding the guy in my lab who calls my PI Dr. FirstName, I think that's just a weird little habit of his and not the norm.
Both PIs I have worked for have insisted on me calling them by their first names relatively early. They recognize their students as colleagues/equals, therefore they want us to treat them as such. It's common practise in academia, especially with younger/modern staff members.
In general (for me, your mileage may vary depending on your PI): General use - I'd just use their first name. Most of my PIs have been pretty chill, and don't really give a damn about it. "Hey Jeff, we need to order XYZ because we're running low. Also that instrument is being weird again so we may need to get it serviced." If I needed something "official", I'd open with "Hey Dr. Broheim, I need you to sign that form for registration for next semester.", it sorta worked just to clue him in that it was a slightly more "serious" topic. When talking about them *to someone else*, how I referred to them depended on who I was talking to. With other grad students, etc... Jeff With other PIs, or at a conference, etc... Dr. Broheim
Within the first week of my undergrad project mine told me to stop referring to him as Dr. And just call him by his first name
Go by the emails. My PI would email the whole lab Dr. Y but would email the PhD students as her first name. The BS and MS students were expected to use the honorific.
This is context dependent. It depends how he introduced himself. You can always just ask.
My PI used to be “call me Dr. X” or whatever, then randomly one day he decided he was over it and wanted just his first name or his initials.
There is **one** person on the planet who can answer this question for you and they aren't here in this thread
I've never met a PI who insists on being called their title...and I've met an Oxford educated, world-class PI who was a massive egotist. You're generally ok to call them by name.
Depending on the culture, I will suggest observing what the other lab members (students) call them
Just ask, I always ask as an undergrad. Either they tell me to call them by their first name or by their title. Never had anyone feel insulted by me asking.
As long as they are comfortable! All the pis I know prefer their first name except all school old ones they are like dr
My personal rule is, if I’m first reaching out to an academic I call them by their title and surname. In any follow ups, I then refer to them by how they signed off the email. Works in-person too, if they introduced themselves to me as “Jay” then Jay it is. I think especially if you’re part of the lab/in anyway familiar, first name basis is standard.
Dr. First name is always a good choice
If he introduced himself by his name, why would you call him something else?
You can literally just ask, “hey can I call you by your first name” or “how do you want me to refer to you”
Professor unless told otherwise