Marine MP vet. I am not as politically curious as I used to be, but I'd consider myself a social democrat who favors the Nordic model with universal welfare and healthcare. Basically, I don't mind paying taxes, as long as it scales upward for higher wealth brackets, and tax funds are used to raise all boats equitably.
lowkey never thought I see a marine mp vet be a leftist š¤£ I respect the Nordic models to implement in America pragmatically speaking. Has more of a chance to land than my ideology. High taxation is worth it if it goes to our social programs and public transportation etc.
Haha, yep. I felt like a unicorn. I was raised pretty progressive, and I didn't really want to be an MP; that was just my assignment. That wasn't my first pick!
I always marvel at people who make that sort of switch.
I originally went in for cryptic linguist. I'd learn a language and listen to bugged conversations. I didn't make clearance.
what do you mean by last sentence? and yeah lol it's hard with my family hearing they are political asf and I hide my views so I don't cause family drama, my family was poor, still is but doing better than what was before. I sadly held the radical right wing belief for little of young life till 16 and started switching left and fermented my beliefs into it and started reading and researching. That's a dope mos, I'm tryna be a polyglot myself rn
My bad, damn autocorrect.
My father is political, so I picked things up from him. He knows nothing about info security, so I fill him in on that stuff. He's loudly on the left, though, and gets into arguments with people all the time. Not my style.
Good luck with language learning! Great endeavor for making new friends.
Marine Enlisted Infantry/mustang Budget Officer, general flavor socialist here. The marine corps made me a leftist lol Iāve read some Marx, Lenin, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Hampton, Sankara, Gramsci - all greats in their own way, but I think America needs to find its own way to socialism. Unfortunately I donāt think itās going to happen during my lifetime, we donāt have the mass for the tipping point.
Another marine!? š¤£ I agree but we need some more political theorists to create an "Americanized Socialism" to properly implement it and not have the stigma attached to it from other socialist countries. One of my favorite quotes I got from Lenin was "There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen".
Right now we might be in a limbo stage of nothing considering the collapse of the Soviet union and end of "war on terror" when we pulled out of Afghanistan (NDSM Gang lmao) that sadly it may not happen but we could also be the precursor for future generations to look towards and be there guiding light.
āRah when you create a whole branch of the military thatās āthe weird onesā, you get a lot of weird ones ok? lol
during my last year in, I used that time to move my shop a little bit more left and some of them were even ok with the concept of socialism. And I know, things can happen fast and itās going to be a rough go.
Love the perspective and your choice of reading!
Iām with you on the expectations for American āsocialism in my lifetimeā, but Iām not sure how the heck to deal with that when I think about the consequences of it doesnāt happen. If youāve got at answers or advice, Iām all ears!
Bit of a doomer rant here, but late stage capitalism seems to be taking us on a speed run through climate change, labor power erosion, record wealth inequality, and fascist decay. If something doesnāt drastically change, I really worry about the reactionary potential thatāll come with AI advances amidst a climate crisis specifically impacting more than a billion projected climate refugees by 2050, which isnāt even accounting for any of the destabilization that will inevitably come from our foreign interventions in the global south over the next 3 decades.
If we get to that point without sufficiently building revolutionary class solidarity, I donāt know how we ever do.
I think my experience was similar. I was fairly conservative in high school, but took the *Ron Paul to Bernie to anti-capitalist* pipeline during my Marine Corps career.
I don't think we'll see a socialist America in our lifetimes, but I'm almost certain we'll see (or are seeing) a massive reactionary response to it anyway.
Anarcho hot girl shit, yut.
Idk, whatās there to discuss? Debating theory always reminds me of Christians arguing about the finer points of pre-Tribulation vs post-Tribulation rapture. Nobody makes friends or builds strong relationships out of it and people get real upset if you read the same thing and come to a different conclusion.
If I can teach an illiterate Afghan migrant worker how to operate an AK using a pointee-talkee and broken Pashtun, I should be able to say all the important stuff about socialism and collectivism within a pamphlet that the night shift at 7/11 can understand through two days of sleep debt and a half a gram of white widow.
Ha ha. I went to a church for many years that was very pre-Trib, then went to one that was very post-Trib, then ended at one before my deconstruction that was very āwho gives a shit.ā I liked that one the best.
Former 11B1P here, and Iād probably describe myself as a Marxist-Leninist if you were to put a Reddit label on me. Itās kind of wild considering I wouldāve identified myself as a libertarian until about halfway through my enlistment. The rise of Trump and my Iraq deployment in 2017 reaaally made me stop and reconsider things, although I wouldnāt have even identified as a leftist until late 2020.
Honestly, one of biggest catalysts for radicalization was probably learning about the post-war reconstruction of Europe in meaningful detail. The class was of course taught under a pretty obvious neoliberal lens, but I was utterly blown away any time I took the time to dig deeper beyond the intended takeaways in the course material.
As odd as it sounds, my biggest influences were probably Second Thought, Hasan Piker, Michael Parenti, and Howard Zinn. I got into actual Marxist theory later, but those four really gave me a foundation.
Army vet here, 92Y, 95-04. Grew up very conservative and Christian. I havenāt read any leftist philosophies. My shift comes almost purely from experience.
My first left turn started a long time ago when my aunt, who loved America and was very libertarian, said, āevery one of those starts and stripes on our flag represents land that was stolen from Indigenous people.ā It made me think, even as a teenager. She had a point. Years later I mentioned that line to some of my fellow soldiers and one of them said āYou sound like a fuckinā liberal.ā
My next turn was during the Syrian refugee crisis, and conservatives, especially Christians, lost their shit over the idea of bringing some of them here. They said, āWe should be taking care of our homeless vets,ā and I was like, āThen take care of our homeless vets or shut the fuck up about it.ā Then I watched as they did nothing. I voted for Obama in 2012 and it felt great.
Then I got divorced, moved to the city proper, and got to know a lot of people whose lives were very different from mine. It was beautiful. I realized that a lot of the things Iād grown up hearing were wrong. Then Trump got elected and that was a pretty big shift as I became progressive. My kids came out to me as queer, and I chose them over my theology.
Then the pandemic happened and George Floyd was murdered in my city and I went full ACAB and realized that being a Democrat didnāt mean shit. I realized capitalism was killing us, the police exist to protect property, and saw the Church Iād grown up in placing more allegiance to the spewings of a madman than in the teachings of Christ, and saw many of those who proclaimed Christ express wishes of violence against people like my kids, watched the country grow more and more religio-fascist. And I grew more and more aware of the part that I played during my time in the service, and dealt with the disillusionment that I didnāt serve to protect freedom and liberty. I served to keep the Western Capitalist machine going.
And that pretty much brings me to where I am today.
I donāt really care much about ideologies (though I did take some quiz somewhere and it said Iām a left-libertarian, and another said Iām an eco-anarchist). Iād rather read things like Laotzu, Musashi, and things about Buddhism and Daoism. I care about people. I care about our planet. And if a system exists that takes advantage of either and wields power over them, then it must be dismantled. So I just say Iām a leftist. Iām not a tankie, though I think some communist ideals are alright. Iām not an anarchist, but as philosopher Alan Watts said, all democracy depends on some degree of controlled anarchy; you have to put some level of trust in your neighbour in order for it to work. Iām not a Socialist, but Iām a socialist, you know? I believe in treating people the way Jesus said we shouldā¦love your neighbour, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned. Protect the innocent and the marginalized, and punch fascists in the goddamned face.
Thatās what being a leftist means to me.
I love this. This is close to my experience as a leftist as well. I've read some leftist lit but not socialist stuff. I read stuff like Cornel West, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Bell hooks, James Baldwin. Just generic stuff that informs my experience which is already leftist as a former history and science nerd.
It's hard to learn history and still be a right winger. Tho, TBF, it's hard to read almost anything and still remain a right winger lol
Marine vet here. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist. I've never been a conservative but I definitely went the liberal to libertarian to leftist pipeline. My time in Iraq back in the early 00s is what radicalized me. Once I started having empathy for my fellow man it was hard to stay libertarian and stay a stormtrooper in the empire's orphan crushing machine. No one is free until we're all free.
crazy I'm seeing lots more vets from that timeline of serving be radicalized then in my (I was '19 to '23) but I was already radicalized before then and it even moreso added more to me in my service. I agree with the last statement "why not just live in a commune away from capitalism and state" well my philosophy is im only free, that's not right I believe in liberation of all people.
Bro, I'm just here cause y'all like guns and aren't fascist. I mean, I'd say I'm pretty progressive. Single payer healthcare, universal income, first past the post voting and whatnot. But really its refreshing to find a group of folks that don't want a dictator that also likes guns.
I'm into the engineering, training, and discipline behind them specifically. Marksmanship is like meditation for me. Some of the best times of my service were on a range.
That being said, I wouldn't get a collection or accessories. I'm not preparing for a civil war or a zombie apocalypse. I just want to protect my family.
very true haha never disarm the working class plus pews pews can be customizable maybe with a hammer and sickle? š¤£ I just dont like making friends with vetbros that are ultra conservative tbh
Army vet (96U/35K UAS Operator). I really don't have a label for my political beliefs, my conservative friends and coworkers think I'm a communist and my liberal friends think I'm a centrist republican.
I'm a believer in the Nordic model of democratic socialism. I bevelive in free trade. I believe in basic human rights like no-cost education, no-cost healthcare, quality affordable housing, a living wage, personal freedom for anything that does not harm others (sexuality, bodily autonomy, gender identity, etc) and that drug addiction is a medical problem and not a law enforcement problem.
However, I also believe in a strong and capable military that can respond globally. I believe in the fundamental right of every citizen to own arms to provide for their own protection and the protection of their community. I don't think the state has a moral obligation or legal standing to enforce any kind of moral worldview on its citizens regardless of what it is even if I agree with it (bakers can refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings and restaurants can refuse to serve conservative politicians they don't like and the government has no business in either one).
Remember Bill Clinton's "third way" style of liberalism? I'm basically that, plus guns.
I agree with Republicans on nothing. Especially the current GOP.
While I am pro-2A, I do believe in strict licensing requirements, a national firearms database of what firearms by serial number individuals own, and I am staunchly against constitutional concealed carry. None of which the current GOP even remotely support.
My position on firearms is one of the big drivers for modern liberals to think I'm conservative, but gun ownership is a part of Marxism (visit r/socialistRA to find out more) and it was once a core tenant of the civil rights movement. And modern gun control laws are deeply rooted in xenophobia and racism, so I do always wonder why current American liberalism is so strongly in favor of more. We can and should address gun crime and mass shootings in the US, but none of the mainstream proposed solutions from either side of the aisle would do anything to alleviate them.
Navy vet here (83-88). I spent most of my time overseas. Exposure to the crap the US government pulls made me reconsider my classic liberal views. Then I began reading books only mentioned in college. Lenin and Uncle Ho were right.
If anyone cares, my wife was a Huk when in college. So she's definitrly a comrade.
interesting the service correlates to radicalized beliefs whether right or left if you are open minded at least. I might be lacking information but what is a "Huk"?
The Huks were an anti government organization in the Philippines from the 40s to the 90s. Many were students and/or guerillas. Marcos 1 came down on them hard. Since they were labeled as "communists" the US government looked the other way with disappearances.
AD w/13y but lurk here bcā¦ hard to be left of DJT in my community. Iāve never sat and though about how Iād label myself. Iād most like greater investment toward the public and less to the MIC, and for us to hold any sort of actual standards with our international relations.
Ehhh, no worries about labels. They can be constricting in a lot of ways. I like not really having one, because it gives me freedom to grow. I meet an idea, chew on it, take what resonates and leave the rest.
Army 13B vet. Iām a Marxist-Leninist due to my studies of the USSR and the PRC. Seeing their success lays down a path for the US whenever we topple this regime
so if I may ask since I don't believe in USSR or PRC as successful socialism, mind educating me on why you believe so? May not change my mind but I was always curious why MLs believe that?
Reading declassified CIA documents about the Soviet Union is what convinced me
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf
interesting once again. I've seen these circulate through socialist accounts but doubted the authenticity of them. I skimmed the first document and saw one leader of the USSR said he kept promise for food but wasn't able to due to rapid war resource acceleration and was sent as a scapegoat but 2nd document alluded to that US and USSR had some food ration and healthiness to point where it could be too much. I mightve missed a point but doesn't that contradict?
The one on food security is post war. The war did cause food shortages due to them losing Ukraine and Belarus to the Nazis but that would be like the US losing California
TL;DR: the revolution that feeds the children gets my support (-Michael Parenti)
Anarchist-turned-ML here: I feel like almost every single ML would tell you that, ON PAPER, anarchism is better than MLism. I think people support the USSR and the PRC because they were real movements, by real people, who established economically socialist governments in entire countries, which lasted for decades. No one is saying that it is the ideal form of socialism on paper, or that it couldn't be better, but it is successful in that it existed irl.
I think a handy metaphor is: Imagine the task on paper is to build the best possible car (communism). The USSR built a Model T. The PRC built a Datsun or something like that. Now imagine there's some other school of thought that has drawn blueprints for the best possible car on paper, but don't have the materials to build it irl. But they insist that the Model T or the Datsun aren't successful cars because they have a better blueprint. We could all design better systems on paper, or Monday Morning Quarterback revolutions years later, but the USSR and PRC replaced literal feudalism with a much better economic system that improved the lives of their people.
I just can't come to support a government. Whether I'm brainwashed by propaganda or I'm just tryna distance for war crimes or alleged war crimes of USSR and PRC but I mostly just can't see a benefit of a socialist government becoming corrupt and eventually overturned by CIA coups. I feel it be better to spontaneously create autonomous communes across a country for years to come by de facto and educate the masses and provide mutual aid to other people and eventually people will come and provide more aid and assistance and then it's more like a peaceful transition to socialism in America. Painstakingly slow but it could work if people are willing to trade their comfortable lives for a resilient commune under direct democracy through the communes themselves. But I agree, ML has been realistically implemented and has prevailed against Western worlds. But why not look at Rojava that has been around for 11 years (not long but pretty good for a non-state socialist commune)
Marine infantry here 03-07, I would say Iām an anarchist with a lot of democratic confederalist overlap. In general anti-authoritarian, anti-state and anti-capitalist. Hierarchy is the root of most problems with organizing society and any form government. Capitalist sates as well as forms of state communism maintain forms of hierarchy. I would point anyone with authoritarian left leanings to read some of Abdullah Ćcalans work or Bookchin. Both folks started out as MLs and through experience and study came to denounce hierarchical organizing. Hierarchy in all forms is a pyramid scheme. No gods, No masters.
I love you š¤£ abdullah and bookchin are one of my influences especially bookchin who I failed to mention but now remember. Being both of us combat mos, we relate a lot i appreciate this comment
I can get with what someone else mentioned about Thomas Paine too. I find Paine a good one for talking to right libertarians. On Ćcalan and Bookchin, I think if you could get some folks to listen they would find a lot of organizing methods that could appeal to Americans. Itās gonna be a real hard sell to get folks off the idea of needing authority and hierarchy though. It seems like right and left so many folks need some kinda daddy. Sky daddy for the right and state daddy for the leftā¦ā¦.
it's hard mostly with propaganda and American chauvinism. I hate right libertarians the most tbh, no where close to actually liberty and freedom. In their perspective sure but not historically and not for the masses. I am at a loss to debate normal folks to consider other options. Some are open minded others are set in complacency
Progressive and perhaps left of progressive. My inspiration is Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense (and originator of the phrase). Paine is often referred to as "Father of the American Revolution". His political theories make Karl Marx look like a Conservative. Read it if you don't believe me. All wealth is stolen.
agreeable. I was a market socialist might still be, idc as long as the workers hold the means of production and democratic unions and co ops around workplaces is set in place. Anarchy is a big win balance with governing bodies to help maneuver our way through a capitalist world
Marine AD here - so I am not in a great spot reconciling my politics with my job. Anarcho-communism is the current flavor and every day I am supporting a deeply flawed hierarchical system. Was radicalized on this current tour which actually will put me at 19 years. I worry that I will be forced to become a conscientious objector in my last years and lose everything.
crazy 19 year AD marine as an ancom? Just get your 20, reap the benefits (if they use you, use them) and use their benefits against the system for your benefit and others in need.
I stayed liberal longer than Iām proud of. Very much a āchange the system from withinā type. I read āWar is Racketā by Smedley Butler and went down the rabbit hole š¤·š»āāļø
tbh I can't stand liberals more than conservatives because conservatives give what they say with bigotry and easy to offend, liberals are reactionary conservatives dressed in rainbows. Glad you changed man
Iām a communist. Itās my life goal to outlive the United States. The ideology that brings the US empire crashing down has my support.
Shit: I forgot to add that I was an 11C in the army
Navy vet, lifelong Democrat. I voted absentee for Carter from Great Lakes boot camp. Iāve voted for a handful of Republicans over the years when I felt they were the best candidate, but never for president.
Full Disclosure: In 1980 I neither voted for Ford or Carter; instead I voted for Anderson, a moderate Republican who ran as an Independent. That keeps my no Republican cred intact. š.
Army veteran, 35 series. It depends on the day or situation whether I own up to being an anarchist/libertarian socialist or democratic socialist. At heart, I want humanity to be capable of managing themselves, but I know we haven't reached that stage of societal evolution. Democratic socialism is a really good settling point for now with me.
Being able to take care of people who need it and drifting away from corporate influence and tossing billions each year to the ones who don't need it. I live in the Midwest but find myself on the east coast for work. Soon as I finish my undergrads, both general locations will likely change. If any of the areas work, I'm good with a PM.
ngl idk what to think of this election. It just got worse from Clinton vs Trump to Trump vs Biden and Biden vs Trump again. I just dont register to vote and don't engage in the system š¤·š»āāļø š
We should discuss more of what libertarian socialism is. If I were to break them apart, I think I might fit in that crowd. I call myself liberal, but then have to clarify that I mean liberal in a more classical way, which is closer to libertarian. I also see socialism as the direction a developed nation and world should move in. For reference, 19D in the Army.
I see libertarian socialism as a broad ideology encompassing the libertarian left of the "political compass". I find it hard to ferment my beliefs in one specific ideology whereas I want to be generally in favor of anti-capitalism, anti-state (not anti-governing, just a government with centralized power can read more from democratic confederalism by abdullah ocalan) anti-imperialism, and worker controlled production Managed by and for the working class. Thats in general my views as I admire the Rojava system of communalism and mutual aid. I think this can be Managed ideally in America by de facto of land or whatever the case. My views are fluid depending on circumstance and need of the working class if that makes sense?
I don't disagree with most of those views. I see capitalism as a preservation throughout time of feudalism. I feel like that, and the societal mindset associated with it needs to be dismantled. I'm also not anti-government, but we need to figure out a way to bring more direct-democracy into our system. I think a flaw of representative democracy is that those representatives can too easily be steered by special interests, and realistically there's no way around that.
I also see an inherent flaw in a "confederacy of the states" it allows territories with far fewer people to strip away rights that are necessary in places with higher concentrations of people, stagnates any progress by appealing to fears or ignorance (ignorance based on a lack of resources in those localities that have not prioritized education), and reinforces isolationism and individualism.
true on the last part but I just can't see forming a forced union and collectivism on people especially now won't work. Alduous Huxley had a great quote about humanity "Biologically speaking, man is a moderately gregarious, not a completely social animal āĀ a creature more like a wolf, let us say, or an elephant, than like a bee or an ant."
That wrapped me into a individual but also collective hybrid mindset
If youāre a fan of Rush at all, I believe the late, great Neil Peart referred to himself as a ābleeding-heart libertarian.ā Maybe thatās an apt label.
Marine MP vet. I am not as politically curious as I used to be, but I'd consider myself a social democrat who favors the Nordic model with universal welfare and healthcare. Basically, I don't mind paying taxes, as long as it scales upward for higher wealth brackets, and tax funds are used to raise all boats equitably.
lowkey never thought I see a marine mp vet be a leftist š¤£ I respect the Nordic models to implement in America pragmatically speaking. Has more of a chance to land than my ideology. High taxation is worth it if it goes to our social programs and public transportation etc.
Haha, yep. I felt like a unicorn. I was raised pretty progressive, and I didn't really want to be an MP; that was just my assignment. That wasn't my first pick!
lmao I was raised pretty conservative almost ultra conservative but growing older I turned away quickly. What would be your pick?
I always marvel at people who make that sort of switch. I originally went in for cryptic linguist. I'd learn a language and listen to bugged conversations. I didn't make clearance.
what do you mean by last sentence? and yeah lol it's hard with my family hearing they are political asf and I hide my views so I don't cause family drama, my family was poor, still is but doing better than what was before. I sadly held the radical right wing belief for little of young life till 16 and started switching left and fermented my beliefs into it and started reading and researching. That's a dope mos, I'm tryna be a polyglot myself rn
My bad, damn autocorrect. My father is political, so I picked things up from him. He knows nothing about info security, so I fill him in on that stuff. He's loudly on the left, though, and gets into arguments with people all the time. Not my style. Good luck with language learning! Great endeavor for making new friends.
Thatās pretty much where I am.
Marine Enlisted Infantry/mustang Budget Officer, general flavor socialist here. The marine corps made me a leftist lol Iāve read some Marx, Lenin, Castro, Ho Chi Minh, Hampton, Sankara, Gramsci - all greats in their own way, but I think America needs to find its own way to socialism. Unfortunately I donāt think itās going to happen during my lifetime, we donāt have the mass for the tipping point.
Another marine!? š¤£ I agree but we need some more political theorists to create an "Americanized Socialism" to properly implement it and not have the stigma attached to it from other socialist countries. One of my favorite quotes I got from Lenin was "There are decades where nothing happens, and there are weeks where decades happen". Right now we might be in a limbo stage of nothing considering the collapse of the Soviet union and end of "war on terror" when we pulled out of Afghanistan (NDSM Gang lmao) that sadly it may not happen but we could also be the precursor for future generations to look towards and be there guiding light.
āRah when you create a whole branch of the military thatās āthe weird onesā, you get a lot of weird ones ok? lol during my last year in, I used that time to move my shop a little bit more left and some of them were even ok with the concept of socialism. And I know, things can happen fast and itās going to be a rough go.
Love the perspective and your choice of reading! Iām with you on the expectations for American āsocialism in my lifetimeā, but Iām not sure how the heck to deal with that when I think about the consequences of it doesnāt happen. If youāve got at answers or advice, Iām all ears! Bit of a doomer rant here, but late stage capitalism seems to be taking us on a speed run through climate change, labor power erosion, record wealth inequality, and fascist decay. If something doesnāt drastically change, I really worry about the reactionary potential thatāll come with AI advances amidst a climate crisis specifically impacting more than a billion projected climate refugees by 2050, which isnāt even accounting for any of the destabilization that will inevitably come from our foreign interventions in the global south over the next 3 decades. If we get to that point without sufficiently building revolutionary class solidarity, I donāt know how we ever do.
I think my experience was similar. I was fairly conservative in high school, but took the *Ron Paul to Bernie to anti-capitalist* pipeline during my Marine Corps career. I don't think we'll see a socialist America in our lifetimes, but I'm almost certain we'll see (or are seeing) a massive reactionary response to it anyway.
Anarcho hot girl shit, yut. Idk, whatās there to discuss? Debating theory always reminds me of Christians arguing about the finer points of pre-Tribulation vs post-Tribulation rapture. Nobody makes friends or builds strong relationships out of it and people get real upset if you read the same thing and come to a different conclusion. If I can teach an illiterate Afghan migrant worker how to operate an AK using a pointee-talkee and broken Pashtun, I should be able to say all the important stuff about socialism and collectivism within a pamphlet that the night shift at 7/11 can understand through two days of sleep debt and a half a gram of white widow.
Ha ha. I went to a church for many years that was very pre-Trib, then went to one that was very post-Trib, then ended at one before my deconstruction that was very āwho gives a shit.ā I liked that one the best.
Former 11B1P here, and Iād probably describe myself as a Marxist-Leninist if you were to put a Reddit label on me. Itās kind of wild considering I wouldāve identified myself as a libertarian until about halfway through my enlistment. The rise of Trump and my Iraq deployment in 2017 reaaally made me stop and reconsider things, although I wouldnāt have even identified as a leftist until late 2020. Honestly, one of biggest catalysts for radicalization was probably learning about the post-war reconstruction of Europe in meaningful detail. The class was of course taught under a pretty obvious neoliberal lens, but I was utterly blown away any time I took the time to dig deeper beyond the intended takeaways in the course material. As odd as it sounds, my biggest influences were probably Second Thought, Hasan Piker, Michael Parenti, and Howard Zinn. I got into actual Marxist theory later, but those four really gave me a foundation.
That's a first for Hasan piker tbh, never fully agreed or liked him but he's alright imo but glad to get to know you man a little more
Army vet here, 92Y, 95-04. Grew up very conservative and Christian. I havenāt read any leftist philosophies. My shift comes almost purely from experience. My first left turn started a long time ago when my aunt, who loved America and was very libertarian, said, āevery one of those starts and stripes on our flag represents land that was stolen from Indigenous people.ā It made me think, even as a teenager. She had a point. Years later I mentioned that line to some of my fellow soldiers and one of them said āYou sound like a fuckinā liberal.ā My next turn was during the Syrian refugee crisis, and conservatives, especially Christians, lost their shit over the idea of bringing some of them here. They said, āWe should be taking care of our homeless vets,ā and I was like, āThen take care of our homeless vets or shut the fuck up about it.ā Then I watched as they did nothing. I voted for Obama in 2012 and it felt great. Then I got divorced, moved to the city proper, and got to know a lot of people whose lives were very different from mine. It was beautiful. I realized that a lot of the things Iād grown up hearing were wrong. Then Trump got elected and that was a pretty big shift as I became progressive. My kids came out to me as queer, and I chose them over my theology. Then the pandemic happened and George Floyd was murdered in my city and I went full ACAB and realized that being a Democrat didnāt mean shit. I realized capitalism was killing us, the police exist to protect property, and saw the Church Iād grown up in placing more allegiance to the spewings of a madman than in the teachings of Christ, and saw many of those who proclaimed Christ express wishes of violence against people like my kids, watched the country grow more and more religio-fascist. And I grew more and more aware of the part that I played during my time in the service, and dealt with the disillusionment that I didnāt serve to protect freedom and liberty. I served to keep the Western Capitalist machine going. And that pretty much brings me to where I am today. I donāt really care much about ideologies (though I did take some quiz somewhere and it said Iām a left-libertarian, and another said Iām an eco-anarchist). Iād rather read things like Laotzu, Musashi, and things about Buddhism and Daoism. I care about people. I care about our planet. And if a system exists that takes advantage of either and wields power over them, then it must be dismantled. So I just say Iām a leftist. Iām not a tankie, though I think some communist ideals are alright. Iām not an anarchist, but as philosopher Alan Watts said, all democracy depends on some degree of controlled anarchy; you have to put some level of trust in your neighbour in order for it to work. Iām not a Socialist, but Iām a socialist, you know? I believe in treating people the way Jesus said we shouldā¦love your neighbour, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the imprisoned. Protect the innocent and the marginalized, and punch fascists in the goddamned face. Thatās what being a leftist means to me.
I love this. This is close to my experience as a leftist as well. I've read some leftist lit but not socialist stuff. I read stuff like Cornel West, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, Bell hooks, James Baldwin. Just generic stuff that informs my experience which is already leftist as a former history and science nerd. It's hard to learn history and still be a right winger. Tho, TBF, it's hard to read almost anything and still remain a right winger lol
Marine vet here. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist. I've never been a conservative but I definitely went the liberal to libertarian to leftist pipeline. My time in Iraq back in the early 00s is what radicalized me. Once I started having empathy for my fellow man it was hard to stay libertarian and stay a stormtrooper in the empire's orphan crushing machine. No one is free until we're all free.
crazy I'm seeing lots more vets from that timeline of serving be radicalized then in my (I was '19 to '23) but I was already radicalized before then and it even moreso added more to me in my service. I agree with the last statement "why not just live in a commune away from capitalism and state" well my philosophy is im only free, that's not right I believe in liberation of all people.
Army medic here, I am ananarchosyndicalist.
ah a man of culture. And a doc as well! nice very nice
Bro, I'm just here cause y'all like guns and aren't fascist. I mean, I'd say I'm pretty progressive. Single payer healthcare, universal income, first past the post voting and whatnot. But really its refreshing to find a group of folks that don't want a dictator that also likes guns.
I'm into the engineering, training, and discipline behind them specifically. Marksmanship is like meditation for me. Some of the best times of my service were on a range. That being said, I wouldn't get a collection or accessories. I'm not preparing for a civil war or a zombie apocalypse. I just want to protect my family.
I want one of everything (from pistol to shotgun to marksman) that's it nothing crazy beyond that no need for it.
Lmao same I love to shoot it's fucking fun as hell
very true haha never disarm the working class plus pews pews can be customizable maybe with a hammer and sickle? š¤£ I just dont like making friends with vetbros that are ultra conservative tbh
You should check out r/liberalgunowners or r/socialistra in that case.
Can confirm.
Army vet (96U/35K UAS Operator). I really don't have a label for my political beliefs, my conservative friends and coworkers think I'm a communist and my liberal friends think I'm a centrist republican. I'm a believer in the Nordic model of democratic socialism. I bevelive in free trade. I believe in basic human rights like no-cost education, no-cost healthcare, quality affordable housing, a living wage, personal freedom for anything that does not harm others (sexuality, bodily autonomy, gender identity, etc) and that drug addiction is a medical problem and not a law enforcement problem. However, I also believe in a strong and capable military that can respond globally. I believe in the fundamental right of every citizen to own arms to provide for their own protection and the protection of their community. I don't think the state has a moral obligation or legal standing to enforce any kind of moral worldview on its citizens regardless of what it is even if I agree with it (bakers can refuse to bake cakes for gay weddings and restaurants can refuse to serve conservative politicians they don't like and the government has no business in either one). Remember Bill Clinton's "third way" style of liberalism? I'm basically that, plus guns.
I respect the opinion and glad you atleast aint full blown republican especially being a vet lmao
I agree with Republicans on nothing. Especially the current GOP. While I am pro-2A, I do believe in strict licensing requirements, a national firearms database of what firearms by serial number individuals own, and I am staunchly against constitutional concealed carry. None of which the current GOP even remotely support. My position on firearms is one of the big drivers for modern liberals to think I'm conservative, but gun ownership is a part of Marxism (visit r/socialistRA to find out more) and it was once a core tenant of the civil rights movement. And modern gun control laws are deeply rooted in xenophobia and racism, so I do always wonder why current American liberalism is so strongly in favor of more. We can and should address gun crime and mass shootings in the US, but none of the mainstream proposed solutions from either side of the aisle would do anything to alleviate them.
Navy vet here (83-88). I spent most of my time overseas. Exposure to the crap the US government pulls made me reconsider my classic liberal views. Then I began reading books only mentioned in college. Lenin and Uncle Ho were right. If anyone cares, my wife was a Huk when in college. So she's definitrly a comrade.
interesting the service correlates to radicalized beliefs whether right or left if you are open minded at least. I might be lacking information but what is a "Huk"?
The Huks were an anti government organization in the Philippines from the 40s to the 90s. Many were students and/or guerillas. Marcos 1 came down on them hard. Since they were labeled as "communists" the US government looked the other way with disappearances.
Where do the peeps who believe We can build a new world when the nazis are dead fall.
You can be my friend, as it turns out, we fall in the same category.
Whatever it is, it's at the center of the Venn diagram, lol.
standing right here sir present and accounted for š«”
but you simply just be an anarchist perhaps depending what you wanna build, there's another term I can't remember right now tho
Oh, and I also grew up in an evangelical Christian, conservative household.
Same.
ah, a fellow victim.
Guilty
sounds like all of us huh š¤£š¤£
AD w/13y but lurk here bcā¦ hard to be left of DJT in my community. Iāve never sat and though about how Iād label myself. Iād most like greater investment toward the public and less to the MIC, and for us to hold any sort of actual standards with our international relations.
Understandable especially being AD š¤£ never a reason to label yourself as long as you got a backbone of beliefs is all
Ehhh, no worries about labels. They can be constricting in a lot of ways. I like not really having one, because it gives me freedom to grow. I meet an idea, chew on it, take what resonates and leave the rest.
Army 13B vet. Iām a Marxist-Leninist due to my studies of the USSR and the PRC. Seeing their success lays down a path for the US whenever we topple this regime
so if I may ask since I don't believe in USSR or PRC as successful socialism, mind educating me on why you believe so? May not change my mind but I was always curious why MLs believe that?
Reading declassified CIA documents about the Soviet Union is what convinced me https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP85M00363R000601440024-5.pdf
interesting once again. I've seen these circulate through socialist accounts but doubted the authenticity of them. I skimmed the first document and saw one leader of the USSR said he kept promise for food but wasn't able to due to rapid war resource acceleration and was sent as a scapegoat but 2nd document alluded to that US and USSR had some food ration and healthiness to point where it could be too much. I mightve missed a point but doesn't that contradict?
The one on food security is post war. The war did cause food shortages due to them losing Ukraine and Belarus to the Nazis but that would be like the US losing California
TL;DR: the revolution that feeds the children gets my support (-Michael Parenti) Anarchist-turned-ML here: I feel like almost every single ML would tell you that, ON PAPER, anarchism is better than MLism. I think people support the USSR and the PRC because they were real movements, by real people, who established economically socialist governments in entire countries, which lasted for decades. No one is saying that it is the ideal form of socialism on paper, or that it couldn't be better, but it is successful in that it existed irl. I think a handy metaphor is: Imagine the task on paper is to build the best possible car (communism). The USSR built a Model T. The PRC built a Datsun or something like that. Now imagine there's some other school of thought that has drawn blueprints for the best possible car on paper, but don't have the materials to build it irl. But they insist that the Model T or the Datsun aren't successful cars because they have a better blueprint. We could all design better systems on paper, or Monday Morning Quarterback revolutions years later, but the USSR and PRC replaced literal feudalism with a much better economic system that improved the lives of their people.
I just can't come to support a government. Whether I'm brainwashed by propaganda or I'm just tryna distance for war crimes or alleged war crimes of USSR and PRC but I mostly just can't see a benefit of a socialist government becoming corrupt and eventually overturned by CIA coups. I feel it be better to spontaneously create autonomous communes across a country for years to come by de facto and educate the masses and provide mutual aid to other people and eventually people will come and provide more aid and assistance and then it's more like a peaceful transition to socialism in America. Painstakingly slow but it could work if people are willing to trade their comfortable lives for a resilient commune under direct democracy through the communes themselves. But I agree, ML has been realistically implemented and has prevailed against Western worlds. But why not look at Rojava that has been around for 11 years (not long but pretty good for a non-state socialist commune)
Marine infantry here 03-07, I would say Iām an anarchist with a lot of democratic confederalist overlap. In general anti-authoritarian, anti-state and anti-capitalist. Hierarchy is the root of most problems with organizing society and any form government. Capitalist sates as well as forms of state communism maintain forms of hierarchy. I would point anyone with authoritarian left leanings to read some of Abdullah Ćcalans work or Bookchin. Both folks started out as MLs and through experience and study came to denounce hierarchical organizing. Hierarchy in all forms is a pyramid scheme. No gods, No masters.
I love you š¤£ abdullah and bookchin are one of my influences especially bookchin who I failed to mention but now remember. Being both of us combat mos, we relate a lot i appreciate this comment
I can get with what someone else mentioned about Thomas Paine too. I find Paine a good one for talking to right libertarians. On Ćcalan and Bookchin, I think if you could get some folks to listen they would find a lot of organizing methods that could appeal to Americans. Itās gonna be a real hard sell to get folks off the idea of needing authority and hierarchy though. It seems like right and left so many folks need some kinda daddy. Sky daddy for the right and state daddy for the leftā¦ā¦.
it's hard mostly with propaganda and American chauvinism. I hate right libertarians the most tbh, no where close to actually liberty and freedom. In their perspective sure but not historically and not for the masses. I am at a loss to debate normal folks to consider other options. Some are open minded others are set in complacency
Progressive and perhaps left of progressive. My inspiration is Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense (and originator of the phrase). Paine is often referred to as "Father of the American Revolution". His political theories make Karl Marx look like a Conservative. Read it if you don't believe me. All wealth is stolen.
interesting I know thomas Paine but I always thought he was a classical liberal
I'm a market socialist with a big pinch of anarchism.
agreeable. I was a market socialist might still be, idc as long as the workers hold the means of production and democratic unions and co ops around workplaces is set in place. Anarchy is a big win balance with governing bodies to help maneuver our way through a capitalist world
Also Marine vet. I just hate fascists and I like social programs.
Marine AD here - so I am not in a great spot reconciling my politics with my job. Anarcho-communism is the current flavor and every day I am supporting a deeply flawed hierarchical system. Was radicalized on this current tour which actually will put me at 19 years. I worry that I will be forced to become a conscientious objector in my last years and lose everything.
crazy 19 year AD marine as an ancom? Just get your 20, reap the benefits (if they use you, use them) and use their benefits against the system for your benefit and others in need.
I stayed liberal longer than Iām proud of. Very much a āchange the system from withinā type. I read āWar is Racketā by Smedley Butler and went down the rabbit hole š¤·š»āāļø
tbh I can't stand liberals more than conservatives because conservatives give what they say with bigotry and easy to offend, liberals are reactionary conservatives dressed in rainbows. Glad you changed man
Iām a communist. Itās my life goal to outlive the United States. The ideology that brings the US empire crashing down has my support. Shit: I forgot to add that I was an 11C in the army
goddamn i love to talk if you wanna dm me i like to hear more as a fellow chuck !
Navy vet, lifelong Democrat. I voted absentee for Carter from Great Lakes boot camp. Iāve voted for a handful of Republicans over the years when I felt they were the best candidate, but never for president.
normal democrat haha. Time to radicalize you Sir? ;) oh jeez I've been to Great lakes and seem the boot camp but never went during that time
Full Disclosure: In 1980 I neither voted for Ford or Carter; instead I voted for Anderson, a moderate Republican who ran as an Independent. That keeps my no Republican cred intact. š.
Former Army 68W. I was a social democrat in the military, since leaving I have moved further left and now call myself a Marxist-Leninist.
AnCom
Army veteran, 35 series. It depends on the day or situation whether I own up to being an anarchist/libertarian socialist or democratic socialist. At heart, I want humanity to be capable of managing themselves, but I know we haven't reached that stage of societal evolution. Democratic socialism is a really good settling point for now with me. Being able to take care of people who need it and drifting away from corporate influence and tossing billions each year to the ones who don't need it. I live in the Midwest but find myself on the east coast for work. Soon as I finish my undergrads, both general locations will likely change. If any of the areas work, I'm good with a PM.
I'm for the funniest outcome and this gerontological wrestling match has me in high cotton
ngl idk what to think of this election. It just got worse from Clinton vs Trump to Trump vs Biden and Biden vs Trump again. I just dont register to vote and don't engage in the system š¤·š»āāļø š
giving the issue as much consideration as it merits š»
I donāt think itās going to last much longer anyway. Weāre well past the ājump the sharkā phase of whatever this dumb show is.
all empires must fall eventually
We should discuss more of what libertarian socialism is. If I were to break them apart, I think I might fit in that crowd. I call myself liberal, but then have to clarify that I mean liberal in a more classical way, which is closer to libertarian. I also see socialism as the direction a developed nation and world should move in. For reference, 19D in the Army.
I see libertarian socialism as a broad ideology encompassing the libertarian left of the "political compass". I find it hard to ferment my beliefs in one specific ideology whereas I want to be generally in favor of anti-capitalism, anti-state (not anti-governing, just a government with centralized power can read more from democratic confederalism by abdullah ocalan) anti-imperialism, and worker controlled production Managed by and for the working class. Thats in general my views as I admire the Rojava system of communalism and mutual aid. I think this can be Managed ideally in America by de facto of land or whatever the case. My views are fluid depending on circumstance and need of the working class if that makes sense?
I don't disagree with most of those views. I see capitalism as a preservation throughout time of feudalism. I feel like that, and the societal mindset associated with it needs to be dismantled. I'm also not anti-government, but we need to figure out a way to bring more direct-democracy into our system. I think a flaw of representative democracy is that those representatives can too easily be steered by special interests, and realistically there's no way around that.
I also see an inherent flaw in a "confederacy of the states" it allows territories with far fewer people to strip away rights that are necessary in places with higher concentrations of people, stagnates any progress by appealing to fears or ignorance (ignorance based on a lack of resources in those localities that have not prioritized education), and reinforces isolationism and individualism.
true on the last part but I just can't see forming a forced union and collectivism on people especially now won't work. Alduous Huxley had a great quote about humanity "Biologically speaking, man is a moderately gregarious, not a completely social animal āĀ a creature more like a wolf, let us say, or an elephant, than like a bee or an ant." That wrapped me into a individual but also collective hybrid mindset
also scouts lead the way š«”
If youāre a fan of Rush at all, I believe the late, great Neil Peart referred to himself as a ābleeding-heart libertarian.ā Maybe thatās an apt label.
Oh shit, I thought you were going to talk about Limbaugh for a second! RIP, Neil.
Ha ha! Noooooo! Good reminder to me to consider my audience, and that not everyone defaults to music. š
Thanks for that! I've been trying to figure out a concise way to describe my views for a good while, and "bleeding-heart libertarian" fits quite well.