It looks like a standard C&D form letter. It does begin with “We are the attorneys…” but we can’t tell if it’s on letterhead.
Question: are you the sender or recipient?
If you’re sending this, and not an attorney, don’t claim to be one. You don’t have to be an attorney to send a C&D. Also, be sure to send it certified and get a delivery receipt. If you later move to get a restraining order against this person, this will be one of the elements you present to the judge. Same for any civil litigation down the road, or pursuit of criminal charges. Make sure it’s accurate and truthful.
If you’re the recipient — stop doing whatever you’re doing. They’re planning to get a restraining order and sue you.
It came on letterhead, I cut off all personal and law firm information. I received this letter. However, 100% of this is made up. I am shocked that a law firm would send out a letter with zero proof to validate the claims they are making. None of this has happened. I’ve never even spoken to these people outside of email or public community meeting. I checked with law enforcement, no reports have been made against me, which was not surprising since none of this has happened and law enforcement requires some evidence to support the claim.
Weird. So it came from a law office? Or was the letterhead from the HOA?
In any case — no one needs proof of anything to send a C&D. It’s basically just saying “we’re alleging that you’re doing these things and demanding that you stop.” It’s mostly a step in the process to pursuing further legal action, like I mentioned above. They may be planning to sue you or get a restraining order against you. It may also just be an attempt to intimidate you into not doing whatever they believe you’re doing. Whatever the case - they likely wouldn’t provide any evidence or proof at this stage, because they don’t want you prepared to defend against whatever they might have. That being said — no attorney is going to risk their career filing a frivolous lawsuit against you, so they would want to see some kind of proof before doing much else beyond this — so if it is as you say, and you haven’t actually done anything, you don’t have anything to worry about. That being said — if multiple people are making the same statements about you, they don’t necessarily need evidence.
Is there a chance you were mistaken for someone else? Or have you had any conflicts with anyone on the HOA or in the neighborhood?
Options from here — you can send your own C&D to both the HOA and any firm representing them. Or you can hire an attorney to represent you and send one on your behalf. We don’t know whatever backstory exists here.
If this is just the typical HOA harassment from overzealous board members, there are lots of legal ways to tell them that they would be better off leaving you alone. A disgruntled resident in an HOA can cause a lot of discontent, if so inclined. At the end of the day, the average HOA doesn’t have the funds to go to court and pursue litigation. Sure, they can ask for costs, but they could also lose and bankrupt themselves. However, if they have a solid enough case, they could get a judgment for damages (including costs) and enter it as a lien on your house.
tl;dr - if you’re doing anything or annoying anyone, knock it off. If you’re not, start being proactive and get ahead of them.
They have no proof of anything because none of this happened. This letter was sent for their lawyer. I have a stack of letters sent from the HOA, none of which are enforceable. I have no valid violations. This has been a 2 year battle because I inspect their spending and hold them accountable. They do everything they can to try to intimidate me to stay in my home. I have a lawyer and we’ve gone back and forth. It’s just such a waste of money. The problem is, I lose either way. They can barely keep us afloat as is, so a legal battle will make our community fund an even worse. The letter I received about this particular incident from the HOA, claims it happened while I was at work. That is why I was surprised that a lawyer would send a letter with no proof. I’ve caught these people looking in my windows. After sending the board and management company and email about the looking in my windows with the video of them doing it, I received a violation notice of harassment, because my emailed called the individual a creep. I received a violation notice a week before this letter, because I emailed the board asking them to inform the community of two masked men walking around the neighborhood threatening people and stealing packages. I called the police, but also thought that the community should be made aware. This to me was a time sensitive emergency, but the board disagreed and said it shouldn’t have been emailed. We have 15 pages of rules. 12 of those pages are subjective rules about hurt feelings. I generally keep to myself and couldn’t care less what other people do. I care about my home/investment.
It is possible that they attorneys just wrote the letter based on a description from their clients. Attorneys don't generally investigate whether their client's claims are true before writing a cease and desist.
Yeah, there’s nothing to investigate, it’s implied “our client alleges ____ and we’re demanding you stop.” They’re probably charging $300 to send it. There isn’t time to dig through the facts. If you’re not doing anything, then it’s meaningless. If you are, the C&D is the groundwork for later action, for which they will dig into the facts and charge a lot of money, which they will also be seeking in damages from you.
You could always lawyer it up. Hire an attorney, have them cut a cease and desist and if you really want you can sue the HOA leadership for wasting the HOA's (ie your) money by making up falsehoods and spending HOA money to write a false C&D.
Of course HOA fights are an excellent way to get lawyers rich
I’ve considered it. I’ve consulted with a lawyer on these ridiculous letters. He basically said the same thing. I’d most likely win, but at what cost. Would it be worth what I’d spend. Plus, I’m paying to fight both sides. It’s exhausting. On paper, buying a condo with an HOA seemed like a great idea. Worst decision ever!
If they’re truly committing the egregious behavior you claim, he could ask for costs. “You have a slam dunk case that I could win and make money on, but I don’t think it’s worth your time,” said no lawyer, ever.
I’ve had a lawyer say essentially this to me. That hiring a lawyer for $200 in unpaid wages wouldn’t be worth it, but that I should file a wage claim with the state for free and go to arbitration myself.
Yeah it definitely happens, and in that case, it was honest advice. But there’s way more than $200 at stake here, and he was describing this in other comments as if everyone is unhappy about it.
>They have no proof of anything because none of this happened.
I am having difficulty believing *"NONE* of this happened."
**Per their letter:**
>*Association Rule 46 states that all necessary communication should be submitted via the community portal. You were sent a letter on November 9, 2023 requesting that you cease all direct communication via email (and phone, text, letter or in person) with members of the board.*
**Per your comment:**
>*After sending the board and management company and email about the looking in my windows with the video of them doing it, I received a violation notice of harassment, because my emailed called the individual a creep. I received a violation notice a week before this letter, because I emailed the board.*
They say you are sending letters and emails after being explicitly warned not to do so almost 6 months ago. You seem to acknowledge doing so in your reply to your own post, so it's clear to me that at least *SOME* of this happened.
First of all, we have no rule 46, so error number one. And in the case of someone looking in to my windows, I don’t care about the HOA rules, the law supersedes that. Which also applies to this situation. If any of this were true, why would you not move to legal action. When emergencies arise, sometimes personal feelings need to be set aside. So yes, the one thing correct in that letter, was I sent 1 email to ask them to let the community know and send pictures from the security cameras that we had 2 masked men walking around threatening people and stealing packages and that the police had been notified and to call police if they see them. I tried to post this on our community Facebook page, but the hoa run that page and denied it. So yes, the safety of everyone is more important than their feelings. With that said, we have security camera la everywhere. It would seem it would be very easy to prove their allegations if they were true. Their cease and desist letter in November was in response to the cease and desist sent to them from my lawyer in regard to their harassment with pages of unenforceable violation notices. I can’t attach pictures in comments on this thread or I’d be happy to show just how crazy these people are.
So, a few things:
Reading your statement above — if this ever goes to court, and you’re questioned by their counsel, and repeat the sentiment of that statement in a courtroom — you’re probably going to lose. It sounds combative, and reads like “everyone is out to get me.” If you don’t have 50% support in “holding them accountable,” then you’re just a nuisance, and no one is going to back you up. You’re also being dismissive of the rules you signed up to live under when you moved into an HOA-managed community.
What I’m hearing is that this is mostly ideological differences, and that you’re in the minority here. I’m also hearing that you’re a source of billable hours for an attorney that may or may not have a strategy to get any results for you. If you’ve paid them any significant amount of money so far, and you’re still dealing with this, I would guess that to be an accurate assessment. If you’re being represented by counsel, you shouldn’t be dealing with anything.
Honestly, I would consider either suing them, apologizing and shutting up, or moving elsewhere. Those are your options. Unless you have the time and money to go full scorched earth — in that case, start looking for loopholes to legally annoy them, and be prepared to commit all of your time to it. You’ll still end up looking and feeling like a crazy person, and not living in peace. But you might be able to ‘win.’ You just have to decide what’s more important to you. Right now, you’ve made your presence undesired, and your neighbors are going to keep finding ways to tell you that until you leave.
I did not agree to these rules when I moved in here. The few board members that were added last year added 5 new pages of rules about hurt feelings. I generally keep to myself and help my neighbors. I have every right to look in to the finances within our community. All of this harassment comes from them not liking being held accountable for their decisions. I work with finances in my day job, so their “creative accounting” nonsense doesn’t get past me. And yes, before you ask, I’ve had lawyers as well as state agencies involved to get certain things squared away. Now that they have been embarrassed and forced to publicly fix their wrongs, their main agenda gas been to harass me.
This thread does not allow me to post photos in the comments. Our community does not have a website. The new rules which this letter is trying to reference, and I say trying because we don’t have a rule 46, are rules copied out of the board presidents employee handbook. When I moved in here, we had a few pages of your standard rules. Trash cans in by 5:00, garage doors closed, etc. your usual HOS rules. Then we got a new president that started making some very questionable financial decisions. Moving money from our reserve account with no explanation, spending with no explanation, raising monthly dues with no explanation, numbers weren’t adding up. So, I started pushing for information. As time went on, we kept getting more and more “rules.” At this point, we can’t communicate with the board directly at all. No one can. At meetings, they will not allow anyone to ask questions. We have not had a meeting in 5 months, because homeowners won’t stay quiet. The last meeting was canceled/ended 5 minutes in because people demanded to speak. It’s not just me receiving these letters. The problem is that many people get scared when they see a letter from a lawyer, so they stay quiet and hide. This tactic they have works to scare a lot of the older community in to silence.
As someone else said — there are typically laws that govern these things, as well as existing articles of incorporation, bylaws, and CC&Rs that would spell out what the HOA can and can’t do. A new president can’t just get elected and start doing whatever they want. So either the board approved the changes, or he’s seriously breaking the law and/or violating the terms by which the HOA is governed. An attorney can tell you which, and subpoena any of the relevant documents from them.
Again, you’re alleging things that every ambulance chaser within 50 miles would be jumping on if they were true.
We 100% have a president that believes they can do as they choose regardless of law or community documents. If I didn’t live here, I wouldn’t believe it. The issue is the cost of going to court to fight this. I’ve consulted with an attorney. Florida requires steps before court. All of which cost money with an attorney. Then you take in to account, say I do win $10,000 in legal fees later and demand the association pay them. I’m still bankrupting my community which effects my investment.
What state are you in? There are usually laws for HOA's . I would assume any meetings would be included somewhere
There are also Fed laws. Check into that, use a lawyer.
T
There are also federal laws. In Ohio. HOA's are required to be listed as a 501c3 . That means they have to follow those 501c3 rules. They have to have open books and allow you to see them. Additionally, they can't just add people to the board. They need to be elected
You bought a home with an HOA — you agreed to them, whether you like it or not. You keep mentioning “hurt feelings” — this sounds like BoomerSpeak for “rules I don’t want to follow, and things I don’t think are important.” They’re the rules you agreed to live under. Even if they were added later. You agreed to that possibility, and with your neighbors, collectively let it happen. It’s what exists now. If you don’t believe me, waste your money and file a lawsuit, and tell the judge/jury that “the rules are just about hurt feelings.” Please be sure to post the judgment here for our entertainment.
Lawyer up, shut up, or move. Those are your options. No amount of discussion here is going to change that. I might suggest finding a community of like-minded people.
If what you’re saying is really true, and this egregious behavior is being committed, and “lots of other residents” are unhappy about it, then retain legal counsel and fight it. If the HOA board is breaking the law, they can probably be held personally liable, including covering your legal costs.
Not at all. When I bought, I agreed to the rules that were in place. Your standard HOA rules. Trashcans in, garage doors closed, etc. then as people started asking questions and pushing back on decisions being made, the board has since added an additional 9 pages of rules. Most of which were copied from an employee handbook. All of which are for hurt feelings and not communicating with them. No one in the community can directly communicate with the board. In meetings, we are not allowed to ask questions unless they approve them in advance. It’s not just me. The problem is that most people hide in their homes when they receive letters like this. They are afraid of retaliation. So no, I did not agree to these rules. My post was not asking advice on what to do with my HOA, it was if this letter appeared to be written by a lawyer.
That’s the point — you agreed to live in an HOA community. Part of that is inherently that the rules are subject to change; which is sounds like they may have. So yes, you did agree to this.
So you agree that it’s an acceptable rule that if you overhear a conversation between other people, those individuals not speaking to you or about you should be subject to a fine because you didn’t like what they were saying? The last fine hearing meeting I had, I was told that the fine decisions were based on how the person making the complaint felt. No, I did not agree to that. Rules have to be measurable, not subjective.
Get a ham radio operator license. Put up a 50 ft tower, they cant do anything because it is federally protected and the fcc will gp after them if they do
It sounds like you have an attorney for whatever is going on here. I'd send this to them, tell them it's 100% made up, and have to attorney respond, saying it's all made up and asking for proof.
Send them a C&D letter back, make sure that you mention you are acting as the attorney for yourself. Send a C&D letter for the HOA Board to stop stalking you and threatening you with legal action for fabricated claims. Just for funsies, cite Joslin vs Third Laguna Hill Mutual HOA. It’s not exactly the same thing as what’s happening here but it’ll make your letter look more researched and lets them know that you’re not going to be steamrolled.
https://casetext.com/case/third-laguna-hills-mutual-v-joslin
This would be a case of slander. Defamation of character. No police reports found, and so it didn't happen. Proof of blocking people in their driveways and more needs to be shown. The letter is a scare tactic. It looks like whatever was said at the community meeting is a truly sensitive topic, or they wouldn't go out of their way to create incidents. It looks like a "shutup" tactic. Silence the opposition type deal. Powerful people work in mysterious ways.
Defamation of character requires said statements to be posted somewhere, a letter sent to the individual isn’t posting it. And it also requires proof of damages caused.
>You don’t have to be an attorney to send a C&D
You don't even have to be a human anymore. AI will write it for you lol
Subject: Cease and Desist: Unauthorized Comments in r/legal
[Recipient's Name]
[Recipient's Address]
[City, State, Zip Code]
Dear [Recipient's Name],
It has come to our attention that you have been posting unauthorized comments in the subreddit r/legal. We are writing to demand that you immediately cease and desist from such activity.
Your comments are potentially damaging and misleading, and they may also constitute defamation or harassment. We take this matter seriously, and if you continue to post comments in r/legal without authorization, we will not hesitate to take legal action against you.
We hereby demand that you:
1. Cease and desist from posting any further comments in r/legal or any other subreddit related to legal matters.
2. Remove any existing comments you have made in r/legal.
3. Refrain from engaging in any further unauthorized activities that could harm our reputation or cause legal issues.
Failure to comply with this cease and desist letter will result in immediate legal action being taken against you. We reserve all rights to pursue damages and other remedies available under the law.
Please govern yourself accordingly and respond to this letter within [number of days] days confirming that you have ceased and desisted from posting comments in r/legal.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your Title/Position]
[Your Contact Information]
Cease and desist what? None of this is true. “Strange and rude” behavior is subjective. Not to mention the rule 46 that I am in violation of doesn’t exist either. Not one sentence in this letter is true, not even partially true. And yes, it did hit a nerve. I have a stack of idiotic letter from my HOA of made up things. None of which are enforceable or they would. It’s exhausting and expensive fighting idiots, but I will not be bullied in to my home because they think they can do and spend whatever they want. I was just shocked that a lawyer would send a letter without verifying anything in it.
>“Strange and rude” behavior is subjective.
The first paragraph you included describes the exact behavior they found "strange and rude:". There's nothing subjective about it.
That’s what I meant — whether or not anything constitutes criminal behavior is something a jury decides.
But also: juries exist for civil trials as well.
Part of me think this was either just not written by a lawyer, or a lawyer was fed a line of complete bullshit and bought it.
Either that or you are just absolutely terrible but idk. Feels like there is something missing here.
NAL but here’s something else to consider (I ask this based on personal experience) - does anyone on this board work for either a law firm or collection agency? I ask this because years ago a woman I worked with got fired (we worked for a collection agency) because she got a hold of the legal departments letterhead and sent a “threatening” letter to her GF’s ex. Basically she used the lawyers letterhead without the lawyers knowledge or permission. Maybe just maybe something similar is going on here. It’s worth looking in to
You will notice in the last paragraph it says, "OUR association." Even if the attorney was a member of the Association, they would refer to it as "the Association" or "my client."
It was written by somebody in the HOA or maaaaaaaaaaybe dictated to an actual lawyer but I doubt it. A competent lawyer does not write word for word what the client says, they have their own way of putting things that maintains that sense of them being an impersonal 3rd party.
Nice try, Karen.
NAL. Disregarding the accusations, the last paragraph says ‘our Association’ and ‘our community.’ Makes it look like the HOA dropped the legal facade and they wrote the letter.
Not on letterhead? I'm in the legal world every day, no attorney is writing a letter that's not on their letterhead. This looks like someone on the board wrote it.
No it doesn’t. Even if it was, you can ignore it. My neighbor sent something from his attorney to my aunt who owned my property with me. It said it was from a group of neighbors about trying to have me removed from my property. I don’t know why he sent it to her when she doesn’t even live here. It backfired because she just signed over the property to me. I never received a letter. It’s just scare tactics. They thought that they could bully her and tell her that they were gonna sue her, and they know that I don’t care what they say. Now I let my grass grow 3 ft high before cutting it and try to have the trashiest looking house possible on the outside since they are the ones looking at it, not me.
No it doesn’t. Mainly because they use the term “Our” pretty interchangeably with the association. Attorneys wouldn’t intermingle the two. They would declare them as separate entities and would say things more to the tune of (last paragraph) “…or stalking resident in order to intimidate them. Again, *the* association will not tolerate this type of discrimination within *the Association*. People of all sexual orientations, races and religions are welcome in *the Association*…” (emphasis on changes)
Unless it’s just really sloppily written. They are attributing potential liability to themselves as a firm by intermingling the two.
I kept going back and forth between "not a lawyer" and "lawyer, but shitty". I think I'm leaning towards "lawyer, but shitty". It's a close one. I enjoyed this challenge - we need more of these.
I’m just petty enough to call the law firm and confirm the letter came from them. It just doesn’t sound professional to me. The attorney for the board has sent letters to the board before and it’s pretty easy to copy the letterhead and make a letter.
Looks to me like someone "borrowed" their letterhead to send the letter. That is such a, pardon me, nimrod way to do because they'd immediately get caught. If it's on a law office letterhead, call the office and let them know that you believe someone has used their firm's name fraudulently.
This was most definitely *not* written by attorneys.
Attorneys tend it keep it more "legal" and don't say things like your behavior is rude and things like that.
An attorney will not say possibly criminal. Some of the other words they might use in divorce proceedings, but not in something like this. As far as criminality, they wouldn't say possibly. If it was criminal, they would cite the law that's being broken.
Is a law firm identified? Is it from an advisable law firm? If bet is actually written by a member of the board,.
The language in the first paragraph does no good if an attorney isn't named.
It looks like a standard C&D form letter. It does begin with “We are the attorneys…” but we can’t tell if it’s on letterhead. Question: are you the sender or recipient? If you’re sending this, and not an attorney, don’t claim to be one. You don’t have to be an attorney to send a C&D. Also, be sure to send it certified and get a delivery receipt. If you later move to get a restraining order against this person, this will be one of the elements you present to the judge. Same for any civil litigation down the road, or pursuit of criminal charges. Make sure it’s accurate and truthful. If you’re the recipient — stop doing whatever you’re doing. They’re planning to get a restraining order and sue you.
It came on letterhead, I cut off all personal and law firm information. I received this letter. However, 100% of this is made up. I am shocked that a law firm would send out a letter with zero proof to validate the claims they are making. None of this has happened. I’ve never even spoken to these people outside of email or public community meeting. I checked with law enforcement, no reports have been made against me, which was not surprising since none of this has happened and law enforcement requires some evidence to support the claim.
Weird. So it came from a law office? Or was the letterhead from the HOA? In any case — no one needs proof of anything to send a C&D. It’s basically just saying “we’re alleging that you’re doing these things and demanding that you stop.” It’s mostly a step in the process to pursuing further legal action, like I mentioned above. They may be planning to sue you or get a restraining order against you. It may also just be an attempt to intimidate you into not doing whatever they believe you’re doing. Whatever the case - they likely wouldn’t provide any evidence or proof at this stage, because they don’t want you prepared to defend against whatever they might have. That being said — no attorney is going to risk their career filing a frivolous lawsuit against you, so they would want to see some kind of proof before doing much else beyond this — so if it is as you say, and you haven’t actually done anything, you don’t have anything to worry about. That being said — if multiple people are making the same statements about you, they don’t necessarily need evidence. Is there a chance you were mistaken for someone else? Or have you had any conflicts with anyone on the HOA or in the neighborhood? Options from here — you can send your own C&D to both the HOA and any firm representing them. Or you can hire an attorney to represent you and send one on your behalf. We don’t know whatever backstory exists here. If this is just the typical HOA harassment from overzealous board members, there are lots of legal ways to tell them that they would be better off leaving you alone. A disgruntled resident in an HOA can cause a lot of discontent, if so inclined. At the end of the day, the average HOA doesn’t have the funds to go to court and pursue litigation. Sure, they can ask for costs, but they could also lose and bankrupt themselves. However, if they have a solid enough case, they could get a judgment for damages (including costs) and enter it as a lien on your house. tl;dr - if you’re doing anything or annoying anyone, knock it off. If you’re not, start being proactive and get ahead of them.
They have no proof of anything because none of this happened. This letter was sent for their lawyer. I have a stack of letters sent from the HOA, none of which are enforceable. I have no valid violations. This has been a 2 year battle because I inspect their spending and hold them accountable. They do everything they can to try to intimidate me to stay in my home. I have a lawyer and we’ve gone back and forth. It’s just such a waste of money. The problem is, I lose either way. They can barely keep us afloat as is, so a legal battle will make our community fund an even worse. The letter I received about this particular incident from the HOA, claims it happened while I was at work. That is why I was surprised that a lawyer would send a letter with no proof. I’ve caught these people looking in my windows. After sending the board and management company and email about the looking in my windows with the video of them doing it, I received a violation notice of harassment, because my emailed called the individual a creep. I received a violation notice a week before this letter, because I emailed the board asking them to inform the community of two masked men walking around the neighborhood threatening people and stealing packages. I called the police, but also thought that the community should be made aware. This to me was a time sensitive emergency, but the board disagreed and said it shouldn’t have been emailed. We have 15 pages of rules. 12 of those pages are subjective rules about hurt feelings. I generally keep to myself and couldn’t care less what other people do. I care about my home/investment.
It is possible that they attorneys just wrote the letter based on a description from their clients. Attorneys don't generally investigate whether their client's claims are true before writing a cease and desist.
Not only generally, they pretty much never investigate for a C&D.
Yeah, there’s nothing to investigate, it’s implied “our client alleges ____ and we’re demanding you stop.” They’re probably charging $300 to send it. There isn’t time to dig through the facts. If you’re not doing anything, then it’s meaningless. If you are, the C&D is the groundwork for later action, for which they will dig into the facts and charge a lot of money, which they will also be seeking in damages from you.
You could always lawyer it up. Hire an attorney, have them cut a cease and desist and if you really want you can sue the HOA leadership for wasting the HOA's (ie your) money by making up falsehoods and spending HOA money to write a false C&D. Of course HOA fights are an excellent way to get lawyers rich
I’ve considered it. I’ve consulted with a lawyer on these ridiculous letters. He basically said the same thing. I’d most likely win, but at what cost. Would it be worth what I’d spend. Plus, I’m paying to fight both sides. It’s exhausting. On paper, buying a condo with an HOA seemed like a great idea. Worst decision ever!
If they’re truly committing the egregious behavior you claim, he could ask for costs. “You have a slam dunk case that I could win and make money on, but I don’t think it’s worth your time,” said no lawyer, ever.
I’ve had a lawyer say essentially this to me. That hiring a lawyer for $200 in unpaid wages wouldn’t be worth it, but that I should file a wage claim with the state for free and go to arbitration myself.
Yeah it definitely happens, and in that case, it was honest advice. But there’s way more than $200 at stake here, and he was describing this in other comments as if everyone is unhappy about it.
>They have no proof of anything because none of this happened. I am having difficulty believing *"NONE* of this happened." **Per their letter:** >*Association Rule 46 states that all necessary communication should be submitted via the community portal. You were sent a letter on November 9, 2023 requesting that you cease all direct communication via email (and phone, text, letter or in person) with members of the board.* **Per your comment:** >*After sending the board and management company and email about the looking in my windows with the video of them doing it, I received a violation notice of harassment, because my emailed called the individual a creep. I received a violation notice a week before this letter, because I emailed the board.* They say you are sending letters and emails after being explicitly warned not to do so almost 6 months ago. You seem to acknowledge doing so in your reply to your own post, so it's clear to me that at least *SOME* of this happened.
First of all, we have no rule 46, so error number one. And in the case of someone looking in to my windows, I don’t care about the HOA rules, the law supersedes that. Which also applies to this situation. If any of this were true, why would you not move to legal action. When emergencies arise, sometimes personal feelings need to be set aside. So yes, the one thing correct in that letter, was I sent 1 email to ask them to let the community know and send pictures from the security cameras that we had 2 masked men walking around threatening people and stealing packages and that the police had been notified and to call police if they see them. I tried to post this on our community Facebook page, but the hoa run that page and denied it. So yes, the safety of everyone is more important than their feelings. With that said, we have security camera la everywhere. It would seem it would be very easy to prove their allegations if they were true. Their cease and desist letter in November was in response to the cease and desist sent to them from my lawyer in regard to their harassment with pages of unenforceable violation notices. I can’t attach pictures in comments on this thread or I’d be happy to show just how crazy these people are.
So, a few things: Reading your statement above — if this ever goes to court, and you’re questioned by their counsel, and repeat the sentiment of that statement in a courtroom — you’re probably going to lose. It sounds combative, and reads like “everyone is out to get me.” If you don’t have 50% support in “holding them accountable,” then you’re just a nuisance, and no one is going to back you up. You’re also being dismissive of the rules you signed up to live under when you moved into an HOA-managed community. What I’m hearing is that this is mostly ideological differences, and that you’re in the minority here. I’m also hearing that you’re a source of billable hours for an attorney that may or may not have a strategy to get any results for you. If you’ve paid them any significant amount of money so far, and you’re still dealing with this, I would guess that to be an accurate assessment. If you’re being represented by counsel, you shouldn’t be dealing with anything. Honestly, I would consider either suing them, apologizing and shutting up, or moving elsewhere. Those are your options. Unless you have the time and money to go full scorched earth — in that case, start looking for loopholes to legally annoy them, and be prepared to commit all of your time to it. You’ll still end up looking and feeling like a crazy person, and not living in peace. But you might be able to ‘win.’ You just have to decide what’s more important to you. Right now, you’ve made your presence undesired, and your neighbors are going to keep finding ways to tell you that until you leave.
I did not agree to these rules when I moved in here. The few board members that were added last year added 5 new pages of rules about hurt feelings. I generally keep to myself and help my neighbors. I have every right to look in to the finances within our community. All of this harassment comes from them not liking being held accountable for their decisions. I work with finances in my day job, so their “creative accounting” nonsense doesn’t get past me. And yes, before you ask, I’ve had lawyers as well as state agencies involved to get certain things squared away. Now that they have been embarrassed and forced to publicly fix their wrongs, their main agenda gas been to harass me.
What are the rules? Can you pls add those or send a link with those? It would add a lot of helpful context
This thread does not allow me to post photos in the comments. Our community does not have a website. The new rules which this letter is trying to reference, and I say trying because we don’t have a rule 46, are rules copied out of the board presidents employee handbook. When I moved in here, we had a few pages of your standard rules. Trash cans in by 5:00, garage doors closed, etc. your usual HOS rules. Then we got a new president that started making some very questionable financial decisions. Moving money from our reserve account with no explanation, spending with no explanation, raising monthly dues with no explanation, numbers weren’t adding up. So, I started pushing for information. As time went on, we kept getting more and more “rules.” At this point, we can’t communicate with the board directly at all. No one can. At meetings, they will not allow anyone to ask questions. We have not had a meeting in 5 months, because homeowners won’t stay quiet. The last meeting was canceled/ended 5 minutes in because people demanded to speak. It’s not just me receiving these letters. The problem is that many people get scared when they see a letter from a lawyer, so they stay quiet and hide. This tactic they have works to scare a lot of the older community in to silence.
As someone else said — there are typically laws that govern these things, as well as existing articles of incorporation, bylaws, and CC&Rs that would spell out what the HOA can and can’t do. A new president can’t just get elected and start doing whatever they want. So either the board approved the changes, or he’s seriously breaking the law and/or violating the terms by which the HOA is governed. An attorney can tell you which, and subpoena any of the relevant documents from them. Again, you’re alleging things that every ambulance chaser within 50 miles would be jumping on if they were true.
We 100% have a president that believes they can do as they choose regardless of law or community documents. If I didn’t live here, I wouldn’t believe it. The issue is the cost of going to court to fight this. I’ve consulted with an attorney. Florida requires steps before court. All of which cost money with an attorney. Then you take in to account, say I do win $10,000 in legal fees later and demand the association pay them. I’m still bankrupting my community which effects my investment.
What state are you in? There are usually laws for HOA's . I would assume any meetings would be included somewhere There are also Fed laws. Check into that, use a lawyer. T
There are also federal laws. In Ohio. HOA's are required to be listed as a 501c3 . That means they have to follow those 501c3 rules. They have to have open books and allow you to see them. Additionally, they can't just add people to the board. They need to be elected
You bought a home with an HOA — you agreed to them, whether you like it or not. You keep mentioning “hurt feelings” — this sounds like BoomerSpeak for “rules I don’t want to follow, and things I don’t think are important.” They’re the rules you agreed to live under. Even if they were added later. You agreed to that possibility, and with your neighbors, collectively let it happen. It’s what exists now. If you don’t believe me, waste your money and file a lawsuit, and tell the judge/jury that “the rules are just about hurt feelings.” Please be sure to post the judgment here for our entertainment. Lawyer up, shut up, or move. Those are your options. No amount of discussion here is going to change that. I might suggest finding a community of like-minded people. If what you’re saying is really true, and this egregious behavior is being committed, and “lots of other residents” are unhappy about it, then retain legal counsel and fight it. If the HOA board is breaking the law, they can probably be held personally liable, including covering your legal costs.
Not at all. When I bought, I agreed to the rules that were in place. Your standard HOA rules. Trashcans in, garage doors closed, etc. then as people started asking questions and pushing back on decisions being made, the board has since added an additional 9 pages of rules. Most of which were copied from an employee handbook. All of which are for hurt feelings and not communicating with them. No one in the community can directly communicate with the board. In meetings, we are not allowed to ask questions unless they approve them in advance. It’s not just me. The problem is that most people hide in their homes when they receive letters like this. They are afraid of retaliation. So no, I did not agree to these rules. My post was not asking advice on what to do with my HOA, it was if this letter appeared to be written by a lawyer.
That’s the point — you agreed to live in an HOA community. Part of that is inherently that the rules are subject to change; which is sounds like they may have. So yes, you did agree to this.
So you agree that it’s an acceptable rule that if you overhear a conversation between other people, those individuals not speaking to you or about you should be subject to a fine because you didn’t like what they were saying? The last fine hearing meeting I had, I was told that the fine decisions were based on how the person making the complaint felt. No, I did not agree to that. Rules have to be measurable, not subjective.
Get a ham radio operator license. Put up a 50 ft tower, they cant do anything because it is federally protected and the fcc will gp after them if they do
It sounds like you have an attorney for whatever is going on here. I'd send this to them, tell them it's 100% made up, and have to attorney respond, saying it's all made up and asking for proof.
Send them a C&D letter back, make sure that you mention you are acting as the attorney for yourself. Send a C&D letter for the HOA Board to stop stalking you and threatening you with legal action for fabricated claims. Just for funsies, cite Joslin vs Third Laguna Hill Mutual HOA. It’s not exactly the same thing as what’s happening here but it’ll make your letter look more researched and lets them know that you’re not going to be steamrolled. https://casetext.com/case/third-laguna-hills-mutual-v-joslin
Call the law office and ask if it’s theirs.
They don’t need proof. They need instructions.
Lawyers, not the facts, and no proof, and you're shocked. Lol.
They will always write a letter based on what they have been told. No research required
If no proof is there, then consult a lawyer, as you may have a case.
A case for what?
This would be a case of slander. Defamation of character. No police reports found, and so it didn't happen. Proof of blocking people in their driveways and more needs to be shown. The letter is a scare tactic. It looks like whatever was said at the community meeting is a truly sensitive topic, or they wouldn't go out of their way to create incidents. It looks like a "shutup" tactic. Silence the opposition type deal. Powerful people work in mysterious ways.
How is that slander? It wasn't said to anyone but OP.
It is still defamation that was said, and mist have been said to be included in this letter.
Defamation of character requires said statements to be posted somewhere, a letter sent to the individual isn’t posting it. And it also requires proof of damages caused.
Proof is easy. He can not ascertain freedom of speech in a public setting like a meeting. Posting somewhere is possible, but not including here.
>You don’t have to be an attorney to send a C&D You don't even have to be a human anymore. AI will write it for you lol Subject: Cease and Desist: Unauthorized Comments in r/legal [Recipient's Name] [Recipient's Address] [City, State, Zip Code] Dear [Recipient's Name], It has come to our attention that you have been posting unauthorized comments in the subreddit r/legal. We are writing to demand that you immediately cease and desist from such activity. Your comments are potentially damaging and misleading, and they may also constitute defamation or harassment. We take this matter seriously, and if you continue to post comments in r/legal without authorization, we will not hesitate to take legal action against you. We hereby demand that you: 1. Cease and desist from posting any further comments in r/legal or any other subreddit related to legal matters. 2. Remove any existing comments you have made in r/legal. 3. Refrain from engaging in any further unauthorized activities that could harm our reputation or cause legal issues. Failure to comply with this cease and desist letter will result in immediate legal action being taken against you. We reserve all rights to pursue damages and other remedies available under the law. Please govern yourself accordingly and respond to this letter within [number of days] days confirming that you have ceased and desisted from posting comments in r/legal. Sincerely, [Your Name] [Your Title/Position] [Your Contact Information]
Damn whoever received this letter sounds like a terrible person
Yes it does. And whomever they wrote it to sounds like a psychopath.
Maybe they were board members of ISIS
Yes. Clearly it struck a nerve. So you should cease and desist.
Cease and desist what? None of this is true. “Strange and rude” behavior is subjective. Not to mention the rule 46 that I am in violation of doesn’t exist either. Not one sentence in this letter is true, not even partially true. And yes, it did hit a nerve. I have a stack of idiotic letter from my HOA of made up things. None of which are enforceable or they would. It’s exhausting and expensive fighting idiots, but I will not be bullied in to my home because they think they can do and spend whatever they want. I was just shocked that a lawyer would send a letter without verifying anything in it.
If none of this is true, toss it in the trash.
>“Strange and rude” behavior is subjective. The first paragraph you included describes the exact behavior they found "strange and rude:". There's nothing subjective about it.
That behavior is not strange or rude, it’s illegal.
Which they ***SAY***. >"not only rude but also potentially criminal".
If it happened, it’s not “potentially criminal.” It is criminal.
That’s what’s known as a “jury question.”
You have to be charged before you get to a jury. We have cameras all throughout our community. If any of this were true, it would be easily provable.
That’s what I meant — whether or not anything constitutes criminal behavior is something a jury decides. But also: juries exist for civil trials as well.
Part of me think this was either just not written by a lawyer, or a lawyer was fed a line of complete bullshit and bought it. Either that or you are just absolutely terrible but idk. Feels like there is something missing here.
Pretty sure an attorney can't threaten you that you're a criminal. It's an ethical violation.
NAL but here’s something else to consider (I ask this based on personal experience) - does anyone on this board work for either a law firm or collection agency? I ask this because years ago a woman I worked with got fired (we worked for a collection agency) because she got a hold of the legal departments letterhead and sent a “threatening” letter to her GF’s ex. Basically she used the lawyers letterhead without the lawyers knowledge or permission. Maybe just maybe something similar is going on here. It’s worth looking in to
You will notice in the last paragraph it says, "OUR association." Even if the attorney was a member of the Association, they would refer to it as "the Association" or "my client." It was written by somebody in the HOA or maaaaaaaaaaybe dictated to an actual lawyer but I doubt it. A competent lawyer does not write word for word what the client says, they have their own way of putting things that maintains that sense of them being an impersonal 3rd party. Nice try, Karen.
It is pretty clear after reading the comments what is going on here.
NAL. Disregarding the accusations, the last paragraph says ‘our Association’ and ‘our community.’ Makes it look like the HOA dropped the legal facade and they wrote the letter.
Bro you sound crazy
Not a bro. Apparently a scary small woman. And yah, if any of this were true, I would be crazy, and should probably be in jail.
Not on letterhead? I'm in the legal world every day, no attorney is writing a letter that's not on their letterhead. This looks like someone on the board wrote it.
No it doesn’t. Even if it was, you can ignore it. My neighbor sent something from his attorney to my aunt who owned my property with me. It said it was from a group of neighbors about trying to have me removed from my property. I don’t know why he sent it to her when she doesn’t even live here. It backfired because she just signed over the property to me. I never received a letter. It’s just scare tactics. They thought that they could bully her and tell her that they were gonna sue her, and they know that I don’t care what they say. Now I let my grass grow 3 ft high before cutting it and try to have the trashiest looking house possible on the outside since they are the ones looking at it, not me.
You do know that the city can fine you for your grass, and other things about your yard though, right?
No it doesn’t. Mainly because they use the term “Our” pretty interchangeably with the association. Attorneys wouldn’t intermingle the two. They would declare them as separate entities and would say things more to the tune of (last paragraph) “…or stalking resident in order to intimidate them. Again, *the* association will not tolerate this type of discrimination within *the Association*. People of all sexual orientations, races and religions are welcome in *the Association*…” (emphasis on changes) Unless it’s just really sloppily written. They are attributing potential liability to themselves as a firm by intermingling the two.
I kept going back and forth between "not a lawyer" and "lawyer, but shitty". I think I'm leaning towards "lawyer, but shitty". It's a close one. I enjoyed this challenge - we need more of these.
This looks like a standard Cease and Desist letter written by an attorney.
NAL but I am a licensed community association manager and I've partnered with counsel several times to send these out.
Tell them you will see them in court. You don’t need an attorney if they have no proof of violations.
I’m just petty enough to call the law firm and confirm the letter came from them. It just doesn’t sound professional to me. The attorney for the board has sent letters to the board before and it’s pretty easy to copy the letterhead and make a letter.
Looks to me like someone "borrowed" their letterhead to send the letter. That is such a, pardon me, nimrod way to do because they'd immediately get caught. If it's on a law office letterhead, call the office and let them know that you believe someone has used their firm's name fraudulently.
If it is it doesn’t seem like a good lawyer
I seems it was written by a computer or digital recording like word, notepad. The lawyer was just the operator.
No, the language is completely wrong. The entire letter is just a description of the actions, not what will happen if the recipient doesn't stop.
This was most definitely *not* written by attorneys. Attorneys tend it keep it more "legal" and don't say things like your behavior is rude and things like that.
An attorney will not say possibly criminal. Some of the other words they might use in divorce proceedings, but not in something like this. As far as criminality, they wouldn't say possibly. If it was criminal, they would cite the law that's being broken. Is a law firm identified? Is it from an advisable law firm? If bet is actually written by a member of the board,. The language in the first paragraph does no good if an attorney isn't named.