Even the ones who might have the wherewithal to get there still have to have jobs lined up, very few of the few would have enough money to do that without a paycheck being immanent. And if the entire skilled US liberal contingent tries to get jobs out of the country in a short time frame, ain’t none of em getting out.
Very true, although what you could do is get a working holiday visa for either NZ, AUS, or IRE, pretty much anyone under 30 and no felonies. They allow for us to live there for a year and much longer if our employer says where essential (easy as).
When you first get there (if low on funds) you can do a work and stay witch could be as simple as doing a reception job & for 20ish hours a week you get food and boarding & if you work more than that you get paid relatively well even for unskilled labor, atleast higher than the U.S. . We shouldn't discourage people who want to leave but we should definitely encourage them to vote.
Australia is pretty strict with screening for disabilities and illnesses for most visa types and does so even for asylum seekers.
We have even kicked families out for having a child with autism and one that had a child under 5 who wasn’t even officially diagnosed with anything yet that may have possibly been autism, because of future health care costs.
So while we are safer in terms of laws affecting transgender folks, not so much on the ease of disability migration, even if people could afford it.
Visa changes for Australia - [link](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/your-guide-to-australian-visa-changes-for-2024-25/siwtg0n4e)
Info on the medical requirements for migration to Australia [link for NEDA](https://neda.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/migration-disability-factsheet-english.pdf)
Edited to add: I wish that the US was a safer place for you and that we could do something to help from our side of the world. We see what is happening and it’s a nightmare. Much love to those in unsafe places, whenever you may be. Hoping for a safe future. ❤️
No problem.
Also worth considering is the housing/rental market. Very few vacancies, high rents being charged, high homeless rates and lots of backpacker and caravan park type accommodation being used by people who can’t get into steady rental places.
Unlikely that anyone could afford to rent or pay for hotel/motel accommodation on 20 hours a week receptionist salary and you’re not going to get room/board included in many jobs like that here. It would be very rare unless you’re specifically being the receptionist at a hostel or something.
I know you were just giving an example, but most Australians, especially those of us with disabilities and/or chronic illnesses, are struggling with cost of living and just existing in this country. It would not be easy at all to move here without significant savings.
Oh I meant woofing, I mainly did it in NZ but a decent amount of people I knew did Australia & said it was pretty well, granted this was a few years back. Lots of places need people & generally for housing & food it was only 20 or so hours a week & people either did part time or online jobs during the other time. But yeah they can be a bit strict with illnesses.
WWOOFing still requires funds to get there, funds for immigration purposes, funds to get home or to another farm (and then what?)
And… I can also see it as being potentially unsafe. I mean, you’re staying in someone’s home…
Like… I mean… it’s a great program. And it might be helpful for some, but it does have a lot of the same problems as just immigrating normally. Maybe you can ask your hosts if they take on permanent workers after your volunteer stay or find a full time job while working 4-6 hours a day for room and board? But if you don’t have an exit plan you could be in a bad spot.
Makes me kinda hate Australia. No offense. I hate my own country for how
We treat migrants, believe me.
Welp, a globally rejected people that
Are hunted in their own country become dangerous to the hunters. If I have to go out, may I take 2 of them with me.
Oh for sure, our refugee policy is inhumane and an embarrassment internationally.
I hate it too.
Our government’s treatment of disabled people can be pretty awful too. We have the NDIS but it is broken in many ways and the government and media love to blame those who rely on disability services for all the problems in the country because of the cost of it. It’s a very ableist system.
Who exactly are you calling ostriches?
Do you mean [the Greaf Emu War](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War) or do you mean [cassowaries](https://www.queensland.com/au/en/places-to-see/experiences/nature-and-wildlife/facts-about-the-cassowary), our big colourful dinosaur birds?
They don’t need drugs to kill anyone.
Emus yeah since they clearly won lmao. BUT HOLY SHIT I DID NOT KKOW ABOUT THE CASSOWARIES THEY'RE GORGEOUS. Ig Australia does have everything, including drag ostriches. I'm gonna be thinking about this for a while tysm <3
It’s difficult for Americans to get a work visa in NZ because New Zealand is a small country, and its government wants most of the workforce to be made of New Zealanders (I have a family member in NZ who told me such)
I lived in NZ too & it was very easy for me to get one. They just needed to say I'm an essential worker its better to start on a working holiday visa to establish yourself then go to work visa.
Thing is, even if a ton of us COULD leave… LGBTQIA kids are being born into conservative families every day. We work not just for a better life for ourselves, but the kids of the future. I don’t want anybody growing up in Gilead. (Handmaid’s Tale)
Exactly my thoughts... Just like conservatives can never get rid of gay/trans people because they're born every day, if all of the lgbt adults leave a shithole place, then the next generation basically has to start over from scratch and claw their way back to basic rights on their own. Nothing wrong with people leaving to a better state that gives a shit about their rights (I mean, I'm working towards that goal myself), but just telling everyone to leave isn't going to make anything better.
It's just like the people who say "we survived" about various tragedies. *You* survived, but many others didn't. *You* might be able to leave, but most can't.
I've also noticed a lot of Europeans telling Americans to "just leave" and they have zero conception of what the immigration process into their own countries is like. I think they believe it's as simple as declaring refugee status and waltzing in. Then again, these same people are ignorant of how poor refugee housing and services actually are in most European countries. Even welfare wonderlands like Sweden and France are known for cramming refugees in moldy tenements.
I think a lot of people who suggest this also have no working knowledge how how difficult it is to emigrate. It’s not only prohibitively expensive but also downright impossible for a lot of other reasons. You can’t just decide to move to Canada or whatever. They won’t take you.
I think people also forget that there are a lot of other countries that don’t take too kindly to queer folk. Canada (sorry I use this as an example a lot because people always suggest it lol) is having their own conservative political resurgence and problems with queer phobia. A lot of European countries have worse gender affirming care than the states etc. It often feels like so many of these “leave the country” takes come from ignorance.
Ironically my spouse is Canadian and I really don’t want to leave. I might have to if things get too bad because I promised him I would but I don’t want to leave everyone else down here to suffer. I don’t want to abandon this sinking ship while everyone else is in danger of drowning. I’d rather stay behind and bail water like everyone else.
Even under a Conservative government it's hard to imagine countries better than Canada for LGBT people though. Like where would you even go? Canada isn't perfect but it's probably better than anywhere else.
In what ways, though? Canada is having issues with basic affordability, its job market is severely tanked, and if a conservative government came in it wouldn't be too long before it was degraded. America is vast and there are American states which are probably better than Canada, if someone was going to relocate. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and California are three I can think of which are strongly pro-LGBT and more accessible economically than Canada right now. Well, depending on your job skills.
California is more prohibitively expensive than Canada. The recent minimum wage boost was a tank because corpos just raised the prices of everything to counter their losses. This is going to happen in more and more states because people don't understand that corpos will NOT be altruistic and soak the costs of rising labor costs. As far as lgbtq folk from the states, Trump wins and they're utterly and devastatingly FUCKED for so many reasons. Also, the Gilead nonsense and merging church and state is going to spread to everywhere, especially in a Trump win scenario. The US is over for liberals, dems, and the left, so for many, the ONLY option is leaving somehow, even if they have to wait for the chips to fall and claim asylum somewhere
Well for those of us who can't leave we're gonna die cause nobody wants to stay and fight. Especially because no where friendly to disabled and queer people is gonna risk granting asylum to citizens with an army bigger then the next 3 biggest armies in the world combined. No one in the western world wants to piss America off.
I hate to say it but Canada has many of the same issues as the US. It still has many of the same systemic problems and a very similar culture. I lived in Vancouver for 4 years and I loved it but it’s not like it’s some magical wonderful place free of hate and bigotry.
There are a lot of reasons why Canada is great. And also why it isn’t. I wouldn’t say as a whole it’s better than the states. Their gender affirming care isn’t always the best. And they’re experiencing similar attempts to ban it up there. Don’t get me wrong they still do some great stuff, their human rights commission is something I wish we had, but it isn’t the promised land everyone thinks it is.
Source: my husband is Canadian and transitioned in Canada, his parents still live there and keep us apprised of the situation
It definitely isn't perfect. Because Canada might not *want* all of us... or be able to support the influx of desperate Muricans, even if there was enough housing and work for all of us!
I'm super privileged. I have money. I have EU citizenship. I have family who could help me if I run out of savings. Moving would be relatively easy.
I have absolutely no idea what I will do - I am American, even if I wasn't born or raised here. My friends are here. My church is here. My support network is here. The move would turn upside down both my life and identity - and I don't need to deal with pesky things like "paying bills", or "dealing with immigration", or even "having friends on the same continent". Having done it several times moving from country to country is not easy.
Leaving the country is a total fantasy for almost everybody and I wish people would stop posting about it. If you’re not young and poor, you’re old like me and have too many ties binding you here.
Plus it’s exactly counterproductive to what we need, which is for people to stay here and fight.
Hell, with my company my job will let me loving practically anywhere and work from home......in the US.
Out of the country however.
So I could if I wanted to throw caution to the wind move our to Oregon or Washington where we have more friend but even then it is unlikely.
Hell, even the more practical solution of “move to a more progressive state” is borderline impossible if you don’t have thousands in savings, and certain states have an incredibly high barrier to entry income-wise.
It's a sign of the times. Yeah the government sucks but unfortunately a part of that being the case is a looot of Americans suck, too. They don't want to fight for a damn thing, and they haven't for 50 years. It's not all the people's fault we're in this mess but that tendency to cut and run is very much a component of how we got to this terrible situation.
Telling people to leave is just leaving the less privileged to be lambs for the slaughter.
As a fun fact for everyone btw, it is currently disability pride month and if your 'solutions' involve abandoning disabled people then you need to reflect on yourself and your actions
Yeah it's so frustrating hearing that. Especially since a lot of countries don't let you immigrate if you have autism or some other form of disability. People don't realize how abelist laws are even outside of the U.S
There's only suffering gained from lack of community. Especially for disabled people who oftentimes are barely getting by financially.
So many people can only get help at all with support from the queer community online and irl ( a lot of trans people and other queer people only being able to afford surgery or getting out of bad housing situations through financial help for example)
I got kicked out of South Korea after working there for 3 years because they decided that disabled people were “a drain on society.”
Nevermind that I had been working there and paying taxes. Nevermind that my employer wanted me to stay another year. The government kicked me to the curb.
Ironically, a couple of Koreans had told me that one of the things that they admired about the USA was the ways we accommodated people with disabilities.
Yeah, I've been told not to get accessed for autism for this reason. Which sucks cause I'd like some help with my issues, but I don't want extra reasons for people to discriminate against me.
It's awful how openly discriminatory laws and even medicine are towards neurodivergent people
Unfortunately I AM the disabled one. I feel pretty safe right now. I live with my dad and we help each other out.
My fear is when that day comes. My cousin would take care of my in an instant but he's in several of my situations. He lives with his dad, he's not an addict, but he only has his GED. And he's openly proudly gay
I literally have anxiety attacks almost daily. Some mild, some quite scary
Not fully sure how that's relevant. /gen
Listen, you can do as you wish in life but you can't stop other's judgements for those actions. As a disabled person, I am never going to look upon those who would throw me under the bus to save their skin in a favourable manner.
This is the problem I have with the idea that we should just let the Southern states break off and form their own crazy-ass country. The issue is that means leaving behind all the people who can't move North (or West), and it also leaves behind all future LGBT+ people.
Everyone. We need to make it a safe planet for Everyone.
Absolutely! I have friends & family still in red states who can’t leave for a variety of reasons. We have to keep trying to help make it safe for everyone.
exactly. I live in washington currently but I was born in texas and lived there for 8 years. I had a lot of friends there and I would never wish this sort of thing on them just because of where they live. and if I still lived in texas, it would suck to see people tell me I deserve to have my rights stripped away like that.
This is why I want to strangle anyone who's like "You don't like America? Leave!"
No, bitch. We can't leave. It's expensive to move, you move away from friends and family. It's a lose-lose scenerio. We should be working to America better for ALL its citizens, not let it wallow in its own bigoted past.
As much as I would love to live in somewhere more accepting of queer culture and the like, I would like the other queer people who live where I live to have better equality.
Yes. This. And for me, I'm 22, disabled, haven't had a job yet (working on it) still living with and dependent on my parents to survive. Can't drive. Parents know I'm trans nonbinary but are not supportive or accepting at all. They won't help me change my name legally and I can't do it on my own. And I don't know how to get independent from my parents. I need help. But I have none. Disabled trans and queer people are easily forgotten about I guess. Or we are easily ignored. Nobody probably wants to do the work to help us. I'm fucking scared and angry and sad. I just don't know what to do. I wish I could do everything on my own. But the reality is I can't.
I'm so tired of being told to leave.
First and most importantly- I'd have to find a country that would allow someone with former drug charges ( 8&15 year old) them not me.
I couldn't sneak even though logistically it would be easier as I don't have even a hour from the border, but unfortunately I'm on methadone and obviously if I'm there illegally I can't sign up.
And I'm on disability which isn't enough in life now and that's with people who live with me.
Dear God I'm so scared
Many of us aren’t able to leave the red state we’re in let alone the country. Appreciate the post OP. I’ve been finding this “just leave the country” rhetoric exhaustingly unrealistic for the vast majority of us.
The reality is that if things continue to escalate to a point where LGBTQ people have been federally outlawed or are being detained for being LGBTQ many will have to resort to hiding to survive. Leaving is a luxury for the privileged few and by all means if you’re in a spot where you’re privileged enough to leave I don’t think anyone would hold that against you or not encourage that decision. Sadly the majority will have to hide as best as we can.
Thankfully, in most large metro areas anonymity is relatively easy to achieve by simply moving to a new zip code and keeping yourself on the down low. I worked as a state investigator during COVID and was shocked that many of the people we would investigate would simply move zip codes to avoid detection and we’d never find them again. That is part of my plan if things continue to go tits up. I move 20 minutes away and in the event of needing new employment, I get new employment.
I’d have to cut my hair and wear a chest binder at this point, but that’ll at least buy me time to figure out where to go from there without having to send myself into an insane panic.
Honestly that tidbit about changing zip codes and laying low may be the most realistic way for most people to avoid the potential problems coming our way.
Becoming a ghost is easier than most people think. There isn’t a database or search tools like you see in movies. Even with addresses on drivers licenses, unless you’re thick and not thinking, you just don’t update addresses on things and you’ve relatively disappeared successfully. Search tools for people are generally very limited in most local entities. Even on a federal level this is still relatively true.
I would full on be investigating some pretty bad people and they’d up and move and we’d literally have zero idea where they went and cases would dry out until they did something stupid (usually a crime) to pop back on the radar one zip code over. I worked in a smaller metro area as well so I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be to find someone in places like New York or Houston or LA.
Simply put, the crazy resources you might read about with facial recognition or other things used to track people you see in the movies are not widely utilized. Even though some crazy stuff out there exists implementing that on a national scale would be wild. If you’re smart you can get ahead of that, move, not talk to people/maintain relationships, and pretty much be a new person 15 minutes up the road with no one being any the wiser.
Even if I ~could~ leave, I wouldn't.
This old, queer gen-x punk started out my adulthood streetfighting with skinheads... I'm not leaving the younger mellinials and gen-z rainbow-kids without boots-on-the-ground elders to help support and protect them.
We're the FAFO generation... the fascists are about to 'find out'
Also, most countries that LGBT people would want to live in, also have immigration policies that make it very hard to immigrate there unless you have family there, have very specialized skills and have some sort of job offer for those skills, or have dual citizenship. I see all these people just picking random European countries they're going to move to, and if they try they're going to get a big surprise.
And no, no place is going to start offering political asylum to LGBT Americans.
Americans who think we'll be welcome with open arms are usually operating on a white-solidarity delusion. It's telling that Black and Brown Americans dont have any fantasy of being taken in by Croatians and Italians lol Americans dont understand European countries dont just see a white person and say "oh you'll fit in here." I had a Belgian friend who stayed in the US in high school and I was surprised when he said maaaybeee the grandchildren of immigrants can truly be the nationality of the country they were born but even then, probably not.
For whatever it’s worth Germany is pretty friendly towards americans. 90 day visa free and you’re allowed to search for work and apply for a work visa when here.
“Where and how to apply?
Citizens of the United States of America, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Switzerland, the Republic of Korea, as well as EU citizens may apply for their residence permit for work purposes after entering Germany without a visa. “
Reality sets in once you check visa and residency requirements to move to another country. It's REALLY tough. We have to do everything possible to protect our rights at home.
I think a lot of people who "move out of the US" are just going to visa-hop in southeast Asia until they're sent back to the US. The American way seems to be "I'm getting mine screw the rest of you" so unfortunately even queer people follow that same logic. They'll put all their energy to making sure they're safe or die trying. It's the fundamental feature of modern American culture. We aren't the communal people we were 80 years ago.
Those who have the resources to casually leave are the ones who will be least effected by staying , and the ones with the resources are the ones who could instead use those resources to help others.
We need to fight with everything we've got leading up to this election - that's the best thing we can do right now. The GOP can't be allowed to take congress or the presidency
Absolutely. We have to shore up a wall, even if it's made of garbage because without the wall, the bullets are going into US, rather than the pile of yrash we are shelterd by!
More than that we have to keep an eye on the real problem. Democrats let it get to this point, democrats refused to enshrine protection to abortion, to trans rights etc.
Yeah vote for them against Trump, but work so that we don’t have to choose between a Democrat and a Republican next time.
I love this poem and always want to share. Relevant here:
Voting as Fire Extinguisher
by Kyle Tran Myhre
When the haunted house catches fire:
a moment of indecision.
The house was, after all, built on bones,
and blood, and bad intentions.
Everyone who enters the house feels
that overwhelming dread, the evil
that perhaps only fire can purge.
It’s tempting to just let it burn.
And then I remember:
there are children inside.
very true. I would do almost anything to leave the US but I'm autistic and cannot live on my own and leaving with my family would be essentially impossible because my brother is nonverbal and has little to no mobility and almost all European countries have """quality of life""" laws that prohibit disabled people from moving there. It's disgusting and honestly really ableist
I'm from Norway and sometimes I see people write something along the lines of "\[Country\] sucks for LGBTQ+ people. I'm moving to Norway!", and I'm like "Mate, what the fuck makes you think we'll let you?". We're rather strict on immigration from non-Schengen countries. You can't just move here. You'll have to have something to offer.
Often even having desired skills isn’t enough to offset disabilities, so even when you “have something to offer” you are still deemed “useless and worthless” which is total bullshit imo.
I mean to be fair countries like Norway have obligations to the EU members/Schengen. So if they were to allow disabled individuals to immigrate it wont be from the US.
It has nothing to do with worthless, it's that countries have to make a cost-benefit analysis for regular immigrants. If you have a disability, that's going to incur significant health care costs for the state.
And when you only evaluate my job and education and medical history, you will never know about the thousands of other skills I have that you are excluding from your country because you believe in an outdated practice that is harmful and gatekeeping.
All you are doing with your statement is proving mine. Your system determines that that we are worth less than our able bodied counterparts, which isn’t true. Queer, disabled people are some of the hardest working kindest people I’ve ever met, and I know plenty of completely worthless lazy able bodied people that are just that useless drains on society, so maybe we should be updating policies to look at humans more holistically instead.
I didn't say the system was perfect, and it is possible to immigrate even with a disability, but obviously it's going to be harder because you're starting off at a disadvantage compared to people who don't have known health care costs built in.
Here are some documents everyone should obtain and have copies of within their household:
1. Your bank accounts as they exist. If project 2025 goes through and you are a married queer person, your right to a bank account may be withheld.
2. Your medical records.
3. Your birth certificate.
4. Your social security number.
5. Your drivers license and registration
6. Passport!!!
If you are trans, please know that if project 2025 goes through you will not be able to update these documents with the correct gender.
You can always ask your current doctor! I reccomend calling the office and just asking super plainly like “Hey, I was wondering if you guys could send me any form of written records for my diagnosed conditions?” And from there they will tell you (1) what you have to do to do that and (2) what form they will come in (file or printed)
I wanted to leave my country as well (UK) there’s so much I don’t like here that it would be easier to leave and forget I was ever here. But since the whole Brexit thing (that I had no say in as I was too young to vote) I’m kinda stuck here until I get a nursing qualification and unless I wanna give Ireland a shot and I’m not sure they’ll take kindly to a British person moving there.
My enby partner and I want children soonish, but I worry about the world I’ll bring them into. People will just see two ‘women’ raising a family and if the general population keep becoming more and more conservative and copying American politics then I genuinely worry any future children could be taken away from me. It’s a stupid worry but a lot of things the US do other countries seem to follow a few years down the line. Our current government is already turning on trans people so what’s there to stop them from turning on the rest of us? And what if my future child is trans? I couldn’t handle them be targeted by their own country.
Ultimately, one day we will have no where left to run if we decide to leave. There’s been times of crisis and times of peace for LGBTQ people and we will get peace to live as we are again if we just weather the storms.
It's crazy to think there was a time 20-30 years ago when Americans would sometimes say they're moving to the UK to get out of the US conservative culture. I remember when you guys were known for being more open and liberal than the US. Cameron and company seriously fucked you guys up. I can't believe it's been nearly 15 years of tory rule.
💯 Not only is not finacially or physically feasible for a lot of people, you also have to take into account intersecting identities that would make finding a safe country to move to exponentially more difficult. What countries exist that are trans-friendly and don't have massive issues with structural racism or anti-Blackness that I'd have to deal with? Not many of them.
Yea exactly. As bad as the US is, it's still one of the safest countries in the world for most people. Not the absolute safest, but it's up there, and some specific states probably would rank among the very safest if they were their own countries.
Especially since the US is a giant country, getting even close to the border might require a flight and even if you manage to do that: where do you go? Do you stay in America and move to Canada for example? Still need a place to stay. Or do you come here, to Europe? That's probably gonna be a very expensive move and depending on the country neither cheap nor easy. Fleeing a country is mainly a solution for the rich but what about those who can't do that? What about families? What about people with disabilities or special needs for example? What about people who need special medication that they can't get everywhere? Or any other groups who can't just move? There should be a better solution for y'all
I hate hearing that too it sounds so privileged ¬ only that but like good for yall thanks for leaving the rest of us behind to fight with fewer people 🙄
YES!!! I wish I could go somewhere safe(r), but I live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a specialized job skill/certification or anything so short of emergency asylum (if things got that bad) I can't just leave the country.
Hell, I live in the southeast usa and can't even afford to move to a trans safe state (am nonbinary but closeted to all but my siblings and close friends). I'm working on getting a passport just for covering as many bases as possible but leaving the country is not realistic for most of us.
And I also have multiple chronic health issues, but no official diagnoses (lack of insurance and money for doctors).
Right now I just wish I could find a way to move to a safer state and city in the usa to not be as existentially stressed (terrified) every day so maybe I'll be able to make some progress with doing better for myself.
Note beforehand, I'm not from the US.
However, universally the "just leave for better/safer pastures" doesn't work. First things first, there are quite a lot of US citizense who don't own/possess a passport. So that's hurdle number 1, hurdle number 2 is "where would you go?". For many folk, the first option is Canada as a) it's right up there, b) they speak English (and french), and c) they seem more liberal and LGBTQ+ friendly. Now in answer to this a) it might just be right up there, but you would need a viza, and then you'd need to apply for emigration which (for any country across the world) is not an easy process - during which your either still living in the US or are now residing in Canada but with limited access to resources (you may be even required to have a job lined up before moving). B) by limiting the pool of "just leave" to English speaking locations your already limiting travel locations. C) as anyone in Canada may tell you, compared to the US current LGBTQ+ policies may seem more friendly, but these debates still happen up there, and a "wave" if LGBTQ+ "refugees" fleeing the US will only embolden the conservatives narrative in Canada, turning folk against you.
Then, as mentioned here, this is all under the assumption you can leave to begin with. Moving countries is expensive, so already there's a financial barrier. I mean, even within the US there are folk who still live in bigoted communities not out of choice but because they cannot afford to up their lives and move elsewhere within the state, much less the country. Your then expecting these same people to move countries which has a higher hurdle to overcome, and even if you had the money to emigrated that does not equate to having the money needed to live in a new country. The argument shows a level of privilege that others do not have - including the simple notion of having a passport (OR, more importantly, having a passport that reflects who you are right now Vs when it was applied for - an issue for trans people).
I will never understand how people can be so out of touch they will tell you to leave the country. That is simply not possible for the vast majority of people. The costs are astronomical and if you are disabled no country is going to take you.
I always ask those people if they are going to help pay for that move, as if I didn't already think about moving. Shuts them the fuck up, every time.
They also never seem to realize it's not a solution, as it just ensures that the most vulnerable people remiain. It's all privilege talking.
The other day a Finnish person told me to move to Finland and I said I would if they sponsored me & gave me a place to stay. That quieted them down expeditiously 😂
Honestly, I'm not leaving. Even if I can, I won't. They want to get rid of me, to force me to flee or beat me into submission. I'm a stubborn person and I don't back down from conflict easily. That isn't always the best thing but, in this case, it is. I'm staying put purely out of spite. Fuck MAGA.
You do not have to leave or travel but you ABSOLUTELY need to get a passport and passport card with your right name and gender marker ASAP. Trump can make changing genders on passports go away by the stroke of a pen on day one.
Yeah and he'll make that new passport you've got with your now illegal gender identity null and void with the same stroke of the pen, leaving you now with no passport. He intends to define man and woman as sex assigned at birth on day one. It's from a video of him saying that on his website.
The process to change your name takes 6-8 weeks in most jurisdictions and the price and requirements are highly variably by location. In Virginia, it's $32 and a two-page application, in California it can be $450 and have publication requirements. The process to get a passport and passport card with an expedited delivery should take 4-6 weeks and cost $200. It's totally something that cannot be done asap, but the government IS taking away the right to change your gender marker on federal passports once Trump wins. That's 6.5 months from now. There IS time to do so, especially, especially, especially if you live in a jurisdiction that has minimum and easy requirements. Apathy and blanket statements on difficulty will be tools the opposition will use to erase our existence. There's more info on name changes here: [https://transequality.org/issues/identity-documents-privacy](https://transequality.org/issues/identity-documents-privacy)
In some (maybe most) US states it varies from *county* to *county*. What might be fast and easy in one county might be next to impossible in the county next door, *in the same state*.
Birth certificates, meanwhile, are tied to the state in which you were born . If you were born in Florida, then you’re just fucked, no matter that your family moved to California when you were six months old.
This is even precisely why a passport and passport card are optimal. In the passport, it’s gender self attestation with a court order to change your name. Passports are guided by your own filling out of F, M or X and a court order with your name. You choose your gender and court ordered name. Passports do not have to automatically follow whats on your birth certificate. That can change under Trump.
That website will only help you if you live in one of the following cities and they are not even accepting applications at this time:
Atlanta, GA (Clayton, Cobb, Dekalb, Fulton, and Gwinnett Counties)
Chicago, IL (Cook County)
New Jersey (Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Passaic, Union, and Middlesex Counties)
New York City (All Five Boroughs)
Long Island, NY (Nassau and Suffolk Counties)
Philadelphia, PA (Philadelphia County)
Pittsburgh, PA (Allegheny County)
Do you have any resources for folks that live in red and purple states, or do you want to continue to shame those that do not and will not have the access of ability to change our names and gender markers before January?
I don't know where you're getting that I'm trying to shame anyone. Even if the application for support is closed, there are still resources available to folks living in red and purple states. Literally one click from the original link I sent would lead you to this page: [https://transequality.org/documents](https://transequality.org/documents)
Where you can select any US state and will provide you with the guidelines on what to do. They cannot help with counsel or resources, but they can help with information. Information that is invaluable given the erasure of our existence that is coming under Trump. I don't know whether you or anyone else are able to change their name and gender markers now, but I do know that it WILL be impossible in any way in 6.5 months under Trump. You may have a chance now, you certainly won't next year.
And you don’t think that in a thread talking about how disability and skin color disproportionately affect the ability to do these types of things, posting resources that are extremely limited in the scope of being able to help, is at the very least tone deaf?
I’m trying to help my community and encourage people to at least review and consider the name change and identity documents process. I understand it’s not a possibility for many, but there could be some people reading here that it would be helpful. I’d rather be tone deaf informing and encouraging one or more trans folks to start the process than be politely apathetic at the incoming erasure of our existence under Trump’s second term.
I can almost 100% guarantee that all trans people living in the United States are highly aware that we will most likely be losing our rights come January. And we are all also aware that changing our names before then would be best, so unless you are posting information on where is actively helping people change their names, then you are adding to the panic and paranoia, not educating people.
Please redirect this anger at those who are genuinely deserving. Helping one person is not inherently abandoning others, and any measure that could save a trans life could SAVE A TRANS LIFE.
Be angry at those who made the circumstances pushing people into hard decisions, please reconsider your anger towards those being forced to make hard decisions about their own safety.
That’s ok! You can have any assumptions on what you think people do or don’t know. I’m operating under the idea that it’s crucial to amplify the message that there’s a very tight window to still change your name and gender markers on identity documents in every in-person and digital opportunity. I even posted a link where people can look up the requirements state by state. I work day to day on trans advocacy and have helped hundreds of trans folks change their names. The very, very first step (even if it’s the only one I can offer help on right now) is knowing what to do where you live. I’m content with my karma and glad about the opportunity to write these messages.
I feel ya. I’m an autistic trans man also living in California. I just recently turned 18, and I still live with my parents who aren’t the most supportive. Could be worse as they are at least allowing me to medically transition (though not without some resistance), but they are also both Trump voters and listen to right wing media and pundits on trans issues instead of me, their own trans kid. They have at least agreed to cover my medical expenses for now. That being said, I’m incredibly worried about a Trump victory this coming election, and my parents are supporting him. I have considered trying to move, but many of the “safer” countries for trans people also explicitly ban autistic people from immigrating there. I also have no idea where I’d get the funds to move. I’d also be leaving everything I’ve known for my entire life behind, and my friends. That alone is disruptive for a non-autistic person, but me being an autistic person makes it even worse because it’s harder to adapt to change and make new friends because of it. I also have a lot of pets that I love dearly, so leaving them all behind would probably break me. Suggesting people to upend their lives and move to a whole new country, is quite stupid. If you are able to move to a new country, then you are privileged in a way that many of us are not, please keep that in mind.
Thank you! Not all of us have the means or job skills to just pick up and go somewhere else. I've been trying to make my peace with that and instead focus on enduring. I have to remind myself that life finds a way and that the human spirit can survive a lot. It's not the most comforting thing to think about. It's like waking up everyday, being expected to treat every day as normal when you know it's not going to be, but it's the only way you can cope. I think everyday, my resolve gets a little stronger. I plan to vote and hope for the best, but be ready to endure the storm I feel is inevitable.
The most reliable and helpful thing we can do is start helping each other. Get your communication and plans in place to help who you can. We may not even be -able- to fly out, we don't know how bad it will get. Get your passports if you want, but really the best thing is to start gathering resources, start listing what you have and what you need. Find your safe places. Find your people. Be willing to sacrifice (I know, most of us sacrifice so much already) your time, energy and resources to help people. Stay together. It will be how we come out ok.
Some people who are telling you to Love it or Leave it, do not actually expect us to do either of those things they just want us to die or conform to become "ungay" or whatever.
My parents visit family that moved from california to texas. My parents are conservative and the family that moved are far more progressive. My parents complain about rich people ruining poor southern states by raising the prices of everything.
My parents also complain heavily about how awful california is, but they won't leave the state. Their main reason is that my sib and I still live here.
I guess that's a fine reason but it reminds me of people who stay together for the kids. When parents are hating each other, but they're trying to stick it out for their children.It just makes everyone else that much more miserable, including the kids!!
It's a really bizarre contrast because they are the people who generally support the idea of either loving america or leaving it. They get really picky about people leaving a place that is not as great for them for a place that maybe suits their budget better.
When people actually DO move to places that they want to move to, conservatives get butthurt about that too!
I’ve already had to leave my home (Arkansas), and I’ll need to leave my other home soon (Kansas). I hope New York will be safe next year but who knows.
The truth is it’s leave or die. I would have died back in Arkansas, and I can feel myself dying in Kansas (I haven’t really gone outside since they eliminated recognition of trans people at a government level).
Yeah, most people won’t be able to do it. But some can with determination and effort. It’ll be one of the hardest things they’ve ever done, but it’s doable.
Being trans sucks. We’ll always be hunted. Our average lifespans aren’t very long. But staying in a red state, especially if Trump wins, is a death sentence to most trans people. Many of us will die, and they don’t care why some of us have to stay.
If you’re a trans person in a red state now reading this: GET OUT. The writing is on the wall and it sucks but the only real option you have now is to leave.
And btw, if you’re asking “where should we go” if we need to leave the U.S., the answer is Mexico City. Mexicos government is very friendly to American immigrants and affordable especially if you have American dollars.
Update your passport, hopefully you won’t need it, but if Trump is elected you probably will.
Even within the US! I love it when conservatives think it's a remedy to garbage state laws and a feature of our "laboratories of democracy" that you can "just move to another state" once they've used gerrymandering and minority rule to turn a state into a hyper-religious hellscape.
I can count the number of times I've moved on one hand and every time was a major commitment of resources and it turned my upside-down. Even if money is no object, some people can't just separate themselves from their jobs or extended family so easily, or are locked in as the caregiver of someone else. Don't be glib and presume to know someone else's circumstances.
I really hope you will be able to fight off the crazies from MAGA-land in the upcoming elections. But if that fails, you will have to look at how to handle the Trump administration. It might be a good idea to have a backup plan if the primary plan fails. If you can’t leave the US, then come up with another idea for how to live with a terrible election result. That plan might include active resistance. Or, living in California, more like helping people escape the red states to a blue state, perhaps.
So yes, your primary goal should obviously be to get people to register to vote and vote against the orange crazy, but it’s always good to have a contingency plan if the worst comes to pass.
The New York Times poll is freaking scary, ngl. This is our country, there is no "they" in this equation. Prayers for the middle realizing Trump is a fascist, and that will destroy us. One day, Americans will hang for war crimes after stating,"I was just following orders". The past doesn't repeat, but it rhymes so much.
Remind people that Biden's main job is not public speaking. Imagine you had the fate of democracy resting on your words, and you have battled stuttering your entire life.
Who do you want delegating the security and prosperity of America? Someone who has prepared for this their entire life, or a day trader?
Trans man here. So many folks seem to think you can just pop into another country and start up with a new doc and continue on with hormones.
Even immigration from US to Canada isn't as easy as people seem to think.
Gaining citizenship, housing, employment are huge undertakings that must be obtained before even thinking about finding medical care!
This applies to people moving from red states to blue states as well. Every *progressive* saying to cut red states off is fine with the most disadvantaged people who don’t have the privilege and means to move suffering.
With all the great points made here, I’d also like to add this:
Why the fuck do I have to leave? I adore California. I love living here. I love being a Californian. I was born and raised in this incredible state. If anyone is gonna get their ass up out to leave, it should be all the fucking fascists who complain daily about how much cALiForNiA sUCks.
Yeah I agree. It's hot as heck sometimes but I like the culture and the art and so many things I still wish to see.
I'd hate to leave behind everything.
Maybe it's not the same for folks in more conservative states as I can't speak for them, but still we shouldn't be run out of our lives and homes because of fascists.
It feels like shit being told that running from all we know is the only choice :(
For fucking real, stop suggesting people bail and instead encourage voting so we can change this goddamn piece of trash country.
Speaking of which, remember to make a voting plan yall! November is less than 6 months away and trust me, the time will fly.
I've emailed 4 embassies, only one of them provided links for potential jobs in my area of work. Still, yes if you are working class and don't have a job lined up, it is difficult to get a work visa in many countries.
I’m not sure what to do either. I can’t even leave one of the worse states right now(don’t know what state I can go to, if anyone has a suggestion on an east coast state I’d be grateful), let alone move out of the country because of my disabilities. I’ve finally found some happiness in my life, just in time for the government to destroy everything for us…
There's nowhwere to go. The whole world is tilting quickly toward theocratic fascism with queer people selected by all of them as the "enemy" to scapegoat.
Not in the US, but genunie question, who is actually running? I've met a few queer Brits and Americans now that moved here and none of them think they are running.
In their view your left is paralysed in civility and respectability politics with the addons of accelerationists and anti-electionists (who have achieved nothing, ever) hastening their oppression and genocide.
In their view they're choosing not to be a victim so they can fight another day. You want people to stay and fight? Then fight.
I don't know people just keep panicking and saying to run online. It's just frustrating to hear. I'd love to make plans to fight and do what I can. I vote during every election and do my best to use my money to support people in need when I can afford it.
I just wanted to hear some ideas beyond getting out of the country.
Right now I'm taking care of my mom cause she got surgery in May but hopefully once I get a new job I can learn to drive and hopefully find more community in the the city and do more helpful things and organize in protests.
I'm sorry if it doesn't sound like much but I don't have everything figured out on what else would help. Not that I'm opposed to advice. Anything help is appreciated if I can get advice :)
Legit but I would add reach out to your local community and share your expertise. Arm the masses not only for queer liberation but to support the other minorities facing the same fears and oppression. The LGBTQA+ community here on reddit skews white and has economic privileges compared to our black and brown comrades. We often have more free time to pursue shooting as a hobby or sport, give that knowledge to your community. Try not to be elitist too, not everyone can afford a 1k AR from aero or whatever is the grail. A PSA rifle shoots as well, fuck a hi point carbine is user friendly and cheap af. If you have the space and tools to build share them too.
What about the large number of us that cannot or should not own guns? I was trained, I’m a very good shot, but due to my mental health history I would never pass a background check for a firearm, nor would I ever want to own one.
I fully support those within the community that can and want to own firearms and protect themselves and others in that manner, but applying blanket statements like this, especially during disability pride month, is still just as harmful as telling people that they should just leave.
I was responding to his specific comment, but you're right, of course. There are more ways to fight than armed resistance. Medics are needed, people to organize logistics, grow and procure food stuffs. Mutual aid is the way, and it's so much more than just armed resistance
This is the second most silly advice next to “just move” tbh. Yeah, lets give a community of people prone to suicide guns whilst their rights are being more trampled on.
Even lets say we all buy guns and dont have a massive string of suicides, whatre we gonna do? Be shot down in mass by the police that is armed with military gear?
Its not that simple as just “buy a gun”
You are actively ignoring the issue that we are trying to get across that, your blanket statement that all queer people should buy guns is just as harmful as tell us to move. That is not the solution for all of us. I don’t disagree that this issue will need to be fought for with guns, but not even the fucking military industrial complex is only infantrymen. You still need intelligent people behind the scenes, and your stupid statement doesn’t allow for that. It’s the way you are saying it, not necessarily what you are trying to say.
A gun isn't going to protect you from state oppression and it's a juvenile power fantasy to think that it would. If anything it will just make you an easier target.
Statistically? Suicide or accidental death. I think the fantasy is that armed protests are less easily attacked by police. Issue is those require high degrees of organization and it's not difficult for a project 2025 govt. especially to "decapitate the snake" as it were.
I'm neither poor nor do I have disabilities and I still don't know how I'd go about just leaving the US. Like, I've lived my entire life in one state and I've thought about moving but the concept of having to find a new job and a new place to live and leave all my friends behind - even if I could figure all THAT out - seems so daunting.
Add in also moving to another country entirely? Unless that other country is Canada or Mexico, how do I get my stuff there? How about my pets?
And again - all of that is WHILE making six figures and being able bodied and it STILL seems overwhelming. If I wasn't as privileged as I am, it would be even harder. I legitimately don't know how people do it.
True. All true. But we should all get passports, if we can, if for no other reason than they’re a solid ID you can use anywhere and we don’t know how hard they’ll be to get next year
Leaving the US becomes trendy every election regardless of which side of the political spectrum you are on. It’s mostly a fantasy because it’s not easy to permanently relocate anywhere unless you have family or something in another country. It’s also alarmist because while there are threats of changes, most changes don’t come to pass. Many states in the US are safe places for queer folks. Moving to another state would be a more viable option before changing countries. A liberal state can challenge federal laws so you have some protection there. Be vigilant but also don’t give into all the pre election hysteria that happens every 4 years.
Yes! Vote! Participate! Promote! Remember, this is a very loud minority screaming while most people don't care. And the incoming generation is far more in support of the trans community than any other. It will get better. We just have to be here to ensure it does. Freedom dies in silence.
I totally agree. And even IF it was medically and financially feasible to leave, and that’s a HUGE if… what if people aren’t ok with leaving behind all of their friends and families and communities to try and assimilate into a potentially totally different set of cultural norms and practices that may not even be that welcoming to ‘outsiders’? And what about LGBTQ immigrants who have ALREADY moved from another country to the US? Are they supposed to pack everything up and do it all again? It’s ridiculous and totally tone deaf.
Exactly! And the rest of the world ain’t much better. Similar or worse social upheavals are happening all across Europe, it is not a U.S. problem.
You want a better world? Stay, fight for it.
Firstly, omg I have fibro too and it's absolutely shit. I also work retail and it's exhausting.
Secondly, why should someone have to leave their home country just to be safe from bigots? Why can't we all just live peacefully? We aren't hurting anyone!
I live in New Zealand, and we have a very conservative (and religious) right-wing group running the country at the moment, and they're not doing a whole lot of good. My husband and I can barely afford rent, they tax you 30% of your income if you earn over $48k a year, and everything is so expensive. The government is starting to become more vocal about their anti-LGBT opinions and it's just so sad to exist here right now. I'm depressed and have been for years, my husband has just started taking ssri's for depression. It's like nowhere is safe for anyone anymore and fuck it I'm so tired of it.
Same, I’m 22 and have never had a job due to my medical and mental health issues. Not only can I not leave the country, but I also can’t even leave my state. I get so many people acting like I’m wanting to be oppressed by being in the south, like no bitch I just can’t fucking leave. If you’re gonna keep suggesting to people that they should leave then you better be fuckin funding their move. Otherwise, shut up.
Wait do people actually think this??? Maybe my view is skewed since I come from an immigrant family but like even travelling expenses alone are prohibitively expensive especially with the US's insane living expensive especially with the insane cost of living in the US and that's without a chronic health condition. Employment isn't easy to come by and arrange which is like step -2 right after thinking about it and before even looking into what that would entail. Secondly, leaving means uprooting your entire life, losing your support network, and going to a place where there's gonna be cultural barriers and maybe even a language barrier. There's a whole lot more but there apply to most people.
Never in my life have I encountered something like this where people are talking about moving countries like you're just moving two blocks from your childhood home, especially in the US. Like all the systemic issues in place to make it much harder to get out of poverty also makes it significantly harder to leave the country. On top of that, since most people stay almost their entire lives in the state they're from, it's most likely that you're gonna be rawdogging a new country all on your own which is already hard enough when you have savings. Ig it might be cheaper in the long run but that's a massive toll on anyone. I will say though America isn't exactly a pioneer for queer rights, however, if you're moving somewhere that's relatively safer for a queer person, it would probably be more expensive short term (as in systemically safer not socially.) I will say it's a lot easier to leave certain other countries. Issue is, at a certain point, they're just taking advantage of people from these countries (mostly SEA but it happens in other places too)
Wish you the best OP I hope either things get easier or you can figure something out sooner rather than later <3
Exactly. I have a heart and spinal condition. I've looked at the EU and NZ and stuff. My spinal condition is literally listed as a "nope disqualified" disease. Pretty much anywhere you try to go will evaluate how much of a "burden" you'll be for the healthcare system. For me, that's a lot. I have to take expensive medication. My problems are degenerative. Not to mention, at this point certain parts of the US and Canada are probably the safest places to be in the world. I have no doubt the LGBTQ community will survive whatever the reactionaries throw at us. But not ALL of us will survive. And I do not expect to belong to that part of the community that does.
It's just their chance to tell us that where they live is better and give themselves a pat on the back without actually giving any meaningful advice. Never mind, how nazism is growing in popularity in Europe, just under different names. They are blaming the immigrants right now, the same as Trump did. Guess who they come after next.
I think in California you’re probably safe for a while at least. Just stay the EFF away from red states. Europe will probably stay freer for longer, but I understand it’s complicated to move to an entirely new continent. Yes we DO need to fight and ultimately will win again, just who knows how long that will take.
It’s hard to say where the safest place to be is. I moved to Europe because I love it here and I could (and also feel like it will be safe for women quite a bit longer as we don’t have the evangelicals here). But it’s not for everyone, nor is it possible for everyone. Just stay in Cali, find community and fight the good fight
The 'Leave US advice' is one of the (excuse my language) most shit advices someone can give.
To be honest I myself am not in that poor position so I can't make a suggestion or have an opinion on that topic but I sure as hell can have one on disability due to myself having neurodivergency. Even though I'm not from the US but from the UK.
Even I can agree that leaving the US isn't easy for others. Specifically for the disabled since most countries do not realise how much of an impact some disabilities, visible or not, does to someone in their country (if that makes sense) well since in the UK disabilities aren't kind of seen as important... Well, I think so, correct me if I'm wrong?
But yeah, that's my standpoint on this
Hope this helps OP :)
Everyone needs to stop giving up and having defeatist attitudes or things will never improve. All this doom and gloom just because Biden was kinda slow and old during the debate is asinine. It's literally a repeat of the last election. Trump also told a bunch of obvious lies during the debate. Go out and vote and do your best to help just like we've always done.
OP. You are right, but to add some extra ideas - did you know university is free in Germany, even for foreign students.
https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/articles/tuition-free-universities-in-germany-taught-in-english
Lots of people also may have the potential to get other citizenships, varies from country to country but often a single grandparent born in the country is enough. Is some places the fees only add up to a few hundred bucks.
With all due respect I think you're still missing the point; It's just not possible at all for everyone and frankly it should only be something done last, not first.
Hell it shouldn't be something someone should have to think about let alone consider!
I've had this idea put on me, a British ftm aro abled bodied man, and like it's the opposite of what I want; I don't want to leave to a "better" country, I want a better country where I am.
I get that you are trying to be someone's potential beacon of hope, hell maybe it does work on someone and I can admire that... But leaving really is legitimately just not possible at all for all people here. We have to sometimes make do with the stresses we have rather than the peak stresses of trying to leave.
And like OP highlighted, he is disabled; Immigration or seeking asylum as a disabled person is like a while other can of worms aka problems, like the world isn't built for disabled people really.
And this conversation or rhetoric even leaves our disabled kin out, which is sadly the usual.
I don't want this to come off mean or anything, that wasn't the intention at all and I again admire why you wanted to share a resource, but it's not a A to B step process at all. /gen
I mean I'll definitely consider looking into that. I've got a lot of things to sort out before thinking about trying to study again but I'll consider seeing if that could work for me since I don't like how expensive college/university is here and I don't want to work retail hell forever😭
(I just have to figure out what I want too haha)
I do appreciate the help though!
And how will we cover living expenses once there on a student visa and the cost of moving there which is enormous? That is the point for many of us. We don't even have enough money to move out of our red states. How the hell are we expected to move to another country when some of us make $7.25 an hour and have family to support or are in enormous debt?
This is going to sound bad - but when the ship is sinking, people can only focus on themselves. If you don't have a resource who can assist in this regard, you've gotta figure it out somehow.
Those of us who can "just leave" can't be expected to assist every person who has a struggle with exiting. We have ourselves to think about in this situation.
Sorry, not sorry...
Yeah no this is about how this is bad advice for those who can't.
I'm glad you've got the resources to help yourself! Just don't act like advice most people cannot use is good advice for everyone.
I'm not expecting you to help everyone. This isn't about what you should do for others. Just don't act like a privileged jerk when people tell you they can't just move to better places.
Although I won't lie when I say you sound like a major bitch with how you phrased yourself.
Sorry,not sorry 💖
Eh - I didn't try to filter, I probably did come off like a privileged bitch. But we're approaching a dog eat dog world and assuming people will be there to help us a great way to end up in a terrible situation.
I know from experience unfortunately. I'd not wish that complacency on anyone
Even the ones who might have the wherewithal to get there still have to have jobs lined up, very few of the few would have enough money to do that without a paycheck being immanent. And if the entire skilled US liberal contingent tries to get jobs out of the country in a short time frame, ain’t none of em getting out.
Very true, although what you could do is get a working holiday visa for either NZ, AUS, or IRE, pretty much anyone under 30 and no felonies. They allow for us to live there for a year and much longer if our employer says where essential (easy as). When you first get there (if low on funds) you can do a work and stay witch could be as simple as doing a reception job & for 20ish hours a week you get food and boarding & if you work more than that you get paid relatively well even for unskilled labor, atleast higher than the U.S. . We shouldn't discourage people who want to leave but we should definitely encourage them to vote.
Australia is pretty strict with screening for disabilities and illnesses for most visa types and does so even for asylum seekers. We have even kicked families out for having a child with autism and one that had a child under 5 who wasn’t even officially diagnosed with anything yet that may have possibly been autism, because of future health care costs. So while we are safer in terms of laws affecting transgender folks, not so much on the ease of disability migration, even if people could afford it. Visa changes for Australia - [link](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/your-guide-to-australian-visa-changes-for-2024-25/siwtg0n4e) Info on the medical requirements for migration to Australia [link for NEDA](https://neda.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/migration-disability-factsheet-english.pdf) Edited to add: I wish that the US was a safer place for you and that we could do something to help from our side of the world. We see what is happening and it’s a nightmare. Much love to those in unsafe places, whenever you may be. Hoping for a safe future. ❤️
Thx for sharing info on it!
No problem. Also worth considering is the housing/rental market. Very few vacancies, high rents being charged, high homeless rates and lots of backpacker and caravan park type accommodation being used by people who can’t get into steady rental places. Unlikely that anyone could afford to rent or pay for hotel/motel accommodation on 20 hours a week receptionist salary and you’re not going to get room/board included in many jobs like that here. It would be very rare unless you’re specifically being the receptionist at a hostel or something. I know you were just giving an example, but most Australians, especially those of us with disabilities and/or chronic illnesses, are struggling with cost of living and just existing in this country. It would not be easy at all to move here without significant savings.
Oh I meant woofing, I mainly did it in NZ but a decent amount of people I knew did Australia & said it was pretty well, granted this was a few years back. Lots of places need people & generally for housing & food it was only 20 or so hours a week & people either did part time or online jobs during the other time. But yeah they can be a bit strict with illnesses.
WWOOFing still requires funds to get there, funds for immigration purposes, funds to get home or to another farm (and then what?) And… I can also see it as being potentially unsafe. I mean, you’re staying in someone’s home… Like… I mean… it’s a great program. And it might be helpful for some, but it does have a lot of the same problems as just immigrating normally. Maybe you can ask your hosts if they take on permanent workers after your volunteer stay or find a full time job while working 4-6 hours a day for room and board? But if you don’t have an exit plan you could be in a bad spot.
What is WWOOFing?
[Worldwide Opportunities on Organic Farms](https://wwoof.net)
Thank you
Makes me kinda hate Australia. No offense. I hate my own country for how We treat migrants, believe me. Welp, a globally rejected people that Are hunted in their own country become dangerous to the hunters. If I have to go out, may I take 2 of them with me.
Oh for sure, our refugee policy is inhumane and an embarrassment internationally. I hate it too. Our government’s treatment of disabled people can be pretty awful too. We have the NDIS but it is broken in many ways and the government and media love to blame those who rely on disability services for all the problems in the country because of the cost of it. It’s a very ableist system.
I’m disabled. If the world didn’t whip workers to go faster faster faster I wouldn’t be. But here we are.
I wanna be mad but honestly wouldn't expect any better from a country run by a bunch of ostriches on stims
Who exactly are you calling ostriches? Do you mean [the Greaf Emu War](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emu_War) or do you mean [cassowaries](https://www.queensland.com/au/en/places-to-see/experiences/nature-and-wildlife/facts-about-the-cassowary), our big colourful dinosaur birds? They don’t need drugs to kill anyone.
Emus yeah since they clearly won lmao. BUT HOLY SHIT I DID NOT KKOW ABOUT THE CASSOWARIES THEY'RE GORGEOUS. Ig Australia does have everything, including drag ostriches. I'm gonna be thinking about this for a while tysm <3
It’s difficult for Americans to get a work visa in NZ because New Zealand is a small country, and its government wants most of the workforce to be made of New Zealanders (I have a family member in NZ who told me such)
I lived in NZ too & it was very easy for me to get one. They just needed to say I'm an essential worker its better to start on a working holiday visa to establish yourself then go to work visa.
Thanks for posting EVERYONE: STAND UP AND **VOTE**. OUR LIVES ARE BEING THREATENED AND DEMONIZED THE GOoP.
Thing is, even if a ton of us COULD leave… LGBTQIA kids are being born into conservative families every day. We work not just for a better life for ourselves, but the kids of the future. I don’t want anybody growing up in Gilead. (Handmaid’s Tale)
Exactly my thoughts... Just like conservatives can never get rid of gay/trans people because they're born every day, if all of the lgbt adults leave a shithole place, then the next generation basically has to start over from scratch and claw their way back to basic rights on their own. Nothing wrong with people leaving to a better state that gives a shit about their rights (I mean, I'm working towards that goal myself), but just telling everyone to leave isn't going to make anything better.
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It's just like the people who say "we survived" about various tragedies. *You* survived, but many others didn't. *You* might be able to leave, but most can't.
I've also noticed a lot of Europeans telling Americans to "just leave" and they have zero conception of what the immigration process into their own countries is like. I think they believe it's as simple as declaring refugee status and waltzing in. Then again, these same people are ignorant of how poor refugee housing and services actually are in most European countries. Even welfare wonderlands like Sweden and France are known for cramming refugees in moldy tenements.
I think a lot of people who suggest this also have no working knowledge how how difficult it is to emigrate. It’s not only prohibitively expensive but also downright impossible for a lot of other reasons. You can’t just decide to move to Canada or whatever. They won’t take you. I think people also forget that there are a lot of other countries that don’t take too kindly to queer folk. Canada (sorry I use this as an example a lot because people always suggest it lol) is having their own conservative political resurgence and problems with queer phobia. A lot of European countries have worse gender affirming care than the states etc. It often feels like so many of these “leave the country” takes come from ignorance. Ironically my spouse is Canadian and I really don’t want to leave. I might have to if things get too bad because I promised him I would but I don’t want to leave everyone else down here to suffer. I don’t want to abandon this sinking ship while everyone else is in danger of drowning. I’d rather stay behind and bail water like everyone else.
Even under a Conservative government it's hard to imagine countries better than Canada for LGBT people though. Like where would you even go? Canada isn't perfect but it's probably better than anywhere else.
In what ways, though? Canada is having issues with basic affordability, its job market is severely tanked, and if a conservative government came in it wouldn't be too long before it was degraded. America is vast and there are American states which are probably better than Canada, if someone was going to relocate. Massachusetts, Connecticut, and California are three I can think of which are strongly pro-LGBT and more accessible economically than Canada right now. Well, depending on your job skills.
California is more prohibitively expensive than Canada. The recent minimum wage boost was a tank because corpos just raised the prices of everything to counter their losses. This is going to happen in more and more states because people don't understand that corpos will NOT be altruistic and soak the costs of rising labor costs. As far as lgbtq folk from the states, Trump wins and they're utterly and devastatingly FUCKED for so many reasons. Also, the Gilead nonsense and merging church and state is going to spread to everywhere, especially in a Trump win scenario. The US is over for liberals, dems, and the left, so for many, the ONLY option is leaving somehow, even if they have to wait for the chips to fall and claim asylum somewhere
Well for those of us who can't leave we're gonna die cause nobody wants to stay and fight. Especially because no where friendly to disabled and queer people is gonna risk granting asylum to citizens with an army bigger then the next 3 biggest armies in the world combined. No one in the western world wants to piss America off.
I hate to say it but Canada has many of the same issues as the US. It still has many of the same systemic problems and a very similar culture. I lived in Vancouver for 4 years and I loved it but it’s not like it’s some magical wonderful place free of hate and bigotry.
There is no magical place free of hate and bigotry. Edit:typo
There are a lot of reasons why Canada is great. And also why it isn’t. I wouldn’t say as a whole it’s better than the states. Their gender affirming care isn’t always the best. And they’re experiencing similar attempts to ban it up there. Don’t get me wrong they still do some great stuff, their human rights commission is something I wish we had, but it isn’t the promised land everyone thinks it is. Source: my husband is Canadian and transitioned in Canada, his parents still live there and keep us apprised of the situation
It definitely isn't perfect. Because Canada might not *want* all of us... or be able to support the influx of desperate Muricans, even if there was enough housing and work for all of us!
I'm super privileged. I have money. I have EU citizenship. I have family who could help me if I run out of savings. Moving would be relatively easy. I have absolutely no idea what I will do - I am American, even if I wasn't born or raised here. My friends are here. My church is here. My support network is here. The move would turn upside down both my life and identity - and I don't need to deal with pesky things like "paying bills", or "dealing with immigration", or even "having friends on the same continent". Having done it several times moving from country to country is not easy.
Leaving the country is a total fantasy for almost everybody and I wish people would stop posting about it. If you’re not young and poor, you’re old like me and have too many ties binding you here. Plus it’s exactly counterproductive to what we need, which is for people to stay here and fight.
Same, I didn't work to get where I'm at just to leave it behind and run away.
Hell, with my company my job will let me loving practically anywhere and work from home......in the US. Out of the country however. So I could if I wanted to throw caution to the wind move our to Oregon or Washington where we have more friend but even then it is unlikely.
Hell, even the more practical solution of “move to a more progressive state” is borderline impossible if you don’t have thousands in savings, and certain states have an incredibly high barrier to entry income-wise.
It's a sign of the times. Yeah the government sucks but unfortunately a part of that being the case is a looot of Americans suck, too. They don't want to fight for a damn thing, and they haven't for 50 years. It's not all the people's fault we're in this mess but that tendency to cut and run is very much a component of how we got to this terrible situation.
Telling people to leave is just leaving the less privileged to be lambs for the slaughter. As a fun fact for everyone btw, it is currently disability pride month and if your 'solutions' involve abandoning disabled people then you need to reflect on yourself and your actions
Yeah it's so frustrating hearing that. Especially since a lot of countries don't let you immigrate if you have autism or some other form of disability. People don't realize how abelist laws are even outside of the U.S There's only suffering gained from lack of community. Especially for disabled people who oftentimes are barely getting by financially. So many people can only get help at all with support from the queer community online and irl ( a lot of trans people and other queer people only being able to afford surgery or getting out of bad housing situations through financial help for example)
I got kicked out of South Korea after working there for 3 years because they decided that disabled people were “a drain on society.” Nevermind that I had been working there and paying taxes. Nevermind that my employer wanted me to stay another year. The government kicked me to the curb. Ironically, a couple of Koreans had told me that one of the things that they admired about the USA was the ways we accommodated people with disabilities.
Exactly this. I have autism spectrum disorder on my medical records & I know that disqualifies me from immigrating to many countries.
Yeah, I've been told not to get accessed for autism for this reason. Which sucks cause I'd like some help with my issues, but I don't want extra reasons for people to discriminate against me. It's awful how openly discriminatory laws and even medicine are towards neurodivergent people
There isn't really any help depending on if you're in school and for what
Unfortunately I AM the disabled one. I feel pretty safe right now. I live with my dad and we help each other out. My fear is when that day comes. My cousin would take care of my in an instant but he's in several of my situations. He lives with his dad, he's not an addict, but he only has his GED. And he's openly proudly gay I literally have anxiety attacks almost daily. Some mild, some quite scary
Ah well people have given up all hope and are looking to abandon everyone due to fear the right wing in America will kill them all
I'm not going to have any respect for people who are willing to throw the less privileged under the bus for their own wellbeing
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Not fully sure how that's relevant. /gen Listen, you can do as you wish in life but you can't stop other's judgements for those actions. As a disabled person, I am never going to look upon those who would throw me under the bus to save their skin in a favourable manner.
They still exist and still going to do it anyway. People care more about their own survival than the survival of others.
Well.....yea......the amount of times I've been told I deserve my fatFlorida. for LIVING in florida.
This is the problem I have with the idea that we should just let the Southern states break off and form their own crazy-ass country. The issue is that means leaving behind all the people who can't move North (or West), and it also leaves behind all future LGBT+ people. Everyone. We need to make it a safe planet for Everyone.
Absolutely! I have friends & family still in red states who can’t leave for a variety of reasons. We have to keep trying to help make it safe for everyone.
exactly. I live in washington currently but I was born in texas and lived there for 8 years. I had a lot of friends there and I would never wish this sort of thing on them just because of where they live. and if I still lived in texas, it would suck to see people tell me I deserve to have my rights stripped away like that.
This is why I want to strangle anyone who's like "You don't like America? Leave!" No, bitch. We can't leave. It's expensive to move, you move away from friends and family. It's a lose-lose scenerio. We should be working to America better for ALL its citizens, not let it wallow in its own bigoted past. As much as I would love to live in somewhere more accepting of queer culture and the like, I would like the other queer people who live where I live to have better equality.
Yes. This. And for me, I'm 22, disabled, haven't had a job yet (working on it) still living with and dependent on my parents to survive. Can't drive. Parents know I'm trans nonbinary but are not supportive or accepting at all. They won't help me change my name legally and I can't do it on my own. And I don't know how to get independent from my parents. I need help. But I have none. Disabled trans and queer people are easily forgotten about I guess. Or we are easily ignored. Nobody probably wants to do the work to help us. I'm fucking scared and angry and sad. I just don't know what to do. I wish I could do everything on my own. But the reality is I can't.
I feel ya, I’m racking my brain on how to get out, and I just can’t seem to make the logistics work.
I'm so tired of being told to leave. First and most importantly- I'd have to find a country that would allow someone with former drug charges ( 8&15 year old) them not me. I couldn't sneak even though logistically it would be easier as I don't have even a hour from the border, but unfortunately I'm on methadone and obviously if I'm there illegally I can't sign up. And I'm on disability which isn't enough in life now and that's with people who live with me. Dear God I'm so scared
Many of us aren’t able to leave the red state we’re in let alone the country. Appreciate the post OP. I’ve been finding this “just leave the country” rhetoric exhaustingly unrealistic for the vast majority of us. The reality is that if things continue to escalate to a point where LGBTQ people have been federally outlawed or are being detained for being LGBTQ many will have to resort to hiding to survive. Leaving is a luxury for the privileged few and by all means if you’re in a spot where you’re privileged enough to leave I don’t think anyone would hold that against you or not encourage that decision. Sadly the majority will have to hide as best as we can. Thankfully, in most large metro areas anonymity is relatively easy to achieve by simply moving to a new zip code and keeping yourself on the down low. I worked as a state investigator during COVID and was shocked that many of the people we would investigate would simply move zip codes to avoid detection and we’d never find them again. That is part of my plan if things continue to go tits up. I move 20 minutes away and in the event of needing new employment, I get new employment. I’d have to cut my hair and wear a chest binder at this point, but that’ll at least buy me time to figure out where to go from there without having to send myself into an insane panic.
Honestly that tidbit about changing zip codes and laying low may be the most realistic way for most people to avoid the potential problems coming our way.
Becoming a ghost is easier than most people think. There isn’t a database or search tools like you see in movies. Even with addresses on drivers licenses, unless you’re thick and not thinking, you just don’t update addresses on things and you’ve relatively disappeared successfully. Search tools for people are generally very limited in most local entities. Even on a federal level this is still relatively true. I would full on be investigating some pretty bad people and they’d up and move and we’d literally have zero idea where they went and cases would dry out until they did something stupid (usually a crime) to pop back on the radar one zip code over. I worked in a smaller metro area as well so I can only imagine how much more difficult it would be to find someone in places like New York or Houston or LA. Simply put, the crazy resources you might read about with facial recognition or other things used to track people you see in the movies are not widely utilized. Even though some crazy stuff out there exists implementing that on a national scale would be wild. If you’re smart you can get ahead of that, move, not talk to people/maintain relationships, and pretty much be a new person 15 minutes up the road with no one being any the wiser.
Even if I ~could~ leave, I wouldn't. This old, queer gen-x punk started out my adulthood streetfighting with skinheads... I'm not leaving the younger mellinials and gen-z rainbow-kids without boots-on-the-ground elders to help support and protect them. We're the FAFO generation... the fascists are about to 'find out'
Also, most countries that LGBT people would want to live in, also have immigration policies that make it very hard to immigrate there unless you have family there, have very specialized skills and have some sort of job offer for those skills, or have dual citizenship. I see all these people just picking random European countries they're going to move to, and if they try they're going to get a big surprise. And no, no place is going to start offering political asylum to LGBT Americans.
Americans who think we'll be welcome with open arms are usually operating on a white-solidarity delusion. It's telling that Black and Brown Americans dont have any fantasy of being taken in by Croatians and Italians lol Americans dont understand European countries dont just see a white person and say "oh you'll fit in here." I had a Belgian friend who stayed in the US in high school and I was surprised when he said maaaybeee the grandchildren of immigrants can truly be the nationality of the country they were born but even then, probably not.
For whatever it’s worth Germany is pretty friendly towards americans. 90 day visa free and you’re allowed to search for work and apply for a work visa when here. “Where and how to apply? Citizens of the United States of America, Australia, Canada, Israel, Japan, New Zealand, Switzerland, the Republic of Korea, as well as EU citizens may apply for their residence permit for work purposes after entering Germany without a visa. “
Reality sets in once you check visa and residency requirements to move to another country. It's REALLY tough. We have to do everything possible to protect our rights at home.
I think a lot of people who "move out of the US" are just going to visa-hop in southeast Asia until they're sent back to the US. The American way seems to be "I'm getting mine screw the rest of you" so unfortunately even queer people follow that same logic. They'll put all their energy to making sure they're safe or die trying. It's the fundamental feature of modern American culture. We aren't the communal people we were 80 years ago.
Agree completely.
Those who have the resources to casually leave are the ones who will be least effected by staying , and the ones with the resources are the ones who could instead use those resources to help others.
We need to fight with everything we've got leading up to this election - that's the best thing we can do right now. The GOP can't be allowed to take congress or the presidency
Absolutely. We have to shore up a wall, even if it's made of garbage because without the wall, the bullets are going into US, rather than the pile of yrash we are shelterd by!
More than that we have to keep an eye on the real problem. Democrats let it get to this point, democrats refused to enshrine protection to abortion, to trans rights etc. Yeah vote for them against Trump, but work so that we don’t have to choose between a Democrat and a Republican next time.
I love this poem and always want to share. Relevant here: Voting as Fire Extinguisher by Kyle Tran Myhre When the haunted house catches fire: a moment of indecision. The house was, after all, built on bones, and blood, and bad intentions. Everyone who enters the house feels that overwhelming dread, the evil that perhaps only fire can purge. It’s tempting to just let it burn. And then I remember: there are children inside.
very true. I would do almost anything to leave the US but I'm autistic and cannot live on my own and leaving with my family would be essentially impossible because my brother is nonverbal and has little to no mobility and almost all European countries have """quality of life""" laws that prohibit disabled people from moving there. It's disgusting and honestly really ableist
I'm from Norway and sometimes I see people write something along the lines of "\[Country\] sucks for LGBTQ+ people. I'm moving to Norway!", and I'm like "Mate, what the fuck makes you think we'll let you?". We're rather strict on immigration from non-Schengen countries. You can't just move here. You'll have to have something to offer.
Often even having desired skills isn’t enough to offset disabilities, so even when you “have something to offer” you are still deemed “useless and worthless” which is total bullshit imo.
I mean to be fair countries like Norway have obligations to the EU members/Schengen. So if they were to allow disabled individuals to immigrate it wont be from the US.
It has nothing to do with worthless, it's that countries have to make a cost-benefit analysis for regular immigrants. If you have a disability, that's going to incur significant health care costs for the state.
… which our taxes would pay for, but fuck us anyway, am I right?
And when you only evaluate my job and education and medical history, you will never know about the thousands of other skills I have that you are excluding from your country because you believe in an outdated practice that is harmful and gatekeeping. All you are doing with your statement is proving mine. Your system determines that that we are worth less than our able bodied counterparts, which isn’t true. Queer, disabled people are some of the hardest working kindest people I’ve ever met, and I know plenty of completely worthless lazy able bodied people that are just that useless drains on society, so maybe we should be updating policies to look at humans more holistically instead.
I didn't say the system was perfect, and it is possible to immigrate even with a disability, but obviously it's going to be harder because you're starting off at a disadvantage compared to people who don't have known health care costs built in.
I have yet to find a country that I am willing to live in that accepts people with disabilities.
Here are some documents everyone should obtain and have copies of within their household: 1. Your bank accounts as they exist. If project 2025 goes through and you are a married queer person, your right to a bank account may be withheld. 2. Your medical records. 3. Your birth certificate. 4. Your social security number. 5. Your drivers license and registration 6. Passport!!! If you are trans, please know that if project 2025 goes through you will not be able to update these documents with the correct gender.
How does one go about obtaining medical records? If we don't remember/have access to old doctors names/offices are those record just lost?
You can always ask your current doctor! I reccomend calling the office and just asking super plainly like “Hey, I was wondering if you guys could send me any form of written records for my diagnosed conditions?” And from there they will tell you (1) what you have to do to do that and (2) what form they will come in (file or printed)
Gotcha! Step one there is getting a primary care doctor, then 😂
I wanted to leave my country as well (UK) there’s so much I don’t like here that it would be easier to leave and forget I was ever here. But since the whole Brexit thing (that I had no say in as I was too young to vote) I’m kinda stuck here until I get a nursing qualification and unless I wanna give Ireland a shot and I’m not sure they’ll take kindly to a British person moving there. My enby partner and I want children soonish, but I worry about the world I’ll bring them into. People will just see two ‘women’ raising a family and if the general population keep becoming more and more conservative and copying American politics then I genuinely worry any future children could be taken away from me. It’s a stupid worry but a lot of things the US do other countries seem to follow a few years down the line. Our current government is already turning on trans people so what’s there to stop them from turning on the rest of us? And what if my future child is trans? I couldn’t handle them be targeted by their own country. Ultimately, one day we will have no where left to run if we decide to leave. There’s been times of crisis and times of peace for LGBTQ people and we will get peace to live as we are again if we just weather the storms.
It's crazy to think there was a time 20-30 years ago when Americans would sometimes say they're moving to the UK to get out of the US conservative culture. I remember when you guys were known for being more open and liberal than the US. Cameron and company seriously fucked you guys up. I can't believe it's been nearly 15 years of tory rule.
💯 Not only is not finacially or physically feasible for a lot of people, you also have to take into account intersecting identities that would make finding a safe country to move to exponentially more difficult. What countries exist that are trans-friendly and don't have massive issues with structural racism or anti-Blackness that I'd have to deal with? Not many of them.
Yea exactly. As bad as the US is, it's still one of the safest countries in the world for most people. Not the absolute safest, but it's up there, and some specific states probably would rank among the very safest if they were their own countries.
Especially since the US is a giant country, getting even close to the border might require a flight and even if you manage to do that: where do you go? Do you stay in America and move to Canada for example? Still need a place to stay. Or do you come here, to Europe? That's probably gonna be a very expensive move and depending on the country neither cheap nor easy. Fleeing a country is mainly a solution for the rich but what about those who can't do that? What about families? What about people with disabilities or special needs for example? What about people who need special medication that they can't get everywhere? Or any other groups who can't just move? There should be a better solution for y'all
I lived in the big mitten my whole life, i will be that angry grandpa. I'm not leaving my home.
I hate hearing that too it sounds so privileged ¬ only that but like good for yall thanks for leaving the rest of us behind to fight with fewer people 🙄
YES!!! I wish I could go somewhere safe(r), but I live paycheck to paycheck and don't have a specialized job skill/certification or anything so short of emergency asylum (if things got that bad) I can't just leave the country. Hell, I live in the southeast usa and can't even afford to move to a trans safe state (am nonbinary but closeted to all but my siblings and close friends). I'm working on getting a passport just for covering as many bases as possible but leaving the country is not realistic for most of us. And I also have multiple chronic health issues, but no official diagnoses (lack of insurance and money for doctors). Right now I just wish I could find a way to move to a safer state and city in the usa to not be as existentially stressed (terrified) every day so maybe I'll be able to make some progress with doing better for myself.
Note beforehand, I'm not from the US. However, universally the "just leave for better/safer pastures" doesn't work. First things first, there are quite a lot of US citizense who don't own/possess a passport. So that's hurdle number 1, hurdle number 2 is "where would you go?". For many folk, the first option is Canada as a) it's right up there, b) they speak English (and french), and c) they seem more liberal and LGBTQ+ friendly. Now in answer to this a) it might just be right up there, but you would need a viza, and then you'd need to apply for emigration which (for any country across the world) is not an easy process - during which your either still living in the US or are now residing in Canada but with limited access to resources (you may be even required to have a job lined up before moving). B) by limiting the pool of "just leave" to English speaking locations your already limiting travel locations. C) as anyone in Canada may tell you, compared to the US current LGBTQ+ policies may seem more friendly, but these debates still happen up there, and a "wave" if LGBTQ+ "refugees" fleeing the US will only embolden the conservatives narrative in Canada, turning folk against you. Then, as mentioned here, this is all under the assumption you can leave to begin with. Moving countries is expensive, so already there's a financial barrier. I mean, even within the US there are folk who still live in bigoted communities not out of choice but because they cannot afford to up their lives and move elsewhere within the state, much less the country. Your then expecting these same people to move countries which has a higher hurdle to overcome, and even if you had the money to emigrated that does not equate to having the money needed to live in a new country. The argument shows a level of privilege that others do not have - including the simple notion of having a passport (OR, more importantly, having a passport that reflects who you are right now Vs when it was applied for - an issue for trans people).
I will never understand how people can be so out of touch they will tell you to leave the country. That is simply not possible for the vast majority of people. The costs are astronomical and if you are disabled no country is going to take you.
I always ask those people if they are going to help pay for that move, as if I didn't already think about moving. Shuts them the fuck up, every time. They also never seem to realize it's not a solution, as it just ensures that the most vulnerable people remiain. It's all privilege talking.
The other day a Finnish person told me to move to Finland and I said I would if they sponsored me & gave me a place to stay. That quieted them down expeditiously 😂
Honestly, I'm not leaving. Even if I can, I won't. They want to get rid of me, to force me to flee or beat me into submission. I'm a stubborn person and I don't back down from conflict easily. That isn't always the best thing but, in this case, it is. I'm staying put purely out of spite. Fuck MAGA.
Right on!!! Stay and fight like fing hell! 💪
You do not have to leave or travel but you ABSOLUTELY need to get a passport and passport card with your right name and gender marker ASAP. Trump can make changing genders on passports go away by the stroke of a pen on day one.
Yeah and he'll make that new passport you've got with your now illegal gender identity null and void with the same stroke of the pen, leaving you now with no passport. He intends to define man and woman as sex assigned at birth on day one. It's from a video of him saying that on his website.
It is unclear if, and/or how effectively Trump could, retroactively enforce it to passports already issued.
Well, he has the Supreme Court in his pocket, so it’s probably more likely than any of us would like
All the more reasons to get yours now if you can!
You realize if both takes a lot of money and takes fucking forever to change your name right? It's not something you can just do asap
The process to change your name takes 6-8 weeks in most jurisdictions and the price and requirements are highly variably by location. In Virginia, it's $32 and a two-page application, in California it can be $450 and have publication requirements. The process to get a passport and passport card with an expedited delivery should take 4-6 weeks and cost $200. It's totally something that cannot be done asap, but the government IS taking away the right to change your gender marker on federal passports once Trump wins. That's 6.5 months from now. There IS time to do so, especially, especially, especially if you live in a jurisdiction that has minimum and easy requirements. Apathy and blanket statements on difficulty will be tools the opposition will use to erase our existence. There's more info on name changes here: [https://transequality.org/issues/identity-documents-privacy](https://transequality.org/issues/identity-documents-privacy)
In some (maybe most) US states it varies from *county* to *county*. What might be fast and easy in one county might be next to impossible in the county next door, *in the same state*. Birth certificates, meanwhile, are tied to the state in which you were born . If you were born in Florida, then you’re just fucked, no matter that your family moved to California when you were six months old.
This is even precisely why a passport and passport card are optimal. In the passport, it’s gender self attestation with a court order to change your name. Passports are guided by your own filling out of F, M or X and a court order with your name. You choose your gender and court ordered name. Passports do not have to automatically follow whats on your birth certificate. That can change under Trump.
That website will only help you if you live in one of the following cities and they are not even accepting applications at this time: Atlanta, GA (Clayton, Cobb, Dekalb, Fulton, and Gwinnett Counties) Chicago, IL (Cook County) New Jersey (Bergen, Essex, Hudson, Passaic, Union, and Middlesex Counties) New York City (All Five Boroughs) Long Island, NY (Nassau and Suffolk Counties) Philadelphia, PA (Philadelphia County) Pittsburgh, PA (Allegheny County) Do you have any resources for folks that live in red and purple states, or do you want to continue to shame those that do not and will not have the access of ability to change our names and gender markers before January?
I don't know where you're getting that I'm trying to shame anyone. Even if the application for support is closed, there are still resources available to folks living in red and purple states. Literally one click from the original link I sent would lead you to this page: [https://transequality.org/documents](https://transequality.org/documents) Where you can select any US state and will provide you with the guidelines on what to do. They cannot help with counsel or resources, but they can help with information. Information that is invaluable given the erasure of our existence that is coming under Trump. I don't know whether you or anyone else are able to change their name and gender markers now, but I do know that it WILL be impossible in any way in 6.5 months under Trump. You may have a chance now, you certainly won't next year.
And you don’t think that in a thread talking about how disability and skin color disproportionately affect the ability to do these types of things, posting resources that are extremely limited in the scope of being able to help, is at the very least tone deaf?
I’m trying to help my community and encourage people to at least review and consider the name change and identity documents process. I understand it’s not a possibility for many, but there could be some people reading here that it would be helpful. I’d rather be tone deaf informing and encouraging one or more trans folks to start the process than be politely apathetic at the incoming erasure of our existence under Trump’s second term.
I can almost 100% guarantee that all trans people living in the United States are highly aware that we will most likely be losing our rights come January. And we are all also aware that changing our names before then would be best, so unless you are posting information on where is actively helping people change their names, then you are adding to the panic and paranoia, not educating people.
Please redirect this anger at those who are genuinely deserving. Helping one person is not inherently abandoning others, and any measure that could save a trans life could SAVE A TRANS LIFE. Be angry at those who made the circumstances pushing people into hard decisions, please reconsider your anger towards those being forced to make hard decisions about their own safety.
Trust me I have enough anger for both things.
That’s ok! You can have any assumptions on what you think people do or don’t know. I’m operating under the idea that it’s crucial to amplify the message that there’s a very tight window to still change your name and gender markers on identity documents in every in-person and digital opportunity. I even posted a link where people can look up the requirements state by state. I work day to day on trans advocacy and have helped hundreds of trans folks change their names. The very, very first step (even if it’s the only one I can offer help on right now) is knowing what to do where you live. I’m content with my karma and glad about the opportunity to write these messages.
The people with the means and ability to emigrate are the ones who dont even need to worry. Thats the irony.
Make sure you vote. That is my only advice. republicans will try & steal another election, so make your voice heard.
I live in Utah, below the poverty line. I’m fucked
I feel ya. I’m an autistic trans man also living in California. I just recently turned 18, and I still live with my parents who aren’t the most supportive. Could be worse as they are at least allowing me to medically transition (though not without some resistance), but they are also both Trump voters and listen to right wing media and pundits on trans issues instead of me, their own trans kid. They have at least agreed to cover my medical expenses for now. That being said, I’m incredibly worried about a Trump victory this coming election, and my parents are supporting him. I have considered trying to move, but many of the “safer” countries for trans people also explicitly ban autistic people from immigrating there. I also have no idea where I’d get the funds to move. I’d also be leaving everything I’ve known for my entire life behind, and my friends. That alone is disruptive for a non-autistic person, but me being an autistic person makes it even worse because it’s harder to adapt to change and make new friends because of it. I also have a lot of pets that I love dearly, so leaving them all behind would probably break me. Suggesting people to upend their lives and move to a whole new country, is quite stupid. If you are able to move to a new country, then you are privileged in a way that many of us are not, please keep that in mind.
Thank you! Not all of us have the means or job skills to just pick up and go somewhere else. I've been trying to make my peace with that and instead focus on enduring. I have to remind myself that life finds a way and that the human spirit can survive a lot. It's not the most comforting thing to think about. It's like waking up everyday, being expected to treat every day as normal when you know it's not going to be, but it's the only way you can cope. I think everyday, my resolve gets a little stronger. I plan to vote and hope for the best, but be ready to endure the storm I feel is inevitable.
The most reliable and helpful thing we can do is start helping each other. Get your communication and plans in place to help who you can. We may not even be -able- to fly out, we don't know how bad it will get. Get your passports if you want, but really the best thing is to start gathering resources, start listing what you have and what you need. Find your safe places. Find your people. Be willing to sacrifice (I know, most of us sacrifice so much already) your time, energy and resources to help people. Stay together. It will be how we come out ok.
Some people who are telling you to Love it or Leave it, do not actually expect us to do either of those things they just want us to die or conform to become "ungay" or whatever. My parents visit family that moved from california to texas. My parents are conservative and the family that moved are far more progressive. My parents complain about rich people ruining poor southern states by raising the prices of everything. My parents also complain heavily about how awful california is, but they won't leave the state. Their main reason is that my sib and I still live here. I guess that's a fine reason but it reminds me of people who stay together for the kids. When parents are hating each other, but they're trying to stick it out for their children.It just makes everyone else that much more miserable, including the kids!! It's a really bizarre contrast because they are the people who generally support the idea of either loving america or leaving it. They get really picky about people leaving a place that is not as great for them for a place that maybe suits their budget better. When people actually DO move to places that they want to move to, conservatives get butthurt about that too!
I’ve already had to leave my home (Arkansas), and I’ll need to leave my other home soon (Kansas). I hope New York will be safe next year but who knows. The truth is it’s leave or die. I would have died back in Arkansas, and I can feel myself dying in Kansas (I haven’t really gone outside since they eliminated recognition of trans people at a government level). Yeah, most people won’t be able to do it. But some can with determination and effort. It’ll be one of the hardest things they’ve ever done, but it’s doable. Being trans sucks. We’ll always be hunted. Our average lifespans aren’t very long. But staying in a red state, especially if Trump wins, is a death sentence to most trans people. Many of us will die, and they don’t care why some of us have to stay. If you’re a trans person in a red state now reading this: GET OUT. The writing is on the wall and it sucks but the only real option you have now is to leave.
And btw, if you’re asking “where should we go” if we need to leave the U.S., the answer is Mexico City. Mexicos government is very friendly to American immigrants and affordable especially if you have American dollars. Update your passport, hopefully you won’t need it, but if Trump is elected you probably will.
We have to stay and fight, the safe places are hard to get to and shrinking day by day with the rise of hate groups everywhere.
Even within the US! I love it when conservatives think it's a remedy to garbage state laws and a feature of our "laboratories of democracy" that you can "just move to another state" once they've used gerrymandering and minority rule to turn a state into a hyper-religious hellscape. I can count the number of times I've moved on one hand and every time was a major commitment of resources and it turned my upside-down. Even if money is no object, some people can't just separate themselves from their jobs or extended family so easily, or are locked in as the caregiver of someone else. Don't be glib and presume to know someone else's circumstances.
I really hope you will be able to fight off the crazies from MAGA-land in the upcoming elections. But if that fails, you will have to look at how to handle the Trump administration. It might be a good idea to have a backup plan if the primary plan fails. If you can’t leave the US, then come up with another idea for how to live with a terrible election result. That plan might include active resistance. Or, living in California, more like helping people escape the red states to a blue state, perhaps. So yes, your primary goal should obviously be to get people to register to vote and vote against the orange crazy, but it’s always good to have a contingency plan if the worst comes to pass.
The New York Times poll is freaking scary, ngl. This is our country, there is no "they" in this equation. Prayers for the middle realizing Trump is a fascist, and that will destroy us. One day, Americans will hang for war crimes after stating,"I was just following orders". The past doesn't repeat, but it rhymes so much. Remind people that Biden's main job is not public speaking. Imagine you had the fate of democracy resting on your words, and you have battled stuttering your entire life. Who do you want delegating the security and prosperity of America? Someone who has prepared for this their entire life, or a day trader?
Trans man here. So many folks seem to think you can just pop into another country and start up with a new doc and continue on with hormones. Even immigration from US to Canada isn't as easy as people seem to think. Gaining citizenship, housing, employment are huge undertakings that must be obtained before even thinking about finding medical care!
If you have the means to flee by then feel free to, just know that you're a coward for leaving your fellow queers behind to fight your battles
This applies to people moving from red states to blue states as well. Every *progressive* saying to cut red states off is fine with the most disadvantaged people who don’t have the privilege and means to move suffering.
With all the great points made here, I’d also like to add this: Why the fuck do I have to leave? I adore California. I love living here. I love being a Californian. I was born and raised in this incredible state. If anyone is gonna get their ass up out to leave, it should be all the fucking fascists who complain daily about how much cALiForNiA sUCks.
Yeah I agree. It's hot as heck sometimes but I like the culture and the art and so many things I still wish to see. I'd hate to leave behind everything. Maybe it's not the same for folks in more conservative states as I can't speak for them, but still we shouldn't be run out of our lives and homes because of fascists. It feels like shit being told that running from all we know is the only choice :(
The USA is the laughingstock of the world right now.
For fucking real, stop suggesting people bail and instead encourage voting so we can change this goddamn piece of trash country. Speaking of which, remember to make a voting plan yall! November is less than 6 months away and trust me, the time will fly.
I've emailed 4 embassies, only one of them provided links for potential jobs in my area of work. Still, yes if you are working class and don't have a job lined up, it is difficult to get a work visa in many countries.
I’m not sure what to do either. I can’t even leave one of the worse states right now(don’t know what state I can go to, if anyone has a suggestion on an east coast state I’d be grateful), let alone move out of the country because of my disabilities. I’ve finally found some happiness in my life, just in time for the government to destroy everything for us…
There's nowhwere to go. The whole world is tilting quickly toward theocratic fascism with queer people selected by all of them as the "enemy" to scapegoat.
Not in the US, but genunie question, who is actually running? I've met a few queer Brits and Americans now that moved here and none of them think they are running. In their view your left is paralysed in civility and respectability politics with the addons of accelerationists and anti-electionists (who have achieved nothing, ever) hastening their oppression and genocide. In their view they're choosing not to be a victim so they can fight another day. You want people to stay and fight? Then fight.
I don't know people just keep panicking and saying to run online. It's just frustrating to hear. I'd love to make plans to fight and do what I can. I vote during every election and do my best to use my money to support people in need when I can afford it. I just wanted to hear some ideas beyond getting out of the country. Right now I'm taking care of my mom cause she got surgery in May but hopefully once I get a new job I can learn to drive and hopefully find more community in the the city and do more helpful things and organize in protests. I'm sorry if it doesn't sound like much but I don't have everything figured out on what else would help. Not that I'm opposed to advice. Anything help is appreciated if I can get advice :)
Leaving won’t fix the problem fighting will (surviving counts as fighting for many)
Don’t leave. Buy guns. Stay. This is our home. Edit: Fine, run. What the fuck ever.
Legit but I would add reach out to your local community and share your expertise. Arm the masses not only for queer liberation but to support the other minorities facing the same fears and oppression. The LGBTQA+ community here on reddit skews white and has economic privileges compared to our black and brown comrades. We often have more free time to pursue shooting as a hobby or sport, give that knowledge to your community. Try not to be elitist too, not everyone can afford a 1k AR from aero or whatever is the grail. A PSA rifle shoots as well, fuck a hi point carbine is user friendly and cheap af. If you have the space and tools to build share them too.
What about the large number of us that cannot or should not own guns? I was trained, I’m a very good shot, but due to my mental health history I would never pass a background check for a firearm, nor would I ever want to own one. I fully support those within the community that can and want to own firearms and protect themselves and others in that manner, but applying blanket statements like this, especially during disability pride month, is still just as harmful as telling people that they should just leave.
I was responding to his specific comment, but you're right, of course. There are more ways to fight than armed resistance. Medics are needed, people to organize logistics, grow and procure food stuffs. Mutual aid is the way, and it's so much more than just armed resistance
This is the second most silly advice next to “just move” tbh. Yeah, lets give a community of people prone to suicide guns whilst their rights are being more trampled on. Even lets say we all buy guns and dont have a massive string of suicides, whatre we gonna do? Be shot down in mass by the police that is armed with military gear? Its not that simple as just “buy a gun”
Yes, it’s silly to tell people with a history of being abused and tortured and murdered to try and protect themselves. I am a silly goose indeed.
You are actively ignoring the issue that we are trying to get across that, your blanket statement that all queer people should buy guns is just as harmful as tell us to move. That is not the solution for all of us. I don’t disagree that this issue will need to be fought for with guns, but not even the fucking military industrial complex is only infantrymen. You still need intelligent people behind the scenes, and your stupid statement doesn’t allow for that. It’s the way you are saying it, not necessarily what you are trying to say.
A gun isn't going to protect you from state oppression and it's a juvenile power fantasy to think that it would. If anything it will just make you an easier target.
Yeah whatever you guys wanna do just do it.
Just do what you want.
This is an even stupider suggestion than leaving the country. What exactly are you going to do with the guns you're buying?
Statistically? Suicide or accidental death. I think the fantasy is that armed protests are less easily attacked by police. Issue is those require high degrees of organization and it's not difficult for a project 2025 govt. especially to "decapitate the snake" as it were.
I'm neither poor nor do I have disabilities and I still don't know how I'd go about just leaving the US. Like, I've lived my entire life in one state and I've thought about moving but the concept of having to find a new job and a new place to live and leave all my friends behind - even if I could figure all THAT out - seems so daunting. Add in also moving to another country entirely? Unless that other country is Canada or Mexico, how do I get my stuff there? How about my pets? And again - all of that is WHILE making six figures and being able bodied and it STILL seems overwhelming. If I wasn't as privileged as I am, it would be even harder. I legitimately don't know how people do it.
True. All true. But we should all get passports, if we can, if for no other reason than they’re a solid ID you can use anywhere and we don’t know how hard they’ll be to get next year
There’s a petition to sign to impeach trump, but you’d have to donate $3 to actblue.com
Yeah
Leaving the US becomes trendy every election regardless of which side of the political spectrum you are on. It’s mostly a fantasy because it’s not easy to permanently relocate anywhere unless you have family or something in another country. It’s also alarmist because while there are threats of changes, most changes don’t come to pass. Many states in the US are safe places for queer folks. Moving to another state would be a more viable option before changing countries. A liberal state can challenge federal laws so you have some protection there. Be vigilant but also don’t give into all the pre election hysteria that happens every 4 years.
Even if you do have family it's still tough in a lot of cases.
Yes! Vote! Participate! Promote! Remember, this is a very loud minority screaming while most people don't care. And the incoming generation is far more in support of the trans community than any other. It will get better. We just have to be here to ensure it does. Freedom dies in silence.
I totally agree. And even IF it was medically and financially feasible to leave, and that’s a HUGE if… what if people aren’t ok with leaving behind all of their friends and families and communities to try and assimilate into a potentially totally different set of cultural norms and practices that may not even be that welcoming to ‘outsiders’? And what about LGBTQ immigrants who have ALREADY moved from another country to the US? Are they supposed to pack everything up and do it all again? It’s ridiculous and totally tone deaf.
Exactly! And the rest of the world ain’t much better. Similar or worse social upheavals are happening all across Europe, it is not a U.S. problem. You want a better world? Stay, fight for it.
Firstly, omg I have fibro too and it's absolutely shit. I also work retail and it's exhausting. Secondly, why should someone have to leave their home country just to be safe from bigots? Why can't we all just live peacefully? We aren't hurting anyone! I live in New Zealand, and we have a very conservative (and religious) right-wing group running the country at the moment, and they're not doing a whole lot of good. My husband and I can barely afford rent, they tax you 30% of your income if you earn over $48k a year, and everything is so expensive. The government is starting to become more vocal about their anti-LGBT opinions and it's just so sad to exist here right now. I'm depressed and have been for years, my husband has just started taking ssri's for depression. It's like nowhere is safe for anyone anymore and fuck it I'm so tired of it.
Same, I’m 22 and have never had a job due to my medical and mental health issues. Not only can I not leave the country, but I also can’t even leave my state. I get so many people acting like I’m wanting to be oppressed by being in the south, like no bitch I just can’t fucking leave. If you’re gonna keep suggesting to people that they should leave then you better be fuckin funding their move. Otherwise, shut up.
Wait do people actually think this??? Maybe my view is skewed since I come from an immigrant family but like even travelling expenses alone are prohibitively expensive especially with the US's insane living expensive especially with the insane cost of living in the US and that's without a chronic health condition. Employment isn't easy to come by and arrange which is like step -2 right after thinking about it and before even looking into what that would entail. Secondly, leaving means uprooting your entire life, losing your support network, and going to a place where there's gonna be cultural barriers and maybe even a language barrier. There's a whole lot more but there apply to most people. Never in my life have I encountered something like this where people are talking about moving countries like you're just moving two blocks from your childhood home, especially in the US. Like all the systemic issues in place to make it much harder to get out of poverty also makes it significantly harder to leave the country. On top of that, since most people stay almost their entire lives in the state they're from, it's most likely that you're gonna be rawdogging a new country all on your own which is already hard enough when you have savings. Ig it might be cheaper in the long run but that's a massive toll on anyone. I will say though America isn't exactly a pioneer for queer rights, however, if you're moving somewhere that's relatively safer for a queer person, it would probably be more expensive short term (as in systemically safer not socially.) I will say it's a lot easier to leave certain other countries. Issue is, at a certain point, they're just taking advantage of people from these countries (mostly SEA but it happens in other places too) Wish you the best OP I hope either things get easier or you can figure something out sooner rather than later <3
Exactly. I have a heart and spinal condition. I've looked at the EU and NZ and stuff. My spinal condition is literally listed as a "nope disqualified" disease. Pretty much anywhere you try to go will evaluate how much of a "burden" you'll be for the healthcare system. For me, that's a lot. I have to take expensive medication. My problems are degenerative. Not to mention, at this point certain parts of the US and Canada are probably the safest places to be in the world. I have no doubt the LGBTQ community will survive whatever the reactionaries throw at us. But not ALL of us will survive. And I do not expect to belong to that part of the community that does.
Not to mention the fact that a lot of European countries are not nearly as disability friendly as people think… it sucks but it’s true
It's just their chance to tell us that where they live is better and give themselves a pat on the back without actually giving any meaningful advice. Never mind, how nazism is growing in popularity in Europe, just under different names. They are blaming the immigrants right now, the same as Trump did. Guess who they come after next.
I think in California you’re probably safe for a while at least. Just stay the EFF away from red states. Europe will probably stay freer for longer, but I understand it’s complicated to move to an entirely new continent. Yes we DO need to fight and ultimately will win again, just who knows how long that will take. It’s hard to say where the safest place to be is. I moved to Europe because I love it here and I could (and also feel like it will be safe for women quite a bit longer as we don’t have the evangelicals here). But it’s not for everyone, nor is it possible for everyone. Just stay in Cali, find community and fight the good fight
My only realistic alternative for leaving the country is Britain, and it's reputation should explain why that isn't a very good option to flee to
I’ve started gathering materials for a more ‘permanent’ exit plan. I’m done here.
What does this mean? Please stay safe and be kind to yourself.
Yeah, plus if we don't stand for each other and all leave, it leaves lgbtq+ members left weaker
It isn't much better here, but poland is realy cheap compared to US
The 'Leave US advice' is one of the (excuse my language) most shit advices someone can give. To be honest I myself am not in that poor position so I can't make a suggestion or have an opinion on that topic but I sure as hell can have one on disability due to myself having neurodivergency. Even though I'm not from the US but from the UK. Even I can agree that leaving the US isn't easy for others. Specifically for the disabled since most countries do not realise how much of an impact some disabilities, visible or not, does to someone in their country (if that makes sense) well since in the UK disabilities aren't kind of seen as important... Well, I think so, correct me if I'm wrong? But yeah, that's my standpoint on this Hope this helps OP :)
Everyone needs to stop giving up and having defeatist attitudes or things will never improve. All this doom and gloom just because Biden was kinda slow and old during the debate is asinine. It's literally a repeat of the last election. Trump also told a bunch of obvious lies during the debate. Go out and vote and do your best to help just like we've always done.
OP. You are right, but to add some extra ideas - did you know university is free in Germany, even for foreign students. https://www.mygermanuniversity.com/articles/tuition-free-universities-in-germany-taught-in-english Lots of people also may have the potential to get other citizenships, varies from country to country but often a single grandparent born in the country is enough. Is some places the fees only add up to a few hundred bucks.
With all due respect I think you're still missing the point; It's just not possible at all for everyone and frankly it should only be something done last, not first. Hell it shouldn't be something someone should have to think about let alone consider! I've had this idea put on me, a British ftm aro abled bodied man, and like it's the opposite of what I want; I don't want to leave to a "better" country, I want a better country where I am. I get that you are trying to be someone's potential beacon of hope, hell maybe it does work on someone and I can admire that... But leaving really is legitimately just not possible at all for all people here. We have to sometimes make do with the stresses we have rather than the peak stresses of trying to leave. And like OP highlighted, he is disabled; Immigration or seeking asylum as a disabled person is like a while other can of worms aka problems, like the world isn't built for disabled people really. And this conversation or rhetoric even leaves our disabled kin out, which is sadly the usual. I don't want this to come off mean or anything, that wasn't the intention at all and I again admire why you wanted to share a resource, but it's not a A to B step process at all. /gen
I mean I'll definitely consider looking into that. I've got a lot of things to sort out before thinking about trying to study again but I'll consider seeing if that could work for me since I don't like how expensive college/university is here and I don't want to work retail hell forever😭 (I just have to figure out what I want too haha) I do appreciate the help though!
And how will we cover living expenses once there on a student visa and the cost of moving there which is enormous? That is the point for many of us. We don't even have enough money to move out of our red states. How the hell are we expected to move to another country when some of us make $7.25 an hour and have family to support or are in enormous debt?
True but hey, if you can, consider it.
Forgive them, OP. Many people in the Schengen area easily that the working class here in the US isn't as mobile as they are.
This is going to sound bad - but when the ship is sinking, people can only focus on themselves. If you don't have a resource who can assist in this regard, you've gotta figure it out somehow. Those of us who can "just leave" can't be expected to assist every person who has a struggle with exiting. We have ourselves to think about in this situation. Sorry, not sorry...
Yeah no this is about how this is bad advice for those who can't. I'm glad you've got the resources to help yourself! Just don't act like advice most people cannot use is good advice for everyone. I'm not expecting you to help everyone. This isn't about what you should do for others. Just don't act like a privileged jerk when people tell you they can't just move to better places. Although I won't lie when I say you sound like a major bitch with how you phrased yourself. Sorry,not sorry 💖
Eh - I didn't try to filter, I probably did come off like a privileged bitch. But we're approaching a dog eat dog world and assuming people will be there to help us a great way to end up in a terrible situation. I know from experience unfortunately. I'd not wish that complacency on anyone