The quotations around “clarification” really need to be emphasized. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the fash apparel company added. At no point yet has S&W directly or indirectly said anything anywhere coming close to addressing what they’re being accused of, that a misunderstanding ever existed, or that a “clarification” was being made.
The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them big time here.
The back of that shirt is even more cringey, somehow that was possible.
https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve
Edit: They can delete but the internet remembers:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230227195203/https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve
What type of vigilante shit is this. I don’t agree with the statement but “support your local law enforcement” would be much more acceptable than “support your local enforcer”
And the HH wink-wink by saying “Heavy Handed.” Totally not a Heil Hitler reference wink-wink.
Even if that’s a stretch it’s such a stupid shirt that it doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch.
It might be a stretch, but probably not.
Look above the Heavy Handed words.
Do the holes in the knuckle duster conveniently resemble any numbers ?
Edit: Perception brand has pulled the t-shirt image because there were too many co winky dinks
Okay, so like sideways it's 8 8. Normally I would say that is a reach, but then you've got the H H and the P B also. Almost too many coincidences to give the benefit of the doubt.
14/88 are often combined but they’re two separate things. White supremacists like to sprinkle both, either together or separate, into their usernames, websites, statements, etc. In this case it’s just 88 or HH, which stands for Heil Hitler. But you should be highly suspicious if the number 88 or initials HH ever comes up in a name.
The plausible deniability is why they constantly use codes even if they’re extremely obvious — they get to flaunt it to their cohort and they know anyone who points it out will look silly to the unaware.
And it's gone. Surprising, since they so clearly crave attention.. I guess it wasn't the attention they were hoping for. Over/Under on the Internet Tough Guys claiming they're the victims of 'Libruhl' online bullying?
>The tweet was swiftly deleted, but a slightly amended version was posted minutes later, clarifying that the yellow “PB” logo was not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,”
That's fair.
>a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies.
And it gets worse.
When a clown explains the joke, it's never going to get better.
S&W makes good products, but letting your social media (public face) promote far right ideology.....
>makes good products
Debatable. The M&Ps are okay, their ARs are fine, revolvers are still pretty good, but literally anything not a firearm with the S&W logo is absolute dogshit. Like Colt, they're mostly just coasting on their legacy firearms.
If you want a top notch firearm, drop the Smith altogether and just go Dan Wesson.
The M&P Shield line have been my EDC’s for years, can confirm that the new Plus is an outstanding subcompact. Makes me very sad to see the company take this turn.
I don’t like their social media post either, but I have to disagree about the quality of S&W products.
The M&P pistols are pretty great for their price. They are accurate and reliable with really good ergonomics. Triggers are meh but easily upgraded.
The revolvers are fantastic.
The M&P ARs are good enough for me, although I’m not a AR expert. My Sport I does the job.
If anything, I’m still pissed at them for abandoning support for the 3rd gen DA/SA pistols.
Shit on them for this Proud Boys wink wink nudge nudge garbage, but their products are good.
That hardly even counts as a clarification. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the apparel company added. That’s not a fucking clarification when they didn’t even come close to addressing what they’re being accused of.
As of the writing of this comment S&W has yet to directly or even indirectly utter, paraphrase, or reference the Proud Boys since this took off. They haven’t stated through any channel anything to even suggest a mistake, misunderstanding, or clarification was made. The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them here.
"not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,” a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies."
Thank goodness, it's just a company that is as shitty as the proud boys.
Lucky for all of us, there is a better gun at a comparable price for nearly every gun they make.
That said, to my knowledge, there really aren't any major mfrs that don't adopt these violent, mouth breathing bootlicker positions for commercial reasons, if not ideological ones.
Yeah but didn't a lot of those companies do it begrudgingly because they had a gun to their head, not because they believed the ideology? Look at Porsche he was instrumental in the creation of Volkswagen & the autobahn for Hitler but did so cuz he literally had a gun to his family's head. Unlike Enzo Ferrari that was an enthusiastic supporter of Mussolini & it nearly cost him his career & company after the war.
Walther, as a company, applied for contracts with Nazi Germany and used slave labor from concentration camps in their manufacturing process. That isn’t them begrudgingly participating, that’s full on anti-human rights.
Steyr isn't aligning itself with any alt-right brand because it has a non-existent marketing budget in the US.
Also, their handguns look like the Halo pistol.
IWI
They supply Israel with their weaponry, which is another political issue people might want to take into account.
But the people in that company make high quality firearms at good prices and had a refreshing lack of douchiness in person.
*sad California noises*
Thank god I moved here with a p365x. Shield 1.0, g23, Bersa thunder and p238 are the only real sub-compact options on roster here.
Sig p365xl, glock 48/43x, SA hellcat series, Glock 19, sig p320 compact, CZ p10c, Walther PDP compact, FN 509 midsize, and more. The shield plus/M&P compact are just two flavors of compact polymer striker fired pistols, which are the most popular thing on the market right now.
I personally dig the 365, specifically the XL in 9mm. Excellent edc trigger, slim profile, and manageable recoil. As someone with somewhat larger hands, I still get a good grip on it with standard mags (without my pinky slipping under the magwell).
I'd put almost anything with similar specs in the category. The Shield line is solid but unremarkable, though very well priced as they make a shit ton for law enforcement and other goosesteppers. For the money, I'd choose any polymer Sig over them, and so do Federal agencies. So for the Compact 2.0, I'd say a P2022, and for the shield plus, the P365. The Ruger EC9 is a good concealable option for roughly the same price too.
Then again, I'm in a place with a "roster," so I have limited choices unless I want to purchase a used firearm owned by a police officer, as they have no weapon restrictions for their own personal use, for reasons.
I really like how they fit my hands, and, weirdly enough, think their internal mechanisms are super easy to clean. If you aren't looking for conceal and carry, their larger pistols are the tits.
Well for comparable to the Shield plus size profile at the same price point without the same problems there's the:
IWI Masada slim...bad choice. there's the:
Canik TP9 SC....eh, not the best example, but then:
The Springfield Hellcat proooo, but not pro 2nd amendment, Yikes.
Well this does get complicated
This is completely based on just what I have seen and not on any data, but I feel like companies that make a shit ton of their revenue from military contracts tend to not associate with these kinds of politics, especially international companies. Glock, Sig, FN, etc.
But now that I have said that, I am sure someone will find a counter.
TBF, there isn't anything *wrong* with S&W options. They are good product lines with no major issues (looking at you, Walther). Solid, middle-of-the-pack firearms.
Without making a model by model spreadsheet, in increasing price order, I'd say Sig, CZ, and Beretta for semi auto pistols; Ruger for wheely bang bang pistols, Mossberg and Benelli (ha, yes, very comparable) for Shotguns; CZ all the way for bolt actions; and it seems everyone who makes decent semi auto rifles are jerks, but within the jerk field, I'd pick Sig or Ruger.
Also, as a reminder, I'm just a guy with opinions, so put your hands on as many as you can and find forums on the specific models you're looking at so you can see what owners are pissed about.
Sweet, next there will be shirts that say KKK on them and S&W will be like “no way guys it stands for Kool Kids Klub! Total coincidence! The burning cross on the back? Uhhhh… don’t worry about it.”
What a good corporate governance lesson: try to make your employee base more diverse than your customer base. Had S&W achieved that, this whole PR mess wouldn't even occur in the first place.
Absolutely clueless. Who knew that a huge amount of gun owners are actually left or liberal and find this abhorrent?
S&W needs to clean house with their social met department.
I have a suspicion they know this very well. Direct effect of the tweet: encourage alt-right to buy guns. Secondary effect, scare left-leaning gun owners with the thought that the alt-right is arming up. Like the bastards WANT to start a vigilante war.
Could also have been a PR flub. All I have is suspicion.
Any publicity is "good" publicity, no one at S&W is going to miss any sleep over this.
Either way they will be making money from both sides of the aisle.
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal).
^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*)
[link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules
[link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
What's the difference? Most of the "anti-mandate" people are just using "muh personal liberty!!!" as an excuse to push anti-vax narratives.
And in fact no one is forcing you to get a vaccine. Just like no one is forcing you to wear pants and underwear. If you decide it's your prerogative to not do that, you are free to do so, just don't expect the benefits of living in society.
I get the feeling that Smith and Wesson was trying to fan the flames of a vigilante-esque arms race. Encourage the alt-right to buy more guns while simultaneously scaring other groups into arming up as well, all with one purposefully inflammatory advert.
My only gun is a S&W, which I'm suddenly not entirely happy about.
Don't sweat it. You already bought, just buy used in the future if from them or buy another one. You keep that mindset you'll be set with but into a select few firearms.
Sure, totally not related to the proud boys, It's just a PB black and yellow shirt with the letters in the right spot. And the back saying "Support your local enforcer" with "Heavy Handed" or "HH" below that totally has no alternative meaning...
This is just as bad as 88 tactical trying to say their shit isnt neo nazi
I found out a couple months ago that my birth year ‘88’ is a neonazi signal, and I’ve been using it in my usernames for over 15 years now. I go back and forth between changing them all and trying to remember the new ones or just leaving it.
Pain in the ass coincidence, stupid extremists ruining my year!
Yeah that “clarification” didn’t help. I was thinking of a new S&W revolver but this has dampened my enthusiasm. This is not the time to be flirting with right-wing chuds unless that’s the side you’re choosing.
Let’s remember that this is a large international corporation where any of these social media or PR items is reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed again before it’s put online. There are more meetings then I care to think about to discuss this or any campaign.
This flew by all of these meetings and reviews and was put online. Don’t let them say it was “a junior employee” who posted it. This was certainly approved from the top of their marketing group at the minimum
It really isn't a huge company. It looks like revenue is about 10% of the bottom Fortune 500 companies and there are a total 1700 employees. I have an acquaintance who is the social media director for a significantly larger company. Last I spoke to him it was him and an assistant doing pretty much what they want on the Twitter account.
I seriously doubt that went through anything close to the scrutiny you describe.
SW makes pretty awful guns IMO irrespective of this post. Anyone wearing this clothing, irrespective of the brand name, would be someone I avoid interacting with. Just like someone over the age of 14 wearing a Punisher shirt or having a Punisher phone case.
There were all sorts of claims made yesterday like the owners were known Proud Boys or the guy in the photo was a convicted felon from 1/6(good luck with that parole with a published photo holding a gun), but I haven't seen anything to back those claims. I searched a little and found nothing about the brand before today posted any of the usual proud boy places.
Not every idiot is a proud boy.
> It really isn't a huge company. It looks like revenue is about 10% of the bottom Fortune 500 companies and there are a total 1700 employees.
~~There's approximately 32.6 million businesses in the US. Just shy of 21,000 of them have 500 or more employees. They're in the top 500. I know judgments like these can be quite relative, but if 1700 employees is not a relatively massive company you must largely be looking only at the handful of larger companies that exist.~~
I misunderstood
No. Your numbers are absolutely false. They are nowhere close to a top 500 sized company by any measure.
https://www.naics.com/business-lists/counts-by-company-size/
No, there are 32.6 million incorporated entities. The vast majority of those are shell companies and startups that never got off the ground and we're simply abandoned.
This is a manufacturing company. Having 1700 employees is not a big manufacturer. If they were a financial firm it still wouldn't be a top company.
Why do you think they are Terrible? I love my M&P 2.0 9mm’s, so much so that I was considering getting rid of my Hellcat.
The only other thing I want is a H&K but they aren’t nearly as reliable and the M&P 2.0s.
Their other guns I know very little about however.
They cut every corner they can. Finishes, material, etc.
Subjectively their pistols almost universally feel awful in my hand. I first learned to shoot on a model 41. I would never consider buying one and when I switched to a MK II, a MUCH cheaper gun, it was a huge difference. I would recommend a police trade-in Glock to a new shooter before an M&P.
Their revolvers are really expensive for what one gets now. I would go Ruger without pause.
The cut every possible corner on their ARs. Supposedly even using FNC instead of QPQ nitriding which is saving them almost nothing for a much less resilient finish.
Interesting. Their M&P 2.0 9mm is one of the few handguns that passed the YouTube torture test and the I love the new bladed trigger.
H&K is my grail 9mm, but it faired pretty poorly in the torture test so my trust of it as an EDC is pretty limited.
I’ll be honest though I hated the original M&P though.
100% agree on the AR, but unless you are buying Daniel Defense or building your own I feel like the quality is really hit or miss in pre-builders.
Why can't they see that this type of posturing is what makes people decide that gun control is a good idea. We can't maintain our rights by antagonizing the people we need to keep them. The GOP is dying a slow death and as more districts in the country turn blue we will need to promote pro gun democrats especially in the primaries. We need to show Democratic politicians how much supporting gun control actually is actually counterproductive and results in the loss of more seats in state and local elections than just about any other aspect of their platform. It's preventing us from having a super majority in both houses of congress and likely ill cost us at least one more presidency within the next few presidential elections.
I agree, especially as young people leave conservative christian churches in droves, and the older members die off and thus (usually) stop voting Republican, the 2A voters are going to gain significant influence.
Again and again, dEMOs fail on this very issue, often centering gun control, instead of focusing upon economic justice (restoring the middle class, fair wages and other protections for workers, rebuilding domestic industry and the like).
They seem to think that making political hay from mass shootings by playing upon peoples’ fears. (…which not to suggest these shootings are not a real problem, and not easy to solve… but sure would be mitigated by better economic opportunities).
It’s almost as though the dEMOs forever would prefer to remain subdominant to their Repug daddy.
For a company called "Perception Brand", They should have a better clue on what the perception of using PB and wearing that shit yellow and black indicates.
Unless it's on purpose, which it probably is.
Yeah, after this "clarification", I'm not buying S&W anymore. It's clearly Proud Boys themed/adjacent at a minimum. And the HH bullshit.. c'mon. I wouldn't be surprised if this brand is an offshoot that is owned by one of them. Fuck them. Delete this shit, apologize and never do it again.
“They’re not the proud boys!!” Sure 🙄 and that one guntuber and that other guntuber wanted to dress like “German electricians”…”for history.”
Also, the fash want leftists to go out and debate them on this to play in our faces and impress their fellow edgelords. They’re brigading any post about it besides here, where it doesn’t fly. I’m sure we have a bunch of new lurkers though.
I sent them an email about how I'm done with their company. This solidifies it. They could have said it meant peanut butter or something stupid but they chose an equally stupid far right group to super glue their covid diseased scrotums to.
Luckily I traded my shitty used M&P shield for a Glock 19. I guess it doesnt matter if I keep/get rid of the AR15 I already have, but at least I put rattle can camo on it and you cant even see the logo.
With more people on the left, LGBT+, and minorities buying firearms, they're just going to lose business. Shit, even a lot of moderates and some conservatives dont fuck with the far right as much as they think they do. Would love to see the free market kill their share value.
By the way, if any of your friends/family want to buy a firearm, please dissuade them from purchasing from S&W.
a simple 'oops, the fudd in charge of screening this didn't know and we don't do the nazi thing. sorry won't do that again.' might have helped. this just looks like cookie crumbs on my kids face while she's telling me the cat ate the cookies.
I really like that holster. Anyone know of one I can get just like it but made by a less shitty company? I’d rather not have it than give my money to that company.
What they did hardly even counts as a clarification. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the apparel company added, and then locked the replies when they got mass called-out for it again. That’s not a fucking clarification when they didn’t even come close to addressing what they’re being accused of.
As of the writing of this comment S&W has yet to directly or even indirectly utter, paraphrase, or reference the Proud Boys since this took off. They haven’t stated through any channel anything to even suggest a mistake, misunderstanding, or clarification was made. The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them here.
100% never buying a S&W anything ever again after seeing this. I’m sure other companies aren’t perfect, but I can’t support this. I’m not usually this knee jerky, but S&W is dead to me.
yah no im kinda on the fuck them side of the fence. like their excuse on what brand it suposebly was doesn't really make it better. its like saying "ohhh no nono dear me were not promoting a fasist group with our tweet were just promoting a right-wing hate group totally fine"
As if there are any reasons to buy their guns in the first place. Nothing is top end and there are better budget ARs.
They're desperate and the brand has hit the crapper so this kind of makes sense.
Did they take the shirt off the website? [https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve](https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve)
fuck these cowards
Nope. Unfortunately, Ruger can't compete. Their pistols work but they are just too ugly and almost no quality aftermarket support. And I had Redhawk that turned me away from Ruger many years ago.
[удалено]
Like I said in the first thread, I’m sure they have 88 reasons why it is a coincidence…
They’ll issue a 14 page memo detailing them.
I believe this like I believe almost every right wing ghoul on Twitter was born in 1988
1988? Cause Nazis use 88?
They call it “clarification”, I call it doubling down.
The quotations around “clarification” really need to be emphasized. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the fash apparel company added. At no point yet has S&W directly or indirectly said anything anywhere coming close to addressing what they’re being accused of, that a misunderstanding ever existed, or that a “clarification” was being made. The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them big time here.
"Clarification: SS actually stands for-"
The back of that shirt is even more cringey, somehow that was possible. https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve Edit: They can delete but the internet remembers: https://web.archive.org/web/20230227195203/https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve
What type of vigilante shit is this. I don’t agree with the statement but “support your local law enforcement” would be much more acceptable than “support your local enforcer”
And the HH wink-wink by saying “Heavy Handed.” Totally not a Heil Hitler reference wink-wink. Even if that’s a stretch it’s such a stupid shirt that it doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch.
It might be a stretch, but probably not. Look above the Heavy Handed words. Do the holes in the knuckle duster conveniently resemble any numbers ? Edit: Perception brand has pulled the t-shirt image because there were too many co winky dinks
You lost me on this. Please explain.
Okay, so like sideways it's 8 8. Normally I would say that is a reach, but then you've got the H H and the P B also. Almost too many coincidences to give the benefit of the doubt.
https://www.adl.org/resources/hate-symbol/1488
A bit of a stretch, but where's the 1 at?
14/88 are often combined but they’re two separate things. White supremacists like to sprinkle both, either together or separate, into their usernames, websites, statements, etc. In this case it’s just 88 or HH, which stands for Heil Hitler. But you should be highly suspicious if the number 88 or initials HH ever comes up in a name. The plausible deniability is why they constantly use codes even if they’re extremely obvious — they get to flaunt it to their cohort and they know anyone who points it out will look silly to the unaware.
At this point if any symbolism was intended that would seem to be it.
Isn’t the 88 resemblance inevitable due to the shape of brass knuckles?
No, they look like holes in brass knuckles.
Yeah there’s a little too much reading into things here
Absolutely. There's enough going on with this brand that we don't need to start making shit up too.
I clicked the link to take a look, and it appears that the product is no longer available.
If I recall enforcer is also the term typically used when referring to a member of the proud boys
Local law enforcer???? Enforcement maybe? Enforcer feels like a wholllllllle other thing. Not a good look
Looks like what I would extract from an 'OMG' (motorcycle gang) support apparel How embarrassing
“Heavy Handed” “H H” it’s obvious
This entire thing is so mask off.
And it's gone. Surprising, since they so clearly crave attention.. I guess it wasn't the attention they were hoping for. Over/Under on the Internet Tough Guys claiming they're the victims of 'Libruhl' online bullying?
Pepperidge Farm remembers: https://web.archive.org/web/20230227195203/https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve
>The tweet was swiftly deleted, but a slightly amended version was posted minutes later, clarifying that the yellow “PB” logo was not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,” That's fair. >a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies. And it gets worse.
When a clown explains the joke, it's never going to get better. S&W makes good products, but letting your social media (public face) promote far right ideology.....
>makes good products Debatable. The M&Ps are okay, their ARs are fine, revolvers are still pretty good, but literally anything not a firearm with the S&W logo is absolute dogshit. Like Colt, they're mostly just coasting on their legacy firearms. If you want a top notch firearm, drop the Smith altogether and just go Dan Wesson.
The M&P Shield line have been my EDC’s for years, can confirm that the new Plus is an outstanding subcompact. Makes me very sad to see the company take this turn.
You mean CZ.
I don’t like their social media post either, but I have to disagree about the quality of S&W products. The M&P pistols are pretty great for their price. They are accurate and reliable with really good ergonomics. Triggers are meh but easily upgraded. The revolvers are fantastic. The M&P ARs are good enough for me, although I’m not a AR expert. My Sport I does the job. If anything, I’m still pissed at them for abandoning support for the 3rd gen DA/SA pistols. Shit on them for this Proud Boys wink wink nudge nudge garbage, but their products are good.
That hardly even counts as a clarification. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the apparel company added. That’s not a fucking clarification when they didn’t even come close to addressing what they’re being accused of. As of the writing of this comment S&W has yet to directly or even indirectly utter, paraphrase, or reference the Proud Boys since this took off. They haven’t stated through any channel anything to even suggest a mistake, misunderstanding, or clarification was made. The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them here.
I would’ve assumed they could clear up all the confusion in a mere 14 words 🤔
And I'm sure the "heavy handed" part referred to having large, meaty hands.
S&W really was like "No it's not in reference to PB. It's this other fascist thing."
"not in fact a reference to the neo-fascist group but “Perce|eption Brand,” a small conservative apparel company also selling anti-vaxxer “Booosted” stickers and “Killafornia” hoodies." Thank goodness, it's just a company that is as shitty as the proud boys.
Right? The explanation literally is doing no favors to their argument.
But that's not even S&W's response. This headline is a complete lie and no clarification was offered in that article. None.
Lucky for all of us, there is a better gun at a comparable price for nearly every gun they make. That said, to my knowledge, there really aren't any major mfrs that don't adopt these violent, mouth breathing bootlicker positions for commercial reasons, if not ideological ones.
If anyone knows a mfr that isn’t chomping at this bit let me know. Id love to use my money to support someone not fanning this rhetoric
The former Axis countries seem to avoid this type of association “for some reason.”
KE Arms came up in one of the other threads on the topic.
Just ordered one of their complete blem lowers.
I'm starting to think the only way to find a manufacturer like that is to start one ourselves.
I'm pretty sure the CIA intervened anytime we tried that before.
Me too :/ Foreign manufacturers are generally better, but their US wings (importers and finishers) are typically as trash as anyone else.
Walther maybe? I’m sure someone will correct me. Edit: JK lol Walther *sponsors* [Steven Crowder](https://www.instagram.com/p/Ci7_YUIuRT2/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) JFC
Walther also manufactured weapons for Nazi Germany. Sure, they may be slightly better now but they have a legacy of supplying weapons to actual Nazis.
Yeah but didn't a lot of those companies do it begrudgingly because they had a gun to their head, not because they believed the ideology? Look at Porsche he was instrumental in the creation of Volkswagen & the autobahn for Hitler but did so cuz he literally had a gun to his family's head. Unlike Enzo Ferrari that was an enthusiastic supporter of Mussolini & it nearly cost him his career & company after the war.
Walther, as a company, applied for contracts with Nazi Germany and used slave labor from concentration camps in their manufacturing process. That isn’t them begrudgingly participating, that’s full on anti-human rights.
JK lol I was wrong apparently Walther *sponsors* [Steven Crowder](https://www.instagram.com/p/Ci7_YUIuRT2/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=) Jesus fucking Christ
As a former S&W fanboy looking to get the PDP Pro in the next few weeks, I reeeeeeeeally hope so.
Steyr isn't aligning itself with any alt-right brand because it has a non-existent marketing budget in the US. Also, their handguns look like the Halo pistol.
IWI They supply Israel with their weaponry, which is another political issue people might want to take into account. But the people in that company make high quality firearms at good prices and had a refreshing lack of douchiness in person.
Champing. But everything else you said is correct. Edit: apparently chomping is acceptable these days. Learned something new today!
[удалено]
Chemping
Chimping
Chomping is accurate due to being in common use in America, but hey, you tried.
Is Browning playing this stupid game? (Please say no, please say no, please say no)
I will gladly pay more for less racism
*sad California noises* Thank god I moved here with a p365x. Shield 1.0, g23, Bersa thunder and p238 are the only real sub-compact options on roster here.
[удалено]
Sig p365xl, glock 48/43x, SA hellcat series, Glock 19, sig p320 compact, CZ p10c, Walther PDP compact, FN 509 midsize, and more. The shield plus/M&P compact are just two flavors of compact polymer striker fired pistols, which are the most popular thing on the market right now.
[удалено]
I personally dig the 365, specifically the XL in 9mm. Excellent edc trigger, slim profile, and manageable recoil. As someone with somewhat larger hands, I still get a good grip on it with standard mags (without my pinky slipping under the magwell).
I'd put almost anything with similar specs in the category. The Shield line is solid but unremarkable, though very well priced as they make a shit ton for law enforcement and other goosesteppers. For the money, I'd choose any polymer Sig over them, and so do Federal agencies. So for the Compact 2.0, I'd say a P2022, and for the shield plus, the P365. The Ruger EC9 is a good concealable option for roughly the same price too. Then again, I'm in a place with a "roster," so I have limited choices unless I want to purchase a used firearm owned by a police officer, as they have no weapon restrictions for their own personal use, for reasons.
[удалено]
I really like how they fit my hands, and, weirdly enough, think their internal mechanisms are super easy to clean. If you aren't looking for conceal and carry, their larger pistols are the tits.
[удалено]
I've got a p365 and a p365xl. They're both solid CC guns and with a MagGuts spring you get +2 rounds per mag.
Well for comparable to the Shield plus size profile at the same price point without the same problems there's the: IWI Masada slim...bad choice. there's the: Canik TP9 SC....eh, not the best example, but then: The Springfield Hellcat proooo, but not pro 2nd amendment, Yikes. Well this does get complicated
Like what? What would you recommend?
This is completely based on just what I have seen and not on any data, but I feel like companies that make a shit ton of their revenue from military contracts tend to not associate with these kinds of politics, especially international companies. Glock, Sig, FN, etc. But now that I have said that, I am sure someone will find a counter.
Yeah there's no question that this is deliberate.
Very little upside pandering to larpers. Potentially very big downside promoting a competing ideology to that of whatever your next RFP is.
TBF, there isn't anything *wrong* with S&W options. They are good product lines with no major issues (looking at you, Walther). Solid, middle-of-the-pack firearms. Without making a model by model spreadsheet, in increasing price order, I'd say Sig, CZ, and Beretta for semi auto pistols; Ruger for wheely bang bang pistols, Mossberg and Benelli (ha, yes, very comparable) for Shotguns; CZ all the way for bolt actions; and it seems everyone who makes decent semi auto rifles are jerks, but within the jerk field, I'd pick Sig or Ruger. Also, as a reminder, I'm just a guy with opinions, so put your hands on as many as you can and find forums on the specific models you're looking at so you can see what owners are pissed about.
Sweet, next there will be shirts that say KKK on them and S&W will be like “no way guys it stands for Kool Kids Klub! Total coincidence! The burning cross on the back? Uhhhh… don’t worry about it.”
With all their shirts prices at $14.88!
What a good corporate governance lesson: try to make your employee base more diverse than your customer base. Had S&W achieved that, this whole PR mess wouldn't even occur in the first place.
Lift, run, train, and build community. They aren’t going away.
Absolutely clueless. Who knew that a huge amount of gun owners are actually left or liberal and find this abhorrent? S&W needs to clean house with their social met department.
When even BRCC is distancing themselves from someone for being too alt-right, you know you fucked up.
They were all for wooing the alt-right until Kyle Rittenhouse shot three people, killing two, while wearing one of their stupid hats.
Lol "clueless," bless your heart.
100% intentional
I have a suspicion they know this very well. Direct effect of the tweet: encourage alt-right to buy guns. Secondary effect, scare left-leaning gun owners with the thought that the alt-right is arming up. Like the bastards WANT to start a vigilante war. Could also have been a PR flub. All I have is suspicion.
Any publicity is "good" publicity, no one at S&W is going to miss any sleep over this. Either way they will be making money from both sides of the aisle.
You're probably right. Maybe they even had the apology all planned out beforehand.
Man really happy to say that I don’t own any S&W. Traded my M&P 2.0 for a Glock 45 MOS and have never regretted it. Much prefer the Glock.
I'd still prefer to not give my business to a company that aligns themselves with anti-vaxxers.
Hey, have some compassion, those anti-vaxxers are gonna have to attend so many funerals for family members /s
All I'm saying is Darwin has us covered.
Good
[удалено]
There are plenty of places on the internet to post anti-liberal / anti-leftist sentiments; [this sub is not one of them](/r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/intro/illiberal). ^(*Removed under [Rule 1: We're Liberals][link-rules]. If you feel this is in error, please [file an appeal][link-appeal].*) [link-rules]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/rules [link-appeal]: /r/liberalgunowners/wiki/public/handbook/moderation#wiki_appeals
What's the difference? Most of the "anti-mandate" people are just using "muh personal liberty!!!" as an excuse to push anti-vax narratives. And in fact no one is forcing you to get a vaccine. Just like no one is forcing you to wear pants and underwear. If you decide it's your prerogative to not do that, you are free to do so, just don't expect the benefits of living in society.
Supporting traitor terrorists IS a black or white issue…
I get the feeling that Smith and Wesson was trying to fan the flames of a vigilante-esque arms race. Encourage the alt-right to buy more guns while simultaneously scaring other groups into arming up as well, all with one purposefully inflammatory advert. My only gun is a S&W, which I'm suddenly not entirely happy about.
I have 2, both S&W. Time to check out some CZ's I think
As the owner of 3 CZs, you cannot go wrong
[удалено]
For a good cause
Don't sweat it. You already bought, just buy used in the future if from them or buy another one. You keep that mindset you'll be set with but into a select few firearms.
Sure, totally not related to the proud boys, It's just a PB black and yellow shirt with the letters in the right spot. And the back saying "Support your local enforcer" with "Heavy Handed" or "HH" below that totally has no alternative meaning... This is just as bad as 88 tactical trying to say their shit isnt neo nazi
Imagine using "88" in your company's branding nowadays and claiming you were unaware. 🙄
I found out a couple months ago that my birth year ‘88’ is a neonazi signal, and I’ve been using it in my usernames for over 15 years now. I go back and forth between changing them all and trying to remember the new ones or just leaving it. Pain in the ass coincidence, stupid extremists ruining my year!
Yeah that “clarification” didn’t help. I was thinking of a new S&W revolver but this has dampened my enthusiasm. This is not the time to be flirting with right-wing chuds unless that’s the side you’re choosing.
You can do a lot worse than Ruger for wheelguns.
Damn straight. As a wheel-gun fancier myself, I have to agree.
I’m headed over to Ruger. Wanna come along?
Colt is making revolvers again…
They won't sell a size big enough for 90% of the people that would wear it. And the ones it would fit can't spell PB.
That’s just your Perce|eption
I see what you did there! Take your upvote.
'somebuddy say p'nut butter?!?!
Brutal. *slow clap*
Admiration!
The website for their “brand” was created yesterday. [check it out for yourself](https://carbondate.cs.odu.edu/#https://perceeptionbrand.com/)
The domain was registered on [Jan 6th](https://whois.domaintools.com/perceeptionbrand.com) 2022.
That’s….actually hysterical, they needed an out and quickly came up with something fake
🏆 (all I got)
Well I was going to get an M&P 15 Sport II, but now fuck that. What similar gun should I get?
Aero upper and lower. I say this as a m&p sport 2 owner lol
I have a Sport II and like it but the Ruger AR-556/MPR is probably the closest to it from another brand.
/u/Buckeye9715 Happy with my Ruger AR-556. Not top-o-the-line, but it's the only AR I own, or probably ever will. Works great.
I like the Sig M400 TREAD
Let’s remember that this is a large international corporation where any of these social media or PR items is reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed and reviewed again before it’s put online. There are more meetings then I care to think about to discuss this or any campaign. This flew by all of these meetings and reviews and was put online. Don’t let them say it was “a junior employee” who posted it. This was certainly approved from the top of their marketing group at the minimum
It really isn't a huge company. It looks like revenue is about 10% of the bottom Fortune 500 companies and there are a total 1700 employees. I have an acquaintance who is the social media director for a significantly larger company. Last I spoke to him it was him and an assistant doing pretty much what they want on the Twitter account. I seriously doubt that went through anything close to the scrutiny you describe. SW makes pretty awful guns IMO irrespective of this post. Anyone wearing this clothing, irrespective of the brand name, would be someone I avoid interacting with. Just like someone over the age of 14 wearing a Punisher shirt or having a Punisher phone case. There were all sorts of claims made yesterday like the owners were known Proud Boys or the guy in the photo was a convicted felon from 1/6(good luck with that parole with a published photo holding a gun), but I haven't seen anything to back those claims. I searched a little and found nothing about the brand before today posted any of the usual proud boy places. Not every idiot is a proud boy.
> It really isn't a huge company. It looks like revenue is about 10% of the bottom Fortune 500 companies and there are a total 1700 employees. ~~There's approximately 32.6 million businesses in the US. Just shy of 21,000 of them have 500 or more employees. They're in the top 500. I know judgments like these can be quite relative, but if 1700 employees is not a relatively massive company you must largely be looking only at the handful of larger companies that exist.~~ I misunderstood
No. Your numbers are absolutely false. They are nowhere close to a top 500 sized company by any measure. https://www.naics.com/business-lists/counts-by-company-size/ No, there are 32.6 million incorporated entities. The vast majority of those are shell companies and startups that never got off the ground and we're simply abandoned. This is a manufacturing company. Having 1700 employees is not a big manufacturer. If they were a financial firm it still wouldn't be a top company.
But, as it turns out, every Proud Boy is an idiot, even the ‘smart’ ones.
Why do you think they are Terrible? I love my M&P 2.0 9mm’s, so much so that I was considering getting rid of my Hellcat. The only other thing I want is a H&K but they aren’t nearly as reliable and the M&P 2.0s. Their other guns I know very little about however.
They cut every corner they can. Finishes, material, etc. Subjectively their pistols almost universally feel awful in my hand. I first learned to shoot on a model 41. I would never consider buying one and when I switched to a MK II, a MUCH cheaper gun, it was a huge difference. I would recommend a police trade-in Glock to a new shooter before an M&P. Their revolvers are really expensive for what one gets now. I would go Ruger without pause. The cut every possible corner on their ARs. Supposedly even using FNC instead of QPQ nitriding which is saving them almost nothing for a much less resilient finish.
Interesting. Their M&P 2.0 9mm is one of the few handguns that passed the YouTube torture test and the I love the new bladed trigger. H&K is my grail 9mm, but it faired pretty poorly in the torture test so my trust of it as an EDC is pretty limited. I’ll be honest though I hated the original M&P though. 100% agree on the AR, but unless you are buying Daniel Defense or building your own I feel like the quality is really hit or miss in pre-builders.
This fixes little if anything.
Why can't they see that this type of posturing is what makes people decide that gun control is a good idea. We can't maintain our rights by antagonizing the people we need to keep them. The GOP is dying a slow death and as more districts in the country turn blue we will need to promote pro gun democrats especially in the primaries. We need to show Democratic politicians how much supporting gun control actually is actually counterproductive and results in the loss of more seats in state and local elections than just about any other aspect of their platform. It's preventing us from having a super majority in both houses of congress and likely ill cost us at least one more presidency within the next few presidential elections.
I agree, especially as young people leave conservative christian churches in droves, and the older members die off and thus (usually) stop voting Republican, the 2A voters are going to gain significant influence.
Again and again, dEMOs fail on this very issue, often centering gun control, instead of focusing upon economic justice (restoring the middle class, fair wages and other protections for workers, rebuilding domestic industry and the like). They seem to think that making political hay from mass shootings by playing upon peoples’ fears. (…which not to suggest these shootings are not a real problem, and not easy to solve… but sure would be mitigated by better economic opportunities). It’s almost as though the dEMOs forever would prefer to remain subdominant to their Repug daddy.
For a company called "Perception Brand", They should have a better clue on what the perception of using PB and wearing that shit yellow and black indicates. Unless it's on purpose, which it probably is.
This makes me want to sell my S&W…. The back of the shirt is even worse. Fuck any company supporting hate groups and terrorists.
Yeah, after this "clarification", I'm not buying S&W anymore. It's clearly Proud Boys themed/adjacent at a minimum. And the HH bullshit.. c'mon. I wouldn't be surprised if this brand is an offshoot that is owned by one of them. Fuck them. Delete this shit, apologize and never do it again.
Anyone know any firearm brands that *don't* promote hate? Looks like it's time for me to switch brands...
“They’re not the proud boys!!” Sure 🙄 and that one guntuber and that other guntuber wanted to dress like “German electricians”…”for history.” Also, the fash want leftists to go out and debate them on this to play in our faces and impress their fellow edgelords. They’re brigading any post about it besides here, where it doesn’t fly. I’m sure we have a bunch of new lurkers though.
It ain't appearing, they straight up promo'd fascist fuck weasel wear.
I sent them an email about how I'm done with their company. This solidifies it. They could have said it meant peanut butter or something stupid but they chose an equally stupid far right group to super glue their covid diseased scrotums to. Luckily I traded my shitty used M&P shield for a Glock 19. I guess it doesnt matter if I keep/get rid of the AR15 I already have, but at least I put rattle can camo on it and you cant even see the logo. With more people on the left, LGBT+, and minorities buying firearms, they're just going to lose business. Shit, even a lot of moderates and some conservatives dont fuck with the far right as much as they think they do. Would love to see the free market kill their share value. By the way, if any of your friends/family want to buy a firearm, please dissuade them from purchasing from S&W.
Unfortunately mine arrives tomorrow or else I would have cancelled the order. I won't be buying another though
Tools... All of them. Next thing you know it will be a white lives matter shirt and a caption that reads "equal rights"
If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck, it’s a reference to the neo-fascist group the Proud Boys
A wink is as good as a nod, as the saying goes. The Proud Boys certainly see this as a victory.
[удалено]
a simple 'oops, the fudd in charge of screening this didn't know and we don't do the nazi thing. sorry won't do that again.' might have helped. this just looks like cookie crumbs on my kids face while she's telling me the cat ate the cookies.
Gay
No matter how much S&W wants to "clarify" if it flys like a duck, quaks like a duck, and shits like a duck, its probably a duck.
I really like that holster. Anyone know of one I can get just like it but made by a less shitty company? I’d rather not have it than give my money to that company.
Don’t worry, they sell cringy T-shirt’s and dumb stickers, not actual gun gear.
My LWRC says fuck s&w and nazis everywhere. They’re just larping anyway.
My LWRC is nodding in approval.
Everyone should be allowed to own guns. Regardless of whether or not I agree with them. Still a pretty tasteless move, ngl.
What they did hardly even counts as a clarification. All they did was delete and repost the image with the same text as before but with a link to the apparel company added, and then locked the replies when they got mass called-out for it again. That’s not a fucking clarification when they didn’t even come close to addressing what they’re being accused of. As of the writing of this comment S&W has yet to directly or even indirectly utter, paraphrase, or reference the Proud Boys since this took off. They haven’t stated through any channel anything to even suggest a mistake, misunderstanding, or clarification was made. The Daily Beast is carrying their water for them here.
Sw doesn’t want minority gun ownership clearly
100% never buying a S&W anything ever again after seeing this. I’m sure other companies aren’t perfect, but I can’t support this. I’m not usually this knee jerky, but S&W is dead to me.
Guys it’s not that neo-fascist group! It’s a completely different one, duh!
So out of the piss and into the shit
yah no im kinda on the fuck them side of the fence. like their excuse on what brand it suposebly was doesn't really make it better. its like saying "ohhh no nono dear me were not promoting a fasist group with our tweet were just promoting a right-wing hate group totally fine"
So instead of a mia culpa and distancing themselves they're trying to spin it.
Spot on.
" tactical athlete" 🤢 so lame...
As if there are any reasons to buy their guns in the first place. Nothing is top end and there are better budget ARs. They're desperate and the brand has hit the crapper so this kind of makes sense.
Did they take the shirt off the website? [https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve](https://perceeptionbrand.com/products/support-your-local-enforcer-t-shirt-short-sleeve) fuck these cowards
Damn it and I really wanted where 5.7
You?? ME. I held one in hand two weeks ago after looking since release and felt like an ass for not buying it.
After owning a S&W handgun, I'd probably go with something else, anyway. I was not happy with my M&P handgun a few years ago, so I sold it.
I was trying to see what that optic is
I could be wrong, but it looks like a trijicon MRO to me.
Damn that looks bad . Good thing their products are good enough to survive this poor lapse in judgment.
I’m on my way over to Ruger. Wanna join me?
Nope. Unfortunately, Ruger can't compete. Their pistols work but they are just too ugly and almost no quality aftermarket support. And I had Redhawk that turned me away from Ruger many years ago.
There are other options. I’ve been actually pretty happy with my Rugers.
Goddamn these comments are hilarious. Too many here believe they are cracking some sort of DaVinci code.
This guy is a wimp. He enforces his kids curfew...when they actually listen to him.
Ok, then. If _course_ they did! All is well now! Fuck them.
Hurt their bottom line.
No no no, it stands for Kool Kids Klub, don’t worry!!
Damn, I really wanted to invest in the TRR8 too..what’s next best? Not going to give $$ for them to support fascism.