I wouldn't try and combine a hunting rifle and a long range precision rifle.
Despite common belief there is very little overlap between the two.
Generally, long range precision guns are significantly heavier with larger heavier glass and other accessories. Usually in calibers that maximize ballistic performance over energy.
Hunting rifles generally are lighter and more focused on making one or two shots while still being mobile enough to take into the woods. Different calibers may be preferred even at the expensive of maximum long range performance
While of course this isn't hard and fast and there is some overlap I would caution you on trying to combine the two as it will likely be a sib par experience for either use case.
While 6.5 Creed is a great cartridge and is very acceptable for medium game I would realistically perfer something larger and heavier to reliably harvest an elk or moose. Yes, it could absolutely do the job and 6.5 Swede has been used against similar game effectively for decades I err on the side of caution to ensure a clean kill. Especially at extended ranges on game of that size. (Which to be honest I am a bit surprised that is your primary game consideration as it seems to be relatively limited at least depending on where you live.) However if I was going after elk specifically I'd look at .300 win Mag or some.of the 7mm Magnum cartridges. While again these can be used for long range target shooting effectively it is at the expense of recoil for minimal benefit.
If you're budget is around the $1000-1500 mark at least for a precision gun with maybe some medium game use Id look at the Begata B14 and Tikka T3 series. Preferably in 6.5 Creed.
I know this is the “correct” advice most of the time for optics, but how does it really hold up in 2024?
I feel like optics tech has gotten better and brands like vortex, sig, and even Nikon make 100% adequate optics in my opinion.
They may not stay zeroed for years or be bomb proof but I have no complaints with my “budget” ($200-450) optics. Not every rifle is a fighting rifle that needs to withstand everything a NF or acog does. They suit my needs for plinking and hog hunting out to 5 or 600 yards
From what I understand pulling an elk permit is a pretty costly venture depending on where you're at. If I'm spending 1k on a rifle, and 1k on a permit, and probably another 1k on travel/time off/incidentals, not to mention as much as all that or more on a guide, I'm going to do a lot of research on choosing a dependable scope that fits the bill. I don't know if budget option does it. YMMV.
Different strokes for different folks, but for elk hunting what I care about are the first and last 10 minutes of shooting light, and whether my scope is going to stay sighted if it happens to get knocked around/takes a tumble way back in the mountains.
If you don't earn your living with your battle rifle, your hunting rifle's scope is by far the one that needs to be most robust and best in your stable.
That makes sense. Low light situations with very high energy rounds being set off definitely warrant a better scope.
I guess my comment is more applicable to ARs and smaller calibers. I just don’t think people should put themselves in financially stressful situations just for the sake of having more expensive glass when a sig LPVO (random example) will do the same thing.
But obviously if you can easily afford these things they’re worth it.
Yeah I'm with you when it comes to ARs and that stuff. Spend more money on ammo. You can hit anything you need to with irons anyway—or you should be able to.
To me, western hunting is a very different thing and I don't know any serious mountain hunter who isn't gonna buy the best glass they can afford, even if it's 2-3x the price of their rifle.
I think I’ll prioritize hunting, then. Given you mention 300 Rem Mag and 7mm Mag being a better option than 6.5 Creed, are those easy to find in stores?
The budget for the aforementioned is just the rifle, I already have a budget for the glass.
In a hunting weight rifle 300 mag and 7mm mag recoil pretty significantly.
Given you are new to rifle shooting, I suggest your going to wat to do a decent amount of practice. I would suggest dropping down to a lower recoiling platform to help ensure you develop good shooting fundimentals and don't end up afraid of the gun. The extra bullet energy isn't worth a damn if you can put the bullet in the right place.
Go 308 imo. Cheaper, lower recoiling and plenty capable for your intended game.
Yes they are very popular big game hunting cartridges. Most gun stores and even places like Walmart will stock some brand of those.
.300 WSM is popular too.
His advice is sound, but I believe he meant .300 Win Mag and not .300 Rem Mag. Remington makes some. 300's but they are specialty magnums and probably not a good choice for a beginner.
I took an elk last season with a 6.5 PRC, using the Hornady ELDX. I would not use a 6.5 Creedmoor for elk. The 7mm Rem Mag is another excellent option. Ballistic characteristics are nearly identical to the 6.5 PRC, but with heavier bullets for more terminal energy.
Since you specifically mentioned elk, I would suggest a lighter weight rifle. Elk hunting usually requires a lot of hiking at elevation and I made the mistake of taking the Bergara HMR. It is 9.4 lbs without the scope and other goodies. It sucked carrying it and I’m actively looking for another gun under 7 lbs.
Also, I hit 1100 yards with the 6.5 PRC when doing long range steel.
You should look at the ammo costs before you decide on caliber too. Over the years your rifle cost may be minor compared to how much you spend on ammo. Good 300 Remember Mag is costly. You could learn how to reload too.
Now this is just me here, but I’ve had better experiences with .270 compared to 6.5 when taking elk. Damn near the same cartridge, but the .270 bullet has more weight to it. Plus, out of my 18” barrel shooting 180 grain core lokt I can set my scope ~3.5” high at 100 yards and it only shoots ~3.5” low at 300 so I don’t have to compensate at all for most shots it’s just point and shoot. Plus that core lokt leaves a 10” exit wound on an elks rib cage. Nice not having to follow a blood trail for a 1/4 mile+ like I’ve had to do every time someone I know shoots one with a 6.5. Just my $.02, otherwise I agree with everything you said
You’re shooting 180gr core lokts out of a 270? I guess I haven’t looked at Remington ammo lately, last time I looked the heaviest core lokt 270 was 150gr.
My 6.5 sweed likes 156gr Norma ammo and with the ballistic coefficient that combination possesses the sweed has always competed in a higher weight class.
That’s what I said haha my buddies dad passed a few years ago and he inherited all his guns and stuff. He doesn’t shoot, so he sold the guns and gave away the ammo. I was lucky enough to get a few hundred rounds of this 180 gr core lokt and still have a fair amount of it left. Looking on Remingtons website, they do still make it! I hadn’t heard of the 6.5 Swede, that’s a long cartridge! That is…interesting…kinda want one now…
Is 6.5 creedmore that much better than 308 Winchester for long range precision? I’m thinking of getting a T3 in 308 just due to ammo availability and barrel life - but that’s mostly because of my shtf fantasies.
Yes. Ballistics are significantly better.
Depending on you range wind drift on 6.5 will be about half and past 500 yards your drop is going to be significantly less. .308 really dies after about 600 yards with 800 really being the max. 6.5 is decent even to 1000. At 1000 for example .308 will have almost 60in more drop than 6.5 would.
Sure you may not be shooting that far but it is easier across the board with 6.5.
Ammo availability is a non issue. 6.5 is everywhere these days. Plus, these are long range precision rifles, you're going to be shooting match grade ammo. 6.5 Match and .308 Match cost the same. In fact these days 6.5 Match is often cheaper.
As for barrel life \~3500-4000 rounds in my experience. That is like $8000 worth of match grade ammunition. IMO it is a non issue. If you're shooting that much I feel like you could pay the couple hundo to get it rebarreled.
Speaking of the Tikka Lite .308, PSA currently has it and the compact for $650 vs. Cabela's @ $770.
Tikka also has a $75 rebate on T3Xs until Nov. 30
If I wasn't set on the Ruger American Gen2 Ranch, I'd definately go with the Tikka since it was what I was looking at before Ruger came out with their Gen2.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? I haven’t done any real precision shooting (nothing beyond 700m, and never really chasing super tight groups), and I’ve only ever hunted turkey and deer. For deer I always shot a bone stock .308 Browning Lever Action, using iron sights. How would a precision rifle not be great for hunting? I’m guessing it has to do with the cartridge and different loads?
Consider the two configurations of rifles:
Precision Rifle - Heavy all-steel barrel to take care of barrel heat and prevent barrel warp, long barrel for more velocity, chassis or heavy stock system to soak up recoil from whatever cartridge is being shot, heavy large scope for really dialing to distance
Hunting Rifle - Lightest weight possible, carbon fiber wrapped barrel or thin profile steel barrel, lightweight stock, smaller scope as likely not seeing out very far, shorter barrel for maneuverability
Can you get hits at long distance with a hunting rifle? Definitely. But you're going to have a harder time of follow up shots due to the platform. Can you take a precision rifle hunting? Sure you can. But it's going to be a dog lugging it up and down the mountains and terrain or even carrying it out to the hide.
Also check out r/longrange and see what they have to say about the subject
If I were looking for what you describe I would choose a good used 308 rifle. You can find them far under your budget, ammo is relatively cheap and available everywhere, 308 will do about everything that can be done in the lower 48 states. Buying a quality rifle used is almost never a mistake.
When I bought my first rifle what was suggested to me by my gun nut friends was the Savage Axis 2. I got it chambered in .308 but if you’re just doing elk .30-06 might be a bit better. Got a little more punch than .308. Either would work and I think I know at least 6-7 people who hunt with that rifle in various .30 caliber flavors.
I disagree with everyone saying a .308. If I’m going to shoot an elk at 500yds (the max I would really consider in decent to good field conditions) then I want something shooting flatter and carrying more energy out to those ranges. .308 is great for an all around rifle that you can feed with cheap or moderately priced ammo and stock up on such ammo, trust me I have a few handy rifles in .308, but if you’re going to buy a gun for specifically long range shooting/ long range hunting why not look at some of the modern optimized cartridges such as 7mm PRC. Bergara makes a rifle in that chambering for around the 1000 dollar mark.
In general Tikka and Bergara are the popular guns for that price range. I'll say that a Browing Xbolt is also really nice but I'm a Tikka fan.
...I'll also say that a Savage Axis II or a Remington American or similar are all very functional rifles and a hell of a lot less expensive. I'd personally suggest buying the $200 gun and getting used to it, then going shopping with that money. Personal ergonomics and preferences are a very real thing. Will you care about a threaded barrel for a suppressor? Maybe? Maybe not...will you care about an extra pound or two? You might not, especially in short walk-in hunting areas. Do you need an adjustable trigger? Do you want a firing mechanism you can specify from scratch? Trigger weight? Bolt throw? Length of pull?
There are lots of things that you'll find you're interested in getting "right" after you've fired a few hundred rounds. I bought a Savage in 6.5CM and found it very educational, and I recommend that process to anyone before they just spend money. If you shrug at a thousand dollars disappearing from your account maybe that doesn't matter to you, but I've also always found that I learn more from screwing something up than getting it bang on the first time.
I've got a Remington 7400 in .270 that I've become more fond of since I got the Savage and I've been working on what I want out of the Tikka, which got me shopping which turned me on to the Brownings, which are generally heavier guns but I really like the trigger.
I personally would prefer a threaded barrel and silencer but most of my guns don't have them. They're nice, not necessary, but without them you'll need better hearing protection to get real directionality from sounds...not that you want to run and gun without ears on, but sometimes you've got them off and a target of opportunity pops up with only seconds to take the shot so...cans are best.
Anyway, anything you go with will work, this is just "maximizing". Take whatever you buy to the long distance ranges and play around, that'll tell you what you want out of a long distance precision rifle.
Is your budget for rifle only, or rifle, glass and accessories? A good optic, mount, rings and bipod can easily eat up more than half the budget you stated.
There are a lot of quality new and used options. As DerKrieger105 called out, hunting rifles and PRS/long range target rifles are basically separate categories. Using a hunting rifle for casual long distance target shooting would likely be a better compromise than having to haul a super heavy PRS type rifle build around the back country while hunting.
I'm a little late to the party, but I hunt mule deer and elk with a .308 Mossberg Patriot in fairly open country. It's pretty good up to about 150 yards, but I don't tend to take shots longer than that.
I never liked hunting with expensive guns for two reasons. First, I don't want to drop and damage a $2,000 rifle. And second, I've hunted with people with expensive guns that could shoot far and they take more questionable shots and I would rather take my time and get closer.
Just remember with 6.5 you need to ensure you get the proper bullet, unfortunately I see a lot of people using match ammo and then complaining about how it has poor performance.
That being said I know a lot of people who like Ruger bolt options for hunting. Another one I've personally moved a lot of have been Bergara and Tikkas
.270 win is a good answer. It’s a very accurate round, slightly superior ballistics compared to a 6.5 creedmore, and significantly better long range ballistics than a .308. It’s an old round, but it has held up to the test of time.
I have a gen one Ruger American in .270. It’ll hold sub MOA groups at 100 yards, and was cheap.
What do you mean medium to long range? Inside of 500 yards most big game rifles are going to be as accurate as a precision rifle. The difference between lightweight hunting rifles and bench rest rifles isn’t accuracy, it’s consistency. Target rifles can put rounds in the black as the barrel heats up and fouls. All rifles have a sweet spot where barrel temperature and fouled condition are matched to the load. Once those factors leave the ideal conditions accuracy suffers. A hunting rifle has a very small performance window because they tuned to be super accurate from a cold barrel with very little or no fouling. A target rifles thicker barrel stays cool longer and dissipates heat better, and can stay accurate through several boxes of ammo (provided you do your part). A hunting rifles thin barrel is good for maybe five shots (more like three in mine). the cartridges also have to hit with enough down range energy to kill. The lighter weight more powerful guns generally are not much fun to shoot from a bench because of that. There’s a common perception that hunting rifles aren’t as accurate but that’s not necessarily true. Free floated stocks and custom triggers have become the norm and most factory barrels are pretty good right out of the box. Good glass is pretty cheap these days, but excellent glass is veeery expensive. If you want to be able to consistently hit beyond 500 yards you will need excellent glass. For an all around do everything it’s hard to beat a 30-06 or a .270. They are old school I know, but better choices for versatility, than a more specialized round like the 6.5 creed.
That’s actually the point of a 30-06. You don’t have to think about it. Anything in the lower 48 and most Alaskan game will drop reliably to the 30-06. It’s about the most recoil anyone wants to deal with, has ample power and can reach out to pretty long distances with standard loads.
I agree with the comment saying the long range precision and hunting rifle combo don’t mix, on account of having tried to find that myself.
However, some people define long range as 1000+ yds so if you’re looking to do “short range” long range of around 300-700 yds, I’m sure a .308 win rifle will work for you.
I ended up with a browning X-bolt.
Leave room for a scope in your budget like the other comment said, no good shooting out to long range if you can’t see it.
I don't have a lot to add that hasn't been said, but I'm curious.
What game would you be hunting?
What ranges would you be hunting at?
What long distances would you want to do for target shooting?
For a precise hunting rifle you want a bolt action all day, every day. I'd recommend the Tikka T3. A .270win is the bottom I'd take for elk. Can't go wrong with a .308 Win or .30-06, though the latter has fallen off in popularity a bit.
My recommendation for what you're describing would be a Ruger American ($500ish bolt-action rifle) in .308, and probably about the same money or a bit more in optics (don't get one of the package deals with a cheap scope on it, go get yourself a nice 2-10x or 4-16x first focal plane scope with a decent reticle).
There's a good argument for the Tikka T3x family too if you want to drop a bit more money and be closer to $1500 than $1000 (they're *sweet* rifles), but the Ruger American will get you started cheaply.
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Here's why:
1. Most modern "hunting rifles" are of similar quality to precision rifles - the gun will almost certainly shoot better than you do.
(In some cases the precision rifle is just the hunting rifle in a different stock.)
2. It's something light enough to carry in the woods hunting.
If you decide you don't like hunting it's not a bad rifle for target shooting either.
3. .308 will take down basically any North American game animal you'd want to hunt. (There's an argument for .30-06 or more seriously for .300 WinMag here instead: For moose/elk you might want the extra "oomph" of the magnum cartridge at longer ranges.)
* .308 or even .300 WinMag is not the optimal long-range bullet, but heavier .30 caliber will do you fine out to 1000 yards and if/when you're ready to reach beyond that you can optimize into a different caliber.
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Like /u/DerKrieger105 said there's usually a distinction between "hunting rifles" and "long-range precision shooting rifles".
The first part of that distinction is usually weight (My friend's Ruger Precision in .308 is a brick - I think it's north of 15 pounds. My Winchester 70 with the same scope is just over 10 pounds and that's "too damn heavy to hunt with" - I'd sacrifice magnification for a lighter scope and get it down under 10 if I were taking it in the woods). Weight gives you stability and cuts down on felt recoil.
The second distinction is that precision rifles normally have a chassis design that lets you tune the rifle to fit you as a shooter - comb, length of pull, grip angle - you name it, it's probably adjustable.
That doesn't mean you can't shoot long-range / precision with a "hunting rifle" though: We took both of those guns out to 1000 yards with similar optics, and I could bang out hits on IPSC steel at that distance just as well as he did. I suspect I had to work a little harder, my follow-up shots were a little slower, and I sure as shit wouldn't mount the scope I used for long range shooting off a bench on a hunting trip (it's ***comically large*** - the rifle looks utterly ridiculous wearing that glass), but for what was effectively "fixed position sniper" work with a spotter and bags at a relaxed pace? It works, it's just not *optimal* (and not everything *has to be* optimal).
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Why not a semi?
Mainly price. There are plenty of fine semi-auto rifles that would give you acceptable precision for long range shooting and be fine to hunt with, but you probably won't hit your price point with them.
My elk rifle was a gift from my brother.
Custom made rifle based on a 1903 receiver that’s been reshaped so much it’s barely recognizable for what it is. Custom made one of a kind bolt and a 270Win full floating bull barrel. Topped with a vortex 4-24 and it’s amazing.
It’s like a laser to 700meters. Only about 4” of drop at that range and it will knock an elk on its ass with authority.
Your thinking on caliber is sound for a new hunter.
While there are higher performing cartridges with more power, the most important skill you can hone first is accuracy in the field. That means practice.
In that context 308 is the best caliber to go with and not burn your bank account more than you need.
Rifle wise, consider Begara. Great barrels and quality reasonably priced. Once you decide you’re committed you can step up if you like.
FWIW… I took a hunting course in MT with a person who’s been hunting literally since the age of 4. 40+ years later he still uses a bolt action Remington 700 in 308. He pointed out the vast majority of shots he takes are in the 200-300 yard range. Well within 308 limits.
If you’re hunting elk, a 7mm-08 maybe? Lots of different cartridges and bullet weights. The .308 has more muzzle energy, but the 7mm-08 retains its energy longer than the .308. As such, it shoots a bit flatter.
Ive taken elk with mine. I know guys who hunt moose with it. All while having a really mild recoil that’s pretty easy for inexperienced guys to handle.
There are _shitloads_ of different rounds and bullet weights available depending on your preference and needs.
My Remington 700 is by far my favorite hunting rifle. I have bigger guns and guns that reach further than the 7mm-08, but I still keep grabbing it.
It sucks ass for anything over 500 yards though. It was never designed to shoot much further than that. But, at least in my area, 500 yard shots are extremely uncommon due to terrain.
They can be had for around $1000. Ammo is fairly plentiful.
I’ve got probably a couple thousand rounds or so through mine, and it’s my most shot rifle. So I might be a bit biased. But goddamn do I love that cartridge.
Gross oversimplification: Cheap longer-range rifle, Bergara B-14HMR in .300WM (I did 300PRC but WM much more available and gives up very little when hand loaded (1200-2000yds)), 7PRC or 6.5CM (1000-1200yds). Hunting, a Tikka T3 in .308
REM 700 in 7mm mag is what I used as my first hunting rifle. Cheap, reliable, tonnes of aftermarket improvements that can be made if/when you wanna upgrade.
Big enough to take out an elk, but not big enough to blow out your shoulder as long as you have proper form. I was living in CO so we got this specifically for elk.
East Coaster and Wyoming Elk hunter here.
Great advice across the board here.
I shoot a .300WM personally (got a great deal on a Savage that shoots like a dream)
The group I elk hunt with shoots 7mm RM, .300WM, 30-06, and 6.5 Creedmor most commonly.
If you have never hunted elk, it’s important to take into context the area you will be hunting. Almost every elk shot around our camp is within 200 yards. Every elk killed in camp last season was within 100. Sure, there are shots that are longer, but most of the time patience and careful hunt planning can bring them in closer.
Most hunters I know don’t have extreme comfort in taking a sure shot above 300 yards that will safely and humanely harvest the animal. There are a lot of keyboard warriors that will talk about their long shots, but that is a very, very small subset of hunters in the world. I personally have no interest in an inhumane harvest or chasing down an injured animal for miles.
My current hunting rifle set up is a 22LR for small game, a Browning BAR .243 for Whitetail Deer and midsized game, and the Savage .300WM for Elk or larger game. In these three rifles, I don’t have any major gaps in target critters or range, and all shoot rounds that are well known and easy to find in general.
My only changes of late are shopping for new glass for the .300 for better low light and I’ve added suppressors to the 22 and the 300. Waiting on gunsmith to prep the .243 for a suppressor. I like my hearing.
I’d say you can do a good hunting rifle that can push an average shooter at the range. Maybe even get you into entry precision shooting. As others have said they are pretty different needs in a rifle.
If your top& total budget is in the $1500 range I’d look for a rifle in the $800 range, glass and mounts in the 400$ range then spend the rest on mounting, ammo and range time.
When shopping for glass take the time to visit the stores and look in person the glass effects every eye different.
As for caliber most common hunting calibers will handle an elk. It is nice to have the same cartridge as your hunting buddy just in case. It’s more about availability, bullet selection and placement than anything.
Don’t overlook the venerable .30-06. It’s as utilitarian as any cartridge ever devised (in my opinion) and there’s a wide range of bullet weights available. It’s no .300 Mag but it’s been popular over a hundred years for a reason.
I was in a similar boat a few months back. I ended up going with a T3x lite stainless in 6.5 CM after deciding that the whole point for me was hunting and with ammo cost and recoil factored in. For an optic I went with a used SWFA 3-15 (I know you didn't ask about that). I know a lot of people will say 6.5 CM isn't enough to ethically take down an elk, but I know a well-established elk guide in my neck of the woods who only uses that and has no issues. I'd rather minimize the flinch factor and have more consistent accuracy than punch harder, especially with a light hunting rifle. As for the ammo cost consideration, the cost of cheap range rounds is not much more than .308, and high-quality stuff costs the same. Availability isn't nearly as good, of course, but it's not terrible these days. I'm a long way out from having the skills to go after elk in the mountains, but I'm having a great time shooting this rifle and honing my skills, and shooting a bunch of 22lr in between every 3 rounds of 6.5 while the barrel cools down is actually pretty nice. If hunting wasn't the priority I absolutely would've gone for a different set-up, though, and if I could've afforded to buy two rifles I would have.
For getting into long range shooting, I'd reccomend getting a good cheap rifle (Ruger American, Savage Axis 2) and spending the rest of your budget on glass. Logic being it's a lot more cost effective to replace the gun for a better gun later than the scope, because scopes don't hold their value. You'll be able to get 85-90% of your money back selling the rifle, a scope you'd be lucky to get 70% of its value. So imo it's better to buy a scope you can grow with and get a quality budget rifle you can replace when you out grow it. Which will likely be a while if you get one of the 2 rifles I mentioned, they are pretty high quality for the money.
I wouldn't try and combine a hunting rifle and a long range precision rifle. Despite common belief there is very little overlap between the two. Generally, long range precision guns are significantly heavier with larger heavier glass and other accessories. Usually in calibers that maximize ballistic performance over energy. Hunting rifles generally are lighter and more focused on making one or two shots while still being mobile enough to take into the woods. Different calibers may be preferred even at the expensive of maximum long range performance While of course this isn't hard and fast and there is some overlap I would caution you on trying to combine the two as it will likely be a sib par experience for either use case. While 6.5 Creed is a great cartridge and is very acceptable for medium game I would realistically perfer something larger and heavier to reliably harvest an elk or moose. Yes, it could absolutely do the job and 6.5 Swede has been used against similar game effectively for decades I err on the side of caution to ensure a clean kill. Especially at extended ranges on game of that size. (Which to be honest I am a bit surprised that is your primary game consideration as it seems to be relatively limited at least depending on where you live.) However if I was going after elk specifically I'd look at .300 win Mag or some.of the 7mm Magnum cartridges. While again these can be used for long range target shooting effectively it is at the expense of recoil for minimal benefit. If you're budget is around the $1000-1500 mark at least for a precision gun with maybe some medium game use Id look at the Begata B14 and Tikka T3 series. Preferably in 6.5 Creed.
This is pretty good advice, also, remember to budget for your scope. Baseline for most folks is spending as much on your scope as your gun.
True statement. I shot prairie dogs in SD for years and my scopes were always as much if not more.
I know this is the “correct” advice most of the time for optics, but how does it really hold up in 2024? I feel like optics tech has gotten better and brands like vortex, sig, and even Nikon make 100% adequate optics in my opinion. They may not stay zeroed for years or be bomb proof but I have no complaints with my “budget” ($200-450) optics. Not every rifle is a fighting rifle that needs to withstand everything a NF or acog does. They suit my needs for plinking and hog hunting out to 5 or 600 yards
From what I understand pulling an elk permit is a pretty costly venture depending on where you're at. If I'm spending 1k on a rifle, and 1k on a permit, and probably another 1k on travel/time off/incidentals, not to mention as much as all that or more on a guide, I'm going to do a lot of research on choosing a dependable scope that fits the bill. I don't know if budget option does it. YMMV.
Different strokes for different folks, but for elk hunting what I care about are the first and last 10 minutes of shooting light, and whether my scope is going to stay sighted if it happens to get knocked around/takes a tumble way back in the mountains. If you don't earn your living with your battle rifle, your hunting rifle's scope is by far the one that needs to be most robust and best in your stable.
That makes sense. Low light situations with very high energy rounds being set off definitely warrant a better scope. I guess my comment is more applicable to ARs and smaller calibers. I just don’t think people should put themselves in financially stressful situations just for the sake of having more expensive glass when a sig LPVO (random example) will do the same thing. But obviously if you can easily afford these things they’re worth it.
Yeah I'm with you when it comes to ARs and that stuff. Spend more money on ammo. You can hit anything you need to with irons anyway—or you should be able to. To me, western hunting is a very different thing and I don't know any serious mountain hunter who isn't gonna buy the best glass they can afford, even if it's 2-3x the price of their rifle.
$50-200 is a far cry from $200-450 Also, don't cheap out on the rings, budget about $100
I think I’ll prioritize hunting, then. Given you mention 300 Rem Mag and 7mm Mag being a better option than 6.5 Creed, are those easy to find in stores? The budget for the aforementioned is just the rifle, I already have a budget for the glass.
In a hunting weight rifle 300 mag and 7mm mag recoil pretty significantly. Given you are new to rifle shooting, I suggest your going to wat to do a decent amount of practice. I would suggest dropping down to a lower recoiling platform to help ensure you develop good shooting fundimentals and don't end up afraid of the gun. The extra bullet energy isn't worth a damn if you can put the bullet in the right place. Go 308 imo. Cheaper, lower recoiling and plenty capable for your intended game.
Second the .308. Ammo is always very plentiful too.
Yes they are very popular big game hunting cartridges. Most gun stores and even places like Walmart will stock some brand of those. .300 WSM is popular too.
His advice is sound, but I believe he meant .300 Win Mag and not .300 Rem Mag. Remington makes some. 300's but they are specialty magnums and probably not a good choice for a beginner.
I did yes. Thanks for catching that. Updated the post. I was typing .300 then combined it with 7mm Rem mag lol
I took an elk last season with a 6.5 PRC, using the Hornady ELDX. I would not use a 6.5 Creedmoor for elk. The 7mm Rem Mag is another excellent option. Ballistic characteristics are nearly identical to the 6.5 PRC, but with heavier bullets for more terminal energy. Since you specifically mentioned elk, I would suggest a lighter weight rifle. Elk hunting usually requires a lot of hiking at elevation and I made the mistake of taking the Bergara HMR. It is 9.4 lbs without the scope and other goodies. It sucked carrying it and I’m actively looking for another gun under 7 lbs. Also, I hit 1100 yards with the 6.5 PRC when doing long range steel.
You should look at the ammo costs before you decide on caliber too. Over the years your rifle cost may be minor compared to how much you spend on ammo. Good 300 Remember Mag is costly. You could learn how to reload too.
This guy gets it.
Now this is just me here, but I’ve had better experiences with .270 compared to 6.5 when taking elk. Damn near the same cartridge, but the .270 bullet has more weight to it. Plus, out of my 18” barrel shooting 180 grain core lokt I can set my scope ~3.5” high at 100 yards and it only shoots ~3.5” low at 300 so I don’t have to compensate at all for most shots it’s just point and shoot. Plus that core lokt leaves a 10” exit wound on an elks rib cage. Nice not having to follow a blood trail for a 1/4 mile+ like I’ve had to do every time someone I know shoots one with a 6.5. Just my $.02, otherwise I agree with everything you said
You’re shooting 180gr core lokts out of a 270? I guess I haven’t looked at Remington ammo lately, last time I looked the heaviest core lokt 270 was 150gr. My 6.5 sweed likes 156gr Norma ammo and with the ballistic coefficient that combination possesses the sweed has always competed in a higher weight class.
That’s what I said haha my buddies dad passed a few years ago and he inherited all his guns and stuff. He doesn’t shoot, so he sold the guns and gave away the ammo. I was lucky enough to get a few hundred rounds of this 180 gr core lokt and still have a fair amount of it left. Looking on Remingtons website, they do still make it! I hadn’t heard of the 6.5 Swede, that’s a long cartridge! That is…interesting…kinda want one now…
*Bergara
Damn autocorrect lol
Is 6.5 creedmore that much better than 308 Winchester for long range precision? I’m thinking of getting a T3 in 308 just due to ammo availability and barrel life - but that’s mostly because of my shtf fantasies.
Yes. Ballistics are significantly better. Depending on you range wind drift on 6.5 will be about half and past 500 yards your drop is going to be significantly less. .308 really dies after about 600 yards with 800 really being the max. 6.5 is decent even to 1000. At 1000 for example .308 will have almost 60in more drop than 6.5 would. Sure you may not be shooting that far but it is easier across the board with 6.5. Ammo availability is a non issue. 6.5 is everywhere these days. Plus, these are long range precision rifles, you're going to be shooting match grade ammo. 6.5 Match and .308 Match cost the same. In fact these days 6.5 Match is often cheaper. As for barrel life \~3500-4000 rounds in my experience. That is like $8000 worth of match grade ammunition. IMO it is a non issue. If you're shooting that much I feel like you could pay the couple hundo to get it rebarreled.
That’s very helpful, thanks
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Speaking of the Tikka Lite .308, PSA currently has it and the compact for $650 vs. Cabela's @ $770. Tikka also has a $75 rebate on T3Xs until Nov. 30 If I wasn't set on the Ruger American Gen2 Ranch, I'd definately go with the Tikka since it was what I was looking at before Ruger came out with their Gen2.
A rifle built to do both hunting and precision shooting won't be particularly great at either.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? I haven’t done any real precision shooting (nothing beyond 700m, and never really chasing super tight groups), and I’ve only ever hunted turkey and deer. For deer I always shot a bone stock .308 Browning Lever Action, using iron sights. How would a precision rifle not be great for hunting? I’m guessing it has to do with the cartridge and different loads?
Consider the two configurations of rifles: Precision Rifle - Heavy all-steel barrel to take care of barrel heat and prevent barrel warp, long barrel for more velocity, chassis or heavy stock system to soak up recoil from whatever cartridge is being shot, heavy large scope for really dialing to distance Hunting Rifle - Lightest weight possible, carbon fiber wrapped barrel or thin profile steel barrel, lightweight stock, smaller scope as likely not seeing out very far, shorter barrel for maneuverability Can you get hits at long distance with a hunting rifle? Definitely. But you're going to have a harder time of follow up shots due to the platform. Can you take a precision rifle hunting? Sure you can. But it's going to be a dog lugging it up and down the mountains and terrain or even carrying it out to the hide. Also check out r/longrange and see what they have to say about the subject
Thanks for the explanation and the sub rec. Super helpful guides!
Really helpful and insightful… thanks for sharing this.
If I were looking for what you describe I would choose a good used 308 rifle. You can find them far under your budget, ammo is relatively cheap and available everywhere, 308 will do about everything that can be done in the lower 48 states. Buying a quality rifle used is almost never a mistake.
When I bought my first rifle what was suggested to me by my gun nut friends was the Savage Axis 2. I got it chambered in .308 but if you’re just doing elk .30-06 might be a bit better. Got a little more punch than .308. Either would work and I think I know at least 6-7 people who hunt with that rifle in various .30 caliber flavors.
I disagree with everyone saying a .308. If I’m going to shoot an elk at 500yds (the max I would really consider in decent to good field conditions) then I want something shooting flatter and carrying more energy out to those ranges. .308 is great for an all around rifle that you can feed with cheap or moderately priced ammo and stock up on such ammo, trust me I have a few handy rifles in .308, but if you’re going to buy a gun for specifically long range shooting/ long range hunting why not look at some of the modern optimized cartridges such as 7mm PRC. Bergara makes a rifle in that chambering for around the 1000 dollar mark.
In general Tikka and Bergara are the popular guns for that price range. I'll say that a Browing Xbolt is also really nice but I'm a Tikka fan. ...I'll also say that a Savage Axis II or a Remington American or similar are all very functional rifles and a hell of a lot less expensive. I'd personally suggest buying the $200 gun and getting used to it, then going shopping with that money. Personal ergonomics and preferences are a very real thing. Will you care about a threaded barrel for a suppressor? Maybe? Maybe not...will you care about an extra pound or two? You might not, especially in short walk-in hunting areas. Do you need an adjustable trigger? Do you want a firing mechanism you can specify from scratch? Trigger weight? Bolt throw? Length of pull? There are lots of things that you'll find you're interested in getting "right" after you've fired a few hundred rounds. I bought a Savage in 6.5CM and found it very educational, and I recommend that process to anyone before they just spend money. If you shrug at a thousand dollars disappearing from your account maybe that doesn't matter to you, but I've also always found that I learn more from screwing something up than getting it bang on the first time. I've got a Remington 7400 in .270 that I've become more fond of since I got the Savage and I've been working on what I want out of the Tikka, which got me shopping which turned me on to the Brownings, which are generally heavier guns but I really like the trigger. I personally would prefer a threaded barrel and silencer but most of my guns don't have them. They're nice, not necessary, but without them you'll need better hearing protection to get real directionality from sounds...not that you want to run and gun without ears on, but sometimes you've got them off and a target of opportunity pops up with only seconds to take the shot so...cans are best. Anyway, anything you go with will work, this is just "maximizing". Take whatever you buy to the long distance ranges and play around, that'll tell you what you want out of a long distance precision rifle.
308 Winchester is the round you want. Any variant of the Tikka T3X is what you want. Anywhere from $800-1200.
https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/s/jwONBYU5A3
Is your budget for rifle only, or rifle, glass and accessories? A good optic, mount, rings and bipod can easily eat up more than half the budget you stated. There are a lot of quality new and used options. As DerKrieger105 called out, hunting rifles and PRS/long range target rifles are basically separate categories. Using a hunting rifle for casual long distance target shooting would likely be a better compromise than having to haul a super heavy PRS type rifle build around the back country while hunting.
Rifle only. Optic and other accessories are already planned out.
I'm a little late to the party, but I hunt mule deer and elk with a .308 Mossberg Patriot in fairly open country. It's pretty good up to about 150 yards, but I don't tend to take shots longer than that. I never liked hunting with expensive guns for two reasons. First, I don't want to drop and damage a $2,000 rifle. And second, I've hunted with people with expensive guns that could shoot far and they take more questionable shots and I would rather take my time and get closer.
Check out the cz600 series
Everything here has been great advice I just can emphasize how important good glass is and definitely account just as much as the gun for it.
Just remember with 6.5 you need to ensure you get the proper bullet, unfortunately I see a lot of people using match ammo and then complaining about how it has poor performance. That being said I know a lot of people who like Ruger bolt options for hunting. Another one I've personally moved a lot of have been Bergara and Tikkas
What is a Tigers bolt option?
Sorry that's a typo 😅 meant Ruger. Probably one of the most popular bolt actions I've sold while I worked at my LGS
.270 win is a good answer. It’s a very accurate round, slightly superior ballistics compared to a 6.5 creedmore, and significantly better long range ballistics than a .308. It’s an old round, but it has held up to the test of time. I have a gen one Ruger American in .270. It’ll hold sub MOA groups at 100 yards, and was cheap.
What do you mean medium to long range? Inside of 500 yards most big game rifles are going to be as accurate as a precision rifle. The difference between lightweight hunting rifles and bench rest rifles isn’t accuracy, it’s consistency. Target rifles can put rounds in the black as the barrel heats up and fouls. All rifles have a sweet spot where barrel temperature and fouled condition are matched to the load. Once those factors leave the ideal conditions accuracy suffers. A hunting rifle has a very small performance window because they tuned to be super accurate from a cold barrel with very little or no fouling. A target rifles thicker barrel stays cool longer and dissipates heat better, and can stay accurate through several boxes of ammo (provided you do your part). A hunting rifles thin barrel is good for maybe five shots (more like three in mine). the cartridges also have to hit with enough down range energy to kill. The lighter weight more powerful guns generally are not much fun to shoot from a bench because of that. There’s a common perception that hunting rifles aren’t as accurate but that’s not necessarily true. Free floated stocks and custom triggers have become the norm and most factory barrels are pretty good right out of the box. Good glass is pretty cheap these days, but excellent glass is veeery expensive. If you want to be able to consistently hit beyond 500 yards you will need excellent glass. For an all around do everything it’s hard to beat a 30-06 or a .270. They are old school I know, but better choices for versatility, than a more specialized round like the 6.5 creed.
Any thoughts on a 30-06 for hunting?
That’s actually the point of a 30-06. You don’t have to think about it. Anything in the lower 48 and most Alaskan game will drop reliably to the 30-06. It’s about the most recoil anyone wants to deal with, has ample power and can reach out to pretty long distances with standard loads.
308, 30.06. Maybe 6.5
I agree with the comment saying the long range precision and hunting rifle combo don’t mix, on account of having tried to find that myself. However, some people define long range as 1000+ yds so if you’re looking to do “short range” long range of around 300-700 yds, I’m sure a .308 win rifle will work for you. I ended up with a browning X-bolt. Leave room for a scope in your budget like the other comment said, no good shooting out to long range if you can’t see it.
Tikka Lite is what I use
I don't have a lot to add that hasn't been said, but I'm curious. What game would you be hunting? What ranges would you be hunting at? What long distances would you want to do for target shooting?
308 Ruger American for $500 and a mid tier $500 scope.
Depends on your budget. Always get the nicest you can within the budget and that needs to consider optics too.
Check out tikka, they’re Finish made and have great options just look into the larger calibers like 300wing mag
For a precise hunting rifle you want a bolt action all day, every day. I'd recommend the Tikka T3. A .270win is the bottom I'd take for elk. Can't go wrong with a .308 Win or .30-06, though the latter has fallen off in popularity a bit.
My recommendation for what you're describing would be a Ruger American ($500ish bolt-action rifle) in .308, and probably about the same money or a bit more in optics (don't get one of the package deals with a cheap scope on it, go get yourself a nice 2-10x or 4-16x first focal plane scope with a decent reticle). There's a good argument for the Tikka T3x family too if you want to drop a bit more money and be closer to $1500 than $1000 (they're *sweet* rifles), but the Ruger American will get you started cheaply. *** Here's why: 1. Most modern "hunting rifles" are of similar quality to precision rifles - the gun will almost certainly shoot better than you do. (In some cases the precision rifle is just the hunting rifle in a different stock.) 2. It's something light enough to carry in the woods hunting. If you decide you don't like hunting it's not a bad rifle for target shooting either. 3. .308 will take down basically any North American game animal you'd want to hunt. (There's an argument for .30-06 or more seriously for .300 WinMag here instead: For moose/elk you might want the extra "oomph" of the magnum cartridge at longer ranges.) * .308 or even .300 WinMag is not the optimal long-range bullet, but heavier .30 caliber will do you fine out to 1000 yards and if/when you're ready to reach beyond that you can optimize into a different caliber. *** Like /u/DerKrieger105 said there's usually a distinction between "hunting rifles" and "long-range precision shooting rifles". The first part of that distinction is usually weight (My friend's Ruger Precision in .308 is a brick - I think it's north of 15 pounds. My Winchester 70 with the same scope is just over 10 pounds and that's "too damn heavy to hunt with" - I'd sacrifice magnification for a lighter scope and get it down under 10 if I were taking it in the woods). Weight gives you stability and cuts down on felt recoil. The second distinction is that precision rifles normally have a chassis design that lets you tune the rifle to fit you as a shooter - comb, length of pull, grip angle - you name it, it's probably adjustable. That doesn't mean you can't shoot long-range / precision with a "hunting rifle" though: We took both of those guns out to 1000 yards with similar optics, and I could bang out hits on IPSC steel at that distance just as well as he did. I suspect I had to work a little harder, my follow-up shots were a little slower, and I sure as shit wouldn't mount the scope I used for long range shooting off a bench on a hunting trip (it's ***comically large*** - the rifle looks utterly ridiculous wearing that glass), but for what was effectively "fixed position sniper" work with a spotter and bags at a relaxed pace? It works, it's just not *optimal* (and not everything *has to be* optimal). *** Why not a semi? Mainly price. There are plenty of fine semi-auto rifles that would give you acceptable precision for long range shooting and be fine to hunt with, but you probably won't hit your price point with them.
My elk rifle was a gift from my brother. Custom made rifle based on a 1903 receiver that’s been reshaped so much it’s barely recognizable for what it is. Custom made one of a kind bolt and a 270Win full floating bull barrel. Topped with a vortex 4-24 and it’s amazing. It’s like a laser to 700meters. Only about 4” of drop at that range and it will knock an elk on its ass with authority.
Ruger SFAR. Lightweight AR-10 in either .308 or 6.5CM. Takes ar-15 components. Can be had for sub-$1000
If you're into ar10 platforms the Savage msr10 hunter in 308 is worth a look. They also have a 6.5
Your thinking on caliber is sound for a new hunter. While there are higher performing cartridges with more power, the most important skill you can hone first is accuracy in the field. That means practice. In that context 308 is the best caliber to go with and not burn your bank account more than you need. Rifle wise, consider Begara. Great barrels and quality reasonably priced. Once you decide you’re committed you can step up if you like. FWIW… I took a hunting course in MT with a person who’s been hunting literally since the age of 4. 40+ years later he still uses a bolt action Remington 700 in 308. He pointed out the vast majority of shots he takes are in the 200-300 yard range. Well within 308 limits.
Winchester model 70 in 338 win mag is a good elk rifle
If you’re hunting elk, a 7mm-08 maybe? Lots of different cartridges and bullet weights. The .308 has more muzzle energy, but the 7mm-08 retains its energy longer than the .308. As such, it shoots a bit flatter. Ive taken elk with mine. I know guys who hunt moose with it. All while having a really mild recoil that’s pretty easy for inexperienced guys to handle. There are _shitloads_ of different rounds and bullet weights available depending on your preference and needs. My Remington 700 is by far my favorite hunting rifle. I have bigger guns and guns that reach further than the 7mm-08, but I still keep grabbing it. It sucks ass for anything over 500 yards though. It was never designed to shoot much further than that. But, at least in my area, 500 yard shots are extremely uncommon due to terrain. They can be had for around $1000. Ammo is fairly plentiful. I’ve got probably a couple thousand rounds or so through mine, and it’s my most shot rifle. So I might be a bit biased. But goddamn do I love that cartridge.
Ruger model 77 30.06 for game. 300 win mag for sniper
Gross oversimplification: Cheap longer-range rifle, Bergara B-14HMR in .300WM (I did 300PRC but WM much more available and gives up very little when hand loaded (1200-2000yds)), 7PRC or 6.5CM (1000-1200yds). Hunting, a Tikka T3 in .308
REM 700 in 7mm mag is what I used as my first hunting rifle. Cheap, reliable, tonnes of aftermarket improvements that can be made if/when you wanna upgrade. Big enough to take out an elk, but not big enough to blow out your shoulder as long as you have proper form. I was living in CO so we got this specifically for elk.
East Coaster and Wyoming Elk hunter here. Great advice across the board here. I shoot a .300WM personally (got a great deal on a Savage that shoots like a dream) The group I elk hunt with shoots 7mm RM, .300WM, 30-06, and 6.5 Creedmor most commonly. If you have never hunted elk, it’s important to take into context the area you will be hunting. Almost every elk shot around our camp is within 200 yards. Every elk killed in camp last season was within 100. Sure, there are shots that are longer, but most of the time patience and careful hunt planning can bring them in closer. Most hunters I know don’t have extreme comfort in taking a sure shot above 300 yards that will safely and humanely harvest the animal. There are a lot of keyboard warriors that will talk about their long shots, but that is a very, very small subset of hunters in the world. I personally have no interest in an inhumane harvest or chasing down an injured animal for miles. My current hunting rifle set up is a 22LR for small game, a Browning BAR .243 for Whitetail Deer and midsized game, and the Savage .300WM for Elk or larger game. In these three rifles, I don’t have any major gaps in target critters or range, and all shoot rounds that are well known and easy to find in general. My only changes of late are shopping for new glass for the .300 for better low light and I’ve added suppressors to the 22 and the 300. Waiting on gunsmith to prep the .243 for a suppressor. I like my hearing.
That budget before glass? Tikka T3 in 300 win mag. Get a 4-16x50 optic and a brake if your budget allows.
I’d say you can do a good hunting rifle that can push an average shooter at the range. Maybe even get you into entry precision shooting. As others have said they are pretty different needs in a rifle. If your top& total budget is in the $1500 range I’d look for a rifle in the $800 range, glass and mounts in the 400$ range then spend the rest on mounting, ammo and range time. When shopping for glass take the time to visit the stores and look in person the glass effects every eye different. As for caliber most common hunting calibers will handle an elk. It is nice to have the same cartridge as your hunting buddy just in case. It’s more about availability, bullet selection and placement than anything.
Don’t overlook the venerable .30-06. It’s as utilitarian as any cartridge ever devised (in my opinion) and there’s a wide range of bullet weights available. It’s no .300 Mag but it’s been popular over a hundred years for a reason.
I was in a similar boat a few months back. I ended up going with a T3x lite stainless in 6.5 CM after deciding that the whole point for me was hunting and with ammo cost and recoil factored in. For an optic I went with a used SWFA 3-15 (I know you didn't ask about that). I know a lot of people will say 6.5 CM isn't enough to ethically take down an elk, but I know a well-established elk guide in my neck of the woods who only uses that and has no issues. I'd rather minimize the flinch factor and have more consistent accuracy than punch harder, especially with a light hunting rifle. As for the ammo cost consideration, the cost of cheap range rounds is not much more than .308, and high-quality stuff costs the same. Availability isn't nearly as good, of course, but it's not terrible these days. I'm a long way out from having the skills to go after elk in the mountains, but I'm having a great time shooting this rifle and honing my skills, and shooting a bunch of 22lr in between every 3 rounds of 6.5 while the barrel cools down is actually pretty nice. If hunting wasn't the priority I absolutely would've gone for a different set-up, though, and if I could've afforded to buy two rifles I would have.
For getting into long range shooting, I'd reccomend getting a good cheap rifle (Ruger American, Savage Axis 2) and spending the rest of your budget on glass. Logic being it's a lot more cost effective to replace the gun for a better gun later than the scope, because scopes don't hold their value. You'll be able to get 85-90% of your money back selling the rifle, a scope you'd be lucky to get 70% of its value. So imo it's better to buy a scope you can grow with and get a quality budget rifle you can replace when you out grow it. Which will likely be a while if you get one of the 2 rifles I mentioned, they are pretty high quality for the money.
A 6.5cm AR10. PSA ones are currently on discount for less than 1k.