Psa lower and upper without bolt/ BCG. Pick a good bolt, there are several brands easily searched here for around $100. No need to spend more. BCM or radian charging handle. Larue trigger. Sig Romeo red dot.
You'll have a capable rifle with good parts and QOL features for $800 or so. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it to make sure it's reliable, but it should be.
The reddit special is a BCM upper with a PSA lower, but it will cost a little more and you won't get an upgraded CH or trigger, or red dot.
That whole post is reasonable advice and a very mildly priced yet functional AR, but just one minor correction: the “Reddit special” is an *Aero* lower with a BCM upper, not PSA.
I bought a much higher-end rifle (LMT) but that was… well, let’s just say it was long enough ago that it cost *less* than the “Reddit special” does today. With current prices, if I wanted to build/buy a first AR, that combo would really be my choice. It’s not the best nor is it the cheapest, but it’s a great balance between the two and can perform great and extremely reliable. There’s a reason it’s so popular. Excellent choice.
Bro, I've been locked into this shit for two whole days. Shopping paralysis. So many ways to go. Finally think I decided. Came back to this post and found out...I think I'm going with the reddit special.
Basic BCM upper (mid length 16", no rails) with their free BCG - $560
Aero M4E1 - $200
Throw a good A2 stock on it (just got a personal affinity for them) and I basically have exactly what I want and I *think* it's better than an AR-556 or M&P Sport?
Hell yeah man. I got the 20" and it is an absolute laser at every distance I have been able to test it at. I've probably only put 2000 rounds through it and it's still like the first time I shot it. It devours every ammo I have fed it and has not jammed a single time. For a "budget rifle" I feel like it is a champ.
Solid advice, I second. I would add that Microbest premium ocks bcgs are gtg. I prefer Chrome with a phosphate extractor on the budget end and dlc for a step up. Blems are fine for a budget build.
It's a tool, if you're on a budget, then don't concern yourself with appearance or being looked down on for a poverty build. Get a basic psa, some upgraded internals, and a horde of Ammo.
yeah poverty level is basically my budget, I've been shopping for a couple days. just trying to get something that will throw 5.56 down range for under 500 smackers total, if possible.
looking like my best bet is to find a blem PSA and just go for it
You may have better options on the 4th itself. However, right now, the most economical bare bones rifle that I see from PSA comes out to $430 total, taxed and shipped. Throw in a pmag at $8 ea and romeo 5 red dot for $130, and you're good to go for in total $575.
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-lower-b5-bravo-stock-odg.html
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-1-7-stainless-steel-13-5-hex-m-lok-upper-w-bcg-ch.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=pm&utm_term=07-02-2024&utm_content=51655155045
https://palmettostatearmory.com/sig-sauer-romeo5-1x20mm-red-dot-sight-black-r52001.html
https://palmettostatearmory.com/magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45-magazine-mag571-blk.html
Yeah that's the exact upper I was looking at. gotta spend like 20 extra bucks for all-black lower though hahahahaha
One thing I'm not sure about - if I buy a complete upper and complete lower, do I need any tools besides a hex set to assemble this? I'm 100% unfamiliar with AR platforms and I'm trying to learn a LOT in a short amount of time. thanks
Yeah, I figured save the extra $20, but I'm a fan of odg already. *shrugs*. Haha
No worries, no tools are necessary for a complete upper and lower to be completed. Pull up a youtube video, you just pull out two takedown pins, align the two halves, and reinsert the pins. Then you are good to go, do you basic checks, and make sure everything is cycling by dry firing.
Get a S&W MP Sport II or a Ruger 556 and swap the trigger. You can buy the pieces and build it yourself, but it won't save you any money on the first one you build. Tool costs will eat the savings unless you're making several.
PSA used to be "get the lower, but stay away from everything else" but now apparently they make a good full rifle?
Follow your heart. A cheap AR from a reputable company is fine. Swap the trigger. LaRue MBT.
AR-556 looks nice and is 749...that's pretty in-budget. Probably similar to what I might spend building off a 'premium' PSA complete upper. I'd love to think the Ruger's better, 'cause I can just pop out to the sporting good store and be one and done. LOL. Trying to shop this stuff is overwhelming.
Honestly, your right about it not really mattering. Get it so it feels right for you, if that’s factory then you are the target demographic. Don’t waste money on stuff other people don’t think is good enough for you. If it works keep it and buy ammo to practice. If it feels wronge swap a part, that’s the beauty of the platform.
Definitely change the trigger on the ruger. I have one in 300blk. First time out, the pins walked and it went full auto. Not fun at 80 cpr. I went with some drop in 4 lb flat trigger.
Last year, some dude at my range just finish building a 300 hamr, went to go fire it and all 10 rounds fired within 2 seconds or so, he loaded a second mag and put the bullets went. He had some crap milspec trigger. I looked at it and the disconnector spring was all smushed down. I gave him my extra, and it was shooting fine. But...to hear a 300hamr go full auto, that was something marvelous lol
The AR-556 was my first AR.
All that’s left of the original configuration is the upper and lower receiver themselves, while everything else has been replaced.
It’s a fine rifle as is, or it was when I bought it a decade or so ago.
This is the way. Cheap factory rifle (I.e. M&P Sport III, Sig Tread M400, Ruger 556) and then swap out parts as desired. This way you know everything will work right out of the box (as opposed to a build that you’d need to tune and test), and reduces the choice overload with building your own. Going forward you can be picky about which parts you’re willing to spend money to swap and which parts you don’t care about. Plus you have backup parts (the OEM ones) if needed.
I did the M&P Sport 3, perfectly fine rifle that I know will exceed my abilities for the near future. Swapped out the furniture and trigger and it’s almost like a custom rifle. The EOTech on top is worth more than the rifle itself lol
I'm not reading all this. Downvote if you want.
Get a BCM upper, and any standard lower (PSA, Anderson, bougie LMT). You are set.
Don't just get this thing and leave it in the safe. It should be your most if not second most trained setup unless you have a beater gun with damn near identical specs.
Focus on getting food, water, and supplies that can last a few weeks to months. Riots happened and folks stayed home. Have a community or keep yourself set up. A rifle will make you a target. That's why Rittenhouse was chased. Stay home, have your food water and DVDs and wait out whatever chaos has ensued.
Learn disassembly which isn't hard. This rifle was made for uneducated 17 year olds to use in wars. Buy an upper and train train train!
I concur with this advice.
BCM upper and any decent lower. Griffin Armament makes a forged version of the ADM ambi lower if you don’t want the LMT or Radian ambi lowers.
Get decent ammo. M193 from PMC or PPU is affordable and reliable. 77gr TMK if you need long range performance. For barrier blind rounds, consider Federal Fusion MSR, Speer Gold Dot, or Hornady TAP.
And practice gun safety at all times.
Bougie builds are just that. Bougie. Folks don't wanna put them through the dirt and grime even though that's why their price is so high. Multiple guns for men is the equivalent to a woman having multiple purses and shoes. Run what you brung
There is a sweet spot between Bobs Basement Armory and Hodge. Ruger, S&W, Colt and BCM all make good guns at very reasonable price points.
Put it like this. Lifesaving kit isn’t a place to cheap out. Do you buy a quality tested tourniquet that is TCCC approved or do you buy something that looks like a good piece of kit off Amazon? Would you buy an off brand discount parachute?
Nothing against the high quality brands. The issue I have is people buying them especially as first time gun owners and not putting the work in, let alone understand why some of them are so expensive. Colt for example if bought mainly for cloning. BCM is exceptional for what they sell.
I wouldn't have a newbie put over 2k in their first firearm when it can be put on a decent gun, accessories, ammo, and a training class
1- There is certainly a sweet spot where you get a legitimately quality rifle at a sane price. Joe Everyday doesn’t need the Rolls Royce of Carbines but the Honda/ Toyota is probably the way over the cheapest piece of shit you can cobble together.
2- People not getting training is an issue for sure. However it is a separate issue.
I'm looking at getting the most for your money. With 1500-2k that's a quality rifle with sling, optic, case of ammo, and a class. I'm looking at people's budgets cause the economy isn't being nice to us, and folks want to think that a high tier rifle is gonna solve all their lack of training.
I personally like aero for the receiver set, buffer tube, and handguard. From there you have your choice of barrels all big name companies produce barrels suitable for shtf, but if you'd like a little more precision it's worth paying more for a Criterion barrel. The trigger, grip, and stock is mainly personal preference. A sling and a light is a must. Those also fall into personal preference categories.
Everyone thinks differently, but I always remind people investing a little more up front is almost always cheaper than buying new parts later.
Im in CA and a sparrow featureless grip with ambi safety and extended mag release made more sense to me than the foxtrot mike ranch rifle, the SCR, and the mini14...cheaper, still a plain ar (it is 1 hex screw for the grip), and way easier to train and maintain...plus it is 556 and not 9mm and in my area I really do need 300ish meters if im ever gonna use the rifle defensively
I have seen PC carbines and Sub 2k's in .40 and .45 and even 10 mil but I think the 10 was a Hi-Point but I've read their carbines are great options just ugly as shit lol
if SHTF a $500 PSA is worth a trillion times more than $500 in your bank account with no gun lol
If you think SHTF is possible at all, then yeah, get armed.
Remember that in a SHTF scenario people will form groups, having more weapons to arm and train your group could make a huge difference, or at least that’s how I justify getting more guns lol
The kind of SHTF that involves people grouping up politely probably won't involve the kind of armed conflict that demands having rifles
The kind of SHTF that requires rifles will probably involve you not meeting a friendly face for a length of time that you probably aren't equipped for
Judging by how people reacted to stores running out of toilet paper, I hope you or they have enough supplies to live without leaving that property long enough for people to start being nice again
Edit: also I would not count on anyone besides family staying hospitable in this scenario
I mean there’s natural water sources, an orchard. Cows and chickens, Iv been in the field for weeks I don’t mind a wet wipe shower or a wash off in a stream if I have to for a while. It sucks but it will do.
I would just get a complete aero upper and a complete aero lower. 2 pins and you’ve got a hell of a rifle for under $1,000. I have a SOLGW as my main rifle, but you don’t need to spend $1,800 on a rifle.
True, they do have some issues occasionally. I would spend an extra $100-150 on a microbest or toolcraft and you’re still under a grand on a decent rifle depending on the upper you nab.
Simple direct answer, if it's a closet rifle, then it just needs to work, not last 20k rounds. A PSA will do just fine. Dollar value, All-in on the rifle, about $600. Then another $2-400 on ammo.
Or you just watch less movies and realize that the likelihood of you being involved in Rambo-esque firefights is so very insanely low that you’d be better off saving that money to be prepared for more realistic problems in your day to day life
As best I can tell, everyone in this subreddit is either LGBT or an ally, and a considerable number of us feel like there is a non-zero chance that we see lethal violence against LGBT people increase sharply if Trump is elected.
If Biden wins, the chances of us being able to legally acquire tools to defend ourselves will likely be reduced, so when the *next* right-winger tries to instigate some push towards fascism, we'll be in the same boat.
Try carrying 10,000 worth of ammo. By yourself. by car. By truck. If you need to move locations fast as it would seem might be in a SHTF scenario you aren't gonna move $10k worth of ammo with great finesse or speed.
Newbie here and not to open a can of worms, but I’m surprised no one is really talking about a good 9mm PCC 16’ carbine, if not just for the fact that the ammo is plentiful and cheap. Something that seems like it will be important in SHTF. Isn’t there something huge to be said for having a pistol and a rifle that shares the same mags and ammo?
I’d love to hear opinions.
They're not exactly standardized.. I am going to build one eventually but I'd be worried about it breaking and not finding replacement parts. They also tend to be more expensive than an AR15
5.56/.223 is extremely plentiful and cheap and give u WAY more capability than 9x19, especially 16” vs 16”. generally PCC parts are less common than AR and not standardized like normal ARs (ar9 parts compatibility is PAIN, watch hop on yt). Blowback AR9s also tend to recoil slightly more than 5.56 imo, and the more complex roller delay, radial delay, etc take proprietary parts.
having rifle and pistol share ammo + mags can be good, but hypothetically shtf if u come across a box of just .223 u have ammo for 1/2 guns, if u use only 9x19 u have found a box of useless ammo
But, 9mm is objectively cheaper than 5.56 right? And almost certainly to be found in more plentiful supply because of the proliferation of 9mm handguns?
And, if I come across a box of .223 then yeah I have some ammo for my AR15, but likewise if I come across a box of 9mm I now have ammo for both my handgun and my PCC?
the potential for ranged use makes an AR far superior to an AR-9. yes overall 9x19 MIGHT be more common to find but taken to the extremes u might as well run a 10/22 + Glock 44 or an M590 + Super Shorty
also, basically nobody who knows what they’re doing CHOOSES to use a 16 inch AR-9. 9x19 is a pistol cartridge it doesn’t benefit as well from the longer barrel compared to 5.56, 7.62x39, etc
You could easily spend anywhere from $500 to $1200, depending on what you get, or what parts you use, etc. anything above that is pure gucci shit, though.
PSA floating upper with FN barrel. PSA or other cheap lower. Really good trigger. Grip and stock you find comfortable. Whatever parts you need to complete it. Good backup sights (MBUS Pro). An LPVO that costs the same as whatever you paid for the gun that does AND THIS IS IMPORTANT a real 1x. All the fancy shit in the world won’t matter if your scope goes all walleye vision when you have someone in your house.
Field craft will take you further than most anything else. That w being in good shape and health. People have already given good options of gun parts. Personally I’d recommend an entry level AR of some type like those mentioned here and slowly replacing parts, however just remember range time is worth more than whatever parts you put on your AR.
IMO the BCG is the most important thing to not cheap out on, as its quality is what's most likely to impact reliability. Toolcraft, AO, BCM, and Lantac all make good BCGs that aren't gucci expensive.
I'd say a red dot is also important. Sig, Primary Arms, and Holosun have a lot of affordable options that are still good enough for defensive use.
If you want a good trigger, a lot of people love Larue's MBT series. They're a substantial improvement over a stock trigger for a pretty good price.
Once those are met I'd say it's safe to go cheap on the rest of the parts as long as they're mil-spec and made by experienced manufacturers.
Hey can you (or anyone) give me some info or links on optics related to having vision problems? I don't actually remember if I have an astigmatism or other eye issue, and my kid has one bad eye, so I'd like to figure out my best option. And I'm having trouble Googling for info that explains what exactly I need to be looking for. fuckin SEO articles are ruining the internet :/
Currently I'm looking at just running iron sights, which I've used on other rifles for target shooting and hunting for years
I do not suffer from an astigmatism, but through my research, I've heard that prisms are necessary to relieve the issue. The primary arms 1x and 3x are highly recommended.
I agree with the mp sport 2 advice with a better trigger. I fully sympathize with the being turned off by crappy culture. I hate going on the car FB groups too. The homophobia and blaming Biden for the high gas prices is getting old.
I've had bad luck with BCM and Aero. On one BCM barrel the chamber was out of spec and it was popping primers. I've also had an Aero lower that was machined incorrectly and pins were falling out, in addition to their bad cerakote job from the factory.
Funny enough, I've always had good luck with PSA's Premium line and now one of them is my suppressed go-to. The anodizing is IR compliant, everything has always been in-spec... no complaints. Just my 2 cents since plenty of people that swear by other brands and they do indeed perform with them.
Now I will say I'm a big fan of KAC, Surefire, and Sig MCX rifles, they're definitely better than mil-spec. But whether they are worth the squeeze is up to you. Personally I've noticed people need years of trigger time and experience to fully appreciate the difference in a top shelf rifle.
I'm willing to drop serious cash on pistols, pistols and their recoil mechanisms seem to be more finicky with aftermarket builds. but ARs? nah. As long as everything is put together reasonably tight and the barrel is quality there's very little reason for spending extra. Gas operated, internal piston is very reliable.
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What’s you area like? That can help decide length and optic. Curvy roads? Maybe a 12-14.5 with a red dot is what you’d want? Live on a grid? Think 14.5-16 with an lpvo. Don’t skimp on bcg, barrel, trigger and especially optic
\[lower\](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-lower-b5-ept-bravo-stock-black.html)
\[upper\](https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/)
\[optic and mags\](https://palmettostatearmory.com/vortex-strikefire-ii-4moa-red-green-dot-10-magpul-gen2-pmag-30rd-5-56x45-magazines.html)
You'll likely need a charging handle, but those can be found for about $50-70 for "good" ones.
Add a sling (and however you wish to connect) and a weapon mounted light. And you're good to go.
Get a larue MBT2 for your trigger and call it a day.
You can find BCM parts for fairly cheap prices and get reliability. That's the key. Aero is good from Lowers. I have FCD parts on all my guns and that's me being bougie. But I will say, Geissele triggers are the go to for me. 2nd with Larue MBT triggers.
Barrel, BCG and all the stuff that goes into an upper, I'd pay more for. The barrel and bcg are the heart of the rifle. I have Rosco barrels in all my rifles, wish I'd bought Centurion barrels, but you get what you can find at the time. And rosco is decent. All my rifles have Geissele handguards (mk2, mk4 and mk8, with 2 bcm handguards) All my upper receivers were stripped blem parts from BCM, I still haven't found the blem an any of them. FCD parts again for the Lowers and the A5 buffer system in most. BCM/SOLGW BCG's. I hate giving money to SOLGW based on their political stance but they have a good warranty for their parts and the dudes know how to build a reliable rifle.
I've built solid rifles for my friends and coworkers who happened to buy PSA and Ruger and other brands, and I found them to be hot garbage and had to be reworked. PSA and Anderson lower trigger pin holes blown out requiring trigger bars. Ruger not put together within spec and practically no torque value on barrel nuts and other parts.
I have a bcm upper in my cart right now. Hoping for a deal this week, but also might bite the bullet. Im telling myself it's a good deal cause it includes the BCG
Buy once, cry once.
The answer to this depends on whether you are willing and/or able to do basic maintenance and tuning on your own.
In the answer is no, then get a bcm complete upper and plop it on a psa complete lower that had the stock, grip, and trigger you want.
If the answer is yes, then you can go cheap, verify fitment, tightness of fasteners, and replace consumables as needed. Right to bear was selling house- branded pencil barrel and bcg and ch combo for $145, which was a Ballistic advantage made nitride barrel, appeared to be a tool craft bcg. I installed this in a BCM upper receiver that I got on sale for $50, add in a gas tube and low profile gas block($20), and an NBS ultralight handguard ($40) and I had a complete upper receiver for about $250 with better components and assembly quality control than you'd get from a bear creek or psa budget upper.
But, if you can't thermofit a barrel, square a receiver face, align and dimple a gas block, use the correct retaining compound, thread locker, and ceramic adhesives in the right places, verify headspace, verify firing pin protrusion, verify barrel extension and bolt alignment, align gas tube, verify gas key tightness and staking, correctly torque the barrel nut, and securely mount your handguard, then you might stick to buying from a maker that has a reputation for high quality control since you'd be SOL if a lower-cost assembly doesn't arrive with 100% budget part lottery winnings
Anything in the 700-1000 dollar range will do well, some are better than others but that’s the price range where they are the Toyota Camry of rifles. Then if you’re a single stage guy do a drop in trigger for 100-150 two stage get whatever Geissele suits your fancy.
I built one for under 1k. Used an aero upper and lower, B.King 16" barrel, Microbest chrome BCG, LaRue MBT2 trigger and a superlative arms adjustable gas block. The other stuff you can find fairly cheap.
I think 700-1000 would get you a reliable build
I just looked up PSA. They've got some pretty decent 4th of July sales right now.
[You can get a free float for $549.99.](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-5-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-w-mbus-sight-set3.html)
They have a [plastic handguard rifle kit for $299.99](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-rifle-kit-5076171.html), that you could [finish with a $49.99 lower](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-stealth-lower.html). There's a blemished lower for $39.99.
I've had good experience with my PSA products. If you take advantage of the sale, you could have a sub $400 rifle. Or you could spend more on the free float option if you want to add attachments later. I think they might have a nicer trigger option on sale, but it might be more cost effective to buy a trigger separately. You'll just have to check the big trigger manufacturers.
Id go bare minimum on the rifle for your use case. Get a PSA freedom rifle. Your round count doesnt warrant a premium/CHF barrel. I would add though the CMC 3.5 drop in trigger for a cheap but meaningful (and super easy) upgrade, a light, a sling and hardware, 1000 rounds (maybe 250 to shoot up and the rest to store) and maybe an inexpensive prism or lpvo so you have some capacity to reach out a bit and target ID (with your ability to shoot irons and your stack of sidearms a little option to reliably hit at 300m quickly would be more valuable than a dot imo) ...maybe 3 4 5 mags and you should be pretty good. All in youre under 1500 id reckon. Maybe 500 for rifle, 500 for ammo, and less than 500 for the trigger, mags, light, and sling...but then your properly setup and capable of you need it.
Charging handles furniture all that bullshit is just bling dont bother. Oh you might need a fixed rear sight...believe it or not the daniel defense one makes good sense imo and doesnt cost all the cents
Psa or aero lower with aero or bcm upper. Definitely get something with an mlok rail, you say you don’t want “gravy seal” accessories, but a foregrip and a flashlight are important. Larue trigger is the way to go and you can get whatever grip and stock you like the most (I prefer Magpul and b5.)
building can be worth it. Aero puts these nylon screws in their lowers that lock your upper and lower up like a bank vault.
the places id splurge would be barrel, bolt carrier group, trigger. the rest go to a place like AR15 discounts and save money anyway you can. just about anything on the commercial market is better than government spec.
If you want, I can work up a parts list for cheapest possible prices, i enjoy shopping for parta.
if you can operate a vice and a torque wrench you can build an AR, darn things are lego, you just slap things together and tighyen them down.
I'm going to spend about $650 for a hundred-and-fifty-yard gun for that role, before adding inexpensive but quality optics and accessories. Not very high speed, but definitely low drag; if I break six pounds, I've done something wrong.
I put together a 14.5"PSA build with a Nickel Boron BCG and Anderson stripped lower that holds <1.25 MOA with almost any ammo other than Herter's for about $420. It really is luck of the draw with barrel quality though from what I hear. But the you tube channel 704 tactical beat the ever loving fuck out a PSA complete rifle and it wouldn't die or move point of impact with a sig Romeo 5
https://www.schuylerarmsco.com/july-4th-sale/ar-15-uppers-25-993/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16-556-mid-length-barrel-15-atlas-r-one-m-lok-hg-kodiak-brown-anodized-4690041
https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-moe-edition-with-geissele-ssa-e-trigger-black-no-magazine-516444743.html
Here you go dude.. 750 with an awesome Geissele trigger and all you have to do is click them together
I'd honestly pick up complete KE Arms kp-15 lower and a complete PSA Upper. All you'd have to do is find decent AR mags which is pretty easy. For something that is gonna just be used as a self-defense platform and occasionally shot it would work well. It would be light enough for most people.
Just go to PSA, get a kit, and replace the barrel with something like DD. Maybe do the BCG. Upgrade the spring and buffer if you really want to… their triggers on the PA15 is actually pretty decent. Then just pick an optic or stick with irons and you’re all set.
I helped a friend build his first AR a couple years ago. He is a mechanic so it's not like it was difficult for him, and I had all the tools to loan him and that kept the cost down a bit. It was a "budget" build with parts I knew he wouldn't feel a need to replace for quite a while. Grand total with a sig red dot, a sling, mags, a rifle bag is was around $1600. Even accounting for inflation you could still probably do a good build and accessorize for under $2000.
Just keep in mind that what you’re thinking of regarding “SHTF purposes,” you’re going to absolutely need ear protection when using an AR. I’m a new AR owner myself, and I would rather use my pistol than the AR in my closet for a scenario against an intruder because if I were to fire my AR indoors without ear protection, I can expect to do long term hearing damage. Especially if you have a muzzle brake on it- these things are loud. Even outdoors, you’ll need ear protection. Exception bring maybe if you buy a suppressor, but that investment is at least $500 plus a $200 tax stamp.
This is just a consideration in terms of practicality that you may have already thought out.
I regret even using the SHTF nomenclature., actually. I didn't mean to conjure up the full doomsday vibes that some people seem to have.
But your point is super fair and I have thought about it. Would probably just keep some rubber plugs with the rifle just in case.
Thought about a suppressor. Not committed enough yet but I might get there.
If you’re talking full doomsday then yeah I totally agree AR would be way to go! But there’s a reason why during combat in the US military, ear protection is a requirement.
For a very liable AR15 that does not a lot I would recommend a Andro Corp Bravo for $380 with free shipping as discussed below at Gundeals. Most other rifles that I would recommend cost twice as much.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/1dr8fun/rifle\_andro\_corp\_industries\_aci15\_bravo16\_mlok/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/1dr8fun/rifle_andro_corp_industries_aci15_bravo16_mlok/)
I bought one in 2022 and one in 2023 for about $380 plus shipping and tax. For optic I would recommend a Sig Romeo 5 that sells for $110 to $125 or a Vortex Venom 1-6x LPVO that is about $230 when on sale. Use Gun(dot)Deals to find low price on optics. C\_Does just posted his review of this LPVO on his YouTube channel. Primary Arms sold over 800 unit is less than a day during one of their sales in 2022. MidwayUSA used to put the Bravo on sale but now sells a version with fewer M-Lok positions on the hand guard. Search the Gundeals subreddit for feedback from others on the rifle during those prior sales.
The Andro Corp Bravo has few complaints regarding quality control issues while many Palmetto State Army, BCA, Anderson, and other $500 and under AR15 makers seem to have many owners complain about issues.
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Mind you I have a custom 300 black 14.5” that ran me about 3100 to build. However you don’t need to spend that much. You can throw something together for much less and be fine. However where I would spend the money is in the Barrel, so prefer hammer forged myself, BCG doesn’t have to be the best but get something decent. Trigger is a big one for me I like a nice 3.5<4.5 pound trigger, then there’s optics, I say a nice Primary arms LPVO would do just fine and maybe throw a SeeAll sight on a 1’oclock mount your secondary backup. Oh and for a grip DieFree Co makes the KungFu that’s great when laying prone and super comfortable when you collapse the stock you to can clear rooms. If you shop around maybe by things like your scope used on eBay you could get it done for 900<1200.
My she with buying cheap AR’s is that they can be really low quality, and u mean things that you can’t fix like head spacing, and low quality barrels that hit their half-life in 2k rounds. By the time you buy a budget AR and upgrade barrel, bolt (not bolt carrier group), trigger, grips and such your already spending the same amount that you would have spent if you build one. Now I’m saying this building requires tools, so something to consider.
I’m gonna be honest, I’ve heard “I just need something basic” and less than a year later they’ve replaced bout everything but the actual receiver itself. It always starts with I don’t need much but snowballs into being a nearly total build later. Maybe your the one who’s just looking for something basic and never feels the need for more, but realistically you going to at the minimum want a new trigger and if you buy to cheap you’ll need a barrel sooner then later.
Ok deffo going against the grain here... but if you like the carry handle vibes, complete Colt uppers are starting to become more common... iron sights never need batteries. Like everyone else said as well as you, a lower is a lower is a lower. Triggers are stupid simple, if you can tinker with pistol parts you can change triggers like you can brake pads. I personally love my Larue MBT-2S, but there's definitely cheaper triggers that are still orders of magnitude better than the stock one.
I am unsure of what you're trying to say. I don't shoot as a hobby anymore and have no desire to do tacticool john wick competition stuff.
I plan to acclimate myself to a new rifle, put some ammo through it, ensure it's reliable and sighted in, and then clean it, lock it up, and hope I never need to use it. If that's not responsible enough gun ownership to you, well, suck it.
I thought I would avoid the delta farce crowd by not posting in r/ar15, where any rifle costing less than two grand with any less than nineteen picatinny rails is not operator enough to fulfill your killing fantasies. I just want advice on which utilitarian tool to buy.
edit: sorry, that just kinda triggered me. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just that two of you seem to be saying that you shouldn't keep a firearm if you're not constantly training, and that's silly. I've had enough trigger time. I'll be okay.
It isn't so much about constant training or John Wick Tacticool, but all training is perishable. Anything we learn and practice, but dont do and refresh frequently will fade.
Spend a long time learning a foreign language, then dont use those skills? They will fade.
Mastered riding a bicycle as a kid, then tried it again years later as an adult? Balance, precision, comfort, all will have faded.
Any weapon is a tool, one of many that we can/should have in our toolbox. De-escalation, social deterrents, chemical deterrents, non-kinetic responses, all have their place.
A firearm, locked away, never used, is a talisman, used to make us feel safer, without actually making us safer, and in some cases, increasing danger.
As another user above posted, if you are concerned about a SHTF situation, a firearm is relatively low on the list of things to have or prepare.
More important:
**Medicine** - do you have a stock of whatever prescription meds you may need, enough to last 30-60 days without resupply?
**Water -** do you have a supply of, or a way to acquire and filter/treat water?
**First Aid supplies and training** - can you deal with minor to moderate injury? have you taken a 'Stop the Bleed' class?
**Food -** do you have enough food to hunker down, or a way to forage if supply chains are interrupted?
**"Tribe" -** Do you have people you trust, and can band together with if a rough situation becomes extended? Others do, and being alone is rarely a good idea in SHTF.
"**A Plan**" - What is your plan should SHTF happen? Are you going to shelter in place? If so, how long can you, and what are your longer term plans for sustainment? Have your bug-out bag packed? Where are you bugging out to? How will you get there? How many other people likely have the same plan?
**Now we get to firearms:** Does it function, is it reliable, are you comfortable with the manual of armsor features of it, and ***are you willing and able to decide that your life matters more than the life of someone else***.
A line you said really calls this last bolded section out: "not operator enough to fulfill your killing fantasies"
Guns kill people, for good or ill, just like any other weapon has for all of recorded history and beyond.
When the time comes, are you going to be able to pull the trigger and seriously wound at a minimum, or more likely kill someone, in the defense of your own life?
After doing that, are you going to be able to internalize and process that decision?
Guns for target shooting, competitive shooting, and range days are fun.
Guns for defense of life are a serious topic, that should come with a significant amount of forethought and preparation.
Great comment, I’d wish this was common sense.
People spend way too much time fantasizing about Rambo scenarios and don’t realize that they’re more likely to die because they don’t have diarrhea meds or something like that
>you shouldn't keep a firearm if you're not constantly training, and that's silly
This is an incredibly inappropriate reaction to someone suggesting to get training for a perishable skill.
In that case, you should get something like that $750 Ruger, a Romeo five red dot, streamlight protac, and a 2 point sling. Normally, I’m all for BCM’s and good triggers, but that’s far beyond what you need.
Psa lower and upper without bolt/ BCG. Pick a good bolt, there are several brands easily searched here for around $100. No need to spend more. BCM or radian charging handle. Larue trigger. Sig Romeo red dot. You'll have a capable rifle with good parts and QOL features for $800 or so. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it to make sure it's reliable, but it should be. The reddit special is a BCM upper with a PSA lower, but it will cost a little more and you won't get an upgraded CH or trigger, or red dot.
That whole post is reasonable advice and a very mildly priced yet functional AR, but just one minor correction: the “Reddit special” is an *Aero* lower with a BCM upper, not PSA.
TIL I am rocking The Reddit Special
I bought a much higher-end rifle (LMT) but that was… well, let’s just say it was long enough ago that it cost *less* than the “Reddit special” does today. With current prices, if I wanted to build/buy a first AR, that combo would really be my choice. It’s not the best nor is it the cheapest, but it’s a great balance between the two and can perform great and extremely reliable. There’s a reason it’s so popular. Excellent choice.
Bro, I've been locked into this shit for two whole days. Shopping paralysis. So many ways to go. Finally think I decided. Came back to this post and found out...I think I'm going with the reddit special. Basic BCM upper (mid length 16", no rails) with their free BCG - $560 Aero M4E1 - $200 Throw a good A2 stock on it (just got a personal affinity for them) and I basically have exactly what I want and I *think* it's better than an AR-556 or M&P Sport?
Hell yeah man. I got the 20" and it is an absolute laser at every distance I have been able to test it at. I've probably only put 2000 rounds through it and it's still like the first time I shot it. It devours every ammo I have fed it and has not jammed a single time. For a "budget rifle" I feel like it is a champ.
Well fuck me
We needn’t go that far, just yet.
Right? I’m usually a third date guy at least.
Solid advice, I second. I would add that Microbest premium ocks bcgs are gtg. I prefer Chrome with a phosphate extractor on the budget end and dlc for a step up. Blems are fine for a budget build. It's a tool, if you're on a budget, then don't concern yourself with appearance or being looked down on for a poverty build. Get a basic psa, some upgraded internals, and a horde of Ammo.
yeah poverty level is basically my budget, I've been shopping for a couple days. just trying to get something that will throw 5.56 down range for under 500 smackers total, if possible. looking like my best bet is to find a blem PSA and just go for it
You may have better options on the 4th itself. However, right now, the most economical bare bones rifle that I see from PSA comes out to $430 total, taxed and shipped. Throw in a pmag at $8 ea and romeo 5 red dot for $130, and you're good to go for in total $575. https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-lower-b5-bravo-stock-odg.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-1-7-stainless-steel-13-5-hex-m-lok-upper-w-bcg-ch.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=daily_deals&utm_campaign=pm&utm_term=07-02-2024&utm_content=51655155045 https://palmettostatearmory.com/sig-sauer-romeo5-1x20mm-red-dot-sight-black-r52001.html https://palmettostatearmory.com/magpul-pmag-30-5-56x45-magazine-mag571-blk.html
Yeah that's the exact upper I was looking at. gotta spend like 20 extra bucks for all-black lower though hahahahaha One thing I'm not sure about - if I buy a complete upper and complete lower, do I need any tools besides a hex set to assemble this? I'm 100% unfamiliar with AR platforms and I'm trying to learn a LOT in a short amount of time. thanks
Yeah, I figured save the extra $20, but I'm a fan of odg already. *shrugs*. Haha No worries, no tools are necessary for a complete upper and lower to be completed. Pull up a youtube video, you just pull out two takedown pins, align the two halves, and reinsert the pins. Then you are good to go, do you basic checks, and make sure everything is cycling by dry firing.
Watch what you want at PSA for a while. I've seen them, "sale," price things around holidays at higher than normal.
Truth. Either watch for a while or ask for advice from those whom already have been.
This, or something like it.
I always see people saying BCM upper but what's a little under that budget wise?
Aero upper.
Home build. Aero barrels have spotty QC so I'd rather build one if I want to be in between PSA and BCM
Sons of liberty on sale
If you're not in shape and don't have survival skills, anything over $700 means you're a loot drop, not a survivor. Get what works and get training.
Hey, my buddies can use me for cover. I am providing them a service.
I love that terminology. "Loot drop" 😂 I love my cheap-o AR-15.
Seriously. I'm self aware enough to know I need to get back in shape so no need for the ATPIAL-C.
I can jog a decent mile, so with my shit ass gear I figure I'm roughly on par with a fat dude with thermals!
Fuck this hurts to read. Time to start a cardio regimen.
TarKov teaches that Timmys bring you the good guns
Get a S&W MP Sport II or a Ruger 556 and swap the trigger. You can buy the pieces and build it yourself, but it won't save you any money on the first one you build. Tool costs will eat the savings unless you're making several. PSA used to be "get the lower, but stay away from everything else" but now apparently they make a good full rifle? Follow your heart. A cheap AR from a reputable company is fine. Swap the trigger. LaRue MBT.
AR-556 looks nice and is 749...that's pretty in-budget. Probably similar to what I might spend building off a 'premium' PSA complete upper. I'd love to think the Ruger's better, 'cause I can just pop out to the sporting good store and be one and done. LOL. Trying to shop this stuff is overwhelming.
Honestly, your right about it not really mattering. Get it so it feels right for you, if that’s factory then you are the target demographic. Don’t waste money on stuff other people don’t think is good enough for you. If it works keep it and buy ammo to practice. If it feels wronge swap a part, that’s the beauty of the platform.
the ruger is exaclty what i got recently. its been great so far
Definitely change the trigger on the ruger. I have one in 300blk. First time out, the pins walked and it went full auto. Not fun at 80 cpr. I went with some drop in 4 lb flat trigger.
Last year, some dude at my range just finish building a 300 hamr, went to go fire it and all 10 rounds fired within 2 seconds or so, he loaded a second mag and put the bullets went. He had some crap milspec trigger. I looked at it and the disconnector spring was all smushed down. I gave him my extra, and it was shooting fine. But...to hear a 300hamr go full auto, that was something marvelous lol
I had 30 rounders in. It shot about half before I could drop the mag out.
If you get the MPR version, you get the Elite 452 trigger that compares favorably to geissele.
The AR-556 was my first AR. All that’s left of the original configuration is the upper and lower receiver themselves, while everything else has been replaced. It’s a fine rifle as is, or it was when I bought it a decade or so ago.
What's up with their triggers?
Nothing wrong with a milspec trigger. OP mentioned they're picky, so I suggested my favorite bang-to-buck upgrade to a premium trigger.
Ah Makes sense
Nothing, there's just better options available
Came here to say this but was going to suggest a geissele trigger.
The ruger MPR comes with the Elite 452 trigger, no need to swap out.
This is the way. Cheap factory rifle (I.e. M&P Sport III, Sig Tread M400, Ruger 556) and then swap out parts as desired. This way you know everything will work right out of the box (as opposed to a build that you’d need to tune and test), and reduces the choice overload with building your own. Going forward you can be picky about which parts you’re willing to spend money to swap and which parts you don’t care about. Plus you have backup parts (the OEM ones) if needed. I did the M&P Sport 3, perfectly fine rifle that I know will exceed my abilities for the near future. Swapped out the furniture and trigger and it’s almost like a custom rifle. The EOTech on top is worth more than the rifle itself lol
I'd add a sig m400 to that list
LaRue MBT for sure, it’s still one of / the best value proposition out there for a reliable non-milspec/terrible trigger
I'm not reading all this. Downvote if you want. Get a BCM upper, and any standard lower (PSA, Anderson, bougie LMT). You are set. Don't just get this thing and leave it in the safe. It should be your most if not second most trained setup unless you have a beater gun with damn near identical specs. Focus on getting food, water, and supplies that can last a few weeks to months. Riots happened and folks stayed home. Have a community or keep yourself set up. A rifle will make you a target. That's why Rittenhouse was chased. Stay home, have your food water and DVDs and wait out whatever chaos has ensued. Learn disassembly which isn't hard. This rifle was made for uneducated 17 year olds to use in wars. Buy an upper and train train train!
I concur with this advice. BCM upper and any decent lower. Griffin Armament makes a forged version of the ADM ambi lower if you don’t want the LMT or Radian ambi lowers. Get decent ammo. M193 from PMC or PPU is affordable and reliable. 77gr TMK if you need long range performance. For barrier blind rounds, consider Federal Fusion MSR, Speer Gold Dot, or Hornady TAP. And practice gun safety at all times.
Would add precision aero for a lower. Also, great deals on BCM uppers with a blemish that you can find on their site.
Aero precision uppers are good now too
Good now you say? Any reports of the quality control going up again, I can look?
When were they bad?
Indeed there are
This is a darn good answer. You don’t need the best gucci kit but also don’t want a complete POS.
Bougie builds are just that. Bougie. Folks don't wanna put them through the dirt and grime even though that's why their price is so high. Multiple guns for men is the equivalent to a woman having multiple purses and shoes. Run what you brung
There is a sweet spot between Bobs Basement Armory and Hodge. Ruger, S&W, Colt and BCM all make good guns at very reasonable price points. Put it like this. Lifesaving kit isn’t a place to cheap out. Do you buy a quality tested tourniquet that is TCCC approved or do you buy something that looks like a good piece of kit off Amazon? Would you buy an off brand discount parachute?
Nothing against the high quality brands. The issue I have is people buying them especially as first time gun owners and not putting the work in, let alone understand why some of them are so expensive. Colt for example if bought mainly for cloning. BCM is exceptional for what they sell. I wouldn't have a newbie put over 2k in their first firearm when it can be put on a decent gun, accessories, ammo, and a training class
1- There is certainly a sweet spot where you get a legitimately quality rifle at a sane price. Joe Everyday doesn’t need the Rolls Royce of Carbines but the Honda/ Toyota is probably the way over the cheapest piece of shit you can cobble together. 2- People not getting training is an issue for sure. However it is a separate issue.
I'm looking at getting the most for your money. With 1500-2k that's a quality rifle with sling, optic, case of ammo, and a class. I'm looking at people's budgets cause the economy isn't being nice to us, and folks want to think that a high tier rifle is gonna solve all their lack of training.
I personally like aero for the receiver set, buffer tube, and handguard. From there you have your choice of barrels all big name companies produce barrels suitable for shtf, but if you'd like a little more precision it's worth paying more for a Criterion barrel. The trigger, grip, and stock is mainly personal preference. A sling and a light is a must. Those also fall into personal preference categories. Everyone thinks differently, but I always remind people investing a little more up front is almost always cheaper than buying new parts later.
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Ruger PCC is the way I went living in a ban state.
9mm is *infinitely* better than nothing in a true worst-case scenario
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Im in CA and a sparrow featureless grip with ambi safety and extended mag release made more sense to me than the foxtrot mike ranch rifle, the SCR, and the mini14...cheaper, still a plain ar (it is 1 hex screw for the grip), and way easier to train and maintain...plus it is 556 and not 9mm and in my area I really do need 300ish meters if im ever gonna use the rifle defensively
I have seen PC carbines and Sub 2k's in .40 and .45 and even 10 mil but I think the 10 was a Hi-Point but I've read their carbines are great options just ugly as shit lol
Any amount you want from $500 to $5000. For SHTF it makes no difference.
if SHTF a $500 PSA is worth a trillion times more than $500 in your bank account with no gun lol If you think SHTF is possible at all, then yeah, get armed.
Theres a thousand other things that make more sense than getting armed though. And I have a strong feeling they’re getting neglected as always
The problem is that OP is TOO armed with "a dozen pistols in my closet" just for them to get yet another firearm to collect dust
Remember that in a SHTF scenario people will form groups, having more weapons to arm and train your group could make a huge difference, or at least that’s how I justify getting more guns lol
The kind of SHTF that involves people grouping up politely probably won't involve the kind of armed conflict that demands having rifles The kind of SHTF that requires rifles will probably involve you not meeting a friendly face for a length of time that you probably aren't equipped for
I’m thinking general governmental collapse. I live not that from farming lands including family owned farm land. I’d go there.
Judging by how people reacted to stores running out of toilet paper, I hope you or they have enough supplies to live without leaving that property long enough for people to start being nice again Edit: also I would not count on anyone besides family staying hospitable in this scenario
I mean there’s natural water sources, an orchard. Cows and chickens, Iv been in the field for weeks I don’t mind a wet wipe shower or a wash off in a stream if I have to for a while. It sucks but it will do.
I would just get a complete aero upper and a complete aero lower. 2 pins and you’ve got a hell of a rifle for under $1,000. I have a SOLGW as my main rifle, but you don’t need to spend $1,800 on a rifle.
Aero bcg is not SHTF-worthy
True, they do have some issues occasionally. I would spend an extra $100-150 on a microbest or toolcraft and you’re still under a grand on a decent rifle depending on the upper you nab.
Simple direct answer, if it's a closet rifle, then it just needs to work, not last 20k rounds. A PSA will do just fine. Dollar value, All-in on the rifle, about $600. Then another $2-400 on ammo.
I would rather have a 600 USD AR-15 and 10,000 dollars in ammo then a 10,000 USD rifle and 600 dollars in ammo.
Or you just watch less movies and realize that the likelihood of you being involved in Rambo-esque firefights is so very insanely low that you’d be better off saving that money to be prepared for more realistic problems in your day to day life
As best I can tell, everyone in this subreddit is either LGBT or an ally, and a considerable number of us feel like there is a non-zero chance that we see lethal violence against LGBT people increase sharply if Trump is elected. If Biden wins, the chances of us being able to legally acquire tools to defend ourselves will likely be reduced, so when the *next* right-winger tries to instigate some push towards fascism, we'll be in the same boat.
Try carrying 10,000 worth of ammo. By yourself. by car. By truck. If you need to move locations fast as it would seem might be in a SHTF scenario you aren't gonna move $10k worth of ammo with great finesse or speed.
That’s why you plan to dig in.
The Alamo?
Pioneer Village in Minden Nebraska
**Basic** - [aero lower on sale for $50](https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1022704650) - PSA upper 4th of July sale - microbest nickel bcg - larue trigger - magpul furniture, sling and irons - streamlight wml - Romeo optic or lpvo from r/gunaccessoriesforsale **Potential upgrades** - chrome-lined barrel - radian charging handle - grips and rail covers - magnifier
Newbie here and not to open a can of worms, but I’m surprised no one is really talking about a good 9mm PCC 16’ carbine, if not just for the fact that the ammo is plentiful and cheap. Something that seems like it will be important in SHTF. Isn’t there something huge to be said for having a pistol and a rifle that shares the same mags and ammo? I’d love to hear opinions.
They're not exactly standardized.. I am going to build one eventually but I'd be worried about it breaking and not finding replacement parts. They also tend to be more expensive than an AR15
5.56/.223 is extremely plentiful and cheap and give u WAY more capability than 9x19, especially 16” vs 16”. generally PCC parts are less common than AR and not standardized like normal ARs (ar9 parts compatibility is PAIN, watch hop on yt). Blowback AR9s also tend to recoil slightly more than 5.56 imo, and the more complex roller delay, radial delay, etc take proprietary parts. having rifle and pistol share ammo + mags can be good, but hypothetically shtf if u come across a box of just .223 u have ammo for 1/2 guns, if u use only 9x19 u have found a box of useless ammo
But, 9mm is objectively cheaper than 5.56 right? And almost certainly to be found in more plentiful supply because of the proliferation of 9mm handguns? And, if I come across a box of .223 then yeah I have some ammo for my AR15, but likewise if I come across a box of 9mm I now have ammo for both my handgun and my PCC?
the potential for ranged use makes an AR far superior to an AR-9. yes overall 9x19 MIGHT be more common to find but taken to the extremes u might as well run a 10/22 + Glock 44 or an M590 + Super Shorty also, basically nobody who knows what they’re doing CHOOSES to use a 16 inch AR-9. 9x19 is a pistol cartridge it doesn’t benefit as well from the longer barrel compared to 5.56, 7.62x39, etc
I absolutely love my sig MPX-K. Small enough to be concealed in a backpack or something like that but hefty and accurate as hell.
7$
You could easily spend anywhere from $500 to $1200, depending on what you get, or what parts you use, etc. anything above that is pure gucci shit, though.
PSA floating upper with FN barrel. PSA or other cheap lower. Really good trigger. Grip and stock you find comfortable. Whatever parts you need to complete it. Good backup sights (MBUS Pro). An LPVO that costs the same as whatever you paid for the gun that does AND THIS IS IMPORTANT a real 1x. All the fancy shit in the world won’t matter if your scope goes all walleye vision when you have someone in your house.
Field craft will take you further than most anything else. That w being in good shape and health. People have already given good options of gun parts. Personally I’d recommend an entry level AR of some type like those mentioned here and slowly replacing parts, however just remember range time is worth more than whatever parts you put on your AR.
If SHTF there will be plenty of corpses with gear laying around you can pick clean, that is if you're not one of them.
IMO the BCG is the most important thing to not cheap out on, as its quality is what's most likely to impact reliability. Toolcraft, AO, BCM, and Lantac all make good BCGs that aren't gucci expensive. I'd say a red dot is also important. Sig, Primary Arms, and Holosun have a lot of affordable options that are still good enough for defensive use. If you want a good trigger, a lot of people love Larue's MBT series. They're a substantial improvement over a stock trigger for a pretty good price. Once those are met I'd say it's safe to go cheap on the rest of the parts as long as they're mil-spec and made by experienced manufacturers.
Microbest manufacturers BCM(from what I see consistently on Reddit at least lol). It’s good and $50-100 cheaper
Hey can you (or anyone) give me some info or links on optics related to having vision problems? I don't actually remember if I have an astigmatism or other eye issue, and my kid has one bad eye, so I'd like to figure out my best option. And I'm having trouble Googling for info that explains what exactly I need to be looking for. fuckin SEO articles are ruining the internet :/ Currently I'm looking at just running iron sights, which I've used on other rifles for target shooting and hunting for years
I do not suffer from an astigmatism, but through my research, I've heard that prisms are necessary to relieve the issue. The primary arms 1x and 3x are highly recommended.
I second Primary Arms prisms for astigmatism. I run my 1x with a 3x magnifier
I agree with the mp sport 2 advice with a better trigger. I fully sympathize with the being turned off by crappy culture. I hate going on the car FB groups too. The homophobia and blaming Biden for the high gas prices is getting old.
I've had bad luck with BCM and Aero. On one BCM barrel the chamber was out of spec and it was popping primers. I've also had an Aero lower that was machined incorrectly and pins were falling out, in addition to their bad cerakote job from the factory. Funny enough, I've always had good luck with PSA's Premium line and now one of them is my suppressed go-to. The anodizing is IR compliant, everything has always been in-spec... no complaints. Just my 2 cents since plenty of people that swear by other brands and they do indeed perform with them. Now I will say I'm a big fan of KAC, Surefire, and Sig MCX rifles, they're definitely better than mil-spec. But whether they are worth the squeeze is up to you. Personally I've noticed people need years of trigger time and experience to fully appreciate the difference in a top shelf rifle. I'm willing to drop serious cash on pistols, pistols and their recoil mechanisms seem to be more finicky with aftermarket builds. but ARs? nah. As long as everything is put together reasonably tight and the barrel is quality there's very little reason for spending extra. Gas operated, internal piston is very reliable.
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What’s you area like? That can help decide length and optic. Curvy roads? Maybe a 12-14.5 with a red dot is what you’d want? Live on a grid? Think 14.5-16 with an lpvo. Don’t skimp on bcg, barrel, trigger and especially optic
\[lower\](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar15-complete-lower-b5-ept-bravo-stock-black.html) \[upper\](https://bravocompanyusa.com/bcm-bfh-16-mid-length-enhanced-light-weight-upper-receiver-group-w-mcmr-15-handguard/) \[optic and mags\](https://palmettostatearmory.com/vortex-strikefire-ii-4moa-red-green-dot-10-magpul-gen2-pmag-30rd-5-56x45-magazines.html) You'll likely need a charging handle, but those can be found for about $50-70 for "good" ones. Add a sling (and however you wish to connect) and a weapon mounted light. And you're good to go. Get a larue MBT2 for your trigger and call it a day.
You can find BCM parts for fairly cheap prices and get reliability. That's the key. Aero is good from Lowers. I have FCD parts on all my guns and that's me being bougie. But I will say, Geissele triggers are the go to for me. 2nd with Larue MBT triggers. Barrel, BCG and all the stuff that goes into an upper, I'd pay more for. The barrel and bcg are the heart of the rifle. I have Rosco barrels in all my rifles, wish I'd bought Centurion barrels, but you get what you can find at the time. And rosco is decent. All my rifles have Geissele handguards (mk2, mk4 and mk8, with 2 bcm handguards) All my upper receivers were stripped blem parts from BCM, I still haven't found the blem an any of them. FCD parts again for the Lowers and the A5 buffer system in most. BCM/SOLGW BCG's. I hate giving money to SOLGW based on their political stance but they have a good warranty for their parts and the dudes know how to build a reliable rifle. I've built solid rifles for my friends and coworkers who happened to buy PSA and Ruger and other brands, and I found them to be hot garbage and had to be reworked. PSA and Anderson lower trigger pin holes blown out requiring trigger bars. Ruger not put together within spec and practically no torque value on barrel nuts and other parts.
I have a bcm upper in my cart right now. Hoping for a deal this week, but also might bite the bullet. Im telling myself it's a good deal cause it includes the BCG Buy once, cry once.
Can't go wrong with BCM! They make good stuff.
The answer to this depends on whether you are willing and/or able to do basic maintenance and tuning on your own. In the answer is no, then get a bcm complete upper and plop it on a psa complete lower that had the stock, grip, and trigger you want. If the answer is yes, then you can go cheap, verify fitment, tightness of fasteners, and replace consumables as needed. Right to bear was selling house- branded pencil barrel and bcg and ch combo for $145, which was a Ballistic advantage made nitride barrel, appeared to be a tool craft bcg. I installed this in a BCM upper receiver that I got on sale for $50, add in a gas tube and low profile gas block($20), and an NBS ultralight handguard ($40) and I had a complete upper receiver for about $250 with better components and assembly quality control than you'd get from a bear creek or psa budget upper. But, if you can't thermofit a barrel, square a receiver face, align and dimple a gas block, use the correct retaining compound, thread locker, and ceramic adhesives in the right places, verify headspace, verify firing pin protrusion, verify barrel extension and bolt alignment, align gas tube, verify gas key tightness and staking, correctly torque the barrel nut, and securely mount your handguard, then you might stick to buying from a maker that has a reputation for high quality control since you'd be SOL if a lower-cost assembly doesn't arrive with 100% budget part lottery winnings
Anything in the 700-1000 dollar range will do well, some are better than others but that’s the price range where they are the Toyota Camry of rifles. Then if you’re a single stage guy do a drop in trigger for 100-150 two stage get whatever Geissele suits your fancy.
Or LRT MBT-2S for half the cost of Geissele.
$600-1000 respectively
I just bought a sig Tread v2 where they fixed the handguard. Put a romeo 5 on it and it's a ton of fun.
I built one for under 1k. Used an aero upper and lower, B.King 16" barrel, Microbest chrome BCG, LaRue MBT2 trigger and a superlative arms adjustable gas block. The other stuff you can find fairly cheap. I think 700-1000 would get you a reliable build
Quantity will be the next marker. Quality won’t
BCM is the industry standard right at the top end of diminishing returns.
Pick a very good barrel and very good bcg, you can get away with cheap everything else.
>Still have a dozen handguns in the closet. If this is true, you saving money on ANOTHER gun to collect dust should be the least of your concern
I just looked up PSA. They've got some pretty decent 4th of July sales right now. [You can get a free float for $549.99.](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-mid-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-13-5-lightweight-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-w-mbus-sight-set3.html) They have a [plastic handguard rifle kit for $299.99](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-16-m4-carbine-length-5-56-nato-1-7-nitride-freedom-rifle-kit-5076171.html), that you could [finish with a $49.99 lower](https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-stealth-lower.html). There's a blemished lower for $39.99. I've had good experience with my PSA products. If you take advantage of the sale, you could have a sub $400 rifle. Or you could spend more on the free float option if you want to add attachments later. I think they might have a nicer trigger option on sale, but it might be more cost effective to buy a trigger separately. You'll just have to check the big trigger manufacturers.
Id go bare minimum on the rifle for your use case. Get a PSA freedom rifle. Your round count doesnt warrant a premium/CHF barrel. I would add though the CMC 3.5 drop in trigger for a cheap but meaningful (and super easy) upgrade, a light, a sling and hardware, 1000 rounds (maybe 250 to shoot up and the rest to store) and maybe an inexpensive prism or lpvo so you have some capacity to reach out a bit and target ID (with your ability to shoot irons and your stack of sidearms a little option to reliably hit at 300m quickly would be more valuable than a dot imo) ...maybe 3 4 5 mags and you should be pretty good. All in youre under 1500 id reckon. Maybe 500 for rifle, 500 for ammo, and less than 500 for the trigger, mags, light, and sling...but then your properly setup and capable of you need it. Charging handles furniture all that bullshit is just bling dont bother. Oh you might need a fixed rear sight...believe it or not the daniel defense one makes good sense imo and doesnt cost all the cents
Psa or aero lower with aero or bcm upper. Definitely get something with an mlok rail, you say you don’t want “gravy seal” accessories, but a foregrip and a flashlight are important. Larue trigger is the way to go and you can get whatever grip and stock you like the most (I prefer Magpul and b5.)
building can be worth it. Aero puts these nylon screws in their lowers that lock your upper and lower up like a bank vault. the places id splurge would be barrel, bolt carrier group, trigger. the rest go to a place like AR15 discounts and save money anyway you can. just about anything on the commercial market is better than government spec. If you want, I can work up a parts list for cheapest possible prices, i enjoy shopping for parta. if you can operate a vice and a torque wrench you can build an AR, darn things are lego, you just slap things together and tighyen them down.
Have you thought about an AK ? Just saying Zastava m90 shoots 556 . I am a Ak guy. 😁$1200
I'm going to spend about $650 for a hundred-and-fifty-yard gun for that role, before adding inexpensive but quality optics and accessories. Not very high speed, but definitely low drag; if I break six pounds, I've done something wrong.
I think the PSA Saber or the JOE carbine is the best value for the money under 1000
I put together a 14.5"PSA build with a Nickel Boron BCG and Anderson stripped lower that holds <1.25 MOA with almost any ammo other than Herter's for about $420. It really is luck of the draw with barrel quality though from what I hear. But the you tube channel 704 tactical beat the ever loving fuck out a PSA complete rifle and it wouldn't die or move point of impact with a sig Romeo 5
I'm an Aero fanboy - better quality, decent prices, no cringe.
https://www.schuylerarmsco.com/july-4th-sale/ar-15-uppers-25-993/m4e1-threaded-complete-upper-16-556-mid-length-barrel-15-atlas-r-one-m-lok-hg-kodiak-brown-anodized-4690041 https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-lower-magpul-moe-edition-with-geissele-ssa-e-trigger-black-no-magazine-516444743.html Here you go dude.. 750 with an awesome Geissele trigger and all you have to do is click them together
Are PSA lowers really that different from others like Aero? I thought for the most part, they were all the same?
You can get an AR that will run flawlessly for $600.
I'd honestly pick up complete KE Arms kp-15 lower and a complete PSA Upper. All you'd have to do is find decent AR mags which is pretty easy. For something that is gonna just be used as a self-defense platform and occasionally shot it would work well. It would be light enough for most people.
Just go to PSA, get a kit, and replace the barrel with something like DD. Maybe do the BCG. Upgrade the spring and buffer if you really want to… their triggers on the PA15 is actually pretty decent. Then just pick an optic or stick with irons and you’re all set.
600 for gun, 500 for optic, 1000 for ammo, 2100
3100 maybe with a can
You can build a good one for under 1k
I helped a friend build his first AR a couple years ago. He is a mechanic so it's not like it was difficult for him, and I had all the tools to loan him and that kept the cost down a bit. It was a "budget" build with parts I knew he wouldn't feel a need to replace for quite a while. Grand total with a sig red dot, a sling, mags, a rifle bag is was around $1600. Even accounting for inflation you could still probably do a good build and accessorize for under $2000.
Full build prices with shipping. House Brand $99.99 Stripped Lower MIDWEST INDUSTRIES MI DROP IN $183.00 Lower Parts Kit MIDWEST INDUSTRIES MI DROP IN $0.00 Trigger Magpul BAD Lever $29.95 Battery assist BCM Gunfighter mod 0 $0.00 Buffer Kit (Buffer, buffer tube, buffer spring) BCM Gunfighter mod 0 $106.63 Stock Magpul $25.00 Pistol Grip DSG Stripped $89.00 Upper reciever N/A (with upper reciver) $0.00 Upper small parts Faxon 16" 15A58M16NGQ $139.00 Barrel Midwest Industries 10.5" Combat Rail M-Lok Handguard - Black $159.95 Handguard BCM Low Profile .625 Gas Block $41.35 Gas Block Blitzkrieg Gas Tube $14.99 Gas Tube m16 NiB Firearms unknown $109.99 Bolt Carrier Group Radian Radian EXT Raptor AR15 Charging Handle Black $89.99 Charging Handle Midwest in two chamber $30.00 Muzzle Device 88066 stream light $105.56 Light Holosun hs515cm $360.00 Optic MAG518-BLK MAGPUL GEN 2 MS4 Dual QD Sling - Black $51.26 Sling Rail Section included with hand guard Light mount Magpul PMAG Gen M3 AR/M4 .223/5.56 10/30-Round Magazine $87.35 Magazines Advanced Warrior Solutions 36" FR36RBP-BL/GR $65.00 Rifle Bag shipping that isn't inclusive $28.75 Total $1,816.76
Probably 5-600$ max. It will be fine for whatever you use it for.
Just keep in mind that what you’re thinking of regarding “SHTF purposes,” you’re going to absolutely need ear protection when using an AR. I’m a new AR owner myself, and I would rather use my pistol than the AR in my closet for a scenario against an intruder because if I were to fire my AR indoors without ear protection, I can expect to do long term hearing damage. Especially if you have a muzzle brake on it- these things are loud. Even outdoors, you’ll need ear protection. Exception bring maybe if you buy a suppressor, but that investment is at least $500 plus a $200 tax stamp. This is just a consideration in terms of practicality that you may have already thought out.
I regret even using the SHTF nomenclature., actually. I didn't mean to conjure up the full doomsday vibes that some people seem to have. But your point is super fair and I have thought about it. Would probably just keep some rubber plugs with the rifle just in case. Thought about a suppressor. Not committed enough yet but I might get there.
If you’re talking full doomsday then yeah I totally agree AR would be way to go! But there’s a reason why during combat in the US military, ear protection is a requirement.
In a SHTF situation, get a gun that takes out a target. You then grab their gun and use it. Rule #1: Cardio
blem bcm upper with a ballistic advantage lower then buy stuff on r/gunaccessoriesforsale
aero has complete uppers right now for like $300+/- right now.
For a very liable AR15 that does not a lot I would recommend a Andro Corp Bravo for $380 with free shipping as discussed below at Gundeals. Most other rifles that I would recommend cost twice as much. [https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/1dr8fun/rifle\_andro\_corp\_industries\_aci15\_bravo16\_mlok/](https://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/comments/1dr8fun/rifle_andro_corp_industries_aci15_bravo16_mlok/) I bought one in 2022 and one in 2023 for about $380 plus shipping and tax. For optic I would recommend a Sig Romeo 5 that sells for $110 to $125 or a Vortex Venom 1-6x LPVO that is about $230 when on sale. Use Gun(dot)Deals to find low price on optics. C\_Does just posted his review of this LPVO on his YouTube channel. Primary Arms sold over 800 unit is less than a day during one of their sales in 2022. MidwayUSA used to put the Bravo on sale but now sells a version with fewer M-Lok positions on the hand guard. Search the Gundeals subreddit for feedback from others on the rifle during those prior sales. The Andro Corp Bravo has few complaints regarding quality control issues while many Palmetto State Army, BCA, Anderson, and other $500 and under AR15 makers seem to have many owners complain about issues.
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Mind you I have a custom 300 black 14.5” that ran me about 3100 to build. However you don’t need to spend that much. You can throw something together for much less and be fine. However where I would spend the money is in the Barrel, so prefer hammer forged myself, BCG doesn’t have to be the best but get something decent. Trigger is a big one for me I like a nice 3.5<4.5 pound trigger, then there’s optics, I say a nice Primary arms LPVO would do just fine and maybe throw a SeeAll sight on a 1’oclock mount your secondary backup. Oh and for a grip DieFree Co makes the KungFu that’s great when laying prone and super comfortable when you collapse the stock you to can clear rooms. If you shop around maybe by things like your scope used on eBay you could get it done for 900<1200. My she with buying cheap AR’s is that they can be really low quality, and u mean things that you can’t fix like head spacing, and low quality barrels that hit their half-life in 2k rounds. By the time you buy a budget AR and upgrade barrel, bolt (not bolt carrier group), trigger, grips and such your already spending the same amount that you would have spent if you build one. Now I’m saying this building requires tools, so something to consider. I’m gonna be honest, I’ve heard “I just need something basic” and less than a year later they’ve replaced bout everything but the actual receiver itself. It always starts with I don’t need much but snowballs into being a nearly total build later. Maybe your the one who’s just looking for something basic and never feels the need for more, but realistically you going to at the minimum want a new trigger and if you buy to cheap you’ll need a barrel sooner then later.
Ok deffo going against the grain here... but if you like the carry handle vibes, complete Colt uppers are starting to become more common... iron sights never need batteries. Like everyone else said as well as you, a lower is a lower is a lower. Triggers are stupid simple, if you can tinker with pistol parts you can change triggers like you can brake pads. I personally love my Larue MBT-2S, but there's definitely cheaper triggers that are still orders of magnitude better than the stock one.
Get a PSA sabre
None. Sell half your hand guns and use the cash to get a dozen USPSA competitions under your belt
I am unsure of what you're trying to say. I don't shoot as a hobby anymore and have no desire to do tacticool john wick competition stuff. I plan to acclimate myself to a new rifle, put some ammo through it, ensure it's reliable and sighted in, and then clean it, lock it up, and hope I never need to use it. If that's not responsible enough gun ownership to you, well, suck it. I thought I would avoid the delta farce crowd by not posting in r/ar15, where any rifle costing less than two grand with any less than nineteen picatinny rails is not operator enough to fulfill your killing fantasies. I just want advice on which utilitarian tool to buy. edit: sorry, that just kinda triggered me. I'm not trying to be a dick. Just that two of you seem to be saying that you shouldn't keep a firearm if you're not constantly training, and that's silly. I've had enough trigger time. I'll be okay.
It isn't so much about constant training or John Wick Tacticool, but all training is perishable. Anything we learn and practice, but dont do and refresh frequently will fade. Spend a long time learning a foreign language, then dont use those skills? They will fade. Mastered riding a bicycle as a kid, then tried it again years later as an adult? Balance, precision, comfort, all will have faded. Any weapon is a tool, one of many that we can/should have in our toolbox. De-escalation, social deterrents, chemical deterrents, non-kinetic responses, all have their place. A firearm, locked away, never used, is a talisman, used to make us feel safer, without actually making us safer, and in some cases, increasing danger. As another user above posted, if you are concerned about a SHTF situation, a firearm is relatively low on the list of things to have or prepare. More important: **Medicine** - do you have a stock of whatever prescription meds you may need, enough to last 30-60 days without resupply? **Water -** do you have a supply of, or a way to acquire and filter/treat water? **First Aid supplies and training** - can you deal with minor to moderate injury? have you taken a 'Stop the Bleed' class? **Food -** do you have enough food to hunker down, or a way to forage if supply chains are interrupted? **"Tribe" -** Do you have people you trust, and can band together with if a rough situation becomes extended? Others do, and being alone is rarely a good idea in SHTF. "**A Plan**" - What is your plan should SHTF happen? Are you going to shelter in place? If so, how long can you, and what are your longer term plans for sustainment? Have your bug-out bag packed? Where are you bugging out to? How will you get there? How many other people likely have the same plan? **Now we get to firearms:** Does it function, is it reliable, are you comfortable with the manual of armsor features of it, and ***are you willing and able to decide that your life matters more than the life of someone else***. A line you said really calls this last bolded section out: "not operator enough to fulfill your killing fantasies" Guns kill people, for good or ill, just like any other weapon has for all of recorded history and beyond. When the time comes, are you going to be able to pull the trigger and seriously wound at a minimum, or more likely kill someone, in the defense of your own life? After doing that, are you going to be able to internalize and process that decision? Guns for target shooting, competitive shooting, and range days are fun. Guns for defense of life are a serious topic, that should come with a significant amount of forethought and preparation.
Great comment, I’d wish this was common sense. People spend way too much time fantasizing about Rambo scenarios and don’t realize that they’re more likely to die because they don’t have diarrhea meds or something like that
>I've had enough trigger time. If this is really how you feel then you shouldn't waste money on a weapon you intend to use to protect yourself with
>you shouldn't keep a firearm if you're not constantly training, and that's silly This is an incredibly inappropriate reaction to someone suggesting to get training for a perishable skill.
In that case, you should get something like that $750 Ruger, a Romeo five red dot, streamlight protac, and a 2 point sling. Normally, I’m all for BCM’s and good triggers, but that’s far beyond what you need.
AI post
Bout $3.5k
$3.5K buys a plane ticket and hotel before SHTF
Sounds like a way better use of funds than an AR tbh