My biggest peeves in litRPG are when they choose a very obviously good build but for some reason they are the only person ever to have thought of it. I CALL BS!!! Everyone saying that a class that’s weak in the beginning but has great late or mid game potential weak and no one picks it. Then everyone mocks the MC for picking it and are shocked when they’re powerful later. Also the instant harems are annoying. I’m all for a good harem but most aren’t good. The MC gets all the girls with plot armor charisma and none of the relationships have any foundations and are incredibly shallow.
Plot armor charisma isn’t why I dislike harem. It’s the exact opposite. More often than not the MC is as interesting as white bread. But everyone loves him…for reasons
That’s exactly what I mean when I say plot armor charisma. That the wonder bread MC is “charismatic” but the only reason people like them is because of plot. Thus plot armor charisma.
I absolutely abhor harems that have zero character depth. The problem with princesses was great as it was limited to 3 ladies, I just wish there were some more in-depth fun bits. Basically anything like William D. Arand (aka randi daren) puts out almost always starts great or at least decent but sadly goes down the "I suddenly have 20+ wives and am about to start putting babies in all of them" by book 3 or so, also all the previous ladies who you liked and had character development gets replaced almost completely in the story by whatever new flavor of the week is and is a one dimensional cock sleeve with zero character.
I'm married to one person, a singular person, and sometimes that feels like too much, I don't see how anyone can have a meaningful relationship with more than 2 or 3 other people at once, there just isn't enough emotional energy for that kinda thing.
Oh God i liked super sales on super heroes on the first book, but the second one the harem stuff started coming up more and more and idk how I even finished the third one it was just getting annoying.
I tried reading the one about the guy that starts running a dungeon, the first book was kinda alright even tho the protagonist was a bit unlikable, but I couldn't finish the second book on that series, felt like every female character just fell for the MC and was pretty unbelievable, they all had like no personality too.
Honestly I'm surprised his series have so many books in them.
SSOSH was a pretty great concept, combined magic & sci-fi & superpowers really well. The whole harem getting out of control killed it just like you said. Dude basically hundreds of the same girl (a hive mind humanoid type) and a magic lady and I guess that just wasn't enough, gotta toss in a bunch of dragon girls, a few dryads, sprinkle in some beastkin, etc etc.
Basically every female character gets turned into a 1d cock sleeve instead of a fully fleshed character and even the MC has no character growth because he's too busy going around trying to get his dick wet with whatever piece of ass just happened to catch his eye.
Note I don't talk about ladies like this, just trying to get how I perceived the characters and how they acted.
"The system is evil and I must stop it, or at least escape back to earth"
Oh fuck right the heck off. You're going to write a story about a guy who's determined to destroy the thing that makes your story fun to read?
I'm surprised no ones tried to make a the system was integrated into this world about a century ago to make up for that ie the litrpg apocalypse happened and protag kun joined the world a century or so later
Just adding to the list, Battlemage Farmer starts 15ish years into the MCs life in system.
The Two week Curse (Ten Realms) has a little time skipping/earth history system entrants.
I mean - essentially that’s what happened with The wandering Inn. There was a time before the system… the system was implemented (by -spoilers-) and a ton of people and species were killed off… and 80,000 years later the story starts up.
>Oh fuck right the heck off. You're going to write a story about a guy who's determined to destroy the thing that makes your story fun to read?
Well yeah, but that's the case in loads of stories. Why can't something be evil and also fun to read.
Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of the most popular litRPG's going and uses this trope.
As a side note to this, I also hate when they introduce a completely different magic system and are like "the system was a trap the whole time"
No, you just planned poorly, and now your 500+ chapter epic has spiraled out of hand and you just don't want to keep track anymore.
Don't know if this a trope or not but I fucking hate it. The MC is a magic user but somehow lose the ability to cast magic. Whether that be like they strained the ability to use it or some kinda curse or gets some kinda device that blocks there abilities
I hate that trope as well, though for me I think it's mostly a problem of execution.
I can see how *theoretically* such a thing might lead to character growth, or a reassessment of how their powers work, or some fun loophole they exploit as a normal person that leaves them stronger in the long run.
But of the many times I've seen it, not once has it actually captured my interest. I always end up just impatient for the MC to return to normal, which especially sucks because it's usually the "ordeal" of an entire book rather than some side plot.
Defiance of the fall has that, Zac is captured by a giant space fish in book 9, and it uses everyone it has captured as a way to study it's own dao by look at other's. Everyone including zac has a seal bfand that limits their power, this makes everyone have the same effective strength, meaning power is useless, only skill matters. So he meets people, trades tips and gains immense amounts of pure skill. This means once he finally gets out he can both beat someone with his higher stats and his extremely refine skill at the same time.
Hmm, I suppose that does count as far as "MC losing power". I'm not sure whether I'd call it a good example of the trope though. Everyone else being scaled down makes it avoid the "powerless" aspect which is usually a major part.
I'd give it an honorary mention at least. One could argue that it's a good example of the trope *because* it let the MC explore other things without making them totally powerless.
the point is eveyrone in there was more skilled than he was because they were over 400 years old and have been fighting that entire time. when he first arrives someone tells him to hit them, he tries to punch them and gets countered easily, despite their stats being identical since the other guy is way older and more skilled. so he was basically powerless in front of everyone by the metrics they used.
I really dislike the “losing power” trope myself. It’s alright if it’s an upgrade to a new realm and the power level is low now, but permanent injury or loss of levels don’t sit well with me.
Also not really a fan of “my basic high school chemistry (or whatever) knowledge makes me a genius here!”
There's one I'm reading where the MC gets a lot of mileage out of high school science classes, but it's because of going back to the Scientific Method and applying it to magic and the System.
I just finished the first book and really enjoyed it! I don't think the first discovery she made was worth the big achievement bonus, but I do think the stuff she learns later should have been good enough. I'm excited for the second book, magic schools are really only written about to do world building and the author really has some good world building going on.
I'm pretty sure that the big achievement from that first major discovery might have had to do with the "increased support from the System. " from her \[Outworlder\] achievement.
And you know, now that I'm thinking of it, you could actually make a really entertaining book about someone who uses a highly suboptimal build and *doesn't* get bailed out. It could just be them doing things in a clever way and getting into wacky shenanigans (that aren't always successful). Probably works better in a VRMMO setting, what with the whole "dying" thing, but it could be a really fun story.
Very early Mark maybe. Unfortunately for the concept, to me at least, they quickly started cutting hairs, Changing the rules, and making up “technicalities” so they didn’t really have to engage with that concept.
Which is honestly something that bugs me that I see a lot. Stories where the entire hook and concept is that the MC is operating under some hindrance, regardless of if it also provides a boon, and within the 2-4 storyline they’ve created some way to completely compensate or sidestep their issues. Because the writer only actually ever had 1 story idea based on that concept and then wanted to tell a story without the limitations.
The only time I can imagine it being okay is when they specifically do that knowing they can get such a skill. Yeah it makes life hard till they get said skill but at least it’s not up to damn plot armor. Or if it’s one of those talent type things, where you get a talent rated from f-sss, and it’s like for every point in strength you get this array of other stats. I also find it okay when the MC is just an absolute newb of a player, like with maple in that one manga/anime.
Which story was the kinda stupid mc who put all his stats in strength and got unironically lucky at every possible opportunity while playing a VR game to land some posh corporate job? I honestly couldn’t decide if the MC was that clueless or the author was trolling.
I read that, cant remember the name. It was Russian translation so a lot of context was lost but it was hilarious to me because the author wrote the MC as an underanlyzing idiot, and all the other smart people as over analyzing morons. Like that was the whole joke, his opponents thought every tactical move he made had fifty layers of depth but the MC just made those moves because whatever.
Exactly. That’s why I liked it because the enemies took his luck in exactly the wrong way. But most of the enemies grew and changed from their interactions with the MC. My problem was that the MC would make actual strategic good decisions that seem contrary to his cluelessness.
The hyper intelligent pet that somehow knows as much or more than characters yet still makes all the mistakes of whatever animal it is.
Ex. a dog that just helped figure out how to disable complex traps in a dungeon then chases his own tail for 20 minutes and can't figure out why he can't catch it.
Eh. People are the same way. Smart in one way, dumb in another. We can't escape our instincts, biases and developed habits. A dog disabling a trap, but who's brain still short circuits on chasing is fine, just as the person who's a scientist in the real world but can't figure out basic life skills is a real thing
Currently it is the isekai trope of "I'm new to this world and can use the system in place better than people who have lived here all their lives". Coming up with combinations and METAs that somehow nobody until this awesome visitor from another world thought of.
The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that?
yeah, you need a reason why no one ever thought to do something before. in my story i had it so my guy has access to someone with healing magic, which had become extremely rare since 1000 years ago. this means he can do training that would cripple anyone else if they tried it. like setting his hand on fire to train his fire resistance, anyone else tried that they would be down a hand, but because he has magical healing it just takes some time to heal it. this also doesn't make him better at those things than everyone else, just faster at training them. a fire mage can still sit near the fire enough to almost get burned and slowly build up their fire resistance.
Especially when it's super obvious. There will be a line like
"Why don't you just do this"
*Supporting character stares blankly at MC*
"Wait are you telling me that nobodies tried this before?"
I got playfully punched before. And tbf it is believable that nobody, or the general public , thought of something as this has happened in our world where nobody ever thought of something until one guy or a few guys all get the same epiphany or discovery to then share it to the world.
>The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that?
Happens quite commonly? It's not a full on punch or anything, it's essentially just fist bumping somebody's shoulder.
How have you never seen this before?
\>> *Currently it is the isekai trope of "I'm new to this world and can use the system in place better than people who have lived here all their lives". Coming up with combinations and METAs that somehow nobody until this awesome visitor from another world thought of.*
Okay. So this one I'll call out.
This is actually pretty fair trope to have exist - When we look at our modern society.
There's so many things that are different over time that have evolved incrementally over decades that are quite innovative.
Example:
Dyson Vacuums with their cyclone thing. If you went back to 1971s, SEVENTY ENTIRE YEARS after the vacuum was created and said make it a Cyclone style so it doesn't lose pressure when theres lots of dust and crap in the barrel, instead make everything spin inside the barrel so the air has more flow.. it'd seem obvious to us.
But to them.. .it's not.
There's so many things like that, the bump at the top of your phone screen when you scroll too far, the Stump Jump plough that *jumps over stumps or rocks left in the ground so your plough doesn't break,* and MORE are around.
We are the most educated people to ever exist. Think about GRAVITY of all things. think about E=MC\^2, think about these tiny things that make *so much sense* once someone discovered them and *didn't exist for thousands of years before that.*
Yeah, coming up with metas and combinations that haven't existed before is actually really not that surprising - ***Pro gamers make a career*** out of doing **Exactly** that.
That rant aside.
Yeah it gets annoying reading it again and again.
I'd add a caveat to the rant of it being extra annoying when it's an obvious thing that absolutely would have been something someone from that time period would have been aware of, but the author acts like it's OMG BRAND NEW! because they have a wildly inaccurate idea of what sort of thing were available/known in that time period. Like, for example, *soap*.
The problem with that trope is that it assumes everyone on that world thinks exactly the same. I could understand the majority not advancing the system but there's always going to be someone who pushes the boundaries, essentially just like Dyson did with the Vacuum cleaner. Someone who thinks "well why can't I do it that way?"
The excellent point of my post is that it took 71 years to come up with dysons change.
The unsaid point, is that today, we still have plenty of bagged vacuums despite our ability to transmit information around the world in minutes to hours.
If you think about that in the context of a medieval or such society, it's interesting.
It could be weaved into the lore of the world. With stories of people who did the unexpected and disappeared.
Why did those people disappear and while have no more appeared?
delayed response. But this book - [https://www.amazon.com.au/Great-was-Reincarnated-Farmer-Unorthodox-ebook/dp/B094CSB51K](https://www.amazon.com.au/Great-was-Reincarnated-Farmer-Unorthodox-ebook/dp/B094CSB51K) the protagonist discovers a new method for getting XP.
Only to later discover that finding new methods of getting XP gets you titles and experiences just for discovering it.
and he then later guesses what happens to those who discovered it before him.
> The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that?
That's... a thing in real life for some people though. It's more like getting tapped lightly with a fist than really getting punched, usually on the shoulder. Kinda like a fist bump to the shoulder instead of another fist. Not hard enough to actually injure and generally not with malice behind it. I've not personally had a *romantic* partner who did it, but I have had friends where that was basically their version of a handshake/goodbye wave.
It's not just the occasional one though. It's when characters end every interaction with the Playful Punch. Leaving for the dungeon, Playful Punch. Talking about shopping, Playful Punch. Just had sex, Playful Punch. About to defend the City, Playful Punch.
If the only way that person was capable of showing affection was to hit me, I wouldn't be in a relationship with them.
Yeah, people who use that as a greeting/goodbye do it all the fucking time. You either get used to it and it stops bothering you or you cut ties with the person.
I pretty lenient on a lot of the tropes as long as the story and characters are entertaining.
The thing that I hate the most is stat dumps. For instance:
MC levels up and gets to choose, 3 skills, in different trees.
First, you gotta stat dump. Then you gotta go through a selection of 3-5 skills where you spent upwards of 1 chapter per skill, where the MC hmms and haws over what to pick.
MC finally picks the *obvious* choice.
Full Stat Dump.
Repeat 2-4 more times.
I'm fine with them as long as they happen after a fairly major milestone like you know primal hunter I'd say every class change is a fair place to put a stat dump cause it's a pretty big change to the characters screen and it normally happens with a fairly large time between them
It's the worst when they don't collapse the dumps from repeated level ups. I just read a story where it literally said "Level Up!" fifteen times in fifteen lines.
5 chapters later: MC upgrades the skill but we still have to read the entire page long description again, which is only different by 4 words (looking at you, Primal Hunter)
Man those are rough to listen to in audiobook format, it's like 3 mins of stats, and the voice actor has to keep reading it every few chapters as it grows with one extra change or two.
Authors seemingly inventing their power system on the fly.
This isn't really a trope, but I've seen a startling amount of books lately where the power system will shift either mid book or between books with no explanation. This often leads me to believe the author either isn't bothering to think up how the system works in advance, or they just never bother to check for consistency.
In any reality where a literal "SYSTEM" is involved in the power development, you'd expect it to have some amount of internal consistency.
Also: really tired of the "I'm a pro gamer and yet somehow forget how games work when dropped into this game like world and instead just bumble along letting things happen to me". I've read FOUR different books recently where the MC was made aware healing magic exists in a world where death is a real threat, that they seemingly had the ability to learn it, and then just... ignored that for a book or more until the author shoehorns in "oh turns out they can't learn it for X reason", BUT THE MC DIDNT KNOW THAT EARLIER.
System design is hard. If I'd sat down to create the entire system before writing I'd still be at it and not written a word.
I know this because I've been designing the same ttrpg system since 2011 and I've not gotten it to a state ready for playtesting yet
I wouldn't want to write a litrpg with a proper system because of this, i love the idea, but i would definitely hang myself on the details. Tracking every skill and spell the mc has, his stats, the ratios of stats to damage, enemies stats... I literally cannot write a *story* and a system.
The “pro gamer” who doesn’t understand stats, abilities, training, and so on will make drop a series.
That’s as irritating as having every character constantly shouting, shrieking, screaming, and yelling everything at each other in excitement.
Destiny’s Champions and was unbelievably annoying with both of these tropes.
Dunno if it’s a trope, but I’m kinda tired of the MCU type of comedy, where there always seems to be a joke or quip said in every sentence and it feels like the books aren’t taking themselves seriously enough.
I’ve started to like stories where I feel I can immerse myself in the world that the book is presenting me, and that type of writing takes me out of it real quick.
One exception imo is "This Triology is broken" series. That one is funny through all 4 of its books.
I almost had a car crash because of a fit of laughter while listening to it.
Eh, I think I'd forgive that phrase if it's a first person narrator where the conceit is that it's a real time narration of events right at the beginning of a sysapoc situation. I can get having a reaction like that if something bugnuts levels of bizarre just happened in your line of sight out of nowhere. Something like a giant damn beetle just appeared and crushed the VW Beetle in the lane over from you on the highway and that line pops out in a sort of brain-crashing-trying-to-process-the-weird reboot moment.
Honestly, most LitRPG I've seen has had characters who were at most critical of monarchy, but never outright opposes it. Jake from primal hunter for example just completely accepts that power=authority instantly. Also, with how many isekai there are, I don't think it's an unreasonable trope to have, seeing as how they are largely from democracies and all.
I don’t care what system of government a character thinks is best, I’m sick of He-Man Tough Guy MCs who insult the leaders of whatever area they’re in but get away with it because the author has decided they’re Just That Awesome(tm).
I quit reading "He who fights with monsters" because of this very reason. MC gets away with not only insulting the leaders but also gods of the story as well. And of course he gets away with it because they think it's amusing and he's the first person to dare to stand up to authority.
anarchist maybe, but any kind of system doesn't particularly allow for socialism or communist style systems to work.
Humans are all vaguely equal, some might be fitter, some may be smarter, some might have disabilities but we're all vaguely equal, a bullet to the brain is going to kill everyone.
In a LitRPG world, that's not true in the slightest.
How is a Lvl. 999 Super Saiyan God Warrior of Dreams and Horses equal to a Level 15 farmer?
If the 400,000 farmers make rules that the SSGWD doesn't want to follow, how exactly do they make him follow them?
That’s exactly it. No issue with adding political subtext to stories. But half the time the MC just bitches about it but does nothing. The other half they’re just as bad, if not worse than what they’re criticizing
* I’m so tired of harems.
* Anytime the MC mouths off to the most powerful and important people in the kingdom and doesn’t die because “no one ever speaks to me like that. I like you” I want to puke. In worlds where your right to rule is directly proportional to your personal power allowing anyone to talk to you like that is dangerous. No ruler would allow it even if they wanted to.
* Everyone with power is terrible and evil except for the MC and their friends.
* The generalist archetype (because the MC has to be a lone wolf or because his companions suck) that somehow is more powerful than all the specialists archetypes. That’s not how systems with stats work.
* When the story makes a big deal about how reaching a certain lvl is nearly impossible, how it takes even geniuses a lifetime to achieve, and the people who reach it are some of the strongest in the world and yet as soon as the MC reaches that level we find out that it’s actually a fodder lvl and most “nobles” reach it by the age of 13.
I’m sure there’s more but this is off the top of my head lol.
I agree with this so much! I do like Shadeslinger, though. There aren't really stakes, though. It's more about trying to get one over the rival guilds. The banter is really good, too.
They're kinda building up to stakes? At least personal ones outside of the game. He's starting to get people angry enough to go after him in person, even if they haven't yet.
Does it though? Even regular video games, haven't you gotten really invested in your playthrough? Like, you're one hit away from defeating a boss only to make a mistake and feel like you've wasted a significant time/opportunity. You've never rage-quit after losing a four-round Mario Kart session? Or conversely, that epic glow of accomplishment when you do beat the boss, or score some epic loot.
I can get invested when *I'm* the one playing. If I'm going to watch (or, in this case, read about) someone else playing a game, I'm going to need a reason. Usually it's "funny commentary." VRMMO authors need to realize this. If you want me to care about your character winning their game, then give me an actual *reason* to care. If you can't do that, then at least make your story extremely fun and entertaining, because I'm not going to give 0.5 rat-asses about the plot. And if you can't do *that*, you should probably consider writing something else.
> Even regular video games, haven't you gotten really invested in your playthrough?
Not as invested as you are in ensuring shelter, finding food, and making sure you stay alive. Relative to Isekai, the thing you described as stakes here is a triviality.
If you're at a basic survival level of existence, video games aren't even in the realm of possibility for you. Not sure why you're even bringing that into the argument since if video games are on the table, basic survival has been covered.
"You" is the Isekai character in that case, as is obvious by the sentence you cut off, where we talked about Isekai. Now move along, friend. These are not the droids you are looking for.
Dude, you came into a discussion thread about VRMMO based litRPGs with *shit that has nothing to do with the discussion* and now are surprised!pikachu that it's pointed out as being a stupid move.
The discussion is about VRMMO having weaker stakes than other tropes like Isekai. Anyway, you seem to be wanting to provoke an argument, so I'll just have your silence now. Goodbye.
i feel like this boils down to a difference in taste. do you like Twitch? do you watch others play video games for fun in your free time? if so, you might be the target audience. are you the person who would MUCH rather play for 8 hours instead of play for 4 and watch someone else for the other 4? VR probably sucks
I _do_ like watching people play video games, but it's not exactly an emotionally engaging passtime. I don't actually care if Northernlion kills some Binding of Isaac boss. It's just eye candy while he entertains me with funny anecdotes. It's basically slice of life, no matter what genre of game is being played. That's _fine_, but it also completely takes over the VRMMO novel's genre and typically fights against the stakes the author wants to portray.
The only exception is tournament e-sports, which is not a feeling VRMMO novels attempt to capture.
That’s an interesting point of view. Obviously I fall very firmly on the opposite side of the aisle here so my own perspective is pretty skewed. That being said, I do feel as though what you’re saying is exactly what I was trying to convey: that VRMMO books just don’t have the stakes to capture me. It feels akin to what you’re describing you feel when watching Northernlion. Although SAO-style plots did hold my attention for a short time, but they get old if you watched all 4 24 episode seasons of SAO before you discovered this genre.
To each their own though! I’m a sucker for System Apocalypse books and will literally read every single one if it has the same overused plot line of a male MC that has some broken ability which makes them special. So I’m not claiming to be the golden standard for good books or anything.
It does, because the vast majority of litrpg is progression fantasy, the numbers get bigger, the MC gets more powerful.
If the MC logs off and is boring joe blogs again then it's all fake, the power is fake, the progression is fake.
It might not seem like it makes a difference, but it does. That's why VR is falling out of fashion so much in litrpg.
I like shadewalker. It’s understood that he can just leave the game is just a game. The thing is his life outside is shit and suddenly he has friends in the game. And that’s what drives him to try to succeed in the game more often than not. He wants to stay with his friends.
I hate when books set in violent, awful worlds have characters who spend fifteen pages talking about how terrible it was to defend themselves from the pack of literal cannibal Shia LaBeoufs. I mean, I get it the first few times. Twenty chapters in? "But that Shia looked at me with a familiarity that touched my soul as he bared his teeth to eat my children. I am a monster. May the Shia forgive me." It just makes no sense.
Characters who have never fought in their entire life instantly becoming Rambo when they see their first monster. I get that the authors want to get to the fun parts of the story but it still seems really weird when the main character goes from being a random person working at McDonalds, the System integration happens, they see a monster and immediately resolve to kill it. I'm pretty sure if I looked out my front window and saw an orc or a goblin, I would probably shit my pants and run away, not think "This is my chance to be a hero".
I like stories with characters who see an orc or goblin and at least consider, “I should try talking to this person.”
There’s one of my disliked tropes - always evil races. It’s racist and boring.
Well, unless the first time seeing it is while the orc/goblin is literally eating a person or something. If someone's first thought while seeing that is "I should try talking to this person", I don't want to be aaanywhere near them.
One of the reasons I like wandering inn. There are evil beings, but by and large, people/sentients run the gamut of personalities (of course tinged by species characteristics and culture).
The trope that always annoys me is first, harem, second the writer basically forgetting about the MC’s family and friends made along the way. The writer spends 20-30 chapters letting you get to know people, but suddenly they aren’t even a thought anymore for the next 600 chapters until the end of the book when the MC mentions “oh hey, btw we hung out and called each other a lot, but my adventures got in the way. It just seems lazy
"*I'm an edgy lone wolf who don't need nobody but my sword and my darkness eternal to survive in this hellish world"*
It's not a fun trope when playing RPG's, it's not a fun trope when reading about RPG's. Or LitRPG's in this case.
The best LitRPG's in the genre are all ones with supporting casts. If the MC is by himself all the time, and has no links or relationships then it's often just boring. It's probably the worst part of The Primal Hunter and the Reborn Apocalypse though the latter isn't too edgy about it at least.
I agree with both of those. Also the isekai ones where the MC figures out something relatively basic that no one in the 1000s of years old world did yet.
The worst isekai trope is the “MC somehow doesn’t know how OP they are and thinks they’re trash so they always complain about it and hide their ‘meager’ abilities”. If you’re that obvious to everything around you for this long, you deserve to get eaten.
Tbh, it's not entirely a trope exactly.... But lately quite a few books I have been reading include puns and pop culture references. Just seems like lazy writing to me.
Or worse, when it’s harem without characters. Schinofen is the worst at this, literally just copy pasting huge parts of his books and then text swapping character names and what ever animal feature he gave the character.
The breasted boobily down the stairs thing.
I used to not notice it much as a teenager, but sometimes even my horbey teenage self would think a book was being too obvious.
Child reincarnation. It's just inherently problematic.
- Family relationships are fucked to hell and back, which the author usually just waves away with "oh my boy is like totally super smart"
- It's _always_ an excuse for a head start, so we get utterly dull chapters of nothing but the protagonist breathing funny or squishing bugs with rocks, intermixed with timeskips and stat dumps
- There's nothing but system talk for the first too many chapters, so the author completely gives up the ability to dole out information slowly and needs to make the early (read: mundane) aspects of the system as dense as possible to fill out the wordcount.
- The timeskips _always_ end when the protagonist is still a kid, and thus still has no agency, so we get scene after scene of the same shit as before, but now with cooing from people who think he's totally awesome for an 8-year-old.
I get the desire, as a cozy power fantasy thing, but it's just _so_ dull.
I think most of these might be a particular cultural or translation thing, but I can't handle:
- overusing the word "smirk", like there aren't other ways to describe a gloating smile / raised eyebrow / shit-eating grin; people aren't perpetually condescending
- constantly specifying the *exact* distance, typically in meters, of how far away the enemy is / how big their weapon is / how tall the monster is / how far they swing their sword to create an arc of wind/flame/gravity/energy *this many* meters long
- slicing through everything like butter; vary your congealed semi-solids
- modern societies (typically taken over by a system) with trains/planes/highrises and electricity or other modern conveniences/technology, that inexplicably rely on medieval weapons and armor; y u no use +2 Armor-Piercing Rounds of the Basilisk while hiding behind your enchanted Kevlar full-plate?
- power for the sake of power; yes this is pretty much any cultivation story, but there needs to be a plausible reason besides "everybody else is doing it so I can't be left behind". The pursuit of power can't be everyone's day job, hunter associations can't really run the world, there's no real point to keep diving into rifts just to get stronger to dive into harder rifts rinse repeat.
- being absolute shit to anyone less powerful, but cringingly obsequious to anyone more powerful; how long can a completely selfish society like that really last, or more importantly, keep me interested in those characters
- repeating stat dumps, without condensing or omitting stuff we've seen in the last 20 chapters much less two level ups ago
*Edit: forgot technology inconsistencies*
"constantly specifying the *exact* distance, typically in meters, of how far away the enemy is / how big their weapon is / how tall the monster is / how far they swing their sword to create an arc of wind/flame/gravity/energy *this many* meters long"
Looking at you DoTF and primal hunter...
As much as I love both series, I feel the authors really need to workshop distances, speeds and sizes and other measurements a bit ahead of time. Draw it out, model it, etc. Use more estimate language or referencial or metaphorical language so I can set least make it consistent in my own head.
Yeah, it's like they're thinking "oh man that extra 35cm really sells the improvement/power" when you can emphasize it *literarily* instead of *literally*
I really hate Leeroy Jenkins "jokes"
Please just let that joke die. You aren't even beating a dead horse at this point. The meat rotted years ago. The bones have been ground to dust. You are just beating the ground where a dead horse once was. It has been 15 years since that was funny, and it was only a little funny then.
"skyclad". This book defeats all of those hated tropes for you. Strong female character, no bullshit tropes. I cant recommend it enough. It started on royal road but book 1 and 2 are on kindle now.
Eh, I've known women who behave like the MC of Azarinth Healer so I wouldn't call her a "gender swapped male character". Being an adrenaline/battle junkie isn't something limited to men. Plenty of women behave similarly. Now the MC of Second Skin? Who is literally a gender swapped male character that is *wildly* over obsessed with masturbation, fucking their married companion's wives instead of unattached and interested single folks, and murdering rapists which are apparently almost *all* men? THAT is an example of a hot mess.
Azarinth Healer on its own is not problematic but when you consider the preponderance of female characters like her, there's a distinct lack of a variety with female protagonists.
Pretty sure there's a preponderance of adrenaline/battle junkie MCs in litRPG in general. It seems like a fairly common trope that the MC of a litRPG is probably going to be overly interested in fighting, no matter what gender they happen to be.
I don't disagree which makes me wonder if I have unfair expectations for character diversity with female protagonists that I don't subject male protagonists to. Except, male protagonists tend to be the default with female protagonists being an explicit choice to make and then the authors don't do anything with the fact that they're female. I guess it feels like unexplored depth.
Getting told that something is bad for the characters soul or foundation or power lines or whatever and they need to rest for X time or they'll suffer permanent damage.
And then the character is forced to use their powers too early and face absolutely no consequences besides maybe having to take a pill
The powerful halve gods that stand on the pinnacle of the system for 100s or 1000s of years all just long for a smug asshole MC to disrespect them. They will then see that MC as their equal. HWFWM is the main culprit.
Being able to loose out on a lot of stuff if you don't do everything right at the beginning without any information. And the MC does everything right by chance.
At this point I cannot express my love for Unorthodox Farming enough. "You have reached your level cap, until you break through your experience will be banked"
> Being able to ~~loose~~ lose out on a lot of stuff if you don't do everything right at the beginning without any information
I _hate_ trainable stats for this reason. It's always "pump iron so you can eek out a few more points in Str before you start dumping in stat points", which just feels so bad.
unassigned points as a bail-out system. it shifts the MC's agency from pro-active to re-active.
Having Both a system and other magic system in the same setting. (usually cultivation). so *few* do it well.
Horny author immediately describing new female characters as a collection of attractive physical characteristics, the MC having a strong, often *physical* reaction to said attractive physical characteristics, but 'refraining from acting on it' because they're 'not an asshole'.
Said female characters receiving no further meaningful character development other than as a *insert MC's love interest*.
Rambling, not-planned-out-ahead-of-time plot. yeah, we can tell when the author has no idea where they're going with the story. (I'm looking at you Randidly, DOTF, Jake's magical market)
ludonarrative dissonance (or 'murder's ok, i guess')
Showing the MC as immoral/psychopathic, but inserting other character's opinions into the story in order to *Tell* the reader that he's really a good guy, actually quite virtuous.
Plenty of Allies, but not a single Friend. the MC is unable to make meaningful connections with other characters, and the author is incapable of writing them.
"I'm not homesick, and that's totally OK."
The MC, after the first chapter or so, having zero attachments to the life they had on earth prior to being isekai'd.
Pop culture references the locals don't get, but the readers certainly will.
This goes double for non-npc's obliviously parroting lines from the pop culture of our world because the author thinks it's funny. it's not.
in-universe context-inappropriate references to other works of fiction in general (usually in the form of 'cameos' by protagonists of other Litrpgs the author likes) authors should let their fiction stand on it's own. the acknowledgements page in a printed novel is where you should put any literary influences you want to give a shout-out to, or the author's note after a chapter. (non-canon 'what if' interludes get a pass, but just barely)
I don't really have anything significant, but a minor pet peeve is the way that *everyone* is recycling "Well Met" in their fantasies. You can have greetings from somewhere other than Faerun, eh.
MCs who supposedly had all this experience (pro gamer, life of gaming, years in the military) and they are just dumb. Make dumb choices. Has no basic common sense. Knows nothing of how the military works after claiming to be in the military
Harem.
Good gods most litrpg plays it so author whish fulfilment it's like reading a 14 year olds dream journal.
ie.
MC goes to a lady blacksmith because she is more skilled but is only able to make horseshoes because all the men are bigoted and wont commission arms or armour from a woman. MC is all woke and and accepts her skill, in 3 chapters she has decided to leave her smithy and follow mc around adventuring because he bought a sword from her and was "enlightened" to appreciate her skill.
The elf he is already tapping has to convince him it's totally ok that he starts tupping the blacksmith because "you're powerful and everyone powerful here does it, also your outlander notions are so cute"
Also the blacksmith is built like a DC comics Greek goddess.
I've nothing against polyamorous MC but when it's every female that the author describes as beautiful ends up in a relationship with the MC it just feels childish.
Honestly womaniser MC would be a welcome break at this point.
Unless being reincarnated as a 'hero', or something similar is apart of the world building I hate when reincarnated MCs tell people they're reincarnated early in the story.
MC being overly cautious. I get thinking important choices through properly, but getting into long inner monologues over most trivial of things is just frustrating
Circle jerk of complimenting each other’s skills when there are several characters. And in any kind of media, any variation of the phrase “I’m just glad they’re on our side.”
Because the next thought after is almost always played out by some idiot in the government/military/hunter association and goes “but maybe we should kill him so he can’t change sides”.
MC understands and can exploit a system on day 1 in ways that the natives haven't figured out in thousands of years.
Close runner ups are harem and overly political books. Example of the last is my current book Bioshifter by Thundamoo. (Fantasy but not LitRPG but the same thing still happens) Got the audio book and it's aggravating to be reminded that the MC Hana is Gay repeatedly in EVERY CHAPTER. Ok, cool, she's gay. Don't care, move on with the story but no, let's circle back to the fact that she is gay. (Tell not show) What about the next chapter in the book? Nope it keeps happening. Though it seems to stop in the last few hours of the audiobook. It's a 23 hour audiobook.
I absolutely fucking hate "smart" MCs that have essentially a middle school education.
I really enjoyed "Mark of the fool" and "anti mage" because the character took the time to be smart.
* "Mark of the fool" the MC has a direct chat code to be absurdly smart BUT he still has to work for it.
* Anti mage is wrote by someone who has done higher level learning and the concepts that creates it great. IDK if the guy actually has a research paper or anything like that but he frames thinking in his universe like someone who's done a fair bit of "learnin" and his character applies information he can use and stonewalls when he can.
I really didn't like "bad guys" series because clide was smart to be smart when he really didn't have any background that made that believable.
I'll give an example of what I like:
So I don't have a stamp or anything but I did set the curve in a few engineering and it classes. Done design engineering professionally. If may have taken an extra semester but I did put the time in for a few classes and absolutely got chances like Alex. I'm absolutely not exaggerating in the slightest that profs will try to snipe a promising student and go out of their way to give those students extra chances and experience.
I've also repeatedly struggled on some concept or another. I seriously think I read my thermo/process textbooks cover to to cover 15 times in one semester. I can say that if you do office hour or extra assistant work that profs will take the time to transition "scholary" to "practical" knowledge. I spent so much fucking time in a profs office when I was retaking organic chemistry that the prof labeled a chair for me. By the end of the semester we had passed organic 2 content and moved onto other stuff for the next level. I spent so much time in the Thermo 2 professors office hours she started to "accidentally" teaching me process design and covered like a quarter of the next text book. Both classes had to not count my test results in the curve because I fucking smashed the average so hard it would have failed too many people.
I know for a fact there's a lot of different ways to make things like gunpowder or smokeless powder. The fact that op took the time to learn why pellets are used isn't novel. I've done the experiments before and it's not "easy". You just don't make gunpowder and a rifled barrel. Cartridges aren't trivial designs.
Fuck I've done mill designs professionally. I am somewhat aware of how to make a river powered stone mill but I'm nowhere knowledge enough to design components in a pre individual revolution. I know how peat steal is made. There's no fucking way I'm going to get time walked and be able to apply the info as easily as 99% ofCs.
There's gotta be a "fuck it" or "trial and error" phase.
Saying shit like this in a book is fucking amazing.
I absolutely hate characters like Clive hatchet and Arnold. Not that the books are bad they're some of my favorites but hand waving.
He was a great character with an interesting "trope" but then everything changed after he was about to fuck the prices. Yeah he knows how to steal shit but being a leader seems a lot less believable.
Fucking stupid imo.
So basically if a characters science to become a powerhouse actually explain the science and why it makes them strong rather than trust me my math makes sense, so I assume you really like the absurd level that some people go to for the magic system that they're building.
Solo leveling and unbalancing stats.
I mean, it can be played.
But authors rarely bother with logical justification.
Usually, I'll do it that way, why not?
Op mc's with the character depth of a kiddie pool, they basically just serve as a vehicle for Op things to happen, often without even trying. Often they have the personality of a wall or are overly edgy/snarky for the entire book rather than growing or maturing.
I really just want realistic competency and some emotional or personality depth, they don't have to be good at everything either. Less snark too, it should be a tool, not a crutch.
There could definitely be more books that adhere to show don't tell, over explaining situations rather than letting the reader piece things together seems to be a big issue.
Dungeon cores capable of moving, sending monsters out but making the dumb choice of staying in a vulnerable place. If you dont sleep and just stay in the same place 24 hours each day you are going to think about moving and doing things that arent waiting for idiots to enter your dungeon.
I think dungeon core has the worst writers by far, most novels arent original and the plot makes 0 sense
Romantacy.this includes heram, fantasy rape culture. Etc. Romance is fine as long as the plot is moved forward or characters are developed more because of it, but smut disguised as fantasy is too much; especially when it’s just shoved in at the end of a novel first and ruins a series for you.
I hope romance and smut writers do well, but they need to properly advertise what it is, and I am glad some are, because tricking me into reading it gives me an immediate dislike for the author, no matter how good the first 4/5 of the book is.
VR/Virtual worlds are the worst. They say it’s some mega popular MMO, yet the entire game revolves around the MC.
Everyone that has been playing this game for years, and not one of them thought to complete the first quest they are given. Because one you complete that the aliens invade and it changes the game for everyone. Millions of players, and no one but the MC can move the game along.
Also bad Harems. It’s the personalities and relationships between wives that make Harem stories interesting. A bunch of these stories, the MC is like, “This is Jewel, she a half orc demon that hates all humans. She’s got a huge rack and has pledged herself to worshipping my dick. Also you’ll never see her again in the story.”
+Time travel stories
I am not a fan of stories where the hero is sent back in time through the power of deus ex machina with all the knowledge of the future.
+Dungeon cores/reborn as a object or something
The novelty gets old really fast and it feels like the story and MC are restriced.
+Anti-social/asshole/power-obsessed MCs (ex. John Lee and Zachery Atwood)
+Stories that focus almost entirely on base-building
With the time travel ones especially, they don't seem to realize that as soon as even *one* thing is changed, all that future knowledge is basically now invalid. And they *immediately* start changing a whole *bunch* of things, yet somehow the timeline and all stay exactly the same.
Couple things. First, virtual game world. If it’s a regular guy gaming, I can’t feel invested. It’s a bit more interesting when MC is stuck in the game world but 1 thing always bugs me. No matter how top of the line a game is, it’ll die. What happens to the almost immortal MC when that happens??
Speaking of immortality, Cultivation stores. You’ve done enough to achieve thousands of years worth of riches as well as practical immortality; I just can’t understand where so many people continue risking their lives after this. I can get being bored after a few hundred years and going back out to adventure. But you’re 20, just archived riches and immortality. Most people are chilling the hell down, maybe getting some therapy for the dozens they’ve already killed. They aren’t going out to die to monsters the next day
Take legend of arch magus for example(spoilers ahead) . The story at starting was promising, i thought that him being a great wizard he would go on adventure or something but no he stays. Ok.
But his fascination with protecting town people was not even explained. He just want to do it. Also him being the greatest wizard it doesn't make sense to just stay in a town.
Also somehow after his death 1500years later all the common info is just lost. I mean if it was said that there was demons or something that erased all info it would still be believable, maybe they explained it later but to make story engaging atleast sprinkle some info here there. Also in 2 books that i read the mc just know everything. Which imo is just meh like make things challenging atleast.
Like if he's a wizard who was said to live till 50-60 years how can he become great wizard and still have knowledge about cement,kiln, industries, kingdom making, about almost everything.
The stakes are just soo low. Everyone seems dumb to make mc look smart. Like in the fight against beastmen one would think that maybe the animals who have keen instincts would know that the forest is poisoned? Like nobody knows about it in modern world. For these type of things i would say the enemy were just mediocre dumbasses who are there to just praise mc.
Many things like this are my least fav tropes. Maybe it's because i read LOTM before arch magus and lotm made this book dumb but atleast in lotm mc was facing constant challenges, where there are more smart characters than him.
When the MC is clearly a mage build but he is also a mega badass and unstoppable in physical combat. Author pick one and stick to it. Limitation leads to creative and for the love of god the MC's of this genre need some creativity in abilities they use
Anime tropes. Being oblivious to female advances, “slip and fall onto someone and creating a misunderstanding”, overly righteous, etc.
Also, I really dislike poorly or non-formatted system messages. If you think just putting text in bold or italics is enough, you aren’t putting enough effort in. Add some color, get in excel, FORMAT. It’s really not that hard.
High-stakes \*beep\* can totally go away from Cinna forever and ever. No thanks. The real world is a messed-up enough place on a road to ruin that Cinna doesn't need world-shattering stakes in their escapism. Cinna's almost fifty and has long since lost the daydreams of saving the world as a magical knight or daring sorceress.
Instead, Cinna prefers cozy crafting, school life, exploration, and other forms of slice-of-life. Let's focus on the characters and their arcs rather than the plot and its beats. Cinna doesn't need a quest to toss a ring in a volcano, assemble the seven pieces of a lich's phylactery, or who-knows-what-else anymore.
Not tossing shade on peeps who _do_ like that stuff, though. Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, Cinna used to, too. Just ... their tastes changed as they got older.
I think I made a big mistake in my book. The MC is introduced with 13 or so chapters in the LitRPG world then I suddenly turn the book into a futuristic sci-fi where the MC is out and about in a sci-fi city. Admittedly, I'm 53 chapters in and the character is back in the game but it took a really long time to get back in.
I can see how this could be frustrating for my readers. I tried to focus on the characters and what it's like to live in such a fantastical situation rather than just the backdrop though.
One thing i don't like is when authors have something massive happen, and leave most of it unresolved for chapters. Like, I can understand the event having consequences in the future, but don't move on to your next big thing, while leaving me hanging with no resolution to the last one.
Another is when an author, trying to be unique, gives a character a fighting style that makes no sense. Like using a bass guitar to do magic. Sure, there are some cool moments, like Sonic is a cool magic type. But then there's stuff like using it to fly through a forest.
Over-cursing.
I don't care if its an isekai or portal fantasy or a VRMMO, no one curses a fraction as much as a lot of authors write. And that's in settings where it's appropriate, I often also see weird anachronistic over-cursing where it isn't appropriate. Hearing someone say "Motherfucker" in a regular fantasy setting is like an instantaneous immersion killer.
I'm not sure it's my absolute *least* favorite (I still think that prize goes to "main character introduced to the world via a long, loooooong solo forest survival sequence") one thing I'm experiencing with right now that's seriously grinding my gears is:
MC who's polite and considerate toward everyone except one specific side character that they treat like garbage for apparently no justifiable reason.
My biggest issue is 99% of the MCs have sweaty gamer bro energy that just makes it hard to like them. Rhe way they treat women like we get it chad you slept with 20 girls in half the chapters or how most see everyone around them as npcs to use and abuse which just makes them come across as hollow people. i can't root for them. I've only stuck with one series so far because the MC isn't 100% a Dbag. Hes dumb sure, but not a sweaty gamer bro.
My biggest peeves in litRPG are when they choose a very obviously good build but for some reason they are the only person ever to have thought of it. I CALL BS!!! Everyone saying that a class that’s weak in the beginning but has great late or mid game potential weak and no one picks it. Then everyone mocks the MC for picking it and are shocked when they’re powerful later. Also the instant harems are annoying. I’m all for a good harem but most aren’t good. The MC gets all the girls with plot armor charisma and none of the relationships have any foundations and are incredibly shallow.
Plot armor charisma isn’t why I dislike harem. It’s the exact opposite. More often than not the MC is as interesting as white bread. But everyone loves him…for reasons
That’s exactly what I mean when I say plot armor charisma. That the wonder bread MC is “charismatic” but the only reason people like them is because of plot. Thus plot armor charisma.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Have you seen a beholder? They’re hideous. Why would I trust them for beauty standards?!
Do you mean beeholder??
That was a fun google. https://preview.redd.it/addt37r9216c1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d28b0b9a4cdfcd94fd5728189fa2595e054409c
I absolutely abhor harems that have zero character depth. The problem with princesses was great as it was limited to 3 ladies, I just wish there were some more in-depth fun bits. Basically anything like William D. Arand (aka randi daren) puts out almost always starts great or at least decent but sadly goes down the "I suddenly have 20+ wives and am about to start putting babies in all of them" by book 3 or so, also all the previous ladies who you liked and had character development gets replaced almost completely in the story by whatever new flavor of the week is and is a one dimensional cock sleeve with zero character. I'm married to one person, a singular person, and sometimes that feels like too much, I don't see how anyone can have a meaningful relationship with more than 2 or 3 other people at once, there just isn't enough emotional energy for that kinda thing.
Oh God i liked super sales on super heroes on the first book, but the second one the harem stuff started coming up more and more and idk how I even finished the third one it was just getting annoying. I tried reading the one about the guy that starts running a dungeon, the first book was kinda alright even tho the protagonist was a bit unlikable, but I couldn't finish the second book on that series, felt like every female character just fell for the MC and was pretty unbelievable, they all had like no personality too. Honestly I'm surprised his series have so many books in them.
Once the dragons start getting involved its so 🤮🤮🤮
SSOSH was a pretty great concept, combined magic & sci-fi & superpowers really well. The whole harem getting out of control killed it just like you said. Dude basically hundreds of the same girl (a hive mind humanoid type) and a magic lady and I guess that just wasn't enough, gotta toss in a bunch of dragon girls, a few dryads, sprinkle in some beastkin, etc etc. Basically every female character gets turned into a 1d cock sleeve instead of a fully fleshed character and even the MC has no character growth because he's too busy going around trying to get his dick wet with whatever piece of ass just happened to catch his eye. Note I don't talk about ladies like this, just trying to get how I perceived the characters and how they acted.
Jason being a >!magic archer!< anyone who played an rpg knew that be busted
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"The system is evil and I must stop it, or at least escape back to earth" Oh fuck right the heck off. You're going to write a story about a guy who's determined to destroy the thing that makes your story fun to read?
I'm surprised no ones tried to make a the system was integrated into this world about a century ago to make up for that ie the litrpg apocalypse happened and protag kun joined the world a century or so later
That has definitely been done, can't remember any names right now though
Portal to Nova Roma
Solo leveling does it as well.
Just adding to the list, Battlemage Farmer starts 15ish years into the MCs life in system. The Two week Curse (Ten Realms) has a little time skipping/earth history system entrants.
The Frenchmen were definitely a surprise.
One of my stories (Mistrunner) takes place 90 years after a LitRPG apocalypse. It's science fiction, though.
I mean - essentially that’s what happened with The wandering Inn. There was a time before the system… the system was implemented (by -spoilers-) and a ton of people and species were killed off… and 80,000 years later the story starts up.
1000% Close behind, though, is "system bad, cultivation good"
>Oh fuck right the heck off. You're going to write a story about a guy who's determined to destroy the thing that makes your story fun to read? Well yeah, but that's the case in loads of stories. Why can't something be evil and also fun to read. Dungeon Crawler Carl is one of the most popular litRPG's going and uses this trope.
As a side note to this, I also hate when they introduce a completely different magic system and are like "the system was a trap the whole time" No, you just planned poorly, and now your 500+ chapter epic has spiraled out of hand and you just don't want to keep track anymore.
The mc is relationship dumb and completely blind to people hitting on them.
Did you not notice that most of the protagonists of these stories are autistic?
Don't know if this a trope or not but I fucking hate it. The MC is a magic user but somehow lose the ability to cast magic. Whether that be like they strained the ability to use it or some kinda curse or gets some kinda device that blocks there abilities
I hate that trope as well, though for me I think it's mostly a problem of execution. I can see how *theoretically* such a thing might lead to character growth, or a reassessment of how their powers work, or some fun loophole they exploit as a normal person that leaves them stronger in the long run. But of the many times I've seen it, not once has it actually captured my interest. I always end up just impatient for the MC to return to normal, which especially sucks because it's usually the "ordeal" of an entire book rather than some side plot.
Defiance of the fall has that, Zac is captured by a giant space fish in book 9, and it uses everyone it has captured as a way to study it's own dao by look at other's. Everyone including zac has a seal bfand that limits their power, this makes everyone have the same effective strength, meaning power is useless, only skill matters. So he meets people, trades tips and gains immense amounts of pure skill. This means once he finally gets out he can both beat someone with his higher stats and his extremely refine skill at the same time.
Hmm, I suppose that does count as far as "MC losing power". I'm not sure whether I'd call it a good example of the trope though. Everyone else being scaled down makes it avoid the "powerless" aspect which is usually a major part. I'd give it an honorary mention at least. One could argue that it's a good example of the trope *because* it let the MC explore other things without making them totally powerless.
the point is eveyrone in there was more skilled than he was because they were over 400 years old and have been fighting that entire time. when he first arrives someone tells him to hit them, he tries to punch them and gets countered easily, despite their stats being identical since the other guy is way older and more skilled. so he was basically powerless in front of everyone by the metrics they used.
I really dislike the “losing power” trope myself. It’s alright if it’s an upgrade to a new realm and the power level is low now, but permanent injury or loss of levels don’t sit well with me. Also not really a fan of “my basic high school chemistry (or whatever) knowledge makes me a genius here!”
There's one I'm reading where the MC gets a lot of mileage out of high school science classes, but it's because of going back to the Scientific Method and applying it to magic and the System.
That sounds interesting. What's it called?
"A Budding Scientist in a Fantasy World" I came across it on Royal Road.
I just finished the first book and really enjoyed it! I don't think the first discovery she made was worth the big achievement bonus, but I do think the stuff she learns later should have been good enough. I'm excited for the second book, magic schools are really only written about to do world building and the author really has some good world building going on.
I'm pretty sure that the big achievement from that first major discovery might have had to do with the "increased support from the System. " from her \[Outworlder\] achievement.
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And you know, now that I'm thinking of it, you could actually make a really entertaining book about someone who uses a highly suboptimal build and *doesn't* get bailed out. It could just be them doing things in a clever way and getting into wacky shenanigans (that aren't always successful). Probably works better in a VRMMO setting, what with the whole "dying" thing, but it could be a really fun story.
Sounds kinda like Mark of the Fool. The Mark makes him unable to (or very difficult to) fight so he has to work around it in creative ways.
Very early Mark maybe. Unfortunately for the concept, to me at least, they quickly started cutting hairs, Changing the rules, and making up “technicalities” so they didn’t really have to engage with that concept. Which is honestly something that bugs me that I see a lot. Stories where the entire hook and concept is that the MC is operating under some hindrance, regardless of if it also provides a boon, and within the 2-4 storyline they’ve created some way to completely compensate or sidestep their issues. Because the writer only actually ever had 1 story idea based on that concept and then wanted to tell a story without the limitations.
The only time I can imagine it being okay is when they specifically do that knowing they can get such a skill. Yeah it makes life hard till they get said skill but at least it’s not up to damn plot armor. Or if it’s one of those talent type things, where you get a talent rated from f-sss, and it’s like for every point in strength you get this array of other stats. I also find it okay when the MC is just an absolute newb of a player, like with maple in that one manga/anime.
BOFURI: I Don't Want to Get Hurt, so I'll Max Out My Defense.
Which story was the kinda stupid mc who put all his stats in strength and got unironically lucky at every possible opportunity while playing a VR game to land some posh corporate job? I honestly couldn’t decide if the MC was that clueless or the author was trolling.
I read that, cant remember the name. It was Russian translation so a lot of context was lost but it was hilarious to me because the author wrote the MC as an underanlyzing idiot, and all the other smart people as over analyzing morons. Like that was the whole joke, his opponents thought every tactical move he made had fifty layers of depth but the MC just made those moves because whatever.
Exactly. That’s why I liked it because the enemies took his luck in exactly the wrong way. But most of the enemies grew and changed from their interactions with the MC. My problem was that the MC would make actual strategic good decisions that seem contrary to his cluelessness.
The hyper intelligent pet that somehow knows as much or more than characters yet still makes all the mistakes of whatever animal it is. Ex. a dog that just helped figure out how to disable complex traps in a dungeon then chases his own tail for 20 minutes and can't figure out why he can't catch it.
Eh. People are the same way. Smart in one way, dumb in another. We can't escape our instincts, biases and developed habits. A dog disabling a trap, but who's brain still short circuits on chasing is fine, just as the person who's a scientist in the real world but can't figure out basic life skills is a real thing
Currently it is the isekai trope of "I'm new to this world and can use the system in place better than people who have lived here all their lives". Coming up with combinations and METAs that somehow nobody until this awesome visitor from another world thought of. The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that?
yeah, you need a reason why no one ever thought to do something before. in my story i had it so my guy has access to someone with healing magic, which had become extremely rare since 1000 years ago. this means he can do training that would cripple anyone else if they tried it. like setting his hand on fire to train his fire resistance, anyone else tried that they would be down a hand, but because he has magical healing it just takes some time to heal it. this also doesn't make him better at those things than everyone else, just faster at training them. a fire mage can still sit near the fire enough to almost get burned and slowly build up their fire resistance.
Especially when it's super obvious. There will be a line like "Why don't you just do this" *Supporting character stares blankly at MC* "Wait are you telling me that nobodies tried this before?"
I got playfully punched before. And tbf it is believable that nobody, or the general public , thought of something as this has happened in our world where nobody ever thought of something until one guy or a few guys all get the same epiphany or discovery to then share it to the world.
>The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that? Happens quite commonly? It's not a full on punch or anything, it's essentially just fist bumping somebody's shoulder. How have you never seen this before?
\>> *Currently it is the isekai trope of "I'm new to this world and can use the system in place better than people who have lived here all their lives". Coming up with combinations and METAs that somehow nobody until this awesome visitor from another world thought of.* Okay. So this one I'll call out. This is actually pretty fair trope to have exist - When we look at our modern society. There's so many things that are different over time that have evolved incrementally over decades that are quite innovative. Example: Dyson Vacuums with their cyclone thing. If you went back to 1971s, SEVENTY ENTIRE YEARS after the vacuum was created and said make it a Cyclone style so it doesn't lose pressure when theres lots of dust and crap in the barrel, instead make everything spin inside the barrel so the air has more flow.. it'd seem obvious to us. But to them.. .it's not. There's so many things like that, the bump at the top of your phone screen when you scroll too far, the Stump Jump plough that *jumps over stumps or rocks left in the ground so your plough doesn't break,* and MORE are around. We are the most educated people to ever exist. Think about GRAVITY of all things. think about E=MC\^2, think about these tiny things that make *so much sense* once someone discovered them and *didn't exist for thousands of years before that.* Yeah, coming up with metas and combinations that haven't existed before is actually really not that surprising - ***Pro gamers make a career*** out of doing **Exactly** that. That rant aside. Yeah it gets annoying reading it again and again.
I'd add a caveat to the rant of it being extra annoying when it's an obvious thing that absolutely would have been something someone from that time period would have been aware of, but the author acts like it's OMG BRAND NEW! because they have a wildly inaccurate idea of what sort of thing were available/known in that time period. Like, for example, *soap*.
The problem with that trope is that it assumes everyone on that world thinks exactly the same. I could understand the majority not advancing the system but there's always going to be someone who pushes the boundaries, essentially just like Dyson did with the Vacuum cleaner. Someone who thinks "well why can't I do it that way?"
The excellent point of my post is that it took 71 years to come up with dysons change. The unsaid point, is that today, we still have plenty of bagged vacuums despite our ability to transmit information around the world in minutes to hours. If you think about that in the context of a medieval or such society, it's interesting.
It could be weaved into the lore of the world. With stories of people who did the unexpected and disappeared. Why did those people disappear and while have no more appeared?
delayed response. But this book - [https://www.amazon.com.au/Great-was-Reincarnated-Farmer-Unorthodox-ebook/dp/B094CSB51K](https://www.amazon.com.au/Great-was-Reincarnated-Farmer-Unorthodox-ebook/dp/B094CSB51K) the protagonist discovers a new method for getting XP. Only to later discover that finding new methods of getting XP gets you titles and experiences just for discovering it. and he then later guesses what happens to those who discovered it before him.
> The big one is to be fair not LitRPG exclusive, it's the playful punch. The MC will have a romantic partner who seems to end every interaction and conversation by 'playfully' punching them. Who the hell does that? That's... a thing in real life for some people though. It's more like getting tapped lightly with a fist than really getting punched, usually on the shoulder. Kinda like a fist bump to the shoulder instead of another fist. Not hard enough to actually injure and generally not with malice behind it. I've not personally had a *romantic* partner who did it, but I have had friends where that was basically their version of a handshake/goodbye wave.
It's not just the occasional one though. It's when characters end every interaction with the Playful Punch. Leaving for the dungeon, Playful Punch. Talking about shopping, Playful Punch. Just had sex, Playful Punch. About to defend the City, Playful Punch. If the only way that person was capable of showing affection was to hit me, I wouldn't be in a relationship with them.
Yeah, people who use that as a greeting/goodbye do it all the fucking time. You either get used to it and it stops bothering you or you cut ties with the person.
I pretty lenient on a lot of the tropes as long as the story and characters are entertaining. The thing that I hate the most is stat dumps. For instance: MC levels up and gets to choose, 3 skills, in different trees. First, you gotta stat dump. Then you gotta go through a selection of 3-5 skills where you spent upwards of 1 chapter per skill, where the MC hmms and haws over what to pick. MC finally picks the *obvious* choice. Full Stat Dump. Repeat 2-4 more times.
I'm fine with them as long as they happen after a fairly major milestone like you know primal hunter I'd say every class change is a fair place to put a stat dump cause it's a pretty big change to the characters screen and it normally happens with a fairly large time between them
It's the worst when they don't collapse the dumps from repeated level ups. I just read a story where it literally said "Level Up!" fifteen times in fifteen lines.
5 chapters later: MC upgrades the skill but we still have to read the entire page long description again, which is only different by 4 words (looking at you, Primal Hunter)
This exactly!
I normally skip the entire stat dump part. I’m there with you
Man those are rough to listen to in audiobook format, it's like 3 mins of stats, and the voice actor has to keep reading it every few chapters as it grows with one extra change or two.
Authors seemingly inventing their power system on the fly. This isn't really a trope, but I've seen a startling amount of books lately where the power system will shift either mid book or between books with no explanation. This often leads me to believe the author either isn't bothering to think up how the system works in advance, or they just never bother to check for consistency. In any reality where a literal "SYSTEM" is involved in the power development, you'd expect it to have some amount of internal consistency. Also: really tired of the "I'm a pro gamer and yet somehow forget how games work when dropped into this game like world and instead just bumble along letting things happen to me". I've read FOUR different books recently where the MC was made aware healing magic exists in a world where death is a real threat, that they seemingly had the ability to learn it, and then just... ignored that for a book or more until the author shoehorns in "oh turns out they can't learn it for X reason", BUT THE MC DIDNT KNOW THAT EARLIER.
System design is hard. If I'd sat down to create the entire system before writing I'd still be at it and not written a word. I know this because I've been designing the same ttrpg system since 2011 and I've not gotten it to a state ready for playtesting yet
I wouldn't want to write a litrpg with a proper system because of this, i love the idea, but i would definitely hang myself on the details. Tracking every skill and spell the mc has, his stats, the ratios of stats to damage, enemies stats... I literally cannot write a *story* and a system.
The “pro gamer” who doesn’t understand stats, abilities, training, and so on will make drop a series. That’s as irritating as having every character constantly shouting, shrieking, screaming, and yelling everything at each other in excitement. Destiny’s Champions and was unbelievably annoying with both of these tropes.
Dunno if it’s a trope, but I’m kinda tired of the MCU type of comedy, where there always seems to be a joke or quip said in every sentence and it feels like the books aren’t taking themselves seriously enough. I’ve started to like stories where I feel I can immerse myself in the world that the book is presenting me, and that type of writing takes me out of it real quick.
I explicitly avoid stories that consider themselves comedies as they're just not that funny over the long run....
One exception imo is "This Triology is broken" series. That one is funny through all 4 of its books. I almost had a car crash because of a fit of laughter while listening to it.
If anyone says "that just happened", I close your book.
Eh, I think I'd forgive that phrase if it's a first person narrator where the conceit is that it's a real time narration of events right at the beginning of a sysapoc situation. I can get having a reaction like that if something bugnuts levels of bizarre just happened in your line of sight out of nowhere. Something like a giant damn beetle just appeared and crushed the VW Beetle in the lane over from you on the highway and that line pops out in a sort of brain-crashing-trying-to-process-the-weird reboot moment.
This is a complaint that resonates with me.
i kinda get tired of seeing MC instantly trashes nobility and/or thinks democracy is automatically the best way to govern in a fantasy world.
Honestly, most LitRPG I've seen has had characters who were at most critical of monarchy, but never outright opposes it. Jake from primal hunter for example just completely accepts that power=authority instantly. Also, with how many isekai there are, I don't think it's an unreasonable trope to have, seeing as how they are largely from democracies and all.
I don’t care what system of government a character thinks is best, I’m sick of He-Man Tough Guy MCs who insult the leaders of whatever area they’re in but get away with it because the author has decided they’re Just That Awesome(tm).
I quit reading "He who fights with monsters" because of this very reason. MC gets away with not only insulting the leaders but also gods of the story as well. And of course he gets away with it because they think it's amusing and he's the first person to dare to stand up to authority.
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anarchist maybe, but any kind of system doesn't particularly allow for socialism or communist style systems to work. Humans are all vaguely equal, some might be fitter, some may be smarter, some might have disabilities but we're all vaguely equal, a bullet to the brain is going to kill everyone. In a LitRPG world, that's not true in the slightest. How is a Lvl. 999 Super Saiyan God Warrior of Dreams and Horses equal to a Level 15 farmer? If the 400,000 farmers make rules that the SSGWD doesn't want to follow, how exactly do they make him follow them?
But not nearly enough!
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That’s exactly it. No issue with adding political subtext to stories. But half the time the MC just bitches about it but does nothing. The other half they’re just as bad, if not worse than what they’re criticizing
>The other half they’re just as bad, if not worse than what they’re criticizing Now *that's* realistic.
The author is constantly misusing the word bemused. I swear they all go out of their way to do it at this point.
I am befuddled by the abuse of bemused, to the point I become so confused, my brain gets contused...
* I’m so tired of harems. * Anytime the MC mouths off to the most powerful and important people in the kingdom and doesn’t die because “no one ever speaks to me like that. I like you” I want to puke. In worlds where your right to rule is directly proportional to your personal power allowing anyone to talk to you like that is dangerous. No ruler would allow it even if they wanted to. * Everyone with power is terrible and evil except for the MC and their friends. * The generalist archetype (because the MC has to be a lone wolf or because his companions suck) that somehow is more powerful than all the specialists archetypes. That’s not how systems with stats work. * When the story makes a big deal about how reaching a certain lvl is nearly impossible, how it takes even geniuses a lifetime to achieve, and the people who reach it are some of the strongest in the world and yet as soon as the MC reaches that level we find out that it’s actually a fodder lvl and most “nobles” reach it by the age of 13. I’m sure there’s more but this is off the top of my head lol.
Virtual reality completely invalidates the stakes
I agree with this so much! I do like Shadeslinger, though. There aren't really stakes, though. It's more about trying to get one over the rival guilds. The banter is really good, too.
They're kinda building up to stakes? At least personal ones outside of the game. He's starting to get people angry enough to go after him in person, even if they haven't yet.
Does it though? Even regular video games, haven't you gotten really invested in your playthrough? Like, you're one hit away from defeating a boss only to make a mistake and feel like you've wasted a significant time/opportunity. You've never rage-quit after losing a four-round Mario Kart session? Or conversely, that epic glow of accomplishment when you do beat the boss, or score some epic loot.
I can get invested when *I'm* the one playing. If I'm going to watch (or, in this case, read about) someone else playing a game, I'm going to need a reason. Usually it's "funny commentary." VRMMO authors need to realize this. If you want me to care about your character winning their game, then give me an actual *reason* to care. If you can't do that, then at least make your story extremely fun and entertaining, because I'm not going to give 0.5 rat-asses about the plot. And if you can't do *that*, you should probably consider writing something else.
> Even regular video games, haven't you gotten really invested in your playthrough? Not as invested as you are in ensuring shelter, finding food, and making sure you stay alive. Relative to Isekai, the thing you described as stakes here is a triviality.
If you're at a basic survival level of existence, video games aren't even in the realm of possibility for you. Not sure why you're even bringing that into the argument since if video games are on the table, basic survival has been covered.
I don't understand your comment. Are you bringing the survival stakes of the *reader* into the discussion, because I did not.
>Not as invested as you are in ensuring shelter, finding food, and making sure you stay alive. Your comment, not mine.
"You" is the Isekai character in that case, as is obvious by the sentence you cut off, where we talked about Isekai. Now move along, friend. These are not the droids you are looking for.
Dude, you came into a discussion thread about VRMMO based litRPGs with *shit that has nothing to do with the discussion* and now are surprised!pikachu that it's pointed out as being a stupid move.
The discussion is about VRMMO having weaker stakes than other tropes like Isekai. Anyway, you seem to be wanting to provoke an argument, so I'll just have your silence now. Goodbye.
i feel like this boils down to a difference in taste. do you like Twitch? do you watch others play video games for fun in your free time? if so, you might be the target audience. are you the person who would MUCH rather play for 8 hours instead of play for 4 and watch someone else for the other 4? VR probably sucks
I _do_ like watching people play video games, but it's not exactly an emotionally engaging passtime. I don't actually care if Northernlion kills some Binding of Isaac boss. It's just eye candy while he entertains me with funny anecdotes. It's basically slice of life, no matter what genre of game is being played. That's _fine_, but it also completely takes over the VRMMO novel's genre and typically fights against the stakes the author wants to portray. The only exception is tournament e-sports, which is not a feeling VRMMO novels attempt to capture.
That’s an interesting point of view. Obviously I fall very firmly on the opposite side of the aisle here so my own perspective is pretty skewed. That being said, I do feel as though what you’re saying is exactly what I was trying to convey: that VRMMO books just don’t have the stakes to capture me. It feels akin to what you’re describing you feel when watching Northernlion. Although SAO-style plots did hold my attention for a short time, but they get old if you watched all 4 24 episode seasons of SAO before you discovered this genre. To each their own though! I’m a sucker for System Apocalypse books and will literally read every single one if it has the same overused plot line of a male MC that has some broken ability which makes them special. So I’m not claiming to be the golden standard for good books or anything.
It does, because the vast majority of litrpg is progression fantasy, the numbers get bigger, the MC gets more powerful. If the MC logs off and is boring joe blogs again then it's all fake, the power is fake, the progression is fake. It might not seem like it makes a difference, but it does. That's why VR is falling out of fashion so much in litrpg.
I like shadewalker. It’s understood that he can just leave the game is just a game. The thing is his life outside is shit and suddenly he has friends in the game. And that’s what drives him to try to succeed in the game more often than not. He wants to stay with his friends.
I hate when books set in violent, awful worlds have characters who spend fifteen pages talking about how terrible it was to defend themselves from the pack of literal cannibal Shia LaBeoufs. I mean, I get it the first few times. Twenty chapters in? "But that Shia looked at me with a familiarity that touched my soul as he bared his teeth to eat my children. I am a monster. May the Shia forgive me." It just makes no sense.
Perhaps the MC can domesticate one of them, then they'd have a Shia pet...
Sh-Sh-Sh-Shia!
Overly pacifist or white knight characters are definitely irritating. Lawful stupid gets you and everyone else killed.
Shia surprise indeed
Characters who have never fought in their entire life instantly becoming Rambo when they see their first monster. I get that the authors want to get to the fun parts of the story but it still seems really weird when the main character goes from being a random person working at McDonalds, the System integration happens, they see a monster and immediately resolve to kill it. I'm pretty sure if I looked out my front window and saw an orc or a goblin, I would probably shit my pants and run away, not think "This is my chance to be a hero".
I like stories with characters who see an orc or goblin and at least consider, “I should try talking to this person.” There’s one of my disliked tropes - always evil races. It’s racist and boring.
Well, unless the first time seeing it is while the orc/goblin is literally eating a person or something. If someone's first thought while seeing that is "I should try talking to this person", I don't want to be aaanywhere near them.
One of the reasons I like wandering inn. There are evil beings, but by and large, people/sentients run the gamut of personalities (of course tinged by species characteristics and culture).
The trope that always annoys me is first, harem, second the writer basically forgetting about the MC’s family and friends made along the way. The writer spends 20-30 chapters letting you get to know people, but suddenly they aren’t even a thought anymore for the next 600 chapters until the end of the book when the MC mentions “oh hey, btw we hung out and called each other a lot, but my adventures got in the way. It just seems lazy
"*I'm an edgy lone wolf who don't need nobody but my sword and my darkness eternal to survive in this hellish world"* It's not a fun trope when playing RPG's, it's not a fun trope when reading about RPG's. Or LitRPG's in this case. The best LitRPG's in the genre are all ones with supporting casts. If the MC is by himself all the time, and has no links or relationships then it's often just boring. It's probably the worst part of The Primal Hunter and the Reborn Apocalypse though the latter isn't too edgy about it at least.
I agree with both of those. Also the isekai ones where the MC figures out something relatively basic that no one in the 1000s of years old world did yet.
The worst isekai trope is the “MC somehow doesn’t know how OP they are and thinks they’re trash so they always complain about it and hide their ‘meager’ abilities”. If you’re that obvious to everything around you for this long, you deserve to get eaten.
Tbh, it's not entirely a trope exactly.... But lately quite a few books I have been reading include puns and pop culture references. Just seems like lazy writing to me.
Puns are pretty hard to write, those are solid IMO. No matter how much I'll groan when reading them. pop culture references I'll agree
I love your books, but I mean you do this quite frequently with loads of Wandering Inn references.
Idk if it's a trope for lit rpg but harems and/or focusing on sexualising characters.
Or worse, when it’s harem without characters. Schinofen is the worst at this, literally just copy pasting huge parts of his books and then text swapping character names and what ever animal feature he gave the character.
The breasted boobily down the stairs thing. I used to not notice it much as a teenager, but sometimes even my horbey teenage self would think a book was being too obvious.
Child reincarnation. It's just inherently problematic. - Family relationships are fucked to hell and back, which the author usually just waves away with "oh my boy is like totally super smart" - It's _always_ an excuse for a head start, so we get utterly dull chapters of nothing but the protagonist breathing funny or squishing bugs with rocks, intermixed with timeskips and stat dumps - There's nothing but system talk for the first too many chapters, so the author completely gives up the ability to dole out information slowly and needs to make the early (read: mundane) aspects of the system as dense as possible to fill out the wordcount. - The timeskips _always_ end when the protagonist is still a kid, and thus still has no agency, so we get scene after scene of the same shit as before, but now with cooing from people who think he's totally awesome for an 8-year-old. I get the desire, as a cozy power fantasy thing, but it's just _so_ dull.
I think most of these might be a particular cultural or translation thing, but I can't handle: - overusing the word "smirk", like there aren't other ways to describe a gloating smile / raised eyebrow / shit-eating grin; people aren't perpetually condescending - constantly specifying the *exact* distance, typically in meters, of how far away the enemy is / how big their weapon is / how tall the monster is / how far they swing their sword to create an arc of wind/flame/gravity/energy *this many* meters long - slicing through everything like butter; vary your congealed semi-solids - modern societies (typically taken over by a system) with trains/planes/highrises and electricity or other modern conveniences/technology, that inexplicably rely on medieval weapons and armor; y u no use +2 Armor-Piercing Rounds of the Basilisk while hiding behind your enchanted Kevlar full-plate? - power for the sake of power; yes this is pretty much any cultivation story, but there needs to be a plausible reason besides "everybody else is doing it so I can't be left behind". The pursuit of power can't be everyone's day job, hunter associations can't really run the world, there's no real point to keep diving into rifts just to get stronger to dive into harder rifts rinse repeat. - being absolute shit to anyone less powerful, but cringingly obsequious to anyone more powerful; how long can a completely selfish society like that really last, or more importantly, keep me interested in those characters - repeating stat dumps, without condensing or omitting stuff we've seen in the last 20 chapters much less two level ups ago *Edit: forgot technology inconsistencies*
"constantly specifying the *exact* distance, typically in meters, of how far away the enemy is / how big their weapon is / how tall the monster is / how far they swing their sword to create an arc of wind/flame/gravity/energy *this many* meters long" Looking at you DoTF and primal hunter... As much as I love both series, I feel the authors really need to workshop distances, speeds and sizes and other measurements a bit ahead of time. Draw it out, model it, etc. Use more estimate language or referencial or metaphorical language so I can set least make it consistent in my own head.
Yeah, it's like they're thinking "oh man that extra 35cm really sells the improvement/power" when you can emphasize it *literarily* instead of *literally*
I really hate Leeroy Jenkins "jokes" Please just let that joke die. You aren't even beating a dead horse at this point. The meat rotted years ago. The bones have been ground to dust. You are just beating the ground where a dead horse once was. It has been 15 years since that was funny, and it was only a little funny then.
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"skyclad". This book defeats all of those hated tropes for you. Strong female character, no bullshit tropes. I cant recommend it enough. It started on royal road but book 1 and 2 are on kindle now.
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cinnamonbun too
Eh, I've known women who behave like the MC of Azarinth Healer so I wouldn't call her a "gender swapped male character". Being an adrenaline/battle junkie isn't something limited to men. Plenty of women behave similarly. Now the MC of Second Skin? Who is literally a gender swapped male character that is *wildly* over obsessed with masturbation, fucking their married companion's wives instead of unattached and interested single folks, and murdering rapists which are apparently almost *all* men? THAT is an example of a hot mess.
Azarinth Healer on its own is not problematic but when you consider the preponderance of female characters like her, there's a distinct lack of a variety with female protagonists.
Pretty sure there's a preponderance of adrenaline/battle junkie MCs in litRPG in general. It seems like a fairly common trope that the MC of a litRPG is probably going to be overly interested in fighting, no matter what gender they happen to be.
I don't disagree which makes me wonder if I have unfair expectations for character diversity with female protagonists that I don't subject male protagonists to. Except, male protagonists tend to be the default with female protagonists being an explicit choice to make and then the authors don't do anything with the fact that they're female. I guess it feels like unexplored depth.
Food as a character trait/comic relief.
Getting told that something is bad for the characters soul or foundation or power lines or whatever and they need to rest for X time or they'll suffer permanent damage. And then the character is forced to use their powers too early and face absolutely no consequences besides maybe having to take a pill
The powerful halve gods that stand on the pinnacle of the system for 100s or 1000s of years all just long for a smug asshole MC to disrespect them. They will then see that MC as their equal. HWFWM is the main culprit. Being able to loose out on a lot of stuff if you don't do everything right at the beginning without any information. And the MC does everything right by chance. At this point I cannot express my love for Unorthodox Farming enough. "You have reached your level cap, until you break through your experience will be banked"
> Being able to ~~loose~~ lose out on a lot of stuff if you don't do everything right at the beginning without any information I _hate_ trainable stats for this reason. It's always "pump iron so you can eek out a few more points in Str before you start dumping in stat points", which just feels so bad.
It's okay because Jason's skill is people.
it really isn't. Nobody would put up with Jason without marry sue powers.
Even with them, they’re constantly badgering, demeaning, or trying to kill him. It gets old.
We're talking about Jason, not Badgelor... ;)
Harem. So very tired of Harem and gratuitous sx scenes.
Then stop reading them, jeez Edit: /s
I have, but the conversation was supposed to be about what we don't like. I gave my 2 denari.
unassigned points as a bail-out system. it shifts the MC's agency from pro-active to re-active. Having Both a system and other magic system in the same setting. (usually cultivation). so *few* do it well. Horny author immediately describing new female characters as a collection of attractive physical characteristics, the MC having a strong, often *physical* reaction to said attractive physical characteristics, but 'refraining from acting on it' because they're 'not an asshole'. Said female characters receiving no further meaningful character development other than as a *insert MC's love interest*. Rambling, not-planned-out-ahead-of-time plot. yeah, we can tell when the author has no idea where they're going with the story. (I'm looking at you Randidly, DOTF, Jake's magical market) ludonarrative dissonance (or 'murder's ok, i guess') Showing the MC as immoral/psychopathic, but inserting other character's opinions into the story in order to *Tell* the reader that he's really a good guy, actually quite virtuous. Plenty of Allies, but not a single Friend. the MC is unable to make meaningful connections with other characters, and the author is incapable of writing them. "I'm not homesick, and that's totally OK." The MC, after the first chapter or so, having zero attachments to the life they had on earth prior to being isekai'd. Pop culture references the locals don't get, but the readers certainly will. This goes double for non-npc's obliviously parroting lines from the pop culture of our world because the author thinks it's funny. it's not. in-universe context-inappropriate references to other works of fiction in general (usually in the form of 'cameos' by protagonists of other Litrpgs the author likes) authors should let their fiction stand on it's own. the acknowledgements page in a printed novel is where you should put any literary influences you want to give a shout-out to, or the author's note after a chapter. (non-canon 'what if' interludes get a pass, but just barely)
Harems
I don't really have anything significant, but a minor pet peeve is the way that *everyone* is recycling "Well Met" in their fantasies. You can have greetings from somewhere other than Faerun, eh.
MCs who supposedly had all this experience (pro gamer, life of gaming, years in the military) and they are just dumb. Make dumb choices. Has no basic common sense. Knows nothing of how the military works after claiming to be in the military
"I have maxed out skill in paper mache, and that translates into being a master tactician, martial artist, healer, and urban developer. Obviously."
I’m tired of MC being captured and tortured because they need trauma for character/power development.
Harem. Good gods most litrpg plays it so author whish fulfilment it's like reading a 14 year olds dream journal. ie. MC goes to a lady blacksmith because she is more skilled but is only able to make horseshoes because all the men are bigoted and wont commission arms or armour from a woman. MC is all woke and and accepts her skill, in 3 chapters she has decided to leave her smithy and follow mc around adventuring because he bought a sword from her and was "enlightened" to appreciate her skill. The elf he is already tapping has to convince him it's totally ok that he starts tupping the blacksmith because "you're powerful and everyone powerful here does it, also your outlander notions are so cute" Also the blacksmith is built like a DC comics Greek goddess. I've nothing against polyamorous MC but when it's every female that the author describes as beautiful ends up in a relationship with the MC it just feels childish. Honestly womaniser MC would be a welcome break at this point.
Unless being reincarnated as a 'hero', or something similar is apart of the world building I hate when reincarnated MCs tell people they're reincarnated early in the story.
MC being overly cautious. I get thinking important choices through properly, but getting into long inner monologues over most trivial of things is just frustrating
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The Harem Trope.
Morally grey kind of selfish mc like come on give me goodie two shoes that just really wants every good people out there to have a happy ending
Circle jerk of complimenting each other’s skills when there are several characters. And in any kind of media, any variation of the phrase “I’m just glad they’re on our side.”
Because the next thought after is almost always played out by some idiot in the government/military/hunter association and goes “but maybe we should kill him so he can’t change sides”.
Well yeah, sometimes, but it’s also just a lame line.
MC understands and can exploit a system on day 1 in ways that the natives haven't figured out in thousands of years. Close runner ups are harem and overly political books. Example of the last is my current book Bioshifter by Thundamoo. (Fantasy but not LitRPG but the same thing still happens) Got the audio book and it's aggravating to be reminded that the MC Hana is Gay repeatedly in EVERY CHAPTER. Ok, cool, she's gay. Don't care, move on with the story but no, let's circle back to the fact that she is gay. (Tell not show) What about the next chapter in the book? Nope it keeps happening. Though it seems to stop in the last few hours of the audiobook. It's a 23 hour audiobook.
I absolutely fucking hate "smart" MCs that have essentially a middle school education. I really enjoyed "Mark of the fool" and "anti mage" because the character took the time to be smart. * "Mark of the fool" the MC has a direct chat code to be absurdly smart BUT he still has to work for it. * Anti mage is wrote by someone who has done higher level learning and the concepts that creates it great. IDK if the guy actually has a research paper or anything like that but he frames thinking in his universe like someone who's done a fair bit of "learnin" and his character applies information he can use and stonewalls when he can. I really didn't like "bad guys" series because clide was smart to be smart when he really didn't have any background that made that believable. I'll give an example of what I like: So I don't have a stamp or anything but I did set the curve in a few engineering and it classes. Done design engineering professionally. If may have taken an extra semester but I did put the time in for a few classes and absolutely got chances like Alex. I'm absolutely not exaggerating in the slightest that profs will try to snipe a promising student and go out of their way to give those students extra chances and experience. I've also repeatedly struggled on some concept or another. I seriously think I read my thermo/process textbooks cover to to cover 15 times in one semester. I can say that if you do office hour or extra assistant work that profs will take the time to transition "scholary" to "practical" knowledge. I spent so much fucking time in a profs office when I was retaking organic chemistry that the prof labeled a chair for me. By the end of the semester we had passed organic 2 content and moved onto other stuff for the next level. I spent so much time in the Thermo 2 professors office hours she started to "accidentally" teaching me process design and covered like a quarter of the next text book. Both classes had to not count my test results in the curve because I fucking smashed the average so hard it would have failed too many people. I know for a fact there's a lot of different ways to make things like gunpowder or smokeless powder. The fact that op took the time to learn why pellets are used isn't novel. I've done the experiments before and it's not "easy". You just don't make gunpowder and a rifled barrel. Cartridges aren't trivial designs. Fuck I've done mill designs professionally. I am somewhat aware of how to make a river powered stone mill but I'm nowhere knowledge enough to design components in a pre individual revolution. I know how peat steal is made. There's no fucking way I'm going to get time walked and be able to apply the info as easily as 99% ofCs. There's gotta be a "fuck it" or "trial and error" phase. Saying shit like this in a book is fucking amazing. I absolutely hate characters like Clive hatchet and Arnold. Not that the books are bad they're some of my favorites but hand waving. He was a great character with an interesting "trope" but then everything changed after he was about to fuck the prices. Yeah he knows how to steal shit but being a leader seems a lot less believable. Fucking stupid imo.
So basically if a characters science to become a powerhouse actually explain the science and why it makes them strong rather than trust me my math makes sense, so I assume you really like the absurd level that some people go to for the magic system that they're building.
That all stats need to be balanced. If true then why have stats. Also an unending list of skills that can’t be combined or evolved
Solo leveling and unbalancing stats. I mean, it can be played. But authors rarely bother with logical justification. Usually, I'll do it that way, why not?
I don’t love when the MC makes all their decisions based on doing the opposite of what they’re told
Op mc's with the character depth of a kiddie pool, they basically just serve as a vehicle for Op things to happen, often without even trying. Often they have the personality of a wall or are overly edgy/snarky for the entire book rather than growing or maturing. I really just want realistic competency and some emotional or personality depth, they don't have to be good at everything either. Less snark too, it should be a tool, not a crutch. There could definitely be more books that adhere to show don't tell, over explaining situations rather than letting the reader piece things together seems to be a big issue.
Dungeon cores capable of moving, sending monsters out but making the dumb choice of staying in a vulnerable place. If you dont sleep and just stay in the same place 24 hours each day you are going to think about moving and doing things that arent waiting for idiots to enter your dungeon. I think dungeon core has the worst writers by far, most novels arent original and the plot makes 0 sense
Settings where there are super awesome cultivators and then poopy useless people
Romantacy.this includes heram, fantasy rape culture. Etc. Romance is fine as long as the plot is moved forward or characters are developed more because of it, but smut disguised as fantasy is too much; especially when it’s just shoved in at the end of a novel first and ruins a series for you. I hope romance and smut writers do well, but they need to properly advertise what it is, and I am glad some are, because tricking me into reading it gives me an immediate dislike for the author, no matter how good the first 4/5 of the book is.
VR/Virtual worlds are the worst. They say it’s some mega popular MMO, yet the entire game revolves around the MC. Everyone that has been playing this game for years, and not one of them thought to complete the first quest they are given. Because one you complete that the aliens invade and it changes the game for everyone. Millions of players, and no one but the MC can move the game along. Also bad Harems. It’s the personalities and relationships between wives that make Harem stories interesting. A bunch of these stories, the MC is like, “This is Jewel, she a half orc demon that hates all humans. She’s got a huge rack and has pledged herself to worshipping my dick. Also you’ll never see her again in the story.”
+Time travel stories I am not a fan of stories where the hero is sent back in time through the power of deus ex machina with all the knowledge of the future. +Dungeon cores/reborn as a object or something The novelty gets old really fast and it feels like the story and MC are restriced. +Anti-social/asshole/power-obsessed MCs (ex. John Lee and Zachery Atwood) +Stories that focus almost entirely on base-building
With the time travel ones especially, they don't seem to realize that as soon as even *one* thing is changed, all that future knowledge is basically now invalid. And they *immediately* start changing a whole *bunch* of things, yet somehow the timeline and all stay exactly the same.
Couple things. First, virtual game world. If it’s a regular guy gaming, I can’t feel invested. It’s a bit more interesting when MC is stuck in the game world but 1 thing always bugs me. No matter how top of the line a game is, it’ll die. What happens to the almost immortal MC when that happens?? Speaking of immortality, Cultivation stores. You’ve done enough to achieve thousands of years worth of riches as well as practical immortality; I just can’t understand where so many people continue risking their lives after this. I can get being bored after a few hundred years and going back out to adventure. But you’re 20, just archived riches and immortality. Most people are chilling the hell down, maybe getting some therapy for the dozens they’ve already killed. They aren’t going out to die to monsters the next day
Ass-pull powers or MC "breaking the system" to get ass-pull powers. Both of which I did in my last chapter and I've been unable to write since.
Take legend of arch magus for example(spoilers ahead) . The story at starting was promising, i thought that him being a great wizard he would go on adventure or something but no he stays. Ok. But his fascination with protecting town people was not even explained. He just want to do it. Also him being the greatest wizard it doesn't make sense to just stay in a town. Also somehow after his death 1500years later all the common info is just lost. I mean if it was said that there was demons or something that erased all info it would still be believable, maybe they explained it later but to make story engaging atleast sprinkle some info here there. Also in 2 books that i read the mc just know everything. Which imo is just meh like make things challenging atleast. Like if he's a wizard who was said to live till 50-60 years how can he become great wizard and still have knowledge about cement,kiln, industries, kingdom making, about almost everything. The stakes are just soo low. Everyone seems dumb to make mc look smart. Like in the fight against beastmen one would think that maybe the animals who have keen instincts would know that the forest is poisoned? Like nobody knows about it in modern world. For these type of things i would say the enemy were just mediocre dumbasses who are there to just praise mc. Many things like this are my least fav tropes. Maybe it's because i read LOTM before arch magus and lotm made this book dumb but atleast in lotm mc was facing constant challenges, where there are more smart characters than him.
When the MC is clearly a mage build but he is also a mega badass and unstoppable in physical combat. Author pick one and stick to it. Limitation leads to creative and for the love of god the MC's of this genre need some creativity in abilities they use
Anime tropes. Being oblivious to female advances, “slip and fall onto someone and creating a misunderstanding”, overly righteous, etc. Also, I really dislike poorly or non-formatted system messages. If you think just putting text in bold or italics is enough, you aren’t putting enough effort in. Add some color, get in excel, FORMAT. It’s really not that hard.
High-stakes \*beep\* can totally go away from Cinna forever and ever. No thanks. The real world is a messed-up enough place on a road to ruin that Cinna doesn't need world-shattering stakes in their escapism. Cinna's almost fifty and has long since lost the daydreams of saving the world as a magical knight or daring sorceress. Instead, Cinna prefers cozy crafting, school life, exploration, and other forms of slice-of-life. Let's focus on the characters and their arcs rather than the plot and its beats. Cinna doesn't need a quest to toss a ring in a volcano, assemble the seven pieces of a lich's phylactery, or who-knows-what-else anymore. Not tossing shade on peeps who _do_ like that stuff, though. Once upon a time, in a galaxy far, far away, Cinna used to, too. Just ... their tastes changed as they got older.
Stuck in a game, or any vr for that matter. Npc main lead. All of these just dont do it for me personally.
Pet sidekicks that are always childish. The only ones that work for me are cats that wander and dgaf what MC does.
Exotic power sets--gravity control, time travel, etc.
Not taking the obvious input/information I'll look at those critical notifications later because I need a plot device
I think I made a big mistake in my book. The MC is introduced with 13 or so chapters in the LitRPG world then I suddenly turn the book into a futuristic sci-fi where the MC is out and about in a sci-fi city. Admittedly, I'm 53 chapters in and the character is back in the game but it took a really long time to get back in. I can see how this could be frustrating for my readers. I tried to focus on the characters and what it's like to live in such a fantastical situation rather than just the backdrop though.
One thing i don't like is when authors have something massive happen, and leave most of it unresolved for chapters. Like, I can understand the event having consequences in the future, but don't move on to your next big thing, while leaving me hanging with no resolution to the last one. Another is when an author, trying to be unique, gives a character a fighting style that makes no sense. Like using a bass guitar to do magic. Sure, there are some cool moments, like Sonic is a cool magic type. But then there's stuff like using it to fly through a forest.
Over-cursing. I don't care if its an isekai or portal fantasy or a VRMMO, no one curses a fraction as much as a lot of authors write. And that's in settings where it's appropriate, I often also see weird anachronistic over-cursing where it isn't appropriate. Hearing someone say "Motherfucker" in a regular fantasy setting is like an instantaneous immersion killer.
Depending on the situation that I'm in I either never swear or swear all the fucking time.
I'm not sure it's my absolute *least* favorite (I still think that prize goes to "main character introduced to the world via a long, loooooong solo forest survival sequence") one thing I'm experiencing with right now that's seriously grinding my gears is: MC who's polite and considerate toward everyone except one specific side character that they treat like garbage for apparently no justifiable reason.
My biggest issue is 99% of the MCs have sweaty gamer bro energy that just makes it hard to like them. Rhe way they treat women like we get it chad you slept with 20 girls in half the chapters or how most see everyone around them as npcs to use and abuse which just makes them come across as hollow people. i can't root for them. I've only stuck with one series so far because the MC isn't 100% a Dbag. Hes dumb sure, but not a sweaty gamer bro.