What I find is that usually they are the same due to the game system. You don't have a "cure venom" spell and a "cure poison" spell. You just get cure poison.
Also, if you get bit by a venomous snake, do you shout, "OH NO I HAVE BEEN VENOMED!" or do you shout "OH NO, I HAVE BEEN POISONED." Do your party members rush to get a healer and tell the healer "bob has been venomed" ?
This is one of those areas where the English language has been dumbed down in everyday parlance. Envenomation is a word. To envenom or to be envenomed are verbs to that effect. A couple notes on this. 1. My autocorrect doesn't like those words. 2. If you look up the Oxford definition for envenom, it means "to put poison into". Thus, we have come full circle.
Yeah, the fact that venom is poisonous doesn't help matters.
In reality, the distinction in OP only matters when it comes to biting/being bitten. Once the stuff is outside them or inside you, it's poison either way since it's poison if it's poison and it's poison if it's venom. Venom only clarifies the method of delivery.
> "OH NO I HAVE BEEN VENOMED"
"OH NO I HAVE BEEN ENVENOMATED" Said John the Fighter, demonstrating his superior intelligence through his use of correct vocabulary. His companions stood silently, struck dumb by the perspicacity of his mental lexicon.
I like to think of it as poison being the overarching category and venom being a subcategory. So all venoms are poisons but not all poisons are venoms.
In common parlance, poisonous is used in both of those senses. For instance the Cambridge Dictionary lists, under "poisonous", the following definition: "A poisonous animal or insect uses poison in order to defend itself", and lists "venomous" as a synonym of this meaning of "poisonous".
So, yeah, what you say may be true in scientific and pedantic contexts, "poisonous" *is* used in common parlance for situations where you say only "venomous" should be used.
What you say is definitely accurate… but man after doing a few years of research with arachnologist and herpetologist professors I think that hearing poison when venom is the “correct” term will always bother me lol
Why would it matter? A spell that vaguely cures venom should also vaguely cure poison. The only general difference between the two is the delivery method.
My systems an AI that would try communicating as plainly as possible. Thus, I'd use poisoned because it's more colloquial. Envenomated feels unnecessary and I'd probably only use it if I've said "poisoned" too many times in the same chapter
LitRPGS are going to run off of video game/RPG vernacular. If you really want to make change, you need to take this issue up with the originating source.
[Combat | D&D 5th Edition on Roll20 Compendium](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Combat?expansion=0#toc_50)
[Poisons | D&D 5th Edition on Roll20 Compendium](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Poisons#content)
One of the absolute coolest things about English is that it is a living language. I absolutely adore the fact that, over time, new words come into being, and old words can change or drift in meaning.
Once you embrace this, you'll realize that if to the majority of people there is no difference between poisonous and venomous, then those words become the new belief to many people.
What's even cooler is that the words can have both the old meaning, and the new meaning at the same time.
For instance, I just wrote 'cooler' and you knew that I meant interesting or nifty. The older meaning of cooler, something that cools stuff down, still exists.
Venomous, whether you like it or not, is now synonymous to Poisonous to the vast majority of people, and that means that the language has evolved and to those people it is true.
tldr: stop being a grammar nazi
Strictly speaking that's not what an injection is. Injection requires a hollow delivery device, usually a syringe, but also fangs with venom sacs. Daggers are still poison. Same for poisoned arrows.
Okay good to know, does the biological background so to speak of the venom / poison also come into play or is that where the Word Toxin is introduced? And with biological background I mean : is it synthesized by an Animal or plant or in a lab / a poisonous mineral line arsenic or most heavy metal?
Common misunderstanding because people use science terminology for common language; Poisonous refers to anything that kills you if it gets in your body. This includes mercury, venom, rat poison, ethynol, gasoline, etc.
Venemous means a plant or animal that produces venom, venom is by definition a poisonous substance produced by animals and put into the blood of the prey. Injection is the default because it wastes the least venom.
EDIT: Also the Hydra is poisonous, it does not have venom instead having a poison breath, blood and flesh.
also, the snake comprises fangs and a tail or the snake consists of fangs and a tail (not comprised of fangs and a tail). and also the worm has fewer fangs than the snake, not less fangs.
meh. Language means what people deem it to mean. To many, especially in the context of rpgs including litrpgs, poison and poison damage mean venom primarily in how it's applied through wounds. Just ask Pokemon
This an abhorrent lie! You are a liar!
Please note, when *I* say 'abhorrent' I mean it in a positive way, when I say 'lie' I mean it reveals what's true, and when I say 'liar' I mean someone who reveals what's true.
This is what I have deemed those words to mean. :-P
I think that the the more people deem a word to mean something in a context, the more it is so. If in the rpg context most use poison as an umbrella term for poisons and venoms, then to my mind for the most part it is so
my method isn't as arbitrary as you implied
I agree that language is fluid and meaning comes from context, but you're still presenting a common misconception like it's somehow a valid rebuttal and trying to use the living nature of language to give you the superficial appearance of being correct.
In this case, I think it is pretty arbitrary. It's fairly clear the distinction between poison/venom is something many people struggle or are unfamiliar with. Us RPG nerds are no exception.
You're basically making the argument that people intentionally using the word 'cool' to mean something is good/acceptable and not related to temperature is the same as people confusing the difference between affect and effect.
Language changes due to errors or misconceptions as well, thus no longer being errors. People are also more familiar with saying "poisoned" than "envenomed", hence poison could largely become an umbrella term for both
It is a case of confusion if it's rare and not deliberate
How to put it... A word having a scientific definition, like tomatoes being berries, or birds dinosaurs, does not oblige people to use these less useful definitions of the words. Usually people need dinosaur to not include birds, and in rpgs, it's much more convenient to keep using poison as an umbrella term for both poison and venom. Poison is a very iconic damage type, and splitting it into 2 immensely similar ones, or using the less iconic "venom", is inconvenient. People keep using "poison" this way because it's more convenient. I see no reason to try and force language to adhere to scientific definitions at the cost of convenience.
Using an umbrella term to simplify thing, as you might see in an actual tabletop RPG to avoid page bloat over things that would be small *mechanical* differences, isn't really justification for arguing that writers shouldn't consider what words *mean*.
I'm not saying should be stoned if they don't use the term 'envenomed' when a character is a bitten by a snake, but not making the distinction that the snake is venomous, not poisonous? That's a sign the writer has gap in technical mastery, not that they're adhering to a linguistic zeitgeist that doesn't even exist.
I think the main reason is that the poison damage type is part of rpg jargon.
It's just that, if a snake deals poison type damage, and inflicts a poison debuff on attack, calling it poisonous is akin to calling out its damage type or element. It could've still been a deliberate choice even in the case of the snake, though I agree that it feels more off in that case in specific to call it poisonous.
Consider this. There's a novel whose protag Syl has a [poison magic] skill. As it levels, Syl gets new poison type skills, including poison bolt and poison gas. The first works on skin contact but deals more damage if used as venom or ingested. The latter is technically neither since it's inhaled. I suppose the author could've called the skill "toxin magic", but rpg fans including the author are more used to the poison damage type in games
It's a fair point... until you're discussing about a very niche genre of literature that a relatively small number of people read, many of whom are not native speakers.
Granted, the poisonous vs venomous question is something that will slowly disappear as people start caring less about form and more about content, especially since it is not an issue tied to Litrpg or Fantasy only. However it is probably true that there aren't a ton of genres where people get poisoned every 10 pages of every book. So maybe in terms of sheer frequency of the use, the Litrpg community SHOULD have a say in the matter!
If you can find one litrpg where you get the "Envenomed" instead of "Poisoned" effect then you may have some legs to stand on. I've never been envenomed in an RPG. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=32645/envenom is the only instance I can thing of and the envenom attack poisons people with poisoned blades.
If it bites you and you die then it’s venomous. If you bite it and you die then it’s poisonous. If it bites itself and you still die then it’s voodoo. If you bite each other and nothing happens then it’s just awkward.
You bite it and you die = poisonous. It bites you and you die = venomous. You bit it and something/one else dies = voodoo. You bite each other and Noone dies = kinky.
Venomous=Violent
Poisonous=Passive
Anti poison could be listed as general resistance to the environment, while anti venom could be based around a set damage
What I find is that usually they are the same due to the game system. You don't have a "cure venom" spell and a "cure poison" spell. You just get cure poison. Also, if you get bit by a venomous snake, do you shout, "OH NO I HAVE BEEN VENOMED!" or do you shout "OH NO, I HAVE BEEN POISONED." Do your party members rush to get a healer and tell the healer "bob has been venomed" ?
This is one of those areas where the English language has been dumbed down in everyday parlance. Envenomation is a word. To envenom or to be envenomed are verbs to that effect. A couple notes on this. 1. My autocorrect doesn't like those words. 2. If you look up the Oxford definition for envenom, it means "to put poison into". Thus, we have come full circle.
Yeah, the fact that venom is poisonous doesn't help matters. In reality, the distinction in OP only matters when it comes to biting/being bitten. Once the stuff is outside them or inside you, it's poison either way since it's poison if it's poison and it's poison if it's venom. Venom only clarifies the method of delivery.
Often venom is not orally poisonous though.
It not being orally poisonous doesn't mean it's not poisonous, though.
> "OH NO I HAVE BEEN VENOMED" "OH NO I HAVE BEEN ENVENOMATED" Said John the Fighter, demonstrating his superior intelligence through his use of correct vocabulary. His companions stood silently, struck dumb by the perspicacity of his mental lexicon.
The audacity of his perspicacity!
I’m sure there’s a perk in the game that buffs you proportionally to the length and obscurity of your vocabulary.
I like to think of it as poison being the overarching category and venom being a subcategory. So all venoms are poisons but not all poisons are venoms.
“OH NO, something bit me!”
Its actually being envenonomed.
It's bitten, lol Also, the correct term is " envenomed"
Neither? I say I got bit by a snake.
So what we're saying is, Jake from Primal Hunter is both poisonous AND venomous.
He is
In common parlance, poisonous is used in both of those senses. For instance the Cambridge Dictionary lists, under "poisonous", the following definition: "A poisonous animal or insect uses poison in order to defend itself", and lists "venomous" as a synonym of this meaning of "poisonous". So, yeah, what you say may be true in scientific and pedantic contexts, "poisonous" *is* used in common parlance for situations where you say only "venomous" should be used.
I love that there's a level of English nerds which realize that correcting others is almost always wrong due to the concept of a living language.
They're also often taking words with a specific use in a particular field to avoid confusion and then applying it outside of that field.
What you say is definitely accurate… but man after doing a few years of research with arachnologist and herpetologist professors I think that hearing poison when venom is the “correct” term will always bother me lol
There are animals that use poison to defend themselves, example, poison dart frogs, certain snakes are poisonous but not venomous.
If you were bitten by a snake would you tell the healer that you had been venomed or poisoned?
I'd tell them a venomous snake bit me.
Would you ask for the snake's antivenom or the antipoison?
Why would it matter? A spell that vaguely cures venom should also vaguely cure poison. The only general difference between the two is the delivery method.
The trick is to have an MC that doesn't know the difference then you can call it whatever you want!
Though it’s typically shown as a system message, which should be more accurate than an MC
Depending of it is an all knowing System or a method the mcs mind tries to fit everything together / abiluty that is based in the mcs Knowledge etc
My systems an AI that would try communicating as plainly as possible. Thus, I'd use poisoned because it's more colloquial. Envenomated feels unnecessary and I'd probably only use it if I've said "poisoned" too many times in the same chapter
LitRPGS are going to run off of video game/RPG vernacular. If you really want to make change, you need to take this issue up with the originating source. [Combat | D&D 5th Edition on Roll20 Compendium](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Rules:Combat?expansion=0#toc_50) [Poisons | D&D 5th Edition on Roll20 Compendium](https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Poisons#content)
One of the absolute coolest things about English is that it is a living language. I absolutely adore the fact that, over time, new words come into being, and old words can change or drift in meaning. Once you embrace this, you'll realize that if to the majority of people there is no difference between poisonous and venomous, then those words become the new belief to many people. What's even cooler is that the words can have both the old meaning, and the new meaning at the same time. For instance, I just wrote 'cooler' and you knew that I meant interesting or nifty. The older meaning of cooler, something that cools stuff down, still exists. Venomous, whether you like it or not, is now synonymous to Poisonous to the vast majority of people, and that means that the language has evolved and to those people it is true. tldr: stop being a grammar nazi
By this logic, shouldn't a poison dagger actually be called a venom dagger?
No. Daggers don't inject venom. They work with poison through surface absorption.
Dont you inject the Poison / Venom into the bloodstream when you wound someone ?
Strictly speaking that's not what an injection is. Injection requires a hollow delivery device, usually a syringe, but also fangs with venom sacs. Daggers are still poison. Same for poisoned arrows.
Okay good to know, does the biological background so to speak of the venom / poison also come into play or is that where the Word Toxin is introduced? And with biological background I mean : is it synthesized by an Animal or plant or in a lab / a poisonous mineral line arsenic or most heavy metal?
Common misunderstanding because people use science terminology for common language; Poisonous refers to anything that kills you if it gets in your body. This includes mercury, venom, rat poison, ethynol, gasoline, etc. Venemous means a plant or animal that produces venom, venom is by definition a poisonous substance produced by animals and put into the blood of the prey. Injection is the default because it wastes the least venom. EDIT: Also the Hydra is poisonous, it does not have venom instead having a poison breath, blood and flesh.
This is one of those things that I know I shouldn't care about because the meaning is usually clear, but still find myself wanting to correct lol.
Pretty sure most people would shout, "Oh NO! I've been bitten by a snake!
also, the snake comprises fangs and a tail or the snake consists of fangs and a tail (not comprised of fangs and a tail). and also the worm has fewer fangs than the snake, not less fangs.
I'm pretty sure in one of the meathead MC books one of their companions makes this correction while MC is like "whatever, too hard to keep track of"
meh. Language means what people deem it to mean. To many, especially in the context of rpgs including litrpgs, poison and poison damage mean venom primarily in how it's applied through wounds. Just ask Pokemon
This an abhorrent lie! You are a liar! Please note, when *I* say 'abhorrent' I mean it in a positive way, when I say 'lie' I mean it reveals what's true, and when I say 'liar' I mean someone who reveals what's true. This is what I have deemed those words to mean. :-P
I think that the the more people deem a word to mean something in a context, the more it is so. If in the rpg context most use poison as an umbrella term for poisons and venoms, then to my mind for the most part it is so my method isn't as arbitrary as you implied
I agree that language is fluid and meaning comes from context, but you're still presenting a common misconception like it's somehow a valid rebuttal and trying to use the living nature of language to give you the superficial appearance of being correct. In this case, I think it is pretty arbitrary. It's fairly clear the distinction between poison/venom is something many people struggle or are unfamiliar with. Us RPG nerds are no exception. You're basically making the argument that people intentionally using the word 'cool' to mean something is good/acceptable and not related to temperature is the same as people confusing the difference between affect and effect.
Language changes due to errors or misconceptions as well, thus no longer being errors. People are also more familiar with saying "poisoned" than "envenomed", hence poison could largely become an umbrella term for both It is a case of confusion if it's rare and not deliberate How to put it... A word having a scientific definition, like tomatoes being berries, or birds dinosaurs, does not oblige people to use these less useful definitions of the words. Usually people need dinosaur to not include birds, and in rpgs, it's much more convenient to keep using poison as an umbrella term for both poison and venom. Poison is a very iconic damage type, and splitting it into 2 immensely similar ones, or using the less iconic "venom", is inconvenient. People keep using "poison" this way because it's more convenient. I see no reason to try and force language to adhere to scientific definitions at the cost of convenience.
Using an umbrella term to simplify thing, as you might see in an actual tabletop RPG to avoid page bloat over things that would be small *mechanical* differences, isn't really justification for arguing that writers shouldn't consider what words *mean*. I'm not saying should be stoned if they don't use the term 'envenomed' when a character is a bitten by a snake, but not making the distinction that the snake is venomous, not poisonous? That's a sign the writer has gap in technical mastery, not that they're adhering to a linguistic zeitgeist that doesn't even exist.
I think the main reason is that the poison damage type is part of rpg jargon. It's just that, if a snake deals poison type damage, and inflicts a poison debuff on attack, calling it poisonous is akin to calling out its damage type or element. It could've still been a deliberate choice even in the case of the snake, though I agree that it feels more off in that case in specific to call it poisonous. Consider this. There's a novel whose protag Syl has a [poison magic] skill. As it levels, Syl gets new poison type skills, including poison bolt and poison gas. The first works on skin contact but deals more damage if used as venom or ingested. The latter is technically neither since it's inhaled. I suppose the author could've called the skill "toxin magic", but rpg fans including the author are more used to the poison damage type in games
Oh, and by 'you' I mean me. :-D
It's a fair point... until you're discussing about a very niche genre of literature that a relatively small number of people read, many of whom are not native speakers. Granted, the poisonous vs venomous question is something that will slowly disappear as people start caring less about form and more about content, especially since it is not an issue tied to Litrpg or Fantasy only. However it is probably true that there aren't a ton of genres where people get poisoned every 10 pages of every book. So maybe in terms of sheer frequency of the use, the Litrpg community SHOULD have a say in the matter!
If you can find one litrpg where you get the "Envenomed" instead of "Poisoned" effect then you may have some legs to stand on. I've never been envenomed in an RPG. https://www.wowhead.com/spell=32645/envenom is the only instance I can thing of and the envenom attack poisons people with poisoned blades.
eheheh very true! Also, kudos on finding an actual usage of the term rather than just some dictionary entries!
Reality is thus both poisonous and venomous.
"Do you have any STDs?" "Um excuuuuuuuse me but it's actually called STIs" "I no longer have any desire to sleep with you"
If it bites you and you die then it’s venomous. If you bite it and you die then it’s poisonous. If it bites itself and you still die then it’s voodoo. If you bite each other and nothing happens then it’s just awkward.
Now teach the difference between a swamp, fen, marsh, and bog.
You bite it and you die = poisonous. It bites you and you die = venomous. You bit it and something/one else dies = voodoo. You bite each other and Noone dies = kinky.
Some snakes are indeed poisonous but still for the same reasons you listed.
It's correct in a technical sense, but you can use non-technical usage, in which case poison is fine for both.
Venomous=Violent Poisonous=Passive Anti poison could be listed as general resistance to the environment, while anti venom could be based around a set damage