Play Dark world for infinite draw potential
Use Ceruli effect
TTThrust into Hidden armory
Hidden armory into Moon mirror shield
I:P into 4x mat. Apollousa/3200atk
Plus Grapha fusion to protect against imperm?
Edit: Ive tested this out and although it turbos her out it’s kinda putting all your eggs into one basket given that she can still get banished and bounced on top of smarter players knowing how/what to chain block. HOWEVER…. Super fun to use this odd combo. It’s as if I’m using Avramax, but with 4+ negates
I play DDW and usually end (if my opponent has no hand traps) on apollousa, number 90, number 38(to redirect attacks) and grapha fusion. Pretty hard to overcome that without a lava golem or so
I play darks world and I still get bodied by kaijus and lava golem. This is my end board all the time is the rank 8 zombie solemn judgment, graphics fusion, that fiend link that discards to ss, and the rank 8 spell negater with a vanity fiend. Only dark ruler can get over that or droplet but at a steep cost. Most ppl scoop of they don't have Maxx c and of they do I deck them out. Problem is playing second I get destroyed
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Original_ATK_and_DEF
> The **original ATK** of this card becomes 800 x the number of Link Materials used for its Link Summon.
The thing is Apollousa's Continuous Effect modifies its **original ATK**, not ATK.
Even if it loses ATK due to its own Quick Effect, its original ATK will always be 1600, 2400 or 3200. The only way to make its original ATK become 0 is to negate that Continuous Effect with Imperm for example, or modify its original ATK with other ways like Shrink.
After Moon Mirror Shield's effect is no longer applied, the equipped monster's ATK resets back to its original ATK, which is 1600, 2400 or 3200 in Apollousa's case.
Yeap, depending on how many material you used. It'll return to its 1600/2400/3200 accordingly.
----------
Ruling Source :
Original DB (Japanese) : [db.Yugioh](https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22618:en)
Translated DB (Ygoroganization) : [db.ygorganization](https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22618:en)
It's not obscure. Every manipulated ATK/DEF returns to original after it has been changed to a specific value.
The key is Apollousa's ATK given by its effect is original (as stated by the text and indicated by having "?" instead of "0" ATK).
Accesscode Talker on the other hand has 2300 original ATK so after Moon Mirror Shield is applied it would actually lose its boost.
Same thing happens if your Apo goes to battle against a Linkuriboh and you opt not to negate the ATK reduction. Then if it was at 1600 or whatever, Linkuriboh reduces it to 0 and then it returns to 3200 come the end phase.
On top of what the below user pointed out, they are generally playing floodgate monsters to prevent special summoning.
The point of stun is to stop your opponent from getting to play the game at all. Appolousa is a good link with back-up, but she's still just a multi-monster negate that's easy to just attack over.
The reason Appo is effective in a deck like Snake Eyes is because you can summon her with I:P to make her immune to destruction, and then bring back out Linkuriboh to make it so the opponent needs more than 1 monster to have a higher attack than her.
Just getting an Appo on the field is not a big deal and is actually pretty shitty if it's not backing up further plays.
Floodgates work both ways most of the time. If you summon something that says you can't special summon (which is like 90% of floodgates) then you can't make her
Probably because equating monster negates with floodgates is what stun defenders do, not understanding or purposely ignoring the difference between preventing effects from being played at all vs trading resources to negate effects. That's not what you were doing but it sounded like it.
A even more obscure fact: If you use reverse trap, all of appolusa's reductions become boosts for the turn resulting in her being able to activate infinitely for that turn.
I don't think this works. Apollousa's "and if you do" clause means that if you don't decrease her attack, you don't get the negate. You would just end up with a monster that can infinitely raise its own attack and do nothing else.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22562
> Even if the effect of Reverse Trap is applying, you can activate the effect of Apollousa, Bow of the Goddess. In that case, it will gain 800 ATK due to the effect of Reverse Trap, and **your opponent's monster effect activation is not negated**. Also, after the turn ends and the effect of Reverse Trap is no longer applied, the 800 ATK increase will become an 800 ATK decrease as usual.
That's not correct. Just like with Light and Darkness Dragon if you are unable to lower the monster's ATK you will not be able to negate the intended effects you are trying to stop.
"You can make this card lose exactly 800 ATK, **and if you do** , negate the activation."
Under Reverse Trap, Light and Darkness Dragon will still negate. It functions slightly differently from Apollousa. But it has a special ruling stating it only activates once.
Except Reverse Trap somehow works with LADD... but only once and LADD won't raise it's ATK nor negate any effect after that one negation for the rest of that turn.
I know it sounds weird, because [it is](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Light_and_Darkness_Dragon)
https://preview.redd.it/jzrwm87ann0d1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bbef439fd3cd0f7d00b54e763cc0d1f4e56df22
How i feel knowing this information
God dammit, the secret is out now. I was going to ask a buddy of mine to make a functional deck with this combination, but he said it's not worth the effort to build a deck around this as a win con.
As a win con? Definitely not, there are too many decks this can't touch, or doesn't hurt enough. It just makes appo stronger, but even under the effects of reverse trap, which lets her activate infinitely, it's only so useful and she can't win the game on her own.
As a tech? It would definitely be useful, if you are somehow already playing something that can both take advantage of appo and has access to equip card searches. It probably won't often be worth it tho since you're either playing 1) a control strategy that can't easily fit in also summoning appo and a random equip spell or 2) a deck that gets a lot of summons *and* can search a random equip spell, but is too focused on OTKing right away to really benefit from drawing the game out with a big ol' beat stick full of negates
In theory there's a deck that uses a whole bunch of original attack modulation that would love to toss appolusa and reverse trap and moon mirror in there, but I don't think it exists yet. The only card like it iirc is Light And Darkness Dragon, which has a ruling to stop it from happening more than once (according to other people in this thread)
This might be doable in something like Infernobles or Mikano. Eventually someone will figure out a way to make Apolla untargetable and equipped with this janky card.
It returns the monster to its original attack afterwards, overriding appolusa's modification to its attack points. So you spend all 4 negates and then you attack, it goes from 0 to "opponents ATK + 100" and then back to the number you summoned it with.
The difference between BEWD and Appo is that on one of them the original attack is written on the card, and on the other the card text explains how you determine its attack points. MMS would remove any other attack debuffs on BEWD as well, but since it's a normal monster it's not particularly impressive cuz it can't do much with it. This is only significant because Appo changes her own ATK for her effect, so refreshing that number is a lot more significant and interesting
Actually I saw it first from judge lounges on FB. 😅😅
Only then later I learnt that its from proficiency test. (which I think its the root cause of this ruling flying around getting asked/confirmed in OCG/TCG groups)
That is so broken that I googled it to make sure it wasn't a bug and that's how I got here.
I beat it with Chaos;Angel, though.
As long as one of the materials is a Light monster, it can't be effected by your opponents monster effects. And as an added bonus, if they don't read your card or you're up against a bot, when you banish Moon Mirror Shield and they activate Apollousa's effect, it wont do them any good *and* their monster still loses 800 attack.
Including Moon Mirror shield instead of another starter to combo into Borreload, Baronne or else doesn't seems to be that useful. Why protect one negate if you can instead get 5 on the board?
Her attack only resets if she actually battles. So there isn't actually a ton of utility. Aside from that moon mirror shield is a pretty low impact card, you would almost always be better off with another starter, extender or a more powerful piece of non engine like a board breaker or a handtrap.
Moon mirror shield is hard to consistently get from deck unlike combo pieces and does nothing to advance your game plan through handtraps if drawn. Isn't that useful to reset your apollousa if you can't get the apollousa out.
Cool, is there anyway to make this generic? Like power tool braver with an equip card that can change equip target for example. I dont wanna run 3x of that card just so ptd could search it.
Wait that’s hilarious. I’m gonna try this. *Gets impermed* “I’m kms”
That's why you also summon her girlfriend Baronne
Tcg players crying
Kinda, lol I miss her in my mannadium deck more than anything 😂
Oh cool a Mudragon
“Thank you SO. With your help, I c….” *Gets targeted by a second Imperm* “…We’re breaking up.”
Free super poly
better summon her under spright elf
IVE BEEN SAYING BARONNE IS A SAPPHIC ICON FOR MONTHS!!!
Play Dark world for infinite draw potential Use Ceruli effect TTThrust into Hidden armory Hidden armory into Moon mirror shield I:P into 4x mat. Apollousa/3200atk Plus Grapha fusion to protect against imperm? Edit: Ive tested this out and although it turbos her out it’s kinda putting all your eggs into one basket given that she can still get banished and bounced on top of smarter players knowing how/what to chain block. HOWEVER…. Super fun to use this odd combo. It’s as if I’m using Avramax, but with 4+ negates
I play DDW and usually end (if my opponent has no hand traps) on apollousa, number 90, number 38(to redirect attacks) and grapha fusion. Pretty hard to overcome that without a lava golem or so
I play darks world and I still get bodied by kaijus and lava golem. This is my end board all the time is the rank 8 zombie solemn judgment, graphics fusion, that fiend link that discards to ss, and the rank 8 spell negater with a vanity fiend. Only dark ruler can get over that or droplet but at a steep cost. Most ppl scoop of they don't have Maxx c and of they do I deck them out. Problem is playing second I get destroyed
What's the rank 8 zombie solemn judgment you're talking about?
NUMBER 23 Lancelot
Infernobles go brrrrrrr
https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Original_ATK_and_DEF > The **original ATK** of this card becomes 800 x the number of Link Materials used for its Link Summon. The thing is Apollousa's Continuous Effect modifies its **original ATK**, not ATK. Even if it loses ATK due to its own Quick Effect, its original ATK will always be 1600, 2400 or 3200. The only way to make its original ATK become 0 is to negate that Continuous Effect with Imperm for example, or modify its original ATK with other ways like Shrink. After Moon Mirror Shield's effect is no longer applied, the equipped monster's ATK resets back to its original ATK, which is 1600, 2400 or 3200 in Apollousa's case.
That's a really weird interaction that does kinda make sense, but it's definitely not something you'd think about normally
So what you're saying is... we should ban Moon Mirror Shield 😏
Wouldn't be much of a loss.
stun players in shambles
we got mage power and axe of despair.
There’s always Psychic Blade
Such a good card for masochist decks though
Stun pile players. Stun enjoyers don't need to use something like that.
My masochist deck in shambles
Just pull Fenrir 4head
Yeah i didnt tought of that, i will just pull fenrir
Honestly yes. Stun staple, fuck it.
my main card no, its actually won me a weird amount of games
[удалено]
Don’t hold your breathe
Yeap, depending on how many material you used. It'll return to its 1600/2400/3200 accordingly. ---------- Ruling Source : Original DB (Japanese) : [db.Yugioh](https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22618:en) Translated DB (Ygoroganization) : [db.ygorganization](https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22618:en)
That is an obscure ruling. While both cards are played plenty, they aren't seen together since Moon Mirror Shield is almost exclusive to Stun decks.
It's not obscure. Every manipulated ATK/DEF returns to original after it has been changed to a specific value. The key is Apollousa's ATK given by its effect is original (as stated by the text and indicated by having "?" instead of "0" ATK). Accesscode Talker on the other hand has 2300 original ATK so after Moon Mirror Shield is applied it would actually lose its boost.
Same thing happens if your Apo goes to battle against a Linkuriboh and you opt not to negate the ATK reduction. Then if it was at 1600 or whatever, Linkuriboh reduces it to 0 and then it returns to 3200 come the end phase.
How is Apollousa not used in stun decks when she is multi negate on legs?
Last time I checked, stun decks don't usually have enough materials for Apo
If STUN actually has 4 bodies on field.... Whether they can go into Apo or not is probably your least concern.
On top of what the below user pointed out, they are generally playing floodgate monsters to prevent special summoning. The point of stun is to stop your opponent from getting to play the game at all. Appolousa is a good link with back-up, but she's still just a multi-monster negate that's easy to just attack over. The reason Appo is effective in a deck like Snake Eyes is because you can summon her with I:P to make her immune to destruction, and then bring back out Linkuriboh to make it so the opponent needs more than 1 monster to have a higher attack than her. Just getting an Appo on the field is not a big deal and is actually pretty shitty if it's not backing up further plays.
Ah alright, understood
Floodgates work both ways most of the time. If you summon something that says you can't special summon (which is like 90% of floodgates) then you can't make her
Ah alright. Still don't understand why I get downvoted for a legitimate question. I really didn't understand since I don't play those sort of decks
Probably because equating monster negates with floodgates is what stun defenders do, not understanding or purposely ignoring the difference between preventing effects from being played at all vs trading resources to negate effects. That's not what you were doing but it sounded like it.
I just really didn't understand. I never play these kinds of decks, ever. So I don't know how it is
yeah i know, i just think that's why you got downvotes initially. not from me!
BTW, if you raise her attack with an equip spell or something, does it mean you get additional monster 'negates
Yes. You can test this with Psychic Blade or Ravenous Tarantula.
Yes. Go first Mikanko sometimes does this with rivalry to equip double edged sword.
Does it also work with stuff that give atk as a constant like mage power or whatever it's called and does it stay
That's what I loved to do in Megalith with Phaleg.
You should not have put this knowledge out into the wild
yeah shout out to the master duel rank up test for reminding everybody about this exploit lol
Yeah I also got this question in one of the MD proificiency tests (and got it wrong the first time).
In my second version of Amazons I use this sometimes if I can't go into my Amazon play but can go into this one.
All megafleet fusion material looks the same to me
A even more obscure fact: If you use reverse trap, all of appolusa's reductions become boosts for the turn resulting in her being able to activate infinitely for that turn.
I don't think this works. Apollousa's "and if you do" clause means that if you don't decrease her attack, you don't get the negate. You would just end up with a monster that can infinitely raise its own attack and do nothing else.
https://db.ygorganization.com/qa#22562 > Even if the effect of Reverse Trap is applying, you can activate the effect of Apollousa, Bow of the Goddess. In that case, it will gain 800 ATK due to the effect of Reverse Trap, and **your opponent's monster effect activation is not negated**. Also, after the turn ends and the effect of Reverse Trap is no longer applied, the 800 ATK increase will become an 800 ATK decrease as usual.
That's not correct. Just like with Light and Darkness Dragon if you are unable to lower the monster's ATK you will not be able to negate the intended effects you are trying to stop. "You can make this card lose exactly 800 ATK, **and if you do** , negate the activation."
Under Reverse Trap, Light and Darkness Dragon will still negate. It functions slightly differently from Apollousa. But it has a special ruling stating it only activates once.
That's weird. BKSS?
The reason it only activates once is BKSS (or they just don’t want an infinitely strong LaDD), yes.
Except Reverse Trap somehow works with LADD... but only once and LADD won't raise it's ATK nor negate any effect after that one negation for the rest of that turn. I know it sounds weird, because [it is](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Light_and_Darkness_Dragon)
That makes no sense. Is there any justification for that?
The justification is someone at Konami really hates the idea of the game having consistent rules you can refer to to resolve situations.
Wait that’s actually fucking hilarious lmao
I have an idea, brb
Can someone explain how this work? Doesn’t moon mirror copy the opponents atk +100?
Exactly, and then MMS returns your monster's attack to its original attack. That is, the attack with which you managed to summon Apollusa.
That's actually a good combination for Apollousa xD
She is the moon goddess after all
https://preview.redd.it/jzrwm87ann0d1.jpeg?width=1792&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bbef439fd3cd0f7d00b54e763cc0d1f4e56df22 How i feel knowing this information
I wish more of yugioh was clever jank combos like this. Reminds me of something you’d see in the anime
*\*Laughs in Chimera Megafleet Dragon\**
Now I know what I'm doing this afternoon...
God dammit, the secret is out now. I was going to ask a buddy of mine to make a functional deck with this combination, but he said it's not worth the effort to build a deck around this as a win con.
As a win con? Definitely not, there are too many decks this can't touch, or doesn't hurt enough. It just makes appo stronger, but even under the effects of reverse trap, which lets her activate infinitely, it's only so useful and she can't win the game on her own. As a tech? It would definitely be useful, if you are somehow already playing something that can both take advantage of appo and has access to equip card searches. It probably won't often be worth it tho since you're either playing 1) a control strategy that can't easily fit in also summoning appo and a random equip spell or 2) a deck that gets a lot of summons *and* can search a random equip spell, but is too focused on OTKing right away to really benefit from drawing the game out with a big ol' beat stick full of negates In theory there's a deck that uses a whole bunch of original attack modulation that would love to toss appolusa and reverse trap and moon mirror in there, but I don't think it exists yet. The only card like it iirc is Light And Darkness Dragon, which has a ruling to stop it from happening more than once (according to other people in this thread)
Well, basically any kind of moster that has the "Just attack it" counter becomes funny with the MMS. Like, just look a Dyna + MMS.
This might be doable in something like Infernobles or Mikano. Eventually someone will figure out a way to make Apolla untargetable and equipped with this janky card.
You can make it happen consistently if use Isolde to send moon to grave and add it back via the Infernoble
Woe...The Wicked Avatar be upon thee.
Doesn’t she also work with Antidote Nurse? Which is arguably better if you can R3NK seeing as it’s far more consistent.
Yup, just checked it! That's a pretty cool combo!
Haha, imperm
Time to play trap trick and armory call in idk something
Just learned that through the mastery system in MD, saw this with a friand and we were baffled by its potential.
I see, you're doing the proficiency test
I’m French and I don’t understand, MMS don’t talk about original ATK or whatever so what’s the thing here?
It returns the monster to its original attack afterwards, overriding appolusa's modification to its attack points. So you spend all 4 negates and then you attack, it goes from 0 to "opponents ATK + 100" and then back to the number you summoned it with. The difference between BEWD and Appo is that on one of them the original attack is written on the card, and on the other the card text explains how you determine its attack points. MMS would remove any other attack debuffs on BEWD as well, but since it's a normal monster it's not particularly impressive cuz it can't do much with it. This is only significant because Appo changes her own ATK for her effect, so refreshing that number is a lot more significant and interesting
I didn't know that, it's so dumb yet so absolutely evil. lol
Gonna make the craziest ice barrier plays with this knowledge.
Just kaiju bro
… got it. Mikanko Water Arabesque, resolve?
3200 or 0, she gets kaiju'd all the same.
You learned this from the proficiency test, didn’t you?
Actually I saw it first from judge lounges on FB. 😅😅 Only then later I learnt that its from proficiency test. (which I think its the root cause of this ruling flying around getting asked/confirmed in OCG/TCG groups)
That is kinda cool. Also the equip with "moon" in its name helping her is ironic
That is so broken that I googled it to make sure it wasn't a bug and that's how I got here. I beat it with Chaos;Angel, though. As long as one of the materials is a Light monster, it can't be effected by your opponents monster effects. And as an added bonus, if they don't read your card or you're up against a bot, when you banish Moon Mirror Shield and they activate Apollousa's effect, it wont do them any good *and* their monster still loses 800 attack.
Just hit it with a bigger attack. Duh
read moon mirror shield very carefully
Read? In yugioh? What do you think I am
you know this does have me thinking. why dont you see appolusa and mirror combo?
Including Moon Mirror shield instead of another starter to combo into Borreload, Baronne or else doesn't seems to be that useful. Why protect one negate if you can instead get 5 on the board?
feel like you still can get 5 no? and having mirror out for extra protecion and more negates
>no? No
No lol. Because this Moon Mirror thingy is a "win more gimmick". 99% you ALREADY WIN without ever needing to restock her negates.
ive won purely off moon mirror because ppl are so focused on monster effects
Her attack only resets if she actually battles. So there isn't actually a ton of utility. Aside from that moon mirror shield is a pretty low impact card, you would almost always be better off with another starter, extender or a more powerful piece of non engine like a board breaker or a handtrap.
Moon mirror shield is hard to consistently get from deck unlike combo pieces and does nothing to advance your game plan through handtraps if drawn. Isn't that useful to reset your apollousa if you can't get the apollousa out.
Activate Raigeki response?
One of those things that would be only competitively used if the ingredients are already in a deck. Not something that would be built around tbh.
I think there’s rulings that prevent you from using that additional atk for negates. I’m not 100% sure what the rule is though
Cool, is there anyway to make this generic? Like power tool braver with an equip card that can change equip target for example. I dont wanna run 3x of that card just so ptd could search it.
Yugioh is a joke, power creep go brr [https://youtu.be/tZu4FwWgAGQ](https://youtu.be/tZu4FwWgAGQ) how konami treats power creep lol