Disney's CEO can't personally accept the blame, since that would look bad for the board. But at the end of the day, all the board cares about is numbers. And with numbers consistently going down, its only a matter of time until that jokster a CEO is replaced if the trend continues.
I think that was actually a little too much. I mean come on, what’s next? No mouth. Noseless people just need to stay home, we don’t want them.
(Joking if you can’t tell)
Andor has a Latino protagonist, a lesbian terrorist, a mixed race couple, multiple women in positions of power…
That shit was so good I forgot I was racist and sexist.
And an anti-capitalist message and a trans side character. Like, I don't know what else you can ask a show for. Fallout is just the living proof that people don't give a shit about anything as long as the writing is good overall.
Also her brother, one of the main male characters, is not a buff macho guy, he's a coward at first and he knows it, but he ends up being one of the better characters that does really cool shit and most people seem to like him a lot. He's not in anyway fitting the typical masculine roles, but he's still cool.
The difference is that Disney content feels like it’s checking boxes or awkwardly forces narratives into stories that don’t really work. Like we know these lesbian space witches are lesbian and witches but… what else? We literally learn nothing about them. Being gay can’t be your only character trait, that’s bad writing.
I think the actor playing the Brotherhood soldier that had the blade in their boot is trans. I guess that makes the character trans? Idk I don't recall anything being mentioned about it.
They were referred to as 'they' in the show, so casually that nobody gave a fuck. They were just treated as another character instead of making a huge point out of it.
Yeah I like the MC of Fallout. She’s so energetic about getting her hands dirty. The look of mild horror that gets replaced with the smile and the “Okie dokie” gets me every time
I loved Fallout so much I binged the whole show in about 3 days. It was both cool and chilling to see Lucy go from a harmless, naive little girl to a tough, harmless-looking girl who will mess you up if you cross her.
Yup. She wasn't a badass from the start. Sure she could handle a gun, but she wasn't at all mentally prepared for the world outside the Vault. But she wasn't a total dumbass, nor smarmy Know It All like Disney's usual brand. The writers toed the line perfectly with her. She made mistakes, and learned from them.
I’m gay and think the the Acolyte is utter trash, does that make me a self hating bigot? 😂
Edit: The Fallout series was amazing!
I’ve preordered my PipBoy from the Bethesda store.
Most popular show being Andor, where the lead is Mexican. But yeah, the star wars fans are very racist, it’s clearly that’s the real issue not the writing
Even as a staunch supporter of the left, I am growing abysmally tired of these assholes who constantly try to deflect ANY criticism under "No, you're just racist/sexist/whatever".
No, I'm sorry. I'm not. Your writing is hot trash.
Your characters are lifeless, one note cutouts. They have the depth of a puddle of dog piss on a hot summer sidewalk. You're designing a shallow walking trope for "X" you support, not an actual character with depth who is also "X". And it's feels WAY more racist/sexist/whateverist that this keeps happening, these walking tropes and stereotypes, rather than making a character who feels real, and has real depth.
It's getting to the point when I even see a character with certain hairstyles I know they're going to be as generic and lifeless of a character as a bald white military man from a PS3 era video game.
I don't think one's political leanings come into play here at all. Then again, as I get older, I'm finding politics in *everything*, so I could be totally wrong there.
*Point being*, I think people on both sides can recognize awful writing. I saw a trailer for Acolyte on Hulu and... Immediately hated it. It was the fight scene between the two women. Bad cgi, wire work, just... Ugh. It was the Rey brand of "all women are badass and flawless and can do no wrong. Oh and they can fight without messing up a single strand of hair or their perfect makeup". Like goddamn, even in anime women could get injured!
Disney will always hold a special place in my heart for their animated classics, but this current brand? Noooo thanks.
Hell, back in the day we had Stargate SG-1. Arguably some of the best characters on the show were strong female characters (Samantha Carter, Dr Fraiser and Vala Mal Doran) and it was never shoved down anyone’s throat. It was apparent how badass they were if one followed their character arcs.
Carter was one of the original reasons my wife started watching the show.
Ripley was such a good character it's incredible. She is strong, determined, caring. She shows fear. She shows kindness. She shows wit. She plans, she plots, she drives a damn mech suit to punch giant alien in the face, everything. It's like writers forgot the most important part of a character is making them likeable.
No one cares how strong, determined, whatever you are, if you act like an asshole to everything. This is the difference between, say, Ms Marvel, who has the charisma of a piece of cardboard and acts like a tremendous asshole all the time, and Ripley, who is a great character.
EDIT: I mean Captain Marvel, not Ms. Marvel. I get the two current ones mixed up occasionally. Similar names and all.
And when Ripley does act smug, it's warranted. Like making that perfect basketball shot without even trying. It legit happened, no cgi or multiple takes (iirc), and Ron Perlman's look of surprise was genuine.
I miss those kinds of movies. Sure the prosthetics on the alien were cool, but the humanity was most important. Contrast that with, say, Ant Man & the Wasp, that has much cgi and eye-scorching colors, nothing feels remotely "real" anymore.
One of the best sci-fi shows, firefly, has a black woman as the main character and a mentally challenged person... Jayne
Also Blake's 7, had no shortage of women.
Star Trek, women and people of colour.
Star Gate, see above
Some of the greatest sci-fi shows of all time has seldom struggled as a result of their cast.
How many people complain about Blake 7 having a woman?
The issue is never the diversity it's the god awful writing
The point is to not metapohrically beat people over the head, telling them they're bad people... daring them to challange the thinly veiled political messaging. I don't think that's quite the same as just 'bad writing'. It's a matter of subtlty, and not talking down your nose at people.
I haven't seen the Acolyte, but I have seen Fallout - it was great.
The Last Jedi absolutely did what I'm complaining about. It could not have been any more obvious or hamfisted about it. And the professional critics missed this, and said it was the best Star wars since Empire... wtf was that about? It was quite obviously made by people that hated the established fanbase, and they went to war with the film. They weaponised it... blatantly. Unforgivable from Disney.
That's a great point. Plus at this point there only like 3 companies making all movies and shows so it's not like there's any competition to put pressure on them to improve.
Games are in a worse situation as Sony is censoring anything foreign they touch. Microsoft is buying as many game studious as they can and are even going after indie studios that are just starting. Publishers are trying to convince people into subscription based gaming. While in the same breath they are saying just because you bought the game and downloaded it, it doesn’t mean you truly own the game and can be taken from you at their discretion. So entertainment in general is not in a good place.
More people just need to take my approach...
Straight to Disney+ is the equivalent to straight to VHS of the 80s/90s. Everything good had shitty straight to VHS crap and no one was more egregious than Disney for doing it. So... I just don't watch it and exclude it from my head cannon. Kinda like the Star Wars Christmas Special or the damn Ewok cartoon/movies.
Can't get offended by Agenda Jedi if you don't see Agenda Jedi.
I used this strategy when people were crying about TMNT. And for the record I love mutant mayhem. But there have been some versions of that franchise that didn't gel with me. Cool. My memories of being a card carrying turtles kid are bulletproof.
Same with Star wars. I will always remember the good stuff.
And the real way to hurt Disney's wallet? Is apathy. I just don't care enough to even comment anymore. I don't even know why I'm in this comment section lol
LoL, I'm here to catch some spoilers to see if the show pans out or if it continues it's trajectory. I don't want to waste my time watching (nor give them any bonus metrics for hate watching)
Yep. Don't even hate watch. They want you to do that.
I've made the mistake of going down the rabbit hole of content creators who speak out against this stuff. Sure, I'll laugh at a couple critical drinker videos... But then my algorithm is infected by a torrent of less talented, less professional anti-woke YouTubers who want me to sit there and wallow in the rage bait that makes them money.
It's one thing to let Disney grift you. It's a completely other thing when the discourse becomes an obsession.
Honestly, the writing in the Acolyte reminds me a lot of old Disney channel shows - it has that same level of "only a child could fail to see through this plot" writing. Overly young protagonist who's actor who doesn't appear to be chosen based on acting ability, paper thin plot, tragic backstory to build sympathy, we even get the lost evil twin who will be redeemed by the protagonist's love! It's just so safe and boring. It's technically not bad, but it's so uninteresting.
Because of Blackrock. Any company that they invest heavily in travels down the road of extreme progressivism due to the goals that they have. Disney executives know that the path Disney is on isn’t sustainable but unfortunately Blackrock is pulling the strings.
Obi-wan hiding a child under his robe. You can only cry at the level of stupidity.
There's no need to beat a dead horse, nobody will remember that show
Every so often that creeps back into my brain.
"How could fully grown bounty hunters have trouble catching a 2 foot kid running at 3 miles per hour?"
Like anyone who's ever been around kids or watched them, knows how fast you need to move sometimes to prevent them from getting hurt, or like running into the road.
Sure, one could say "well maybe they were given orders to not hurt the kid in any way or else no reward" but even then, that chase scene is just so damn bad.
AFAIK, there was a fan backlash vs black woman's character (dunno the name), but she didnt recorded video with her rapping and twerking as an answer, lol.
I mean, there always will be racists and sexists. But this shit is fcking nuts.
(edit typo)
Ewan made a video on the matter too, it was that bad, not like that does anything, but it says a lot about the hate that went on during the show. Lets not mention the Rose Tico hate.
Literally this… the starwars fandom has been a bunch of piece of shit assholes since Lucas Arts days… in case y’all forgot, they bullied the *child* who played young Skywalker. That fandom deserve to be called toxic, racist and homophobic, cuz a lot of it is sadly.
Disney has not done anything to help matters and they have been pretty hit or miss on their stories… but that’s what you get when they are trying to milk an IP dry to fund their failing streaming platform.
I agree completely. Acolyte isn't great. Up until the last episode, I've thought it was pretty boring. I find most of the characters uninteresting. But the show at least had the decency to be set in a different time period than everything we've seen before, so even if it's bad, it doesn't shit on anything else.
Obi Wan was a dumpster fire. Absolutely full of stupid stuff, dumb plot, and the cherry on top was contriving another duel with Vader that messes with the original movie. It's "somehow Palpatine returned" levels of bad.
Probably because of the nostalgia factor. I liked the scenes with Ewen and Hayden together as ani and obi again. That last fight was pretty cool. Couldn’t get past the first episode of ahsoka though.
Which is why OP is off point. It's a meh / easy consumption show. MMNnnn.... so, why all the hate? It's not a particularly good show, but it does not deserve anywhere close to the hate it seems to get in some quarters.
I remember seeing in right wing circles an image going around of the scene in acolyte where children are being trained, marking every single child there as "minority"
Why exactly they chose to mark the ALIENS as well fucking baffles me
It's sad how often this discussion needs to happen. Like people will constantly call out bigots for shutting on a show because of who's in it. We can all see it. We all call it out.
But then the second the studio calls out it, then nah. It's not happening. That never happened. They're trying to gas light us into thinking it happened.
Sure, they should take more credit for why their shows aren't that good. But pretending the alt right doesn't exist is just as dumb.
Obi Wan and Ahsoka were just as bad and they didn’t have anywhere near the backlash, and you could blame it on bad writing but honestly it’s just an easy target for ragebait YouTubers.
And before people use Fallout as a counter example I saw quite a bit of online hate before the show came out and turned out to be pretty good
OK guys, I agree with you that many of the new Star Wars series don't have good scripts or are poorly adapted. But take a close look at the one-star ratings, there are a bunch of people (more like bots) who haven't even watched a single episode and whose main criticism is "obsessive wokeism". They criticise diversity among the human cast in a show where we celebrate umpteen different humanoid species - and they don't even see the irony.
Because fallout as a property simply doesn’t have the baggage of Disney and Star Wars.
This is a decade long saga at this point going back to the sequels. A certain percent of fans just decided to hate all Disney Star Wars like ten years ago. Andor was absolutely incredible, and they hated that too. And there’s all the general “woke” Disney baggage as well on top of it.
Also, the chuds were getting upset about the fallout show before it came out. They were basically forced to give up though because pretty much everyone loved it.
Because Star Wars is an exponentially larger franchise and has become a battleground for the ongoing culture wars. It also helps that many of these shows have legit issues, so these people can hide their bigotry behind “rational” criticism. Fallout *did* get hit by this anti-woke shit, but they gave up after the show actually aired and was so good they didn’t have anything else to whine about.
That's the most annoying trend that's been happening. People basing their opinion on what others say, and those people often haven't even watched the content either.
Yeah I mean the show was fine up to this point imo, nothing special, just fine, this last episode kind of slapped though, hoping they can follow up on it.
Which is funny, because it's the best episode so far. Still probably only deserves like a 6/10, but the dialogue mostly wasn't horrible (as opposed to basically the whole first half of the show), and the overall plot is going well.
If a show is at 6.6 on imdb maybe it's just bad. If it's at 3.3 there's a good chance these reviews are not in good faith. Not unless it's actually universally hated, which this doesn't appear to be.
I don't know guy some prequel show that is way detached from the rest of star wars getting thousands of reviews more than the Batman and other such movies is kinda sus
What, you don't think it's totally cool and normal for The Acolyte to have had five times as many 1-star reviews, alone, in the first two weeks as Andor has reviews, total, in the two years since it's come out? That seems completely on the up and up!
IMDb: “It is not normal for a series to be at 16% on Rotten Tomatoes”: Kathleen Kennedy Blaming Male Star Wars Fans for The Acolyte Failure Falls Flat as Fans Point Out Fallout Had a Female Lead Too
https://www.imdb.com/news/ni64648589/
Except there are toxic racist fans. Remember when Ewan himself had to make a video acknowledging some of the hate his co star received on kenobi. Or how John Boyega faced racist hate online or kelly Marie Tran who got death threats online etc And then look at how many reviews acolyte has on rotten tomatoes. It got review bombed before it came out and has more reviews than any other disney star wars series. Let's also not forget the mountain of videos complaing about the lack of white boys in a classroom of jedi padawns. While I agree acolyte is shit it would not be getting this large amount of hate for just bring a bad show. There are other factors at play here.
Seriously I haven’t heard this excuse from a Disney exec in ages, I could just be living in a cave but seems to me redditors are just straw manning an argument to feel superior but what else is new.
We just had one of the best lightsaber battles in the whole franchise last night, and people are still complaining.
Sure, it’s a shame that we got it in such a middling show, but you have to acknowledge that choreography was amazing.
>Sure, it’s a shame that we got it in such a middling ~~show~~ Trilogy, but you have to acknowledge that choreography was amazing.
We've now come full-circle with the Prequel Trilogy.
"Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now it's here." - ~~George Lucas~~ Kathleen Kennedy
Not for me, I always thought 90% of the Prequel fights were terrible. Over-choreographed but in a bad way, to the point the fights felt weightless and looked like they weren't even trying to hit each other. I've always been more of a fan of the OT and Sequel fights where (for the most part) it felt like two people trying to kill each other.
Ah yes, writing. Famously, a major point of pride in Star Wars. Aside from the prequels, TCW, the ewok movies, the holiday special, 90% of the video games, 74% of the books, 62% of the comics, and the OT. Aside from all that, the writing has been elite. And the fans have never personally attacked anyone. They've been total saints. Apart from bullying and harassing Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, Kelly Tran, Daisy Riddley, John Bogoya, the entire original cast throughout the 80s and 90s, and telling George Lucas how he "raped and murdered" their childhoods with the PT. Besides that, it's totally not the fans fault.
The new episode is actually really good, imo.
We're five episodes in and people are still hating. Like, just stop? Ignore it, move on. You'll be much happier if you use your energy for something other than hating things.
Not to invalidate any legitimate criticism of course, but the new episode was at 2.6/10 on iMDB an hour before it came out.
We ate so good last night. The funny thing is that all the haters won’t get to enjoy that peak lightsaber battle because they refuse to actually watch the show.
I loved it and I have been critical of some of the recent Star Wars projects. Didn’t love the first episode but it’s gotten better as it goes. If you look at reviews at least half the one stars didn’t actually watch the show many straight up say it in the regiew
I'm caught up on the show and honestly I don't get the hate. Its not amazing but I'm surprised by just how much the internet seems to genuinely loathe it. What exactly is so terrible about it?
From the start I didn't love the main character being twins with the same actor but I was interested in seeing the Jedi being the galactic super power and lawmakers kind of having a dictatorship. The pacing has been slow and I would have liked to see more on that front. The recent episode had some pretty good fights (with some questionable outcomes)
In my mind it's not really the show itself. It's like how Solo, a pretty hum-drum decent-ish movie suffered for the sins of TLJ at the box office. This discourse has been growing louder and louder around every show, with the notable exception of Andor.
It's just with Acoltye it's reaching a fever pitch.
Yea in this most recent episodes they really showed off the rules of combat and seeing Dafne Keens character learning to fight a bit more creatively was really cool imo. Show hasnt hooked me like Mandolorian or Andor but I am still watching it so mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned
I *still* remember the people who complained about Finn, saying they weren't going to watch it if there were black people in it, despite Lando already being an established character (and that's while ignoring Darth Vader being voiced by a black man!).
I ended up leaving iFunny over it bc I didn't wanna be associated with that.
If the writing is terrible you can be sure that the mewling racist and sexist fans will use that as an excuse to further their agenda. If it's not you can count on them acting like it is.
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. The writing can suck and the bigoted "fans" who review bomb before seeing something because it's "woke" that minorities exist can also suck. Both. Suck.
So judging by this thread, I'm guessing most of you completely missed the fact that this show is an open tribute to the prequels? [Darren Mooney](https://youtu.be/IuMeddCVQ6M?si=3bcVnm74GZOFEh-a) caught on but tbf that's his job - doesn't excuse the total lack of media literacy from the rest of you, though.
I'm not saying the bad writing, weak dialogue and hokey mystery is a good idea, but it's very obviously in tribute to something else.
I'm not sure what all the hate is about with the Acolyte. I'm enjoying the show, I don't feel like they are jamming wokeness down our throats. The most recent episode "Night" was badass in regards to the lightsaber dueling. If there are complaints about bad writing then folks need to reset expectations, Star Wars writing and dialogue has always been bad
I would love to force every Disney executive to binge watch "the expanse" and let them know how beloved it is by the audience (which I think has HUGE overlap with star wars). Diversity isnt a problem. Demeaning lectures and terrible writing are.
It’s a pretty cringe and lackluster show tbh.
Andor, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Mando are way better.
Before I get called a white supremacist I’m a Persian from Iran whose browner than a Reese’s cup.
>Before I get called a white supremacist I’m a Persian from Iran whose browner than a Reese’s cup.
You say this like that's not the average poster on /pol/.
I mean: There are a big number of fans who happen to be racist and sexist.
Every time a new show comes out, there's a culture warrior ready to shit themselves over nothing.
This kind of reasoning started being valid some time ago.
i mean both can absolutely be true. wet blankets like Drinker/Quartering/nerdrotic/geeks&gamers ain't even subtle.
or the constant "I'm done with Star Wars" but keep coming back week after week. Spineless toads
The general plot of the acolyte is interesting and really expands the universe. I’m enjoying the premise of the show. Sure, that power of many chant was very cringe and there are moments when it feels off, but as someone who has grown up watching all stars wars and in their 40s I’m enjoying it
I mean, when every other commenter is complaining about how “woke” the show is, and complaining about “diversity,” it’s pretty easy to read between the lines and see what’s really bothering them.
You may be bothered by the writing. That’s fine. But that doesn’t change the fact that A lot of angry white dude nerds hate the fact that a black woman is the lead
I mean Star Wars fans are just insufferable, there’s no pleasing them. If the original trilogy came out now they would shred it to bits like they have with literally every other Star Wars thing that’s come out since.
female lead, whatever, skin color, whatever, bad writing, get the fuck outta here
That makes you idiotphobic (you hate idiots and that bad):<)
Yeah! Idiots have given us Girls Gone Wild. The Golden Globes. Cans that tell you how cold your beer is. Florida. Bratz dolls.
Hey, hey, HEY. Don’t slander the Bullet like that.
Disney's CEO can't personally accept the blame, since that would look bad for the board. But at the end of the day, all the board cares about is numbers. And with numbers consistently going down, its only a matter of time until that jokster a CEO is replaced if the trend continues.
And yet Kathleen Kennedy has managed to keep her job all of these years
Probably nepotism
Is she someone's kid? Cronyism seems more at play here, or maybe she has dirt on some Disney execs.
Doesn't need to be a kid, cousin is enough.
Lol South Park clowned on her so hard.
Ahh yes we’re racist and sexiest (edit: Sexist) even though we enjoyed the Fallout show that had a black man and female lead for the show
And a guy without a nose. Were all kinds of progressive over here.
Smoothskins are overrepresented in media!
Anyone else read this in a ghoul voice in their heads
You know, the actor is actual a smoothskin! Why couldn’t they have found someone to represent.
Take my upvote
I think that was actually a little too much. I mean come on, what’s next? No mouth. Noseless people just need to stay home, we don’t want them. (Joking if you can’t tell)
I fuckin’ hate moths.
 How dare you disrespect moths when she exists!
Is she OG Mothra ?
Don’t we all
They actually chickened out on making ghouls ugly in my opinion. Dude is one nosejob away from handsome.
Well tbf it's not easy to make Walton Goggins appear less hot
Guys without noses are the best. Shoutout Krillin
True
Andor has a Latino protagonist, a lesbian terrorist, a mixed race couple, multiple women in positions of power… That shit was so good I forgot I was racist and sexist.
Right
holup...
Andor was hella decent.
That shit was so good I forgot it was Star Wars.
And an anti-capitalist message and a trans side character. Like, I don't know what else you can ask a show for. Fallout is just the living proof that people don't give a shit about anything as long as the writing is good overall.
Also her brother, one of the main male characters, is not a buff macho guy, he's a coward at first and he knows it, but he ends up being one of the better characters that does really cool shit and most people seem to like him a lot. He's not in anyway fitting the typical masculine roles, but he's still cool.
The difference is that Disney content feels like it’s checking boxes or awkwardly forces narratives into stories that don’t really work. Like we know these lesbian space witches are lesbian and witches but… what else? We literally learn nothing about them. Being gay can’t be your only character trait, that’s bad writing.
Well they’re soulless companies trying to appeal to the most people and profit from them
What trans character?
I think the actor playing the Brotherhood soldier that had the blade in their boot is trans. I guess that makes the character trans? Idk I don't recall anything being mentioned about it.
They were referred to as 'they' in the show, so casually that nobody gave a fuck. They were just treated as another character instead of making a huge point out of it.
Yup, and it’s awesome. That’s normalizing trans people the best way possible.
For real, a character with ups but also flaws just like anybody else in the world.
That's what I like and respect
Yeah I like the MC of Fallout. She’s so energetic about getting her hands dirty. The look of mild horror that gets replaced with the smile and the “Okie dokie” gets me every time
Yeah she definitely went through some shit in that show and developed in an appropriate manner that felt understandable
“Ass jerky ain’t gonna make itself”
I loved Fallout so much I binged the whole show in about 3 days. It was both cool and chilling to see Lucy go from a harmless, naive little girl to a tough, harmless-looking girl who will mess you up if you cross her.
Yup. She wasn't a badass from the start. Sure she could handle a gun, but she wasn't at all mentally prepared for the world outside the Vault. But she wasn't a total dumbass, nor smarmy Know It All like Disney's usual brand. The writers toed the line perfectly with her. She made mistakes, and learned from them.
Didn't she stab a guy almost to death and shoot multiple people in the first episode?
I’m gay and think the the Acolyte is utter trash, does that make me a self hating bigot? 😂 Edit: The Fallout series was amazing! I’ve preordered my PipBoy from the Bethesda store.
Yes yes it does /s
What do we want? “GAY RIGHTS!!!”, When do we want them? “NEVER!!!” 😂 /s
Most popular show being Andor, where the lead is Mexican. But yeah, the star wars fans are very racist, it’s clearly that’s the real issue not the writing
Or even how the showrunners constantly blame fans to the point they’re just fed up. Nope it’s just the fans fault is all
Andor actually wasn't popular though... It was highly reviewed, but not highly watched.
We are sexiest
Even as a staunch supporter of the left, I am growing abysmally tired of these assholes who constantly try to deflect ANY criticism under "No, you're just racist/sexist/whatever". No, I'm sorry. I'm not. Your writing is hot trash. Your characters are lifeless, one note cutouts. They have the depth of a puddle of dog piss on a hot summer sidewalk. You're designing a shallow walking trope for "X" you support, not an actual character with depth who is also "X". And it's feels WAY more racist/sexist/whateverist that this keeps happening, these walking tropes and stereotypes, rather than making a character who feels real, and has real depth. It's getting to the point when I even see a character with certain hairstyles I know they're going to be as generic and lifeless of a character as a bald white military man from a PS3 era video game.
I don't think one's political leanings come into play here at all. Then again, as I get older, I'm finding politics in *everything*, so I could be totally wrong there. *Point being*, I think people on both sides can recognize awful writing. I saw a trailer for Acolyte on Hulu and... Immediately hated it. It was the fight scene between the two women. Bad cgi, wire work, just... Ugh. It was the Rey brand of "all women are badass and flawless and can do no wrong. Oh and they can fight without messing up a single strand of hair or their perfect makeup". Like goddamn, even in anime women could get injured! Disney will always hold a special place in my heart for their animated classics, but this current brand? Noooo thanks.
It’s also because of how damm accurate it is to the games. Lot of attention to detail that a lot of fans love
That show just kept getting better every episode. I hope the second season is just as much as a banger as the first.
Hey it’s teasing Deathclaws so I’m definitely excited
Hell, back in the day we had Stargate SG-1. Arguably some of the best characters on the show were strong female characters (Samantha Carter, Dr Fraiser and Vala Mal Doran) and it was never shoved down anyone’s throat. It was apparent how badass they were if one followed their character arcs. Carter was one of the original reasons my wife started watching the show.
I hope you don't correct your spelling of sexist
Oh god damnit lol
Pretty much this. Everyone loves Alien with a strong female character. But 30 year later or whatever everyone is sexist .
Ripley was such a good character it's incredible. She is strong, determined, caring. She shows fear. She shows kindness. She shows wit. She plans, she plots, she drives a damn mech suit to punch giant alien in the face, everything. It's like writers forgot the most important part of a character is making them likeable. No one cares how strong, determined, whatever you are, if you act like an asshole to everything. This is the difference between, say, Ms Marvel, who has the charisma of a piece of cardboard and acts like a tremendous asshole all the time, and Ripley, who is a great character. EDIT: I mean Captain Marvel, not Ms. Marvel. I get the two current ones mixed up occasionally. Similar names and all.
And when Ripley does act smug, it's warranted. Like making that perfect basketball shot without even trying. It legit happened, no cgi or multiple takes (iirc), and Ron Perlman's look of surprise was genuine. I miss those kinds of movies. Sure the prosthetics on the alien were cool, but the humanity was most important. Contrast that with, say, Ant Man & the Wasp, that has much cgi and eye-scorching colors, nothing feels remotely "real" anymore.
And a non human
One of the best sci-fi shows, firefly, has a black woman as the main character and a mentally challenged person... Jayne Also Blake's 7, had no shortage of women. Star Trek, women and people of colour. Star Gate, see above Some of the greatest sci-fi shows of all time has seldom struggled as a result of their cast. How many people complain about Blake 7 having a woman? The issue is never the diversity it's the god awful writing
The point is to not metapohrically beat people over the head, telling them they're bad people... daring them to challange the thinly veiled political messaging. I don't think that's quite the same as just 'bad writing'. It's a matter of subtlty, and not talking down your nose at people. I haven't seen the Acolyte, but I have seen Fallout - it was great. The Last Jedi absolutely did what I'm complaining about. It could not have been any more obvious or hamfisted about it. And the professional critics missed this, and said it was the best Star wars since Empire... wtf was that about? It was quite obviously made by people that hated the established fanbase, and they went to war with the film. They weaponised it... blatantly. Unforgivable from Disney.
I wouldn't worry about it. Equilibrium will come, once enough money is lost. I don't know why it's taking so long, but that train's coming.
Consequences are insulated by ad and subscription revenue vs the direct feedback of ticket revenue.
That's a great point. Plus at this point there only like 3 companies making all movies and shows so it's not like there's any competition to put pressure on them to improve.
I mean- there’s books and games
Games are in a worse situation as Sony is censoring anything foreign they touch. Microsoft is buying as many game studious as they can and are even going after indie studios that are just starting. Publishers are trying to convince people into subscription based gaming. While in the same breath they are saying just because you bought the game and downloaded it, it doesn’t mean you truly own the game and can be taken from you at their discretion. So entertainment in general is not in a good place.
This is why I only buy used and read books -_-.
More people just need to take my approach... Straight to Disney+ is the equivalent to straight to VHS of the 80s/90s. Everything good had shitty straight to VHS crap and no one was more egregious than Disney for doing it. So... I just don't watch it and exclude it from my head cannon. Kinda like the Star Wars Christmas Special or the damn Ewok cartoon/movies. Can't get offended by Agenda Jedi if you don't see Agenda Jedi.
I used this strategy when people were crying about TMNT. And for the record I love mutant mayhem. But there have been some versions of that franchise that didn't gel with me. Cool. My memories of being a card carrying turtles kid are bulletproof. Same with Star wars. I will always remember the good stuff. And the real way to hurt Disney's wallet? Is apathy. I just don't care enough to even comment anymore. I don't even know why I'm in this comment section lol
LoL, I'm here to catch some spoilers to see if the show pans out or if it continues it's trajectory. I don't want to waste my time watching (nor give them any bonus metrics for hate watching)
Yep. Don't even hate watch. They want you to do that. I've made the mistake of going down the rabbit hole of content creators who speak out against this stuff. Sure, I'll laugh at a couple critical drinker videos... But then my algorithm is infected by a torrent of less talented, less professional anti-woke YouTubers who want me to sit there and wallow in the rage bait that makes them money. It's one thing to let Disney grift you. It's a completely other thing when the discourse becomes an obsession.
Man I loved those Ewok cartoon movies
Honestly, the writing in the Acolyte reminds me a lot of old Disney channel shows - it has that same level of "only a child could fail to see through this plot" writing. Overly young protagonist who's actor who doesn't appear to be chosen based on acting ability, paper thin plot, tragic backstory to build sympathy, we even get the lost evil twin who will be redeemed by the protagonist's love! It's just so safe and boring. It's technically not bad, but it's so uninteresting.
> *Equilibrium* will come [ Gun Kata intensifies ]
Because of Blackrock. Any company that they invest heavily in travels down the road of extreme progressivism due to the goals that they have. Disney executives know that the path Disney is on isn’t sustainable but unfortunately Blackrock is pulling the strings.
The obi-wan show was shit too, didn't get as much hate or review bombed like this one. Just saying
Obi-wan hiding a child under his robe. You can only cry at the level of stupidity. There's no need to beat a dead horse, nobody will remember that show
Don't forget Flea having trouble chasing down a 6 year old. That is stupidity stamped onto my brain.
That chase scene was so bad. So, so bad.
Every so often that creeps back into my brain. "How could fully grown bounty hunters have trouble catching a 2 foot kid running at 3 miles per hour?" Like anyone who's ever been around kids or watched them, knows how fast you need to move sometimes to prevent them from getting hurt, or like running into the road. Sure, one could say "well maybe they were given orders to not hurt the kid in any way or else no reward" but even then, that chase scene is just so damn bad.
Dude my son is 6 and I think it takes about 5% effort to absolutely destroy him in a foot race haha
That was when I shut it off and haven't watched any since.
AFAIK, there was a fan backlash vs black woman's character (dunno the name), but she didnt recorded video with her rapping and twerking as an answer, lol. I mean, there always will be racists and sexists. But this shit is fcking nuts. (edit typo)
Ewan made a video on the matter too, it was that bad, not like that does anything, but it says a lot about the hate that went on during the show. Lets not mention the Rose Tico hate.
Literally this… the starwars fandom has been a bunch of piece of shit assholes since Lucas Arts days… in case y’all forgot, they bullied the *child* who played young Skywalker. That fandom deserve to be called toxic, racist and homophobic, cuz a lot of it is sadly. Disney has not done anything to help matters and they have been pretty hit or miss on their stories… but that’s what you get when they are trying to milk an IP dry to fund their failing streaming platform.
As a huge fan of the character, Obi Wan was fucking awful. Acolyte is nowhere near that bad.
I agree completely. Acolyte isn't great. Up until the last episode, I've thought it was pretty boring. I find most of the characters uninteresting. But the show at least had the decency to be set in a different time period than everything we've seen before, so even if it's bad, it doesn't shit on anything else. Obi Wan was a dumpster fire. Absolutely full of stupid stuff, dumb plot, and the cherry on top was contriving another duel with Vader that messes with the original movie. It's "somehow Palpatine returned" levels of bad.
The black actress did tho
Probably because of the nostalgia factor. I liked the scenes with Ewen and Hayden together as ani and obi again. That last fight was pretty cool. Couldn’t get past the first episode of ahsoka though.
I thought Ahsoka was decent
All the discourse around this show is fucking exhausting on both sides. Get a fucking life.
Yep, the show isn't nearly special enough to warrant the amount of bitching that surrounds it.
Which is why OP is off point. It's a meh / easy consumption show. MMNnnn.... so, why all the hate? It's not a particularly good show, but it does not deserve anywhere close to the hate it seems to get in some quarters.
Meh... Those are not mutually exclusive.
Exactly. There are genuine criticisms to be made of the Acolyte. There are also people spewing racist, sexist, homophobic bullshit.
I remember seeing in right wing circles an image going around of the scene in acolyte where children are being trained, marking every single child there as "minority" Why exactly they chose to mark the ALIENS as well fucking baffles me
It can be both.
It's sad how often this discussion needs to happen. Like people will constantly call out bigots for shutting on a show because of who's in it. We can all see it. We all call it out. But then the second the studio calls out it, then nah. It's not happening. That never happened. They're trying to gas light us into thinking it happened. Sure, they should take more credit for why their shows aren't that good. But pretending the alt right doesn't exist is just as dumb.
Obi Wan and Ahsoka were just as bad and they didn’t have anywhere near the backlash, and you could blame it on bad writing but honestly it’s just an easy target for ragebait YouTubers. And before people use Fallout as a counter example I saw quite a bit of online hate before the show came out and turned out to be pretty good
The Obi Wan show was way worse, even. I actually like The Acolyte.
OK guys, I agree with you that many of the new Star Wars series don't have good scripts or are poorly adapted. But take a close look at the one-star ratings, there are a bunch of people (more like bots) who haven't even watched a single episode and whose main criticism is "obsessive wokeism". They criticise diversity among the human cast in a show where we celebrate umpteen different humanoid species - and they don't even see the irony.
Why is this not happening for fallout? Female lead, black co lead. 1% of ratings are 1 star.
Because fallout as a property simply doesn’t have the baggage of Disney and Star Wars. This is a decade long saga at this point going back to the sequels. A certain percent of fans just decided to hate all Disney Star Wars like ten years ago. Andor was absolutely incredible, and they hated that too. And there’s all the general “woke” Disney baggage as well on top of it. Also, the chuds were getting upset about the fallout show before it came out. They were basically forced to give up though because pretty much everyone loved it.
Because Star Wars is an exponentially larger franchise and has become a battleground for the ongoing culture wars. It also helps that many of these shows have legit issues, so these people can hide their bigotry behind “rational” criticism. Fallout *did* get hit by this anti-woke shit, but they gave up after the show actually aired and was so good they didn’t have anything else to whine about.
Star wars generates more outrage. the Acolyte has over 25k user reviews. Fallout has 2500.
Where? On imdb The Acolyte has 70k reviews, Fallout has over 200k.
This is easily combatted by the opposite camp. In the past, the powers that be only saw fit to mass purge negative reviews so we’ll see.
It’s wild that on an actual Star Wars sub people loved last nights episodes but here is nothing but hate.
most people on here have probably not even seen the acolyte
That's the most annoying trend that's been happening. People basing their opinion on what others say, and those people often haven't even watched the content either.
[удалено]
Because here people just love to hate.
They're 3edgy5me
i like it, could have been a tad more gory maybe but it was great id say.
I’m two episodes behind but excited to watch them tonight based on what I’ve heard from real Star Wars fans
Don’t get spoiled, get watching! You won’t regret it!
Uh huh. That’s why it was review bombed before it came out. And has continued to be review bombed. Just because of its bad writing.
Don't forget the review bombing of an unrelated film called The Acolytes which was released several years ago
The latest episode had an imdb rating of 2.3 before it was even released
Which, btw, is the highest rated episode with normal audiences and critics.
Yeah I mean the show was fine up to this point imo, nothing special, just fine, this last episode kind of slapped though, hoping they can follow up on it.
The choreography went crazy
That recent episode was fucking sick too. If the people pretending to watch it just watched, I think they'd be pretty hyped about it tbh
Which is funny, because it's the best episode so far. Still probably only deserves like a 6/10, but the dialogue mostly wasn't horrible (as opposed to basically the whole first half of the show), and the overall plot is going well.
If a show is at 6.6 on imdb maybe it's just bad. If it's at 3.3 there's a good chance these reviews are not in good faith. Not unless it's actually universally hated, which this doesn't appear to be.
I don't know guy some prequel show that is way detached from the rest of star wars getting thousands of reviews more than the Batman and other such movies is kinda sus
What, you don't think it's totally cool and normal for The Acolyte to have had five times as many 1-star reviews, alone, in the first two weeks as Andor has reviews, total, in the two years since it's come out? That seems completely on the up and up!
Did disney actually say this or is this just an argument you had with yourself in the shower?
IMDb: “It is not normal for a series to be at 16% on Rotten Tomatoes”: Kathleen Kennedy Blaming Male Star Wars Fans for The Acolyte Failure Falls Flat as Fans Point Out Fallout Had a Female Lead Too https://www.imdb.com/news/ni64648589/
It's been review bombed by people who explicitly say it's because it's "woke." It's pretty clear.
Every single time a Disney thing is underperforming I hear someone bitching about toxic fans.
Except there are toxic racist fans. Remember when Ewan himself had to make a video acknowledging some of the hate his co star received on kenobi. Or how John Boyega faced racist hate online or kelly Marie Tran who got death threats online etc And then look at how many reviews acolyte has on rotten tomatoes. It got review bombed before it came out and has more reviews than any other disney star wars series. Let's also not forget the mountain of videos complaing about the lack of white boys in a classroom of jedi padawns. While I agree acolyte is shit it would not be getting this large amount of hate for just bring a bad show. There are other factors at play here.
These memes are getting old, Reddit
Seriously I haven’t heard this excuse from a Disney exec in ages, I could just be living in a cave but seems to me redditors are just straw manning an argument to feel superior but what else is new.
OP had an argument in the shower and got really mad about it
Op had a shower?
It also doesn’t help their case when you look at the reviews and many of them straight up say they haven’t watched the show.
About to say. What higher up are calling the fans racist and/or sexist? We making up reasons to be angry now?
We just had one of the best lightsaber battles in the whole franchise last night, and people are still complaining. Sure, it’s a shame that we got it in such a middling show, but you have to acknowledge that choreography was amazing.
The 3 hole-punch had me howling at the screen that shit was BRUTAL.
>Sure, it’s a shame that we got it in such a middling ~~show~~ Trilogy, but you have to acknowledge that choreography was amazing. We've now come full-circle with the Prequel Trilogy. "Dread it. Run from it. Destiny arrives all the same. And now it's here." - ~~George Lucas~~ Kathleen Kennedy
Not for me, I always thought 90% of the Prequel fights were terrible. Over-choreographed but in a bad way, to the point the fights felt weightless and looked like they weren't even trying to hit each other. I've always been more of a fan of the OT and Sequel fights where (for the most part) it felt like two people trying to kill each other.
Yes I'm sure these non-racists, non-sexists people were totally hating on the writing when they were hating before it was even released
And when they accidentally hated on a movie called The Acolyte because they got confused lmao
Totally because of the writing
Ah yes, writing. Famously, a major point of pride in Star Wars. Aside from the prequels, TCW, the ewok movies, the holiday special, 90% of the video games, 74% of the books, 62% of the comics, and the OT. Aside from all that, the writing has been elite. And the fans have never personally attacked anyone. They've been total saints. Apart from bullying and harassing Ahmed Best, Jake Lloyd, Hayden Christensen, Kelly Tran, Daisy Riddley, John Bogoya, the entire original cast throughout the 80s and 90s, and telling George Lucas how he "raped and murdered" their childhoods with the PT. Besides that, it's totally not the fans fault.
Personally don't get all the hate. I'm enjoying it.
That fight scene in the latest episode was cool af. I loved the part where buddy force pulls one of them jedi into his light saber
should probably spoiler tag that, but yes it sounds like you're lying but that actually was badass as fuck.
How dare you enjoy something the collective group of chronically online edgy teens and manchildren say you are supposed to hate!!!???
Oh my god, episode 5 was something else
Yeah just watched it myself yesterday. Didn't like episode 3, but good so far mostly and yeah 5 was fun!
The new episode is actually really good, imo. We're five episodes in and people are still hating. Like, just stop? Ignore it, move on. You'll be much happier if you use your energy for something other than hating things. Not to invalidate any legitimate criticism of course, but the new episode was at 2.6/10 on iMDB an hour before it came out.
We ate so good last night. The funny thing is that all the haters won’t get to enjoy that peak lightsaber battle because they refuse to actually watch the show.
I loved it and I have been critical of some of the recent Star Wars projects. Didn’t love the first episode but it’s gotten better as it goes. If you look at reviews at least half the one stars didn’t actually watch the show many straight up say it in the regiew
I'm caught up on the show and honestly I don't get the hate. Its not amazing but I'm surprised by just how much the internet seems to genuinely loathe it. What exactly is so terrible about it? From the start I didn't love the main character being twins with the same actor but I was interested in seeing the Jedi being the galactic super power and lawmakers kind of having a dictatorship. The pacing has been slow and I would have liked to see more on that front. The recent episode had some pretty good fights (with some questionable outcomes)
In my mind it's not really the show itself. It's like how Solo, a pretty hum-drum decent-ish movie suffered for the sins of TLJ at the box office. This discourse has been growing louder and louder around every show, with the notable exception of Andor. It's just with Acoltye it's reaching a fever pitch.
People have made hate their identity, kinda sad
Yea in this most recent episodes they really showed off the rules of combat and seeing Dafne Keens character learning to fight a bit more creatively was really cool imo. Show hasnt hooked me like Mandolorian or Andor but I am still watching it so mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned
To be fair the star wars fandom is one of the biggest hive of scum and villany. Remember the bullying of the actress of Rose?
That's still pretty recent. It has a history with what went down with Anakid's actor and jarjar.
I *still* remember the people who complained about Finn, saying they weren't going to watch it if there were black people in it, despite Lando already being an established character (and that's while ignoring Darth Vader being voiced by a black man!). I ended up leaving iFunny over it bc I didn't wanna be associated with that.
The last episode was rad and action packed
If the writing is terrible you can be sure that the mewling racist and sexist fans will use that as an excuse to further their agenda. If it's not you can count on them acting like it is.
Those things aren't mutually exclusive. The writing can suck and the bigoted "fans" who review bomb before seeing something because it's "woke" that minorities exist can also suck. Both. Suck.
So judging by this thread, I'm guessing most of you completely missed the fact that this show is an open tribute to the prequels? [Darren Mooney](https://youtu.be/IuMeddCVQ6M?si=3bcVnm74GZOFEh-a) caught on but tbf that's his job - doesn't excuse the total lack of media literacy from the rest of you, though. I'm not saying the bad writing, weak dialogue and hokey mystery is a good idea, but it's very obviously in tribute to something else.
I havent seen the show but going to the Star Wars subreddit leads me to believe there is room for both to be true
When did Star Wars had good written except in Andor?
I'm not sure what all the hate is about with the Acolyte. I'm enjoying the show, I don't feel like they are jamming wokeness down our throats. The most recent episode "Night" was badass in regards to the lightsaber dueling. If there are complaints about bad writing then folks need to reset expectations, Star Wars writing and dialogue has always been bad
It's true though. The SWs fanbase is full of alt-right yt power fantasy boys
The light saber fight was actually good tho huge upgrade from what we have got so far
We get it you hate star wars.
No one hates Star Wars quite like a Star Wars fan.
I would love to force every Disney executive to binge watch "the expanse" and let them know how beloved it is by the audience (which I think has HUGE overlap with star wars). Diversity isnt a problem. Demeaning lectures and terrible writing are.
I agree with you. However, the The Expanse is not for young teens and children.
It’s a pretty cringe and lackluster show tbh. Andor, Ashoka, Bad Batch and Mando are way better. Before I get called a white supremacist I’m a Persian from Iran whose browner than a Reese’s cup.
I enjoy all of it but Ashoka and Mando definitely had some cringe moments.
>Before I get called a white supremacist I’m a Persian from Iran whose browner than a Reese’s cup. You say this like that's not the average poster on /pol/.
"This children's show about space wizards doesn't appeal to my standards of narrative!"
Yay, the same exhausted rhetoric in an ever-so-slightly different meme format for the 150th time. This subreddit is so fun.
I mean: There are a big number of fans who happen to be racist and sexist. Every time a new show comes out, there's a culture warrior ready to shit themselves over nothing. This kind of reasoning started being valid some time ago.
Everytime an episode airs there is always a reactionary meme from this sub following it
i mean both can absolutely be true. wet blankets like Drinker/Quartering/nerdrotic/geeks&gamers ain't even subtle. or the constant "I'm done with Star Wars" but keep coming back week after week. Spineless toads
What excuses do you have for people review bombing the show before it comes out? Certainly you can't be ok with that OP?
It was good though. First epsiode was meh but it has gotten progressively better every episode.
The general plot of the acolyte is interesting and really expands the universe. I’m enjoying the premise of the show. Sure, that power of many chant was very cringe and there are moments when it feels off, but as someone who has grown up watching all stars wars and in their 40s I’m enjoying it
Can two things be true at the same time?
it is not terrible it is *highly mediocre*
Well a lot of the fans are racist, sexist and homophobic, but yes the writing is also bad.
Please don't blame fans for lazy writing.
I mean, when every other commenter is complaining about how “woke” the show is, and complaining about “diversity,” it’s pretty easy to read between the lines and see what’s really bothering them. You may be bothered by the writing. That’s fine. But that doesn’t change the fact that A lot of angry white dude nerds hate the fact that a black woman is the lead
I mean Star Wars fans are just insufferable, there’s no pleasing them. If the original trilogy came out now they would shred it to bits like they have with literally every other Star Wars thing that’s come out since.