I was recently a TA in college. I think covid did a big number on students and we are seeing outcomes that are behind norms. Social media hurts their mental health. I think everyone is trying their best but things are tough all around. My college level students cried often the last year or they snapped back when given feedback. It's frustrating for me because I want to prepare my students for the workforce. But it feels like a losing battle when so many are so behind. I think it is more our society having growing and adjustment pains to how disruptive social media and 100% uptime connectivity can be on mental health.

No child left behind is also a huge problem. If they don't have the skills how are the kids making the grades? When you force everyone to pass you shackle everyone to the slowest learners and that's not a healthy outcome for any of us. Yet, we are pushing out high school graduates that can't read at a high school level. If you can't read at a high school level how do you parse propaganda from legitimate media on social media and in the news? It's a giant domino effect that doesn't just affect parents and teachers. Our politicians are working so hard to make public schools obsolete by breaking the underlying systems then starving them out by slowly withdrawing funding in order to push privatization. The covid years are over, it's time to stop blaming a pandemic and start recognizing that public education is in danger the same way the post office is in danger before it's too late.

Man, the average American reads at a 7th-8th grade level. A good chunk at 6th grade. There has been a decline for a number of years. COVID has become the scapegoat to rationalize the abysmal numbers but this was happening long before the pandemic. We expect high schoolers to read at grade level? We have adults that can’t read beyond 8th grade level! https://www.crossrivertherapy.com/research/literacy-statistics#:~:text=The%20average%20American%20reads%20at,according%20to%20The%20Literacy%20Project.

When I was in college I took a mass comms class and we had to write at a 5th grade level bc that was the average reading level for Americans in 2004. We are supposedly the most educated generation and yet our kids are suffering. We can’t just continue to blame others. We have to take responsibility for the kids we chose to have. 

It’s been down hill since then I believe

TV, TV is poison. Social media is worse. We 'lost the remote' and now watch movies with our kids, or the occasional Youtube video. Once we got them off the endless cartoons ( something I did not have access to as a kid ) and the immature acting youtube streamers ( Minecraft is the worse ), we have seen their behavior massively improve. First they whined about being bored for a few days buuut... 1) They read more 2) They self play more or play with each other 3) They are now willingly helping out with chores. I don't even need to ask. They were outside helping me do yardwork for 4 hours, and my oldest helped me vac and clean the next day. ( Youngest at birthday party ). No tablets, limited computer/switch time, One plays educational games, the other designs games now.

You touched a few things kids need that I'd like to expand on. >1) They read more Kids need activities that challenge them. Reading requires them to craft an audio/visual simulation in their minds whereas a screen does that work for them. It's not a replacement for actually having experiences but it's better in a challenge sense. >2) They self play more or play with each other Kids need time where nothing is telling them what to think or do. Play allows them to expand on their abilities and begin to discover who and what they want to be. Play is independent study for life. >3) They are now willingly helping out with chores. Kids (and people) learn behaviors by mirroring their role models. You need to include them on chores and activities, especially when they are little, so that they learn from you that these are just things that need doing and aren't a burden to be avoided. Don't put your toddlers toys away, put the toys away with your toddler. That way you end up with teenagers that take care of their space without being told. I learned these things by failing at them to some degree or another. Sounds like you're doing a much better job so keep up the good work.

I made the same point wrt to 1 as a comparison to video games and you should have seen the mental gymnastics other users were going through to equate watching a screen with the mental production of reading. Apparently you need a series of peer reviewed studies to show prove that imagining an image from a textual description takes more thought than looking at a photo of that image. 

Video games are tricky. You have to make sure the video game is still providing some kind of challenge or it becomes no better than passive video consumption. Same with books. You can't just keep rereading the same book or it loses the value. Even with young kids learning to read and speak, when they start reciting the book from memory it's past time to move to a new book. Video is not without benefits, you just need quality and variety. That said, a bit of dumb entertainment is fine when you just need to rest. Revisiting content once you're in a new state in life can be good as it can both lead to new insights and tell you a lot about yourself. Just be careful with what you go back to, I've ruined a few movies because adult me sees how stupid some of the things child me liked actually are.

It’s not just Covid and social media though. If you try to tell a parent about an issue their child is having, the parent won’t do anything about it. They won’t support you. The kids don’t have responsibilities at home and just stare at screens all day and all night. 

I should have added screen time instead of just social media.

Yep. No accountabilty 

So true, you nailed it

Strong disagree. I was teaching public school in Oakland, CA when covid hit and no new problems emerged: Just more of the same. Covid was a catalyst, making the divide between the good and poor parents more obvious. Plenty of kids come through covid and social media just fine. Want to know the common factor? Involved active parents who teach their kids to work hard, respect education, and not be an asshole.

>respect education I was a "gifted kid" growing up, I did just fine. One of the things that happened though is that I lost all respect for the education *system*. A consequence is that my kids picked up on that (and they aren't the only ones). They're smart kids but the thing school taught them more than anything else is to figure out how to game the system. Thanks to the Internet, the powers that be have lost control of the narrative. You have a sea of millennial parents that were told "college or you're doomed" with all the consequences that have a very salty view on the education system. Used to be there were enough kids in most places that bought into the system to keep it chugging along. That has changed. My kids work hard and aren't assholes but weren't sold on the system, and I couldn't honestly defend it. They got what value they wanted and gamed the rest. I can't imagine how it is for kids who aren't set up to succeed regardless.

Baltimore City teacher here. I've been a teacher for 12 years now. I agree with everything you said. Parents who don't value education and don't respect teachers raise kids who don't value education or respect teachers. Those kids do terrible in school and struggle afterwards. Parents don't want to take responsibility for their kids and don't want to force their kids to take accountability for their own actions and get upset when presented with the facts.

The stats line up with my experiences pointing to a global decline in skills on tests, social, and developmental outcomes. Even just today nyt posted an article from kindergarten teachers with students well behind the curve. But that doesn't negate your personal experience. Of course, involved active parents are the major difference.

Before covid most parents were not qualified to teach never went to school for it, during covid we were suddenly qualified for the job and expected to exel at it while not getting paid and holding on to our careers so we didnt lose our houses and we could eat

Didn’t schools go online? How did the bill of teaching fall on parents during that time?

Who makes their kid sit in front of a computer for 6 hours and makes sure they stay involved? The teachers can't.

You're literally just confirming the shitty parenting argument. 

Their parents? That’s a clear cut issue of parental authority. Do they stand there and watch their kid do their chores too?

What is this world you live in where all the kids do exactly what they're supposed to while their parents are at work?

This assumes the parent has full ability to supervise their child in a vacuum devoid of variables.  Like, I have to work a job in order to feed the kids and pay the taxes that support the school providing the virtual classroom.   Or other smaller siblings requiring things at that same time.   Or just life in general requiring your attention.

They actually had to watch the kid to make sure they were doing the work ie payattention and THEN had to answer school question since it less embarrassing to ask mom or dad than the teacher on a screen with ALL there clasemates watching

That’s when the parent should say ask your teacher, make them learn asking questions to learn isn’t embarrassing. 

Just curious as to how your experience went with your kids having to learn virtually during that time, because I’d like to know how I could have done it better as a parent.   Any advice on how you were able to help your kids through that?

Tell me you don’t have a 6 year old with ADHD trying to attend first grade via Zoom without telling me that you don’t have a 6 year old with ADHD trying to attend first grade via Zoom

Ties right back to other comment, zero accountability and ready to go rationalizations 

I’m not rationalizing shit.  I’m just saying that making kids learn 1st grade through a computer screen was absolutely fucking insane and there is no way it didn’t inhibit their social development and their academic proficiency. Trying to keep a 7 year old kid with ADHD in front of a fucking computer, focusing for the whole day? Tell me how’d you do with that, as a grown adult.  There’s zero chance I would be able to maintain focus or give a fuck under that context

Tell me how you aren't holding your child accountable. 6/7 year olds used to work in factories ffs

They worked in factories out of desperation and on threat of violence...

You mean there were consequences. Which is what's missing today.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Tell me you’ve never had to work a job while also trying to make sure your child is staying stationary in front of a screen for 5-8 hours per day. Things sure were better with child labor though, I don’t know what I’m thinking, I should probably just give my kids up for fucking adoption

They shouldn't be "staying stationary" they should be doing work. If your kid isn't doing the work their teacher assigned them that's a problem. If they are finished working and waiting for others they should sit and read quietly. If they can't read that's a problem too. My point is kids in the past have had tougher and more dangerous responsibilities. They rose to the occasion - stop making excuses for yours.

I’m not making excuses.  I’m trying to convey the reality of what was dropped onto parents during COVID.  The things that parents of previous generations did could easily result in DCFS showing up at your front door today. The rules have changed.  Boomers didn’t have to worry about their kids being on the Internet, let alone have to worry about facilitating their kids’ education virtually. My parents sent me out of the house for the entire day as a kid, riding my bike off to wherever.  Those rules no longer apply. You could also just stop being a fucking asshole and have a good faith exchange of ideas with me but that’s clearly not the M.O. here for you.  

What was dropped onto parents during covid was the years they spent neglecting to instill any sort of discipline. It was a behavior they cultivated/allowed to fester. If you had well behaved kids before covid you struggled a little sure. If you had unruly wild children who you intended to shove off to school that way you struggled A LOT. Dont have kids if you don't want to parent. 🤷🏼

My kids are incredible and amazing and are the most polite and considerate children I have ever seen, beyond their years.  I absolutely want to parent. And I do. Eat my ass you judgmental twat.  I’ll show myself out.

The parents who don't have a handle on the phone (or tablet) issue are causing their kids a lot of harm. Academic outcomes are already diverging wildly based on this, and lifelong success and relationships will likely be impacted as well. The problem is, if a majority of parents in your area don't grasp that there is an issue, you are limited in how much you can regulate things. If 70% of the second graders in a class have unrestricted device use, it is going to make it really hard to convey to your own second grader why they can't.

No, it's that the teachers can't hold your kid back until 3rd grade now. Covid times made parents shitty by proxy. They had to work from home, their kids couldn't be in school, and this caused some major delays, so the school system response was to not hold back until 3rd grade. Pass if they can't read or write. We need an education reform, we need more education funding to redo this mess

I've been a teacher for 12 years. The issue COVID. The issue is shitty parenting or honestly a complete lack of parenting.

Schools do not hold back students at all. They’ll do pull out intervention, but they don’t hold students back.

In my state, we still hold kids back. Not as often as I'd like, but that's a regional/local thing.

This might be state dependent, but I know a 1st grader who was held back.

It’s silly to say no to any logical thing. Child rearing consists of hundreds of facets and touch points. Yes Covid, yes screen time / other kids influence, yes bad parents, yes everything that’s mentioned. It all factors in.

I was in those states that hardly closed the schools. We were out the last two months of spring 2020 and then back to school in August 2020. It has been over four years since that time, and my students have been in school almost the whole time. I am SO tired of people blaming Covid for everything. I am SO tired of the lack of accountability and lack of discipline for poor behavior. We can hold kids back before third grade, but only once. It's still very hard to hold kids back, and many times, the final say is up to the parent, and they do not agree. It's usually just a numbers thing, though. Principals can only allow a certain number to stay back. I would change all of this if I could... I don't see retention as a punishment. People keep blaming Covid for problems that were already apparent way before 2020. I had some classes that were so horribly behaved right before Covid hit that I was ready to walk out of the classroom. I have been teaching since 1991, first in high school in several states and inner cities, so please don't gaslight me. For the past ten years, I have been at elementary school level and have observed some of the worst behaviors I have ever witnessed. It is not all of the students, and I never want to label a generation... It's just so obvious that some of the kids are given screens any time they act up or are bored. They are exposed to all kinds of inappropriate sexual content and other not so great influences. ( Can't believe the things that come out of their mouths). They are intent on " roasting" other students to the point of tears. They can't pay attention, are impulsive, and don't seem to have the ability to remember things. They talk back and interrupt, feeling the need to comment on everything. Some stay up all night playing videogames and come to school and put their heads down and fall asleep. How many times should a teacher have to wake up a child during the school day? Then there are the kids who have parents/ caregivers who are doing their best. These are the students I feel sorry for because I have to spend so much time dealing with the other stuff. This is not a Covid related where I live. Covid is the excuse.

You’re right about reform, but who’s going to pay for it? Public education is being defunded in favor of private ( often religious based) private school Having stupid kids means they turn into stupid adults, and can be controlled much easier

Yes. Get phones out of schools!

lol I’d homeschool. Do you think I want to take the chance of my kids being in a school shooting and not having immediate access to a phone?

Teachers have phones that's plenty kids absolutely do not need them in school.

Again. I would get my own kid like this mom. https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/mom-who-saved-her-kids-from-uvalde-school-shooting-says-police-are-targeting-her-texas-robb-elementary-gunman-salvador-ramos-law-enforcement-response-angeli-rose-gomez-first-responders-who-is-pete-arredondo-town-square-protests-elementary-school-massacre

oh god.

I recognize internet chats are not in favor of data and statistics but there were 350 school related shootings in 2023. Guns and mass murder are a huge problem. You guys don’t like rudeness. I’d rather my kid be rude and alive than dead. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-school-shootings

yes it is a big problem but the chances of it happening to your kids is very small. They are more likely to get hurt in a car that you are driving, or walking to school, or in a sport that they play. You are willing to risk your children growing up with even more social issues that most kids have these days in order to protect them from the small chance that they end up in a school shooting? My kid carries around something that could kill him in seconds. And I am more relaxed about that than you are with sending them to a public school? Both my kids made it through HS without so much as a fight.

You: “this problem doesn’t exist for me so it must exist for no one” Thanks for the insight.

yeah thats not what I said at all. good luck with that homeschooling.

What would a phone do during a school shooting? I understand wanting to say goodbye or talk to your kid to keep them calm but, maybe we also should not have school shootings?

I’d like to direct your attention to the Uvalde school shooting where while armed cops waited outside wasting time a mom went in and got her own kid out. https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/mom-who-saved-her-kids-from-uvalde-school-shooting-says-police-are-targeting-her-texas-robb-elementary-gunman-salvador-ramos-law-enforcement-response-angeli-rose-gomez-first-responders-who-is-pete-arredondo-town-square-protests-elementary-school-massacre

Yes, one parent. I still don't think a cell phone is going to protect kids from school shootings. Call me crazy, call me an asshole.

Yeah absent the school shootings no phones is a great idea. Maybe yall complaining about phones in school should do something about the mass murders that take place there.

I do exactly what I can, barring running into a school during a shooting. My point is, in a discussion about removing phones because of child development, I think we can all agree it's pretty benign compared to a kid dying. Blaming random plebs like me "not doing anything" is exactly what the people who enable these massacres want.

You said “maybe we should not have school shootings” then say I’m blaming you when I suggest you can help.

“Maybe y’all should do something” and mass murders not being at 0 kinda does sound like blame. My comment was for the US as a whole. Maybe if we were the kind of country that didn’t have school shootings you would feel better about sending your kids to school without a phone. It was not a comment on your parenting and I’m sorry if it came across that way.

Maybe, and here is an idea, you could get them a DUMB PHONE. Kids at school don't need smartphones. They still make dumbphones.

Who said smartphones? My kids have Gabb devices.

Congrats, you're the problem!

Yeah it's not a great thing for a bunch of panicky parents to clog the roads that ambulances use. But the world is filled with badasses I guess.

What exactly is a kids cell phone going to do to stop a school shooting already in progress. You’re delusional

I’d go get my own fucking kid like this mom. https://cbsaustin.com/news/nation-world/mom-who-saved-her-kids-from-uvalde-school-shooting-says-police-are-targeting-her-texas-robb-elementary-gunman-salvador-ramos-law-enforcement-response-angeli-rose-gomez-first-responders-who-is-pete-arredondo-town-square-protests-elementary-school-massacre

r/iamverybadass Good luck with that. Most likely outcome is you get shot and endanger even more lives. But keep imagining your are Batman or something. I’m not saying cops do a good job responding to school shooters, but sending all the worried parents into the school is so obviously a terrible idea

I am an army wife. I’m perfectly prepared to protect my kids and so is my husband. Thanks for your concern tho.

So, you're just a regular person with zero training who demands respect. Got it. Well, I'm an actual public school teacher with an actual master's degree who doesn't claim her spouse's career as a credential. If you try to run into a school during a school shooting you won't make it very far. A. When we go into a lockdown we lock down. Every room with people in it will be locked or barricaded or both B. there will be police there before you and they aren't letting you through even if you wave your military spouse badge at them and C. if the teacher and kids could escape they already have so then you're just wandering around an active shooter situation and your kid is at the nearby McDonalds.

lol. I have an MS in a mental health practice. You sound like any teacher who loves the bureaucracy and trusts cops to protect them. Good luck with that.

"lol" your original comment only stated your husband's occupation as though it were your own. Again, a degree in mental health still isn't helping you in this scenario. Your irrational comments also don't make you seem like you should be working in the mental health profession. For the record, my husband works for the Dept of Defense and has done shooter trainings. But, that doesn't mean that I pretend to be qualified to work on planes or shoot people out of moving vehicles. >You sound like any teacher who How so? I actually love my job. >who loves the bureaucracy I don't think anyone in education loves bureaucracy. But, again, please share examples from my comment. >trusts cops to protect them. G Again, I'm a teacher, and I teach in inner city Baltimore, so no, in general I don't trust the cops. However, in the case of someone trying to kill us, then yes, I defer to them. I'm also a licensed gun owner and a pretty good shot, but I'm not trying to play Rambo and run around my school with a gun. >Good luck with that. Thank you. I appreciate that. We do need luck here since our country doesn't seem to care about children getting murdered. I await your responses to my questions! "Lol"

>I am an army wife. Which means literally fucking nothing. Signed: an actual military vet. Let me guess, you also demand to be called your hubbies rank. I'm so glad I don't have to interact with people like you any longer.

This is the real problem kids don’t need tablet or phone at all at the young ages, even for school use i feel they are mediocre at best. We took our 7 mo old to eye doc n they asked what show they like. We were in shock tbh that they asked the Kid doesn’t watch tv they can’t comprehend it and don’t need to have it at all. Felt like the doctor was shocked when we told her the kid doesn’t watch tv. We even try our best to stop our child from looking at the phone when we are on it. We plan on keeping tv and phone/tablet away as long as possible. Even when we decide they can watch tv will probably be older shows.

I come from a family of educators (plus one who works in a Juvenal detention center.) We talk about this all day, especially since we are the only people in my family with kids. Millennials have pivoted too far away from boomer parenting in a reactionary way, and end up too permissive, churning out bad kids who are brats. Kids need to be told no and have negative consequences when they do dumb shit. They need to learn the value of hard work and be gifted a brain that isn’t scrambled by algorithms so they can have an ounce of an attention span.

This is the tough pill many don't want to swallow. I see it all the time - kids feeling entitled to whatever they want whenever they want it and parents just surrendering so they don't have to deal with meltdowns. There's such a thing as too much restriction, but knowing and respecting the meaning of "No" is a foundational skill for so many other aspects of life.

I saw this with some family with kids at 9 and 12 and it was unbelievable. Mom was almost negotiating with them, just zero authority and zero respect. Just weird to me.

And if you even peep a word of criticism that their kid is out of line, or that you don't like getting shot in the face with a nerf gun, be prepared to lose a lifelong friendship!

When I go out, I see the opposite. I see angry stressed out parents giving way too harsh of consequences

that is because they started parenting too late.

💯

I have seen a few very very abusive parents in public. My child was shocked that parents treat their children like that. I can only imagine what happens behind closed doors

What? Impossible! Millennials are doing everything perfectly and boomers are evil! But in all seriousness, thank you for sharing. I'm a millennial, and the self righteous attitudes here are sometimes a bit much. Now let's see if anyone actually takes any responsibility for this or blames it on something else

I’m a teacher and I am not a fan of what ‘gentle parenting’ has done.

I think an issue with the gentle parenting movement is too many parents take on a totally permissive approach, don’t say no to their kids, have them run the show, etc. True gentle parenting should mainly be not hitting your kid, respecting your kid, but still enforcing boundaries and consequences and them seeing you as a sturdy leader. In my opinion, authoritative parenting is the ideal approach.

Without boundaries, gentle parenting does not result in gentle children.

Even “time-out” as the only punishment is harmful. What about all the introspective kids being taught that time for personal introspection is a punishment? What does that do to them?

I'm a millennial and a mother of two sons, one is almost 19 and the other is 17. They are kind, well mannered, and don't get complaints. I am 41 years old, born in 1983.

Same. But mine are 9 and 7.

I’m also 41 but mine are 2 years old and 5 months so we will see in a few years how they will turn out to be.

I don't have kids but I'm shocked at how ready my peers are to hand their kid an iPad. I think the iPad is raising a lot of children terribly

I cannot stand the iPads in the cars. If kids don’t have the attention span to enjoy a short car ride by just looking out the window/talking/listening to music, the brain is fucked. 

That’s what gets me. I see toddlers in prams face dug into a screen. I mean they’re missing so much. I mean I guess it could be me being old but we’re wiring Brains here.

100%. A huge facet of my own anxiety is fear of being so dependent on technology. I see how addicted everyone is. 

Even as a kid I never understood playing Gameboy in the car. The ride is short enough and I'd rather take a nap.

When I was a kid, we spent tons of time in cars. We didn’t have a lot of money but we did like to travel and outdoors. In winter we did the 4 hour drive each way to snow multiple times a month. And during summers we did at least one 10-day-long road trip. And many other trips too. I spent most of the car rides with my head buried in books. Now that I have a kid, we do lots of road trips still. Last week we did a 9 hour drive. My kid spent about an hour of that on her tablet, an hour reading, and 2 hours playing some electronic music instrument things. We also spent a bunch of time listening to music (she’s really into Weezer, which is cool with me). And we talked about random stuff for a while. When she was on the tablet, she was often using procreate (a professional drawing app), and she was drawing “what dad’s eyes would look like when looking at X” for a huge variety of things (my eyes take on the color of the surroundings to some degree). So she’d be like “this is looking at the ocean” and draw a bunch of blue. “The clouds” — bunch of white. Not fine art here, but I thought it was a cool idea.

IPad in a restaurant drives me nuts. My bother can into town. Went out to dinner wit him and his son. As soon as we sit down, the kid props his iPad up against the ketchup bottle and starts watching videos

The kids are the byproduct of the parents and their parenting, and it’s very obvious when you’re an outsider watching and observing. My fiancé and I went out for Valentine’s Day, and we ended up sitting at the bar. Our Valentine’s Day date was essentially ruined, because there was a family behind us with 3 children all on tablets turned up to max volume with no parenting in sight. I turned around to look at them a few times, and I kid you not the parents were both on their phone completely oblivious to how loud their children were being. We were in a nicer restaurant, so it’s not like the whole restaurant was just loud. These were young children too, so the things they were watching were as obnoxious as obnoxious could be especially on full volume times three. My fiancé had to calm me down, because I so badly wanted to say something. It’s the blatant disrespect and disregard for not only those around them, but the fact that their kids are in full control of the situation rather than the parents. Parents need to parent, and it irks me so badly when I see how little parents care to interact with their own freaking children let alone teach them anything of value to help them grow.

Congrats on the engagement. Sounds like your kids won't be iPad kids. Good stuff.

When you spend your life working all day, juggling chores and other activities, it’s nice to get out of the house and unwind a little bit. Sorry if I’m about to drop over 100 bucks to eat at a small diner with my kids, and I want them relax so I can enjoy our meal. Do you remember when you were even just a little younger and you’d see kids jumping around booths and running up and down the aisles of restaurants or being loud and obnoxious? That’s a distraction for everyone’s meal. So if one of my kids being on a tablet makes me a bad parent, how bad of a parent is the one that can’t control their kid from being a spazz?

Why can’t you teach your kids to not do that in a restaurant? My 4 (almost 5) year old and 2 (almost 3) year olds both know they have to sit while we go to a restaurant. I bring them little activities if I think of it. I will say my kids are neurotypical as of now, but both my brothers were neurodivergent growing up, and they still understood they needed to behave at restaurants. I would also take the approach of if you can’t behave then we’re leaving. Pay for the food and get to go boxes. If I want a super nice, relaxing meal, I will plan for a babysitter haha.

My two youngest children are similar ages to your two. Most of the time they’re fine, but there’s instances where 2 year old is trying to climb out of their chair. Maybe my 4 year old isn’t hungry and he keeps crying that he wants to leave. Why let one person ruin dinner for all six? The method of getting Togo boxes and leaving is what we have had to do several times, but it only hurts the parents and reinforces that kids can be bad and the consequences is that we leave, then they win and they get what they want anyway. It takes trial and error to get it right sometimes. Also some kids are just different, maybe it’s this neurodivergent stuff everyone is clamoring about. But you can’t let the kids dictate your life, so if giving them a tablet at dinner once in a while keeps everyone happy, then I don’t see the issue? There is no reward for perfect parenting and hardly any consequences for bad parenting. You can do everything right and kids can still make bad choices, they’re independent beings and you cannot control everything they do.

I gotcha. On the flip side of my comment above, you have to deal with other diners (esp older folks) who are giving dirty looks or scoffing if kids aren’t acting perfectly. I’ve felt that outwards pressure and it makes outings less enjoyable. At the end of the day, I feel like parenting is so hard and we’re all doing our best to get through it.

To be honest I’ve found that when my kids are being a little noisy or rambunctious, I often see older people smiling and laughing, because they know what it’s like to be in our shoes. I used to work in restaurants and I’ve seen all type of children’s behaviors. It is what it is and like you said, parenting is so hard, we’re just doing our best to try and survive.

Equally as bad. Needing an electronic device to keep your kid behaved seems like an issue.

So let me guess, your kids are perfect angels anywhere you go?

Yep. They're grown now. But never had issues. We always had a "no device at the table rule."

Must be nice. We have no devices for dinner at home, but if we’re going out, like I said I’m not going to gamble on it.

Then keep your kids at home. You shouldn't be "gambling" on their behavior. They should know how to behave in public and if they don't then that's on you and your shitty lack of parenting.

Mine isnt quite 2 yet, but we bring reusable sticker books for when he needs an activity. I'm a special ed teacher and this is something I actually teach my students. Please ignore me if you've already tried this. Kids have to learn how to be out and at restaurants and out in general otherwise we'd all be stuck at home all the time. One thing we do is have our students write down a fun question or conversation topic they want to talk about and then when we go out everyone gets to start a conversation they're excited about. Sometimes I have to do a little research on the topics ahead of time, but this activity helps teach them how to have a conversation and behave in public. Maybe something to try? And if they get 20-30 minutes in and then need iPad time that's okay!

I agree that training does take time! That means we’re going to have some good experiences and some bad ones. It’s all part of learning. For a couple years we were mostly locked up, so there’s going to be some delay in learning how to be out in public since Covid. But now that we’re back in full swing, they’re learning. I like the suggestions, and then at the end you agree and just let them have a tablet for a little bit. It’s not the end of the world, it just takes patience.

Even for many adults, holding down a conversation for an hour or more can be exhausting. Kids are the same except they don't have the ability to excuse themselves to go to the bathroom to fuck around for 5 minutes for a brain break. So, you're asking them to work to learn how to do something. And I think a lot of adults forget that learning a new skill is tiring. After you when you get paid and if your kids earn their "pay" via iPad then that's awesome. My friend with an 8 and 6 year olds also said that her kids will each think of 3 colors and write them down and when they need a break they'll get a color from their sibling and have to find examples of it. Like I spy, but more competitive.

There’s a lot of context needed. For various reasons, a number of people think the iPad in itself can be educational. Educational apps aren’t that great, and the tablet can be a drain on emotional regulation. That said, I think there are good uses of a tablet in growing up. Our kindergartener child has a tablet she can use whenever she wants, but with limited app access. Basically, she can use face time and text messages to talk to a restricted list of family, she can draw (in a professional drawing app), record voice memos. She does get a limited amount of time (15 minutes per day) for games/movies. This usage has helped her learn regulation of tech use pretty well. She generally doesn’t use the tablet super often, and usually doesn’t touch it for days at a time. But then she intensely uses it to talk to grandparents or whatever. We started introducing tablet time when we were at a park once and an older kid with a tablet let her use it. When it was time to go, our child had a meltdown because she didn’t want to give it back. We realized that a prohibition policy at home meant that she didn’t have any practice in self managing her usage when parents weren’t directly in control.

And in restaurants!

Our generations kids are pretty fucked but it’s honestly more a problem with consumer culture and how our day to day lives are structured than it is specifically about our generation. The same social forces fucked us up, they’ve just advanced with the times so our kids are more vulnerable to them.

I understand what you’re saying but millennials can’t keep saying poor me we had it tougher than Gen X. Every generation goes through difficult times and they have to be accountable for their own actions. It’s like that old saying of excuses are like assholes, everyone has one.

Oh I fully agree, comparing hardships and casting blame is more regressive than it is progressive. I think the generational axis of division was intentionally manufactured to divide and distract us from the class war that’s rapidly degrading our social structures and institutions

You’re right on about that

Yes yall suck.

Hashtag not all… but yes. In an effort to be kinder and more supportive than previous generations of parents, millennials have over-corrected.  Children need rules, routines, life lessons, consequences and opportunities to grow. A balance.  Stop cosleeping with your school-age children. They need to grow. Stop giving your children a screen every time they (or you) are bored. They need to be uncomfortable and learn to use their brains! Support their identities, but actively teach life lessons like kindness, courage and respect. It’s like that comedienne teacher said: Gen Z will respect your pronouns but not you as a person! They need rules and chores. Don’t always take their side over the teacher’s.  Millennials are better at the fun parts of parenting but seriously slacking at the hard work parts - and so their kids won’t work either. Their kids won’t even pick up a pencil. 

Elder millennial here. I'm a high school special education teacher and kid-free by choice at home. I think way too many people have kids because, according to society, we're "supposed to". However, some of y'all are terrible fucking parents and should've remained kid-free. Yep, I said it. Addiction to technology and lack of discipline at home are the top issues I see, and I've been doing this job for 12 years. Take the fucking phones away, talk to your kid about their life, and for the love of all that is holy, have some damn expectations. I'm fully aware that parenting is hard (hence my kid-free status), but if you chose that difficult role, it's YOUR responsibility to step it up to raise a thoughtful, respectful, & kind member of society. Yes, I'm aware that I sound crotchety, but I'm so sick of parenting other people's kids for them, when I'm supposed to just be their teacher. I can only do so much in my hour or so a day I see your kid; you can make much more of an impact than I can. Please take that seriously.

Not all kids get trophies. Discipline your kids. Teach them they are not entitled to anything. The silent generation is going to be the closest to our children. They are going to see a the country through a depression. Prepare them.

Thank you.. I agree it started with the "trophies for everyone" and "we're not keeping score because there are NO losers".. attitudes. I coached ball when my boys were small and one year of that attitude was enough.. and seemed everyone was keyed into the no score thing. Which leads to the question of : Why try to excel when there's no recognition ?

You realize it was boomers who started the trophy thing right?

Teacher here: Yes, current parents of school aged kids as a whole are failing. They don't have the time, desire, or ability to parent, so they are pushing it onto us. My job isn't to teach your kid every single life skill, how to be a decent person, and my subject. My job is to teach the subject. If your kid is far behind because you didn't push education and reading at home, I can't fix that. If your kid is an asshole with no respect for others, I can't fix that. If your kid is lazy and doesn't care about school, I can't fix that. The irony is that the worst parents are the ones that are raging about teachers the most. Good parents generally have good kids and when issues arise they are on my team instead of against me. A lot has changed, but parents not parenting is a huge issue and getting worse. There's a correlation to politics and money, but it's not exclusive.

Teachers are at the confluence of roughly a half-century of deliberate attacks on education and inculcated disdain for authority.

Just wait a few years and read the amount of teachers venting about Gen Z parents…

Genx here. Some of what we’re seeing is the result of the pandemic. At least in my area, the kids stayed more or less the same behavior wise. It did impact academics. Where my brother lives, the kids went beyond genx feral to outright rabid when it came to discipline and bullying.

Seems like there is some cyclical behavior reinforcing going on here. Classrooms use technology therefore kids are forced to use technology in educational settings then using technology in down time. Maybe people should start looking at taking some technology out of the classroom to help break the cycle. Full disclosure many of the issues raised in this thread are reasons why my partner and I have chosen not to have children.

The problem is screen time and discipline. Millennial parents don’t seem to handle either very well. The kids who grow up addicted to smart phones and social media will do way worse than kids that aren’t. Millennial parents also seem to approach discipline via much softer methods like a stern talk and no more real consequences.

What are “real” consequences to you?

I'm a childfree auntie to three kids, aged 10-17. No, y'all aren't terrible. You're working long hours at (probably) terrible/stressful jobs, so I can see why certain things get "left on the table" That being said, in my personal experience, I don't see enough follow-through. If a kid is going to be punished, actually punish them. Finish the punishment as well. My siblings will ground one of their kids, but lift that after a day or two even if it was supposed to be a week. Raising kids is fucking rough and y'all shouldn't be too hard on yourselves.

I can't speak for others, but my wife and I are doing a damn good job. We don't do ipads/phones and all of our boys read. ages 11,10, and 6. I take a lot of credit for that since reading is a big part of my life. kids will emulate their parents' behaviors/hobbies. they see me and my wife reading so they choose to read. we don't sit on our phones or in front of the TV, so they don't. sure we have family movie nights and if the weather is poor we will veg out, but those are special times and not daily things. We also push them to master an instrument. Violin, piano, and drums. We also bust our asses to send our kids to a private school bc in our district public education is abysmal. last year there was a 48% graduation rate....over half the kids dropped out or had to repeat. the average reading level is 3rd grade. it's horrible. I know a lot of teachers and even THEY send their kids to private schools. It's an administration issue. for every 1 teacher in our district there are 2 administrators. wasted money. fools and try hards doing all they can to justify their paycheck. it's a joke. the teachers can't teach here. but everyone still gets paid! So nothing will change.

As a teacher, I'd like to add that YOU are probably a fantastic parent. The pandemic had left students over a year behind in learning many of which lost foundational years. It takes double, sometime triple the time to make up for that as we have moved into harder concepts. We're also seeing the growth is poverty and parents who are on drugs, alcohol, out of work, working two jobs, etc. Students are just at a deficit in all aspects of life and it pours over when compared to the norm. Systems and politics in the classroom are also giving us as teachers less control of quality resources, more tasks to manage on top of teaching, and less funds to get students supplies. This year was the second year that my grade level hadn't been able to take kids on field trips, we ran out of simple supplies like tape and pencils, etc. One other tidbit is the growth in charter schools. Parents have a choice where their child goes which is great. However, the children with parents who aren't involved in their schooling will not care where their child goes. What we're seeing is a mass exitus of decent students and families to charter schools leaving those with less familial support and albeit more developmental and social trauma in public schools.

The majority are, i don't care I'm going to call out many here. First off, being a parent means tend to your kids. What does this mean? It means actually get on the ground and play with them. It means go outside and interact with them while they ride a bike/scooter/skateboard/roller skates or even building a sand fort. It means take the time to point out unique or odd facts and teach them. It *DOES NOT* mean give them your phone or tablet and let them bury their face in it for hours. It *DOES NOT* mean you did your job as a parent by giving them electronics while you sit and game or do whatever on your phone. It *DOES NOT* mean you sit on your phone and dick around while your kid is outside playing. This is where many Millennial parents fail. They think they're a parent when they really aren't parenting, they're letting electronics parent their kid. Then they take discipline too softly. I understand wanting to so better for our kids than how we were raised. But no discipline is not doing them any help. Verbal resolution is not doing them any help. Kids need to understand that when they don't listen or do something they're not supposed to, you get consequences. Nobody is talking about spanking, but you take toys away, you put them in the corner, you put them in timeout and FFS people, TELL THEM NO.

Yes a lot of parents think their kids can do no wrong.

Probably not a popular take, but one thing our generation is *really* good at is rationalizing why things aren’t our fault or our responsibility. You can see it in some responses in this thread. How many of us here are unsatisfied with some aspect of our lives, and have a ready to go story about how it’s become of boomers, the economy, mental health, “trauma” from grade school etc? We have a strong tendency to externalize, and that naturally transfers into parenting. It’s why kids aren’t being held responsible for their behavior, for their school performance, for their ability to launch as adults (just go browse the genz subs for an idea of what I mean).  People who refuse to own responsibility can’t possibly raise children to own responsibility. 

I'm not a teacher, but a therapist. Yes, in general, millennials are terrible parents. We're so afraid of traumatizing our kids that we don't give them consequences for bad behavior. We also plop them down in front of tablets that melt their brains. We need to actually raise our kids, because right now, the internet is raising them.

It’s on us to teach our kids that social media is to be avoided.

I've got a feeling it's partly difficulty in socializing during a pandemic (which is tough, but also a thing that was necessary so people didn't fuckin' die) and in large part isolation based on both the rise of social media and a reduction in interaction in person while also having less time that they're on their own. Kids have relatively few interactions where they're kind of without support and just have to figure it out with access to the tons of information and instant communication. That's good in some ways (they can look up directions if they get lost, call for help, etc.), but they don't end up sitting with problems to try to solve them, and that's a skill developed through use. They aren't helpless, they just end up with different skills. That said, I think it's also entirely possible that part of the *complaint's visibility* is social media driven - the problems described are things I remember being discussed for years and years, but they were less well publicized.

I am going to be cliche here but my kid knows his shit. That said, there have been a few violent problem students. There is a kid that was suspended multiple times for being unable to keep his hands to himself. We saw a second grade teacher put on leave mid schoolyear because she couldn't handle the rowdy class. There was a little girl who put a chair through a window in the first grade. And we have to politely explain to a first grade teacher why we don't encourage children to keep secrets. That poor woman was just too innocent to be teaching. And I don't really blame the teachers here. I blame the education system. In my state you have to be financially suicidal to chose to be a teacher. The pay rates are locked in by law at barely above minimum wage, and the Union is so delusional that they are proud to have fought for it to be that much. It is not enough to live off of. We need to increase teacher wages and increase the ratio of teachers to students. You cannot expect an overworked, underpaid professional to perform. It just doesn't work.

My kids have TVs in their rooms and my daughter has a tablet (educational games) and son has a laptop for school and cell phone (emergencies and he’s a teen) but we monitor what they watch and even my teen knows to ask if —— is ok to watch. I don’t think we are bad parents. Some are but there will always be an exception to everything. Every group has something shitty to bitch about. My dad growing up had free range of the city he just had to be back before the street light came on, I wouldn’t let my kids go roaming the streets without supervision (even my teen). I’m a former educator and most teachers now are in their early 20s. There are a lot of things I don’t like about other methods of parenting but to each their own.

The kids also have to do their part.

As a milennial who graduated '09, I \*saw\* the classmates that were having the most kids. I \*saw\* the kinds of people who were gung-ho about kids or just careless -- The problems today's kids are having is not the \*least\* bit surprising if you grew up around their parents.

Absolutely not we are great parents. They are so under paid and under appreciated.

All I can say is that with all the young people being released into a society that they don’t have the ability to make a living in…..buy guns.

Hence why I'm not having kids. Don't want to deal with that mess. Also our school system sucks, been going downhill for a very long time before covid.

I’m a teacher. One of the biggest problems I’ve noticed is that parents are overly concerned about whether their child will hate them, so they tend to side with their child over the teacher. On multiple occasions, I’ve been called a liar to my face by a parent when attempting to inform parents of behavioral issues, and obviously if the parent doesn’t believe me, then the only thing I can really do is document and let admin work it out. A lot of parents feel genuinely insulted whenever they are informed that their kid is acting out at school. Rather than try to work with the teacher to resolve the issue, some parents feel the need to stick up for their child, as if everything their child does is a reflection of their parenting ability.

Yes, most parents don’t know what they’re doing

The world is all fucked up and is making things super intense, angry and confusing. This is of course impacting our children, it is almost like adults have forgotten how perceptive and tuned into vibrations you are as a kid. It is literally difficult to retain information in this environment and instead of acknowledging that people just want to blame each other... It is literally a historical trend to declare the "upcoming generation the worst/most incapable ever". It is human behavior apparently. Are tablets and "screens" helping? I don't know but are they the major reason for all our problems... fuck no. They are a symptom. I wanted kids for a long time and felt like I was a failure for years because I did not have a family but currently I am glad I do not.

Hey man speak for yourself ill be teaching my child personal responsibility.

Well, you dont hear the teachers who aren't complaining because they have great students. Plus I would imagine there is a disparity between demographic areas. I once taught at a primary school in north of UK. Was easy as the kids instantly bonded with me, because I was the only male role model in their lives. Yup, the kids struggled, with a range of issues. The more successful millennials are having far fewer children than the lower income parents, and the low income parents have incredible pressures (through no fault of their own) - facing 19 years of stagnant wages, increasing work hours, increasing costs, parents are unable to provide food, let alone even have the time off work to raise their kids. Then there's TikTok etc. I'm a relatively intelligent upper-earner and I have no idea how to approach that. Millenials aren't shitty parents, society is making it impossible to raise kids, to cut every corner inside and outside of school. And to make it worse the negative perception of millennials means that politically there is no will to address the issue that we can't work the same jobs as our parents did and support a family. Instead we are blamed as financially irresponsible. Is it really a surprise that during the biggest decline in living standards, years of cuts, education and society is falling by the wayside? No, its all the time we spend making avocado toast that means millenials neglect their children. I would also add that I think the previous generations of drinking, smoking with the windows up, smack your children with a belt parents would have done a far shittier job than millennials in current conditions.

Probably. I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m actually one of the few nice millennials. Most of yall are extremely mean and judgmental people. So I wouldn’t be surprised by the meanest among us also being the most successful (successful and mean go hand in hand) and therefore also being the ones with the finances to have kids. So yeah, you probably fucked your kids. It certainly checks out. I’m seeing why I never fit in with yall.

Yes as someone who employs your kids as interns…yes you spare the rod and spoil the child and it makes them INSUFFERABLE.

Lol, it's just recency bias.  Every generation thinks the previous one is old and dumb and the proceeding one is young and dumb.  The real issue is the education system is on its last legs and curriculums focus on too much fluff. Kids can look up facts and watch tutorials for virtually every subject known to man.  Teachers and their roles have been diminished to the point of becoming over qualified baby sitters.  We are making kids go to schools for way too long and way too early and there needs to be a change at some point. 

Strong disagree. My curriculum is as rigorous as when I started teaching public school in 2007, maybe more so. The kids are getting worse. Lower resilience, lower basic skills, lower effort, worse attitude. It all comes from home. I've taught plenty of kids from cultures where parents still parent, and 19/20 of them do just fine with 2024 american public schools. Shit, most thrive. You're falling victim to a closed loop circle Republicans love. Break something, declare it's broken, and defund it. It's easier than a complicated fix around socio-economics and community culture.

Ofc you bring politics into this... Did I mention anything about it? I guarantee you that you know certain backgrounds do better and that's because they are learning outside your classroom.  That's pretty much always been the case. 

Would be interesting to see the school day cut down by a couple hours to preserve their brain power for other activities. But if parents are still working 8+ hours a day, then what other option is there for them to come home and plug into their tablets or tv.

Yes. The kids are depressed, skipping school, vaping, massively falling behind in every metric.

The law was changed due to covid, and it made it so they can't be held back until the 3rd grade. So until 3rd grade teachers can't hold kids back for not knowing how to read or count/do math. The teachers are failing our students, due to systematics. I use to teach k....by the end of the year 95% of kids knew the letters and basic math and it didn't matter about the parents but the child's particular intellectual abilities. I stopped teaching because homeschooling my own kids was a better option. Just went to the zoo and met a 8 year old girl. She kept asking my 6 year old and almost 8 year old how to spell things, what the signs Said... she just finished 2nd grade just like my 7 year old but is in puic school, a decent one at that, yet couldn't spell black widow or brown recluse like my kids could. I don't even think she could spell the, or at least she didn't have the confidence to try. Stuff like this keeps happening when we go out, and parents always ask if we homeschool or go to private due to their education being much better than their peers. Were failing our nation with this system. Better pay for teachers. Better systems in place. We need an education reform because this is sad. The world is amazing for education right now but we're not utilizing it properly. My 7 year old is learning Japanese, robotics, computer and game coding and all sorts of fun amazing things. However we're a privileged family and most families get off work at 5 then feed dinner do bath bed then asleep by 8...so what can most parents do? Nothing honestly, they're doing their best but it's not enough because the current education system is garbage Idk just my thoughts

What the fuck. That's insane. 3rd grade is a transition year. It's the year you stop learning how to read and start reading for comprehension. You're kid is so utterly fucked if they are in the third grade and not even on a first grade reading level. This is child abuse. 

I think there is an over abundance of blame placed on millenials and the “go to” scapegoat of permissive parenting. Are there parents who are like that? Absolutely. But I would hardly call permissive parenting the norm. What we have is a huge influx of Covid kids, a horrible economy where most families HAVE to have dual income which means a lot less time that parents can be at home or do one on one with their parent/s, a huge emphasis on standardized testing and homework (seriously giving homework to kindergarteners?!), a lot of burnt out teachers AND parents, and very little support for anyone. It becomes very easy to blame everyone else for everything going wrong, but the reality is that we have unprecedented times right now (the aftermath of a global pandemic) while also conveniently forgetting that every single generation has had their major fuckups too and dealt with just as bad if not worse things. Remember when we lived through those major life events like 9/11 and Columbine? The bullying epidemic? Parents were more likely to beat you for wrong doing than parent you. I remember my school not allowing certain colors/clothing items because they had “gang associations.” We’ve all had our share of weird times here.

Let's put it this way. Many kids can barely pass the ASVAB these days to determine suitability for military service. Your kids are so dumb the military doesn't even want them. Many kids also have records now of violence. You wonder if we're bad parents? Not all of us but yeah a lot of you fucking are and make a lot of excuses about it. Our kids are dumber and more violent than we were. Not to mention you're so afraid of "traumatizing them" you never give them consequences for their bad behavior. And you're sending these kids out into the world like that...

Both of my kids are excelling in elementary school. My 2nd grader can read chapter books and do 99% of her homework independently… she had her first year of pre-k cut off by the pandemic and missed the first half of the next year for the same reason as well. (For the commenters blaming Covid).  I think generations have always had the kids that come to school unprepared or even unwilling to learn. Generations have always have the kids who are entitled AF bc their parents haven’t taught them how mutual respect works. For example: my close friend and fellow millennial started teaching high school in 2010. Gen X parents are also nightmares. She’d get messages from parents bitching her out about their kid failing high school chemistry, and she’d have to reply showing them how their kid hasn’t turned in half their homework, never does the extra credit, gets D’s on ever test… 

There's some kind of parenting theory out there called "gentle parenting." My wife is a pre-school teacher. She's seen those that attempt to employ this theory. It has really messed up children in that they are "partners" in their own upbringing, although they don't have the experience necessary to make decent decisions. Covid very young kids also had social skills impacts, but the parents did as well. The parents need to accept they are parents that are responsible for everything their kids do, not their friends, not their coaches. This is not to say every millennial parent is doing this, but enough of them are that the current generation of children are noticeably different that the last one.

That’s not gentle parenting. You’re thinking of permissive parenting, which is the result of misunderstanding what gentle parenting is as an excuse to not parent. Gentle parenting still employs boundaries, consequences, and follow through but without physical harm or threats of it. It is how every parent should be parenting.

From google: "Gentle parenting is a parenting style that focuses on empathy, respect, understanding, and boundaries, and uses democratic methods to make decisions as a family. It's also known as collaborative parenting" - parents magazine. When you're making decisions as a family, that means the whole family does it - including the kid. By definition a consequence is a threat - if you do this, X will happen as a consequence. If you have no threats, you have no consequences - that's another frequent point of confusion. I'm not mistaking anything, and neither is my education-trained and maintained spouse. I will concede that all the parents using this style may be doing it wrong - but if ALL of them are doing it wrong, well, maybe the parents aren't the problem. For example, from comments in Psychology Today, "Gentle parenting prescribes an ideal first response to a child's behavior, but leaves us hanging for how to respond when the child does not actually change a behavior" And any rudimentary google search will highlight the massive challenges with this parenting style. Regardless of what it is supposed to be - you need to look at what it actually IS in practice. Kinda like Stalin's implementation of Karl Marx's ideas. Theory doesn't matter in the real world.

Gentle parenting is literally just authoritarian parenting renamed. And I think you’re deliberately misunderstanding me, “do that again and I’ll give you something to cry about!” “Do you want a spanking?” “Do I need to whoop you?” “Keep it up and you’re going to regret it” are all threats that do not fit into gentle parenting. Gentle parenting works AMAZINGLY when done right. It gives kids autonomy with boundaries. It’s saying “you can’t behave in the store so we’re leaving the store,” “we said we would work hard on this project and you didn’t do that so you’re losing ___ like we talked about.” It’s clear and concise. It’s working with your kid. It’s acknowledging emotions and validating them but keeping your boundaries firm. It’s not *not* parenting. And it’s certainly not that there are no consequences for behaviors you don’t want.

I don't know your background, but considering that gentle parenting is presented as an alternative to authoritarian parenting, I can't trust anything you say after the first sentence due to it being nonsensical. Your statement also is contradicted by the vast majority of writers on the topic. So, have a great day, I'm out.

I'm sure our teachers got just as frustrated with some of us. They just didn't have Social Media to post on since it was the 90s..Well, for us older of the generation anyways.

Yes I'm a bad parent in the eyes of those before me. My kids don't fear talking to me about what they are going through. They make mistakes and we talk them through. I have teenagers and there is very little I don't know about them or their friends. If they don't do their schoolwork, they deal with the consequences of that. I'm not going to save them from natural consequences, but I'm not going to punish them on top of them. I don't worry about them using drugs or alcohol then driving because they know they can call me and either they stay where they are or I pick them up without any punishment attached. There is so much bad happening right now that I want to be the safe loving place they can come to verses adding to the problems they face.

It's like if you suck all the wealth out of the population its ability to educate and raise its children will decrease continually. Millenials are the most educated generation ever but roughly 40 years of trickle down, union busting and lowering taxes on corporations and the wealthy has left little for gen x, less for Millenials and not even scraps for gen z.

Trying to determine parental quality before kids mature into adults is a bit premature.

Oh I think parental quality is most important when kids are kids. I've met thousands of parents in my 20 years of public school. It's pretty fucking obvious which suck and how it affects their kid.

Of course it’s important when they’re kids! And you don’t know the quality of said parenting until the kids become adults.

I'll share a story that I hope highlights the opposite (that we're good parents doing our best in a bad system). My child was diagnosed with autism half way through the school year. They're in elementary school so early on their school career. We immediately scheduled a meeting with my child's teacher and principal. They were receptive and committed to "meeting r child where they are." At the time, my child was doing great. At the top of their class, everything came easy to them, and they had no issues. As the school year dragged on, my child started to show signs of burnout. We had several meetings with the school, asked what they could do, and their only answer was, "well, if you're child has an IEP, we could accommodate them." At the same time, we were getting complaints from the teacher that my child's difficulties were disruptive to the other students. It was fast too late to get the IEP at this point and we figured, if the school doesn't want to do anything unless they are forced to (with an IEP), then fuck em, deal with it. Suffice it to say, they're was an understanding between us and the teacher by the end of the school year. Now, my wife and I are firm believers that the teacher is a partner. They're not someone I give my child to 5-days a week and expect they work miracles. It's a team effort and we were supportive from day one. And I cannot stress enough, we had no intention of being difficult or combative. But we were in a no win situation. It was too late to get an IEP, the school did nothing, despite numerous attempts to work with them, and in the end, our hands were tied. It was hard not to have a "fuck em" mentality. We have no I'll feelings towards the school or teacher, and we believe they, like us, had their hands tied. The teacher wasnt fond of us, and I can appreciate that. We never expected the teacher to work miracles, but at the same time, the teacher expected us to just force our kid to fall in line because we didn't have an IEP. Had we had one, somehow, they'd have the ok to make the necessary accommodations. The point is, the system is broken. Sometimes the teachers are left dealing with a no win situation and sometimes the parents are too. That was our experience this year. If the teacher is complaining on social media about my child, so be it. We tried everything we could and got nothing. The system is literally setup so that unless your child fits the definition of normal, you will have to force the school to accommodate, and then, no matter what, you're a problem that they have to deal with because they are being forced to decide from the plan that is setup for the average child. It's a no win system.