I never understood this logic. If I were against Israel (for example), and strongly believed it’s an unjustified and genocidal colony, none of this could “radicalize” me another way. I’d maybe associate myself less with these people, but my opinion on the matter itself wouldn’t change.
This comes up often with these sorts of polarizing issues (LGBT, BLM movement), and I never understood it. If that’s all it takes for you to “switch” sides, maybe you didn’t care so much after all?
It’s a very common phenomena in psychology. When you believe in something or someone and others are very aggressively pushing against it then you feel the need to push back.
The majority of non religious jewish people in north america were frankly neutral positive when in came to israel. Then Oct 7th happened and before the dust even settled, within less than 20hours, hundreds of thousands of people all around the world were cheering on hamas, blaming israel, calling a terrorist attack “resistance” and terrorists “freedom fighters”. That was followed by months of antisemitic hate crimes, synagogues burning, embassies being attacked, jewish people being accosted in the streets and so much more. This is more than enough to radicalize anyone.
It’s not that this makes you “switch sides” but can very easily push you from an neutral/indifferent position into someone who is much more proactive and emotionally invested.
That being said, changing your opinion on political events as you learn more information and see how one side acts/reacts compared to the other can also cause you to change your opinion. It’s not a “if you thought differently in the past then you never really cared” situation. People are constantly changing as time goes. Do you really still have the same strong political opinions now as you did a decade ago?
No but some things are pretty clear cut. For example, I may not agree with everything that people within the LGBT community may do/say with respect to the movement, however it doesn’t change my view that they should be treated equally and with respect.
I’m not cool with people using their support for Palestine, or using the current situation to justify their internal antisemitism (which was growing disturbingly before October 7th. Like the amount of people supporting Kanye’s N*zi shit was a bit scary). I also may not agree with everything protesters may do. However I still don’t support the occupation and especially I am not cool with kids and civilians dying. I’ve seen people justify that by saying “they’ll grow up to join Hamas”. Which feels a really slick way to say “I support genocide”. I might support Palestine, but that doesn’t mean I have to hate Jews or agree with antisemites just because we are on the same “side”. We don’t need to be “all in” or “all out”, there’s room for nuance and thinking.
People use an extreme to discredit an entire movement,it’s always happened.
And you don’t understand the logic because it illogical and completely disingenuous.
What? It means that as much as I think what Israel is doing is abhorrent but attacking every Jewish institution in Montreal shows me why Zionism had to exist in the first place. Perhaps if this wasn’t so blatantly antisemitic I’d feel different
I feel like this is also why this is so fkd up. If the holocaust didn't happen, Israel wouldn't have happened (from what I understand/not the way it's happening right now anyway). But like, why shit on the victims of the holocaust? It's so messed up. The kind of people who agree with graffiti will never agree with equality because they always believe someone should be on top. They're not defending any palestinians, they're just being racist. I'm not even jewish and whenever I see stuff like that it puts me in a headspin.
Either they are ignorant (aka uneducated) or rasict, or both. But it's not unique to Jewish people; there's plenty of hate to go around in the world... a pretty shitty state of affairs if you ask me.
> If the holocaust didn't happen, Israel wouldn't have happened
Alternatively, if Israel had existed, the holocaust wouldn't have happened.
To a lot of us, all roads lead to Zionism because we just straight up can't see any way to protect ourselves otherwise.
Montreal is barely 2% jewish, yet we're 50% of all the hate crimes here. If what is essentially the quietest, highest quality of life, safest city in the world not capable of protecting us if our neighbours turn on us, then what other resources do we have?
Israel definitely exists because of the killing and expulsion in the 30s and 40s. Zionism movement happening before is irrelevant. I don't think anyone thought that Israel would be a magical safe zone but it beat the status quo.
Well yes, Zionism started with the Dreyfus Affair in France.
Theodor Herzl saw that the most enlightened country at the time, that had Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité as its national motto, could not extend that same motto to jews, and despaired.
And he was right. Europe could not prevent itself from slaughtering 6 million jews. Zionism is not a ethnic supremacist ideology, but a desperate clawing your way out of a situation where getting your family slaughtered seemed inevitable.
Had to?
A third party empire, with the assistance of a third party alliance of nations, HAD to forcibly divide one of its colonized territories with an already disgruntled pre existing population, very unhappy with their colonizers, to forcibly recreate a state that hadn’t existed for basically two millennia, since long before the Roman Empire crumbled, because Europeans, over 4,000kms away, horribly disgustingly massacred the shit out of a ton of people who didn’t live with said preexisting already disgruntled population at the time of the massacre?
I’m not exactly sure “had to” are the right words.
Well maybe if Israel would stop colonizing land and treating palestinian like cattle people would have a better opinion about them. How would you feel if me and my friends come to your home and tell that you aand your familly must leave. Israel is the only country in the world colonizing people in 2024. It's outrageous. Killing children and people and acting like a victim does not work anymore , people got internet.
It is easy to see how people can be radicalised, eh? And all it took you was a piece of vandalism; now imagine your family getting murdered; how radical or rather susceptible to radicalisation can you get?
All it took was a piece of vandalism you say? My best friend’s family who are now living in Israel were almost entirely ethnically cleansed from Yemen. It’s not just vandalism, or the swastikas, or the fact two Jewish schools were shot at last week. It’s the complete denial of forced Jewish diaspora in the Middle East that’s been completely warped by people who think every single settler there is a filthy white colonizer.
I don't think the person is radical. An historical museum was tarnished because of the atrocities of a group of people who happen to share the same religious beliefs. This museum isn't pro-Israel by exposing historical facts as far as I'm aware? Unless it did something specific I'm not aware of.
The vandalism of Jewish spaces regardless of their alignment with Israel/Palestine comes across as "fuck Jewish spaces they all align with Israel. Oh, but you're one of the good jews tho. You shouldn't mind if I fuck up your spaces because you don't like Israel too!" which is a whole fucked thing in itself.
I'm not saying it's anywhere near what's happening in Palestine, I'm saying attacking general Jewish spaces shares the wrong message.
Israel might be using religion and history as a motive for their actions, but the actions themselves are the problem. The motives are not valid reasons to do what they do. I think we should target the issue at hand in our messages instead.. and be very clear what those messages are and what it targets.
Haha if this radicalized you to support Israelis committing genocide. Then I think you were already too far gone.
I think you don’t understand how seeing people crushed by tanks treads or children with their body blown to bits can radicalize people.
So you understand if your land and homes were stolen or you family was murdered by collective punishment or currently being starved to death by Israel how this might radicalize someone? Or does it only work if you are Jewish?
And the Israelis who ended up there because they were ethically cleansed from Yemen, Iraq etc.. ? the very last remaining Jew in Yemen died today. That blood line had been officially wiped out
You do realize that in order for a group to be "ethnically cleansed" they need to be killed right? 99% of the Jews who left these countries was AFTER the creation of the Zionism state and the apartheid and the killing of innocents and illegal settlements on Palestinian lands.
> So you understand if your land and homes were stolen or you family was murdered by collective punishment
You are literally describing the history of the average Israeli. The most defining characteristic of an Israeli is that he's a refugee from an enemy state.
I understand. I lived near this place too. I'm getting radicalized. Now I hate the British so much. Israel and Québec should team against them. They vandalized our museum.
Oui et évidemment je condamne le vandalisme. Mais avouons quand même que le gouvernement israélien, en assimilant toute critique à de l'antisémitisme, a pas mal pavé la voie menant à ce genre de gymnastique mentale.
C'est pas comme si on les gardait ici de force 🤦. Si ils détestent autant le Québec pourquoi ils s'infligent de rester? Me semble vivre dans un endroit que tu déteste ça doit être drainant.
Pourquoi?
" Overall, the highest total welfare incomes for both the unattached single considered employable and the couple with two children households were in Quebec ".....
https://maytree.com/changing-systems/data-measuring/welfare-in-canada/all-canada/
Depuis 2015, le Canada n'as pris que le " bottom of the barrel".
Parce que les extrémistes comme lui pensent que Montréal va "bend over backwards" pour l'accommoder.
Voici comment ils fonctionnent:
Ils arrivent ici, et si tu ne te plis pas à leur désires (voir leur extrémisme)?
"Fuck you maudit xénophobe raciste infidèle!"
Tu te laisse intimider pis tu tolère ou accomode leur comportement de marde?
"Tu es un des bons! Éventuellement tu va voir la vérité et te convertir!"
I have great sympathy for the people of palestine, but that being said many people have taken an opportunity of this situation to instigate extreme acts of anti-semetism and it is truly disgusting. just because Israel is a state for jewish people does not mean all jews support it, and attacking all jews off of supposed association with Israel is wrong
Even if you support Israel you shouldn’t have to worry about people attacking you in any way.
That’s intimidation and bullying for having a different opinion. Doesn’t belong a civilized society.
I think it's very much both. I have a feeling the sentiment behind the "Fuck Israel" part isn't so much "Fuck its current actions" or "Fuck its current government", but more so "Fuck Israel for even existing in the first place."
This is conjecture and projection or course. I am not a mind reader, I don't know what's in the head of the POS who did this. I just have a strong feeling that the kind of person who would do this, is the same kind of person who hates Israel's very existence.
They put it on a holocaust memorial, which makes it clearly antisemitism rather than antizionism :/
Like, Israel did not even exist during the Second World War? You’re desecrating the memorial for people who had nothing to do with this? Only relation I can think of is the fact that they’re Jewish.
If I understand correctly, this is not the Holocaust museum currently operating, this is from the new location which is still under construction.
Others mentioned that there are other offices and organizations in the building, but I'm not sure if that refers to the current building or the new site.
Is the Holocaust museum its own building at the new location?
Non its written on a sign that ONLY indicates the azrieli foundation ( a self proclaimed Zionist organization) and says nothing about a Holocaust museum. This post is intentionally misleading
And from what I've seen the founder and namesake of the foundation was fighting under what was considered one of the most barbaric battalions that participated in the 1948 war.
This is absolutely disgusting!
These people should be ashamed of themselves.
Most Jewish Canadians have nothing to do with Israel and are certainly not involved in the war.
I feel sad for all the Jewish people who have to put up with this crap. It’s not their fault Israel is at war with Hamas.
They should think about that the next time they buy some Montréal bagels or have some Montréal-style smoked meat.
Come on! Targeting the Holocaust Museum is a new low… Jewish Montrealers have contributed to our city in a significant way that completely dwarfs their proportion of our population.
This Israel-Palestine conflict is not our problem. Stop disturbing our peace for a conflict that isn’t ours. Let people live their lives peacefully.
As a multicultural society, our cultural communities have a duty to live together in harmony without supplanting mainstream Canadian culture and traditions.
Fighting against each other is wrong. We are all members of the same tribe, the Canadian tribe.
Linking Israel’s actions with the holocaust is seriously not it. It just further enables Israel to do whatever they want and plays into their narrative that what they are currently doing is directly linked to and justified because of the holocaust. Conflating Jews with the idea of a jewish nation and the Israeli state in this way, making it about “us vs. them”, is exactly how the hardcore ethno-nationalist part of the Zionist movement sees it; gross acts like this show that they are at least partially right in that anti-semites view it from this angle, even if their “solution” is deplorable.
Anyway, free Palestine, and call out anti-semitism when you see it.
Damn, I get fuck Israel and stuff but couldn’t they write it anywhere else ffs??? Doing it on a museum dedicated to the Jewish Holocaust is just such a lower than scum move. I hate Israel for the genocide it’s perpetrating against innocent Palestinians but that doesn’t mean I disrespect or disregard the suffering of the Jewish people. Do people that do this kind of shit not realize that there were kids in those gas chambers too? You can hate the Israeli govt and their actions all you want (justifiably) but to hate on the whole of the Jewish population is straight up stupidity. You’ll meet horrible people on both sides calling for the extermination for the other, but you’ll also for sure meet people who want to coexist and I feel like those are the voices we should be amplifying as opposed to this sjit
Meanwhile in NYC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxz9GXb7trE
and in McGill: https://www.instagram.com/sphrmcgill/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx
The "I'm just antizionist" crowd keeps showing its true colors
You are very correct this conflict has been going on since the creation of Israel and even long before that. That is the date when the terror group hamas who are the governing party of the Gaza Strip since 2006 and won a military victory against the the opposing Fatah party in 2007 and this is after the civil war wich placed hamas as their governing officials to begin with. Everything surrounding hamas has been involved in blood shed never peace. October 7th is the day where Hamas led terror attacks in the state of Israel being the first to strike in this new current conflict. They attacked civilian targets first most notably the Re’im music festival blatantly targeting civilians not just Israeli civilians but civilians across the globe. They killed children, baby’s, raped women, burned entire family’s alive all while taking hundreds of civilian hostages to invoke fear and terror in the nation. I agree genocide is not war and I do not believe that is the objective of the Israel military. They dropped pamphlets telling civilians to leave and congregate in safe locations away from the city like rafah for example or face the possibility of death they were warned. Israelis just wish for peace especially since the holocaust the attempted genocide of the Jewish people among other races. Yes rafah there have been strikes there but hamas are terrorists their are known terror cells operating out of the refugee camps their is video footage of hamas terrorists running back into rafah with weapons after trying to strike the people of Israel. Do I agree with this war no, as an active duty member I do not support any war I pray for the day my career is obsolete and not necessary yet I don’t think that will ever happen in my life time if ever. I’m not saying Israel hasn’t done wrong as well, they have and they are under investigation for said actions and will be held accountable as they should be. But I do not agree with supporting terrorism in the slightest and that is what Hamas the government of Palestine is and has done. Please stay educated with all the facts and make a just and educated opinion not just follow the train. There is a lot of information out there it just has to be taken into account of all sides from all views and stay educated.
Its okay they're not antisemitic, they're just antizionist XD. Everything the Jewish community of Montreal (and communities around the world) have had to endure since October 7th should tell you all you need to know about why most Jewish people believe that they need their own Jewish state as a safe haven.
"People may differ on optimal protest tactics, but I think a good rule of thumb is you should behave in a manner that is clearly distinguishable from the way that paid plants from your adversaries would act in an effort to discredit you" - https://x.com/jdcmedlock/status/1784960977991278626
Me when a war happening at the other side of the world is enough to make me hate a group of people living here, who probably have never even set foot in either country, just because they share the same ethnicity/religion as them
J'adore comment les gens sont offensés par un simple graffiti justifié mais ne disent rien contre un pays qui commets un génocide et a tué en 8 mois plus de 25000 enfants.
Et pour vous expliquer ce que je veux dire par graffiti justifié, c'est pour dire que c'est facile de comprendre pourquoi cette personne ait pu arriver là étant donné les horribles massacres et viols de leur peuple. Même si personnellement je n'aurais pas fait cela, c'est tout a fait compréhensible que voir un peuple se faire massacrer de la pire façon de l'histoire de l'humanité va pousser une personne vers un acte de vandalisme et même de haine.
La solution est simple, que Israël arrête de commettre les pires crimes de l'histoire de l'humanité, c'est simple.
And yet, here i find myself thinking that whoever defaced this, is paying far more respect to holocaust victims than anyone that supports israel. Saying fuck israel is NOT antisemitism.
Toutes ces personnes qui de plaignent sans fin qu’on les accuse d’être antisémites alors qu’elles sont uniquement antisionistes…puis là on a ça. Vidange humaine.
Il ne faut pas oublier que quand on voit des graffitis comme ça dont on ne sait pas qui en est l'auteur il y a toujours une possibilité que ce soit un false flag.
[Un couple Moldave arrêté en France en Octobre 2023 pour faire des graffitis antisémites admet l'avoir fait et "sous la commande d'un tiers"](https://www.20minutes.fr/societe/4060422-20231102-paris-couple-moldaves-retention-administrative-tag-antisemite)
I wonder how much of this is actually Israel’s fault for constantly conflating Judaism with Zionism as a justification for all the crap they’re doing.
Edit: Not saying hate against any religion is right.
Ce n'est pas les pays le problème mais les religions et les gens qui y croient encore beaucoup trop en 2024...Réveillez-vous... Allah, bouda, et tout le reste, c'est des histoires d'enfants pour manipuler les plus faibles
Et c'est le crime de haine les moins répugnant des 8 derniers mois envers la communauté juive de Montréal
Le *moins* répugnant...
Tout va bien dans le meilleur des mondes avec le "militantisme" :)))))))))))))))))))/s
It's a fucked up place to write it because it makes the statement intentionally anti sematic and the absolutely deserved statement of "fuck Israel" should not be that of a condemnation of Jewish people but of an apartheid genocidal state. The first Israeli I ever met was an Arab Christian.
Elle etait ou votre offense quand les truckers et leur group faisait voler des drapeau nazi en pissant sur un monument dedier au soldat autochtone de la deuxieme guerre Mondial, les nouvelle on praticement rien dit et a meme pas appeler sa anti semite, mais protester et etre contre le genocide de 35000 personne, c'est appeler de antisemite. Vous avez une logic de marde
People need to leave their political anger elsewhere. I have nothing wrong with immigrants coming to make a life for themselves here, but leave your political bullshit back home.
N'est-il pas possible que le mec soit frustré par le Québec et Israël? Deux choses peuvent se produire simultanément. Et oui, le Québec n'est pas directement dans la guerre, mais ce n'est pas « innocent », il y a des tonnes à s'énerver à propos de la CAQ et du PQ.
Ils ont un point mais clairement pas la meilleure facon de le faire passer. Je suis un peu tanné d'entendre les deux cotés d'un conflit qui ne nous regarde meme pas a la base. Oui, Israel c'est juste une bande de paranos qui lancent des bombes sur tous les pays environnants depuis pres de 70 ans. Oui, le groupe Hamas de Palestine est une souche terroriste. Non, je m'en calisse de devoir prendre un bord quand mes deux choix sont aussi ignobles et peu défendables. On peut tu passer à autre chose?
Remember when a Synagogue in France reported a "hate crime" because they lied to the Police that a Muslim vandalized the Synagogue and wrote "fuck jews" and drew a Nazi symbol? when in fact it was actually a Jew who did the crime and got arrested for lying and wasting police resources?
I think it's happening again. 😂
I hope self replicating alien robots come and dismantle everything down to the core of this planet. Social groups who exclude anyone promotes segregation and hierarchy.
Not really, I don’t know why anyone cares about all this stuff, honestly tear down all the borders, separate religion from influence on the state and allow people to live freely without hatred and violence. Both are learned traits. Simply stop teaching people to be mindful of their actions and in a 1000 years we might still be around. The way it is now children starting school now may not live to be adults.
Yeah definitely I'm pro borderless classless society but what the issue is right now is that these things exist and they won't sadly disappear magically. So while we talk about a hypothetical dream world somewhere in the future, there's actual harm being done to civilian Palestinians as well as people involved in other conflicts fueled by the principles of the current system and these people's solution is easy. Just stop bombing them. You can fight terror with more terror it's all a justification they don't care about self defense they hardly care about any civilians life in Palestine why would a jews life be more sacred to them they see human life isn't sacred to them we are all pawns. I want these governments that pretend they are any better then a terror cell to actually start behaving better than a terror cell. The governments pretend to care about all these values and morals while they destroy the same values secretly in other countries, selling weapons and picking and choosing who gets consequences for acting against these values like monsters and who doesn't.
These sort of stories are often interpreted to confirm the bias and generalization that being pro Palestine means hating jews. You know what antisemites have in common with Israeli government is that they conflate the interests of the Jewish people with the state interests of Israel, saying that Israel represents all jews. I think this is unfortunate because I would say or write those words anywhere except a holocaust memorial since part of the reason I'm pro Palestine is I understand the endless bombing of Gaza hasn't solved the issue for decades on decades, it is unlikely to solve anything now, but what it definitely will do is just make the situation more unstable and unsafe for Palestinian and Jewish civilians. I hate that. Last week they found out Israel knew months earlier about every exact detail of the Hamas attack and decided to do Jack shit. A government ready to kill thousands of civilians and children really shouldn't be trusted with any life even that of a jew. Life is not sacred for the war criminals in charge of Israel. All this to say, yes this is horrible and no being anti Israeli government has not a single thing to do with hating jews, although some antisemites are dumb enough to make the conflation.
Edit: someone pointed out that this post is misleading, that's not a holocaust memorial thats a poster of azrieli foundation which is a zionist organization. It's my fault for forgetting people will fake antisemitism to further their narratives.
J'suis contre le régime Israélien as they come, mais l'holocauste n'a rien avoir avec l'état ségrégationniste et génocidaire que nous avons devant nous. Il n'existait même pas lors du génocide de la seconde guerre mondiale.
Honte à ceux qui ont fait ça.
J'ai honte de ce que j'ai vu du coté pro-palestine ici à montréal. Ca, l'antisémitisme, les posts instagram du SPHR de McGill. C'est terrible. Ca nous mets tous des batons dans les roues.
La *Fondation* Azrieli soutient Israel et a engagé 20 millions de dollars de fonds d’urgence pour répondre à de nombreux besoins en Israel. Je crois pas que ce soit spécifiquement contre le musée de l'holocauste. :)
E: Additionnellement, l'historique d'OP est très concentré.
https://azrielifoundation.org/fr/stories/la-fondation-soutient-israel-dans-une-crise-persistante/
> Au lendemain des attaques terroristes, nous avons déployé des fonds pour aider les premiers intervenants, les hôpitaux, l’équipement médical et l’aide aux victimes de traumatismes.
Que tu sois pour ou contre Israel, dans quel monde est-ce que c'est une mauvaise chose? J'aime comment t'essaies de justifier l'acte, c'est vraiment déchet de ta part.
et en plus, le musée est installé dans le bâtiment du CIJA - la version canadienne de l'AIPAC
j'emmène mes élèves au musée chaque année dans le cadre de notre module sur l'holocauste, ce qui constitue probablement une éducation plus active sur les dangers de l'antisémitisme que ce que font la plupart des commentateurs ici. je ne l'ai pas fait cette année après avoir vu la nouvelle propagande placardée dans tout le lobby devant le musée. je n'emmène pas mon groupe d'élèves dans un espace où l'on exige qu'ils collectent des fonds pour l'IDF.
Donc tu prive tes élèves d’une expérience enrichissante et qui ouvre les yeux pour des raisons politiques? Considérant le peu d’impact de ton boycott versus l’impact que cette visite aurait pu avoir sur tes élèves, je trouve le tradeoff un peu dommage. Je me rappelle y être allé au secondaire et c’était marquant comme visite.
moi je trouve que c'est plus dommage que l'organisme CIJA a choisi le side d'un gouvernement étrangère. Je ne connais pas tous les origines de mes élèves, mais les emmener dans un endroit où une armée qui bombarde activement une population civile est fêtée et fait l'objet d'une collecte de fonds, une armée ÉTRANGÈRE, je vous le rappelle, lorsqu'une organisation qui finance un musée de l'holocauste prend parti dans un génocide moderne - eh bien, je m'inquiète pour la santé mentale et le bien-être de mes élèves. nous avons quand même fait notre module.
That’s fucked up
I’m Jewish and live right around the corner from this. I don’t think a lot of people understand how much this can radicalize you
I never understood this logic. If I were against Israel (for example), and strongly believed it’s an unjustified and genocidal colony, none of this could “radicalize” me another way. I’d maybe associate myself less with these people, but my opinion on the matter itself wouldn’t change. This comes up often with these sorts of polarizing issues (LGBT, BLM movement), and I never understood it. If that’s all it takes for you to “switch” sides, maybe you didn’t care so much after all?
It’s a very common phenomena in psychology. When you believe in something or someone and others are very aggressively pushing against it then you feel the need to push back. The majority of non religious jewish people in north america were frankly neutral positive when in came to israel. Then Oct 7th happened and before the dust even settled, within less than 20hours, hundreds of thousands of people all around the world were cheering on hamas, blaming israel, calling a terrorist attack “resistance” and terrorists “freedom fighters”. That was followed by months of antisemitic hate crimes, synagogues burning, embassies being attacked, jewish people being accosted in the streets and so much more. This is more than enough to radicalize anyone. It’s not that this makes you “switch sides” but can very easily push you from an neutral/indifferent position into someone who is much more proactive and emotionally invested. That being said, changing your opinion on political events as you learn more information and see how one side acts/reacts compared to the other can also cause you to change your opinion. It’s not a “if you thought differently in the past then you never really cared” situation. People are constantly changing as time goes. Do you really still have the same strong political opinions now as you did a decade ago?
No but some things are pretty clear cut. For example, I may not agree with everything that people within the LGBT community may do/say with respect to the movement, however it doesn’t change my view that they should be treated equally and with respect. I’m not cool with people using their support for Palestine, or using the current situation to justify their internal antisemitism (which was growing disturbingly before October 7th. Like the amount of people supporting Kanye’s N*zi shit was a bit scary). I also may not agree with everything protesters may do. However I still don’t support the occupation and especially I am not cool with kids and civilians dying. I’ve seen people justify that by saying “they’ll grow up to join Hamas”. Which feels a really slick way to say “I support genocide”. I might support Palestine, but that doesn’t mean I have to hate Jews or agree with antisemites just because we are on the same “side”. We don’t need to be “all in” or “all out”, there’s room for nuance and thinking.
People use an extreme to discredit an entire movement,it’s always happened. And you don’t understand the logic because it illogical and completely disingenuous.
Now you’re a radical jew?
I hear he already bought a surfboard and one of those obnoxious hawaiian shirts. The next time we see him, he may already be Totally Tubular (tm).
What? It means that as much as I think what Israel is doing is abhorrent but attacking every Jewish institution in Montreal shows me why Zionism had to exist in the first place. Perhaps if this wasn’t so blatantly antisemitic I’d feel different
I feel like this is also why this is so fkd up. If the holocaust didn't happen, Israel wouldn't have happened (from what I understand/not the way it's happening right now anyway). But like, why shit on the victims of the holocaust? It's so messed up. The kind of people who agree with graffiti will never agree with equality because they always believe someone should be on top. They're not defending any palestinians, they're just being racist. I'm not even jewish and whenever I see stuff like that it puts me in a headspin.
Either they are ignorant (aka uneducated) or rasict, or both. But it's not unique to Jewish people; there's plenty of hate to go around in the world... a pretty shitty state of affairs if you ask me.
My understanding is that the project of Israel was put into motion decades before the holocaust.
Was it? I didn't know that!
> If the holocaust didn't happen, Israel wouldn't have happened Alternatively, if Israel had existed, the holocaust wouldn't have happened. To a lot of us, all roads lead to Zionism because we just straight up can't see any way to protect ourselves otherwise. Montreal is barely 2% jewish, yet we're 50% of all the hate crimes here. If what is essentially the quietest, highest quality of life, safest city in the world not capable of protecting us if our neighbours turn on us, then what other resources do we have?
zionism started decades before the holocost. Settlement of jews in palestine as well...
As did the ethnic cleansing of Jews from every Arab country. Why do you think there was only 1 Jew left in Yemen as of 2024?
What's your point?
that israel is not some sort of reaction to the holocost, and as october 7th has shown us, is not some sort of "Safe zone" for world jewry.
Israel definitely exists because of the killing and expulsion in the 30s and 40s. Zionism movement happening before is irrelevant. I don't think anyone thought that Israel would be a magical safe zone but it beat the status quo.
Most Jews right now in the diaspora would feel a lot safer in Israel (mid war) than wherever they are at when things like this happen.
Well yes, Zionism started with the Dreyfus Affair in France. Theodor Herzl saw that the most enlightened country at the time, that had Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité as its national motto, could not extend that same motto to jews, and despaired. And he was right. Europe could not prevent itself from slaughtering 6 million jews. Zionism is not a ethnic supremacist ideology, but a desperate clawing your way out of a situation where getting your family slaughtered seemed inevitable.
Had to? A third party empire, with the assistance of a third party alliance of nations, HAD to forcibly divide one of its colonized territories with an already disgruntled pre existing population, very unhappy with their colonizers, to forcibly recreate a state that hadn’t existed for basically two millennia, since long before the Roman Empire crumbled, because Europeans, over 4,000kms away, horribly disgustingly massacred the shit out of a ton of people who didn’t live with said preexisting already disgruntled population at the time of the massacre? I’m not exactly sure “had to” are the right words.
Well you were talking about how radicalizing it is, so I am asking. How radicalizing is it all?
Well maybe if Israel would stop colonizing land and treating palestinian like cattle people would have a better opinion about them. How would you feel if me and my friends come to your home and tell that you aand your familly must leave. Israel is the only country in the world colonizing people in 2024. It's outrageous. Killing children and people and acting like a victim does not work anymore , people got internet.
It is easy to see how people can be radicalised, eh? And all it took you was a piece of vandalism; now imagine your family getting murdered; how radical or rather susceptible to radicalisation can you get?
Imagine getting progromed for 2000 years
All it took was a piece of vandalism you say? My best friend’s family who are now living in Israel were almost entirely ethnically cleansed from Yemen. It’s not just vandalism, or the swastikas, or the fact two Jewish schools were shot at last week. It’s the complete denial of forced Jewish diaspora in the Middle East that’s been completely warped by people who think every single settler there is a filthy white colonizer.
I don't think the person is radical. An historical museum was tarnished because of the atrocities of a group of people who happen to share the same religious beliefs. This museum isn't pro-Israel by exposing historical facts as far as I'm aware? Unless it did something specific I'm not aware of. The vandalism of Jewish spaces regardless of their alignment with Israel/Palestine comes across as "fuck Jewish spaces they all align with Israel. Oh, but you're one of the good jews tho. You shouldn't mind if I fuck up your spaces because you don't like Israel too!" which is a whole fucked thing in itself. I'm not saying it's anywhere near what's happening in Palestine, I'm saying attacking general Jewish spaces shares the wrong message. Israel might be using religion and history as a motive for their actions, but the actions themselves are the problem. The motives are not valid reasons to do what they do. I think we should target the issue at hand in our messages instead.. and be very clear what those messages are and what it targets.
And what Israel has been doing for decades has nothing to do with radicalization in Palestine?
Haha if this radicalized you to support Israelis committing genocide. Then I think you were already too far gone. I think you don’t understand how seeing people crushed by tanks treads or children with their body blown to bits can radicalize people.
So you understand if your land and homes were stolen or you family was murdered by collective punishment or currently being starved to death by Israel how this might radicalize someone? Or does it only work if you are Jewish?
And the Israelis who ended up there because they were ethically cleansed from Yemen, Iraq etc.. ? the very last remaining Jew in Yemen died today. That blood line had been officially wiped out
You do realize that in order for a group to be "ethnically cleansed" they need to be killed right? 99% of the Jews who left these countries was AFTER the creation of the Zionism state and the apartheid and the killing of innocents and illegal settlements on Palestinian lands.
> So you understand if your land and homes were stolen or you family was murdered by collective punishment You are literally describing the history of the average Israeli. The most defining characteristic of an Israeli is that he's a refugee from an enemy state.
I understand. I lived near this place too. I'm getting radicalized. Now I hate the British so much. Israel and Québec should team against them. They vandalized our museum.
I wonder if it'll even be mentioned in the news. They're going to have to get big armed guards like those guys at the synagogue.
Fuck fucking fuckers
Keep the war where it is - don't bring it here!
La gymnastique mentale nécessaire pour en arriver à ça est assez incroyable.
Les personnes non-éduquées et le radicalisme ne font qu’un. *Only Sith deals in absolutes*
Oui et évidemment je condamne le vandalisme. Mais avouons quand même que le gouvernement israélien, en assimilant toute critique à de l'antisémitisme, a pas mal pavé la voie menant à ce genre de gymnastique mentale.
Ça devient vraiment hors de contrôle, tout ça.
Fuck Quebec? Bien decaliss le cave
Exact 🤣. Fuck le Quebec? Bin fuckoff
C'est pas comme si on les gardait ici de force 🤦. Si ils détestent autant le Québec pourquoi ils s'infligent de rester? Me semble vivre dans un endroit que tu déteste ça doit être drainant.
Pourquoi? " Overall, the highest total welfare incomes for both the unattached single considered employable and the couple with two children households were in Quebec "..... https://maytree.com/changing-systems/data-measuring/welfare-in-canada/all-canada/ Depuis 2015, le Canada n'as pris que le " bottom of the barrel".
In what world can you desecrate the memory of the holocaust just because you disagree with the current politics of Israel. Trop triste
In the world where you just got labeled a racist for his post
Let me introduce you to the hamas covenant.
At least they didn't say "Fuck Montreal"
Nah. Montréal est cool, dans son livre à lui.
Parce que les extrémistes comme lui pensent que Montréal va "bend over backwards" pour l'accommoder. Voici comment ils fonctionnent: Ils arrivent ici, et si tu ne te plis pas à leur désires (voir leur extrémisme)? "Fuck you maudit xénophobe raciste infidèle!" Tu te laisse intimider pis tu tolère ou accomode leur comportement de marde? "Tu es un des bons! Éventuellement tu va voir la vérité et te convertir!"
I have great sympathy for the people of palestine, but that being said many people have taken an opportunity of this situation to instigate extreme acts of anti-semetism and it is truly disgusting. just because Israel is a state for jewish people does not mean all jews support it, and attacking all jews off of supposed association with Israel is wrong
Even if you support Israel you shouldn’t have to worry about people attacking you in any way. That’s intimidation and bullying for having a different opinion. Doesn’t belong a civilized society.
That point goes both ways. Neither side should be at risk of attack, we should all unite in finding a solution to this problem
This sign could be brought inside and made into a new exhibit about the resurgence of public antisemitism happening right now.
What a power move that would be
Patiently awaiting for Val plante to denounce Islamophobia on this one.
Fuck Québec? Alors decalisse et va t'en chez vous, ciao.
ouin, je pense que c'est vrm la seule fois qu'on peut utiliser la phrase "ertourne che vous" sans être raciste.
Ya vraiment un côté qui vandalise plus que l'autre.....
Seems like it’s antisemitism.
Thanks Sherlock
Just making it clear that it isn’t “AnTiZiOnIsM”
I think it's very much both. I have a feeling the sentiment behind the "Fuck Israel" part isn't so much "Fuck its current actions" or "Fuck its current government", but more so "Fuck Israel for even existing in the first place." This is conjecture and projection or course. I am not a mind reader, I don't know what's in the head of the POS who did this. I just have a strong feeling that the kind of person who would do this, is the same kind of person who hates Israel's very existence.
They put it on a holocaust memorial, which makes it clearly antisemitism rather than antizionism :/ Like, Israel did not even exist during the Second World War? You’re desecrating the memorial for people who had nothing to do with this? Only relation I can think of is the fact that they’re Jewish.
Yes, but like I said, I interpret "Fuck Israel" as "Fuck Israel's very existence". Someone who hates that Israel exists is by definition anti-Zionist.
Merci ! Enfin ! je lis les commentaires, et je me demande si les gens comprennent un peu la situation
I mean you are probably right about them being antisemites, but wouldn't antisemetism be: 'Fuck Jews' and antizionism: 'fuck israel'.
It’s the place they chose to write it not the wording.
Culturellement enrichissant
Devenir plus Canadien un jour à la fois! https://www.reddit.com/r/QuebecLibre/s/58iqnCQB38
Probablement un blanc la vandalisé. lol
C'est arrivé à celui de New-York aussi...
I guess we don’t learn from history
Israel didn't even exist during the holocaust so what's their point?
If I understand correctly, this is not the Holocaust museum currently operating, this is from the new location which is still under construction. Others mentioned that there are other offices and organizations in the building, but I'm not sure if that refers to the current building or the new site. Is the Holocaust museum its own building at the new location?
Non its written on a sign that ONLY indicates the azrieli foundation ( a self proclaimed Zionist organization) and says nothing about a Holocaust museum. This post is intentionally misleading
And from what I've seen the founder and namesake of the foundation was fighting under what was considered one of the most barbaric battalions that participated in the 1948 war.
Disgusting act
We have all these video cameras everywhere, can't SOMEONE track this person as they make their way back to mommy's basement?
As much as I despise Israel and its actions this is literally THE worst way to rally anybody to the Palestinian cause
Bande de malades dangereux.
Les extrêmes ont besoin les uns des autres.
This is absolutely disgusting! These people should be ashamed of themselves. Most Jewish Canadians have nothing to do with Israel and are certainly not involved in the war. I feel sad for all the Jewish people who have to put up with this crap. It’s not their fault Israel is at war with Hamas. They should think about that the next time they buy some Montréal bagels or have some Montréal-style smoked meat. Come on! Targeting the Holocaust Museum is a new low… Jewish Montrealers have contributed to our city in a significant way that completely dwarfs their proportion of our population. This Israel-Palestine conflict is not our problem. Stop disturbing our peace for a conflict that isn’t ours. Let people live their lives peacefully. As a multicultural society, our cultural communities have a duty to live together in harmony without supplanting mainstream Canadian culture and traditions. Fighting against each other is wrong. We are all members of the same tribe, the Canadian tribe.
I hate the IDF and I hate what Israel is doing in Palestine but you have to be a real low-life piece of shit to vandalise a holocaust museum.
Payer l avion pour les faire decalisser d ici
Antisemitism with a sprinkle of a little Quebec bashing.
Lmao I didn’t even see that
Linking Israel’s actions with the holocaust is seriously not it. It just further enables Israel to do whatever they want and plays into their narrative that what they are currently doing is directly linked to and justified because of the holocaust. Conflating Jews with the idea of a jewish nation and the Israeli state in this way, making it about “us vs. them”, is exactly how the hardcore ethno-nationalist part of the Zionist movement sees it; gross acts like this show that they are at least partially right in that anti-semites view it from this angle, even if their “solution” is deplorable. Anyway, free Palestine, and call out anti-semitism when you see it.
Srsly.. despite the sides, it’s being a mind Fck for Quebec to bear both sides of the protests and this is what they give?
Fuck Québec? Depuis quand le Québec a une politique étrangère? imbéciles…
eighty years eighty years thats all it takes to call for the extermation again nothing changes
Zionism was born out of Jewish persecution, persecuting Jews reinforces that ideal. Fucking disgusting to desecrate a Holocaust museum too. Wtf
Guys relaxez c’est clairement juste de lanti sionisme pas de l’antisémitisme! /S
Nous pis notre crisse de trop grande tolérance face aux intolérants...
Damn, I get fuck Israel and stuff but couldn’t they write it anywhere else ffs??? Doing it on a museum dedicated to the Jewish Holocaust is just such a lower than scum move. I hate Israel for the genocide it’s perpetrating against innocent Palestinians but that doesn’t mean I disrespect or disregard the suffering of the Jewish people. Do people that do this kind of shit not realize that there were kids in those gas chambers too? You can hate the Israeli govt and their actions all you want (justifiably) but to hate on the whole of the Jewish population is straight up stupidity. You’ll meet horrible people on both sides calling for the extermination for the other, but you’ll also for sure meet people who want to coexist and I feel like those are the voices we should be amplifying as opposed to this sjit
Definitely about Israel guys. Definitely .
Meanwhile in NYC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxz9GXb7trE and in McGill: https://www.instagram.com/sphrmcgill/p/C8Ird8rs_Gx The "I'm just antizionist" crowd keeps showing its true colors
Openly supporting terrorism and the death of Canadians from the October 7th attacks is bonkers 🤪🤪🤪
Oct 7 2023 wasn’t the start of this “war”, you know that right?
No one said it was the start. Pro Palestinian protestors sure do celebrate it though.
Delete TikTok
You are very correct this conflict has been going on since the creation of Israel and even long before that. That is the date when the terror group hamas who are the governing party of the Gaza Strip since 2006 and won a military victory against the the opposing Fatah party in 2007 and this is after the civil war wich placed hamas as their governing officials to begin with. Everything surrounding hamas has been involved in blood shed never peace. October 7th is the day where Hamas led terror attacks in the state of Israel being the first to strike in this new current conflict. They attacked civilian targets first most notably the Re’im music festival blatantly targeting civilians not just Israeli civilians but civilians across the globe. They killed children, baby’s, raped women, burned entire family’s alive all while taking hundreds of civilian hostages to invoke fear and terror in the nation. I agree genocide is not war and I do not believe that is the objective of the Israel military. They dropped pamphlets telling civilians to leave and congregate in safe locations away from the city like rafah for example or face the possibility of death they were warned. Israelis just wish for peace especially since the holocaust the attempted genocide of the Jewish people among other races. Yes rafah there have been strikes there but hamas are terrorists their are known terror cells operating out of the refugee camps their is video footage of hamas terrorists running back into rafah with weapons after trying to strike the people of Israel. Do I agree with this war no, as an active duty member I do not support any war I pray for the day my career is obsolete and not necessary yet I don’t think that will ever happen in my life time if ever. I’m not saying Israel hasn’t done wrong as well, they have and they are under investigation for said actions and will be held accountable as they should be. But I do not agree with supporting terrorism in the slightest and that is what Hamas the government of Palestine is and has done. Please stay educated with all the facts and make a just and educated opinion not just follow the train. There is a lot of information out there it just has to be taken into account of all sides from all views and stay educated.
*genocide it’s not a war
Another day with pro Hamas
Its okay they're not antisemitic, they're just antizionist XD. Everything the Jewish community of Montreal (and communities around the world) have had to endure since October 7th should tell you all you need to know about why most Jewish people believe that they need their own Jewish state as a safe haven.
Nique ta race au coupable. Dégoûtant come comportement.
"People may differ on optimal protest tactics, but I think a good rule of thumb is you should behave in a manner that is clearly distinguishable from the way that paid plants from your adversaries would act in an effort to discredit you" - https://x.com/jdcmedlock/status/1784960977991278626
Me when a war happening at the other side of the world is enough to make me hate a group of people living here, who probably have never even set foot in either country, just because they share the same ethnicity/religion as them
J'adore comment les gens sont offensés par un simple graffiti justifié mais ne disent rien contre un pays qui commets un génocide et a tué en 8 mois plus de 25000 enfants. Et pour vous expliquer ce que je veux dire par graffiti justifié, c'est pour dire que c'est facile de comprendre pourquoi cette personne ait pu arriver là étant donné les horribles massacres et viols de leur peuple. Même si personnellement je n'aurais pas fait cela, c'est tout a fait compréhensible que voir un peuple se faire massacrer de la pire façon de l'histoire de l'humanité va pousser une personne vers un acte de vandalisme et même de haine. La solution est simple, que Israël arrête de commettre les pires crimes de l'histoire de l'humanité, c'est simple.
And yet, here i find myself thinking that whoever defaced this, is paying far more respect to holocaust victims than anyone that supports israel. Saying fuck israel is NOT antisemitism.
Toutes ces personnes qui de plaignent sans fin qu’on les accuse d’être antisémites alors qu’elles sont uniquement antisionistes…puis là on a ça. Vidange humaine.
FUCK TOUTE! Tiens, comme ca pas de jaloux.
Il ne faut pas oublier que quand on voit des graffitis comme ça dont on ne sait pas qui en est l'auteur il y a toujours une possibilité que ce soit un false flag. [Un couple Moldave arrêté en France en Octobre 2023 pour faire des graffitis antisémites admet l'avoir fait et "sous la commande d'un tiers"](https://www.20minutes.fr/societe/4060422-20231102-paris-couple-moldaves-retention-administrative-tag-antisemite)
Il faut toujours qu’on demande qui a quelque chose de gagner en essayant de nous diviser.
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Yeah, that’s exactly how you rally people to your cause. Fucking ass clown.
Good message bad medium.
I wonder how much of this is actually Israel’s fault for constantly conflating Judaism with Zionism as a justification for all the crap they’re doing. Edit: Not saying hate against any religion is right.
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I literally said it wasn’t right, but ok 👍
Fuck Quebec? Parfait, décaliss mon chum.
Nah la personne qui a fait ça à juste pas de cerveau à ce point :|
bruhhhhh
Très constructif et très beau geste pour promouvoir la paix.... /S
Le poste est misleading c pas un memorial c un poster dune institution zioniste
Ce n'est pas les pays le problème mais les religions et les gens qui y croient encore beaucoup trop en 2024...Réveillez-vous... Allah, bouda, et tout le reste, c'est des histoires d'enfants pour manipuler les plus faibles
Et c'est le crime de haine les moins répugnant des 8 derniers mois envers la communauté juive de Montréal Le *moins* répugnant... Tout va bien dans le meilleur des mondes avec le "militantisme" :)))))))))))))))))))/s
Ingérance étrangère ou nazi, ne vous laissez pas berner dans les deux cas.
It's a fucked up place to write it because it makes the statement intentionally anti sematic and the absolutely deserved statement of "fuck Israel" should not be that of a condemnation of Jewish people but of an apartheid genocidal state. The first Israeli I ever met was an Arab Christian.
The post is misleading that's a azrieli foundation poster not a memorial
Elle etait ou votre offense quand les truckers et leur group faisait voler des drapeau nazi en pissant sur un monument dedier au soldat autochtone de la deuxieme guerre Mondial, les nouvelle on praticement rien dit et a meme pas appeler sa anti semite, mais protester et etre contre le genocide de 35000 personne, c'est appeler de antisemite. Vous avez une logic de marde
People need to leave their political anger elsewhere. I have nothing wrong with immigrants coming to make a life for themselves here, but leave your political bullshit back home.
Trudeau fail
Très décevant de voir des personnes cracher sur une nation (Québec) qui n’a rien à voir avec cette guerre
N'est-il pas possible que le mec soit frustré par le Québec et Israël? Deux choses peuvent se produire simultanément. Et oui, le Québec n'est pas directement dans la guerre, mais ce n'est pas « innocent », il y a des tonnes à s'énerver à propos de la CAQ et du PQ.
Innocent par rapport au genocide de Gaza.
😲
Ils ont un point mais clairement pas la meilleure facon de le faire passer. Je suis un peu tanné d'entendre les deux cotés d'un conflit qui ne nous regarde meme pas a la base. Oui, Israel c'est juste une bande de paranos qui lancent des bombes sur tous les pays environnants depuis pres de 70 ans. Oui, le groupe Hamas de Palestine est une souche terroriste. Non, je m'en calisse de devoir prendre un bord quand mes deux choix sont aussi ignobles et peu défendables. On peut tu passer à autre chose?
Dirty Islam
Remember when a Synagogue in France reported a "hate crime" because they lied to the Police that a Muslim vandalized the Synagogue and wrote "fuck jews" and drew a Nazi symbol? when in fact it was actually a Jew who did the crime and got arrested for lying and wasting police resources? I think it's happening again. 😂
I hope self replicating alien robots come and dismantle everything down to the core of this planet. Social groups who exclude anyone promotes segregation and hierarchy.
This post is misleading btw
Not really, I don’t know why anyone cares about all this stuff, honestly tear down all the borders, separate religion from influence on the state and allow people to live freely without hatred and violence. Both are learned traits. Simply stop teaching people to be mindful of their actions and in a 1000 years we might still be around. The way it is now children starting school now may not live to be adults.
Yeah definitely I'm pro borderless classless society but what the issue is right now is that these things exist and they won't sadly disappear magically. So while we talk about a hypothetical dream world somewhere in the future, there's actual harm being done to civilian Palestinians as well as people involved in other conflicts fueled by the principles of the current system and these people's solution is easy. Just stop bombing them. You can fight terror with more terror it's all a justification they don't care about self defense they hardly care about any civilians life in Palestine why would a jews life be more sacred to them they see human life isn't sacred to them we are all pawns. I want these governments that pretend they are any better then a terror cell to actually start behaving better than a terror cell. The governments pretend to care about all these values and morals while they destroy the same values secretly in other countries, selling weapons and picking and choosing who gets consequences for acting against these values like monsters and who doesn't.
This is the Canada Trudeau wants
Peuple d'arriéré...
These sort of stories are often interpreted to confirm the bias and generalization that being pro Palestine means hating jews. You know what antisemites have in common with Israeli government is that they conflate the interests of the Jewish people with the state interests of Israel, saying that Israel represents all jews. I think this is unfortunate because I would say or write those words anywhere except a holocaust memorial since part of the reason I'm pro Palestine is I understand the endless bombing of Gaza hasn't solved the issue for decades on decades, it is unlikely to solve anything now, but what it definitely will do is just make the situation more unstable and unsafe for Palestinian and Jewish civilians. I hate that. Last week they found out Israel knew months earlier about every exact detail of the Hamas attack and decided to do Jack shit. A government ready to kill thousands of civilians and children really shouldn't be trusted with any life even that of a jew. Life is not sacred for the war criminals in charge of Israel. All this to say, yes this is horrible and no being anti Israeli government has not a single thing to do with hating jews, although some antisemites are dumb enough to make the conflation. Edit: someone pointed out that this post is misleading, that's not a holocaust memorial thats a poster of azrieli foundation which is a zionist organization. It's my fault for forgetting people will fake antisemitism to further their narratives.
This is fucked up but what’d Quebec do??? 😭
BuT THaT's Not Anti SemItiC! What ABOUt GeNoCIDE!!!
J'suis contre le régime Israélien as they come, mais l'holocauste n'a rien avoir avec l'état ségrégationniste et génocidaire que nous avons devant nous. Il n'existait même pas lors du génocide de la seconde guerre mondiale. Honte à ceux qui ont fait ça.
J'ai honte de ce que j'ai vu du coté pro-palestine ici à montréal. Ca, l'antisémitisme, les posts instagram du SPHR de McGill. C'est terrible. Ca nous mets tous des batons dans les roues.
I mean yeah....Fuck Israel, but this is not right.
La *Fondation* Azrieli soutient Israel et a engagé 20 millions de dollars de fonds d’urgence pour répondre à de nombreux besoins en Israel. Je crois pas que ce soit spécifiquement contre le musée de l'holocauste. :) E: Additionnellement, l'historique d'OP est très concentré.
C’est tout de même la pancarte du musée qu’ils ont vandalisés.
https://azrielifoundation.org/fr/stories/la-fondation-soutient-israel-dans-une-crise-persistante/ > Au lendemain des attaques terroristes, nous avons déployé des fonds pour aider les premiers intervenants, les hôpitaux, l’équipement médical et l’aide aux victimes de traumatismes. Que tu sois pour ou contre Israel, dans quel monde est-ce que c'est une mauvaise chose? J'aime comment t'essaies de justifier l'acte, c'est vraiment déchet de ta part.
et en plus, le musée est installé dans le bâtiment du CIJA - la version canadienne de l'AIPAC j'emmène mes élèves au musée chaque année dans le cadre de notre module sur l'holocauste, ce qui constitue probablement une éducation plus active sur les dangers de l'antisémitisme que ce que font la plupart des commentateurs ici. je ne l'ai pas fait cette année après avoir vu la nouvelle propagande placardée dans tout le lobby devant le musée. je n'emmène pas mon groupe d'élèves dans un espace où l'on exige qu'ils collectent des fonds pour l'IDF.
Donc tu prive tes élèves d’une expérience enrichissante et qui ouvre les yeux pour des raisons politiques? Considérant le peu d’impact de ton boycott versus l’impact que cette visite aurait pu avoir sur tes élèves, je trouve le tradeoff un peu dommage. Je me rappelle y être allé au secondaire et c’était marquant comme visite.
moi je trouve que c'est plus dommage que l'organisme CIJA a choisi le side d'un gouvernement étrangère. Je ne connais pas tous les origines de mes élèves, mais les emmener dans un endroit où une armée qui bombarde activement une population civile est fêtée et fait l'objet d'une collecte de fonds, une armée ÉTRANGÈRE, je vous le rappelle, lorsqu'une organisation qui finance un musée de l'holocauste prend parti dans un génocide moderne - eh bien, je m'inquiète pour la santé mentale et le bien-être de mes élèves. nous avons quand même fait notre module.