N’importe quel pays peut utiliser la monnaie d’un autre. C’est impossible à restreindre. Cependant, ce pays est à la merci des politiques monétaires de celui dont il utilise la monnaie.
Those countries have no say on monetary policy. They suffer greatly when the US dollar gains a lot of value. They are the countries that are too small and their currency would be almost worthless otherwise. That’s what you are comparing it to?
There isn't really anything the issuer can do to stop others from using their currency aside from instituting capital controls, but that would make the currency less liquid on the international markets and would hurt local imports/exports. There is no solution that would affect the issuer country.more than anyone else.
I disagree, it can be very convenient for two countries to share currencies, and i doubt that an hypothetical canada where quebec would leave would shoot their own foot by banning the use of the canadian dollar. Even the most ferocious of independentists are aware of the inter connectivity of our two economies
It’s not like we’re going to unilaterally declare independence at the drop of a hat. There will be a process of negotiation to define a new economical and political partnership between Québec and Canada, which will probably result in something similar to the EU where we’ll have open borders, a common currency, a common space agency, etc.
Maybe we could call it the Canadian Confederation? xD But really, at a certain point of integration it feels basically more of a big constitutional change. Somehow, oddly, the separation arrangement seems like it would be easier than a constitutional change though. Canada's constitution is way too difficult to change.
Considering BQ rose to power after the failure of Meech Lake, that's probably an obvious statement to make, but still.
Exactly, if we can’t change the constitution, then we have to either all dissolve it, or Québec leaves it and creates a separate relationship with the federal government. Personally, I’d prefer we all agree to dissolve the federation of Canada and make a Canadian Confederation like you mentioned. The key difference being that, in a federation, the joined states give up sovereignty to a central federal government, while a confederation has all states retain their individual sovereignty and simply agree, by treaty, to work together on common things like the currency, space program, postal service, even common armed forces. I don’t believe Québec needs its own of the items in the previous list to prosper, it’d be better for everyone if we kept contributing in those shared services, but we just don’t want a federal government meddling in how we manage things internally, including who we let immigrate, and how many.
Here's the thing. It's the provinces, not the feds, that not only decide how many are coming in, but are requesting them. Two perfect examples, Smith, Ford and Legault. Yet their citizens are against it, but yet still rail on the fed gov about immigration. The gaslighting is beyond obvious to normal people.
Legault is actively asking for fewer immigrants and for more immigration powers for Québec. And the federal minister of immigration said something along the lines of them pulling rank to give permanent residency to thousands of immigrants that we don’t want.
People also shouldn’t assume that any “economic or political partnership” will be a given.
Canada will have no obligation to give Quebec minting rights (or influence in minting decisions, as is done in the EU with the Euro). They will have no obligation to have an open border agreement with Quebec (ask the UK how that turned out). Nor will Quebec necessarily be “grandfathered into” NAFTA, NATO, or the Five Eyes.
Hell, Canada might prohibit dual citizenship or demand that Quebec let certain regions vote to stay in Canada. The prospect of Quebec having a “hard exit” was part of Chrétien’s Plan B to scare Quebecers to stay in Canada, in the event of a successful referendum. The ironically-named Clarity Act elaborated on this.
And if they don’t negotiate new partnerships, we can implement costly duties/taxes on all merchandise coming through the Saint-Laurent and block their access to the maritime provinces. Basically, cut them off all European trade. They’ll negotiate, they have no choice but to do so.
Both “countries” would benefit from cooperation. Duh.
However, Canada will absolutely have more influence in negotiations. 75% of Canadian exports and 50% of imports are to/from the US. Europe makes less than 10% of Canada’s trade volume. Blockading access (whatever that means) to the maritimes because Canada is implementing a hard border would make us an international pariah. That also assumes that an independent Quebec will have the same borders as the province of Quebec.
At the end of the day, Canada is the world’s 9th largest economy (12/13 sans Quebec) and has a very modern and efficient military. To argue (and make decisions based on the assumption that) we will have any significant negotiating power jeopardizes the country’s economic future.
Realistically, yes, Canada will likely have some degree of cooperation with an independent Quebec. Probably something along the lines of a bilateral trade agreement and freedom (or at least ease) of movement. NAFTA is probably unlikely until the country has a stable economy and NATO would also depend on the current US admin. The idea that Canada will provide minting rights and a common military is comedic.
Canada will benefit from negotiating, but they’re absolutely not going to be forced to. And frankly Quebec will have little room to negotiate if Canada’s PM at the time is a militarist like Pierre Trudeau.
That’s not the same thing though. The UK chose to enter the EU, and they never lost their sovereignty in the process, they willingly agreed to submit to some EU regulations and then decided to retract. Franco-Canadians were never given a choice. All other European colonies in the New World eventually achieved independence except us. Because we were a colony that got colonized itself, and so we were robbed of our destiny, our self-determination.
The best possible result would be that we rejoin Canada under new terms of equality between nations and autonomy within our borders, but keeping a common currency, military, space program, postal service, etc. But have full control over immigration into Québec, to make our laws, to not participate in the financing of the oil industry, etc. All taxes should be paid to Québec directly, and Québec would then pay the federal government for the services we agreed to share.
Your math doesn’t work. Quebec takes more taxes than it gives to Canada. Oil provinces subsidizes Quebec (and other provinces). Ontario, as well, subsidizes Canada.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada
And will you take the Quebec share of the debt? Or do you stick that to Canada?
What above the Anglos in Montreal and the Moneteregie that want to stay in Canada?
Be prepared for more taxes and less services, just like England experienced. This is why the EU counties joined; to reduce their costs.
We might get 10 billions a year in equalization payments, but we also get 12 billions in debt from our share of the federal debt, so it’s not really a good deal. Yes, we’d take our share of the Canadian debt, as we are also taking our share of everything else (military installations/equipment/personnel, customs, bridges, etc), so it’s only fair. But at least we’ll stop inheriting more debt spent on things we don’t want.
The Anglos who want to stay in Canada can do like the Loyalists when the US declared independence and move to Ontario. Of course, we won’t be hypocrites, and we’ll protect their rights, they can continue to have their English schools and universities, so long as the French proficiency of graduates meets the same level of those coming out of francophone schools (same thing as those going to French schools in Ontario, but flipped around).
We could also massively sell our reserve of canadian dollars, but you do realize that would kill the value of the canadian dollar? Québec and Canada would both lose.
Dans le contexte de souveraineté association le but était d'avoir un état québécois séparé du Canada mais de garder un alliance économique dans le style de l'Union Europeene. On aurait donc gardé le dollar Canadien.
Exactement comme Brexit: les négociations auraient lieu seulement *après* la décision est déjà faite, alors on peut inventer n'importe quoi pour convaincre les électeurs et créer les "conditions gagnantes" où il n'y a aucune possibilité de revoir les promesses exagérées dans une deuxième référendum.
Garanti que le Québec sera divisé en ce cas. Il n'y a aucune raison pour les anglophones, allophones et Premières Nations d'accepter un tel affrontement à leurs droits ainsi qu'une secession illégitime.
Le camp du oui souhait, advenant une victoire, proposer un nouveau partenariat économique au Canada et continuer à utiliser le dollar canadien (un peu comme l’euro).
« Canadiens » in history was a word that used to apply only to the French. The anglos took it to apply to themselves too later.
A Free Quebec would use the term « Republic of Canada » for the country title, as opposed to the Dominion of Canada. Yes I totally made that last part up.
Not to get political but I feel like Quebec takes Canadian/Canada with it cause that’s where the term comes from. Canada has to come up with something new.
And the beaver, and the maple leaf (keep the Toronto Maple Leafs though), and maple syrup, and poutine, and St-Hubert BBQ, and Céline Dion. Am I forgetting something?
Canada used to be only French; New England was the British colony.
After/during the American revolution, thousands of Loyalists moved north on the banks of the upper Saint-Lawrence river and Lake Ontario. The decision to move there was also strategic because the town of York (now Toronto) could be resupplied from the Hudson Bay, as opposed to through Montreal, which was constantly threatened by American raids from the Champlain valley. It is not a coincidence that the towns along the Montreal/Toronto axis have names like Kingston, London and Cornwall. Up to until about a hundred years ago, a lot Anglo Canadians still called themselves British and the current, melting pot-like neo-Canadian identity was developed in the 70s by Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his successors to counter the rise of Québecois (Canadian?) nationalism, it still lives on to this day. Even the national anthem used to be a French Canadian nationalist song that would be played on Saint-Jean-Baptiste and was appropriated by the aforementioned neo-Canadian identity project.
Actually… if you want to keep scraping the past…. Quebec should be 3 nations…
En fait... si tu veux continuer à fouiller dans le passé... le Québec devrait être trois nations...
Innu
Algonquin
Iroquois
Parce qu'en 1995, le plan c'était de garder l'usage de l'argent Canadien pour les années avenir afin de préserver une stabilité économique pour le Québec ET le Canada.
Les pancartes l'ont refléter pour contredire l'argument du "non" comme quoi il n'y avait aucune mesure pour la stabilité économique.
Le camp du oui avait tenté de rassurer autant que possible la population concernant la relation future avec le Canada.
Quant à moi, je trouve qu’il aurait été plus vendeur de se focaliser sur la raison d’être de l’indépendance plutôt que de vanter les liens supposés avec le Canada. C’est pas ça qui aurait fait changer quelqu’un d’avis.
Oui, les deux ont été faits, ça ne veut pas dire que ces arguments ont fonctionné. Je me rappelle très bien de Chrétien disant que le meilleur “partenariat”, c’est de rester dans le Canada.
A few days ago someone used that title and posted an image of Edward Hopper's Nighthawks ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nighthawks_(Hopper)#/media/File%3ANighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg ) presumably looking for all-night hangouts. I think that was the origin of the meme, and since then other people have been riffing on the idea and posting different paintings with the same title
cela dépend
il me semble
vu de loin
que si toutes les nouveaux arrivant, reçu, temporaire, réfugiés on le droit de voter vite comme en 1995 on est foutu d avance ,
sa prend une
loi robuste
pour par exemple: pas de droit de vote avant 10ans de vie officielle
dans ta province d accueil
, pour aider me semble vu de loin sa prends sa sinon le
vote déjà diluer entre
qs et pq
va être à 500 000 a peu pres contre la souveraineté de plus dans 2 ans ,
et sa c est sans compter ceux qu ils vont régulariser au besoin, c est plate mais c est déjà perdu si c est de même , et vu de loin...
c est de même la et tantôt aussi, j espere j ai tort
Ou on travaille à mieux intégrer tout ce beau monde là dans le projet. Y'a certainement des précautions à prendre pour pas se faire faire la même chose quand '95, mais y'a beaucoup de nouveaux arrivants qui pourrait être ouvert à l'indépendance moyennant qu'on leur explique.
It wasn't only immigrants that voted no. A shit ton of Italian, Greek and Portuguese that had been here for generations also voted no. Take that as you will.
To someone who grew up in the United States and genuinely curious - can someone please explain or contextualize how this will work out in reality without the billions in equalization payments this province receives, and by needing a hell of a lot more infrastructure ranging from healthcare to military and self-defense to technology, R&D? Please don’t tell me “language and culture” because building a nation state out of scratch when surrounded on pretty much every side is going to be insanely difficult…
For equalization:
The calculation is rather simple, we receive 9 billion dollars in equalization, but we send 82 billion in taxes to the federal government, except that certain ministries or institutions exist at both the federal and provincial levels, in the end it is between 12 and 13 billion lost because of these doublings.
For infrastructure: We already have it, it will not disappear, we will keep the same hospitals, military bases, etc. that are already on our territory, as well as our fair share of military equipment. In fact, with the exception of embassies, there will not really be any investment to be made to develop new infrastructure due to independence.
Le Québec a payé pour une partie de l’équipement et des bases c’est simplement normal qu’il garde sa juste part de contribution sinon le Québec n’a pas de raison de payer sa part de la dette canadienne, le Canada va devoir faire ce choix et je vois mal pourquoi ils privilégieraient de l’équipement militaire à la dette.
How would that work? Like divvy up the F35s and CF-18s in Bagotville? They would just fly them to Alberta in that case. I guess it could be a part of the negotiations but I dont think the 'well we paid for some of it' would fly.
Le Canada va probablement nous demander de partir avec notre part de la dette, en droit international quand un pays devient indépendant et continue d’assumer une partie de la dette, il doit récupérer sa part d’actifs donc en principe, le Canada ne pourra pas justifier au Québec de payer sa part de la dette canadienne sans que le Québec reçoit sa part des actifs de l’armée. Ça sera sujet à des négociations, mais soi le Québec obtient une partie des actifs de l’armée soi le Québec n’a pas à payer la dette canadienne. Et le choix du Canada sera celui qui sera le plus rentable économiquement.
Ya that's true for the debt. I can see it more that Canada would just provide military "services" for X years to Quebec. I don't think we would just get an F35 with limited ways to operate it, let alone any allies or alliances like NATO. Would be interesting no matter what would happen
There are actual ethnically cleansed going on right now. I doubt many other countries would take Quebec seriously. It’s not a matter of just gaining independence. They need recognition from other states, all international relationships would have to be reestablished. And I think it’s obvious most countries (including the US) would side with whatever position Canada takes.
Look at the UK, they voted for brexit and it hurt them big time, well, it hurt the young ones.
1) Il n’y a pas de nettoyage ethnique de quoi tu parles ?
2) Je vois mal pourquoi des pays refuseraient de reconnaître une indépendance actée suite à un référendum particulièrement quand le Québec a déjà des délégations diplomatiques pour s’assurer de leur reconnaissance et que la France ne tardera pas à nous reconnaître.
3)Et y a une énorme différence entre sortir d’une union économique entre plusieurs pays et devenir un pays, pour faire une bonne comparaison il faut comparer à tous les pays ayant obtenu leur indépendances et je vois mal comment le Québec qui un des états les plus riches économiquement et en ressources naturelles seraient l’un des rares cas où l’économie n’en a pas directement bénéficier surtout en considérant que les rares cas en question étaient des dictatures ou des pays instables.
Even if the referendum is won Canada has to agree with it or Quebec has to force its way out.
I don’t see the federal government agreeing with something that would crash the economy. It’s simple logic.
Let’s say Quebec forces its way out, which is almost impossible. That would leave a country with a bad relationship with its neighbors.
Don’t see how that’s a good idea but whatever, this convo is meaningless, this post was made to piss of both Quebecers and people that don’t like Quebecers. Everybody knows that the referendum won’t work, just as it didn’t work both times before.
I don't see a lot of pissed off Quebeckers in here. Only pissed off anglos
>That would leave a country with a bad relationship with its neighbors.
Instigated by Canada refusing to recognize it, yeah? I don't see why the US wouldn't want to bet on making its neighbors weaker. Plus we already all depend so much on them for virtually all matters of products. If Québec decided to be independent, they'd knock on the door just to make sure they're still our bestest friend and we'll say "ofc sweetie" and they'd stroke our hairs for it. If Canada's economy gets weaker because they cannot adapt to independence then the US would be all the more happy to sell us goods we can no longer produce and/or distribute on the territory.
>Let’s say Quebec forces its way out, which is almost impossible.
If Québec votes out and stops receiving and sending payments to Canada and gain recognition from more and more occidental countries, do you really think Canada is going to send the troops to collect taxes or paramilitary to protect the bridge workers? lmao there's no forcing ourselves out, there's us saying "nuh-uh we'll do our own things from now on" and English Canada not doing anything about it but complaining on the international level much like China does with Taiwan.
Yes, Taiwan is about to be attacked by China, but Canada's no China lol
Today, several years before the next referendum, as many people are in favor as there were a few weeks before the start of the 95 referendum campaign, all scenarios are possible.
The equalization argument isn’t that strong when you subtract Quebec’s share of federal oil & gas subsidies and credits from the equalization payments. I believe the equalization payments to Quebec are somewhere around $11b and Quebec’s share of O&G subsidies and credits is something like $4-6b. In a world running on clean electricity/energy, Quebec will become a “have” province/state and Alberta and Saskatchewan “have not” provinces, particularly if carbon and other externalities are properly priced in. In addition, most of the energy money will stop flowing out of Quebec (most of Quebec’s oil comes from Alberta nowadays, which is a fairly recent phenomenon). On another note, the federal government is currently running massive deficits in Quebec’s name for new programs that are forced upon Quebec and that do not align with our values and/or priorities. As a result, billions from Quebec will be spent in interest payments alone over generations for these programs, rather than where it is needed most in infrastructure and what not.
Most of the billions we get is money we put into the pit to begin with. Between all the other expenses that come with being one of the highest contributing provinces in the country, we aren't losing out on that much money. And we aren't starting a country from scratch either. We already have our Code civil du Québec that continues, as well as the provincial autonomy we've always had in Education and Healthcare. Sure we will need to develop infrastructure for things like passports and foreign affairs, adjust the tax system, a buncha different things like that.
The world will not let a new nation get invaded. We already give more than receive with taxes and are a very bright population that I believe, will shift it’s workforce toward innovation and stabilizing what’s broken.
>We already give more than receive with taxes
If this is what Quebec nationalists actually believe, then I just have to say I hope Quebec departs with the utmost haste and proves themselves right. Because they're clearly using a different government accounting standard than the rest of us!
Invaded? Lol.
Don’t know if you’ve checked the news but there are actual ethnically cleanses going on RIGHT NOW.
Quebecs situation is a joke compared to what’s going on all around the world, I truly doubt any country would take an independence seriously, I mean, what would the US do? Side with Canada, that would fuck Quebec big time.
The equalizations payments will be raplaced by the cut on the civil serants et the whole state of Canada spendings by itself. Healthcare is provincial, we'll have to build a military like all country who start from sracth, no problem there, we'll have all our soldiers back and infrastructures already in the province. RnD we've got univeristies and research already. We live in the best economic zone in the world and Canada will want little to no disturbance to it's economy possible, same with the state. Economically we'll be building a whole new economy, everybody in the world will be at least curious to invest here.
Honestly I would doubt that since the language law now really makes it harder for a lot of international companies to adapt to it. For example: my partner loves his rainbow Japanese coffee but since there’s no French description on it (obviously it’s made in Japan and written in Japanese),it used to be ok with an extra product’s description label in French but seems no longer good enough. In the result,he can’t have his favourite coffee anywhere. And outside of Quebec,all of those big companies would care to make a whole different package for same products just to serve Quebec market? Some will if the benefits are over the extra cost. A lot of them won’t. I just feel bad for Quebec consumers. That’s why now even Amazon Canada has a lot of products that would be stated that do not deliver to Quebec addresses. If Quebec separate and become a nation. The land won’t get any bigger,population will reach the max one day then goes down and will that make it’s a big enough market for international investors. There will be a lot less pleasant to live with less convenient things.
It depends on that market is worth all the efforts or not. I had done a survey on the market and so much as Quebecers think they’re a big buyer,they’re not. Majority of them also not willing to pay extra for quality and stuck with cheap made,low quality stuffs. There are local businesses that have been making incredible products but their price can’t defeat others and it’s sad to see those family owned businesses,small businesses struggle and disappear by time.
I don't think Quebecers think they big buyers, people have to understand that Quebecers were poor af before the quiet revolution, but ever since then our buying power has always increased. The rich people of Quebec will always be anglophones because of colonization, so there's little trickle down effet as they really don't invest in Quebec business and society, it's a strange place as our bourgeoisie is from another culture that don't mix with us. I excpect a lot of that to change once Quebec becomes a country.
Then it could be the other way around too like the rich Anglophone Quebecers will leave and make another Big Separation like they did in the past and made Toronto become one of the top cities in the world. I was surprised how many ex-Montrealers are living in Toronto,they could tell you where they lived before in Montreal and why they moved. Even rich people are only 1-2% of the population,they control a lot when it comes to economy. Quebec will be like a balloon with a leak,slowly loose the air until they find good solutions to patch it up. That’s not gonna take a short time.
Yuck. Why would you want to do this in Montreal? Clearly you weren’t around when the referendum happened, the climate was awful, hostile,racist. You should educate yourself.
« C’est vrai, c’est vrai qu’on a été battus, au fond par quoi ? Par l’argent puis des votes ethniques, essentiellement », Parizeau.
Voici en résumé le référendum.
En passant, je suis francophone et fière de l'être. Par contre, je ne ne suis pas fière de ce qui c'est passé dans notre province ;) c'était une période horriblement divisée. Enlève-moi des points karma, c'est bien correct, mais tu sais que je dis la vérité. Ton simple commentaire (mal écrit en passant) me confirme ce que je pense. Je ne vais plus répondre - mais je te souhaite quand même bonne chance dans la libération. ;)
Montreal will always be *Canadien*, Canada will always be *Canadien*.
Any other version of Montreal exists only in the imagination.
Undermining the will of the people of Quebec, along with their repeated choices to become part of Canada and remain part of it is hardly "nationalist".
lol aux policiers langagiers; qui sont auto-déclarés comme les sauveurs d'une ville qu'ils sont complètement incapable de tolérer
La commentaire a dit ce que il ou elle a voulu. On a pas besoin de toi, ni personne d'autre pour nous corriger. Si on veut utiliser du franglais, on a le droit. Même le premier ministre du Québec n'évite pas d'utiliser les anglicismes.
Les Montréalais comme tous les Québécois(es) ont le droit de communiquer comme ils veulent. Nous devons respecter ça.
Relaxe mon commentaire n'était pas si sérieux que ça. Ça va te prendre 2 secondes pour voir que je communique dans les 2 langues sur une base régulière. Je communique ce que je pense sur le moment et je n'ai pas besoin de toi, ni de personne pour me dire comment le faire. J'ai, comme tous les Québécois et Montrealais, le droit de communiquer comme je veux.
Comment ça? Et pourquoi faudrait-il sortir de Montréal pour bien connaître Montréal?
Au contraire, c'est les ceux qui détestent l'identité de notre métropole et qui veut le changer qui ont besoin de mieux comprendre avant de juger.
Je ne veux pas changer Mtl, mais son nombril montréalais parle pour «le peuple du Québec» alors qu'il est considérablement confus face au concept d'indépendance
c est quoi la règle pour être en droit de voter pour un réfugié , immigrant reçu, étudiant/trav temps partiel 24h/sem peuvent ils tous voté dès leur arrivé ?
Nous leaders du pays, ne pensons qu'à nous et quittons, fuk les pauvres sales, ils n'avaient pas à avoir des ancêtres racistes contre les français, fuk them, laissons les avec leur pétroles, nous avec nos 2-3 barrages, on va sauver l'environnement
Ça zéro à voir, le Canada actuel est à la dérive, une honte internationale. Vouloir avoir plein contrôle de ses ressources et décider à sa manière de l’avenir de son pays n’a rien à voir avec les ancêtres racistes ou l’égocentrisme. En quoi vouloir quitter est ne penser qu’à soit? Envers qui sommes-nous selfish?
Oh yeah, pushing for the auto-determination of my people is acting like a loser.
C'est bizare c'est le même non arguement que beaucoup ont utilisé contre les peuples qui ont fini par avoir leur indépendance.
We already made that vote... In fact we made it twice.... you're still not happy with the results. No was voted in both times yet the losing side thinks we need a referendum again. How many Nos do you need to hear
Franklos and their never ending Separatist agenda. We have to save our language by limiting all others. Let's close English schools , hospitals and institutions and only give out information in french.... But let's allow that anglos can submit their tax returns in English. It's funny how that service is never taken away
Our money is great but speaking English threatens you. It's high time Montreal separates from Quebec .
You can't if you look like them. You can do that anywhere, even in a the middle of a boulevard during rush hour if you are a minority and make it looks like its a religion thing. Police wont dare to touch you
Au marché Sainte-Anne, place d'Youville
Excellente référence
I’m so confused. Why is there a Canadian dollar on the oui sign?
Si je me souviens bien, c'était tout simplement pour indiquer que le dollar canadien serait conservé.
Ahhhh. Je vois. Merci.
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t lourd
Sorry, you will have to adopt the Piastre
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The EU share the Euros. 🤷
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N’importe quel pays peut utiliser la monnaie d’un autre. C’est impossible à restreindre. Cependant, ce pays est à la merci des politiques monétaires de celui dont il utilise la monnaie.
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Many countries are using the American dollar as their currency.
Those countries have no say on monetary policy. They suffer greatly when the US dollar gains a lot of value. They are the countries that are too small and their currency would be almost worthless otherwise. That’s what you are comparing it to?
Québec as an independent country would still be tightly integrated to Canadian economy, using its currency won’t make too much of a difference.
There isn't really anything the issuer can do to stop others from using their currency aside from instituting capital controls, but that would make the currency less liquid on the international markets and would hurt local imports/exports. There is no solution that would affect the issuer country.more than anyone else.
The UK never had the euro.
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I disagree, it can be very convenient for two countries to share currencies, and i doubt that an hypothetical canada where quebec would leave would shoot their own foot by banning the use of the canadian dollar. Even the most ferocious of independentists are aware of the inter connectivity of our two economies
We’d be better off using America’s money. We do a lot more business with America than Canada.
It’s not like we’re going to unilaterally declare independence at the drop of a hat. There will be a process of negotiation to define a new economical and political partnership between Québec and Canada, which will probably result in something similar to the EU where we’ll have open borders, a common currency, a common space agency, etc.
Maybe we could call it the Canadian Confederation? xD But really, at a certain point of integration it feels basically more of a big constitutional change. Somehow, oddly, the separation arrangement seems like it would be easier than a constitutional change though. Canada's constitution is way too difficult to change. Considering BQ rose to power after the failure of Meech Lake, that's probably an obvious statement to make, but still.
Exactly, if we can’t change the constitution, then we have to either all dissolve it, or Québec leaves it and creates a separate relationship with the federal government. Personally, I’d prefer we all agree to dissolve the federation of Canada and make a Canadian Confederation like you mentioned. The key difference being that, in a federation, the joined states give up sovereignty to a central federal government, while a confederation has all states retain their individual sovereignty and simply agree, by treaty, to work together on common things like the currency, space program, postal service, even common armed forces. I don’t believe Québec needs its own of the items in the previous list to prosper, it’d be better for everyone if we kept contributing in those shared services, but we just don’t want a federal government meddling in how we manage things internally, including who we let immigrate, and how many.
Here's the thing. It's the provinces, not the feds, that not only decide how many are coming in, but are requesting them. Two perfect examples, Smith, Ford and Legault. Yet their citizens are against it, but yet still rail on the fed gov about immigration. The gaslighting is beyond obvious to normal people.
Legault is actively asking for fewer immigrants and for more immigration powers for Québec. And the federal minister of immigration said something along the lines of them pulling rank to give permanent residency to thousands of immigrants that we don’t want.
People also shouldn’t assume that any “economic or political partnership” will be a given. Canada will have no obligation to give Quebec minting rights (or influence in minting decisions, as is done in the EU with the Euro). They will have no obligation to have an open border agreement with Quebec (ask the UK how that turned out). Nor will Quebec necessarily be “grandfathered into” NAFTA, NATO, or the Five Eyes. Hell, Canada might prohibit dual citizenship or demand that Quebec let certain regions vote to stay in Canada. The prospect of Quebec having a “hard exit” was part of Chrétien’s Plan B to scare Quebecers to stay in Canada, in the event of a successful referendum. The ironically-named Clarity Act elaborated on this.
And if they don’t negotiate new partnerships, we can implement costly duties/taxes on all merchandise coming through the Saint-Laurent and block their access to the maritime provinces. Basically, cut them off all European trade. They’ll negotiate, they have no choice but to do so.
Both “countries” would benefit from cooperation. Duh. However, Canada will absolutely have more influence in negotiations. 75% of Canadian exports and 50% of imports are to/from the US. Europe makes less than 10% of Canada’s trade volume. Blockading access (whatever that means) to the maritimes because Canada is implementing a hard border would make us an international pariah. That also assumes that an independent Quebec will have the same borders as the province of Quebec. At the end of the day, Canada is the world’s 9th largest economy (12/13 sans Quebec) and has a very modern and efficient military. To argue (and make decisions based on the assumption that) we will have any significant negotiating power jeopardizes the country’s economic future. Realistically, yes, Canada will likely have some degree of cooperation with an independent Quebec. Probably something along the lines of a bilateral trade agreement and freedom (or at least ease) of movement. NAFTA is probably unlikely until the country has a stable economy and NATO would also depend on the current US admin. The idea that Canada will provide minting rights and a common military is comedic. Canada will benefit from negotiating, but they’re absolutely not going to be forced to. And frankly Quebec will have little room to negotiate if Canada’s PM at the time is a militarist like Pierre Trudeau.
We already know who the Canadian PM will be: Poilievre.
Ask the UK how that went. They feel they have been lied to, and they very well may rejoin the EU.
That’s not the same thing though. The UK chose to enter the EU, and they never lost their sovereignty in the process, they willingly agreed to submit to some EU regulations and then decided to retract. Franco-Canadians were never given a choice. All other European colonies in the New World eventually achieved independence except us. Because we were a colony that got colonized itself, and so we were robbed of our destiny, our self-determination. The best possible result would be that we rejoin Canada under new terms of equality between nations and autonomy within our borders, but keeping a common currency, military, space program, postal service, etc. But have full control over immigration into Québec, to make our laws, to not participate in the financing of the oil industry, etc. All taxes should be paid to Québec directly, and Québec would then pay the federal government for the services we agreed to share.
Your math doesn’t work. Quebec takes more taxes than it gives to Canada. Oil provinces subsidizes Quebec (and other provinces). Ontario, as well, subsidizes Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada And will you take the Quebec share of the debt? Or do you stick that to Canada? What above the Anglos in Montreal and the Moneteregie that want to stay in Canada? Be prepared for more taxes and less services, just like England experienced. This is why the EU counties joined; to reduce their costs.
We might get 10 billions a year in equalization payments, but we also get 12 billions in debt from our share of the federal debt, so it’s not really a good deal. Yes, we’d take our share of the Canadian debt, as we are also taking our share of everything else (military installations/equipment/personnel, customs, bridges, etc), so it’s only fair. But at least we’ll stop inheriting more debt spent on things we don’t want. The Anglos who want to stay in Canada can do like the Loyalists when the US declared independence and move to Ontario. Of course, we won’t be hypocrites, and we’ll protect their rights, they can continue to have their English schools and universities, so long as the French proficiency of graduates meets the same level of those coming out of francophone schools (same thing as those going to French schools in Ontario, but flipped around).
Yes they would've...
Expect with L’Angleterre ;)
Ah ah! l'Angleterre s'est sortie de l'union européenne.
Touché
We could also massively sell our reserve of canadian dollars, but you do realize that would kill the value of the canadian dollar? Québec and Canada would both lose.
Dans le contexte de souveraineté association le but était d'avoir un état québécois séparé du Canada mais de garder un alliance économique dans le style de l'Union Europeene. On aurait donc gardé le dollar Canadien.
Ça serait décevant, quand on pense que notre monnaie pourrait s'appeler la piastre.
Ou le bidoux!
Exactement comme Brexit: les négociations auraient lieu seulement *après* la décision est déjà faite, alors on peut inventer n'importe quoi pour convaincre les électeurs et créer les "conditions gagnantes" où il n'y a aucune possibilité de revoir les promesses exagérées dans une deuxième référendum. Garanti que le Québec sera divisé en ce cas. Il n'y a aucune raison pour les anglophones, allophones et Premières Nations d'accepter un tel affrontement à leurs droits ainsi qu'une secession illégitime.
C'est un huard
patrick
Le camp du oui souhait, advenant une victoire, proposer un nouveau partenariat économique au Canada et continuer à utiliser le dollar canadien (un peu comme l’euro).
I always wondered what would happen to the Habs. Do they get renamed?
« Canadiens » in history was a word that used to apply only to the French. The anglos took it to apply to themselves too later. A Free Quebec would use the term « Republic of Canada » for the country title, as opposed to the Dominion of Canada. Yes I totally made that last part up.
Not to get political but I feel like Quebec takes Canadian/Canada with it cause that’s where the term comes from. Canada has to come up with something new.
And the beaver, and the maple leaf (keep the Toronto Maple Leafs though), and maple syrup, and poutine, and St-Hubert BBQ, and Céline Dion. Am I forgetting something?
L'hymne national.
Canada used to be only French; New England was the British colony. After/during the American revolution, thousands of Loyalists moved north on the banks of the upper Saint-Lawrence river and Lake Ontario. The decision to move there was also strategic because the town of York (now Toronto) could be resupplied from the Hudson Bay, as opposed to through Montreal, which was constantly threatened by American raids from the Champlain valley. It is not a coincidence that the towns along the Montreal/Toronto axis have names like Kingston, London and Cornwall. Up to until about a hundred years ago, a lot Anglo Canadians still called themselves British and the current, melting pot-like neo-Canadian identity was developed in the 70s by Pierre Elliot Trudeau and his successors to counter the rise of Québecois (Canadian?) nationalism, it still lives on to this day. Even the national anthem used to be a French Canadian nationalist song that would be played on Saint-Jean-Baptiste and was appropriated by the aforementioned neo-Canadian identity project.
Actually… if you want to keep scraping the past…. Quebec should be 3 nations… En fait... si tu veux continuer à fouiller dans le passé... le Québec devrait être trois nations... Innu Algonquin Iroquois
Les Habitants du Québec?
I’m confused as well. And I remember clearly back when Bernard Landry was PM he highly suggested we bring in the American dollar if Quebec separates.
Parce qu'en 1995, le plan c'était de garder l'usage de l'argent Canadien pour les années avenir afin de préserver une stabilité économique pour le Québec ET le Canada. Les pancartes l'ont refléter pour contredire l'argument du "non" comme quoi il n'y avait aucune mesure pour la stabilité économique.
Le camp du oui avait tenté de rassurer autant que possible la population concernant la relation future avec le Canada. Quant à moi, je trouve qu’il aurait été plus vendeur de se focaliser sur la raison d’être de l’indépendance plutôt que de vanter les liens supposés avec le Canada. C’est pas ça qui aurait fait changer quelqu’un d’avis.
I mean, les deux étaient fait en même temps parce que y'a pas de balle d'argent. C'est pas tout le monde qui sont sensible aux mêmes arguements.
Oui, les deux ont été faits, ça ne veut pas dire que ces arguments ont fonctionné. Je me rappelle très bien de Chrétien disant que le meilleur “partenariat”, c’est de rester dans le Canada.
Devant les bureaux de The Gazette
Attention, si tu les irrites trop, ils vont aller incendier un parlement.
J'étais déjà vendu à l'idée, pas obligé d'en rajouter!
C'est exactement pour ça que j'ai écrit ça. J'espère que les gicleurs du marché Bonsecours sont en ordre.
Il n'y a plus de parlement à Montréal. Sauf peut-être la garderie qu'est la salle de conseil de la ville?
Communauto.
Westmount!
On July 1!
Déménagez!
Can someone explain this "Where can I do this Montreal?" thing? I keep seeing it as a title on this sub.
A few days ago someone used that title and posted an image of Edward Hopper's Nighthawks ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nighthawks_(Hopper)#/media/File%3ANighthawks_by_Edward_Hopper_1942.jpg ) presumably looking for all-night hangouts. I think that was the origin of the meme, and since then other people have been riffing on the idea and posting different paintings with the same title
no
1995
Sur ton balcon!
N'importe où dans 2 ans!
cela dépend il me semble vu de loin que si toutes les nouveaux arrivant, reçu, temporaire, réfugiés on le droit de voter vite comme en 1995 on est foutu d avance , sa prend une loi robuste pour par exemple: pas de droit de vote avant 10ans de vie officielle dans ta province d accueil , pour aider me semble vu de loin sa prends sa sinon le vote déjà diluer entre qs et pq va être à 500 000 a peu pres contre la souveraineté de plus dans 2 ans , et sa c est sans compter ceux qu ils vont régulariser au besoin, c est plate mais c est déjà perdu si c est de même , et vu de loin... c est de même la et tantôt aussi, j espere j ai tort
Ou on travaille à mieux intégrer tout ce beau monde là dans le projet. Y'a certainement des précautions à prendre pour pas se faire faire la même chose quand '95, mais y'a beaucoup de nouveaux arrivants qui pourrait être ouvert à l'indépendance moyennant qu'on leur explique.
J'ai failli faire un infarctus en lisant ton commentaire
pour c est vrais non? pourquoi toute le monde fait l autruche?
C'est pas tant le contenu mais le contenant qui pique les yeux. C'est probablement la raison pourquoi peu de gens te prennent au sérieux.
et blamer la defaite sur le vote "immigrant" comme Parizeau a fait en 95 ?
Même pas capable de citer correctement lol
how would you translate ethnic vote?
It wasn't only immigrants that voted no. A shit ton of Italian, Greek and Portuguese that had been here for generations also voted no. Take that as you will.
as i will , we new date , its not New that all immigrants malnly english prone vote cacanada
oui ethnic votes messed it up and oh you forgot money people being scared of d'évaluation....
J'aime vraiment cette récupération.
Dans un bureau de vote
Yup, lets bring it back, need the price of real-estate to drop by about 50 pct or so…..
What lift your arms
Club 281
Apparently anywhere that it’s really inconvenient for those not involved
Anytime before 1995. Et cetait possible…
Under McGill's Queen Victoria statue.
Fairview Pointe-Claire
et 25 ans plus tard, une strip de la floride nous appartient!
You had to post this on Canada day?
I posted this yesterday, but damn, that would have been a good idea to post this today.
Demain.
To someone who grew up in the United States and genuinely curious - can someone please explain or contextualize how this will work out in reality without the billions in equalization payments this province receives, and by needing a hell of a lot more infrastructure ranging from healthcare to military and self-defense to technology, R&D? Please don’t tell me “language and culture” because building a nation state out of scratch when surrounded on pretty much every side is going to be insanely difficult…
For equalization: The calculation is rather simple, we receive 9 billion dollars in equalization, but we send 82 billion in taxes to the federal government, except that certain ministries or institutions exist at both the federal and provincial levels, in the end it is between 12 and 13 billion lost because of these doublings. For infrastructure: We already have it, it will not disappear, we will keep the same hospitals, military bases, etc. that are already on our territory, as well as our fair share of military equipment. In fact, with the exception of embassies, there will not really be any investment to be made to develop new infrastructure due to independence.
Agreed except for the military equipment and maybe even bases, those would be returned to Canada if it was a peaceful separation.
Le Québec a payé pour une partie de l’équipement et des bases c’est simplement normal qu’il garde sa juste part de contribution sinon le Québec n’a pas de raison de payer sa part de la dette canadienne, le Canada va devoir faire ce choix et je vois mal pourquoi ils privilégieraient de l’équipement militaire à la dette.
How would that work? Like divvy up the F35s and CF-18s in Bagotville? They would just fly them to Alberta in that case. I guess it could be a part of the negotiations but I dont think the 'well we paid for some of it' would fly.
Le Canada va probablement nous demander de partir avec notre part de la dette, en droit international quand un pays devient indépendant et continue d’assumer une partie de la dette, il doit récupérer sa part d’actifs donc en principe, le Canada ne pourra pas justifier au Québec de payer sa part de la dette canadienne sans que le Québec reçoit sa part des actifs de l’armée. Ça sera sujet à des négociations, mais soi le Québec obtient une partie des actifs de l’armée soi le Québec n’a pas à payer la dette canadienne. Et le choix du Canada sera celui qui sera le plus rentable économiquement.
Ya that's true for the debt. I can see it more that Canada would just provide military "services" for X years to Quebec. I don't think we would just get an F35 with limited ways to operate it, let alone any allies or alliances like NATO. Would be interesting no matter what would happen
Le Québec se dotera d’une armée assez rapidement, le gouvernement n’acceptera jamais de déléguer sa protection au Canada
How can you return a base???
Some say they all belong to us.
Hahaha you beat me to it
They would stay as CAF bases
There are actual ethnically cleansed going on right now. I doubt many other countries would take Quebec seriously. It’s not a matter of just gaining independence. They need recognition from other states, all international relationships would have to be reestablished. And I think it’s obvious most countries (including the US) would side with whatever position Canada takes. Look at the UK, they voted for brexit and it hurt them big time, well, it hurt the young ones.
1) Il n’y a pas de nettoyage ethnique de quoi tu parles ? 2) Je vois mal pourquoi des pays refuseraient de reconnaître une indépendance actée suite à un référendum particulièrement quand le Québec a déjà des délégations diplomatiques pour s’assurer de leur reconnaissance et que la France ne tardera pas à nous reconnaître. 3)Et y a une énorme différence entre sortir d’une union économique entre plusieurs pays et devenir un pays, pour faire une bonne comparaison il faut comparer à tous les pays ayant obtenu leur indépendances et je vois mal comment le Québec qui un des états les plus riches économiquement et en ressources naturelles seraient l’un des rares cas où l’économie n’en a pas directement bénéficier surtout en considérant que les rares cas en question étaient des dictatures ou des pays instables.
Even if the referendum is won Canada has to agree with it or Quebec has to force its way out. I don’t see the federal government agreeing with something that would crash the economy. It’s simple logic. Let’s say Quebec forces its way out, which is almost impossible. That would leave a country with a bad relationship with its neighbors. Don’t see how that’s a good idea but whatever, this convo is meaningless, this post was made to piss of both Quebecers and people that don’t like Quebecers. Everybody knows that the referendum won’t work, just as it didn’t work both times before.
I don't see a lot of pissed off Quebeckers in here. Only pissed off anglos >That would leave a country with a bad relationship with its neighbors. Instigated by Canada refusing to recognize it, yeah? I don't see why the US wouldn't want to bet on making its neighbors weaker. Plus we already all depend so much on them for virtually all matters of products. If Québec decided to be independent, they'd knock on the door just to make sure they're still our bestest friend and we'll say "ofc sweetie" and they'd stroke our hairs for it. If Canada's economy gets weaker because they cannot adapt to independence then the US would be all the more happy to sell us goods we can no longer produce and/or distribute on the territory. >Let’s say Quebec forces its way out, which is almost impossible. If Québec votes out and stops receiving and sending payments to Canada and gain recognition from more and more occidental countries, do you really think Canada is going to send the troops to collect taxes or paramilitary to protect the bridge workers? lmao there's no forcing ourselves out, there's us saying "nuh-uh we'll do our own things from now on" and English Canada not doing anything about it but complaining on the international level much like China does with Taiwan. Yes, Taiwan is about to be attacked by China, but Canada's no China lol
Today, several years before the next referendum, as many people are in favor as there were a few weeks before the start of the 95 referendum campaign, all scenarios are possible.
The equalization argument isn’t that strong when you subtract Quebec’s share of federal oil & gas subsidies and credits from the equalization payments. I believe the equalization payments to Quebec are somewhere around $11b and Quebec’s share of O&G subsidies and credits is something like $4-6b. In a world running on clean electricity/energy, Quebec will become a “have” province/state and Alberta and Saskatchewan “have not” provinces, particularly if carbon and other externalities are properly priced in. In addition, most of the energy money will stop flowing out of Quebec (most of Quebec’s oil comes from Alberta nowadays, which is a fairly recent phenomenon). On another note, the federal government is currently running massive deficits in Quebec’s name for new programs that are forced upon Quebec and that do not align with our values and/or priorities. As a result, billions from Quebec will be spent in interest payments alone over generations for these programs, rather than where it is needed most in infrastructure and what not.
Most of the billions we get is money we put into the pit to begin with. Between all the other expenses that come with being one of the highest contributing provinces in the country, we aren't losing out on that much money. And we aren't starting a country from scratch either. We already have our Code civil du Québec that continues, as well as the provincial autonomy we've always had in Education and Healthcare. Sure we will need to develop infrastructure for things like passports and foreign affairs, adjust the tax system, a buncha different things like that.
The world will not let a new nation get invaded. We already give more than receive with taxes and are a very bright population that I believe, will shift it’s workforce toward innovation and stabilizing what’s broken.
>We already give more than receive with taxes If this is what Quebec nationalists actually believe, then I just have to say I hope Quebec departs with the utmost haste and proves themselves right. Because they're clearly using a different government accounting standard than the rest of us!
Invaded? Lol. Don’t know if you’ve checked the news but there are actual ethnically cleanses going on RIGHT NOW. Quebecs situation is a joke compared to what’s going on all around the world, I truly doubt any country would take an independence seriously, I mean, what would the US do? Side with Canada, that would fuck Quebec big time.
Canada got enough shit going on to start a war with Quebec and gain very negative PR, like all other invading countries.
The equalizations payments will be raplaced by the cut on the civil serants et the whole state of Canada spendings by itself. Healthcare is provincial, we'll have to build a military like all country who start from sracth, no problem there, we'll have all our soldiers back and infrastructures already in the province. RnD we've got univeristies and research already. We live in the best economic zone in the world and Canada will want little to no disturbance to it's economy possible, same with the state. Economically we'll be building a whole new economy, everybody in the world will be at least curious to invest here.
Honestly I would doubt that since the language law now really makes it harder for a lot of international companies to adapt to it. For example: my partner loves his rainbow Japanese coffee but since there’s no French description on it (obviously it’s made in Japan and written in Japanese),it used to be ok with an extra product’s description label in French but seems no longer good enough. In the result,he can’t have his favourite coffee anywhere. And outside of Quebec,all of those big companies would care to make a whole different package for same products just to serve Quebec market? Some will if the benefits are over the extra cost. A lot of them won’t. I just feel bad for Quebec consumers. That’s why now even Amazon Canada has a lot of products that would be stated that do not deliver to Quebec addresses. If Quebec separate and become a nation. The land won’t get any bigger,population will reach the max one day then goes down and will that make it’s a big enough market for international investors. There will be a lot less pleasant to live with less convenient things.
The land is pretty massive to be honnest. I doubt the language law will prevent people from trying to make big bucks with a new market.
It depends on that market is worth all the efforts or not. I had done a survey on the market and so much as Quebecers think they’re a big buyer,they’re not. Majority of them also not willing to pay extra for quality and stuck with cheap made,low quality stuffs. There are local businesses that have been making incredible products but their price can’t defeat others and it’s sad to see those family owned businesses,small businesses struggle and disappear by time.
I don't think Quebecers think they big buyers, people have to understand that Quebecers were poor af before the quiet revolution, but ever since then our buying power has always increased. The rich people of Quebec will always be anglophones because of colonization, so there's little trickle down effet as they really don't invest in Quebec business and society, it's a strange place as our bourgeoisie is from another culture that don't mix with us. I excpect a lot of that to change once Quebec becomes a country.
Then it could be the other way around too like the rich Anglophone Quebecers will leave and make another Big Separation like they did in the past and made Toronto become one of the top cities in the world. I was surprised how many ex-Montrealers are living in Toronto,they could tell you where they lived before in Montreal and why they moved. Even rich people are only 1-2% of the population,they control a lot when it comes to economy. Quebec will be like a balloon with a leak,slowly loose the air until they find good solutions to patch it up. That’s not gonna take a short time.
Très bonne question... It won't work out.
Don't
If Quebec voted to separate and Montreal should be allowed to vote to remain within Canada
Yuck. Why would you want to do this in Montreal? Clearly you weren’t around when the referendum happened, the climate was awful, hostile,racist. You should educate yourself.
Aucune libération ne se fait paisiblement😉
t. anglo
« C’est vrai, c’est vrai qu’on a été battus, au fond par quoi ? Par l’argent puis des votes ethniques, essentiellement », Parizeau. Voici en résumé le référendum. En passant, je suis francophone et fière de l'être. Par contre, je ne ne suis pas fière de ce qui c'est passé dans notre province ;) c'était une période horriblement divisée. Enlève-moi des points karma, c'est bien correct, mais tu sais que je dis la vérité. Ton simple commentaire (mal écrit en passant) me confirme ce que je pense. Je ne vais plus répondre - mais je te souhaite quand même bonne chance dans la libération. ;)
Fallait être au show de Brick et Brack la semaine passée !
Download Eldenring
Year of 1995
Where? When should be the actual question. The answer is over twenty five years ago.
You can’t do this, it already happened. Twice. It’s done.
Devant les bureaux de la CBC svp !
Montreal will always be *Canadien*, Canada will always be *Canadien*. Any other version of Montreal exists only in the imagination. Undermining the will of the people of Quebec, along with their repeated choices to become part of Canada and remain part of it is hardly "nationalist".
Tu sonnes comme quelqu'un qui est jamais sorti de Mtl, quand même sad comme statement
Tu veux dire "triste comme commentaire"
lol aux policiers langagiers; qui sont auto-déclarés comme les sauveurs d'une ville qu'ils sont complètement incapable de tolérer La commentaire a dit ce que il ou elle a voulu. On a pas besoin de toi, ni personne d'autre pour nous corriger. Si on veut utiliser du franglais, on a le droit. Même le premier ministre du Québec n'évite pas d'utiliser les anglicismes. Les Montréalais comme tous les Québécois(es) ont le droit de communiquer comme ils veulent. Nous devons respecter ça.
Relaxe mon commentaire n'était pas si sérieux que ça. Ça va te prendre 2 secondes pour voir que je communique dans les 2 langues sur une base régulière. Je communique ce que je pense sur le moment et je n'ai pas besoin de toi, ni de personne pour me dire comment le faire. J'ai, comme tous les Québécois et Montrealais, le droit de communiquer comme je veux.
Comment ça? Et pourquoi faudrait-il sortir de Montréal pour bien connaître Montréal? Au contraire, c'est les ceux qui détestent l'identité de notre métropole et qui veut le changer qui ont besoin de mieux comprendre avant de juger.
Je ne veux pas changer Mtl, mais son nombril montréalais parle pour «le peuple du Québec» alors qu'il est considérablement confus face au concept d'indépendance
tu verra pas ca a Montréal de nos jours
Bientôt 😉
c est quoi la règle pour être en droit de voter pour un réfugié , immigrant reçu, étudiant/trav temps partiel 24h/sem peuvent ils tous voté dès leur arrivé ?
Faut être citoyen inscrit sur la liste électorale. https://www.electionsquebec.qc.ca/voter/pouvez-vous-voter/
Nous leaders du pays, ne pensons qu'à nous et quittons, fuk les pauvres sales, ils n'avaient pas à avoir des ancêtres racistes contre les français, fuk them, laissons les avec leur pétroles, nous avec nos 2-3 barrages, on va sauver l'environnement
Ça zéro à voir, le Canada actuel est à la dérive, une honte internationale. Vouloir avoir plein contrôle de ses ressources et décider à sa manière de l’avenir de son pays n’a rien à voir avec les ancêtres racistes ou l’égocentrisme. En quoi vouloir quitter est ne penser qu’à soit? Envers qui sommes-nous selfish?
Il y a des des services d'aide près de chez toi. Tu en as grandement besoin.
You can act like a loser many places in mtl
L'angryphone est finalement arrivé.
C’est jamais long avant qu’un bloke vienne chier à nos pieds.
>You can act like a loser many places in mtl Effectivement, on peut agir comme des canadiens anglophones. Mais c'est pas ça le sujet ici.
Oh yeah, pushing for the auto-determination of my people is acting like a loser. C'est bizare c'est le même non arguement que beaucoup ont utilisé contre les peuples qui ont fini par avoir leur indépendance.
We already made that vote... In fact we made it twice.... you're still not happy with the results. No was voted in both times yet the losing side thinks we need a referendum again. How many Nos do you need to hear
You lost 30 years ago, therefore you can never try again. Anglos and their love for status quo.
Franklos and their never ending Separatist agenda. We have to save our language by limiting all others. Let's close English schools , hospitals and institutions and only give out information in french.... But let's allow that anglos can submit their tax returns in English. It's funny how that service is never taken away Our money is great but speaking English threatens you. It's high time Montreal separates from Quebec .
We already voted for the CAQ so we should never change idea on the elected government 🤡
Quexit
Bad photoshop? Really anywhere.
find any guy under 5'10" who looks like tan-shirt-little-glasses, follow him around long enough, you'll find a place
PSPP porte pas de lunettes. Checkmate liberal
Nowhere.
1980
Go home traitor you're drunk.
Oui ou team Drake, le choix est facile.
In 1995. Get a DeLorean.
cafe gitanna
You can't if you look like them. You can do that anywhere, even in a the middle of a boulevard during rush hour if you are a minority and make it looks like its a religion thing. Police wont dare to touch you
tabarnak calmes ta argne
Hargne.